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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With 93 days to go Trump is going to have to do better than th

SystemSystem Posts: 11,006
edited August 2020 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With 93 days to go Trump is going to have to do better than this explaining the US’s COVID19 numbers

As the the Daily Beast reports:

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    First.
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    John Swinney and the SQA must resign.
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    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,900

    John Swinney and the SQA must resign.

    Disagree, I think Nabavi has this one correct in the previous thread.

    On topic - When Kentucky is called instantly, but Indiana is not - that's the early warning system the shit has hit the fan for Trump.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,961
    RobD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
    SNP honeymoon over?
  • Options
    RobD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
    Yes
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:


    What was the reason for what seems a special degree of hatred for the Ukrainians?

    It's rather complicated, and absolutely horrific, but basically many Ukrainians sided enthusiastically with the Nazis to save themselves from the Russians, conducting their own atrocities which in some cases even the Nazis thought were over the top. As things developed - badly - the Nazis started rounding up Ukrainians, so it wasn't even successful as a mode of self-preservation. Then as the tide turned the Russians advanced over Ukraine and took a horrendous revenge.

    The whole WWII history of Eastern Europe is full of multi-faceted horrors, in which in wasn't just the Nazis and Soviets who were guilty of war crimes, but is relatively unknown in the West.

    This is an excellent book on the subject:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitlers-Empire-Nazi-Occupied-Europe/dp/0141011920
    The Holdomar was before WWII, not after it. It's the reason the Ukrainians were so keen on the Nazis, whom they saw as liberators.
    Unfortunately the Nazis weren't so keen on the Ukrainians:

    "We are a master race, which must remember that the lowliest German worker is racially and biologically a thousand times more valuable than the population here." - Erich Koch in 1943.

    Erich Koch was "Reichskommissar" for Ukraine 1941 to 1944.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskommissariat_Ukraine
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    Pulpstar said:

    John Swinney and the SQA must resign.

    Disagree, I think Nabavi has this one correct in the previous thread.

    On topic - When Kentucky is called instantly, but Indiana is not - that's the early warning system the shit has hit the fan for Trump.
    Obama won Indiana in 2008 of course
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,201
    edited August 2020
    Sean_F said:


    2. For all their brutality and cruelty, the Soviets never implemented the equivalent of Generalplan Ost, or the Holocaust, on the countries they occupied.

    I think the Poles might bet to differ!

    And then there's the Soviet ethnic cleanising of people like the Crimean Tatars and the Buddhist Kalmyks.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited August 2020

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1290276072328634370?s=20
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    RobD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
    Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
    SNP honeymoon over?
    Scottish Tory surge?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,201
    edited August 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    There is something grotesque about giving China credit for taking people out of poverty when it made them poor in the first place and killed many tens of millions through famine first.


    A similar thing happened with British Rule in India.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:


    What was the reason for what seems a special degree of hatred for the Ukrainians?

    It's rather complicated, and absolutely horrific, but basically many Ukrainians sided enthusiastically with the Nazis to save themselves from the Russians, conducting their own atrocities which in some cases even the Nazis thought were over the top. As things developed - badly - the Nazis started rounding up Ukrainians, so it wasn't even successful as a mode of self-preservation. Then as the tide turned the Russians advanced over Ukraine and took a horrendous revenge.

    The whole WWII history of Eastern Europe is full of multi-faceted horrors, in which in wasn't just the Nazis and Soviets who were guilty of war crimes, but is relatively unknown in the West.

    This is an excellent book on the subject:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitlers-Empire-Nazi-Occupied-Europe/dp/0141011920
    The Holdomar was before WWII, not after it. It's the reason the Ukrainians were so keen on the Nazis, whom they saw as liberators.
    Unfortunately the Nazis weren't so keen on the Ukrainians:

    "We are a master race, which must remember that the lowliest German worker is racially and biologically a thousand times more valuable than the population here." - Erich Koch in 1943.

    Erich Koch was "Reichskommissar" for Ukraine 1941 to 1944.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskommissariat_Ukraine
    We all make mistakes.

    Fortunately not usually as bad as that.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584
    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,711
    I`m not sure about the Eat Out to Help Out thing.

    Just back from Devon. A few observations:

    - We were after a takeaway coffee on the seafront, but ended up sitting in and drinking it as it was half price. Cafe owner tipped us off. Full price if we had walked away with it.

    - In evening we had a meal in a cafe (three of us) and £46 bill became £23

    - In both instances, we would have bought these goods at full price if scheme wasn`t in existence

    - the discounts were applied automatically. We didn`t have to ask for them.

    This is going to cost a fortune and may not flush out as many scared homies as intended. I think the cost will be considerably greater than the benefit.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,572
    FPT:
    DavidL said:

    Happened as we feared. A boy who got the third equal top mark in the country in his National 5 in computing last year (98%) has been given a band 2 having got a band 1 in his prelim. Just ridiculous but I am not sure that there is anything we can do since he got an "A".

    This will adversely affect his Oxford application. It is bloody unfair.

    All to play for! I got in on the strength of my interview (half way through I thought, feck it, I'm not going to get in, so I'll give as good as I get), certainly not my entrance exam results - so with a bit of luck he'll get to interview - then it's up to him. I'd hope this year of all years the Universities will be taking exam awards with a pinch of salt.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,857

    SNP honeymoon over?

    A completely devolved issue, that the SNP have had control over for the entire schooling of this cohort, and have massively fucked up in a hugely public manner.

    Parents being notoriously blaze about their kids future, expect SNP polling leads to widen...
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,220
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:


    What was the reason for what seems a special degree of hatred for the Ukrainians?

    It's rather complicated, and absolutely horrific, but basically many Ukrainians sided enthusiastically with the Nazis to save themselves from the Russians, conducting their own atrocities which in some cases even the Nazis thought were over the top. As things developed - badly - the Nazis started rounding up Ukrainians, so it wasn't even successful as a mode of self-preservation. Then as the tide turned the Russians advanced over Ukraine and took a horrendous revenge.

    The whole WWII history of Eastern Europe is full of multi-faceted horrors, in which in wasn't just the Nazis and Soviets who were guilty of war crimes, but is relatively unknown in the West.

    This is an excellent book on the subject:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitlers-Empire-Nazi-Occupied-Europe/dp/0141011920
    The Holdomar was before WWII, not after it. It's the reason the Ukrainians were so keen on the Nazis, whom they saw as liberators.
    Unfortunately the Nazis weren't so keen on the Ukrainians:

    "We are a master race, which must remember that the lowliest German worker is racially and biologically a thousand times more valuable than the population here." - Erich Koch in 1943.

    Erich Koch was "Reichskommissar" for Ukraine 1941 to 1944.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskommissariat_Ukraine
    We all make mistakes.

    Fortunately not usually as bad as that.
    Well, there were various nationalists in South East Asia who thought the Japanese were there to liberate them.

    That turned out equally well.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    To be fair to Trump even on deaths as a percentage of population the US is only 8th, the UK is 2nd behind Belgium

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • Options

    First.

    Eid Bah Gum!
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,306
    Scott_xP said:

    SNP honeymoon over?

    A completely devolved issue, that the SNP have had control over for the entire schooling of this cohort, and have massively fucked up in a hugely public manner.

    Parents being notoriously blaze about their kids future, expect SNP polling leads to widen...
    blasé - but I agree with the sentiment.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,572

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    I'm astonished it hasn't happened already. Just goes to show how much damage Corbyn did to Brand Labour.

    Thatcher used to get p*ssed off if the Tories weren't behind in the polls early in their term - it just showed they weren't getting the unpopular decisions out of the way.
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,573
    Even by Trump's standard I was staggered by this clip when I saw it earlier today. Trump really does seem to believe the argument he is putting. It is mind boggling.

    I guess it is different things that tell you he is an idiot. A friend of mine who doesn't follow these things too much found the fact that he thought the F35's stealth capability meant it was invisible to the naked eye when next to you a 'slam dunk'.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,961
    Scott_xP said:

    SNP honeymoon over?

    A completely devolved issue, that the SNP have had control over for the entire schooling of this cohort, and have massively fucked up in a hugely public manner.

    Parents being notoriously blaze about their kids future, expect SNP polling leads to widen...
    I am confident that if it had come to pass that you would be cheering a 19.8 point increase in pass rate figures based on teachers' estimates to the rafters, and the term entirely unjustified grade inflation would be nowhere to be seen.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,306
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
  • Options
    felix said:

    RobD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
    Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!
    I can say what I like thanks, it's a free forum.
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    kjh said:

    Even by Trump's standard I was staggered by this clip when I saw it earlier today. Trump really does seem to believe the argument he is putting. It is mind boggling.

    I guess it is different things that tell you he is an idiot. A friend of mine who doesn't follow these things too much found the fact that he thought the F35's stealth capability meant it was invisible to the naked eye when next to you a 'slam dunk'.

    He's addressing idiots, so the simpler he sounds the better.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    Stocky said:

    I`m not sure about the Eat Out to Help Out thing.

    Just back from Devon. A few observations:

    - We were after a takeaway coffee on the seafront, but ended up sitting in and drinking it as it was half price. Cafe owner tipped us off. Full price if we had walked away with it.

    - In evening we had a meal in a cafe (three of us) and £46 bill became £23

    - In both instances, we would have bought these goods at full price if scheme wasn`t in existence

    - the discounts were applied automatically. We didn`t have to ask for them.

    This is going to cost a fortune and may not flush out as many scared homies as intended. I think the cost will be considerably greater than the benefit.

    From my experience last night I'd say the opposite, there was barely a table free and we went to the same place the week before and there were almost no people there, just the two of us. The discount is definitely convincing people to go out and anecdotally restaurant owners are saying they have seen a surge in table bookings for the Monday-Wednesday period. These are people who may have been comfortable to go anyway, but it's given a needed push to get them in the door and spending money in a sector that badly needs it.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Happened as we feared. A boy who got the third equal top mark in the country in his National 5 in computing last year (98%) has been given a band 2 having got a band 1 in his prelim. Just ridiculous but I am not sure that there is anything we can do since he got an "A".

    This will adversely affect his Oxford application. It is bloody unfair.

    All to play for! I got in on the strength of my interview (half way through I thought, feck it, I'm not going to get in, so I'll give as good as I get), certainly not my entrance exam results - so with a bit of luck he'll get to interview - then it's up to him. I'd hope this year of all years the Universities will be taking exam awards with a pinch of salt.
    Thanks. I have sent that to him. He's pretty gutted at the moment.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,857

    I am confident that if it had come to pass that you would be cheering a 19.8 point increase in pass rate figures based on teachers' estimates to the rafters, and the term entirely unjustified grade inflation would be nowhere to be seen.

    Why would I cheer a different fuckup, just because they didn't try and "fix" it with an even bigger one?
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    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    I think the SNP have pretty much caught the Lib Dems already.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584
    edited August 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    I am confident that if it had come to pass that you would be cheering a 19.8 point increase in pass rate figures based on teachers' estimates to the rafters, and the term entirely unjustified grade inflation would be nowhere to be seen.

    Why would I cheer a different fuckup, just because they didn't try and "fix" it with an even bigger one?
    How is it a messup? Mr Nabavi has argued cogently that [edit] the result is pretty much what usually happens every year.
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,573
    HYUFD said:

    To be fair to Trump even on deaths as a percentage of population the US is only 8th, the UK is 2nd behind Belgium

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Yes we haven't anything to shout about, but at least we have done something about it. The US is steaming ahead with its case and death numbers.

    He even talked about the spike in Australia in an earlier clip as a comparison. For crying out loud the entire Australian figures for cases and deaths are 1/3 and 1/5 of the USA for just 1 day!!!!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No one is trying to deny MPs that right. They are just pointing out the consequences of a Labour minority government propped up by the SNP.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
    Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!
    I can say what I like thanks, it's a free forum.
    Oh indeed so regular it reminds me to pick my nose..
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    FPT:
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Happened as we feared. A boy who got the third equal top mark in the country in his National 5 in computing last year (98%) has been given a band 2 having got a band 1 in his prelim. Just ridiculous but I am not sure that there is anything we can do since he got an "A".

    This will adversely affect his Oxford application. It is bloody unfair.

    Very sorry to hear this David. Can you appeal?
    Don't think so. You can only appeal classifications not bands.
    That sucks.

    Have you had a chance to discuss it with his college yet? (Assuming he isn't applying next year.)
    It will be next year that he will be applying.
    Then that's unfortunate. I'm guessing this year they might have stretched a point. NExt year, possibly not.

    Are resits allowed in Scotland?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,220
    edited August 2020
    NHS Hospital numbers out

    Last 3-5 days are subject to revision. This means that anyone who tries to use the last 3-5 days to prove a point is a self-diagnosed idiot.

    Headline - 6
    7 days - 6
    Yesterday - 2

    image
    image
    image
    image
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125
    MaxPB said:

    Stocky said:

    I`m not sure about the Eat Out to Help Out thing.

    Just back from Devon. A few observations:

    - We were after a takeaway coffee on the seafront, but ended up sitting in and drinking it as it was half price. Cafe owner tipped us off. Full price if we had walked away with it.

    - In evening we had a meal in a cafe (three of us) and £46 bill became £23

    - In both instances, we would have bought these goods at full price if scheme wasn`t in existence

    - the discounts were applied automatically. We didn`t have to ask for them.

    This is going to cost a fortune and may not flush out as many scared homies as intended. I think the cost will be considerably greater than the benefit.

    From my experience last night I'd say the opposite, there was barely a table free and we went to the same place the week before and there were almost no people there, just the two of us. The discount is definitely convincing people to go out and anecdotally restaurant owners are saying they have seen a surge in table bookings for the Monday-Wednesday period. These are people who may have been comfortable to go anyway, but it's given a needed push to get them in the door and spending money in a sector that badly needs it.
    We went out for tea at the local pub last night. It was very busy too. The food bill was cut by 50% and more than reasonable! I can see it getting us out a few more times in the coming month than I might have done otherwise.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Any update on a revision to the PHE methodology?
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,711
    MaxPB said:

    Stocky said:

    I`m not sure about the Eat Out to Help Out thing.

    Just back from Devon. A few observations:

    - We were after a takeaway coffee on the seafront, but ended up sitting in and drinking it as it was half price. Cafe owner tipped us off. Full price if we had walked away with it.

    - In evening we had a meal in a cafe (three of us) and £46 bill became £23

    - In both instances, we would have bought these goods at full price if scheme wasn`t in existence

    - the discounts were applied automatically. We didn`t have to ask for them.

    This is going to cost a fortune and may not flush out as many scared homies as intended. I think the cost will be considerably greater than the benefit.

    From my experience last night I'd say the opposite, there was barely a table free and we went to the same place the week before and there were almost no people there, just the two of us. The discount is definitely convincing people to go out and anecdotally restaurant owners are saying they have seen a surge in table bookings for the Monday-Wednesday period. These are people who may have been comfortable to go anyway, but it's given a needed push to get them in the door and spending money in a sector that badly needs it.
    That`s good. The sector badly needs support, that`s for sure.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,232
    felix said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
    Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!
    I can say what I like thanks, it's a free forum.
    Oh indeed so regular it reminds me to pick my nose..
    Good luck in your Spanish naturalisation/citizenship application. I'm sure they are crying out for one more arch, snarky Brit over there.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,220
    RobD said:

    Any update on a revision to the PHE methodology?

    They are thinking about it.

    I think this means that their plan (at the senior level) is to hope the issue goes away.
  • Options
    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/andy-burnham-hits-out-eat-18712634

    Andy Burnham not happy with the rich getting cheaper food whilst the poorer suffer.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    I'm astonished it hasn't happened already. Just goes to show how much damage Corbyn did to Brand Labour.

    Thatcher used to get p*ssed off if the Tories weren't behind in the polls early in their term - it just showed they weren't getting the unpopular decisions out of the way.
    Unpopular decisions like killing off a tranche of pensioners?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    edited August 2020
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    The problem is that while you, or @Big_G_NorthWales, have the power to vote in an MP who controls health, education etc in England, I don't have that power in England to vote on somebody who controls those matters for you.

    Yes, I know that there are indirect impacts, but that's not the point. You don't have to be a rabid English nationalist to see that as an issue.

    The correct solution is further devolution to England, but for practical reasons that's hard.

    The alternative is for Scottish and Welsh MPs to be very careful about what they vote on and why - for example, not buggering about with fox hunting - so as not to draw too much attention to it. Unfortunately, for their own reasons the SNP have taken exactly the opposite course.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1290276072328634370?s=20
    Old boundaries....
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125
    ydoethur said:

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Happened as we feared. A boy who got the third equal top mark in the country in his National 5 in computing last year (98%) has been given a band 2 having got a band 1 in his prelim. Just ridiculous but I am not sure that there is anything we can do since he got an "A".

    This will adversely affect his Oxford application. It is bloody unfair.

    Very sorry to hear this David. Can you appeal?
    Don't think so. You can only appeal classifications not bands.
    That sucks.

    Have you had a chance to discuss it with his college yet? (Assuming he isn't applying next year.)
    It will be next year that he will be applying.
    Then that's unfortunate. I'm guessing this year they might have stretched a point. NExt year, possibly not.

    Are resits allowed in Scotland?
    No. I have read that English students will have the option of sitting the exam at the end of the summer but there are no such opportunities in Scotland. The Ministry knows best, who can doubt it?
    This coming year he will be doing advanced highers in Economics, maths, statistics and modern studies. He had to drop computing to get an essay based subject for PPE.
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,711
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Stocky said:

    I`m not sure about the Eat Out to Help Out thing.

    Just back from Devon. A few observations:

    - We were after a takeaway coffee on the seafront, but ended up sitting in and drinking it as it was half price. Cafe owner tipped us off. Full price if we had walked away with it.

    - In evening we had a meal in a cafe (three of us) and £46 bill became £23

    - In both instances, we would have bought these goods at full price if scheme wasn`t in existence

    - the discounts were applied automatically. We didn`t have to ask for them.

    This is going to cost a fortune and may not flush out as many scared homies as intended. I think the cost will be considerably greater than the benefit.

    From my experience last night I'd say the opposite, there was barely a table free and we went to the same place the week before and there were almost no people there, just the two of us. The discount is definitely convincing people to go out and anecdotally restaurant owners are saying they have seen a surge in table bookings for the Monday-Wednesday period. These are people who may have been comfortable to go anyway, but it's given a needed push to get them in the door and spending money in a sector that badly needs it.
    We went out for tea at the local pub last night. It was very busy too. The food bill was cut by 50% and more than reasonable! I can see it getting us out a few more times in the coming month than I might have done otherwise.
    Trouble is, from the government`s point of view, they`ll end up getting criticism even though it is their scheme

    It`s for August only and I`ll bet that a few days prior to its end Starmer will call for it to be extended. If it is he`ll claim it`s down to his pressure and if it isn`t he`ll criticise the governement for "not supporting a struggling sector and withdrawing vital support". I can see it now.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,961
    Scott_xP said:

    I am confident that if it had come to pass that you would be cheering a 19.8 point increase in pass rate figures based on teachers' estimates to the rafters, and the term entirely unjustified grade inflation would be nowhere to be seen.

    Why would I cheer a different fuckup, just because they didn't try and "fix" it with an even bigger one?
    Hey, sorry if my crude sarcasm passed you by. What I meant was that you and people like you would be whining at whatever the results were, therefore rendering your criticism entirely impotent for the umpteenth time.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,572
    DavidL said:

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Happened as we feared. A boy who got the third equal top mark in the country in his National 5 in computing last year (98%) has been given a band 2 having got a band 1 in his prelim. Just ridiculous but I am not sure that there is anything we can do since he got an "A".

    This will adversely affect his Oxford application. It is bloody unfair.

    All to play for! I got in on the strength of my interview (half way through I thought, feck it, I'm not going to get in, so I'll give as good as I get), certainly not my entrance exam results - so with a bit of luck he'll get to interview - then it's up to him. I'd hope this year of all years the Universities will be taking exam awards with a pinch of salt.
    Thanks. I have sent that to him. He's pretty gutted at the moment.
    You're welcome. Which colleges is he thinking of applying to? In my day the "tutorial system" (a tutor is going to be meeting you weekly, 24 weeks a year, for the next 3 years) played an important part in their selection - they want people who are bright, but also "am I going to enjoy sitting opposite this person for the next three years?" must inform at least part of their decision making process. I also found it helped if the school had previously sent pupils to that college (in my case, a comp. in West Bromwich).
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
    Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!
    I can say what I like thanks, it's a free forum.
    Oh indeed so regular it reminds me to pick my nose..
    Good luck in your Spanish naturalisation/citizenship application. I'm sure they are crying out for one more arch, snarky Brit over there.
    Your sincerity is so touching....
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Happened as we feared. A boy who got the third equal top mark in the country in his National 5 in computing last year (98%) has been given a band 2 having got a band 1 in his prelim. Just ridiculous but I am not sure that there is anything we can do since he got an "A".

    This will adversely affect his Oxford application. It is bloody unfair.

    Very sorry to hear this David. Can you appeal?
    Don't think so. You can only appeal classifications not bands.
    That sucks.

    Have you had a chance to discuss it with his college yet? (Assuming he isn't applying next year.)
    It will be next year that he will be applying.
    Then that's unfortunate. I'm guessing this year they might have stretched a point. NExt year, possibly not.

    Are resits allowed in Scotland?
    No. I have read that English students will have the option of sitting the exam at the end of the summer but there are no such opportunities in Scotland. The Ministry knows best, who can doubt it?
    This coming year he will be doing advanced highers in Economics, maths, statistics and modern studies. He had to drop computing to get an essay based subject for PPE.
    Well, that's doubly absurd. And whether people agree with the regradings or not, that inability to resit is ridiculous, was always going to be ridiculous and certainly should be a reason for a complete closure of the SQA. How can anyone have confidence in them after such a shambles?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,961

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:


    What was the reason for what seems a special degree of hatred for the Ukrainians?

    It's rather complicated, and absolutely horrific, but basically many Ukrainians sided enthusiastically with the Nazis to save themselves from the Russians, conducting their own atrocities which in some cases even the Nazis thought were over the top. As things developed - badly - the Nazis started rounding up Ukrainians, so it wasn't even successful as a mode of self-preservation. Then as the tide turned the Russians advanced over Ukraine and took a horrendous revenge.

    The whole WWII history of Eastern Europe is full of multi-faceted horrors, in which in wasn't just the Nazis and Soviets who were guilty of war crimes, but is relatively unknown in the West.

    This is an excellent book on the subject:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitlers-Empire-Nazi-Occupied-Europe/dp/0141011920
    The Holdomar was before WWII, not after it. It's the reason the Ukrainians were so keen on the Nazis, whom they saw as liberators.
    Unfortunately the Nazis weren't so keen on the Ukrainians:

    "We are a master race, which must remember that the lowliest German worker is racially and biologically a thousand times more valuable than the population here." - Erich Koch in 1943.

    Erich Koch was "Reichskommissar" for Ukraine 1941 to 1944.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskommissariat_Ukraine
    We all make mistakes.

    Fortunately not usually as bad as that.
    Well, there were various nationalists in South East Asia who thought the Japanese were there to liberate them.

    That turned out equally well.
    The ones in Vietnam must have been even more disappointed when the returning Allies used surrendered Japanese troops to fight them. I guess they may not have been entirely surprised though.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?
    So he's going to abolish the Secretary of State for Health etc on a UK level and have an English one chosen by an English Parliament?

    Or is it not going to be the same as what Scotland has? More power for Councils is not what the Scottish Parliament has.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,232
    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
    Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!
    I can say what I like thanks, it's a free forum.
    Oh indeed so regular it reminds me to pick my nose..
    Good luck in your Spanish naturalisation/citizenship application. I'm sure they are crying out for one more arch, snarky Brit over there.
    Your sincerity is so touching....
    Well if they get to keep you I suppose it's win-win.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    edited August 2020

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?
    Good for him, if he can find the way.

    The obvious way - and it is the obvious way - is to devolve power directly to the main metropolitan areas and then have an English parliament over the rest. That would solve the Prussian problem at a stroke while avoiding the 'Balkanisation' argument. And London, to take the most obvious example, is far larger and wealthier than either Scotland or Wales. The West Midlands, Merseyside, Cleveland, West Yorkshire etc all added together would be a big counterweight to an English parliament in say, Stafford or Derby.

    But, it has always had its opponents and critics. So it's unlikely to happen. Meanwhile England as a single block is far to big to make asymmetric devolution work.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    The Tories have had ten years to create an English Parliament and solve that problem.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?
    So he's going to abolish the Secretary of State for Health etc on a UK level and have an English one chosen by an English Parliament?

    Or is it not going to be the same as what Scotland has? More power for Councils is not what the Scottish Parliament has.
    No

    I thought it would be much more localised from what I have read.

    More akin to what you see in other western democracies where the national / federal government plays a much smaller part in decision making.

    You'd have things like health managed locally in Greater Manchester, West Midlands etc. with budgets and foreign affairs maintained in Westminster.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125

    DavidL said:

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Happened as we feared. A boy who got the third equal top mark in the country in his National 5 in computing last year (98%) has been given a band 2 having got a band 1 in his prelim. Just ridiculous but I am not sure that there is anything we can do since he got an "A".

    This will adversely affect his Oxford application. It is bloody unfair.

    All to play for! I got in on the strength of my interview (half way through I thought, feck it, I'm not going to get in, so I'll give as good as I get), certainly not my entrance exam results - so with a bit of luck he'll get to interview - then it's up to him. I'd hope this year of all years the Universities will be taking exam awards with a pinch of salt.
    Thanks. I have sent that to him. He's pretty gutted at the moment.
    You're welcome. Which colleges is he thinking of applying to? In my day the "tutorial system" (a tutor is going to be meeting you weekly, 24 weeks a year, for the next 3 years) played an important part in their selection - they want people who are bright, but also "am I going to enjoy sitting opposite this person for the next three years?" must inform at least part of their decision making process. I also found it helped if the school had previously sent pupils to that college (in my case, a comp. in West Bromwich).
    That has been another frustration in that we were going to focus on selecting a college at the open day this year. Oxford, along with pretty much everyone else had a virtual day which didn't really help with that.
    David's priority seems to be an oven rather than his tutors but an army marches on its stomach and all that.
    Corona virus has been no fun at all for anyone but those in the latter years of their school education have been hit particularly hard.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Good to see Jason Roy is finally showing his full potential.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?
    So he's going to abolish the Secretary of State for Health etc on a UK level and have an English one chosen by an English Parliament?

    Or is it not going to be the same as what Scotland has? More power for Councils is not what the Scottish Parliament has.
    No

    I thought it would be much more localised from what I have read.

    More akin to what you see in other western democracies where the national / federal government plays a much smaller part in decision making.

    You'd have things like health managed locally in Greater Manchester, West Midlands etc. with budgets and foreign affairs maintained in Westminster.
    Then that's not the same thing whatsoever. Greater Manchester already has a role to play in local healthcare but laws for England are and will be still set on the UK level. Laws in Scotland are set in Holyrood.

    Unless the proposal is that the law in Greater Manchester would be different to the law in Merseyside which is different to the law in Lancashire or the law in Cheshire . . . but I somehow doubt that is the proposal.

    So absolutely 100% not the same thing. The only way to deal with asymmetric devolution is to make it symmetric. Every single power devolved to Holyrood needs to be controlled by the English and then the WLQ goes away. A bit more Council involvement is not that.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,388
    edited August 2020
    Rishi-on-a-Dishy Report.

    About 45 cars in the car park at my local "Probably the Best Pubs in the World" pleasant eating pub for the 2pm sitting. That is busy even with tables about 20% fewer. Somewhat reduced menu. Usual beers - Abbott, Landlord and several others. They say they have been busy throughout opening today - moreso than this time last year.

    Staff wearing face visors, like the Urban Spaceman.

    Joy of joys - not enough time to fashion the lemon into shapes impossible to squeeze. Just wedges.

    Hoping that Little-Miss-Cyclefree is doing as well.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?
    So he's going to abolish the Secretary of State for Health etc on a UK level and have an English one chosen by an English Parliament?

    Or is it not going to be the same as what Scotland has? More power for Councils is not what the Scottish Parliament has.
    No

    I thought it would be much more localised from what I have read.

    More akin to what you see in other western democracies where the national / federal government plays a much smaller part in decision making.

    You'd have things like health managed locally in Greater Manchester, West Midlands etc. with budgets and foreign affairs maintained in Westminster.
    That sounds horribly inefficient, and largely unwanted.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125
    Stocky said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Stocky said:

    I`m not sure about the Eat Out to Help Out thing.

    Just back from Devon. A few observations:

    - We were after a takeaway coffee on the seafront, but ended up sitting in and drinking it as it was half price. Cafe owner tipped us off. Full price if we had walked away with it.

    - In evening we had a meal in a cafe (three of us) and £46 bill became £23

    - In both instances, we would have bought these goods at full price if scheme wasn`t in existence

    - the discounts were applied automatically. We didn`t have to ask for them.

    This is going to cost a fortune and may not flush out as many scared homies as intended. I think the cost will be considerably greater than the benefit.

    From my experience last night I'd say the opposite, there was barely a table free and we went to the same place the week before and there were almost no people there, just the two of us. The discount is definitely convincing people to go out and anecdotally restaurant owners are saying they have seen a surge in table bookings for the Monday-Wednesday period. These are people who may have been comfortable to go anyway, but it's given a needed push to get them in the door and spending money in a sector that badly needs it.
    We went out for tea at the local pub last night. It was very busy too. The food bill was cut by 50% and more than reasonable! I can see it getting us out a few more times in the coming month than I might have done otherwise.
    Trouble is, from the government`s point of view, they`ll end up getting criticism even though it is their scheme

    It`s for August only and I`ll bet that a few days prior to its end Starmer will call for it to be extended. If it is he`ll claim it`s down to his pressure and if it isn`t he`ll criticise the governement for "not supporting a struggling sector and withdrawing vital support". I can see it now.
    I don't think that we need a crystal ball for that one. Just like the rather absurd idea that the furlough scheme can be continued which we have already seen. The whole sector is a big employer of less skilled staff and the employment consequences of its inevitable contraction will be significant unfortunately.
  • Options
    felix said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
    Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!
    I can say what I like thanks, it's a free forum.
    Oh indeed so regular it reminds me to pick my nose..
    What a weird comment.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Thank goodness we have that paragon of prolific solidity who is JAmes Vince.

    And thank goodness Gloucestershire have their own answer in Jack Taylor...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    felix said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
    Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!
    I can say what I like thanks, it's a free forum.
    Oh indeed so regular it reminds me to pick my nose..
    What a weird comment.
    It snot that weird.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125
    ydoethur said:

    Good to see Jason Roy is finally showing his full potential.

    Don't worry Vince is still there. What could go wrong?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,961

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    The Tories have had ten years to create an English Parliament and solve that problem.
    Or to put it another way, 36 years out of the last 60 to come up with some sort of devolution plan of their own, yet nada, zilch, zero.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Good to see Jason Roy is finally showing his full potential.

    Don't worry Vince is still there. What could go wrong?
    I can't say, the character limit's too short.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,306
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
    Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!
    I can say what I like thanks, it's a free forum.
    Oh indeed so regular it reminds me to pick my nose..
    What a weird comment.
    It snot that weird.
    You're nostril jumping on every new topic with a pun are you?
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    The Tories have had ten years to create an English Parliament and solve that problem.
    Or to put it another way, 36 years out of the last 60 to come up with some sort of devolution plan of their own, yet nada, zilch, zero.
    The Tories introduced EVFEL, which has been the dog that didn't bark so far
  • Options
    RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/andy-burnham-hits-out-eat-18712634

    Andy Burnham not happy with the rich getting cheaper food whilst the poorer suffer.

    That's disappointing from him, he's missing the entire point of the scheme which is to protect the FOH staff and chefs in these restaurants, many on minimum wage/NLW. What would he do differently without adding levels of bureaucracy or giving a handout to staff who probably want to work?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Does saying something a thousand times make it more likely to happen?
    Nor does it make it remotely 'on topic'. Obsessive or what? Those of us slightly longer in the tooth have been through this so many times. Yaaawwwnnnn!
    I can say what I like thanks, it's a free forum.
    Oh indeed so regular it reminds me to pick my nose..
    What a weird comment.
    It snot that weird.
    You're nostril jumping on every new topic with a pun are you?
    You know me. Give me a chance and I will lung for it.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,287
    ydoethur said:

    Good to see Jason Roy is finally showing his full potential.

    I don't think Roy deserves any stick for his ODI stuff: he averages over 40.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,857

    What I meant was that you and people like you would be whining at whatever the results were

    And Zoomers like you are cheering an entire generation of kids failed by your Petty Nationalist ideology.

    plus ca change...
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125
    kjh said:

    Even by Trump's standard I was staggered by this clip when I saw it earlier today. Trump really does seem to believe the argument he is putting. It is mind boggling.

    I guess it is different things that tell you he is an idiot. A friend of mine who doesn't follow these things too much found the fact that he thought the F35's stealth capability meant it was invisible to the naked eye when next to you a 'slam dunk'.

    A fan of the Bond franchise perhaps? Did he not have an invisible car in one particularly silly part?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    The Tories have had ten years to create an English Parliament and solve that problem.
    Or to put it another way, 36 years out of the last 60 to come up with some sort of devolution plan of their own, yet nada, zilch, zero.
    The Tories introduced EVFEL, which has been the dog that didn't bark so far
    Not surprising - the SNP already have a self-denying ordinance on such votes. And for much of the time we had a LD-Tory coalition, and then after that mostly Tory MPs other than the SNP.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    ydoethur said:

    Good to see Jason Roy is finally showing his full potential.

    I don't think Roy deserves any stick for his ODI stuff: he averages over 40.
    I was being sarcastic.

    It is puzzling though that he's had such a dismal series. In Tests, no surprise he failed, but in one day stuff he's always been quite reliable.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Oi, Gareth Roderick.

    You're not joining Worcestershire until NEXT season.

    You shouldn't be giving away your wicket when we're fighting to save the match.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,857
    Carnyx said:

    Not surprising - the SNP already have a self-denying ordinance on such votes.

    Except they don't
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?
    So he's going to abolish the Secretary of State for Health etc on a UK level and have an English one chosen by an English Parliament?

    Or is it not going to be the same as what Scotland has? More power for Councils is not what the Scottish Parliament has.
    No

    I thought it would be much more localised from what I have read.

    More akin to what you see in other western democracies where the national / federal government plays a much smaller part in decision making.

    You'd have things like health managed locally in Greater Manchester, West Midlands etc. with budgets and foreign affairs maintained in Westminster.
    In any case, the basicv point is that the Tory argument is that Westminstert should not be partly controlled by SNP MPs because it is an English Parliament. Yet it is primarily a UK one and SNP MPs are elected to that parliament.

    The Tory attitude is that the English bit should have supremacy. How else can it be explained?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,216
    DavidL said:

    kjh said:

    Even by Trump's standard I was staggered by this clip when I saw it earlier today. Trump really does seem to believe the argument he is putting. It is mind boggling.

    I guess it is different things that tell you he is an idiot. A friend of mine who doesn't follow these things too much found the fact that he thought the F35's stealth capability meant it was invisible to the naked eye when next to you a 'slam dunk'.

    A fan of the Bond franchise perhaps? Did he not have an invisible car in one particularly silly part?
    I don’t remember seeing any invisible car?
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    The Tories have had ten years to create an English Parliament and solve that problem.
    Or to put it another way, 36 years out of the last 60 to come up with some sort of devolution plan of their own, yet nada, zilch, zero.
    The Tories introduced EVFEL, which has been the dog that didn't bark so far
    Its not good enough. Its just an English veto for English laws, but the Secretary of State etc, the budget etc are still controlled by the whole of the UK not England. It allows an English majority to block a law, but does not allow an English majority to pass a law - see for instance Sunday Trading which had an English majority but got blocked because of Scottish MPs.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,220
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    kjh said:

    Even by Trump's standard I was staggered by this clip when I saw it earlier today. Trump really does seem to believe the argument he is putting. It is mind boggling.

    I guess it is different things that tell you he is an idiot. A friend of mine who doesn't follow these things too much found the fact that he thought the F35's stealth capability meant it was invisible to the naked eye when next to you a 'slam dunk'.

    A fan of the Bond franchise perhaps? Did he not have an invisible car in one particularly silly part?
    I don’t remember seeing any invisible car?
    Die Another Day - the worst Bond film in quite a while.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?
    So he's going to abolish the Secretary of State for Health etc on a UK level and have an English one chosen by an English Parliament?

    Or is it not going to be the same as what Scotland has? More power for Councils is not what the Scottish Parliament has.
    No

    I thought it would be much more localised from what I have read.

    More akin to what you see in other western democracies where the national / federal government plays a much smaller part in decision making.

    You'd have things like health managed locally in Greater Manchester, West Midlands etc. with budgets and foreign affairs maintained in Westminster.
    In any case, the basicv point is that the Tory argument is that Westminstert should not be partly controlled by SNP MPs because it is an English Parliament. Yet it is primarily a UK one and SNP MPs are elected to that parliament.

    The Tory attitude is that the English bit should have supremacy. How else can it be explained?
    For as long as it is the English Parliament yes the English bit should have supremacy.

    The Scots chose to abandon most of Westminster by setting up Holyrood.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited August 2020
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?
    So he's going to abolish the Secretary of State for Health etc on a UK level and have an English one chosen by an English Parliament?

    Or is it not going to be the same as what Scotland has? More power for Councils is not what the Scottish Parliament has.
    No

    I thought it would be much more localised from what I have read.

    More akin to what you see in other western democracies where the national / federal government plays a much smaller part in decision making.

    You'd have things like health managed locally in Greater Manchester, West Midlands etc. with budgets and foreign affairs maintained in Westminster.
    In any case, the basicv point is that the Tory argument is that Westminstert should not be partly controlled by SNP MPs because it is an English Parliament. Yet it is primarily a UK one and SNP MPs are elected to that parliament.

    The Tory attitude is that the English bit should have supremacy. How else can it be explained?
    I have never said that, just that there should be a English Parliament as well as a Scottish Parliament
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1290276072328634370?s=20
    Old boundaries....
    UNS would mean 46 Labour gains. New boundaries unlikely to make much difference this time.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    The problem is that while you, or @Big_G_NorthWales, have the power to vote in an MP who controls health, education etc in England, I don't have that power in England to vote on somebody who controls those matters for you.

    Yes, I know that there are indirect impacts, but that's not the point. You don't have to be a rabid English nationalist to see that as an issue.

    The correct solution is further devolution to England, but for practical reasons that's hard.

    The alternative is for Scottish and Welsh MPs to be very careful about what they vote on and why - for example, not buggering about with fox hunting - so as not to draw too much attention to it. Unfortunately, for their own reasons the SNP have taken exactly the opposite course.
    I beg to differ, politely. Barring votes with Barnett consequentials, the SNP already are pretty scrupulous. They do not vote on education in England, for instance. You'd hear screaming from the PB Tories on each and every occasion, as if theiue baw hairs were being indivbidually depilated with pliers. That silence is pretty revealing.

    It's the Unionist MPs in Scotland that do. As, infamously, the LD MPs in Scotland did - over student grants.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    kjh said:

    Even by Trump's standard I was staggered by this clip when I saw it earlier today. Trump really does seem to believe the argument he is putting. It is mind boggling.

    I guess it is different things that tell you he is an idiot. A friend of mine who doesn't follow these things too much found the fact that he thought the F35's stealth capability meant it was invisible to the naked eye when next to you a 'slam dunk'.

    A fan of the Bond franchise perhaps? Did he not have an invisible car in one particularly silly part?
    I don’t remember seeing any invisible car?
    Boom boom!
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    and isn't it an SKS plan to address that with huge devolution across England akin to Scotland, therefore addressing your concerns?
    So he's going to abolish the Secretary of State for Health etc on a UK level and have an English one chosen by an English Parliament?

    Or is it not going to be the same as what Scotland has? More power for Councils is not what the Scottish Parliament has.
    No

    I thought it would be much more localised from what I have read.

    More akin to what you see in other western democracies where the national / federal government plays a much smaller part in decision making.

    You'd have things like health managed locally in Greater Manchester, West Midlands etc. with budgets and foreign affairs maintained in Westminster.
    In any case, the basicv point is that the Tory argument is that Westminstert should not be partly controlled by SNP MPs because it is an English Parliament. Yet it is primarily a UK one and SNP MPs are elected to that parliament.

    The Tory attitude is that the English bit should have supremacy. How else can it be explained?
    I have never said that, just that there should be a Scottish Parliament as well as an English Parliament
    Acknowledged; I was speaking of the Tories in general, as with the Ed Miliband poster.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,961

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    No that's not the basic point.

    The basic point is that the English government shouldn't be determined by Scottish MPs.

    Given that Health and Education are devolved matters, if the English elect a Tory majority would it be appropriate to have a Labour government with Labour Secretary of States for Health and Education etc because of SNP MPs?

    Tony Blair screwed both England and Scotland in different ways with his asymmetric devolution farce.
    The Tories have had ten years to create an English Parliament and solve that problem.
    Or to put it another way, 36 years out of the last 60 to come up with some sort of devolution plan of their own, yet nada, zilch, zero.
    The Tories introduced EVFEL, which has been the dog that didn't bark so far
    Because it was a solution to a problem that barely existed. Still, announcing it on the steps of Downing St the morning after the Indy ref was a masterstroke in assuaging restless English nationalism.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    UK poll parity soon, what do we think?

    Unlikely but Starmer does not need poll parity anyway, on the latest Opinium poll he will be PM with SNP and LD support even if the Tories have won a majority in England
    But you and your other Tory chums keep telling us that it's impossible for SKS to be PM with SNP support because your lot will whip up so much hysteria about the Scottish MPs being allowed to vote in the Commons about who the Government is.

    I thought that was rather the point of being a MP.
    It would be rather accepting a poisoned chalice for the SNP though. Being part of a UK Government and calling the shots. It rather undermines the whole point.
    Doesn't affect the basic point - that it is the Tories themselves who try and deny MPs from my country the right to take part in the Parliament to which theyt have been elected.

    Just think about that.

    What other category of MP will they try it on next?
    The problem is that while you, or @Big_G_NorthWales, have the power to vote in an MP who controls health, education etc in England, I don't have that power in England to vote on somebody who controls those matters for you.

    Yes, I know that there are indirect impacts, but that's not the point. You don't have to be a rabid English nationalist to see that as an issue.

    The correct solution is further devolution to England, but for practical reasons that's hard.

    The alternative is for Scottish and Welsh MPs to be very careful about what they vote on and why - for example, not buggering about with fox hunting - so as not to draw too much attention to it. Unfortunately, for their own reasons the SNP have taken exactly the opposite course.
    I beg to differ, politely. Barring votes with Barnett consequentials, the SNP already are pretty scrupulous. They do not vote on education in England, for instance. You'd hear screaming from the PB Tories on each and every occasion, as if theiue baw hairs were being indivbidually depilated with pliers. That silence is pretty revealing.

    It's the Unionist MPs in Scotland that do. As, infamously, the LD MPs in Scotland did - over student grants.
    This is what I was thinking of:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fox-hunting-ban-snp-goes-back-on-pledge-not-to-vote-on-matters-that-purely-affect-england-10389077.html

    OK, so it was five years ago. But it's exactly the sort of thing that does raise the profile of the two classes of MP.
This discussion has been closed.