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  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 2,599
    edited July 31
    To all those mocking me , and there are many, and maybe I deserveit but I repeat

    What's your way out? what's your way back to freedom, liberty and prosperity? How do you see the path back to living like free citizens again?

    I really can't see it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 12,380
    kle4 said:

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    If you think Vallance, Witty and Co are gonna let us off that easy, well, I feel sorry for you.

    What, and let all the enormous power they have been given by the British state to interfere in the lives of ordinary people unchecked and unscrutinised and backed up by a bullyboy police force, just evaporate? Just like that?

    I don;t think it is going to work like that. I really don't.
    They could just say there is no evidence the vaccine provides anything other than a few months of immunity, which there wont be when it first comes out. So we need to take the injection and then lock down again next May.
    its quite clear from what has happened with hydroxowhatsit that if the medical establishment want to discredit a drug, whatever its efficacy , they have the power.

    All those who think a vaccine is going to magically free us from bondage are going to be in for a massive shock.

    Why do you think the medical establishment would do such a thing? Who are they? And given this is the most prominent news story of the last 2 decades, why do think they could get away with falsely discrediting something like that?
    To suggest two reasons, because a cheap anti-malarial that comes in a variety of generic forms is not going to pay the bills, and Trump. Not saying this is true, and that it's a gigantic web of malign intent, but we should have had a couple of big trials with zinc by now.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 8,025
    B

    https://lockdownsceptics.org/

    Toby kicks back against Hancock. Why is NW shutting down when London has higher % testing positive on ONS figures?

    NW isn't. Greater Manchester and some of East Lancs is.
    The ignorance of geography is quite astonishing from someone who rails against the Metropolitan elite.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 16,375

    https://lockdownsceptics.org/

    Toby kicks back against Hancock. Why is NW shutting down when London has higher % testing positive on ONS figures?

    I've found that site and excellent source. A sort of Who's Who of total bullshit artists.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 6,712

    MaxPB said:

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    If you think Vallance, Witty and Co are gonna let us off that easy, well, I feel sorry for you.

    What, and let all the enormous power they have been given by the British state to interfere in the lives of ordinary people unchecked and unscrutinised and backed up by a bullyboy police force, just evaporate? Just like that?

    I don;t think it is going to work like that. I really don't.
    They could just say there is no evidence the vaccine provides anything other than a few months of immunity, which there wont be when it first comes out. So we need to take the injection and then lock down again next May.
    its quite clear from what has happened with hydroxowhatsit that if the medical establishment want to discredit a drug, whatever its efficacy , they have the power.

    All those who think a vaccine is going to magically free us from bondage are going to be in for a massive shock.

    Lol you're a Hydroxychloroquine conspiracy theorist.
    The secret is that it only works if you mix it 50/50 with bleach before injecting it.
    Better still sunlight. Imagine if it had been tested today? You would probably get some of the greatest test results anyone has ever delivered.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 24,529

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    If you think Vallance, Witty and Co are gonna let us off that easy, well, I feel sorry for you.

    What, and let all the enormous power they have been given by the British state to interfere in the lives of ordinary people unchecked and unscrutinised and backed up by a bullyboy police force, just evaporate? Just like that?

    I don;t think it is going to work like that. I really don't.
    They could just say there is no evidence the vaccine provides anything other than a few months of immunity, which there wont be when it first comes out. So we need to take the injection and then lock down again next May.
    its quite clear from what has happened with hydroxowhatsit that if the medical establishment want to discredit a drug, whatever its efficacy , they have the power.

    Yes, it's also called conducting randomised clinical trials, and presenting the results.
    It is, for treating coronavirus, utterly useless.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 84,159
    edited July 31
    .

    To all those mocking me , and there are many, I repeat

    What's your way out? what's your way back to freedom, liberty and prosperity? How do you see the path back to living like free citizens again?

    Locking idiots like you up until we have a vaccine.

    Whilst you're locked you'll be fed only pizzas with pineapples on them and hydroxychloroquine.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,976

    There are currently 854 hospitals in England. As at the 30th July there are 830 Covid inpatients. That is less than 1 per hospital.

    Startling. They do need to get regular or semi regulations going. Even with an incoming second wave people can be seen to in some amount.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 32,693
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 24,529

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    If you think Vallance, Witty and Co are gonna let us off that easy, well, I feel sorry for you.

    What, and let all the enormous power they have been given by the British state to interfere in the lives of ordinary people unchecked and unscrutinised and backed up by a bullyboy police force, just evaporate? Just like that?

    I don;t think it is going to work like that. I really don't.
    They could just say there is no evidence the vaccine provides anything other than a few months of immunity, which there wont be when it first comes out. So we need to take the injection and then lock down again next May.
    its quite clear from what has happened with hydroxowhatsit that if the medical establishment want to discredit a drug, whatever its efficacy , they have the power.

    All those who think a vaccine is going to magically free us from bondage are going to be in for a massive shock.

    Perhaps they are; however, most of us realise that vaccines don't work by magic.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 6,202
    edited July 31
    Just dipped in briefly.

    My, my, there are a fair few pandemic flat-earthers here this afternoon.

    For the record some very basic facts, yes there is a pandemic, many thousands of people have already died from Covid-19 and the government has prevented many thousands of additional deaths by locking down.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 517
    Andy_JS said:

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    A vaccine isn't going to eradicate the virus.
    No, that's unlikely without the kind of concerted international effort for smallpox (and also assumes that there's no mutation that gets around the vaccine and - unless eradication was done quickly - that vaccination would provide long term immunity). However, we don't take any precautions (other than vaccination programs) for a whole load of serious illnesses that are by no means eradicated, not even eradicated in this country. Eradication is not necessary to get back to normal.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 61,398
    Andy_JS said:

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    A vaccine isn't going to eradicate the virus.
    Why not ? Vaccines have eradicated plenty of other viruses. Also it's a particular strain that doesn't mutate much if at all. The difficulty with flu vaccines is there are loads of strains of it about !
    There's only 1 Sars-cov-2 virus doing the rounds in the coronavirus family reaping havoc right now. And loads from academia and big pharma are working on defeating it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,428
    edited July 31

    To all those mocking me , and there are many, and maybe I deserveit but I repeat

    What's your way out? what's your way back to freedom, liberty and prosperity? How do you see the path back to living like free citizens again?

    I really can't see it.

    A vaccine.

    And it always was.

    If you can't see that, I advise a trip to Barnard Castle is in order.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 6,712

    To all those mocking me , and there are many, and maybe I deserveit but I repeat

    What's your way out? what's your way back to freedom, liberty and prosperity? How do you see the path back to living like free citizens again?

    I really can't see it.

    Vaccine widely available within 12 months, hopefully 6. At that point remaining controls should be phased out over a 3-6 month or so period.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 84,159
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
    Oh David.

    Copywrite? COPYWRITE? COPYWRITE?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,428
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
    ahem

    Copyright, please, Mr L.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 48,527
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    A vaccine isn't going to eradicate the virus.
    Why not ? Vaccines have eradicated plenty of other viruses. Also it's a particular strain that doesn't mutate much if at all. The difficulty with flu vaccines is there are loads of strains of it about !
    There's only 1 Sars-cov-2 virus doing the rounds in the coronavirus family reaping havoc right now. And loads from academia and big pharma are working on defeating it.
    If we are lucky it can be eradicated, but either way it doesn't mean a vaccine won't be a game-changer. Why do they vaccinate you for other non-eradicated diseases otherwise?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,976
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    houndtang said:

    kle4 said:

    Chris Whitty is man with enormous power over our lives, unscrutised, unaccountable and it seems, not replaceable. I'm not even sure how qualified he is to make these decisions given he is a medic and not and epidemiologist. He even hinted today he wants to constrain the people pf Britain further

    This cannot be right. It cannot.

    This isn;t medicine. It is tyranny.

    Yes, it is a worry. We've put men who hitherto, by the very nature of their professions, were somewhat obscure, introverted, socially awkward and monomaniacal into positions of immense and unchallenged power. We can all see the psychological dangers of such a collision. Not a healthy mix.
    I'm increasingly worried where this is all heading as we seem to be going towards the position that the NHS must be protected from dealing with more than a handful of cases at all costs including finally destroying our economy, sending 1000s to an early death because the NHS is shut for anything else and removing ancient rights of liberty.

    Maybe the heat is getting to me and I am over reacting, but this is getting worrying.
    Certainly the medical people I've been involved with since lockdown have included several almost angry at the idea a non Covid issue should come up, I'd not be surprised if the protect the nhs policy was a bit too effective.

    Life has to go on even during pandemics, we cannot constantly be stopping things for fear of capacity issues.

    And to read as recommended earlier in lockdown, The Naked Sun, about a world with no physical contact.
    The hospital my wife works at remains empty. They have not had a Covid case for weeks. All staff still get free food in the canteen. Staff regulalrly outnumber patients on wards. All staff are on minimum contract hours and are being requested to take holidays. She used to come home from work tired, now she comes in like she has been for a stroll in a park. She is bored out of her mind
    When are people going to wake up ffs?? I cannot believe how people are swallowing this bullshit:

    Masks on public transport
    Masks in shops
    Masks in places of worship
    Next - masks in the office, school, street, park, your own home
    And 90 odd % of people will still do it.

    More lockdowns. The physical, mental, financial and spiritual health of a nation steadily being sapped day by day.

    Despite the fact that as you say the NHS is twiddling its useless thumbs.

    I never believed in conspiracy theories of any kind before this. But this has gone beyond incompetence now. There has to be an agenda at work. And the compliant masses just sleepwalk straight into it. Just unbelievably depressed about the future of this country and the world.
    I'm incredibly confused as to what nefarious agenda you think is at work. What do you think is being sought and why have nearly all governments in the world shown remarkable cooperation in pushing that agenda?
    Well obviously they are all lizards who know not to let a crisis go to waste.
    Maybe. Quote aside from noone else being that powerful I do think without bring able to identify the purpose of an agenda which could unify so many who disagree on so much, it's a bit much to accept this unclear agenda exists.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 7,005

    To all those mocking me , and there are many, and maybe I deserveit but I repeat

    What's your way out? what's your way back to freedom, liberty and prosperity? How do you see the path back to living like free citizens again?

    I really can't see it.

    +1
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 12,380

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
    Oh David.

    Copywrite? COPYWRITE? COPYWRITE?
    Given DavidL's legal background, my thought pattern was - 'Oh, didn't realise I'd been getting that word wrong all this time'...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,428

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
    Oh David.

    Copywrite? COPYWRITE? COPYWRITE?
    It was a patent error, but I'm sure it was not by design.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 8,025

    To all those mocking me , and there are many, and maybe I deserveit but I repeat

    What's your way out? what's your way back to freedom, liberty and prosperity? How do you see the path back to living like free citizens again?

    I really can't see it.

    Well. What do you mean? If "freedom, liberty and prosperity" mean the status quo pre-March, then no I can't see it.
    The world has changed. Railing against it doesn't really help.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 13,985
    edited July 31

    kinabalu said:

    https://lockdownsceptics.org/

    Toby kicks back against Hancock. Why is NW shutting down when London has higher % testing positive on ONS figures?

    Protecting our free speech AND at the same time fighting tooth & nail against lockdown.

    This man - Toby Young - is something else.
    I think he's involved with free schools too.
    Utter villain and hard right maniac.

    Almost - but not quite - as bad as the ghastly Claus.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 32,693

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
    Oh David.

    Copywrite? COPYWRITE? COPYWRITE?
    It's hot. Damned hot.

    Sigh.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 3,901
    edited July 31

    MaxPB said:

    Opening of everything delayed. Wow.

    Makes sense but I feel awful for anyone who had their wedding reception rescheduled for during that period.
    F8ck them, f8ck the people who booked holidays and people who have lost their jobs and expect others, the millions waiting months and years for non covid health treatment, those sickening with mental health issues.

    The law of 'R' must be obeyed. Chris Whitty must be obeyed. The NHS must not be put under any pressure. Those beds must stay empty

    At all costs.

    Does anybody, anybody out there still think this insanity is worth it?
    To be honest you are one who sounds like the voice crying in the wilderness.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 28,100

    To all those mocking me , and there are many, and maybe I deserveit but I repeat

    What's your way out? what's your way back to freedom, liberty and prosperity? How do you see the path back to living like free citizens again?

    I really can't see it.

    Perhaps where you have gone wrong is in adopting an extreme contrarian stance on a site where the large majority of posters have a degree of intelligence?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,428
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
    Oh David.

    Copywrite? COPYWRITE? COPYWRITE?
    It's hot. Damned hot.

    Sigh.
    You're right. It is a trifle on the warm side.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 12,380
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
    Oh David.

    Copywrite? COPYWRITE? COPYWRITE?
    It was a patent error, but I'm sure it was not by design.
    It had none of David's trademark panache.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 6,202

    To all those mocking me , and there are many, and maybe I deserveit but I repeat

    What's your way out? what's your way back to freedom, liberty and prosperity? How do you see the path back to living like free citizens again?

    I really can't see it.

    "I am not a number, I am a free man!"
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 21,365
    I'm looking forwards to lockdown sceptics moving on to pushing a bunch of anti-vaxxer bollocks when it looks like we have a working vaccine in a few months.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,428

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
    Oh David.

    Copywrite? COPYWRITE? COPYWRITE?
    It was a patent error, but I'm sure it was not by design.
    It had none of David's trademark panache.
    True, but it offered the opportunity for a topical conversation which is the hallmark of good punning.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 24,529

    kle4 said:

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    If you think Vallance, Witty and Co are gonna let us off that easy, well, I feel sorry for you.

    What, and let all the enormous power they have been given by the British state to interfere in the lives of ordinary people unchecked and unscrutinised and backed up by a bullyboy police force, just evaporate? Just like that?

    I don;t think it is going to work like that. I really don't.
    They could just say there is no evidence the vaccine provides anything other than a few months of immunity, which there wont be when it first comes out. So we need to take the injection and then lock down again next May.
    its quite clear from what has happened with hydroxowhatsit that if the medical establishment want to discredit a drug, whatever its efficacy , they have the power.

    All those who think a vaccine is going to magically free us from bondage are going to be in for a massive shock.

    Why do you think the medical establishment would do such a thing? Who are they? And given this is the most prominent news story of the last 2 decades, why do think they could get away with falsely discrediting something like that?
    To suggest two reasons, because a cheap anti-malarial that comes in a variety of generic forms is not going to pay the bills, and Trump. Not saying this is true, and that it's a gigantic web of malign intent, but we should have had a couple of big trials with zinc by now.

    It's (or rather the US government has) paid some of the bills at, of all places, Kodak:
    https://slate.com/business/2020/07/kodaks-strange-move-into-pharmaceuticals.html
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 1,224
    kle4 said:

    There are currently 854 hospitals in England. As at the 30th July there are 830 Covid inpatients. That is less than 1 per hospital.

    Startling. They do need to get regular or semi regulations going. Even with an incoming second wave people can be seen to in some amount.
    We have wasted the summer, hospitals have been empty for months. They could have done all the backlogged operations yet they have just kept them empty. It is just awful.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 24,704
    edited July 31
    I think @contrarian's voice is extremely important. We don't of course know to what extent he is right but without such voices then the government really does get a free pass.

    And does no one else think it is slightly rich for the team which has presided, it appears, over the highest excess death rate in Europe to be praised so much for shouting the odds about what we do next?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 12,380

    To all those mocking me , and there are many, and maybe I deserveit but I repeat

    What's your way out? what's your way back to freedom, liberty and prosperity? How do you see the path back to living like free citizens again?

    I really can't see it.

    Firstly - not despairing.

    Secondly, treatments are improving, knowledge is improving, vaccines are around the corner, and we have the whole world to learn from. Humanity will stumble forward as always.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 6,759
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://lockdownsceptics.org/

    Toby kicks back against Hancock. Why is NW shutting down when London has higher % testing positive on ONS figures?

    Protecting our free speech AND at the same time fighting tooth & nail against lockdown.

    This man - Toby Young - is something else.
    I think he's involved with free schools too.
    Utter villain and hard right maniac.

    Almost - but not quite - as bad as the ghastly Claus.
    The free schools he has been involved with are a success - measured in terms of performance of children from disadvantaged backgrounds, and in getting the middle class to use state schools instead of private.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 34,051
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:
    I support Roger Waters' freedom of speech, but you don't *automatically* get a letter into The Times, do you? I should imagine they receive somewhat more letters than they publish.
    LOL exactly.

    It is EXTREMELY difficult to get them published even when you have managed to be pithy, to the point, acute, erudite and relevant.

    That said, I have managed to do this a few times successfully but the hit rate is very, very low.
    Presumably you avoided the phrases "makes my blood boil", "Israeli lobby", "rogue state of Israel" and "Her Majesty's masters in Washington".
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 6,202
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
    Oh David.

    Copywrite? COPYWRITE? COPYWRITE?
    It's hot. Damned hot.

    Sigh.
    You're right. It is a trifle on the warm side.
    Come to the Vale of Glamorgan, it's trying hard to rain here.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 35,651
    kle4 said:

    There are currently 854 hospitals in England. As at the 30th July there are 830 Covid inpatients. That is less than 1 per hospital.

    Startling. They do need to get regular or semi regulations going. Even with an incoming second wave people can be seen to in some amount.
    They are all too busy installing video cams so that Hancock's new dream of an NHS where no doctor actually meets a patient can be realised.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 24,529
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
    Oh David.

    Copywrite? COPYWRITE? COPYWRITE?
    It was a patent error, but I'm sure it was not by design.
    I suggest the temporary hire of a freelance copywriter.
    When your trade is words, you have to come up to the mark...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 21,365
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    If you think Vallance, Witty and Co are gonna let us off that easy, well, I feel sorry for you.

    What, and let all the enormous power they have been given by the British state to interfere in the lives of ordinary people unchecked and unscrutinised and backed up by a bullyboy police force, just evaporate? Just like that?

    I don;t think it is going to work like that. I really don't.
    They could just say there is no evidence the vaccine provides anything other than a few months of immunity, which there wont be when it first comes out. So we need to take the injection and then lock down again next May.
    its quite clear from what has happened with hydroxowhatsit that if the medical establishment want to discredit a drug, whatever its efficacy , they have the power.

    All those who think a vaccine is going to magically free us from bondage are going to be in for a massive shock.

    Why do you think the medical establishment would do such a thing? Who are they? And given this is the most prominent news story of the last 2 decades, why do think they could get away with falsely discrediting something like that?
    To suggest two reasons, because a cheap anti-malarial that comes in a variety of generic forms is not going to pay the bills, and Trump. Not saying this is true, and that it's a gigantic web of malign intent, but we should have had a couple of big trials with zinc by now.

    It's (or rather the US government has) paid some of the bills at, of all places, Kodak:
    https://slate.com/business/2020/07/kodaks-strange-move-into-pharmaceuticals.html
    That looks like such a dodgy fucking deal. I'd be interested if a major news outlet investigating the shareholders of Kodak and their links to the Trump family. The whole thing completely stinks.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 4,184
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
    Oh David.

    Copywrite? COPYWRITE? COPYWRITE?
    It's hot. Damned hot.

    Sigh.
    You need a copywriter.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 24,529
    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    A vaccine isn't going to eradicate the virus.
    No, that's unlikely without the kind of concerted international effort for smallpox (and also assumes that there's no mutation that gets around the vaccine and - unless eradication was done quickly - that vaccination would provide long term immunity). However, we don't take any precautions (other than vaccination programs) for a whole load of serious illnesses that are by no means eradicated, not even eradicated in this country. Eradication is not necessary to get back to normal.
    In addition, if the mRNA vaccines prove effective as a class, we have a potential rapid reaction tool for future pandemic viruses.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 12,380
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    If you think Vallance, Witty and Co are gonna let us off that easy, well, I feel sorry for you.

    What, and let all the enormous power they have been given by the British state to interfere in the lives of ordinary people unchecked and unscrutinised and backed up by a bullyboy police force, just evaporate? Just like that?

    I don;t think it is going to work like that. I really don't.
    They could just say there is no evidence the vaccine provides anything other than a few months of immunity, which there wont be when it first comes out. So we need to take the injection and then lock down again next May.
    its quite clear from what has happened with hydroxowhatsit that if the medical establishment want to discredit a drug, whatever its efficacy , they have the power.

    All those who think a vaccine is going to magically free us from bondage are going to be in for a massive shock.

    Why do you think the medical establishment would do such a thing? Who are they? And given this is the most prominent news story of the last 2 decades, why do think they could get away with falsely discrediting something like that?
    To suggest two reasons, because a cheap anti-malarial that comes in a variety of generic forms is not going to pay the bills, and Trump. Not saying this is true, and that it's a gigantic web of malign intent, but we should have had a couple of big trials with zinc by now.

    It's (or rather the US government has) paid some of the bills at, of all places, Kodak:
    https://slate.com/business/2020/07/kodaks-strange-move-into-pharmaceuticals.html
    And many of the trials finding it to be useless have been sponsored by companies offering alternatives. There's enough greasy dodgy dealings to go around.

    China is the world's top zinc producer. Perhaps out of self-interest they should do a zinc/hydroxychloroquin trial.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 6,202
    So, Conservative Remainers and Labour Leavers (most of whom have indeed left the Labour Party).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 35,651
    "More than 2.7m people in northern England have woken to fresh lockdown restrictions despite living in neighbourhoods which have had fewer than four confirmed cases in the last 14 days, Telegraph analysis has revealed."

    Telegraph
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 12,380
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
    Oh David.

    Copywrite? COPYWRITE? COPYWRITE?
    It was a patent error, but I'm sure it was not by design.
    It had none of David's trademark panache.
    True, but it offered the opportunity for a topical conversation which is the hallmark of good punning.
    Sadly, I fear he'll be branded by this for some time.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 61,398
    MaxPB said:

    I'm looking forwards to lockdown sceptics moving on to pushing a bunch of anti-vaxxer bollocks when it looks like we have a working vaccine in a few months.

    Aye - It's so so predictable.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 48,527

    "More than 2.7m people in northern England have woken to fresh lockdown restrictions despite living in neighbourhoods which have had fewer than four confirmed cases in the last 14 days, Telegraph analysis has revealed."

    Telegraph

    Is the Telegraph looking at the same data as HMG?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,428
    edited July 31
    So is Philip Hammond, which surprises me somewhat. Ken Clarke probably deserves his insofar as anyone 'deserves' a peerage. Mr Johnson is naked familial preferment.

    Frank Field and Ian Austin are a pointed slap in the face to Corbyn.

    Interesting that Philip May has been knighted. Unusual way of showing appreciation to a former PM - knighting her husband? I know Denis was made a baronet but only at the same time as Thatcher was made a peer. Why not knight Theresa May directly with a DBE or something?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,284

    New thread

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 35,627

    So, Conservative Remainers and Labour Leavers (most of whom have indeed left the Labour Party).
    Balanced
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 24,704

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:
    I support Roger Waters' freedom of speech, but you don't *automatically* get a letter into The Times, do you? I should imagine they receive somewhat more letters than they publish.
    LOL exactly.

    It is EXTREMELY difficult to get them published even when you have managed to be pithy, to the point, acute, erudite and relevant.

    That said, I have managed to do this a few times successfully but the hit rate is very, very low.
    Presumably you avoided the phrases "makes my blood boil", "Israeli lobby", "rogue state of Israel" and "Her Majesty's masters in Washington".
    I tried to but it's very difficult to make any kind of point without invoking the real power behind the global government.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 35,627

    "More than 2.7m people in northern England have woken to fresh lockdown restrictions despite living in neighbourhoods which have had fewer than four confirmed cases in the last 14 days, Telegraph analysis has revealed."

    Telegraph

    Listening to Boris and Chris Whitty at lunchtime this move is balanced and needed.

    Starmer was informed at a privvy council meeting and he agrees with the action.

    Futhermore reports coming out of Europe are scary and Sky were predicting whole country lockdowns in Europe
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 84,159

    NEW THREAD

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 3,901

    We have come a long way from masks don't work haven't we.

    I did predict that cases would go up with the enforced wearing of face masks in shops etc two weeks ago and I was told I was on crack.
    I think RCS said you must one on crack because you were arguing that the number of cases would go up BECAUSE people were wearing masks. That was and is total rubbish.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,976
    edited July 31

    To all those mocking me , and there are many, and maybe I deserveit but I repeat

    What's your way out? what's your way back to freedom, liberty and prosperity? How do you see the path back to living like free citizens again?

    I really can't see it.

    Time. Society has survived far worse plagues and will this one, and our governments are not powerful enough to force measures like at present on us indefinitely even if they wanted to.

    Your questions about a way out are not the issue, it's the conspracist attribution to villainy.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 13,985

    To all those mocking me , and there are many, and maybe I deserveit but I repeat

    What's your way out? what's your way back to freedom, liberty and prosperity? How do you see the path back to living like free citizens again?

    I really can't see it.

    We are free. We're freerer than ever before in modern times. We've left the European Union. Whole point of it.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 3,218

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    If you think Vallance, Witty and Co are gonna let us off that easy, well, I feel sorry for you.

    What, and let all the enormous power they have been given by the British state to interfere in the lives of ordinary people unchecked and unscrutinised and backed up by a bullyboy police force, just evaporate? Just like that?

    I don;t think it is going to work like that. I really don't.
    They could just say there is no evidence the vaccine provides anything other than a few months of immunity, which there wont be when it first comes out. So we need to take the injection and then lock down again next May.
    its quite clear from what has happened with hydroxowhatsit that if the medical establishment want to discredit a drug, whatever its efficacy , they have the power.

    All those who think a vaccine is going to magically free us from bondage are going to be in for a massive shock.

    IF the drug worked why would they want to discredit it, given that they gave the green light to the terribly expensive, big Phama pushed treatment called Proning?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 2,415
    Andy_JS said:

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    A vaccine isn't going to eradicate the virus.
    Smallpox looks at you sadly.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 2,415

    To all those mocking me , and there are many, and maybe I deserveit but I repeat

    What's your way out? what's your way back to freedom, liberty and prosperity? How do you see the path back to living like free citizens again?

    I really can't see it.

    Once again, a vaccine.

    Smallpox no longers bothers us.
    We go around our lives without worrying about polio, unlike our grandparents.
    Measles, mumps, and rubella haven't been eradicated, but do not affect our day-to-day lives.
    Pertussis isn't an issue these days.
    Cholera, tuberculosis, most forms of hepatitis, tetanus, and rabies have minimal impact on our freedom, liberty, or prosperity.

    It works. Ask Roald Dahl.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 29,837
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?

    Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
    Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
    We're going to do that!
    The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
    Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.

    He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
    Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
    I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.

    What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
    Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
    Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.

    If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
    Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
    [Citation Needed]

    He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.

    Right of centre.
    I hear he refuses to pay minimum wage or allow time off for Christmas either.

    Bastard!
    He's probably breaking a lot of modern slavery rules wrt his elvish workforce. Found some poor race and enslaved them to make toys.
    And copywrite? How the hell does he get away with the copywrite? He's worse than the Chinese.
    Oh David.

    Copywrite? COPYWRITE? COPYWRITE?
    It's hot. Damned hot.

    Sigh.
    You're right. It is a trifle on the warm side.
    Not on west coast unfortunately , though not as cold as recently
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 32,678

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    it would cascade down to heavier sentences for all other crimes - to maintain differentials.

    I don't think you need to do this, when someone loses their life - the effect is more final than any other type of crime.
    It is but if the served time for murder doubles or triples but that for attempted murder stays the same, or for horrendous GBH or violent rape, these sort of very grave offences, then this imo throws the scales of justice out. I can think of non murder cases in the past that I considered to be as heinous as murder if not more so.
    Someone raping 200 people or abusing hundreds of children should be locked up longer than someone who has a one off event that leads to murder imo.
    I can think of some abuse cases, where the victim must surely have begged for death.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 32,678

    Contrarian is right. If we unlock everything today the virus will be gone tomorrow.

    The virus will never be gone.

    So how will you ever be free?

    How will you ever not have to 'take precautions?' or 'save lives' or ditch gimping it up in a mask whenever you go out?

    What's your way out?

    What's your way back to our liberties and freedoms and prosperity that have always existed whatever befell us?

    Because I can;t see one.
    Why won't the virus ever ben gone?

    Vaccines are literally in Phase III trials already. We just need to manage until a vaccine arrives.
    If you think Vallance, Witty and Co are gonna let us off that easy, well, I feel sorry for you.

    What, and let all the enormous power they have been given by the British state to interfere in the lives of ordinary people unchecked and unscrutinised and backed up by a bullyboy police force, just evaporate? Just like that?

    I don;t think it is going to work like that. I really don't.
    Which particular powers do you think the government will wish to hold on to? And which of these powers do you think will be particular vote winners?

    Or perhaps we should take the government at their word: they are trying to save lives and minimise the damage to the economy. Now, they may not have always made the right calls (incoming flights early on being an example), but the idea that they see this as an opportunity for a power grab, and not as a tragedy is for the birds.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 32,678
    I think @kle4 is making an excellent case for poster of the year.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 12,380

    To all those mocking me , and there are many, and maybe I deserveit but I repeat

    What's your way out? what's your way back to freedom, liberty and prosperity? How do you see the path back to living like free citizens again?

    I really can't see it.

    Once again, a vaccine.

    Smallpox no longers bothers us.
    We go around our lives without worrying about polio, unlike our grandparents.
    Measles, mumps, and rubella haven't been eradicated, but do not affect our day-to-day lives.
    Pertussis isn't an issue these days.
    Cholera, tuberculosis, most forms of hepatitis, tetanus, and rabies have minimal impact on our freedom, liberty, or prosperity.

    It works. Ask Roald Dahl.
    'This too shall pass' is a good thing to remember.

    In the same way that a vaccine for smallpox used cowpox, is there a non lethal coronavirus we could be infected with (mildly) that might confer immunity to Covid-19?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,976
    rcs1000 said:

    I think @kle4 is making an excellent case for poster of the year.

    Talk about pressure - all downhill from here!
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