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  • HYUFD said:

    I have never said that, just that there should be a Scottish Parliament as well as an English Parliament
    My preference would very much be a Scottish one, Welsh one and one for each 3-8m people in the country.

    I'm in Switzerland a country of 8m people in 26 cantons, across the border is Germany there are 84m people with 16 Lander.

    Both models seem to work very well, we could and should attempt to replicate in the UK is we really want to level up the playing field.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,820

    For as long as it is the English Parliament yes the English bit should have supremacy.

    The Scots chose to abandon most of Westminster by setting up Holyrood.
    Oh really? So the Scotland Act wasn't a Westminster act? Mr Blair would be very surprised to hear that. And the arguments over the changes to the Scotland Act ...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,343
    ydoethur said:

    We all make mistakes.

    Fortunately not usually as bad as that.
    We usually think of "USSR Casualties" in WW2 as x 10s of millions, and treat it as a single unit, singularly heroic in support of Stalin.

    It is instructive to think about individual republics.

    Ukraine for example lost 5 million civilians in WW2, on top of the 4 million Stalin had killed by starvation a decade earlier.
  • Carnyx said:

    I beg to differ, politely. Barring votes with Barnett consequentials, the SNP already are pretty scrupulous. They do not vote on education in England, for instance. You'd hear screaming from the PB Tories on each and every occasion, as if theiue baw hairs were being indivbidually depilated with pliers. That silence is pretty revealing.

    It's the Unionist MPs in Scotland that do. As, infamously, the LD MPs in Scotland did - over student grants.
    It shouldn't be a matter of "pretty scrupulous". The Tory MPs do not vote on Scottish laws because they can't, not because of policy.

    Why were the Scottish MPs entitled to block changes to Sunday Trading laws in England?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    And James Vince does what James Vince does best:

    A dreamy, very short innings.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    Its not good enough. Its just an English veto for English laws, but the Secretary of State etc, the budget etc are still controlled by the whole of the UK not England. It allows an English majority to block a law, but does not allow an English majority to pass a law - see for instance Sunday Trading which had an English majority but got blocked because of Scottish MPs.
    To be fair a lot of English Tory MPs also oppose Sunday trading
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    edited August 2020
    MattW said:

    We usually think of "USSR Casualties" in WW2 as x 10s of millions, and treat it as a single unit, singularly heroic in support of Stalin.

    It is instructive to think about individual republics.

    Ukraine for example lost 5 million civilians in WW2, on top of the 4 million Stalin had killed by starvation a decade earlier.
    Don't forget the several million more who died in the famine of 1946-48 as well after Stalin refused food aid from the USA.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,820

    It shouldn't be a matter of "pretty scrupulous". The Tory MPs do not vote on Scottish laws because they can't, not because of policy.

    Why were the Scottish MPs entitled to block changes to Sunday Trading laws in England?
    Common decency, and the cross-border effects. I forget the details, but there was a problem of this kind.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    ydoethur said:

    Don't forget the several million more who died in the famine of 1946-48 as well after Stalin refused food aid from the USA.
    Ukraine was between a rock and a hard place in WW2.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    Pulpstar said:

    Ukraine was between a rock and a hard place in WW2.
    More accurate to say that they were between the hammer and the anvil.
  • Carnyx said:

    Common decency, and the cross-border effects. I forget the details, but there was a problem of this kind.

    Again decency shouldn't be yours to judge. There were no legal cross border effects either, potential knock on consequences but that's true in any change of law. For Scottish laws the English MPs get no say. For English laws the Scottish MPs do. Until that situation is resolved, the Scottish MPs should be treated as second class MPs and subordinate to English MPs. That is the natural consequence of Westminster setting English but not Scottish law.

    Scottish independence is the best fix for that IMO. Or the abolition of Holyrood.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,820

    Its not good enough. Its just an English veto for English laws, but the Secretary of State etc, the budget etc are still controlled by the whole of the UK not England. It allows an English majority to block a law, but does not allow an English majority to pass a law - see for instance Sunday Trading which had an English majority but got blocked because of Scottish MPs.
    Quite right too about the budget, because of the Barnett system - that is the only direct control (barring limited borrowing powers) that Scottish representatives have over their govertnments' finances.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ydoethur said:

    This is what I was thinking of:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fox-hunting-ban-snp-goes-back-on-pledge-not-to-vote-on-matters-that-purely-affect-england-10389077.html

    OK, so it was five years ago. But it's exactly the sort of thing that does raise the profile of the two classes of MP.
    But the SNP didn't vote on that matter.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    Carnyx said:

    Common decency, and the cross-border effects. I forget the details, but there was a problem of this kind.

    ?! Sunday trading was allowed in Scotland. It was a purely English matter the SNP should not have got involved in.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,820
    ydoethur said:

    This is what I was thinking of:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fox-hunting-ban-snp-goes-back-on-pledge-not-to-vote-on-matters-that-purely-affect-england-10389077.html

    OK, so it was five years ago. But it's exactly the sort of thing that does raise the profile of the two classes of MP.
    That long ago? No wonder I can't remember the details. But the Scottish LD etc MPs voting for changes to student funding were far more consequential - and in my view quite outrageous, as it happens.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    Alistair said:

    But the SNP didn't vote on that matter.
    Because their opposition meant there was no point!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited August 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Sturgeon would be utterly heart broken if she had to can Swinney.

    Totally devastated. She would be beside herself with grief.

    Can't begin to imagine the smirk look of abject despair she would have
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Malmesbury, aye. Shame, as Rosamund Pike is rather lovely.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    edited August 2020
    Alistair said:

    Sturgeon would be utterly heart broken if she had to can Swinney.

    Totally devastated. She would be beside herself with grief.
    Is that sarcasm? It isn't easy to tell online.

    Edit - OK, that's now clear!!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ydoethur said:

    Is that sarcasm? It isn't easy to tell online.
    I've edited to make it clearer
  • HYUFD said:

    To be fair a lot of English Tory MPs also oppose Sunday trading
    A majority did not.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    Alistair said:

    I've edited to make it clearer
    I don't know that she wants to lose a second minister in a year for messing with teenagers though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    My preference would very much be a Scottish one, Welsh one and one for each 3-8m people in the country.

    I'm in Switzerland a country of 8m people in 26 cantons, across the border is Germany there are 84m people with 16 Lander.

    Both models seem to work very well, we could and should attempt to replicate in the UK is we really want to level up the playing field.
    The UK is made up of 4 countries, if Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland have their own parliament and assemblies so should England.

    Germany and Switzerland are made up of states not countries.

    You could give more powers to councils in all 4 home nations too
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,820
    Pulpstar said:

    ?! Sunday trading was allowed in Scotland. It was a purely English matter the SNP should not have got involved in.
    I don't think it was ever formally allowed in Scotland so much as never legislated against - no need thanks to huge social pressure from the churches - it only loosened up in the last years of the C20. A nice example of the paradox of assiming the existence or otherwise of a phenomenon from laws for or against it ...

    I have checked, and the reason for the vote on Sunday trading was that cross-border firms were trying to use it as a reason to change pay rates on Sundays and the unions in Scotland (that kind of union, the ones affiliated normally to Labour) asked the SNP to vote against because of that detriment. So it was never a purely English matter.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    HYUFD said:

    The UK is made up of 4 countries, if Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland have their own parliament and assemblies so should England.

    Germany and Switzerland are made up of states not countries.

    You could give more powers to councils in all 4 home nations too
    I think you'll find Germany is an accumulation of many different countries. Bavaria, Baden, Hanover, Prussia...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    Carnyx said:

    I don't think it was ever formally allowed in Scotland so much as never legislated against - no need thanks to huge social pressure from the churches - it only loosened up in the last years of the C20. A nice example of the paradox of assiming the existence or otherwise of a phenomenon from laws for or against it ...

    I have checked, and the reason for the vote on Sunday trading was that cross-border firms were trying to use it as a reason to change pay rates on Sundays and the unions in Scotland (that kind of union, the ones affiliated normally to Labour) asked the SNP to vote against because of that detriment. So it was never a purely English matter.

    The Western Isles still bans Sunday trading completely
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2020
    Carnyx said:

    I don't think it was ever formally allowed in Scotland so much as never legislated against - no need thanks to huge social pressure from the churches - it only loosened up in the last years of the C20. A nice example of the paradox of assiming the existence or otherwise of a phenomenon from laws for or against it ...

    I have checked, and the reason for the vote on Sunday trading was that cross-border firms were trying to use it as a reason to change pay rates on Sundays and the unions in Scotland (that kind of union, the ones affiliated normally to Labour) asked the SNP to vote against because of that detriment. So it was never a purely English matter.

    It was a purely English matter. The law was purely English.

    If unions in Scotland were against a proposed law change in France because it would affect pay rates in Scotland then would that permit Scottish MPs to vote on domestic French law? Of course not. This was domestic English law alone.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,820
    HYUFD said:

    The Western Isles still bans Sunday trading completely
    Not quite. You're thinking of the northern part - Lewis and Harris - not the southern part.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    HYUFD said:

    The Western Isles still bans
    AAAARGH!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,820

    It was a purely English matter. The law was purely English.

    If unions in Scotland were against a proposed law change in France because it would affect pay rates in Scotland then would that permit Scottish MPs to vote on domestic French law? Of course not. This was domestic English law alone.
    The companies were not purely English.

    But if that and the foxhunting is all you can find, it's pretty small beer compared with the injustice over student funding.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    I note that PB is in full Jock-bashing mode. On a “never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake” basis, I’ll pop back when you’ve had your gammon.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718
    Scott_xP said:
    Wilson is a real balloon, you could not find a nastier piece of work.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    ydoethur said:

    I think you'll find Germany is an accumulation of many different countries. Bavaria, Baden, Hanover, Prussia...
    Of those only Bavaria has its own Parliament, Prussia was broken up into most of the North German states, Hanover merged into Lower Saxony, Baden with Wurttemberg
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,820

    I note that PB is in full Jock-bashing mode. On a “never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake” basis, I’ll pop back when you’ve had your gammon.

    Isn't it curious that we have people here advocating the abolition of Holyrood, without a cheep about the fact that this would mean an automatic English majority over very change - or, indeed, none at all - to the Scots legal system? No wonderr it took the reconvention of the parliament in Edinburgh to abolish feudal law in Scotland.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    HYUFD said:

    Of those only Bavaria has its own Parliament, Prussia was broken up into most of the North German states, Hanover merged into Lower Saxony, Baden with Wurttemberg
    I think you'll find that Wales and Scotland didn't have their own parliaments until recently either.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    malcolmg said:

    Wilson is a real balloon, you could not find a nastier piece of work.
    Odd remark. What have you got against balloons? Do they not like turnips?
  • ydoethur said:

    I think you'll find that Wales and Scotland didn't have their own parliaments until recently either.
    Scotland had its own Parliament a long time ago, until they voted to merge with the English Parliament:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Scotland

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215
    Carnyx said:

    Isn't it curious that we have people here advocating the abolition of Holyrood, without a cheep about the fact that this would mean an automatic English majority over very change - or, indeed, none at all - to the Scots legal system? No wonderr it took the reconvention of the parliament in Edinburgh to abolish feudal law in Scotland.
    That was hardly the dramatic step that you are implying. And it was done following the work of the Scottish law Commission which formed the basis of many bills in the old UK Parliament.
    There is no doubt that the Scottish Parliament usually passes more Scottish legislation than we had before (although there have been very extended periods with no new bills in recent years). Its just a pity that the Parliamentary draughtsmen are crap and much of what they produce verging on the incomprehensible.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,787
    Things are starting to get problematic in Florida

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1290645651139829762
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    Alistair said:

    Sturgeon would be utterly heart broken if she had to can Swinney.

    Totally devastated. She would be beside herself with grief.

    Can't begin to imagine the smirk look of abject despair she would have
    I've always quite liked him, his tenure as the cab sec for finance was prudent as they come.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,787
    malcolmg said:

    Wilson is a real balloon, you could not find a nastier piece of work.
    Attacking the player tells me that you know this is going to be a real problem (and it will be, in 1 single move the SQA have screwed up the entire lives of the a lot of Scotland's poorest 17-18 year olds).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    ydoethur said:

    I think you'll find that Wales and Scotland didn't have their own parliaments until recently either.
    They do now unlike England
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2020
    Carnyx said:

    The companies were not purely English.

    But if that and the foxhunting is all you can find, it's pretty small beer compared with the injustice over student funding.

    Companies being multinational does not justify you being able to interfere in the domestic affairs of a foreign country, which for devolved matters is exactly what England is or should be to Scotland.

    Student funding, fox hunting and Sunday trading are three examples so far of the same problem. That the issue hasn't been many more times that is not because Scotland has a self-denying ordinance, it is because the Parliamentary arithmetic means it has been moot normally.

    In the event of a hypothetical Tory English majority but Labour+SNP UK majority that will cease to be the case. Those three examples could spin into hundreds of examples over a five year period.

    That is the problem.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158

    Scotland had its own Parliament a long time ago, until they voted to merge with the English Parliament:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Scotland

    So did Baden!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215
    Cyclefree said:

    I am going to bite on this “less skilled staff” meme. Everyone thinks that holding a plate of food and putting it down on a table is easy and therefore running a cafe or restaurant or pub is easy and unskilled so who cares if such jobs are lost.

    It’s bollocks on stilts. In hospitality, every member of staff - front of house - is on show 100% of the time and every interaction with the public has to be pitch perfect because for the visitor the visit is a special occasion. For kitchen staff every meal, every drink has to be perfect too. Everything needs to be done on time, in a friendly way to make the experience pleasant and memorable and enjoyable. There is no downtime when you can hide in your office and grumble and stay away from clients. There are no calls with nuisance colleagues and clients where you can sound ok while rolling your eyes.

    Training staff to do this well every single day for hours at a time with all sorts of customers, some of whom can be demanding and rude and difficult, is not as easy as it seems.

    And this is just the end result. On top of this you have to manage all the administration, the planning of menus, the ordering, the tax, the VAT, the health and safety and all the other rules, assessing profit margins, working out your offering, keeping existing customers and attracting new ones, identifying new markets, coming up with ideas etc.

    Running any business is bloody hard work. In the last few months daughter has probably learnt more than most people do in some theoretical MBA course. To call this unskilled is ridiculous.

    It is much much harder than it looks to create a cafe or restaurant or pub that really works well - that has that undefinable atmosphere which draws people in and back - and every member of staff plays their part, both individually and as part of a team.

    I have been to lots of cafes in my time. I love the atmosphere and offering of good ones. But there are lots of indifferent ones, a testament to the truism that the real skill is in making something look easier than it is.

    Of course I am not going to pretend that it is like being a lawyer or scientist. But let’s face it, quite a lot of legal work can be pretty routine and unskilled and will be replicated by robots or computers. Making people feel welcomed and special, giving them a good time is also a skill and one that should not be quite so easily dismissed by those who have the luxury of working away from people most of the time.

    Bluntly, life is going to be pretty tough for our children. Any job will be worthwhile and we should perhaps try and instil a culture of trying to do every job, no matter how apparently menial or lowly, as well as possible. Because what is lowly and routine to you may mean a very great deal to the person on the receiving end. Let alone to the person to whom it brings income and the dignity of work.

    Rant over.

    And yes, the Half-price deal is helping. She is fully booked, despite the variable weather here.
    I hesitated when I typed that and am willing to take my bollocking in good grace. You are absolutely right.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215
    eek said:

    Things are starting to get problematic in Florida

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1290645651139829762

    Thank god it's all a hoax. If this was real they would have problems.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    edited August 2020
    DavidL said:

    Thank god it's all a hoax. If this was real they would have problems.
    32.9 is a very low forehead temperature, I'd get the IR thermometer checked.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718

    For as long as it is the English Parliament yes the English bit should have supremacy.

    The Scots chose to abandon most of Westminster by setting up Holyrood.
    Utter bollox ,
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    Pulpstar said:

    32.9 is a very low forehead temperature.
    If it was DJ Trump, I would have assumed it was IQ rather than temperature.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718
    Carnyx said:

    That long ago? No wonder I can't remember the details. But the Scottish LD etc MPs voting for changes to student funding were far more consequential - and in my view quite outrageous, as it happens.
    Yes and that fox hunting one was only done because it had consequences for Scotland.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718
    ydoethur said:

    So did Baden!
    Completely different as you well know
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,383
    Day 2 of half price pizza... and a pizza chain announces a load of restaurant closures.

    Meanwhile the Auckland pizzerias are full of punters paying full whack.

    Kiwi fruit on pizza. Yum!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    edited August 2020
    malcolmg said:

    Yes and that fox hunting one was only done because it had consequences for Scotland.
    No, Malcolm. It would have brought the law in England into line with the law in Scotland.

    The reason that the SNP intended to vote on it was explained by Sturgeon herself:

    https://www.ft.com/content/4ccb187e-a1a1-11e4-b176-00144feab7de

    Ms Sturgeon told the BBC it would be in Scotland’s “enlightened self-interest” to oppose laws that would privatise parts of the English National Health Service, for example, saying privatisation would have a knock-on impact in Scotland.

    “If SNP MPs can be in a position of holding the balance of power at Westminster, we can help to further progressive politics across the UK, as well as in Scotland,” she said.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718
    Alistair said:

    Sturgeon would be utterly heart broken if she had to can Swinney.

    Totally devastated. She would be beside herself with grief.

    Can't begin to imagine the smirk look of abject despair she would have
    He will be going nowhere, he shouldl be sacking the dumb clucks that messed it up.
  • malcolmg said:

    Utter bollox ,
    Its not "bollox", the Scots voted to abandon having Westminster control their Health, Education etc by having those laws set in Holyrood. They should therefore have no role in either setting those laws in Westminster nor in determining which party has the Secretary of State for those issues.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718
    Carnyx said:

    Not quite. You're thinking of the northern part - Lewis and Harris - not the southern part.
    His usual load of tripe re Scotland. You would think having made such a fool of himself over lack of knowledge that he would have learned by now to not try and pontificate when he has no clue what he is talking about.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Cyclefree said:

    I am going to bite on this “less skilled staff” meme. Everyone thinks that holding a plate of food and putting it down on a table is easy and therefore running a cafe or restaurant or pub is easy and unskilled so who cares if such jobs are lost.

    It’s bollocks on stilts. In hospitality, every member of staff - front of house - is on show 100% of the time and every interaction with the public has to be pitch perfect because for the visitor the visit is a special occasion. For kitchen staff every meal, every drink has to be perfect too. Everything needs to be done on time, in a friendly way to make the experience pleasant and memorable and enjoyable. There is no downtime when you can hide in your office and grumble and stay away from clients. There are no calls with nuisance colleagues and clients where you can sound ok while rolling your eyes.

    Training staff to do this well every single day for hours at a time with all sorts of customers, some of whom can be demanding and rude and difficult, is not as easy as it seems.

    And this is just the end result. On top of this you have to manage all the administration, the planning of menus, the ordering, the tax, the VAT, the health and safety and all the other rules, assessing profit margins, working out your offering, keeping existing customers and attracting new ones, identifying new markets, coming up with ideas etc.

    Running any business is bloody hard work. In the last few months daughter has probably learnt more than most people do in some theoretical MBA course. To call this unskilled is ridiculous.

    It is much much harder than it looks to create a cafe or restaurant or pub that really works well - that has that undefinable atmosphere which draws people in and back - and every member of staff plays their part, both individually and as part of a team.

    I have been to lots of cafes in my time. I love the atmosphere and offering of good ones. But there are lots of indifferent ones, a testament to the truism that the real skill is in making something look easier than it is.

    Of course I am not going to pretend that it is like being a lawyer or scientist. But let’s face it, quite a lot of legal work can be pretty routine and unskilled and will be replicated by robots or computers. Making people feel welcomed and special, giving them a good time is also a skill and one that should not be quite so easily dismissed by those who have the luxury of working away from people most of the time.

    Bluntly, life is going to be pretty tough for our children. Any job will be worthwhile and we should perhaps try and instil a culture of trying to do every job, no matter how apparently menial or lowly, as well as possible. Because what is lowly and routine to you may mean a very great deal to the person on the receiving end. Let alone to the person to whom it brings income and the dignity of work.

    Rant over.

    And yes, the Half-price deal is helping. She is fully booked, despite the variable weather here.
    He said, and you quoted at first, "less skilled", not "unskilled". But I get what you mean. I guess it's used as short hand for a job you don't need a degree/formal qualification for?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718
    Carnyx said:

    Common decency, and the cross-border effects. I forget the details, but there was a problem of this kind.

    These erses don't care Carnyx, fact it was down to it having major impacts on Scotland does not penetrate their Little Englander pea rains.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    I don't think the SQA have screwed up.
    Penny to a pound, results would be far more in line with the adjusted grades if full exams had taken place than those handed out by pupil's teachers.

    No wonder we have continual grade inflation if this is the reaction to reality.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    isam said:

    He said, and you quoted at first, "less skilled", not "unskilled". But I get what you mean. I guess it's used as short hand for a job you don't need a degree/formal qualification for?
    Such as being PRime Minister.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    I've always quite liked him, his tenure as the cab sec for finance was prudent as they come.
    Swiney, for me has alsways been summed up by this entry on his Bio
    Leader of the Scottish National Party
    26 September 2000 – 3 September 2004
    Preceded by Alex Salmond
    Succeeded by Alex Salmond


    The 2003 election campaign was diabolical, a shambles.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215
    isam said:

    He said, and you quoted at first, "less skilled", not "unskilled". But I get what you mean. I guess it's used as short hand for a job you don't need a degree/formal qualification for?
    Thanks (and you are right about what I meant) but I have already held my hands up to this one.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the SQA have screwed up.
    Penny to a pound, results would be far more in line with the adjusted grades if full exams had taken place than those handed out by pupil's teachers.

    No wonder we have continual grade inflation if this is the reaction to reality.

    We should know for sure next year, providing we get exams then. If there's a sudden 15% surge in the most deprived quintile's grades (I think that was the effect of the 'predicted' marks ?) then I'll freely admit I was wrong.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718

    Again decency shouldn't be yours to judge. There were no legal cross border effects either, potential knock on consequences but that's true in any change of law. For Scottish laws the English MPs get no say. For English laws the Scottish MPs do. Until that situation is resolved, the Scottish MPs should be treated as second class MPs and subordinate to English MPs. That is the natural consequence of Westminster setting English but not Scottish law.

    Scottish independence is the best fix for that IMO. Or the abolition of Holyrood.
    There were issues that affected Scottish retail laws and trading , it was well justified and SNP offered them a solution if they excluded Scotland but the erses refused. It would have meant Scotland closing shops.
  • malcolmg said:

    These erses don't care Carnyx, fact it was down to it having major impacts on Scotland does not penetrate their Little Englander pea rains.
    Impacting Scotland isn't sufficient. We live in an interconnected world. Scottish law changes can impact on England, even American law changes impact England, our MPs don't get to vote on either Scottish or American laws though.

    Scottish MPs should vote on laws that apply to Scotland. If the law doesn't apply to Scotland then indirectly "impacting" Scotland should be no more sufficient than it is reciprocally.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think the SQA have screwed up.
    Penny to a pound, results would be far more in line with the adjusted grades if full exams had taken place than those handed out by pupil's teachers.

    No wonder we have continual grade inflation if this is the reaction to reality.

    It's also maybe no wonder nobody has confidence in the exam system if the bosses think results should changed by algorithms based on an unsupported piece of research 25 years old rather than, y'know, actual fucking evidence that they were too lazy or stupid to ask for.
  • malcolmg said:

    There were issues that affected Scottish retail laws and trading , it was well justified and SNP offered them a solution if they excluded Scotland but the erses refused. It would have meant Scotland closing shops.
    The law didn't affect Scotland so no it doesn't justify it. If the shoe was on the other foot, if Holyrood was changing a Scottish only law that would affect English retail and trading then would English MPs have got a vote on that? No, of course not.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,067
    isam said:

    He said, and you quoted at first, "less skilled", not "unskilled". But I get what you mean. I guess it's used as short hand for a job you don't need a degree/formal qualification for?
    I wonder what Lewis Hamilton would think of the accusation that his job is "less skilled".
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,359
    eek said:

    Attacking the player tells me that you know this is going to be a real problem (and it will be, in 1 single move the SQA have screwed up the entire lives of the a lot of Scotland's poorest 17-18 year olds).
    Just to confirm, you're in favour of a year-on-year 19.8 point increase in pass rate figures for the 20% of most deprived kids based entirely on teachers' estimates?

    I'm not sure about tinkering about the edges solutions for large structural problems, but in this case I'm for it just to see the raging.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Carnyx said:


    Common decency, and the cross-border effects. I forget the details, but there was a problem of this kind.

    LOL! Wonderful stuff. The sheer chutzpah of SNP hypocrisy is a sight to behold.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited August 2020
    eristdoof said:

    I wonder what Lewis Hamilton would think of the accusation that his job is "less skilled".
    Don't really care! We'll have to wait for someone to make that accusation I suppose
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,343
    A study in whinging people with too much time on their hands:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53648638
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,192

    I'm not sure about tinkering about the edges solutions for large structural problems, but in this case I'm for it just to see the raging.

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1290658451945906179
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    MattW said:

    A study in whinging people with too much time on their hands:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53648638

    PB made it on to the BBC website?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Scott_xP said:
    We need some kind of primer to explain this!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533
    Veep betting: Bass now out at 20. Good time to buy if anyone thinks she hasn't been ruled out over the Scientology and Cuba stuff maybe?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,142
    isam said:
    Boris is so crap he's good?
  • Scott_xP said:
    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives would be under water

    Good poll for Boris to be fair
  • MattW said:

    A study in whinging people with too much time on their hands:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53648638

    Wow! Anyone who looked at that picture and saw something sexual is sick and needs help.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,820
    edited August 2020


    But the

    Companies being multinational does not justify you being able to interfere in the domestic affairs of a foreign country, which for devolved matters is exactly what England is or should be to Scotland.

    Student funding, fox hunting and Sunday trading are three examples so far of the same problem. That the issue hasn't been many more times that is not because Scotland has a self-denying ordinance, it is because the Parliamentary arithmetic means it has been moot normally.

    In the event of a hypothetical Tory English majority but Labour+SNP UK majority that will cease to be the case. Those three examples could spin into hundreds of examples over a five year period.

    That is the problem.
    It was the Unionists themselves that caused the student funding problem. A major vote the SNP abstained on, as they will continue to abstain on truly English only matters.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718

    Its not "bollox", the Scots voted to abandon having Westminster control their Health, Education etc by having those laws set in Holyrood. They should therefore have no role in either setting those laws in Westminster nor in determining which party has the Secretary of State for those issues.
    Rubbish, as long as Westminster tie Scottish spending to being a % of English spending then the decisions have direct and dire consequences for Scotland.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    How have Scottish teachers managed to collectively up the grades by 14% from at least the previous 4 cohorts. Frankly that beggars belief.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215
    Pulpstar said:

    I've always quite liked him, his tenure as the cab sec for finance was prudent as they come.
    He was a much better Finance Secretary than he has been Education Secretary. Education has been one disaster after another since he took over. By no means all his fault but hapless doesn't begin to cover it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    isam said:

    PB made it on to the BBC website?
    Can't be us. They didn't mention the awesome punning.

    I would have suggested Audi were yellow for backing down over bananas.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718

    Impacting Scotland isn't sufficient. We live in an interconnected world. Scottish law changes can impact on England, even American law changes impact England, our MPs don't get to vote on either Scottish or American laws though.

    Scottish MPs should vote on laws that apply to Scotland. If the law doesn't apply to Scotland then indirectly "impacting" Scotland should be no more sufficient than it is reciprocally.
    Now you are into fantasy land
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    isam said:
    Labour are from disadvantaged backgrounds so have been moderated down 25%?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215
    This is getting pretty brutal from England. If Ireland don't get some wickets very soon we are going to be digging out the record books.
  • ydoethur said:

    Can't be us. They didn't mention the awesome punning.

    I would have suggested Audi were yellow for backing down over bananas.
    They're just splitters!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,820

    The law didn't affect Scotland so no it doesn't justify it. If the shoe was on the other foot, if Holyrood was changing a Scottish only law that would affect English retail and trading then would English MPs have got a vote on that? No, of course not.
    I've just explained to him that it did.

  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,067
    ydoethur said:

    I think you'll find Germany is an accumulation of many different countries. Bavaria, Baden, Hanover, Prussia...
    That's not really relevant. If you go back even further "Germany" was the majority of an empire in central Europe.

    Germany is indeed made up of states. But what is the German name for a German state? It is "Land". Bavaria and each of the other 15 states is ein Bundesland ie "a federal country" and Germany- Deutschland is also ein Land ie Country. The German language suffers just as much as English does in terms of the contortions of language needed to define country and nation.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,171
    These figures are not particularly good for the Democrats:

    "2020 vs 2016

    Top Battlegrounds: Biden+2.1 [2020: Dem+5.5, 2016: Dem+3.4]
    RCP National Average: Biden+0.8 [2020: Dem+7.4, 2016: Dem+6.6]
    Fav Ratings: Trump+4.3 [2020: Dem+11.0, 2016: Dem+15.3]"

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com
This discussion has been closed.