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Many of my friends are the same. They are virtually in hiding, and only a few are in at-risk groups.Yorkcity said:
Yes I am exactly the same.Gallowgate said:
I'm avoiding going shopping, to the pub, or a restaurant simply because social distancing is crap. I'd much rather just have friends round for coffee or beers.WhisperingOracle said:
Yes, all of these ; the traditional habits of socialising which people still seem to be cautiously ditching, as well as tourism and domestic travel, and all spending associated with leaving the house. This is affecting the whole of Europe, and beyond obviously, too.Gallowgate said:
What sort of things are you referring to? Going to the pub? Shopping on the high street?WhisperingOracle said:I think we're at the moment of a psychological crisis, in the sense of the psychology behind economics, as much as anything else.
It had been largely expected that people would start to resume old habits once facilities were unlocked, but, so far at least, that's not happening on anything like the level anticipated. If this doesn't start to change, with an explosion of better weather and August, we're in for some very rocky times ahead.
Summer hot weather might turn out to be very important in changing the economic psychology if we escape the worst end of predictions ; it makes sitting in the house continually almost insufferable, for a start, but it also tends to prime people into a more optimistic and outgoing mood.
I guess millions are doing the same, which will alter how the economy works at least in the short term.
Hard for the government to change from, stay at home, be safe.
To get out and spend to safe the economy.
For many a tenner of your meal , is not worth the risk.
The cumulative effect of this, on the economy, is so momentous it is hard to gauge. Unprecedented.0 -
Yes that is the bottom line. Hmmmm. Plenty of posting time on PB, that said!Gallowgate said:
I'm moderate risk (on immune suppression) but have been frequenting supermarkets and have even been dating (with the lack of social distancing that entails). So I guess I have been exposing myself to risk.TOPPING said:
Noted. But you are presumably fit and healthy now? And you have said how you haven't exposed yourself to risk? So.....???Gallowgate said:
Not in any way.TOPPING said:
Here's a moral conundrum for you - I booked (ages ago) to go to Greece on July 19th for a week. Four days after Greece is expected to let flights from the UK resume.isam said:I really couldn’t be bothered to go on holiday if there are a million COVIDrules and regulations to adhere to, hardly relaxing. Airports are a horror show at the best of times. Now they must be horrendous... and you can’t get a drink!
Greece's policy is to randomly test arrivals and, if they are found to be positive, to send them for 14 days to a "Quarantine Hotel".
So the gamble is go, test negative, have holiday all good; or go, test positive, not only not have holiday but be banged up in some Greek run hostel with food shoved under your door for two weeks.
Would you roll the dice?
Regardless I wouldn't gamble with flying 3 hours to be banged up in a Greek hostel for two weeks.0 -
GarethoftheVale2 said:
My partner and I will be doing our bit for the global economy by going to Barcelona for a long weekend shortly. Will be interesting to see what it is like</
Don’t go inland towards lleida where there is a major outbreak and 200,000 are locked down. Only one outbreak across Barcelona but stay aware, you need your mask with you at all times otherwise €1000 fine0 -
It isNerysHughes said:
That must be the lowest number for a Thursday since LockdownMalmesbury said:NHS England Hospital numbers out
Headline - 22
7 days - 17
Yesterday 4
Last 3-5 days subject to revision. Last 5 days included for completeness.
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Yes! Seriously, what kind of libertarian are you? I would rather be called a cunt a thousand times than suffer the ridiculous ideological censorship being imposed on our language. I consider an illiberal society a far more hateful and oppressive thing than any use of 'whitelist' or whatever the bugbear du jour happens to be.Philip_Thompson said:
So if I were to call you a c**t would you be OK with that?BluestBlue said:
Then you should appreciate that all these activities do not exist in isolation from one another, but are all part of a continuous spectrum, with the same ideology motivating them all. I entirely agree that the fate of one word or one statue is unimportant and can always be justified in one way or another - the point is that it's an incremental, salami-slicing technique to get people used to much more pervasive changes because 'Well, we got rid of those words and no one cared, so why should they care when we do X Y Z...'Gallowgate said:
If you actually paid attention to what I write instead of dismissing it all as "woke nonsense" you would know that I have continuously opposed the removal of monuments and the "cancelling" of historical figures.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.2 -
Seoul mayor reported missing, search launched
https://thehill.com/policy/international/506522-seoul-mayor-reported-missing-search-launched
The mayor of Seoul, South Korea, was reported missing on Thursday, leading to a large-scale search.
Park Won-soon was reported missing after his daughter said he had left her a message that sounded like a will, police officials told The Associated Press.
About 300 to 400 officers and a drone were involved in the search, which centered near a small hill where the mayor’s cellphone signal was last recorded before it was turned off, police said.
His daughter contacted police after being unable to reach her father, saying the verbal message she received from him four to five hours earlier was “will-like.” Park’s daughter did not detail the contents of the message, a Seoul Metropolitan Police Agency officer in charge of the search told the AP.
Park’s daughter reported the mayor missing at about 5 p.m. local time, a police official familiar with the case told CNN.
Kim Ji-hyeong, a Seoul Metropolitan Government official, told the news outlet that the mayor did not show up for work Thursday and had canceled all events on his calendar, including a scheduled meeting with a presidential official.
The reason for the mayor’s disappearance was unclear, but the Seoul-based SBS television network reported one of his secretaries had reported an alleged sexual harassment complaint Wednesday night....0 -
The PB version of that Remain fellow who went a bit Doolally in Greece? Chappers?TOPPING said:
Yes that is the bottom line. Hmmmm. Plenty of posting time on PB, that said!Gallowgate said:
I'm moderate risk (on immune suppression) but have been frequenting supermarkets and have even been dating (with the lack of social distancing that entails). So I guess I have been exposing myself to risk.TOPPING said:
Noted. But you are presumably fit and healthy now? And you have said how you haven't exposed yourself to risk? So.....???Gallowgate said:
Not in any way.TOPPING said:
Here's a moral conundrum for you - I booked (ages ago) to go to Greece on July 19th for a week. Four days after Greece is expected to let flights from the UK resume.isam said:I really couldn’t be bothered to go on holiday if there are a million COVIDrules and regulations to adhere to, hardly relaxing. Airports are a horror show at the best of times. Now they must be horrendous... and you can’t get a drink!
Greece's policy is to randomly test arrivals and, if they are found to be positive, to send them for 14 days to a "Quarantine Hotel".
So the gamble is go, test negative, have holiday all good; or go, test positive, not only not have holiday but be banged up in some Greek run hostel with food shoved under your door for two weeks.
Would you roll the dice?
Regardless I wouldn't gamble with flying 3 hours to be banged up in a Greek hostel for two weeks.0 -
You can legally call someone a c**t but choose not to do so out of decency.BluestBlue said:
Yes! Seriously, what kind of libertarian are you? I would rather be called a cunt a thousand times than suffer the ridiculous ideological censorship being imposed on our language. I consider an illiberal society a far more hateful and oppressive thing than any use of 'whitelist' or whatever the bugbear du jour happens to be.Philip_Thompson said:
So if I were to call you a c**t would you be OK with that?BluestBlue said:
Then you should appreciate that all these activities do not exist in isolation from one another, but are all part of a continuous spectrum, with the same ideology motivating them all. I entirely agree that the fate of one word or one statue is unimportant and can always be justified in one way or another - the point is that it's an incremental, salami-slicing technique to get people used to much more pervasive changes because 'Well, we got rid of those words and no one cared, so why should they care when we do X Y Z...'Gallowgate said:
If you actually paid attention to what I write instead of dismissing it all as "woke nonsense" you would know that I have continuously opposed the removal of monuments and the "cancelling" of historical figures.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.
The same with whitelist. I can legally use the term but choose not to do so.0 -
I dont understand why they have to close, give the place a clean and they are good to gological_song said:
I suppose pub crawls will be less popular now.Scott_xP said:0 -
I don't remember this much enthusiasm for Hillary (though obviously not so early on in the cycle).
Ex-Sanders aides launch pro-Biden ad targeting Latino voters
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/09/sanders-aides-pro-biden-ad-latino-voters-354101
A pair of super PACs launched by top aides to Bernie Sanders’ 2020 campaign is rolling out its first presidential campaign ad.
The spot, shared with POLITICO, targets Latino voters and attacks President Donald Trump over his handling of the Covid-19 pandemic. It is part of a seven-figure buy that will appear on TV and digitally in Arizona, Michigan and North Carolina, in Spanish as well as English...0 -
I think it's so the staff can be tested and get the results back.NerysHughes said:
I dont understand why they have to close, give the place a clean and they are good to gological_song said:
I suppose pub crawls will be less popular now.Scott_xP said:0 -
Libertarianism isn't a belief that nothing should be done, it is a belief that individuals can better decide what to do than governments.
So the government needn't say I shouldn't call @BluestBlue a c**t or use the term whitelist . . . I can using my own beliefs and my own logic decide not to do so unless I choose to be offensive.
That's not illiberal.1 -
No indeed but one man's common decency....Philip_Thompson said:
What legal instrument?TOPPING said:
How would you phrase the legal instrument and what would be the penalties for disobeying?Philip_Thompson said:
There's plenty of combinations. I like allowlist/blocklist.MaxPB said:
Some companies already use safelist/blocklist. I'm really not sure it makes much of a difference.RobD said:
allowlist and denylist seem reasonable, if a bit awkward.eek said:
My only problem with the words blacklist / whitelist is finding replacements that don't cause bigger issues during development.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
Really there's no reason not to change this at all. Its just simple decency this one.
Common decency doesn't require a legal instrument.
The discussion, perfectly summed up by @MaxPB, is facile.
Don't use the words fine. But you are banging on about (society, presumably) changing. Unless all you are doing is posturing, or you advocate some sanction, it is indeed facile for you to tell everyone how they should be talking.0 -
Democracy, in essence, is a system for managing disagreements between different parts of society in a way that they can all accept, even if they don't agree with the outcome, and thereby avoiding violence.Gallowgate said:On taxation: my instinct is that it should be agreed as widely as possible, as a society, what a fair tax system looks like, and at what point, if any, higher earners pay more. Then any tax rise (or cut) should be applied equally across everyone (as a percentage).
I know this is more difficult than tinkering around the edges but surely it's the most sustainable solution.
Therefore, trying to impose a permanent consensus as a way of avoiding debate is anathema, and will only lead to trouble.1 -
Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
Is it something so simple and obvious that it requires me to go wear a dunce's cap for the rest of the month?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12812063543346257931 -
I don't believe in sanction no. I don't believe sanction is necessary. Why would there need to be sanction?TOPPING said:
No indeed but one man's common decency....Philip_Thompson said:
What legal instrument?TOPPING said:
How would you phrase the legal instrument and what would be the penalties for disobeying?Philip_Thompson said:
There's plenty of combinations. I like allowlist/blocklist.MaxPB said:
Some companies already use safelist/blocklist. I'm really not sure it makes much of a difference.RobD said:
allowlist and denylist seem reasonable, if a bit awkward.eek said:
My only problem with the words blacklist / whitelist is finding replacements that don't cause bigger issues during development.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
Really there's no reason not to change this at all. Its just simple decency this one.
Common decency doesn't require a legal instrument.
The discussion, perfectly summed up by @MaxPB, is facile.
Don't use the words fine. But you are banging on about (society, presumably) changing. Unless all you are doing is posturing, or you advocate some sanction, it is indeed facile for you to tell everyone how they should be talking.
Society can change through people's actions it doesn't need government sanctions to evolve change.0 -
nichomar said:
Thanks. Probably just going to sit round the pool and get some sunGarethoftheVale2 said:My partner and I will be doing our bit for the global economy by going to Barcelona for a long weekend shortly. Will be interesting to see what it is like</
Don’t go inland towards lleida where there is a major outbreak and 200,000 are locked down. Only one outbreak across Barcelona but stay aware, you need your mask with you at all times otherwise €1000 fine</p>0 -
Perhaps it means there will be a further 99 tweets on the subject further explaining the position?TheScreamingEagles said:Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
Is it something so simple and obvious that it requires me to go wear a dunce's cap for the rest of the month?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12812063543346257932 -
So they can test and isolate the staff.NerysHughes said:
I dont understand why they have to close, give the place a clean and they are good to gological_song said:
I suppose pub crawls will be less popular now.Scott_xP said:0 -
95% of tests are done within a day nowRobD said:
I think it's so the staff can be tested and get the results back.NerysHughes said:
I dont understand why they have to close, give the place a clean and they are good to gological_song said:
I suppose pub crawls will be less popular now.Scott_xP said:0 -
I would. It's unlikely you'll be tested, and if you are, it's unlikely you'll be positive, and if you are, that's good to know.Gallowgate said:
Not in any way.TOPPING said:
Here's a moral conundrum for you - I booked (ages ago) to go to Greece on July 19th for a week. Four days after Greece is expected to let flights from the UK resume.isam said:I really couldn’t be bothered to go on holiday if there are a million COVIDrules and regulations to adhere to, hardly relaxing. Airports are a horror show at the best of times. Now they must be horrendous... and you can’t get a drink!
Greece's policy is to randomly test arrivals and, if they are found to be positive, to send them for 14 days to a "Quarantine Hotel".
So the gamble is go, test negative, have holiday all good; or go, test positive, not only not have holiday but be banged up in some Greek run hostel with food shoved under your door for two weeks.
Would you roll the dice?0 -
Being generous here, he *could* be saying: "for the first out of a hundred times...."TheScreamingEagles said:Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
Is it something so simple and obvious that it requires me to go wear a dunce's cap for the rest of the month?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1281206354334625793
As in tweets are often labelled 1/n if there will eventually be n of them.0 -
Yes.TheScreamingEagles said:Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
Is it something so simple and obvious that it requires me to go wear a dunce's cap for the rest of the month?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1281206354334625793
Trump is an innumerate fool.
Simply and obvious. Here is your cap 💩0 -
Discussions of what language is polite are a regular PB topic; this is an instance of that. Demanding that someone produce draft legislation in order to express an opinion is... strange. If not uncivil.TOPPING said:
No indeed but one man's common decency....Philip_Thompson said:
What legal instrument?TOPPING said:
How would you phrase the legal instrument and what would be the penalties for disobeying?Philip_Thompson said:
There's plenty of combinations. I like allowlist/blocklist.MaxPB said:
Some companies already use safelist/blocklist. I'm really not sure it makes much of a difference.RobD said:
allowlist and denylist seem reasonable, if a bit awkward.eek said:
My only problem with the words blacklist / whitelist is finding replacements that don't cause bigger issues during development.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
Really there's no reason not to change this at all. Its just simple decency this one.
Common decency doesn't require a legal instrument.
The discussion, perfectly summed up by @MaxPB, is facile.
Don't use the words fine. But you are banging on about (society, presumably) changing. Unless all you are doing is posturing, or you advocate some sanction, it is indeed facile for you to tell everyone how they should be talking.0 -
I suppose if you say it out loud it's 'For the one hundredth time..'.TheScreamingEagles said:Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
4 -
Yeah, but there's a chain of testing that needs to happen. First the person who has it needs to be tested and get their result back. Then they need to share where they've been and get additional people tested.NerysHughes said:
95% of tests are done within a day nowRobD said:
I think it's so the staff can be tested and get the results back.NerysHughes said:
I dont understand why they have to close, give the place a clean and they are good to gological_song said:
I suppose pub crawls will be less popular now.Scott_xP said:0 -
On each of these debates Id be happy to back odds of 1.3 that the person who started the conversation on here was resistant to the change. They are the true posturers and snow flakes, not those who engage with them in discussion.TOPPING said:
No indeed but one man's common decency....Philip_Thompson said:
What legal instrument?TOPPING said:
How would you phrase the legal instrument and what would be the penalties for disobeying?Philip_Thompson said:
There's plenty of combinations. I like allowlist/blocklist.MaxPB said:
Some companies already use safelist/blocklist. I'm really not sure it makes much of a difference.RobD said:
allowlist and denylist seem reasonable, if a bit awkward.eek said:
My only problem with the words blacklist / whitelist is finding replacements that don't cause bigger issues during development.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
Really there's no reason not to change this at all. Its just simple decency this one.
Common decency doesn't require a legal instrument.
The discussion, perfectly summed up by @MaxPB, is facile.
Don't use the words fine. But you are banging on about (society, presumably) changing. Unless all you are doing is posturing, or you advocate some sanction, it is indeed facile for you to tell everyone how they should be talking.0 -
Now you've said it that does make sense.Richard_Nabavi said:
I suppose if you say it out loud it's 'For the one hundredth time..'.TheScreamingEagles said:Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
1 -
It is Trump. Another 99 tweets are a certainty.RobD said:
Perhaps it means there will be a further 99 tweets on the subject further explaining the position?TheScreamingEagles said:Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
Is it something so simple and obvious that it requires me to go wear a dunce's cap for the rest of the month?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1281206354334625793
They may, of course, be on 99 different subjects
2 -
So you are seeking to influence others' use of language because of your particular belief of what constitutes decency. Not 1/100% sure exactly how libertarian that is.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't believe in sanction no. I don't believe sanction is necessary. Why would there need to be sanction?TOPPING said:
No indeed but one man's common decency....Philip_Thompson said:
What legal instrument?TOPPING said:
How would you phrase the legal instrument and what would be the penalties for disobeying?Philip_Thompson said:
There's plenty of combinations. I like allowlist/blocklist.MaxPB said:
Some companies already use safelist/blocklist. I'm really not sure it makes much of a difference.RobD said:
allowlist and denylist seem reasonable, if a bit awkward.eek said:
My only problem with the words blacklist / whitelist is finding replacements that don't cause bigger issues during development.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
Really there's no reason not to change this at all. Its just simple decency this one.
Common decency doesn't require a legal instrument.
The discussion, perfectly summed up by @MaxPB, is facile.
Don't use the words fine. But you are banging on about (society, presumably) changing. Unless all you are doing is posturing, or you advocate some sanction, it is indeed facile for you to tell everyone how they should be talking.
Society can change through people's actions it doesn't need government sanctions to evolve change.3 -
I've just booked two skiing holidays for early next year. Italy in March and France in April. I've used the credit from the aborted skiing holidays earlier this year. Can't wait. In the meantime, I'm off to Ireland for the month of August.0
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I don't think that was the case this time.noneoftheabove said:
On each of these debates Id be happy to back odds of 1.3 that the person who started the conversation on here was resistant to the change. They are the true posturers and snow flakes, not those who engage with them in discussion.TOPPING said:
No indeed but one man's common decency....Philip_Thompson said:
What legal instrument?TOPPING said:
How would you phrase the legal instrument and what would be the penalties for disobeying?Philip_Thompson said:
There's plenty of combinations. I like allowlist/blocklist.MaxPB said:
Some companies already use safelist/blocklist. I'm really not sure it makes much of a difference.RobD said:
allowlist and denylist seem reasonable, if a bit awkward.eek said:
My only problem with the words blacklist / whitelist is finding replacements that don't cause bigger issues during development.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
Really there's no reason not to change this at all. Its just simple decency this one.
Common decency doesn't require a legal instrument.
The discussion, perfectly summed up by @MaxPB, is facile.
Don't use the words fine. But you are banging on about (society, presumably) changing. Unless all you are doing is posturing, or you advocate some sanction, it is indeed facile for you to tell everyone how they should be talking.0 -
I'd say that AirBNBs are actually a low risk place to stay, compared to larger places with constant interactions, communal bars etc.noneoftheabove said:
Fewer airbnbs in London might help a few more people buy a house (well a tiny box) here. Always look on the bright side.LadyG said:
The trouble is, I don't believe Brits staycationing will make up for lost foreign visitors, because hotels and restaurants are going to be unwelcoming places, with social distancing in operation.Luckyguy1983 said:
As someone already mentioned, we have a huge tourism deficit. If all international tourism both ways stopped, the economy would benefit vastly.LadyG said:The tourist industry is almost 10% of the UK's GDP. It provides 3.8m jobs.
Much of this will survive as domestic tourism benefits from Brits staycationing.
But much of this will also go. Foreign tourists are crucial to London, in particular.
It's going to be carnage, unless we get a vaccine/treatments very soon. We could see 15% unemployment and a wartime-scale deficit. Britain will be like Greece after the Great Recession, except worse, because the whole world will be in a slump, as demand crashes everywhere.
Ah well. Ben Stokes is still in. I think.
Some specific businesses will do well. Holiday lets in places like Cornwall. London hotels and restaurants will close down and not reopen.
My neighbour who was left high and dry due to summary closure of the Static Caravan Parks leaving her stranded having just paid 3k annual fees has started again.
0 -
That's a top catch.
Ben Stokes should never captain England ever again.1 -
Is it?Richard_Nabavi said:
I suppose if you say it out loud it's 'For the one hundredth time..'.TheScreamingEagles said:Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
1/100 is one hundredth
100th is one hundredth
1/100th isn't is it?0 -
Well I am going four days after Greece opens to the UK so they might hit/test UK flights hard.Barnesian said:
I would. It's unlikely you'll be tested, and if you are, it's unlikely you'll be positive, and if you are, that's good to know.Gallowgate said:
Not in any way.TOPPING said:
Here's a moral conundrum for you - I booked (ages ago) to go to Greece on July 19th for a week. Four days after Greece is expected to let flights from the UK resume.isam said:I really couldn’t be bothered to go on holiday if there are a million COVIDrules and regulations to adhere to, hardly relaxing. Airports are a horror show at the best of times. Now they must be horrendous... and you can’t get a drink!
Greece's policy is to randomly test arrivals and, if they are found to be positive, to send them for 14 days to a "Quarantine Hotel".
So the gamble is go, test negative, have holiday all good; or go, test positive, not only not have holiday but be banged up in some Greek run hostel with food shoved under your door for two weeks.
Would you roll the dice?
Then again they might just ask me to sprint 100m to see how breathless I am.0 -
Well, "clot" is a bit rude, but nothing to get upset over.....Philip_Thompson said:
So if I were to call you a c**t would you be OK with that?BluestBlue said:
Then you should appreciate that all these activities do not exist in isolation from one another, but are all part of a continuous spectrum, with the same ideology motivating them all. I entirely agree that the fate of one word or one statue is unimportant and can always be justified in one way or another - the point is that it's an incremental, salami-slicing technique to get people used to much more pervasive changes because 'Well, we got rid of those words and no one cared, so why should they care when we do X Y Z...'Gallowgate said:
If you actually paid attention to what I write instead of dismissing it all as "woke nonsense" you would know that I have continuously opposed the removal of monuments and the "cancelling" of historical figures.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.3 -
If you believe this - which imo is florid in the extreme but let's go with it - you have no choice but to leap upon every single change of a word, to a street name, to a habit or custom, and fight it. Fight it with everything you've got until you are completely spent. You may lose, you probably will, but you will at least be able in 40 50 years time, with the woke world established all around you, to point at it and tell your grandkids, "See all this shit? Nothing to do with me. I took a rebel stand. Ask your dad."BluestBlue said:
Then you should appreciate that all these activities do not exist in isolation from one another, but are all part of a continuous spectrum, with the same ideology motivating them all. I entirely agree that the fate of one word or one statue is unimportant and can always be justified in one way or another - the point is that it's an incremental, salami-slicing technique to get people used to much more pervasive changes because 'Well, we got rid of those words and no one cared, so why should they care when we do X Y Z...'Gallowgate said:
If you actually paid attention to what I write instead of dismissing it all as "woke nonsense" you would know that I have continuously opposed the removal of monuments and the "cancelling" of historical figures.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.0 -
Whats really *really* funny about Trump isn't that he has an IQ of 86, but that despite the massive failings he has demonstrated and the world either scratching its head of laughing America, there are tens of millions of people who will vote for *that*.
If the answer is Trump, what is the question?1 -
Free people making free arguments using free speech without government sanction . . . how is that not libertarian?TOPPING said:
So you are seeking to influence others' use of language because of your particular belief of what constitutes decency. Not 1/100% sure exactly how libertarian that is.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't believe in sanction no. I don't believe sanction is necessary. Why would there need to be sanction?TOPPING said:
No indeed but one man's common decency....Philip_Thompson said:
What legal instrument?TOPPING said:
How would you phrase the legal instrument and what would be the penalties for disobeying?Philip_Thompson said:
There's plenty of combinations. I like allowlist/blocklist.MaxPB said:
Some companies already use safelist/blocklist. I'm really not sure it makes much of a difference.RobD said:
allowlist and denylist seem reasonable, if a bit awkward.eek said:
My only problem with the words blacklist / whitelist is finding replacements that don't cause bigger issues during development.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
Really there's no reason not to change this at all. Its just simple decency this one.
Common decency doesn't require a legal instrument.
The discussion, perfectly summed up by @MaxPB, is facile.
Don't use the words fine. But you are banging on about (society, presumably) changing. Unless all you are doing is posturing, or you advocate some sanction, it is indeed facile for you to tell everyone how they should be talking.
Society can change through people's actions it doesn't need government sanctions to evolve change.0 -
True, you have to back some losers to keep the punters happy! But it was via Fraser Nelson who seems perpetually offended by trivia.RobD said:
I don't think that was the case this time.noneoftheabove said:
On each of these debates Id be happy to back odds of 1.3 that the person who started the conversation on here was resistant to the change. They are the true posturers and snow flakes, not those who engage with them in discussion.TOPPING said:
No indeed but one man's common decency....Philip_Thompson said:
What legal instrument?TOPPING said:
How would you phrase the legal instrument and what would be the penalties for disobeying?Philip_Thompson said:
There's plenty of combinations. I like allowlist/blocklist.MaxPB said:
Some companies already use safelist/blocklist. I'm really not sure it makes much of a difference.RobD said:
allowlist and denylist seem reasonable, if a bit awkward.eek said:
My only problem with the words blacklist / whitelist is finding replacements that don't cause bigger issues during development.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
Really there's no reason not to change this at all. Its just simple decency this one.
Common decency doesn't require a legal instrument.
The discussion, perfectly summed up by @MaxPB, is facile.
Don't use the words fine. But you are banging on about (society, presumably) changing. Unless all you are doing is posturing, or you advocate some sanction, it is indeed facile for you to tell everyone how they should be talking.1 -
I think you might be over-analysing... this is a Trump tweet, after all.Philip_Thompson said:
Is it?Richard_Nabavi said:
I suppose if you say it out loud it's 'For the one hundredth time..'.TheScreamingEagles said:Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
1/100 is one hundredth
100th is one hundredth
1/100th isn't is it?0 -
The operators of these vans delivering for Amazon are sons of Satan. They are the mill and mine owners of the 21st century.DecrepiterJohnL said:
This morning there was an unmarked delivery van going down the road dropping off Amazon packages. Whether this is an entrepreneurial startup delivery service taking advantage of the boom in online shopping, or a new security measure, I could not say.TheScreamingEagles said:I tell you what we do need a word for.
The sadness that follows the happiness when you order something wonderful and then discover it is going to be delivered either by Yodel or Hermes.
A driver was telling me yesterday (socially distanced of course) he earns £85 a day on average, delivering a specified number of packages. He was getting around £120 during Covid for the same hours and number of drops. He said he is well below minimum wage, but that's ok because he is "self employed". He gets a phonecall before midnight to confirm his work for the following day. Shameful, but it's the future!0 -
100th = hundredth?Philip_Thompson said:
Is it?Richard_Nabavi said:
I suppose if you say it out loud it's 'For the one hundredth time..'.TheScreamingEagles said:Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
1/100 is one hundredth
100th is one hundredth
1/100th isn't is it?0 -
It is the effective but informal repression via sackings, disciplinary hearings and boycotts that are the biggest problem.Philip_Thompson said:
Free people making free arguments using free speech without government sanction . . . how is that not libertarian?TOPPING said:
So you are seeking to influence others' use of language because of your particular belief of what constitutes decency. Not 1/100% sure exactly how libertarian that is.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't believe in sanction no. I don't believe sanction is necessary. Why would there need to be sanction?TOPPING said:
No indeed but one man's common decency....Philip_Thompson said:
What legal instrument?TOPPING said:
How would you phrase the legal instrument and what would be the penalties for disobeying?Philip_Thompson said:
There's plenty of combinations. I like allowlist/blocklist.MaxPB said:
Some companies already use safelist/blocklist. I'm really not sure it makes much of a difference.RobD said:
allowlist and denylist seem reasonable, if a bit awkward.eek said:
My only problem with the words blacklist / whitelist is finding replacements that don't cause bigger issues during development.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
Really there's no reason not to change this at all. Its just simple decency this one.
Common decency doesn't require a legal instrument.
The discussion, perfectly summed up by @MaxPB, is facile.
Don't use the words fine. But you are banging on about (society, presumably) changing. Unless all you are doing is posturing, or you advocate some sanction, it is indeed facile for you to tell everyone how they should be talking.
Society can change through people's actions it doesn't need government sanctions to evolve change.2 -
Many years ago , working for the Police, we were all sent on a course after the , Stephen Lawrence enquiry. We were told not to use the phrase nitty gritty, which many were surprised at.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, you have to call it A Tale of the Forecastle or something else in America.Peter_the_Punter said:
Is it still possible to read The Nigger of the Narcissus without being hissed at?TheScreamingEagles said:
I guess you must fume at things like 'And Then There Were None' as the new name for an Agatha Christie novel.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.
I read many years ago when the FBI were tracking a white supremacist group they used to refer to the title of the book as a euphemism for assaulting African Americans.
Since then I have heard it used many times on the media including the BBC.
0 -
Well you are using moral suasion, seeking to impose your world view and beliefs on someone else which doesn't sound particularly libertarian. But maybe I've got the definition of libertarian all wrong.Philip_Thompson said:
Free people making free arguments using free speech without government sanction . . . how is that not libertarian?TOPPING said:
So you are seeking to influence others' use of language because of your particular belief of what constitutes decency. Not 1/100% sure exactly how libertarian that is.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't believe in sanction no. I don't believe sanction is necessary. Why would there need to be sanction?TOPPING said:
No indeed but one man's common decency....Philip_Thompson said:
What legal instrument?TOPPING said:
How would you phrase the legal instrument and what would be the penalties for disobeying?Philip_Thompson said:
There's plenty of combinations. I like allowlist/blocklist.MaxPB said:
Some companies already use safelist/blocklist. I'm really not sure it makes much of a difference.RobD said:
allowlist and denylist seem reasonable, if a bit awkward.eek said:
My only problem with the words blacklist / whitelist is finding replacements that don't cause bigger issues during development.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
Really there's no reason not to change this at all. Its just simple decency this one.
Common decency doesn't require a legal instrument.
The discussion, perfectly summed up by @MaxPB, is facile.
Don't use the words fine. But you are banging on about (society, presumably) changing. Unless all you are doing is posturing, or you advocate some sanction, it is indeed facile for you to tell everyone how they should be talking.
Society can change through people's actions it doesn't need government sanctions to evolve change.0 -
"....he finds the man displaying a pained expression while trying toRichard_Nabavi said:
I think you might be over-analysing... this is a Trump tweet, after all.Philip_Thompson said:
Is it?Richard_Nabavi said:
I suppose if you say it out loud it's 'For the one hundredth time..'.TheScreamingEagles said:Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
1/100 is one hundredth
100th is one hundredth
1/100th isn't is it?
read Turing's dissertation on the Universal Machine. He looks like a lower
primate trying to fly an aeroplane."1 -
Have to be careful with expressions like that, could get a black mark against your name.Yorkcity said:
Many years ago , working for the Police, we were all sent on a course after the , Stephen Lawrence enguiry. We were told not to use the phrase nitty gritty, which many were surprised at.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, you have to call it A Tale of the Forecastle or something else in America.Peter_the_Punter said:
Is it still possible to read The Nigger of the Narcissus without being hissed at?TheScreamingEagles said:
I guess you must fume at things like 'And Then There Were None' as the new name for an Agatha Christie novel.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.
I read many years ago when the FBI were tracking a white supremacist group they used to refer to the title of the book as a euphemism for assaulting African Americans.
Since then I have heard it used many times on the media including the BBC.1 -
It will be my greatest pleasure to be able to say sokinabalu said:
If you believe this - which imo is florid in the extreme but let's go with it - you have no choice but to leap upon every single change of a word, to a street name, to a habit or custom, and fight it. Fight it with everything you've got until you are completely spent. You may lose, you probably will, but you will at least be able in 40 50 years time, with the woke world established all around you, to point at it and tell your grandkids, "See all this shit? Nothing to do with me. I took a rebel stand. Ask your dad."BluestBlue said:
Then you should appreciate that all these activities do not exist in isolation from one another, but are all part of a continuous spectrum, with the same ideology motivating them all. I entirely agree that the fate of one word or one statue is unimportant and can always be justified in one way or another - the point is that it's an incremental, salami-slicing technique to get people used to much more pervasive changes because 'Well, we got rid of those words and no one cared, so why should they care when we do X Y Z...'Gallowgate said:
If you actually paid attention to what I write instead of dismissing it all as "woke nonsense" you would know that I have continuously opposed the removal of monuments and the "cancelling" of historical figures.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.
0 -
Niggardly is now unallowed, despite having no etymological link to the N-wordYorkcity said:
Many years ago , working for the Police, we were all sent on a course after the , Stephen Lawrence enguiry. We were told not to use the phrase nitty gritty, which many were surprised at.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, you have to call it A Tale of the Forecastle or something else in America.Peter_the_Punter said:
Is it still possible to read The Nigger of the Narcissus without being hissed at?TheScreamingEagles said:
I guess you must fume at things like 'And Then There Were None' as the new name for an Agatha Christie novel.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.
I read many years ago when the FBI were tracking a white supremacist group they used to refer to the title of the book as a euphemism for assaulting African Americans.
Since then I have heard it used many times on the media including the BBC.0 -
You'll be pleased to know that nitty-gritty gets a clean bill of health:Yorkcity said:
Many years ago , working for the Police, we were all sent on a course after the , Stephen Lawrence enquiry. We were told not to use the phrase nitty gritty, which many were surprised at.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, you have to call it A Tale of the Forecastle or something else in America.Peter_the_Punter said:
Is it still possible to read The Nigger of the Narcissus without being hissed at?TheScreamingEagles said:
I guess you must fume at things like 'And Then There Were None' as the new name for an Agatha Christie novel.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.
I read many years ago when the FBI were tracking a white supremacist group they used to refer to the title of the book as a euphemism for assaulting African Americans.
Since then I have heard it used many times on the media including the BBC.
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nitty-gritty.html0 -
In which case he is also breaking regulations on working hours driving! I think is 9 hours max per day, £8.72 min wage so £85 is over it if he is legal?Mexicanpete said:
The operators of these vans delivering for Amazon are sons of Satan. They are the mill and mine owners of the 21st century.DecrepiterJohnL said:
This morning there was an unmarked delivery van going down the road dropping off Amazon packages. Whether this is an entrepreneurial startup delivery service taking advantage of the boom in online shopping, or a new security measure, I could not say.TheScreamingEagles said:I tell you what we do need a word for.
The sadness that follows the happiness when you order something wonderful and then discover it is going to be delivered either by Yodel or Hermes.
A driver was telling me yesterday (socially distanced of course) he earns £85 a day on average, delivering a specified number of packages. He was getting around £120 during Covid for the same hours and number of drops. He said he is well below minimum wage, but that's ok because he is "self employed". He gets a phonecall before midnight to confirm his work for the following day. Shameful, but it's the future!0 -
J S Mills rejects attempts, either through legal coercion or social pressure, to coerce people's opinions and behavior. He would be anti-Woke. A true liberal.Philip_Thompson said:
Free people making free arguments using free speech without government sanction . . . how is that not libertarian?TOPPING said:
So you are seeking to influence others' use of language because of your particular belief of what constitutes decency. Not 1/100% sure exactly how libertarian that is.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't believe in sanction no. I don't believe sanction is necessary. Why would there need to be sanction?TOPPING said:
No indeed but one man's common decency....Philip_Thompson said:
What legal instrument?TOPPING said:
How would you phrase the legal instrument and what would be the penalties for disobeying?Philip_Thompson said:
There's plenty of combinations. I like allowlist/blocklist.MaxPB said:
Some companies already use safelist/blocklist. I'm really not sure it makes much of a difference.RobD said:
allowlist and denylist seem reasonable, if a bit awkward.eek said:
My only problem with the words blacklist / whitelist is finding replacements that don't cause bigger issues during development.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
Really there's no reason not to change this at all. Its just simple decency this one.
Common decency doesn't require a legal instrument.
The discussion, perfectly summed up by @MaxPB, is facile.
Don't use the words fine. But you are banging on about (society, presumably) changing. Unless all you are doing is posturing, or you advocate some sanction, it is indeed facile for you to tell everyone how they should be talking.
Society can change through people's actions it doesn't need government sanctions to evolve change.0 -
Of course one thing which is funnier is that we are overwhelmingly not BAME on here shouting the odds over what is offensive to BAME people.
(I know, I know, "BAME" is on its way out)
Edit: I wouldn't dare to presume how @TheScreamingEagles or @MaxPB describe themselves of course.0 -
You also have to take into account which taxes are used. (Almost) every tax reduces economic activity/growth thanks to the "tax wedge" (activity which would happen at the margins before and is no longer viable - eg, if you make something for 60p per item when all costs are taken into account and can get 70p per item when selling it (people are willing to pay 70p per item), the activity is viable; if there's a 15p per item tax on it, the activity isn't viable). That reduction differs for different taxes.Gallowgate said:On taxation: my instinct is that it should be agreed as widely as possible, as a society, what a fair tax system looks like, and at what point, if any, higher earners pay more. Then any tax rise (or cut) should be applied equally across everyone (as a percentage).
I know this is more difficult than tinkering around the edges but surely it's the most sustainable solution.
But the different taxes also have different impacts on different demographics and can be more or less politically acceptable, and easier or less easy to evade.
Worst impact to least impact: Tax on financial transactions (which can dramatically lower economic activity), then tax on corporate profits, then progressive income taxes (because richer people can more easily forgo income than poorer people), then flat rate income taxes, then consumption taxes, then taxes on immovable property. A variety of the latter (Land Value Tax) is unique in having a positive effect on growth (as well as being remarkably hard to evade, unless you can squirrel away parcels of UK land in an overseas tax haven somehow...).
But shifting things down the scale is both politically challenging and can have other negative effects.
1 -
That's true. If you were trapped in a room in Greece for 14 days you ought to be able to craft at least a handful of reasonably solid posts.TOPPING said:
Yes that is the bottom line. Hmmmm. Plenty of posting time on PB, that said!Gallowgate said:
I'm moderate risk (on immune suppression) but have been frequenting supermarkets and have even been dating (with the lack of social distancing that entails). So I guess I have been exposing myself to risk.TOPPING said:
Noted. But you are presumably fit and healthy now? And you have said how you haven't exposed yourself to risk? So.....???Gallowgate said:
Not in any way.TOPPING said:
Here's a moral conundrum for you - I booked (ages ago) to go to Greece on July 19th for a week. Four days after Greece is expected to let flights from the UK resume.isam said:I really couldn’t be bothered to go on holiday if there are a million COVIDrules and regulations to adhere to, hardly relaxing. Airports are a horror show at the best of times. Now they must be horrendous... and you can’t get a drink!
Greece's policy is to randomly test arrivals and, if they are found to be positive, to send them for 14 days to a "Quarantine Hotel".
So the gamble is go, test negative, have holiday all good; or go, test positive, not only not have holiday but be banged up in some Greek run hostel with food shoved under your door for two weeks.
Would you roll the dice?
Regardless I wouldn't gamble with flying 3 hours to be banged up in a Greek hostel for two weeks.0 -
These umpires are a bit, ermmm, rusty
0 -
If you account for wear and tear on the vehicle and the fuel, it's probably below.noneoftheabove said:
In which case he is also breaking regulations on working hours driving! I think is 9 hours max per day, £8.72 min wage so £85 is over it if he is legal?Mexicanpete said:
The operators of these vans delivering for Amazon are sons of Satan. They are the mill and mine owners of the 21st century.DecrepiterJohnL said:
This morning there was an unmarked delivery van going down the road dropping off Amazon packages. Whether this is an entrepreneurial startup delivery service taking advantage of the boom in online shopping, or a new security measure, I could not say.TheScreamingEagles said:I tell you what we do need a word for.
The sadness that follows the happiness when you order something wonderful and then discover it is going to be delivered either by Yodel or Hermes.
A driver was telling me yesterday (socially distanced of course) he earns £85 a day on average, delivering a specified number of packages. He was getting around £120 during Covid for the same hours and number of drops. He said he is well below minimum wage, but that's ok because he is "self employed". He gets a phonecall before midnight to confirm his work for the following day. Shameful, but it's the future!1 -
There won't be a woke world because the woke are a minority. You just imagine you aren't because its a noisy one. Most normal people just roll their eyes and sigh and ignore you and carry on as normal. Another ideology destined for the dustbin of history.kinabalu said:
If you believe this - which imo is florid in the extreme but let's go with it - you have no choice but to leap upon every single change of a word, to a street name, to a habit or custom, and fight it. Fight it with everything you've got until you are completely spent. You may lose, you probably will, but you will at least be able in 40 50 years time, with the woke world established all around you, to point at it and tell your grandkids, "See all this shit? Nothing to do with me. I took a rebel stand. Ask your dad."BluestBlue said:
Then you should appreciate that all these activities do not exist in isolation from one another, but are all part of a continuous spectrum, with the same ideology motivating them all. I entirely agree that the fate of one word or one statue is unimportant and can always be justified in one way or another - the point is that it's an incremental, salami-slicing technique to get people used to much more pervasive changes because 'Well, we got rid of those words and no one cared, so why should they care when we do X Y Z...'Gallowgate said:
If you actually paid attention to what I write instead of dismissing it all as "woke nonsense" you would know that I have continuously opposed the removal of monuments and the "cancelling" of historical figures.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.0 -
You just said it, will anything happen? No, very little is actually "unallowed", all that happens is others will judge people on their words as they have always done.LadyG said:
Niggardly is now unallowed, despite having no etymological link to the N-wordYorkcity said:
Many years ago , working for the Police, we were all sent on a course after the , Stephen Lawrence enguiry. We were told not to use the phrase nitty gritty, which many were surprised at.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, you have to call it A Tale of the Forecastle or something else in America.Peter_the_Punter said:
Is it still possible to read The Nigger of the Narcissus without being hissed at?TheScreamingEagles said:
I guess you must fume at things like 'And Then There Were None' as the new name for an Agatha Christie novel.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.
I read many years ago when the FBI were tracking a white supremacist group they used to refer to the title of the book as a euphemism for assaulting African Americans.
Since then I have heard it used many times on the media including the BBC.1 -
That's interesting - I don't see a problem with shopping etc. I would just go at quiet times as i have throughout, though I have avoid mega-supermarkets and stick to medium-sized Aldi etc (say 15 sqft) which i can find almost empty with no queue if timed I will continue similarly, despite having just moved to the shielding list - if visiting with another household is fine, then this is low enough risk.Gallowgate said:
I'm avoiding going shopping, to the pub, or a restaurant simply because social distancing is crap. I'd much rather just have friends round for coffee or beers.WhisperingOracle said:
Yes, all of these ; the traditional habits of socialising which people still seem to be cautiously ditching, as well as tourism and domestic travel, and all spending associated with leaving the house. This is affecting the whole of Europe, and beyond obviously, too.Gallowgate said:
What sort of things are you referring to? Going to the pub? Shopping on the high street?WhisperingOracle said:I think we're at the moment of a psychological crisis, in the sense of the psychology behind economics, as much as anything else.
It had been largely expected that people would start to resume old habits once facilities were unlocked, but, so far at least, that's not happening on anything like the level anticipated. If this doesn't start to change, with an explosion of better weather and August, we're in for some very rocky times ahead.
Summer hot weather might turn out to be very important in changing the economic psychology if we escape the worst end of predictions ; it makes sitting in the house continually almost insufferable, for a start, but it also tends to prime people into a more optimistic and outgoing mood.
Had my first coffee out last week, but our local park visitor centre are obviously members of the slow-cheese-toastie movement.
0 -
A WHAT!!!Pulpstar said:
Have to be careful with expressions like that, could get a black mark against your name.Yorkcity said:
Many years ago , working for the Police, we were all sent on a course after the , Stephen Lawrence enguiry. We were told not to use the phrase nitty gritty, which many were surprised at.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, you have to call it A Tale of the Forecastle or something else in America.Peter_the_Punter said:
Is it still possible to read The Nigger of the Narcissus without being hissed at?TheScreamingEagles said:
I guess you must fume at things like 'And Then There Were None' as the new name for an Agatha Christie novel.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.
I read many years ago when the FBI were tracking a white supremacist group they used to refer to the title of the book as a euphemism for assaulting African Americans.
Since then I have heard it used many times on the media including the BBC.0 -
RobD said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
Is it something so simple and obvious that it requires me to go wear a dunce's cap for the rest of the month?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1281206354334625793
Perhaps it means there will be a further 99 tweets on the subject further explaining the position?0 -
No, he's right.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes.TheScreamingEagles said:Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
Is it something so simple and obvious that it requires me to go wear a dunce's cap for the rest of the month?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1281206354334625793
Trump is an innumerate fool.
Simply and obvious. Here is your cap 💩
If no one is tested then no cases are confirmed. Deaths are a slightly stickier point, but if Covid fatalities are recorded as pneumonia, the fatalities are nil.
Covid-19 eradicated. Re-elect that man!0 -
The Minority Report will list him as committing PreCrime....OldKingCole said:
A WHAT!!!Pulpstar said:
Have to be careful with expressions like that, could get a black mark against your name.Yorkcity said:
Many years ago , working for the Police, we were all sent on a course after the , Stephen Lawrence enguiry. We were told not to use the phrase nitty gritty, which many were surprised at.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, you have to call it A Tale of the Forecastle or something else in America.Peter_the_Punter said:
Is it still possible to read The Nigger of the Narcissus without being hissed at?TheScreamingEagles said:
I guess you must fume at things like 'And Then There Were None' as the new name for an Agatha Christie novel.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.
I read many years ago when the FBI were tracking a white supremacist group they used to refer to the title of the book as a euphemism for assaulting African Americans.
Since then I have heard it used many times on the media including the BBC.
No, wait....0 -
I agree; given your posts today deflection is probably the best strategy.kinabalu said:
That's true. If you were trapped in a room in Greece for 14 days you ought to be able to craft at least a handful of reasonably solid posts.TOPPING said:
Yes that is the bottom line. Hmmmm. Plenty of posting time on PB, that said!Gallowgate said:
I'm moderate risk (on immune suppression) but have been frequenting supermarkets and have even been dating (with the lack of social distancing that entails). So I guess I have been exposing myself to risk.TOPPING said:
Noted. But you are presumably fit and healthy now? And you have said how you haven't exposed yourself to risk? So.....???Gallowgate said:
Not in any way.TOPPING said:
Here's a moral conundrum for you - I booked (ages ago) to go to Greece on July 19th for a week. Four days after Greece is expected to let flights from the UK resume.isam said:I really couldn’t be bothered to go on holiday if there are a million COVIDrules and regulations to adhere to, hardly relaxing. Airports are a horror show at the best of times. Now they must be horrendous... and you can’t get a drink!
Greece's policy is to randomly test arrivals and, if they are found to be positive, to send them for 14 days to a "Quarantine Hotel".
So the gamble is go, test negative, have holiday all good; or go, test positive, not only not have holiday but be banged up in some Greek run hostel with food shoved under your door for two weeks.
Would you roll the dice?
Regardless I wouldn't gamble with flying 3 hours to be banged up in a Greek hostel for two weeks.0 -
No it isn't. An army of diseasal vans touring every city town and village all day every day is not sustainable on so many levels - and the crappy employment enjoyed* by the driver is fairly low down the list. We have barely scratched the surface when it comes to direct to consumer sales, so a solution will have to be found to make this last mile party viable.Mexicanpete said:
The operators of these vans delivering for Amazon are sons of Satan. They are the mill and mine owners of the 21st century.DecrepiterJohnL said:
This morning there was an unmarked delivery van going down the road dropping off Amazon packages. Whether this is an entrepreneurial startup delivery service taking advantage of the boom in online shopping, or a new security measure, I could not say.TheScreamingEagles said:I tell you what we do need a word for.
The sadness that follows the happiness when you order something wonderful and then discover it is going to be delivered either by Yodel or Hermes.
A driver was telling me yesterday (socially distanced of course) he earns £85 a day on average, delivering a specified number of packages. He was getting around £120 during Covid for the same hours and number of drops. He said he is well below minimum wage, but that's ok because he is "self employed". He gets a phonecall before midnight to confirm his work for the following day. Shameful, but it's the future!
Amazon. Ebay. B2C. Supermarkets. They can't all have separate last mile delivery networks all overlapping and on top of each other. I've had 3 separate Amazon drops in 1 day off a single order - madness. I'm not sure what the solution is - convenience stores as collection hubs? Get Tesco to deliver your Amazon package with your shopping? Whatever, an army of slaves in diesels cannot be allowed to continue.0 -
True, it would be well below if those are his earnings are pre fuel and other costs.Gallowgate said:
If you account for wear and tear on the vehicle and the fuel, it's probably below.noneoftheabove said:
In which case he is also breaking regulations on working hours driving! I think is 9 hours max per day, £8.72 min wage so £85 is over it if he is legal?Mexicanpete said:
The operators of these vans delivering for Amazon are sons of Satan. They are the mill and mine owners of the 21st century.DecrepiterJohnL said:
This morning there was an unmarked delivery van going down the road dropping off Amazon packages. Whether this is an entrepreneurial startup delivery service taking advantage of the boom in online shopping, or a new security measure, I could not say.TheScreamingEagles said:I tell you what we do need a word for.
The sadness that follows the happiness when you order something wonderful and then discover it is going to be delivered either by Yodel or Hermes.
A driver was telling me yesterday (socially distanced of course) he earns £85 a day on average, delivering a specified number of packages. He was getting around £120 during Covid for the same hours and number of drops. He said he is well below minimum wage, but that's ok because he is "self employed". He gets a phonecall before midnight to confirm his work for the following day. Shameful, but it's the future!0 -
Perhaps if it's a black tic not a cross it will suddenly become acceptable; there are plenty stupid enough for that kind of distinction.OldKingCole said:
A WHAT!!!Pulpstar said:
Have to be careful with expressions like that, could get a black mark against your name.Yorkcity said:
Many years ago , working for the Police, we were all sent on a course after the , Stephen Lawrence enguiry. We were told not to use the phrase nitty gritty, which many were surprised at.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, you have to call it A Tale of the Forecastle or something else in America.Peter_the_Punter said:
Is it still possible to read The Nigger of the Narcissus without being hissed at?TheScreamingEagles said:
I guess you must fume at things like 'And Then There Were None' as the new name for an Agatha Christie novel.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.
I read many years ago when the FBI were tracking a white supremacist group they used to refer to the title of the book as a euphemism for assaulting African Americans.
Since then I have heard it used many times on the media including the BBC.0 -
Sorry, when I said "shopping" I meant like clothes shopping, rather than food shopping. I do my food shopping at a Tesco Extra that was at one point the biggest supermarket in the country.MattW said:
That's interesting - I don't see a problem with shopping etc. I would just go at quiet times as i have throughout, though I have avoid mega-supermarkets and stick to medium-sized Aldi etc (say 15 sqft) which i can find almost empty with no queue if timed I will continue similarly, despite having just moved to the shielding list - if visiting with another household is fine, then this is low enough risk.Gallowgate said:
I'm avoiding going shopping, to the pub, or a restaurant simply because social distancing is crap. I'd much rather just have friends round for coffee or beers.WhisperingOracle said:
Yes, all of these ; the traditional habits of socialising which people still seem to be cautiously ditching, as well as tourism and domestic travel, and all spending associated with leaving the house. This is affecting the whole of Europe, and beyond obviously, too.Gallowgate said:
What sort of things are you referring to? Going to the pub? Shopping on the high street?WhisperingOracle said:I think we're at the moment of a psychological crisis, in the sense of the psychology behind economics, as much as anything else.
It had been largely expected that people would start to resume old habits once facilities were unlocked, but, so far at least, that's not happening on anything like the level anticipated. If this doesn't start to change, with an explosion of better weather and August, we're in for some very rocky times ahead.
Summer hot weather might turn out to be very important in changing the economic psychology if we escape the worst end of predictions ; it makes sitting in the house continually almost insufferable, for a start, but it also tends to prime people into a more optimistic and outgoing mood.
Had my first coffee out last week, but our local park visitor centre are obviously members of the slow-cheese-toastie movement.1 -
Amazon are trialling an option to consolidate your orders to a single delivery slot.RochdalePioneers said:
No it isn't. An army of diseasal vans touring every city town and village all day every day is not sustainable on so many levels - and the crappy employment enjoyed* by the driver is fairly low down the list. We have barely scratched the surface when it comes to direct to consumer sales, so a solution will have to be found to make this last mile party viable.Mexicanpete said:
The operators of these vans delivering for Amazon are sons of Satan. They are the mill and mine owners of the 21st century.DecrepiterJohnL said:
This morning there was an unmarked delivery van going down the road dropping off Amazon packages. Whether this is an entrepreneurial startup delivery service taking advantage of the boom in online shopping, or a new security measure, I could not say.TheScreamingEagles said:I tell you what we do need a word for.
The sadness that follows the happiness when you order something wonderful and then discover it is going to be delivered either by Yodel or Hermes.
A driver was telling me yesterday (socially distanced of course) he earns £85 a day on average, delivering a specified number of packages. He was getting around £120 during Covid for the same hours and number of drops. He said he is well below minimum wage, but that's ok because he is "self employed". He gets a phonecall before midnight to confirm his work for the following day. Shameful, but it's the future!
Amazon. Ebay. B2C. Supermarkets. They can't all have separate last mile delivery networks all overlapping and on top of each other. I've had 3 separate Amazon drops in 1 day off a single order - madness. I'm not sure what the solution is - convenience stores as collection hubs? Get Tesco to deliver your Amazon package with your shopping? Whatever, an army of slaves in diesels cannot be allowed to continue.
0 -
Im sure that was the default option five years ago!Malmesbury said:
Amazon are trialling an option to consolidate your orders to a single delivery slot.RochdalePioneers said:
No it isn't. An army of diseasal vans touring every city town and village all day every day is not sustainable on so many levels - and the crappy employment enjoyed* by the driver is fairly low down the list. We have barely scratched the surface when it comes to direct to consumer sales, so a solution will have to be found to make this last mile party viable.Mexicanpete said:
The operators of these vans delivering for Amazon are sons of Satan. They are the mill and mine owners of the 21st century.DecrepiterJohnL said:
This morning there was an unmarked delivery van going down the road dropping off Amazon packages. Whether this is an entrepreneurial startup delivery service taking advantage of the boom in online shopping, or a new security measure, I could not say.TheScreamingEagles said:I tell you what we do need a word for.
The sadness that follows the happiness when you order something wonderful and then discover it is going to be delivered either by Yodel or Hermes.
A driver was telling me yesterday (socially distanced of course) he earns £85 a day on average, delivering a specified number of packages. He was getting around £120 during Covid for the same hours and number of drops. He said he is well below minimum wage, but that's ok because he is "self employed". He gets a phonecall before midnight to confirm his work for the following day. Shameful, but it's the future!
Amazon. Ebay. B2C. Supermarkets. They can't all have separate last mile delivery networks all overlapping and on top of each other. I've had 3 separate Amazon drops in 1 day off a single order - madness. I'm not sure what the solution is - convenience stores as collection hubs? Get Tesco to deliver your Amazon package with your shopping? Whatever, an army of slaves in diesels cannot be allowed to continue.1 -
A vehicle under 3.5 tonnes is not tachocarded so who's to know how many drivers hours have been completed.noneoftheabove said:
In which case he is also breaking regulations on working hours driving! I think is 9 hours max per day, £8.72 min wage so £85 is over it if he is legal?Mexicanpete said:
The operators of these vans delivering for Amazon are sons of Satan. They are the mill and mine owners of the 21st century.DecrepiterJohnL said:
This morning there was an unmarked delivery van going down the road dropping off Amazon packages. Whether this is an entrepreneurial startup delivery service taking advantage of the boom in online shopping, or a new security measure, I could not say.TheScreamingEagles said:I tell you what we do need a word for.
The sadness that follows the happiness when you order something wonderful and then discover it is going to be delivered either by Yodel or Hermes.
A driver was telling me yesterday (socially distanced of course) he earns £85 a day on average, delivering a specified number of packages. He was getting around £120 during Covid for the same hours and number of drops. He said he is well below minimum wage, but that's ok because he is "self employed". He gets a phonecall before midnight to confirm his work for the following day. Shameful, but it's the future!0 -
We could invent royal mailRochdalePioneers said:
No it isn't. An army of diseasal vans touring every city town and village all day every day is not sustainable on so many levels - and the crappy employment enjoyed* by the driver is fairly low down the list. We have barely scratched the surface when it comes to direct to consumer sales, so a solution will have to be found to make this last mile party viable.Mexicanpete said:
The operators of these vans delivering for Amazon are sons of Satan. They are the mill and mine owners of the 21st century.DecrepiterJohnL said:
This morning there was an unmarked delivery van going down the road dropping off Amazon packages. Whether this is an entrepreneurial startup delivery service taking advantage of the boom in online shopping, or a new security measure, I could not say.TheScreamingEagles said:I tell you what we do need a word for.
The sadness that follows the happiness when you order something wonderful and then discover it is going to be delivered either by Yodel or Hermes.
A driver was telling me yesterday (socially distanced of course) he earns £85 a day on average, delivering a specified number of packages. He was getting around £120 during Covid for the same hours and number of drops. He said he is well below minimum wage, but that's ok because he is "self employed". He gets a phonecall before midnight to confirm his work for the following day. Shameful, but it's the future!
Amazon. Ebay. B2C. Supermarkets. They can't all have separate last mile delivery networks all overlapping and on top of each other. I've had 3 separate Amazon drops in 1 day off a single order - madness. I'm not sure what the solution is - convenience stores as collection hubs? Get Tesco to deliver your Amazon package with your shopping? Whatever, an army of slaves in diesels cannot be allowed to continue.2 -
Just as an aside, when I was world-building for Bane of Souls (available from Amazon and elsewhere for an astonishingly low price, under the pen name Thaddeus White) I deliberately made Highford, the city, very cosmopolitan, at the corner of three different lands. Which then led me to an interesting question: how to handle race and racism in a roughly medieval fantasy setting?
I decided to take the Avenue Q approach and make everyone a little bit racist. Can be useful for world-building. Currently reading Steven Brust's The Book of Jhereg, and there's some anti-human racism in there too.0 -
Thanks for the linkRobD said:
You'll be pleased to know that nitty-gritty gets a clean bill of health:Yorkcity said:
Many years ago , working for the Police, we were all sent on a course after the , Stephen Lawrence enquiry. We were told not to use the phrase nitty gritty, which many were surprised at.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, you have to call it A Tale of the Forecastle or something else in America.Peter_the_Punter said:
Is it still possible to read The Nigger of the Narcissus without being hissed at?TheScreamingEagles said:
I guess you must fume at things like 'And Then There Were None' as the new name for an Agatha Christie novel.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.
I read many years ago when the FBI were tracking a white supremacist group they used to refer to the title of the book as a euphemism for assaulting African Americans.
Since then I have heard it used many times on the media including the BBC.
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nitty-gritty.html
Much appreciated.
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Deliverue.TheScreamingEagles said:I tell you what we do need a word for.
The sadness that follows the happiness when you order something wonderful and then discover it is going to be delivered either by Yodel or Hermes.8 -
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I forgot to mention 6.00 til 18.00. The first hour or so is sorting and loading..noneoftheabove said:
In which case he is also breaking regulations on working hours driving! I think is 9 hours max per day, £8.72 min wage so £85 is over it if he is legal?Mexicanpete said:
The operators of these vans delivering for Amazon are sons of Satan. They are the mill and mine owners of the 21st century.DecrepiterJohnL said:
This morning there was an unmarked delivery van going down the road dropping off Amazon packages. Whether this is an entrepreneurial startup delivery service taking advantage of the boom in online shopping, or a new security measure, I could not say.TheScreamingEagles said:I tell you what we do need a word for.
The sadness that follows the happiness when you order something wonderful and then discover it is going to be delivered either by Yodel or Hermes.
A driver was telling me yesterday (socially distanced of course) he earns £85 a day on average, delivering a specified number of packages. He was getting around £120 during Covid for the same hours and number of drops. He said he is well below minimum wage, but that's ok because he is "self employed". He gets a phonecall before midnight to confirm his work for the following day. Shameful, but it's the future!0 -
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I heard it might be on the coffee without milk list soonYorkcity said:
Many years ago , working for the Police, we were all sent on a course after the , Stephen Lawrence enquiry. We were told not to use the phrase nitty gritty, which many were surprised at.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, you have to call it A Tale of the Forecastle or something else in America.Peter_the_Punter said:
Is it still possible to read The Nigger of the Narcissus without being hissed at?TheScreamingEagles said:
I guess you must fume at things like 'And Then There Were None' as the new name for an Agatha Christie novel.BluestBlue said:
I just explained why it matters. There's an entire global movement busy effacing or censoring monuments and cancelling historical figures on solipsistic grounds. Now they're moving effortlessly on to the heart of culture: language, books, art, authors, academics, public figures, films etc. I think they should be resisted, others will just lie down in front of their cultural steamroller for the sake of a quiet life. Your choice; others will make their own.Gallowgate said:
As I've previously stated, I don't really care. I'll use whitelist, or blacklist, or allowlist, or blocklist. I don't care because it doesn't matter.BluestBlue said:
Your way of 'arguing' is incredibly dense - what I have an emotional bond with is the principle that ordinary linguistic usages should not be effaced simply to pander to the offense-seeking of woke idiots. I know that you prefer mindless compliance with whatever the last person told you to say or not to say, but not everyone embraces unthinking orthodoxy with such gusto, I'm afraid.Gallowgate said:It's really cute that @BluestBlue seems to have an emotional cultural bond with the word "blacklist". Really demonstrates that they should probably get out more, or get a hobby.
It's just as bad as those who seem to have an obsession with Rachel Riley or JK Rowling. They need to get out more and get a grip.
It really seems to matter to you though and you should probably have a think why.
I read many years ago when the FBI were tracking a white supremacist group they used to refer to the title of the book as a euphemism for assaulting African Americans.
Since then I have heard it used many times on the media including the BBC.0 -
Yes but to capture the unique cadences of Trump speech, it needs to be read as 'the one hundredthth time'.Philip_Thompson said:
Is it?Richard_Nabavi said:
I suppose if you say it out loud it's 'For the one hundredth time..'.TheScreamingEagles said:Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
1/100 is one hundredth
100th is one hundredth
1/100th isn't is it?
To get into the rhythm, try saying 'Chaaaynah' several times beforehand.1 -
I suppose that one divided by one hundredth is actually 100, so perhaps Donald T is setting R4 style puzzle but has lost his second one over.RobD said:
100th = hundredth?Philip_Thompson said:
Is it?Richard_Nabavi said:
I suppose if you say it out loud it's 'For the one hundredth time..'.TheScreamingEagles said:Right, I've looked at this tweet a few times, can someone explain the 1/100th time bit?
1/100 is one hundredth
100th is one hundredth
1/100th isn't is it?0 -
...but, but they're Trumps men! What happens with the hanging chads in November?Scott_xP said:0 -
ONS survey on COVID19 prevalence -
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/latest
"Our latest estimates indicate that at any given time during the two weeks from 22 June to 5 July 2020, an average of 14,000 people in England had the coronavirus (COVID-19) (95% confidence interval: 5,000 to 31,000)1. This equates to 0.03% (95% confidence interval: 0.01% to 0.06%)"
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Harsh but fair. I'm lacking animus - crtl alt del.TOPPING said:
I agree; given your posts today deflection is probably the best strategy.kinabalu said:
That's true. If you were trapped in a room in Greece for 14 days you ought to be able to craft at least a handful of reasonably solid posts.TOPPING said:
Yes that is the bottom line. Hmmmm. Plenty of posting time on PB, that said!Gallowgate said:
I'm moderate risk (on immune suppression) but have been frequenting supermarkets and have even been dating (with the lack of social distancing that entails). So I guess I have been exposing myself to risk.TOPPING said:
Noted. But you are presumably fit and healthy now? And you have said how you haven't exposed yourself to risk? So.....???Gallowgate said:
Not in any way.TOPPING said:
Here's a moral conundrum for you - I booked (ages ago) to go to Greece on July 19th for a week. Four days after Greece is expected to let flights from the UK resume.isam said:I really couldn’t be bothered to go on holiday if there are a million COVIDrules and regulations to adhere to, hardly relaxing. Airports are a horror show at the best of times. Now they must be horrendous... and you can’t get a drink!
Greece's policy is to randomly test arrivals and, if they are found to be positive, to send them for 14 days to a "Quarantine Hotel".
So the gamble is go, test negative, have holiday all good; or go, test positive, not only not have holiday but be banged up in some Greek run hostel with food shoved under your door for two weeks.
Would you roll the dice?
Regardless I wouldn't gamble with flying 3 hours to be banged up in a Greek hostel for two weeks.0 -
At a clinic in Corona, a working-class neighborhood in Queens, more than 68 percent of people tested positive for antibodies to the new coronavirus. At another clinic in Jackson Heights, Queens, that number was 56 percent. But at a clinic in Cobble Hill, a mostly white and wealthy neighborhood in Brooklyn, only 13 percent of people tested positive for antibodies.
NYTimes0 -
Looks like Trump can only rely on Alito and Thomas. It's still a conservative majority SCOTUS, just not a Trump majority one - and nor should it be.Mexicanpete said:
...but, but they're Trumps men! What happens with the hanging chads in November?Scott_xP said:0 -
Not sure how you legislate against it if its structured as business to business but £85 for 12 hours not including petrol is certainly exploitative.Mexicanpete said:
I forgot to mention 6.00 til 18.00. The first hour or so is sorting and loading..noneoftheabove said:
In which case he is also breaking regulations on working hours driving! I think is 9 hours max per day, £8.72 min wage so £85 is over it if he is legal?Mexicanpete said:
The operators of these vans delivering for Amazon are sons of Satan. They are the mill and mine owners of the 21st century.DecrepiterJohnL said:
This morning there was an unmarked delivery van going down the road dropping off Amazon packages. Whether this is an entrepreneurial startup delivery service taking advantage of the boom in online shopping, or a new security measure, I could not say.TheScreamingEagles said:I tell you what we do need a word for.
The sadness that follows the happiness when you order something wonderful and then discover it is going to be delivered either by Yodel or Hermes.
A driver was telling me yesterday (socially distanced of course) he earns £85 a day on average, delivering a specified number of packages. He was getting around £120 during Covid for the same hours and number of drops. He said he is well below minimum wage, but that's ok because he is "self employed". He gets a phonecall before midnight to confirm his work for the following day. Shameful, but it's the future!0 -
That is possibly very, very big news.rottenborough said:At a clinic in Corona, a working-class neighborhood in Queens, more than 68 percent of people tested positive for antibodies to the new coronavirus. At another clinic in Jackson Heights, Queens, that number was 56 percent. But at a clinic in Cobble Hill, a mostly white and wealthy neighborhood in Brooklyn, only 13 percent of people tested positive for antibodies.
NYTimes0 -
The entire tax & legislation system needs ripping up and starting over for today's business, supplier and consumer structures.noneoftheabove said:
Not sure how you legislate against it if its structured as business to business but £85 for 12 hours not including petrol is certainly exploitative.Mexicanpete said:
I forgot to mention 6.00 til 18.00. The first hour or so is sorting and loading..noneoftheabove said:
In which case he is also breaking regulations on working hours driving! I think is 9 hours max per day, £8.72 min wage so £85 is over it if he is legal?Mexicanpete said:
The operators of these vans delivering for Amazon are sons of Satan. They are the mill and mine owners of the 21st century.DecrepiterJohnL said:
This morning there was an unmarked delivery van going down the road dropping off Amazon packages. Whether this is an entrepreneurial startup delivery service taking advantage of the boom in online shopping, or a new security measure, I could not say.TheScreamingEagles said:I tell you what we do need a word for.
The sadness that follows the happiness when you order something wonderful and then discover it is going to be delivered either by Yodel or Hermes.
A driver was telling me yesterday (socially distanced of course) he earns £85 a day on average, delivering a specified number of packages. He was getting around £120 during Covid for the same hours and number of drops. He said he is well below minimum wage, but that's ok because he is "self employed". He gets a phonecall before midnight to confirm his work for the following day. Shameful, but it's the future!2 -
And what are the chances of their actually being released before November ?Scott_xP said:0 -
IF you are dating, you most definitely are exposing yourself to risk - Covid or no Covid!Gallowgate said:
I'm moderate risk (on immune suppression) but have been frequenting supermarkets and have even been dating (with the lack of social distancing that entails). So I guess I have been exposing myself to risk.TOPPING said:
Noted. But you are presumably fit and healthy now? And you have said how you haven't exposed yourself to risk? So.....???Gallowgate said:
Not in any way.TOPPING said:
Here's a moral conundrum for you - I booked (ages ago) to go to Greece on July 19th for a week. Four days after Greece is expected to let flights from the UK resume.isam said:I really couldn’t be bothered to go on holiday if there are a million COVIDrules and regulations to adhere to, hardly relaxing. Airports are a horror show at the best of times. Now they must be horrendous... and you can’t get a drink!
Greece's policy is to randomly test arrivals and, if they are found to be positive, to send them for 14 days to a "Quarantine Hotel".
So the gamble is go, test negative, have holiday all good; or go, test positive, not only not have holiday but be banged up in some Greek run hostel with food shoved under your door for two weeks.
Would you roll the dice?
Regardless I wouldn't gamble with flying 3 hours to be banged up in a Greek hostel for two weeks.0 -
Fascinatingly the suburb is actually called Corona.Anabobazina said:
That is possibly very, very big news.rottenborough said:At a clinic in Corona, a working-class neighborhood in Queens, more than 68 percent of people tested positive for antibodies to the new coronavirus. At another clinic in Jackson Heights, Queens, that number was 56 percent. But at a clinic in Cobble Hill, a mostly white and wealthy neighborhood in Brooklyn, only 13 percent of people tested positive for antibodies.
NYTimes0
This discussion has been closed.