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John Swinney and the SQA must resign.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?

https://twitter.com/BrianWilson1967/status/1290626288001200128

ydoethur said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Sean_F said:

What was the reason for what seems a special degree of hatred for the Ukrainians?

It's rather complicated, and absolutely horrific, but basically many Ukrainians sided enthusiastically with the Nazis to save themselves from the Russians, conducting their own atrocities which in some cases even the Nazis thought were over the top. As things developed - badly - the Nazis started rounding up Ukrainians, so it wasn't even successful as a mode of self-preservation. Then as the tide turned the Russians advanced over Ukraine and took a horrendous revenge.

The whole WWII history of Eastern Europe is full of multi-faceted horrors, in which in wasn't just the Nazis and Soviets who were guilty of war crimes, but is relatively unknown in the West.

This is an excellent book on the subject:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitlers-Empire-Nazi-Occupied-Europe/dp/0141011920

The Holdomar was before WWII, not after it. It's the reason the Ukrainians were so keen on the Nazis, whom they saw as liberators.

Unfortunately the Nazis weren't so keen on the Ukrainians:

"We are a master race, which must remember that the lowliest German worker is racially and biologically a thousand times more valuable than the population here." - Erich Koch in 1943.

Erich Koch was "Reichskommissar" for Ukraine 1941 to 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskommissariat_Ukraine

Sean_F said:

2. For all their brutality and cruelty, the Soviets never implemented the equivalent of Generalplan Ost, or the Holocaust, on the countries they occupied.

I think the Poles might bet to differ!

And then there's the Soviet ethnic cleanising of people like the Crimean Tatars and the Buddhist Kalmyks.

Cyclefree said:

There is something grotesque about giving China credit for taking people out of poverty when it made them poor in the first place and killed many tens of millions through famine first.

A similar thing happened with British Rule in India.

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England

But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.

FPT:

DavidL said:

Happened as we feared. A boy who got the third equal top mark in the country in his National 5 in computing last year (98%) has been given a band 2 having got a band 1 in his prelim. Just ridiculous but I am not sure that there is anything we can do since he got an "A".

This will adversely affect his Oxford application. It is bloody unfair.

All to play for! I got in on the strength of my interview (half way through I thought, feck it, I'm not going to get in, so I'll give as good as I get), certainly not my entrance exam results - so with a bit of luck he'll get to interview - then it's up to him. I'd hope this year of all years the Universities will be taking exam awards with a pinch of salt.

ydoethur said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

ydoethur said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Sean_F said:

What was the reason for what seems a special degree of hatred for the Ukrainians?

It's rather complicated, and absolutely horrific, but basically many Ukrainians sided enthusiastically with the Nazis to save themselves from the Russians, conducting their own atrocities which in some cases even the Nazis thought were over the top. As things developed - badly - the Nazis started rounding up Ukrainians, so it wasn't even successful as a mode of self-preservation. Then as the tide turned the Russians advanced over Ukraine and took a horrendous revenge.

The whole WWII history of Eastern Europe is full of multi-faceted horrors, in which in wasn't just the Nazis and Soviets who were guilty of war crimes, but is relatively unknown in the West.

This is an excellent book on the subject:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitlers-Empire-Nazi-Occupied-Europe/dp/0141011920

The Holdomar was before WWII, not after it. It's the reason the Ukrainians were so keen on the Nazis, whom they saw as liberators.

Unfortunately the Nazis weren't so keen on the Ukrainians:

"We are a master race, which must remember that the lowliest German worker is racially and biologically a thousand times more valuable than the population here." - Erich Koch in 1943.

Erich Koch was "Reichskommissar" for Ukraine 1941 to 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskommissariat_Ukraine

We all make mistakes.

Fortunately not usually as bad as that.

Well, there were various nationalists in South East Asia who thought the Japanese were there to liberate them.

That turned out equally well.

TheScreamingEagles said:

First.

Eid Bah Gum!

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

I'm astonished it hasn't happened already. Just goes to show how much damage Corbyn did to Brand Labour.

Thatcher used to get p*ssed off if the Tories weren't behind in the polls early in their term - it just showed they weren't getting the unpopular decisions out of the way.

Scott_xP said:

Theuniondivvie said:

SNP honeymoon over?

A completely devolved issue, that the SNP have had control over for the entire schooling of this cohort, and have massively fucked up in a hugely public manner.

Parents being notoriously blaze about their kids future, expect SNP polling leads to widen...

I am confident that if it had come to pass that you would be cheering a 19.8 point increase in pass rate figures based on teachers' estimates to the rafters, and the term entirely unjustified grade inflation would be nowhere to be seen.

Stocky said:

I`m not sure about the Eat Out to Help Out thing.

Just back from Devon. A few observations:

- We were after a takeaway coffee on the seafront, but ended up sitting in and drinking it as it was half price. Cafe owner tipped us off. Full price if we had walked away with it.

- In evening we had a meal in a cafe (three of us) and £46 bill became £23

- In both instances, we would have bought these goods at full price if scheme wasn`t in existence

- the discounts were applied automatically. We didn`t have to ask for them.

This is going to cost a fortune and may not flush out as many scared homies as intended. I think the cost will be considerably greater than the benefit.

From my experience last night I'd say the opposite, there was barely a table free and we went to the same place the week before and there were almost no people there, just the two of us. The discount is definitely convincing people to go out and anecdotally restaurant owners are saying they have seen a surge in table bookings for the Monday-Wednesday period. These are people who may have been comfortable to go anyway, but it's given a needed push to get them in the door and spending money in a sector that badly needs it.

CarlottaVance said:

FPT:

DavidL said:

Happened as we feared. A boy who got the third equal top mark in the country in his National 5 in computing last year (98%) has been given a band 2 having got a band 1 in his prelim. Just ridiculous but I am not sure that there is anything we can do since he got an "A".

This will adversely affect his Oxford application. It is bloody unfair.

All to play for! I got in on the strength of my interview (half way through I thought, feck it, I'm not going to get in, so I'll give as good as I get), certainly not my entrance exam results - so with a bit of luck he'll get to interview - then it's up to him. I'd hope this year of all years the Universities will be taking exam awards with a pinch of salt.

Thanks. I have sent that to him. He's pretty gutted at the moment.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

I think the SNP have pretty much caught the Lib Dems already.

HYUFD said:

To be fair to Trump even on deaths as a percentage of population the US is only 8th, the UK is 2nd behind Belgium

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Yes we haven't anything to shout about, but at least we have done something about it. The US is steaming ahead with its case and death numbers.

He even talked about the spike in Australia in an earlier clip as a comparison. For crying out loud the entire Australian figures for cases and deaths are 1/3 and 1/5 of the USA for just 1 day!!!!

NHS Hospital numbers out

Last 3-5 days are subject to revision. This means that anyone who tries to use the last 3-5 days to prove a point is a self-diagnosed idiot.

Headline - 6
7 days - 6
Yesterday - 2

Any update on a revision to the PHE methodology?

felix said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

felix said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?

Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!

I can say what I like thanks, it's a free forum.

Oh indeed so regular it reminds me to pick my nose..

Good luck in your Spanish naturalisation/citizenship application. I'm sure they are crying out for one more arch, snarky Brit over there.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/andy-burnham-hits-out-eat-18712634

Andy Burnham not happy with the rich getting cheaper food whilst the poorer suffer.

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England

But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.

It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.

Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

Just think about that.

What other category of MP will they try it on next?

The problem is that while you, or @Big_G_NorthWales, have the power to vote in an MP who controls health, education etc in England, I don't have that power in England to vote on somebody who controls those matters for you.

Yes, I know that there are indirect impacts, but that's not the point. You don't have to be a rabid English nationalist to see that as an issue.

The correct solution is further devolution to England, but for practical reasons that's hard.

The alternative is for Scottish and Welsh MPs to be very careful about what they vote on and why - for example, not buggering about with fox hunting - so as not to draw too much attention to it. Unfortunately, for their own reasons the SNP have taken exactly the opposite course.

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England

But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.

It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.

Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

Just think about that.

What other category of MP will they try it on next?

No that's not the basic point.

The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.

DavidL said:

MaxPB said:

Stocky said:

I`m not sure about the Eat Out to Help Out thing.

Just back from Devon. A few observations:

- We were after a takeaway coffee on the seafront, but ended up sitting in and drinking it as it was half price. Cafe owner tipped us off. Full price if we had walked away with it.

- In evening we had a meal in a cafe (three of us) and £46 bill became £23

- In both instances, we would have bought these goods at full price if scheme wasn`t in existence

- the discounts were applied automatically. We didn`t have to ask for them.

This is going to cost a fortune and may not flush out as many scared homies as intended. I think the cost will be considerably greater than the benefit.

From my experience last night I'd say the opposite, there was barely a table free and we went to the same place the week before and there were almost no people there, just the two of us. The discount is definitely convincing people to go out and anecdotally restaurant owners are saying they have seen a surge in table bookings for the Monday-Wednesday period. These are people who may have been comfortable to go anyway, but it's given a needed push to get them in the door and spending money in a sector that badly needs it.

We went out for tea at the local pub last night. It was very busy too. The food bill was cut by 50% and more than reasonable! I can see it getting us out a few more times in the coming month than I might have done otherwise.

Trouble is, from the government`s point of view, they`ll end up getting criticism even though it is their scheme

It`s for August only and I`ll bet that a few days prior to its end Starmer will call for it to be extended. If it is he`ll claim it`s down to his pressure and if it isn`t he`ll criticise the governement for "not supporting a struggling sector and withdrawing vital support". I can see it now.

Philip_Thompson said:

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England

But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.

It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.

Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

Just think about that.

What other category of MP will they try it on next?

No that's not the basic point.

The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.

and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?

Malmesbury said:

ydoethur said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

ydoethur said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Sean_F said:

What was the reason for what seems a special degree of hatred for the Ukrainians?

It's rather complicated, and absolutely horrific, but basically many Ukrainians sided enthusiastically with the Nazis to save themselves from the Russians, conducting their own atrocities which in some cases even the Nazis thought were over the top. As things developed - badly - the Nazis started rounding up Ukrainians, so it wasn't even successful as a mode of self-preservation. Then as the tide turned the Russians advanced over Ukraine and took a horrendous revenge.

The whole WWII history of Eastern Europe is full of multi-faceted horrors, in which in wasn't just the Nazis and Soviets who were guilty of war crimes, but is relatively unknown in the West.

This is an excellent book on the subject:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitlers-Empire-Nazi-Occupied-Europe/dp/0141011920

The Holdomar was before WWII, not after it. It's the reason the Ukrainians were so keen on the Nazis, whom they saw as liberators.

Unfortunately the Nazis weren't so keen on the Ukrainians:

"We are a master race, which must remember that the lowliest German worker is racially and biologically a thousand times more valuable than the population here." - Erich Koch in 1943.

Erich Koch was "Reichskommissar" for Ukraine 1941 to 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskommissariat_Ukraine

We all make mistakes.

Fortunately not usually as bad as that.

Well, there were various nationalists in South East Asia who thought the Japanese were there to liberate them.

That turned out equally well.

The ones in Vietnam must have been even more disappointed when the returning Allies used surrendered Japanese troops to fight them. I guess they may not have been entirely surprised though.

felix said:

TOPPING said:

felix said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

felix said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?

Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!

I can say what I like thanks, it's a free forum.

Oh indeed so regular it reminds me to pick my nose..

Good luck in your Spanish naturalisation/citizenship application. I'm sure they are crying out for one more arch, snarky Brit over there.

Your sincerity is so touching....

Well if they get to keep you I suppose it's win-win.

Philip_Thompson said:

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England

But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.

It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.

Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

Just think about that.

What other category of MP will they try it on next?

No that's not the basic point.

The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.

The Tories have had ten years to create an English Parliament and solve that problem.

CarlottaVance said:

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

FPT:

DavidL said:

Happened as we feared. A boy who got the third equal top mark in the country in his National 5 in computing last year (98%) has been given a band 2 having got a band 1 in his prelim. Just ridiculous but I am not sure that there is anything we can do since he got an "A".

This will adversely affect his Oxford application. It is bloody unfair.

All to play for! I got in on the strength of my interview (half way through I thought, feck it, I'm not going to get in, so I'll give as good as I get), certainly not my entrance exam results - so with a bit of luck he'll get to interview - then it's up to him. I'd hope this year of all years the Universities will be taking exam awards with a pinch of salt.

Thanks. I have sent that to him. He's pretty gutted at the moment.

You're welcome. Which colleges is he thinking of applying to? In my day the "tutorial system" (a tutor is going to be meeting you weekly, 24 weeks a year, for the next 3 years) played an important part in their selection - they want people who are bright, but also "am I going to enjoy sitting opposite this person for the next three years?" must inform at least part of their decision making process. I also found it helped if the school had previously sent pupils to that college (in my case, a comp. in West Bromwich).

That has been another frustration in that we were going to focus on selecting a college at the open day this year. Oxford, along with pretty much everyone else had a virtual day which didn't really help with that.
David's priority seems to be an oven rather than his tutors but an army marches on its stomach and all that.
Corona virus has been no fun at all for anyone but those in the latter years of their school education have been hit particularly hard.

ManchesterKurt said:

Philip_Thompson said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England

But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.

It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.

Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

Just think about that.

What other category of MP will they try it on next?

No that's not the basic point.

The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.

and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?

So he's going to abolish the Secretary of State for Health etc on a UK level and have an English one chosen by an English Parliament?

Or is it not going to be the same as what Scotland has? More power for Councils is not what the Scottish Parliament has.

No

I thought it would be much more localised from what I have read.

More akin to what you see in other western democracies where the national / federal government plays a much smaller part in decision making.

You'd have things like health managed locally in Greater Manchester, West Midlands etc. with budgets and foreign affairs maintained in Westminster.

Then that's not the same thing whatsoever. Greater Manchester already has a role to play in local healthcare but laws for England are and will be still set on the UK level. Laws in Scotland are set in Holyrood.

Unless the proposal is that the law in Greater Manchester would be different to the law in Merseyside which is different to the law in Lancashire or the law in Cheshire . . . but I somehow doubt that is the proposal.

So absolutely 100% not the same thing. The only way to deal with asymmetric devolution is to make it symmetric. Every single power devolved to Holyrood needs to be controlled by the English and then the WLQ goes away. A bit more Council involvement is not that.

ManchesterKurt said:

Philip_Thompson said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England

But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.

It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.

Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

Just think about that.

What other category of MP will they try it on next?

No that's not the basic point.

The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.

and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?

So he's going to abolish the Secretary of State for Health etc on a UK level and have an English one chosen by an English Parliament?

Or is it not going to be the same as what Scotland has? More power for Councils is not what the Scottish Parliament has.

No

I thought it would be much more localised from what I have read.

More akin to what you see in other western democracies where the national / federal government plays a much smaller part in decision making.

You'd have things like health managed locally in Greater Manchester, West Midlands etc. with budgets and foreign affairs maintained in Westminster.

That sounds horribly inefficient, and largely unwanted.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

felix said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

felix said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?

Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!

I can say what I like thanks, it's a free forum.

Oh indeed so regular it reminds me to pick my nose..

What a weird comment.

It snot that weird.

No_Offence_Alan said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England

But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.

It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.

Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

Just think about that.

What other category of MP will they try it on next?

No that's not the basic point.

The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.

The Tories have had ten years to create an English Parliament and solve that problem.

Or to put it another way, 36 years out of the last 60 to come up with some sort of devolution plan of their own, yet nada, zilch, zero.

ydoethur said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

felix said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

felix said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?

Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!

I can say what I like thanks, it's a free forum.

Oh indeed so regular it reminds me to pick my nose..

What a weird comment.

It snot that weird.

You're nostril jumping on every new topic with a pun are you?

ManchesterKurt said:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/andy-burnham-hits-out-eat-18712634

Andy Burnham not happy with the rich getting cheaper food whilst the poorer suffer.

That's disappointing from him, he's missing the entire point of the scheme which is to protect the FOH staff and chefs in these restaurants, many on minimum wage/NLW. What would he do differently without adding levels of bureaucracy or giving a handout to staff who probably want to work?

ydoethur said:

Good to see Jason Roy is finally showing his full potential.

I don't think Roy deserves any stick for his ODI stuff: he averages over 40.

kjh said:

Even by Trump's standard I was staggered by this clip when I saw it earlier today. Trump really does seem to believe the argument he is putting. It is mind boggling.

I guess it is different things that tell you he is an idiot. A friend of mine who doesn't follow these things too much found the fact that he thought the F35's stealth capability meant it was invisible to the naked eye when next to you a 'slam dunk'.

A fan of the Bond franchise perhaps? Did he not have an invisible car in one particularly silly part?

Stark_Dawning said:

ydoethur said:

Good to see Jason Roy is finally showing his full potential.

I don't think Roy deserves any stick for his ODI stuff: he averages over 40.

I was being sarcastic.

It is puzzling though that he's had such a dismal series. In Tests, no surprise he failed, but in one day stuff he's always been quite reliable.

Carnyx said:

Not surprising - the SNP already have a self-denying ordinance on such votes.

Except they don't

DavidL said:

kjh said:

Even by Trump's standard I was staggered by this clip when I saw it earlier today. Trump really does seem to believe the argument he is putting. It is mind boggling.

I guess it is different things that tell you he is an idiot. A friend of mine who doesn't follow these things too much found the fact that he thought the F35's stealth capability meant it was invisible to the naked eye when next to you a 'slam dunk'.

A fan of the Bond franchise perhaps? Did he not have an invisible car in one particularly silly part?

I don’t remember seeing any invisible car?

IanB2 said:

DavidL said:

kjh said:

Even by Trump's standard I was staggered by this clip when I saw it earlier today. Trump really does seem to believe the argument he is putting. It is mind boggling.

I guess it is different things that tell you he is an idiot. A friend of mine who doesn't follow these things too much found the fact that he thought the F35's stealth capability meant it was invisible to the naked eye when next to you a 'slam dunk'.

A fan of the Bond franchise perhaps? Did he not have an invisible car in one particularly silly part?

I don’t remember seeing any invisible car?

Die Another Day - the worst Bond film in quite a while.

Carnyx said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Philip_Thompson said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England

But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.

It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.

Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

Just think about that.

What other category of MP will they try it on next?

No that's not the basic point.

The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.

and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?

So he's going to abolish the Secretary of State for Health etc on a UK level and have an English one chosen by an English Parliament?

Or is it not going to be the same as what Scotland has? More power for Councils is not what the Scottish Parliament has.

No

I thought it would be much more localised from what I have read.

More akin to what you see in other western democracies where the national / federal government plays a much smaller part in decision making.

You'd have things like health managed locally in Greater Manchester, West Midlands etc. with budgets and foreign affairs maintained in Westminster.

In any case, the basicv point is that the Tory argument is that Westminstert should not be partly controlled by SNP MPs because it is an English Parliament. Yet it is primarily a UK one and SNP MPs are elected to that parliament.

The Tory attitude is that the English bit should have supremacy. How else can it be explained?

I have never said that, just that there should be a English Parliament as well as a Scottish Parliament

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England

But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.

It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.

Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

Just think about that.

What other category of MP will they try it on next?

The problem is that while you, or @Big_G_NorthWales, have the power to vote in an MP who controls health, education etc in England, I don't have that power in England to vote on somebody who controls those matters for you.

Yes, I know that there are indirect impacts, but that's not the point. You don't have to be a rabid English nationalist to see that as an issue.

The correct solution is further devolution to England, but for practical reasons that's hard.

The alternative is for Scottish and Welsh MPs to be very careful about what they vote on and why - for example, not buggering about with fox hunting - so as not to draw too much attention to it. Unfortunately, for their own reasons the SNP have taken exactly the opposite course.

I beg to differ, politely. Barring votes with Barnett consequentials, the SNP already are pretty scrupulous. They do not vote on education in England, for instance. You'd hear screaming from the PB Tories on each and every occasion, as if theiue baw hairs were being indivbidually depilated with pliers. That silence is pretty revealing.

It's the Unionist MPs in Scotland that do. As, infamously, the LD MPs in Scotland did - over student grants.

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Philip_Thompson said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England

But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.

It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.

Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

Just think about that.

What other category of MP will they try it on next?

No that's not the basic point.

The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.

and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?

So he's going to abolish the Secretary of State for Health etc on a UK level and have an English one chosen by an English Parliament?

Or is it not going to be the same as what Scotland has? More power for Councils is not what the Scottish Parliament has.

No

I thought it would be much more localised from what I have read.

More akin to what you see in other western democracies where the national / federal government plays a much smaller part in decision making.

You'd have things like health managed locally in Greater Manchester, West Midlands etc. with budgets and foreign affairs maintained in Westminster.

In any case, the basicv point is that the Tory argument is that Westminstert should not be partly controlled by SNP MPs because it is an English Parliament. Yet it is primarily a UK one and SNP MPs are elected to that parliament.

The Tory attitude is that the English bit should have supremacy. How else can it be explained?

I have never said that, just that there should be a Scottish Parliament as well as an English Parliament

Acknowledged; I was speaking of the Tories in general, as with the Ed Miliband poster.

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England

But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.

It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.

Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

Just think about that.

What other category of MP will they try it on next?

The problem is that while you, or @Big_G_NorthWales, have the power to vote in an MP who controls health, education etc in England, I don't have that power in England to vote on somebody who controls those matters for you.

Yes, I know that there are indirect impacts, but that's not the point. You don't have to be a rabid English nationalist to see that as an issue.

The correct solution is further devolution to England, but for practical reasons that's hard.

The alternative is for Scottish and Welsh MPs to be very careful about what they vote on and why - for example, not buggering about with fox hunting - so as not to draw too much attention to it. Unfortunately, for their own reasons the SNP have taken exactly the opposite course.

I beg to differ, politely. Barring votes with Barnett consequentials, the SNP already are pretty scrupulous. They do not vote on education in England, for instance. You'd hear screaming from the PB Tories on each and every occasion, as if theiue baw hairs were being indivbidually depilated with pliers. That silence is pretty revealing.

It's the Unionist MPs in Scotland that do. As, infamously, the LD MPs in Scotland did - over student grants.

This is what I was thinking of:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fox-hunting-ban-snp-goes-back-on-pledge-not-to-vote-on-matters-that-purely-affect-england-10389077.html

OK, so it was five years ago. But it's exactly the sort of thing that does raise the profile of the two classes of MP.