It looks as though Trump won’t press ahead with a Supreme Court nominee this side of the election –
Options
It looks as though Trump won’t press ahead with a Supreme Court nominee this side of the election – politicalbetting.com
The White House has confirmed that there is not enough time on the Senate calendar to confirm Trump’s Supreme Court nominee.https://t.co/A4KdukIghW via @politicususa
0
Comments
-
Perhaps dangling the promise of a SCOTUS nominee after election is seen as a way to keep the base onside.
Just as Boris left his Brexit deal hanging over an election.4 -
The base will be desperate to reelect him now, but they were desperate anyway. So I think this is good news for all sensible people.0
-
Perhaps Trump would just nominate his candidate so that he has sufficient "red meat" for his supporters without going through the Senate confirmation hearings?0
-
Why? Let them just imagine it, for the moment. The risk is that announcing a new justice would become a campaign issue in itself, and not necessarily one fought on Trump's own turf.NickyBreakspear said:Perhaps Trump would just nominate his candidate so that he has sufficient "red meat" for his supporters without going through the Senate confirmation hearings?
0 -
The danger is that a lame duck Congress and Trump has the whole of November and December to throw a spanner in the works by confirming a new Justice even if they lose the election. Which is remarkable.1
-
“Get Justice Done!”Pro_Rata said:Perhaps dangling the promise of a SCOTUS nominee after election is seen as a way to keep the base onside.
Just as Boris left his Brexit deal hanging over an election.1 -
@ydoethur
From last thread - tool to compare journey fuel cost EV vs ICE (Enables you to put in electricity and petrol/diesel costs. Charging overnight can be REALLY cheap on some suppliers)
https://www.zap-map.com/tools/journey-cost-calculator/
Also need to bear in mind maintenance
https://insideevs.com/news/317307/ev-vs-ice-maintenance-the-first-100000-miles/
Total cost of ownership if buying from new is worth comparing.0 -
0
-
Wouldn't it be harder to get a Conservative nominee passed after the election even if Trump did win as the Senate numbers will be harder for them ?
We might see a split between what Trump thinks is best for Trump and what the Republican party thinks is best for the country.0 -
Thank you, I will have a play with it.logical_song said:@ydoethur
From last thread - tool to compare journey fuel cost EV vs ICE (Enables you to put in electricity and petrol/diesel costs. Charging overnight can be REALLY cheap on some suppliers)
https://www.zap-map.com/tools/journey-cost-calculator/
Also need to bear in mind maintenance
https://insideevs.com/news/317307/ev-vs-ice-maintenance-the-first-100000-miles/
Total cost of ownership if buying from new is worth comparing.
But I haven't yet seen anything that alters my view that we are still a long way from having mass electric cars. Certainly unless there are dramatic improvements in the next six months (that being about the time I will need to replace my car) I don't think I will be going for one given how much and where I drive.0 -
Kelly and another senator are on “special elections” and thus take their seats early. Could be enough if Romney etc vote against.Philip_Thompson said:The danger is that a lame duck Congress and Trump has the whole of November and December to throw a spanner in the works by confirming a new Justice even if they lose the election. Which is remarkable.
0 -
Hugely surprising to me. Will need to see the exact question wording.Richard_Nabavi said:On topic: A surprising poll finding:
https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/13073061144769208330 -
4422 Covid cases and 27 deaths.0
-
I wondered why #COVIDIOTS was trending......williamglenn said:
0 -
-
I see the US population-adjusted death rate has just overtaken ours0
-
I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=203 -
The change since 2016 is perhaps the key thing.Alistair said:Hugely surprising to me. Will need to see the exact question wording.
This also struck me as an interesting comment:
https://twitter.com/ChrisPolPsych/status/1307334786617356288
0 -
I tend to agree with the timing, my diesel DS3 is 10 years old and will need replacing at some point but I've driven much less since Coronavirus. Plus the EVs are improving and proliferating at an amazing rate. However, I can't see myself buying a new ICE car ever again - maybe a 2nd hand one to fill in for a year or two.ydoethur said:
Thank you, I will have a play with it.logical_song said:@ydoethur
From last thread - tool to compare journey fuel cost EV vs ICE (Enables you to put in electricity and petrol/diesel costs. Charging overnight can be REALLY cheap on some suppliers)
https://www.zap-map.com/tools/journey-cost-calculator/
Also need to bear in mind maintenance
https://insideevs.com/news/317307/ev-vs-ice-maintenance-the-first-100000-miles/
Total cost of ownership if buying from new is worth comparing.
But I haven't yet seen anything that alters my view that we are still a long way from having mass electric cars. Certainly unless there are dramatic improvements in the next six months (that being about the time I will need to replace my car) I don't think I will be going for one given how much and where I drive.
Next year could see Tesla prices start to come down and range to improve, see what Elon has to say on Tuesday.
I think you will be surprised at how fast the changeover happens once the prices are right - the 'S' curve is quite steep. I'm seeing Plenty of Teslas locally already.
https://marketrealist.imgix.net/uploads/2015/12/Technology-Adoption.png?w=660&fit=max&auto=format1 -
The main thing I'm wondering about is an ordering affectRichard_Nabavi said:
The change since 2016 is perhaps the key thing.Alistair said:Hugely surprising to me. Will need to see the exact question wording.
This also struck me as an interesting comment:
https://twitter.com/ChrisPolPsych/status/1307334786617356288
1) Do you think what happened in 2016 was shit?
2) Do you agree there should be confirmation hearings in 2020?
is a different proposition from
1) Is it okay to delay nomination when voting has already started for an election 50 days out?
2) Do you think it was right to block a nomination for 9 months?0 -
"Surprise attack"?
https://twitter.com/damiengayle/status/1307335403935019008?s=20
Socialist Worker Gruaniad0 -
Late afternoon all
There's a fin-de-l'ete feel about the day as the realities of autumn are drawing nearer.
There's also a state poll from Missouri which shows Trump up 53-45.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2020/MO_Scout_September_2020.pdf
In 2016, Trump won Missouri 57-38 so that's a 5.5% swing to Biden which we've been seeing in some of the GOP strongholds. Margin of Error on the poll is 3%.0 -
-
“NATO helmets”CarlottaVance said:"Surprise attack"?
https://twitter.com/damiengayle/status/1307335403935019008?s=20
Socialist Worker Gruaniad
https://twitter.com/damiengayle/status/1307297033674526727?s=210 -
TdF a bit tasty...0
-
It makes you despairCarlottaVance said:"Surprise attack"?
https://twitter.com/damiengayle/status/1307335403935019008?s=20
Socialist Worker Gruaniad1 -
Who are the police in red hats?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It makes you despairCarlottaVance said:"Surprise attack"?
https://twitter.com/damiengayle/status/1307335403935019008?s=20
Socialist Worker Gruaniad0 -
I have no idearottenborough said:
Who are the police in red hats?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It makes you despairCarlottaVance said:"Surprise attack"?
https://twitter.com/damiengayle/status/1307335403935019008?s=20
Socialist Worker Gruaniad0 -
1
-
-
From your descriptions of your specific requirements, I think we’re about 3-4 years away from what you want. Mind you, when that’s there, EVs have won.ydoethur said:
Thank you, I will have a play with it.logical_song said:@ydoethur
From last thread - tool to compare journey fuel cost EV vs ICE (Enables you to put in electricity and petrol/diesel costs. Charging overnight can be REALLY cheap on some suppliers)
https://www.zap-map.com/tools/journey-cost-calculator/
Also need to bear in mind maintenance
https://insideevs.com/news/317307/ev-vs-ice-maintenance-the-first-100000-miles/
Total cost of ownership if buying from new is worth comparing.
But I haven't yet seen anything that alters my view that we are still a long way from having mass electric cars. Certainly unless there are dramatic improvements in the next six months (that being about the time I will need to replace my car) I don't think I will be going for one given how much and where I drive.
When ranges have doubled (to a standard of all cars being between 400-800 miles depending on what you’re looking for), 150-350kW charging capability is routine (a 150kW charger can put 60 miles charge in a battery in 6 minutes; a 350kW charger can do 140 miles in the same time), and prices are comparable to ICE cars, it’s done.
And the rate of improvement in battery density and prices is going that way, as is the adoption of ultra-fast charging. It’s there or thereabouts for many people already, and more and more people will be in the category of “it suits me now” as time goes on.
1 -
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.2 -
On topic, it makes absolute sense for Trump to delay the Supreme Court decision.
Re-elect Trump and He will appoint a God-fearing real American who will defend your way of life
Or vote for Biden and he will appoint a liberal anti-Christ who will make it illegal not to eat Quinoa1 -
Wow!
What a finish to Tour de France. What odds could you have got on that?
Pogacar overturns a 57 second deficit on final time trial to win by nearly a minute.0 -
Might be an underestimate with the current shower in charge.Scott_xP said:0 -
Wait so the story here is "man nods head"?RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
I sometimes nod my head when I'm listening, I must be more careful as I never thought it implied agreement.0 -
Trump clearly wants to keep the issue of a new Justice live on election day to maximise evangelical turnout0
-
https://twitter.com/damiengayle/status/1307301870940155917?s=20CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=200 -
A New Yorker opines:
https://twitter.com/themajorityscot/status/1307303075225403393?s=20
Edit - I see he's from Carsnootie, which would explain a lot....1 -
https://twitter.com/timoconnorbl/status/1307353624767533061dixiedean said:Wow!
What a finish to Tour de France. What odds could you have got on that?
Pogacar overturns a 57 second deficit on final time trial to win by nearly a minute.0 -
God knows how you would react to actual gallows humour.Big_G_NorthWales said:2 -
https://twitter.com/novaramedia/status/1307259985156624384
No and thank God for that.
Social democrats are in charge now0 -
I hope Labour will back PR3
-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8749585/Renters-betrayed-new-evictions-approach-housing-secretary-tears-pledge.html
Kind and compassionate Tory Party0 -
Looks like the Republican line to justify a pick will be that, while Obama could not be re-elected in 2016 because of term limits - and so his nominee was chosen by a lame duck President - Trump is up for re-election so has the right to choose his nominee.Scott_xP said:
0 -
Unionists hate to see themselves revealed for what they are.CarlottaVance said:A New Yorker opines:
https://twitter.com/themajorityscot/status/1307303075225403393?s=20
Edit - I see he's from Carsnootie, which would explain a lot....0 -
Is the head of the pin large enough..?MrEd said:Looks like the Republican line to justify a pick will be that, while Obama could not be re-elected in 2016 because of term limits - and so his nominee was chosen by a lame duck President - Trump is up for re-election so has the right to choose his nominee.
0 -
It may be true - but is it wise to agree with?RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
"Are you a Leave voter? Sir Keir Starmer thinks you're racist"1 -
UK cases, by specimen date, scaled to 100K population
0 -
Sir Keir does not think you're a racist, oh okay then.CarlottaVance said:
It may be true - but is it wise to agree with?RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
"Are you a Leave voter? Sir Keir Starmer thinks you're racist"0 -
UK cases by specimen date
0 -
Is it Opinium tonight?0
-
Oh...malcolmg22 said:Unionists hate to see themselves revealed for what they are.
https://twitter.com/BrianSpanner1/status/13072999569659904012 -
UK cases summary
0 -
UK deaths
0 -
If the McLuvvies are so fond of the SNP, why do so few (any?) of them live in Scotland?malcolmg22 said:
Unionists hate to see themselves revealed for what they are.CarlottaVance said:A New Yorker opines:
https://twitter.com/themajorityscot/status/1307303075225403393?s=20
Edit - I see he's from Carsnootie, which would explain a lot....
1 -
UK hospitals
0 -
Ahem - yeah .. it really does.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Wait so the story here is "man nods head"?RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
I sometimes nod my head when I'm listening, I must be more careful as I never thought it implied agreement.1 -
Well I'll be sure to be more careful, I do it subconsciously to let them know I am listening.felix said:
Ahem - yeah .. it really does.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Wait so the story here is "man nods head"?RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
I sometimes nod my head when I'm listening, I must be more careful as I never thought it implied agreement.
I was watching an interview with Gabriel Pogrund last night, he was nodding his head a lot and I highly doubt he agreed with anything Aaron Bastani was saying1 -
So hospitalisations are going back up again (England is back at where it was in July?) and the death rate is also trending up.
If I have misunderstood please do correct me but that's not good at all0 -
Yes, it is not good.CorrectHorseBattery said:So hospitalisations are going back up again (England is back at where it was in July?) and the death rate is also trending up.
If I have misunderstood please do correct me but that's not good at all1 -
Yes, that's possible. But don't forget one other thing. Before we can switch to mass EVs, we need to generate sufficient electricity to power them.Andy_Cooke said:
From your descriptions of your specific requirements, I think we’re about 3-4 years away from what you want. Mind you, when that’s there, EVs have won.ydoethur said:
Thank you, I will have a play with it.logical_song said:@ydoethur
From last thread - tool to compare journey fuel cost EV vs ICE (Enables you to put in electricity and petrol/diesel costs. Charging overnight can be REALLY cheap on some suppliers)
https://www.zap-map.com/tools/journey-cost-calculator/
Also need to bear in mind maintenance
https://insideevs.com/news/317307/ev-vs-ice-maintenance-the-first-100000-miles/
Total cost of ownership if buying from new is worth comparing.
But I haven't yet seen anything that alters my view that we are still a long way from having mass electric cars. Certainly unless there are dramatic improvements in the next six months (that being about the time I will need to replace my car) I don't think I will be going for one given how much and where I drive.
When ranges have doubled (to a standard of all cars being between 400-800 miles depending on what you’re looking for), 150-350kW charging capability is routine (a 150kW charger can put 60 miles charge in a battery in 6 minutes; a 350kW charger can do 140 miles in the same time), and prices are comparable to ICE cars, it’s done.
And the rate of improvement in battery density and prices is going that way, as is the adoption of ultra-fast charging. It’s there or thereabouts for many people already, and more and more people will be in the category of “it suits me now” as time goes on.
In 2017 55 million barrels of oil were used to power our transport network. The whole of our electrical output was equivalent to just 17.1 million barrels of oil.
So just to convert transport, we need to more than triple our electricity supply. OK, it will be less than that because ships and probably lorries will not be converted to electricity (more probably hydrogen) and that will amount to at a guess 50% of consumption. But it's still a large figure.
And that's before we talk about gas, which the government also wants to replace, and which was used for the equivalent of 34 million barrels of direct energy (not including gas used to generate electricity)
Add those together and we're looking at a need for a sixfold increase in electricity generation to stand still - and demand is also set to grow.
Finally we need to make sure our grid can cope with that level of demand.
So it's not just about the technology.0 -
Just a thought that appears not to have crossed your mind. Sometimes locals have very good reasons for resenting incomers. Not always but sometimes. Where I come from in Cornwall for instance my home town the incomers have pushed house prices out of all recognition buying up their second homes. Shops have changed out of all recognition to cater to them as well and come winter everything shuts and the place becomes a damn ghost town.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
As an example my mother got offered the chance to buy her council house under right to buy and looked into it and found she couldn't afford it even with the maximum discount. Her two bedroom prefab 1960's bungalow apparently had a market price of 500K
Why shouldn't the locals resent that?0 -
In 2004 Bush won 78% of evangelicals and they made up 23% of the electorateHYUFD said:Trump clearly wants to keep the issue of a new Justice live on election day to maximise evangelical turnout
In 2008 McCain's share of evangelicals fell to 74% but their share of the electorate rose to 26%
In 2012 Romney increased his share of evangelicals back to the 78% Bush got though their share of the electorate remained unchanged at 26%
In 2016 Trump got the highest share of the evangelical vote yet at 81% though their voteshare again remained at 26%.
In November Trump will therefore not only be aiming to keep his share of evangelicals over 80% but to drive their turnout close to 30% of the electorate given the chance of a pro life Justice to replace a pro choice Justice
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election
The last Democrat to win the evangelical vote was Carter in 1976, since then they have played a key part in the winning Republican campaigns of Reagan, Bush 41 once and Bush 43 twice and Trump0 -
I think resenting specific people is fine but I think it's when we tar every person with the same brush that some might find difficulty. I am not saying that is what you are doing here.Pagan2 said:
Just a thought that appears not to have crossed your mind. Sometimes locals have very good reasons for resenting incomers. Not always but sometimes. Where I come from in Cornwall for instance my home town the incomers have pushed house prices out of all recognition buying up their second homes. Shops have changed out of all recognition to cater to them as well and come winter everything shuts and the place becomes a damn ghost town.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
As an example my mother got offered the chance to buy her council house under right to buy and looked into it and found she couldn't afford it even with the maximum discount. Her two bedroom prefab 1960's bungalow apparently had a market price of 500K
Why shouldn't the locals resent that?0 -
Your sycophantic support for Starmer would be more credible if you could just occasionally acknowledge his faults. This is not a big story but it is entirely believeable that many in the party, including Starmer, have a thinly veiled contempt for some of their erstwhile supporters. it has been well documented over the years - ask Gordon.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I'll be sure to be more careful, I do it subconsciously to let them know I am listening.felix said:
Ahem - yeah .. it really does.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Wait so the story here is "man nods head"?RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
I sometimes nod my head when I'm listening, I must be more careful as I never thought it implied agreement.
I was watching an interview with Gabriel Pogrund last night, he was nodding his head a lot and I highly doubt he agreed with anything Aaron Bastani was saying0 -
Good eveing all. If Starmer disagreed with Abbott's analysis perhaps he should have said so.felix said:
Ahem - yeah .. it really does.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Wait so the story here is "man nods head"?RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
I sometimes nod my head when I'm listening, I must be more careful as I never thought it implied agreement.2 -
Updated the case discovery rate graphs
0 -
Desperate defending yet again by United.0
-
It was abbot , starmer and rochdale doing the tarring all those people with a brush. I merely pointed out that yes sometimes in someplaces locals have good solid reasons to resent incomersCorrectHorseBattery said:
I think resenting specific people is fine but I think it's when we tar every person with the same brush that some might find difficulty. I am not saying that is what you are doing here.Pagan2 said:
Just a thought that appears not to have crossed your mind. Sometimes locals have very good reasons for resenting incomers. Not always but sometimes. Where I come from in Cornwall for instance my home town the incomers have pushed house prices out of all recognition buying up their second homes. Shops have changed out of all recognition to cater to them as well and come winter everything shuts and the place becomes a damn ghost town.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
As an example my mother got offered the chance to buy her council house under right to buy and looked into it and found she couldn't afford it even with the maximum discount. Her two bedroom prefab 1960's bungalow apparently had a market price of 500K
Why shouldn't the locals resent that?0 -
The proportion of Americans identifying as Evangelical, (and indeed Christian), is falling though.HYUFD said:
In 2004 Bush won 78% of evangelicals and they made up 23% of the electorateHYUFD said:Trump clearly wants to keep the issue of a new Justice live on election day to maximise evangelical turnout
In 2008 McCain's share of evangelicals fell to 74% but their share of the electorate rose to 26%
In 2012 Romney increased his share of evangelicals back to the 78% Bush got though their share of the electorate remained unchanged at 26%
In 2016 Trump got the highest share of the evangelical vote yet at 81% though their voteshare again remained at 26%.
In November Trump will therefore not only be aiming to keep his share of evangelicals over 80% but to drive their turnout close to 30% of the electorate given the chance of a pro life Justice to replace a pro choice Justice
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election
The last Democrat to win the evangelical vote was Carter in 1976, since then they have played a key part in the winning Republican campaigns of Reagan, Bush 41 once and Bush 43 twice and Trump
So really he has to work hard to stand still with them.0 -
Whatever mate, I thought I made a perfectly reasonable point about my own experience with nodding a head not automatically meaning agreement (and gave another example) but irrespective of that, if Keir was agreeing then obviously that's no way to win an election.felix said:
Your sycophantic support for Starmer would be more credible if you could just occasionally acknowledge his faults. This is not a big story but it is entirely believeable that many in the party, including Starmer, have a thinly veiled contempt for some of their erstwhile supporters. it has been well documented over the years - ask Gordon.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I'll be sure to be more careful, I do it subconsciously to let them know I am listening.felix said:
Ahem - yeah .. it really does.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Wait so the story here is "man nods head"?RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
I sometimes nod my head when I'm listening, I must be more careful as I never thought it implied agreement.
I was watching an interview with Gabriel Pogrund last night, he was nodding his head a lot and I highly doubt he agreed with anything Aaron Bastani was saying1 -
Also, I doubt second home owners are much of an issue in Thornaby.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think resenting specific people is fine but I think it's when we tar every person with the same brush that some might find difficulty. I am not saying that is what you are doing here.Pagan2 said:
Just a thought that appears not to have crossed your mind. Sometimes locals have very good reasons for resenting incomers. Not always but sometimes. Where I come from in Cornwall for instance my home town the incomers have pushed house prices out of all recognition buying up their second homes. Shops have changed out of all recognition to cater to them as well and come winter everything shuts and the place becomes a damn ghost town.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
As an example my mother got offered the chance to buy her council house under right to buy and looked into it and found she couldn't afford it even with the maximum discount. Her two bedroom prefab 1960's bungalow apparently had a market price of 500K
Why shouldn't the locals resent that?0 -
So basically it's okay to resent people as long as they're people you personally don't like, is that the conclusion? Then you might be called a hypocrite.Pagan2 said:
It was abbot , starmer and rochdale doing the tarring all those people with a brush. I merely pointed out that yes sometimes in someplaces locals have good solid reasons to resent incomersCorrectHorseBattery said:
I think resenting specific people is fine but I think it's when we tar every person with the same brush that some might find difficulty. I am not saying that is what you are doing here.Pagan2 said:
Just a thought that appears not to have crossed your mind. Sometimes locals have very good reasons for resenting incomers. Not always but sometimes. Where I come from in Cornwall for instance my home town the incomers have pushed house prices out of all recognition buying up their second homes. Shops have changed out of all recognition to cater to them as well and come winter everything shuts and the place becomes a damn ghost town.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
As an example my mother got offered the chance to buy her council house under right to buy and looked into it and found she couldn't afford it even with the maximum discount. Her two bedroom prefab 1960's bungalow apparently had a market price of 500K
Why shouldn't the locals resent that?
My concern would be around - for example - that say "Romanians are coming here to steal our jobs". They aren't coming here to steal anything, in many cases they're doing jobs the British refuse to do like cleaning loos. Or working in the NHS, or keeping our elderly people alive.
Are we to resent those "incomers"? Or you agree that we should make distinctions.0 -
Lorries are going to go electric next.ydoethur said:
Yes, that's possible. But don't forget one other thing. Before we can switch to mass EVs, we need to generate sufficient electricity to power them.Andy_Cooke said:
From your descriptions of your specific requirements, I think we’re about 3-4 years away from what you want. Mind you, when that’s there, EVs have won.ydoethur said:
Thank you, I will have a play with it.logical_song said:@ydoethur
From last thread - tool to compare journey fuel cost EV vs ICE (Enables you to put in electricity and petrol/diesel costs. Charging overnight can be REALLY cheap on some suppliers)
https://www.zap-map.com/tools/journey-cost-calculator/
Also need to bear in mind maintenance
https://insideevs.com/news/317307/ev-vs-ice-maintenance-the-first-100000-miles/
Total cost of ownership if buying from new is worth comparing.
But I haven't yet seen anything that alters my view that we are still a long way from having mass electric cars. Certainly unless there are dramatic improvements in the next six months (that being about the time I will need to replace my car) I don't think I will be going for one given how much and where I drive.
When ranges have doubled (to a standard of all cars being between 400-800 miles depending on what you’re looking for), 150-350kW charging capability is routine (a 150kW charger can put 60 miles charge in a battery in 6 minutes; a 350kW charger can do 140 miles in the same time), and prices are comparable to ICE cars, it’s done.
And the rate of improvement in battery density and prices is going that way, as is the adoption of ultra-fast charging. It’s there or thereabouts for many people already, and more and more people will be in the category of “it suits me now” as time goes on.
In 2017 55 million barrels of oil were used to power our transport network. The whole of our electrical output was equivalent to just 17.1 million barrels of oil.
So just to convert transport, we need to more than triple our electricity supply. OK, it will be less than that because ships and probably lorries will not be converted to electricity (more probably hydrogen) and that will amount to at a guess 50% of consumption. But it's still a large figure.
And that's before we talk about gas, which the government also wants to replace, and which was used for the equivalent of 34 million barrels of direct energy (not including gas used to generate electricity)
Add those together and we're looking at a need for a sixfold increase in electricity generation to stand still - and demand is also set to grow.
Finally we need to make sure our grid can cope with that level of demand.
So it's not just about the technology.
As to the demand for electricity - yes, it will require an enormous build out.0 -
That's exactly right, we are to conclude he agreed.ladupnorth said:
Good eveing all. If Starmer disagreed with Abbott's analysis perhaps he should have said so.felix said:
Ahem - yeah .. it really does.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Wait so the story here is "man nods head"?RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
I sometimes nod my head when I'm listening, I must be more careful as I never thought it implied agreement.
Which even if he does, the optics are not good at all.0 -
I broke a rib laughing yesterday when I found out that when Fergie retired he had lined up Thiago Alcantara as a welcome present but Moyes said no to the transfer because he hadn't seen Thiago play, so you ended up with Marouane Fellaini.DavidL said:Desperate defending yet again by United.
0 -
I didn't assert it was always reasonable to resent incomers, just that sometimes it has real reasons and it shouldn't be automatically assumed to be bigotry,dixiedean said:
Also, I doubt second home owners are much of an issue in Thornaby.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think resenting specific people is fine but I think it's when we tar every person with the same brush that some might find difficulty. I am not saying that is what you are doing here.Pagan2 said:
Just a thought that appears not to have crossed your mind. Sometimes locals have very good reasons for resenting incomers. Not always but sometimes. Where I come from in Cornwall for instance my home town the incomers have pushed house prices out of all recognition buying up their second homes. Shops have changed out of all recognition to cater to them as well and come winter everything shuts and the place becomes a damn ghost town.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
As an example my mother got offered the chance to buy her council house under right to buy and looked into it and found she couldn't afford it even with the maximum discount. Her two bedroom prefab 1960's bungalow apparently had a market price of 500K
Why shouldn't the locals resent that?
I am sure many in the country resented the vikings when they used to visit but I think it would be hard to put that down purely to xenophobic bigotry1 -
Been away from PB and visiting the real world for a bit so I don't know how the Brains Trust here has evaluated the Ginsburg effect. Intuitively I feel it should favor Trump but logically it is hard to pinpoint why. It was known she was likely to go soon, whether through illness death or retirement, and Evangelicals would always support a candidate who promised them SC appointments to their liking. So Trump was always going to get their vote regardless of whether there was actually a vacancy or not. I'm not sure really why the actuality of a vacancy makes much difference.HYUFD said:
In 2004 Bush won 78% of evangelicals and they made up 23% of the electorateHYUFD said:Trump clearly wants to keep the issue of a new Justice live on election day to maximise evangelical turnout
In 2008 McCain's share of evangelicals fell to 74% but their share of the electorate rose to 26%
In 2012 Romney increased his share of evangelicals back to the 78% Bush got though their share of the electorate remained unchanged at 26%
In 2016 Trump got the highest share of the evangelical vote yet at 81% though their voteshare again remained at 26%.
In November Trump will therefore not only be aiming to keep his share of evangelicals over 80% but to drive their turnout close to 30% of the electorate given the chance of a pro life Justice to replace a pro choice Justice
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election
The last Democrat to win the evangelical vote was Carter in 1976, since then they have played a key part in the winning Republican campaigns of Reagan, Bush 41 once and Bush 43 twice and Trump
Trump's price has shortened a bit on Betfair, back to where it was a few days ago. The Spreads are unmoved. Somehow I think replacing Ginsburg is not going to determine the Election.
0 -
For a bit of balance, thoughMalmesbury said:
Yes, it is not good.CorrectHorseBattery said:So hospitalisations are going back up again (England is back at where it was in July?) and the death rate is also trending up.
If I have misunderstood please do correct me but that's not good at all
2 -
I do not think all Brexit voters were racist, do I think racism informed some voters' decisions? Of course I do.
Do I think the media whipped up hatred for people from abroad and pretended they caused a lot of problems in our society? Also, yes0 -
Must be a quiet news day if we are having this debate again.CorrectHorseBattery said:I do not think all Brexit voters were racist, do I think racism informed some voters' decisions? Of course I do.
Do I think the media whipped up hatred for people from abroad and pretended they caused a lot of problems in our society? Also, yes
Violins.1 -
A few weeks ago I posted on PB that an American friend, a never Trump GOPer, said that the only way Trump was going to win was if one of the Supremes dropped dead, that we underestimated the influence of selecting Scalia's replacement got out the never Trumpers for Trump in 2016.Peter_the_Punter said:
Been away from PB and visiting the real world for a bit so I don't know how the Brains Trust here has evaluated the Ginsburg effect. Intuitively I feel it should favor Trump but logically it is hard to pinpoint why. It was known she was likely to go soon, whether through illness death or retirement, and Evangelicals would always support a candidate who promised them SC appointments to their liking. So Trump was always going to get their vote regardless of whether there was actually a vacancy or not. I'm not sure really why the actuality of a vacancy makes much difference.HYUFD said:
In 2004 Bush won 78% of evangelicals and they made up 23% of the electorateHYUFD said:Trump clearly wants to keep the issue of a new Justice live on election day to maximise evangelical turnout
In 2008 McCain's share of evangelicals fell to 74% but their share of the electorate rose to 26%
In 2012 Romney increased his share of evangelicals back to the 78% Bush got though their share of the electorate remained unchanged at 26%
In 2016 Trump got the highest share of the evangelical vote yet at 81% though their voteshare again remained at 26%.
In November Trump will therefore not only be aiming to keep his share of evangelicals over 80% but to drive their turnout close to 30% of the electorate given the chance of a pro life Justice to replace a pro choice Justice
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election
The last Democrat to win the evangelical vote was Carter in 1976, since then they have played a key part in the winning Republican campaigns of Reagan, Bush 41 once and Bush 43 twice and Trump
Trump's price has shortened a bit on Betfair, back to where it was a few days ago. The Spreads are unmoved. Somehow I think replacing Ginsburg is not going to determine the Election.0 -
It illustrates a problem that Labour need to solve and which was writ very large under Corbyn - the tension between the m/c well educated socialists and the w/c voter base whose societal view is often not on script. It has existed since the party's birth at the turn of the 20th century and has waxed and waned throughout its history. Starmer may or may not be able to square it. Much depends on policies which we are largely yet to see. His current polling is quite good but given who he replaced and the current situation it would be very odd indeed if it was anything else.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Whatever mate, I thought I made a perfectly reasonable point about my own experience with nodding a head not automatically meaning agreement (and gave another example) but irrespective of that, if Keir was agreeing then obviously that's no way to win an election.felix said:
Your sycophantic support for Starmer would be more credible if you could just occasionally acknowledge his faults. This is not a big story but it is entirely believeable that many in the party, including Starmer, have a thinly veiled contempt for some of their erstwhile supporters. it has been well documented over the years - ask Gordon.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I'll be sure to be more careful, I do it subconsciously to let them know I am listening.felix said:
Ahem - yeah .. it really does.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Wait so the story here is "man nods head"?RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
I sometimes nod my head when I'm listening, I must be more careful as I never thought it implied agreement.
I was watching an interview with Gabriel Pogrund last night, he was nodding his head a lot and I highly doubt he agreed with anything Aaron Bastani was saying0 -
It's okay to resent a specific person, I think but to resent everyone of a certain race, or country because of bad experiences with one would be bordering on racism.Pagan2 said:
I didn't assert it was always reasonable to resent incomers, just that sometimes it has real reasons and it shouldn't be automatically assumed to be bigotry,dixiedean said:
Also, I doubt second home owners are much of an issue in Thornaby.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think resenting specific people is fine but I think it's when we tar every person with the same brush that some might find difficulty. I am not saying that is what you are doing here.Pagan2 said:
Just a thought that appears not to have crossed your mind. Sometimes locals have very good reasons for resenting incomers. Not always but sometimes. Where I come from in Cornwall for instance my home town the incomers have pushed house prices out of all recognition buying up their second homes. Shops have changed out of all recognition to cater to them as well and come winter everything shuts and the place becomes a damn ghost town.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
As an example my mother got offered the chance to buy her council house under right to buy and looked into it and found she couldn't afford it even with the maximum discount. Her two bedroom prefab 1960's bungalow apparently had a market price of 500K
Why shouldn't the locals resent that?
I am sure many in the country resented the vikings when they used to visit but I think it would be hard to put that down purely to xenophobic bigotry
For example, hating Eastern Europeans because Polish people come here to work. Do you think that's reasonable? I don't.0 -
I gave you a specific example from personal experience where I fely the locals had a cause for resentment and as usual you try and put words in my mouth that I haven't uttered in your nasty lefty way.CorrectHorseBattery said:
So basically it's okay to resent people as long as they're people you personally don't like, is that the conclusion? Then you might be called a hypocrite.Pagan2 said:
It was abbot , starmer and rochdale doing the tarring all those people with a brush. I merely pointed out that yes sometimes in someplaces locals have good solid reasons to resent incomersCorrectHorseBattery said:
I think resenting specific people is fine but I think it's when we tar every person with the same brush that some might find difficulty. I am not saying that is what you are doing here.Pagan2 said:
Just a thought that appears not to have crossed your mind. Sometimes locals have very good reasons for resenting incomers. Not always but sometimes. Where I come from in Cornwall for instance my home town the incomers have pushed house prices out of all recognition buying up their second homes. Shops have changed out of all recognition to cater to them as well and come winter everything shuts and the place becomes a damn ghost town.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
As an example my mother got offered the chance to buy her council house under right to buy and looked into it and found she couldn't afford it even with the maximum discount. Her two bedroom prefab 1960's bungalow apparently had a market price of 500K
Why shouldn't the locals resent that?
My concern would be around - for example - that say "Romanians are coming here to steal our jobs". They aren't coming here to steal anything, in many cases they're doing jobs the British refuse to do like cleaning loos. Or working in the NHS, or keeping our elderly people alive.
Are we to resent those "incomers"? Or you agree that we should make distinctions.
I REPEAT IN CAPS BECAUSE YOU SEEM TO BE UNABLE TO READ WHAT I WROTE ......IN SOME PLACES....IE NOT ALL0 -
Thanks - remind me how many days back do we have to go to see "reliable" data that's unlikely to change (much)?Malmesbury said:UK cases, by specimen date, scaled to 100K population
Clearly Scotland is getting its stats out faster than EW. Given a lot of the testing is via UK "Lighthouse" labs, why does EW have a lag Scotland does not?0 -
Stop putting words in my mouth I never saidCorrectHorseBattery said:
It's okay to resent a specific person, I think but to resent everyone of a certain race, or country because of bad experiences with one would be bordering on racism.Pagan2 said:
I didn't assert it was always reasonable to resent incomers, just that sometimes it has real reasons and it shouldn't be automatically assumed to be bigotry,dixiedean said:
Also, I doubt second home owners are much of an issue in Thornaby.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think resenting specific people is fine but I think it's when we tar every person with the same brush that some might find difficulty. I am not saying that is what you are doing here.Pagan2 said:
Just a thought that appears not to have crossed your mind. Sometimes locals have very good reasons for resenting incomers. Not always but sometimes. Where I come from in Cornwall for instance my home town the incomers have pushed house prices out of all recognition buying up their second homes. Shops have changed out of all recognition to cater to them as well and come winter everything shuts and the place becomes a damn ghost town.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
As an example my mother got offered the chance to buy her council house under right to buy and looked into it and found she couldn't afford it even with the maximum discount. Her two bedroom prefab 1960's bungalow apparently had a market price of 500K
Why shouldn't the locals resent that?
I am sure many in the country resented the vikings when they used to visit but I think it would be hard to put that down purely to xenophobic bigotry
For example, hating Eastern Europeans because Polish people come here to work. Do you think that's reasonable? I don't.0 -
0
-
George Orwell write extensively on the issue of the Intellectuals vs The Workers in the socialist movement. Nothing much has changed.felix said:
It illustrates a problem that Labour need to solve and which was writ very large under Corbyn - the tension between the m/c well educated socialists and the w/c voter base whose societal view is often not on script. It has existed since the party's birth at the turn of the 20th century and has waxed and waned throughout its history. Starmer may or may not be able to square it. Much depends on policies which we are largely yet to see. His current polling is quite good but given who he replaced and the current situation it would be very odd indeed if it was anything else.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Whatever mate, I thought I made a perfectly reasonable point about my own experience with nodding a head not automatically meaning agreement (and gave another example) but irrespective of that, if Keir was agreeing then obviously that's no way to win an election.felix said:
Your sycophantic support for Starmer would be more credible if you could just occasionally acknowledge his faults. This is not a big story but it is entirely believeable that many in the party, including Starmer, have a thinly veiled contempt for some of their erstwhile supporters. it has been well documented over the years - ask Gordon.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I'll be sure to be more careful, I do it subconsciously to let them know I am listening.felix said:
Ahem - yeah .. it really does.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Wait so the story here is "man nods head"?RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
I sometimes nod my head when I'm listening, I must be more careful as I never thought it implied agreement.
I was watching an interview with Gabriel Pogrund last night, he was nodding his head a lot and I highly doubt he agreed with anything Aaron Bastani was saying1 -
Good post.felix said:
It illustrates a problem that Labour need to solve and which was writ very large under Corbyn - the tension between the m/c well educated socialists and the w/c voter base whose societal view is often not on script. It has existed since the party's birth at the turn of the 20th century and has waxed and waned throughout its history. Starmer may or may not be able to square it. Much depends on policies which we are largely yet to see. His current polling is quite good but given who he replaced and the current situation it would be very odd indeed if it was anything else.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Whatever mate, I thought I made a perfectly reasonable point about my own experience with nodding a head not automatically meaning agreement (and gave another example) but irrespective of that, if Keir was agreeing then obviously that's no way to win an election.felix said:
Your sycophantic support for Starmer would be more credible if you could just occasionally acknowledge his faults. This is not a big story but it is entirely believeable that many in the party, including Starmer, have a thinly veiled contempt for some of their erstwhile supporters. it has been well documented over the years - ask Gordon.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I'll be sure to be more careful, I do it subconsciously to let them know I am listening.felix said:
Ahem - yeah .. it really does.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Wait so the story here is "man nods head"?RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
I sometimes nod my head when I'm listening, I must be more careful as I never thought it implied agreement.
I was watching an interview with Gabriel Pogrund last night, he was nodding his head a lot and I highly doubt he agreed with anything Aaron Bastani was saying
I think we need to distinguish between views which we hold in private - which may well be right or wrong - and those that we air as a party. Too much - as you say - our private views have become party policy.
For example, I do think racism informed the Brexit vote for some. Do I think it's useful to air those views to the public? No.
But this is about clever politics and something far above my paygrade, it is turning around the policies to who they target and the way we sell them.
You could sell railway nationalisation in a far more patriotic and working-class focussed way than Labour has done historically.0 -
You said it's sometimes reasonable to resent incomers, I just wondered which incomers you thought it okay to resent and your reasons for doing so.Pagan2 said:
Stop putting words in my mouth I never saidCorrectHorseBattery said:
It's okay to resent a specific person, I think but to resent everyone of a certain race, or country because of bad experiences with one would be bordering on racism.Pagan2 said:
I didn't assert it was always reasonable to resent incomers, just that sometimes it has real reasons and it shouldn't be automatically assumed to be bigotry,dixiedean said:
Also, I doubt second home owners are much of an issue in Thornaby.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think resenting specific people is fine but I think it's when we tar every person with the same brush that some might find difficulty. I am not saying that is what you are doing here.Pagan2 said:
Just a thought that appears not to have crossed your mind. Sometimes locals have very good reasons for resenting incomers. Not always but sometimes. Where I come from in Cornwall for instance my home town the incomers have pushed house prices out of all recognition buying up their second homes. Shops have changed out of all recognition to cater to them as well and come winter everything shuts and the place becomes a damn ghost town.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
As an example my mother got offered the chance to buy her council house under right to buy and looked into it and found she couldn't afford it even with the maximum discount. Her two bedroom prefab 1960's bungalow apparently had a market price of 500K
Why shouldn't the locals resent that?
I am sure many in the country resented the vikings when they used to visit but I think it would be hard to put that down purely to xenophobic bigotry
For example, hating Eastern Europeans because Polish people come here to work. Do you think that's reasonable? I don't.
I recalled that in the past you cited immigration that came from abroad as being one of your issues and it was a motivation for Brexit.0 -
A senior politician, let alone the leader of a party should surely be aware of the signals he sends, given most eyes will be upon him. As has been pointed out, if he disagreed with the analysis, surely he would have said something?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well I'll be sure to be more careful, I do it subconsciously to let them know I am listening.felix said:
Ahem - yeah .. it really does.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Wait so the story here is "man nods head"?RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
I sometimes nod my head when I'm listening, I must be more careful as I never thought it implied agreement.
1 -
A problem for the left is the tendency to denounce with words like 'racism' 'sexism' as a substitute for reasoned argument. CHB tries to avoid it but you hear and read it all the time from the left. In the end most people ignore it and vote accordingly.Pagan2 said:
Stop putting words in my mouth I never saidCorrectHorseBattery said:
It's okay to resent a specific person, I think but to resent everyone of a certain race, or country because of bad experiences with one would be bordering on racism.Pagan2 said:
I didn't assert it was always reasonable to resent incomers, just that sometimes it has real reasons and it shouldn't be automatically assumed to be bigotry,dixiedean said:
Also, I doubt second home owners are much of an issue in Thornaby.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think resenting specific people is fine but I think it's when we tar every person with the same brush that some might find difficulty. I am not saying that is what you are doing here.Pagan2 said:
Just a thought that appears not to have crossed your mind. Sometimes locals have very good reasons for resenting incomers. Not always but sometimes. Where I come from in Cornwall for instance my home town the incomers have pushed house prices out of all recognition buying up their second homes. Shops have changed out of all recognition to cater to them as well and come winter everything shuts and the place becomes a damn ghost town.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get why this is controversial. Here in Thornaby-on-Tees local Labour activists in their 60s describe their fellow townspeople as Parochial Bigots. And not incomers like me, these are was born here have only lived here and will die here activists. The town votes for the local independent party who rants on about the evils of the people on the Stockton (County Durham) side of the River. His eminence the Mayor-for-Life posted a very funny 3am Facebook rant against me that having not been born here I would never get here and would be better "going home" to Rochdale.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure this has been filed away for the GE:
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1307337295377428482?s=20
And that's against people not from Yorkshire. People are increasingly openly against anyone who isn't exactly like them, and foreigners are an easy target. Its not hard right racism, just petty bigotry. And the kind of seats like Lavery mentions are riddled with exactly the kind of white working class people like Rochdale's Mrs "Bigoted Woman" Duffy and frankly my dad who whilst not being explicitly racist are more than happy to label non-whites by their skin colour and cast aspersions based on that.
The media have a lot of the blame for whipping this up though. Anti-foreigner stories endlessly in their newspapers is how you end up with white people in a town that is almost entirely white saying that the country is too full of migrants like the ones that they can't see as they don't exist locally.
As an example my mother got offered the chance to buy her council house under right to buy and looked into it and found she couldn't afford it even with the maximum discount. Her two bedroom prefab 1960's bungalow apparently had a market price of 500K
Why shouldn't the locals resent that?
I am sure many in the country resented the vikings when they used to visit but I think it would be hard to put that down purely to xenophobic bigotry
For example, hating Eastern Europeans because Polish people come here to work. Do you think that's reasonable? I don't.0 -
Top trolling by Spurs.
Announcing this while Manchester United are trailing Crystal Palace due to sloppy defending.
I see what you did there Spurs.
https://twitter.com/SpursOfficial/status/13073600502945218570 -
After the last 3 days, it is usually pretty stable.CarlottaVance said:
Thanks - remind me how many days back do we have to go to see "reliable" data that's unlikely to change (much)?Malmesbury said:UK cases, by specimen date, scaled to 100K population
Clearly Scotland is getting its stats out faster than EW. Given a lot of the testing is via UK "Lighthouse" labs, why does EW have a lag Scotland does not?
Scotland puts out data faster, mainly because of centralisation. It did take them a long, long time to start collecting data by specimen date, though. They are also doing much less pillar 2 testing, I believe.
1
This discussion has been closed.