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David Starkey and Priyamvada Gopal.
Discuss.0 -
Re; Trump 2020, seems to me that The Donald is bound and determined to wage a re-run of his last-hour victory four years ago.
Kinda like how the French Army in 1940 wanted to beat the Germans the same way they'd prevailed - after Ludendorf's final throw of the dice (Michael offensive) in 1916.
BUT history rarely repeats itself in that fashion. Second time around, ils ne passeront pas was more than trumped by blitzkieg on the plain of Flanders and the defiles of the Ardennes.
Tulsa alone shows how committed Trumpsky is to his former winning ways. As the good book says, like a dog returnth to its own vomit.
In 2016 he did it his way - and was convinced he was going to lose. He was wrong.
In 2020 he thinks he can do it his way, and win - and methinks he's wrong again.0 -
Are yez talking about a Texas cage match - no ear-biting or eye-gouging until after the opening bell?Andy_JS said:David Starkey and Priyamvada Gopal.
Discuss.0 -
"1916" - typo 19180
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As individual states, and even the American people, adopt Covid-19 measures such as wearing masks (as in the Texas directive mentioned earlier in this thread) it is possible that pandemic and economic trends are running in the right direction come the November election. The fat lady hasn't sung yet.Andy_JS said:
It's going to be close IMO. Pennsylvania could decide it.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
SO how do you think Trumpsky feels?Andy_JS said:
Not the most encouraging of polls for Biden with 4 months to go.HYUFD said:
You think the news will improve for him, based on a) COVID-19 trend; b) ecomomic trend; and c) his disinclination to throw away the shovel and stop digging the hole he's in deeper?0 -
Don't forget the Trump-branded vaccine.DecrepiterJohnL said:
As individual states, and even the American people, adopt Covid-19 measures such as wearing masks (as in the Texas directive mentioned earlier in this thread) it is possible that pandemic and economic trends are running in the right direction come the November election. The fat lady hasn't sung yet.Andy_JS said:
It's going to be close IMO. Pennsylvania could decide it.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
SO how do you think Trumpsky feels?Andy_JS said:
Not the most encouraging of polls for Biden with 4 months to go.HYUFD said:
You think the news will improve for him, based on a) COVID-19 trend; b) ecomomic trend; and c) his disinclination to throw away the shovel and stop digging the hole he's in deeper?
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US Democrat VP -- again there have been some mysterious price changes on Joe Biden being the VP nominee. On Betfair you can back him at 600 and lay him (to small money) at 900. Either someone has a fantastic conspiracy theory or a bot is automatically trading Biden, like non-runners in horse races.0
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As for Whats-Her-Name Maxwell, here in US the Court TV cable channel is ALL over her case. Reporting that she appeared at initial hearing this via zoom proceedings in orange prison jump suit; fashion note "she didn't look disheveled but she sure didn't look put together".
Bail hearing scheduled for Monday, feds will oppose granting her bail on grounds (pretty ample I'd say) that she's a flight risk. Speculation (pretty obvious I'd say) that she may cut some kind of deal with the feds. Attorneys for victims say her arrest is very good news, because she's got all the ledgers, black books and other key documentation that will put some big fish right into DOJ's net.
His Foul Highness Prince Andrew is toast. Won't be long before some courtier is advising him to put his head in an oven - gas or electric - and push the button.
OR maybe take a slow boat to Pitcairn Island - show up wearing a mask & claiming to be Fletcher Christian's 14th cousin 13 times removed.
The romantic in me is rooting for Option A.0 -
Well, thought (in 2019) that he might be the perfect VP running mate in 2020. Certainly has the role down hands-pat and would help balance a more ardent (Warren or Sanders) or younger (Beto or Mayor Pete). BUT that ship has sailed, my friend. Though that bet is probably better than a day-too-late lottery ticket.DecrepiterJohnL said:US Democrat VP -- again there have been some mysterious price changes on Joe Biden being the VP nominee. On Betfair you can back him at 600 and lay him (to small money) at 900. Either someone has a fantastic conspiracy theory or a bot is automatically trading Biden, like non-runners in horse races.
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The danger of being edgy and provocative is that you might succeed, and that risks a backlash. At best both attempted a degree of nuance ill-suited to their chosen platforms. They should both STFU, starting a couple of weeks ago. Let Katie Hopkins be Katie Hopkins.Andy_JS said:David Starkey and Priyamvada Gopal.
Discuss.0 -
Personally volunteered to keep him - Trumpsky not D-JohnL - topped up with Clorox bleach. Preferably with the help of a hollow barge pole.RobD said:
Don't forget the Trump-branded vaccine.DecrepiterJohnL said:
As individual states, and even the American people, adopt Covid-19 measures such as wearing masks (as in the Texas directive mentioned earlier in this thread) it is possible that pandemic and economic trends are running in the right direction come the November election. The fat lady hasn't sung yet.Andy_JS said:
It's going to be close IMO. Pennsylvania could decide it.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
SO how do you think Trumpsky feels?Andy_JS said:
Not the most encouraging of polls for Biden with 4 months to go.HYUFD said:
You think the news will improve for him, based on a) COVID-19 trend; b) ecomomic trend; and c) his disinclination to throw away the shovel and stop digging the hole he's in deeper?0 -
BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.0
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If Maxwell is a flight risk, why hadn't she flown? WTF was she still doing in America? As for Prince Andrew, even if innocent (and allowing for some fudging on different ages of majority) the question remains, what is he for?SeaShantyIrish2 said:As for Whats-Her-Name Maxwell, here in US the Court TV cable channel is ALL over her case. Reporting that she appeared at initial hearing this via zoom proceedings in orange prison jump suit; fashion note "she didn't look disheveled but she sure didn't look put together".
Bail hearing scheduled for Monday, feds will oppose granting her bail on grounds (pretty ample I'd say) that she's a flight risk. Speculation (pretty obvious I'd say) that she may cut some kind of deal with the feds. Attorneys for victims say her arrest is very good news, because she's got all the ledgers, black books and other key documentation that will put some big fish right into DOJ's net.
His Foul Highness Prince Andrew is toast. Won't be long before some courtier is advising him to put his head in an oven - gas or electric - and push the button.
OR maybe take a slow boat to Pitcairn Island - show up wearing a mask & claiming to be Fletcher Christian's 14th cousin 13 times removed.
The romantic in me is rooting for Option A.0 -
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.Andy_JS said:BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
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Not truely up to speed on details of Maxwell, but seems that she's been hiding - perhaps she was planning to sneak out of the US for a safer long-term hiding place, but the pandemic shut down the borders? Anyway, she's got multiple pass-ports, money stashed god-knows-where - a flight risk? Hell yes!DecrepiterJohnL said:
If Maxwell is a flight risk, why hadn't she flown? WTF was she still doing in America? As for Prince Andrew, even if innocent (and allowing for some fudging on different ages of majority) the question remains, what is he for?SeaShantyIrish2 said:As for Whats-Her-Name Maxwell, here in US the Court TV cable channel is ALL over her case. Reporting that she appeared at initial hearing this via zoom proceedings in orange prison jump suit; fashion note "she didn't look disheveled but she sure didn't look put together".
Bail hearing scheduled for Monday, feds will oppose granting her bail on grounds (pretty ample I'd say) that she's a flight risk. Speculation (pretty obvious I'd say) that she may cut some kind of deal with the feds. Attorneys for victims say her arrest is very good news, because she's got all the ledgers, black books and other key documentation that will put some big fish right into DOJ's net.
His Foul Highness Prince Andrew is toast. Won't be long before some courtier is advising him to put his head in an oven - gas or electric - and push the button.
OR maybe take a slow boat to Pitcairn Island - show up wearing a mask & claiming to be Fletcher Christian's 14th cousin 13 times removed.
The romantic in me is rooting for Option A.
His Foul Highness was up to his syphilitic gonads before this based on what was already known. With the inside dirt & details La Maxwell can & will provide, he's going to be at the deeeeeeeeep end of a very deep and slimy pool.
Almost certainly will be subpoenaed - whether or not he can be served (in legal sense that is) - to testify; quite possible he will be indicted for multiple, serious felonies.0 -
From the (little) I know of him, DS enjoys making controversial statement. Which is generally good publicity. However, in troubled times such as these, it's a habit that can backfire - and leave the speaker with his tender hind-quarters falling down a big, wide crack.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.Andy_JS said:BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Such are these times, and such is DS's ass. My sympathy is limited by fact that, he SHOULD have known better. Certainly would have IF he'd paid more attention to 2020 American media coverage than to 1520 English palace intrigue.0 -
Interesting article IMO.
"How Christopher Lasch predicted 2020
Published 25 years ago, 'The Revolt of the Elites' detailed how capitalism would radicalise the rich
BY ED WEST"
https://unherd.com/2020/07/the-book-that-predicted-2020/0 -
I wonder if Theresa May read it, and it formed the basis for her condemnation of citizens of nowhere.Andy_JS said:Interesting article IMO.
"How Christopher Lasch predicted 2020
Published 25 years ago, 'The Revolt of the Elites' detailed how capitalism would radicalise the rich
BY ED WEST"
https://unherd.com/2020/07/the-book-that-predicted-2020/
And from Michael Gove's Ditchley speech last Saturday:
As the British author David Goodhart analysed in his book, The Road to Somewhere, the gap between those with connections and credentials who can live and work anywhere, and those with fewer resources who remain rooted to the heartland, has only widened in recent years. His work, preceded by Christopher Lasch, has been supplemented by the writings of Paul Collier and J.D. Vance among others, and they all underline that those in the elite with cognitive skills, qualifications and professional mobility tend to have, or develop, different social and political values from other citizens.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-privilege-of-public-service-given-as-the-ditchley-annual-lecture
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The British need to bolster their claim to Pitcairn as an integral part of the UK to help with the TPP application, so pass a special law protecting Pitcairn residents from extradition then send him over there to represent the nation in an official capacity.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
OR maybe take a slow boat to Pitcairn Island - show up wearing a mask & claiming to be Fletcher Christian's 14th cousin 13 times removed.0 -
suDecrepiterJohnL said:
I wonder if Theresa May read it, and it formed the basis for her condemnation of citizens of nowhere.Andy_JS said:Interesting article IMO.
"How Christopher Lasch predicted 2020
Published 25 years ago, 'The Revolt of the Elites' detailed how capitalism would radicalise the rich
BY ED WEST"
https://unherd.com/2020/07/the-book-that-predicted-2020/
And from Michael Gove's Ditchley speech last Saturday:
As the British author David Goodhart analysed in his book, The Road to Somewhere, the gap between those with connections and credentials who can live and work anywhere, and those with fewer resources who remain rooted to the heartland, has only widened in recent years. His work, preceded by Christopher Lasch, has been supplemented by the writings of Paul Collier and J.D. Vance among others, and they all underline that those in the elite with cognitive skills, qualifications and professional mobility tend to have, or develop, different social and political values from other citizens.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-privilege-of-public-service-given-as-the-ditchley-annual-lecture
That's excellent summation of US situation. Like PA, WA State is divided - polarized - between Seattle area (urban/suburban, prosperous, growing, with a high-tech, high-value economy (the metro area as a whole; city is actually getting more White-bread), better educated, higher income and most of the rest of the state (exurban/small town/rural, with less prosperity and grown, lower-paying jobs in ag & ag processing (timber industry is greatly reduced).
Outside Seattle there are some places that are closer in this regard, for example Olympia (state capitol), leafier parts of Tacoma (grittier & more affordable than Seattle), Spokane (more conservative & affordable), three suburban/exurban islands (Bainbridge, Vashon, south Whidbey), a few college towns & retirement areas. Like Seattle and it's suburbs, these areas have been trending Democratic due to demographic trends (more youth & minorities) as well as increasing conservatism of Republican party compounded by extreme dislike of Trumpsky.
On other hand much of the rural/small town component used to be Democratic back during the New Deal (when Jim Farley once referred (before admission of Alaska & Hawaii) to "47 states and the Soviet of Washington) and for years afterward. But the tide with these folks turned in Eastern WA in the 1990s about twenty years later in coastal parts of Western WA (such as Aberdeen, home of Kurt Cobain).
The X factor for the future of WA State politics is the Latinx (both Latina & Latino) vote, which is concentrated in Eastern WA in the agricultural Yakima Valley & environs and is heavily but not exclusively Mexican American. So far this group has NOT been a significant player in state politics, even on the congressional level - except that one of what you might call Outer WA's members of congress is Jaime Herrera Beutler, a Hispanic Republican elected in district with few Latinx voters.
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Yeah, give him a nice bon voyage party . . . and a leaky boat.edmundintokyo said:
The British need to bolster their claim to Pitcairn as an integral part of the UK to help with the TPP application, so pass a special law protecting Pitcairn residents from extradition then send him over there to represent the nation in an official capacity.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
OR maybe take a slow boat to Pitcairn Island - show up wearing a mask & claiming to be Fletcher Christian's 14th cousin 13 times removed.
Anyway, Pitcairn Is has (or did have) its own sex abuse problem. Certainly do NOT need to import more from Dear Old Blighty.0 -
Re La Maxwell, heard end of report on PBS, reporting that FBI says they had her under surveilence for months, she was in CA for a while (and photographed at an In-and-Out burger joint (bit ironic that) then "slithered off" to secluded estate in Bedford NH. Where she was arrested early Thurs morning.
Implication seems to be that feds effectively had Maxwell on ice, and were investigating other aspects of the case, and other targets, including former US district prosecutor & short-time Trump cabinet member who cut the sweatheart deal for Epstein & thus also Maxwell.
SO sounds like, in addition to very serious alleged sex crimes including but not limited to child abuse and human trafficking, there will also be prosecutions for equally serious corruption charges levied against former & maybe current federal officials. So hold on to your hats!0 -
Thanks to Stodge for the header.0
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Oops! Turns out today is Friday, not Saturday. Who knew? Time for a quick nap before work!0
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Pretty interesting animation which, even allowing for confounding factors, suggests the efficacy of masks.
https://twitter.com/elyodmj/status/12788376352980664330 -
I wouldn't have thought that the idea that routinely calling Johnson "Boris" is collaborating in his branding is particularly controversial.kle4 said:
You didn't, but the comment dfte made did, and that prompted this discussion.kinabalu said:
I didn't say it denotes endearment. What it denotes is familiarity. Which is false. Also very odd for a politician as your answer indicates.kle4 said:
No, but that's a point about consistency, and that his particular brand being using his first name - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the preposterous and frankly insulting view of the public that it denotes endearment,which was my objection.kinabalu said:
Is there any other politician who you routinely refer to by their first name as a matter of course and with no irony?kle4 said:
No matter how many times people tell me its use demonstrates some form of endearment it never stops sounding like a pile of nonsense to me. I think it is really demeaning to suggest that it does in fact. Here, I'll give you an example of why it's nonsense - Boris is an arse, who has been sacked for lying multiple times. Oh heaven forfend, such endearment has been shown by that statement. There's no real implication from using Boris, that's something people are inferring.kinabalu said:
+1dfte said:Mike, I like it that you called him Johnson here, not Boris. Keep it that way - it's inconsistent to use a self-chosen first name for one politician which implies some form of endearment which is not universally felt!
Yes. I strongly prefer Johnson. I wish more would use it. Not just here on PB but generally. Use of his 1st name (unless in irony) is inappropriate and borderline cringeful.
His brand is being known as Boris. Fine if people don't want to use it for that reason, or because they want to be consistent or more formal. But I've used both Boris and Johnson and Boris Johnson, and I don't accept this ludicrousness that if people generally refer to him as Boris they should not because it is somehow cuddly or friendly.
You want to argue for consistency or formaility politicians should, as nearly all do, go by their first name (although frankly Sir Keir is not doing too badly in that respect)? Fine. But to get het up about it being endearing or cringy? Screw that, it's saying the public are idiotic monkeys swayed by using what isn't even his actual first name, despite very easy examples of criticising and insulting him whilst still using Boris.
Criticising it on that basis is judging people and presuming what their views of him are based on absolutely nothing.
He benefits big time from the phony sense of intimacy which the "Boris" handle imbues. There is no question of that. Don't kid yourself it makes no difference.
It's then up to you whether to collaborate in this or not. But unless you are a strong supporter of him or this government I would suggest that it makes sense not to.
I think your description of it as collaboration and suggestion it is only for those who are strong supporters of him is insulting and beneath you. It's pathetic to suggest people are so stupid that any sense of 'familiarity' is akin to collaboration. Up yours, I thought you better than that.
I seriously cannot grasp the mental process that thinks people are 'collaborating' in some kind of intimacy by calling him what people call him. That you maintain that position even though its used by people who are not strong supporters of his instantly makes your point utter garbage, yet people persist in it even as their own words show what garbage it is.1 -
If you had a surname that made people think “todger” maybe you too would be keen on using your first name?kamski said:
I wouldn't have thought that the idea that routinely calling Johnson "Boris" is collaborating in his branding is particularly controversial.kle4 said:
You didn't, but the comment dfte made did, and that prompted this discussion.kinabalu said:
I didn't say it denotes endearment. What it denotes is familiarity. Which is false. Also very odd for a politician as your answer indicates.kle4 said:
No, but that's a point about consistency, and that his particular brand being using his first name - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the preposterous and frankly insulting view of the public that it denotes endearment,which was my objection.kinabalu said:
Is there any other politician who you routinely refer to by their first name as a matter of course and with no irony?kle4 said:
No matter how many times people tell me its use demonstrates some form of endearment it never stops sounding like a pile of nonsense to me. I think it is really demeaning to suggest that it does in fact. Here, I'll give you an example of why it's nonsense - Boris is an arse, who has been sacked for lying multiple times. Oh heaven forfend, such endearment has been shown by that statement. There's no real implication from using Boris, that's something people are inferring.kinabalu said:
+1dfte said:Mike, I like it that you called him Johnson here, not Boris. Keep it that way - it's inconsistent to use a self-chosen first name for one politician which implies some form of endearment which is not universally felt!
Yes. I strongly prefer Johnson. I wish more would use it. Not just here on PB but generally. Use of his 1st name (unless in irony) is inappropriate and borderline cringeful.
His brand is being known as Boris. Fine if people don't want to use it for that reason, or because they want to be consistent or more formal. But I've used both Boris and Johnson and Boris Johnson, and I don't accept this ludicrousness that if people generally refer to him as Boris they should not because it is somehow cuddly or friendly.
You want to argue for consistency or formaility politicians should, as nearly all do, go by their first name (although frankly Sir Keir is not doing too badly in that respect)? Fine. But to get het up about it being endearing or cringy? Screw that, it's saying the public are idiotic monkeys swayed by using what isn't even his actual first name, despite very easy examples of criticising and insulting him whilst still using Boris.
Criticising it on that basis is judging people and presuming what their views of him are based on absolutely nothing.
He benefits big time from the phony sense of intimacy which the "Boris" handle imbues. There is no question of that. Don't kid yourself it makes no difference.
It's then up to you whether to collaborate in this or not. But unless you are a strong supporter of him or this government I would suggest that it makes sense not to.
I think your description of it as collaboration and suggestion it is only for those who are strong supporters of him is insulting and beneath you. It's pathetic to suggest people are so stupid that any sense of 'familiarity' is akin to collaboration. Up yours, I thought you better than that.
I seriously cannot grasp the mental process that thinks people are 'collaborating' in some kind of intimacy by calling him what people call him. That you maintain that position even though its used by people who are not strong supporters of his instantly makes your point utter garbage, yet people persist in it even as their own words show what garbage it is. 0 -
Very strongly agree with this. I think the George Floyd case was a watershed moment that has brought about a sea change in thinking about systemic and subconscious, as opposed to personal and overt, racism.SeaShantyIrish2 said:And defunding police is a bad sound bite, but it seems that even conservative voters have been part of the BLM sea change over here since George Floyd was killed.
This is not a clean partisan issue - although I think it is a safe assumption that the vast majority of the minority that still do not get it are in the right wing of the GOP.0 -
I hadn't thought of thatIanB2 said:
If you had a surname that made people think “todger” maybe you too would be keen on using your first name?kamski said:
I wouldn't have thought that the idea that routinely calling Johnson "Boris" is collaborating in his branding is particularly controversial.kle4 said:
You didn't, but the comment dfte made did, and that prompted this discussion.kinabalu said:
I didn't say it denotes endearment. What it denotes is familiarity. Which is false. Also very odd for a politician as your answer indicates.kle4 said:
No, but that's a point about consistency, and that his particular brand being using his first name - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the preposterous and frankly insulting view of the public that it denotes endearment,which was my objection.kinabalu said:
Is there any other politician who you routinely refer to by their first name as a matter of course and with no irony?kle4 said:
No matter how many times people tell me its use demonstrates some form of endearment it never stops sounding like a pile of nonsense to me. I think it is really demeaning to suggest that it does in fact. Here, I'll give you an example of why it's nonsense - Boris is an arse, who has been sacked for lying multiple times. Oh heaven forfend, such endearment has been shown by that statement. There's no real implication from using Boris, that's something people are inferring.kinabalu said:
+1dfte said:Mike, I like it that you called him Johnson here, not Boris. Keep it that way - it's inconsistent to use a self-chosen first name for one politician which implies some form of endearment which is not universally felt!
Yes. I strongly prefer Johnson. I wish more would use it. Not just here on PB but generally. Use of his 1st name (unless in irony) is inappropriate and borderline cringeful.
His brand is being known as Boris. Fine if people don't want to use it for that reason, or because they want to be consistent or more formal. But I've used both Boris and Johnson and Boris Johnson, and I don't accept this ludicrousness that if people generally refer to him as Boris they should not because it is somehow cuddly or friendly.
You want to argue for consistency or formaility politicians should, as nearly all do, go by their first name (although frankly Sir Keir is not doing too badly in that respect)? Fine. But to get het up about it being endearing or cringy? Screw that, it's saying the public are idiotic monkeys swayed by using what isn't even his actual first name, despite very easy examples of criticising and insulting him whilst still using Boris.
Criticising it on that basis is judging people and presuming what their views of him are based on absolutely nothing.
He benefits big time from the phony sense of intimacy which the "Boris" handle imbues. There is no question of that. Don't kid yourself it makes no difference.
It's then up to you whether to collaborate in this or not. But unless you are a strong supporter of him or this government I would suggest that it makes sense not to.
I think your description of it as collaboration and suggestion it is only for those who are strong supporters of him is insulting and beneath you. It's pathetic to suggest people are so stupid that any sense of 'familiarity' is akin to collaboration. Up yours, I thought you better than that.
I seriously cannot grasp the mental process that thinks people are 'collaborating' in some kind of intimacy by calling him what people call him. That you maintain that position even though its used by people who are not strong supporters of his instantly makes your point utter garbage, yet people persist in it even as their own words show what garbage it is.0 -
Should we then insist that he henceforth be referred to as Todger ?kamski said:
I hadn't thought of thatIanB2 said:
If you had a surname that made people think “todger” maybe you too would be keen on using your first name?kamski said:
I wouldn't have thought that the idea that routinely calling Johnson "Boris" is collaborating in his branding is particularly controversial.kle4 said:
You didn't, but the comment dfte made did, and that prompted this discussion.kinabalu said:
I didn't say it denotes endearment. What it denotes is familiarity. Which is false. Also very odd for a politician as your answer indicates.kle4 said:
No, but that's a point about consistency, and that his particular brand being using his first name - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the preposterous and frankly insulting view of the public that it denotes endearment,which was my objection.kinabalu said:
Is there any other politician who you routinely refer to by their first name as a matter of course and with no irony?kle4 said:
No matter how many times people tell me its use demonstrates some form of endearment it never stops sounding like a pile of nonsense to me. I think it is really demeaning to suggest that it does in fact. Here, I'll give you an example of why it's nonsense - Boris is an arse, who has been sacked for lying multiple times. Oh heaven forfend, such endearment has been shown by that statement. There's no real implication from using Boris, that's something people are inferring.kinabalu said:
+1dfte said:Mike, I like it that you called him Johnson here, not Boris. Keep it that way - it's inconsistent to use a self-chosen first name for one politician which implies some form of endearment which is not universally felt!
Yes. I strongly prefer Johnson. I wish more would use it. Not just here on PB but generally. Use of his 1st name (unless in irony) is inappropriate and borderline cringeful.
His brand is being known as Boris. Fine if people don't want to use it for that reason, or because they want to be consistent or more formal. But I've used both Boris and Johnson and Boris Johnson, and I don't accept this ludicrousness that if people generally refer to him as Boris they should not because it is somehow cuddly or friendly.
You want to argue for consistency or formaility politicians should, as nearly all do, go by their first name (although frankly Sir Keir is not doing too badly in that respect)? Fine. But to get het up about it being endearing or cringy? Screw that, it's saying the public are idiotic monkeys swayed by using what isn't even his actual first name, despite very easy examples of criticising and insulting him whilst still using Boris.
Criticising it on that basis is judging people and presuming what their views of him are based on absolutely nothing.
He benefits big time from the phony sense of intimacy which the "Boris" handle imbues. There is no question of that. Don't kid yourself it makes no difference.
It's then up to you whether to collaborate in this or not. But unless you are a strong supporter of him or this government I would suggest that it makes sense not to.
I think your description of it as collaboration and suggestion it is only for those who are strong supporters of him is insulting and beneath you. It's pathetic to suggest people are so stupid that any sense of 'familiarity' is akin to collaboration. Up yours, I thought you better than that.
I seriously cannot grasp the mental process that thinks people are 'collaborating' in some kind of intimacy by calling him what people call him. That you maintain that position even though its used by people who are not strong supporters of his instantly makes your point utter garbage, yet people persist in it even as their own words show what garbage it is.0 -
While it’s great to see someone taking an interest in political history, I could wish a better job had been done of it. In addition to the criticisms of @SeaShantyIrish2 and @justin124 (who could actually both have gone further) there’s some confusion over the title of the party. Since 1912 when a formal merger happened, it has been the ‘Conservative and Unionist Party.’ At first, for reasons of tact, it was known as the ‘Unionist’ party, but it became known as the ‘Conservative’ party for all purposes in 1925.
The exceptions were Scotland, where it used the ‘Unionist’ name until 1965, and Northern Ireland, where it was the ‘Unionist’ party until the breakaway of the Ulster Unionists in either the early 1970s or 1985 (delete according to taste).
It is true though that Liberal Unionist influence remained strong in the party between the wars. Austen and Neville Chamberlain, along with William Joynson-Hicks, were the dominant figures of the Baldwin government of 1924-29, and all were former Liberal Unionists. Indeed, Neville Chamberlain hated the word ‘Conservative’ and never stood as one, always preferring to be called first a Unionist and then a National MP.0 -
No, as I’ve said many times, he’s just A Johnson.Nigelb said:
Should we then insist that he henceforth be referred to as Todger ?kamski said:
I hadn't thought of thatIanB2 said:
If you had a surname that made people think “todger” maybe you too would be keen on using your first name?kamski said:
I wouldn't have thought that the idea that routinely calling Johnson "Boris" is collaborating in his branding is particularly controversial.kle4 said:
You didn't, but the comment dfte made did, and that prompted this discussion.kinabalu said:
I didn't say it denotes endearment. What it denotes is familiarity. Which is false. Also very odd for a politician as your answer indicates.kle4 said:
No, but that's a point about consistency, and that his particular brand being using his first name - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the preposterous and frankly insulting view of the public that it denotes endearment,which was my objection.kinabalu said:
Is there any other politician who you routinely refer to by their first name as a matter of course and with no irony?kle4 said:
No matter how many times people tell me its use demonstrates some form of endearment it never stops sounding like a pile of nonsense to me. I think it is really demeaning to suggest that it does in fact. Here, I'll give you an example of why it's nonsense - Boris is an arse, who has been sacked for lying multiple times. Oh heaven forfend, such endearment has been shown by that statement. There's no real implication from using Boris, that's something people are inferring.kinabalu said:
+1dfte said:Mike, I like it that you called him Johnson here, not Boris. Keep it that way - it's inconsistent to use a self-chosen first name for one politician which implies some form of endearment which is not universally felt!
Yes. I strongly prefer Johnson. I wish more would use it. Not just here on PB but generally. Use of his 1st name (unless in irony) is inappropriate and borderline cringeful.
His brand is being known as Boris. Fine if people don't want to use it for that reason, or because they want to be consistent or more formal. But I've used both Boris and Johnson and Boris Johnson, and I don't accept this ludicrousness that if people generally refer to him as Boris they should not because it is somehow cuddly or friendly.
You want to argue for consistency or formaility politicians should, as nearly all do, go by their first name (although frankly Sir Keir is not doing too badly in that respect)? Fine. But to get het up about it being endearing or cringy? Screw that, it's saying the public are idiotic monkeys swayed by using what isn't even his actual first name, despite very easy examples of criticising and insulting him whilst still using Boris.
Criticising it on that basis is judging people and presuming what their views of him are based on absolutely nothing.
He benefits big time from the phony sense of intimacy which the "Boris" handle imbues. There is no question of that. Don't kid yourself it makes no difference.
It's then up to you whether to collaborate in this or not. But unless you are a strong supporter of him or this government I would suggest that it makes sense not to.
I think your description of it as collaboration and suggestion it is only for those who are strong supporters of him is insulting and beneath you. It's pathetic to suggest people are so stupid that any sense of 'familiarity' is akin to collaboration. Up yours, I thought you better than that.
I seriously cannot grasp the mental process that thinks people are 'collaborating' in some kind of intimacy by calling him what people call him. That you maintain that position even though its used by people who are not strong supporters of his instantly makes your point utter garbage, yet people persist in it even as their own words show what garbage it is.0 -
if you must insist on formality, I can’t really dissent.ydoethur said:
No, as I’ve said many times, he’s just A Johnson.Nigelb said:
Should we then insist that he henceforth be referred to as Todger ?kamski said:
I hadn't thought of thatIanB2 said:
If you had a surname that made people think “todger” maybe you too would be keen on using your first name?kamski said:
I wouldn't have thought that the idea that routinely calling Johnson "Boris" is collaborating in his branding is particularly controversial.kle4 said:
You didn't, but the comment dfte made did, and that prompted this discussion.kinabalu said:
I didn't say it denotes endearment. What it denotes is familiarity. Which is false. Also very odd for a politician as your answer indicates.kle4 said:
No, but that's a point about consistency, and that his particular brand being using his first name - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the preposterous and frankly insulting view of the public that it denotes endearment,which was my objection.kinabalu said:
Is there any other politician who you routinely refer to by their first name as a matter of course and with no irony?kle4 said:
No matter how many times people tell me its use demonstrates some form of endearment it never stops sounding like a pile of nonsense to me. I think it is really demeaning to suggest that it does in fact. Here, I'll give you an example of why it's nonsense - Boris is an arse, who has been sacked for lying multiple times. Oh heaven forfend, such endearment has been shown by that statement. There's no real implication from using Boris, that's something people are inferring.kinabalu said:
+1dfte said:Mike, I like it that you called him Johnson here, not Boris. Keep it that way - it's inconsistent to use a self-chosen first name for one politician which implies some form of endearment which is not universally felt!
Yes. I strongly prefer Johnson. I wish more would use it. Not just here on PB but generally. Use of his 1st name (unless in irony) is inappropriate and borderline cringeful.
His brand is being known as Boris. Fine if people don't want to use it for that reason, or because they want to be consistent or more formal. But I've used both Boris and Johnson and Boris Johnson, and I don't accept this ludicrousness that if people generally refer to him as Boris they should not because it is somehow cuddly or friendly.
You want to argue for consistency or formaility politicians should, as nearly all do, go by their first name (although frankly Sir Keir is not doing too badly in that respect)? Fine. But to get het up about it being endearing or cringy? Screw that, it's saying the public are idiotic monkeys swayed by using what isn't even his actual first name, despite very easy examples of criticising and insulting him whilst still using Boris.
Criticising it on that basis is judging people and presuming what their views of him are based on absolutely nothing.
He benefits big time from the phony sense of intimacy which the "Boris" handle imbues. There is no question of that. Don't kid yourself it makes no difference.
It's then up to you whether to collaborate in this or not. But unless you are a strong supporter of him or this government I would suggest that it makes sense not to.
I think your description of it as collaboration and suggestion it is only for those who are strong supporters of him is insulting and beneath you. It's pathetic to suggest people are so stupid that any sense of 'familiarity' is akin to collaboration. Up yours, I thought you better than that.
I seriously cannot grasp the mental process that thinks people are 'collaborating' in some kind of intimacy by calling him what people call him. That you maintain that position even though its used by people who are not strong supporters of his instantly makes your point utter garbage, yet people persist in it even as their own words show what garbage it is.1 -
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
0 -
Agree with that. It is interesting on PB that there are very few here who get wound up by "taking the knee". The Floyd murder has changed the world.TimT said:
Very strongly agree with this. I think the George Floyd case was a watershed moment that has brought about a sea change in thinking about systemic and subconscious, as opposed to personal and overt, racism.SeaShantyIrish2 said:And defunding police is a bad sound bite, but it seems that even conservative voters have been part of the BLM sea change over here since George Floyd was killed.
This is not a clean partisan issue - although I think it is a safe assumption that the vast majority of the minority that still do not get it are in the right wing of the GOP.0 -
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!0 -
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.0 -
Because he is not a Unionist. By definition, a Unionist recognises and respects that the United Kingdom is a political union between distinct countries. Boris Johnson does not recognise nor respect this. He stood up in parliament a couple of days ago and made the frankly bizarre statement that there is no such thing as the Anglo-Scottish border. As surreal as pointing to the sky on a bright, cloudless day and proclaiming that the sun does not exist.RochdalePioneers said:An interesting read Stodge! Question - if Johnson is a Liberal Unionist why is he doing so much to wreck the Union?
0 -
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.0 -
In parts at least of the US, biscuit is a kind of savoury scone eaten with gravy most commonly at breakfast time. Weird.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
0 -
It’s that fine rain that soaks you through?OldKingCole said:
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.0 -
Yes; as an Essex boy, when I went to live in Manchester (long time ago) for a while, I couldn't believe how wet one could get.IanB2 said:
It’s that fine rain that soaks you through?OldKingCole said:
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.
0 -
Indeed. Stodge’s sentence simply does not stand up to scrutiny. The Conservatives have never recognised that the Union has to evolve, nor have they reconciled themselves with devolution. I cannot see those basic facts changing, even in the long-term.Theuniondivvie said:'The modern Conservative Party stands foursquare behind the Union but recognises that Union has to evolve to the demands of the 21st Century – it has come to support a degree of devolution to Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.'
It hasn't really. The Conservative recognises the fact of devolution but if it could press a button that cancelled it without any political, electoral or legal consequences it would. This inclination is even more firmly embedded in their Scotch cousins.0 -
Republicans slowly discovering the benefits of masks?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8484529/Herman-Cain-hospitalized-coronavirus-going-Trumps-Tulsa-rally-WITHOUT-mask.html0 -
It was discovered as recently as 2009 that smaller rain droplets actually fall faster than larger ones. Plus there are more small droplets in drizzle than large droplets in a downpour, and small droplets are more likely to stick to you rather than bounce off. It’s all scientifically proven....OldKingCole said:
Yes; as an Essex boy, when I went to live in Manchester (long time ago) for a while, I couldn't believe how wet one could get.IanB2 said:
It’s that fine rain that soaks you through?OldKingCole said:
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.0 -
Someone's PhD?IanB2 said:
It was discovered as recently as 2009 that smaller rain droplets actually fall faster than larger ones. Plus there are more small droplets in drizzle than large droplets in a downpour, and small droplets are more likely to stick to you rather than bounce off. It’s all scientifically proven....OldKingCole said:
Yes; as an Essex boy, when I went to live in Manchester (long time ago) for a while, I couldn't believe how wet one could get.IanB2 said:
It’s that fine rain that soaks you through?OldKingCole said:
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.0 -
BREAKING: It is now revealed that people tested during the initial rollout of the testing programme in April were not asked for their postcode. They're now scrabbling around trying to retrospectively obtain the information from people who were tested.0
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That l need to see a source for: the basic physics suggests the opposite, though I know that strange things can happen with turbulent flow.IanB2 said:
It was discovered as recently as 2009 that smaller rain droplets actually fall faster than larger ones. Plus there are more small droplets in drizzle than large droplets in a downpour, and small droplets are more likely to stick to you rather than bounce off. It’s all scientifically proven....OldKingCole said:
Yes; as an Essex boy, when I went to live in Manchester (long time ago) for a while, I couldn't believe how wet one could get.IanB2 said:
It’s that fine rain that soaks you through?OldKingCole said:
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.0 -
Agreed. I have been getting rained on for 50 odd years now and today is no different. Fine rain hangs in the air and the more fine it is the more like mist it appears and acts. Big heavy droplets bounce off the pavement and me.Fysics_Teacher said:
That l need to see a source for: the basic physics suggests the opposite, though I know that strange things can happen with turbulent flow.IanB2 said:
It was discovered as recently as 2009 that smaller rain droplets actually fall faster than larger ones. Plus there are more small droplets in drizzle than large droplets in a downpour, and small droplets are more likely to stick to you rather than bounce off. It’s all scientifically proven....OldKingCole said:
Yes; as an Essex boy, when I went to live in Manchester (long time ago) for a while, I couldn't believe how wet one could get.IanB2 said:
It’s that fine rain that soaks you through?OldKingCole said:
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.0 -
It falls on the just and unjust fellas.DavidL said:
Agreed. I have been getting rained on for 50 odd years now and today is no different. Fine rain hangs in the air and the more fine it is the more like mist it appears and acts. Big heavy droplets bounce off the pavement and me.Fysics_Teacher said:
That l need to see a source for: the basic physics suggests the opposite, though I know that strange things can happen with turbulent flow.IanB2 said:
It was discovered as recently as 2009 that smaller rain droplets actually fall faster than larger ones. Plus there are more small droplets in drizzle than large droplets in a downpour, and small droplets are more likely to stick to you rather than bounce off. It’s all scientifically proven....OldKingCole said:
Yes; as an Essex boy, when I went to live in Manchester (long time ago) for a while, I couldn't believe how wet one could get.IanB2 said:
It’s that fine rain that soaks you through?OldKingCole said:
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.
1 -
https://www.mtu.edu/news/stories/2015/february/falling-faster-researchers-confirm-super-terminal-raindrops.htmlFysics_Teacher said:
That l need to see a source for: the basic physics suggests the opposite, though I know that strange things can happen with turbulent flow.IanB2 said:
It was discovered as recently as 2009 that smaller rain droplets actually fall faster than larger ones. Plus there are more small droplets in drizzle than large droplets in a downpour, and small droplets are more likely to stick to you rather than bounce off. It’s all scientifically proven....OldKingCole said:
Yes; as an Essex boy, when I went to live in Manchester (long time ago) for a while, I couldn't believe how wet one could get.IanB2 said:
It’s that fine rain that soaks you through?OldKingCole said:
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.0 -
Shapps now saying "over 50" countries will be on the quarantine-exempt traffic light list to be announced later. Yesterday government was briefing "about 75".0
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Great thread Stodge.
To be fair, 'why are there so many damn blacks' is not a comment you could ever utter on a recording and still expect to be employed on mainstream television or radio. He is a silly man. It's just such a stupid thing to say.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
From the (little) I know of him, DS enjoys making controversial statement. Which is generally good publicity. However, in troubled times such as these, it's a habit that can backfire - and leave the speaker with his tender hind-quarters falling down a big, wide crack.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.Andy_JS said:BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Such are these times, and such is DS's ass. My sympathy is limited by fact that, he SHOULD have known better. Certainly would have IF he'd paid more attention to 2020 American media coverage than to 1520 English palace intrigue.3 -
But mostly upon the just, because the unjust stealeth the just's umbrellas.geoffw said:
It falls on the just and unjust fellas.DavidL said:
Agreed. I have been getting rained on for 50 odd years now and today is no different. Fine rain hangs in the air and the more fine it is the more like mist it appears and acts. Big heavy droplets bounce off the pavement and me.Fysics_Teacher said:
That l need to see a source for: the basic physics suggests the opposite, though I know that strange things can happen with turbulent flow.IanB2 said:
It was discovered as recently as 2009 that smaller rain droplets actually fall faster than larger ones. Plus there are more small droplets in drizzle than large droplets in a downpour, and small droplets are more likely to stick to you rather than bounce off. It’s all scientifically proven....OldKingCole said:
Yes; as an Essex boy, when I went to live in Manchester (long time ago) for a while, I couldn't believe how wet one could get.IanB2 said:
It’s that fine rain that soaks you through?OldKingCole said:
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.1 -
Good article @stodge although I would take issue with describing Joe Chamberlain as a Liberal Unionist.
He certainly made common cause with them, but was at heart a Radical and Imperial Preferencer as you note. That’s a very different strain within the Tory Party (if you recall, my thread was Ultras, Liberal Unionists and Radicals) even though they had common branding for a while. The Liberal Unionists were originally grouped around the Cavendish family, but more recent examples are people like Carson, Mayhew, Hurd, Ancram, etc. They had disappeared under Blair and Cameron, quiescent given the dominance of the metropolitan interest.
In my view the current government is a slightly odd mix of Liberal Unionist and Radical. I like their instincts but just wish they had the ability and focus to deliver on them!1 -
IanB2 said:
Shapps now saying "over 50" countries will be on the quarantine-exempt traffic light list to be announced later. Yesterday government was briefing "about 75".
Gather we can go to Thailand, but the Thais won't let us in!0 -
ElectoralCalculus's latest polling average is showing a swing of 4% from LD to Lab since the general election. Whether that's because the LDs are waiting for their new leader to be announced is an interesting question.0
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On topic if Boris is a Liberal Unionist so were Cameron and Osborne. They all come from the same strand of Conservatism that was given life by Maggie, not really conservative at all with a small "c" but happy to adopt change and modernise the country in a socially liberal way.
The picture is distorted by Brexit and the fuss over Europe but otherwise there is little to tell between them either in social policy or economics. Osborne was more than happy to steal the Liberal's clothes and increase personal allowances, introduce the pupil premium etc and claim these ideas as his own. He was content that those with the broadest shoulders should carry the burden and increased the taxes on the better off.
It's why I think that the Coalition suited Cameron very well indeed and he in fact had a lot more problems when he became dependent on the nutters in his own party for a majority. It's trite to say that he took a loan of Clegg & Co but actually he was a lot more comfortable with them than many of his own party. Boris is the same and I hope as Brexit disappears as an issue that will become more and more apparent.0 -
I believe Heseltine was a National Liberal not a Liberal Unionist...IanB2 said:Or indeed Michael Heseltine who stood as a Liberal Unionist in his early days and arguable carried the torch through to current day.
Attributing any sort of principles or ideology to the great self regarding pudding in Downing Street is however stretching credibility too far,
His philosophy is inimical to the Liberal Unionists. Too much command and control and not enough space for the individual0 -
No. That goes without saying...SandyRentool said:
I used to think that GOP stood for God's Own Party.Philip_Thompson said:
That is a good one. It also amuses me that the Grand Old Party in the USA is the newer of the two parties.kle4 said:Always nice to get a bit of historical perspective and detail, though you can understand why things get simplified in our memories. I think my mind was blown when I discovered there used to be a Democratic-Republican Party in the USA.
0 -
I think that must by now be something like No. 43 in the tally of entirely avoidable mistakes made in the UK government and its agencies in the UK's chronically inept management of the Covid crisis. I tried for a while to keep a list but lost track when we got beyond 20 or so. The revelations just keep coming relentlessly.IanB2 said:BREAKING: It is now revealed that people tested during the initial rollout of the testing programme in April were not asked for their postcode. They're now scrabbling around trying to retrospectively obtain the information from people who were tested.
0 -
Quite right too. We're still a biohazard of a nation compared to plenty of placesOldKingCole said:IanB2 said:Shapps now saying "over 50" countries will be on the quarantine-exempt traffic light list to be announced later. Yesterday government was briefing "about 75".
Gather we can go to Thailand, but the Thais won't let us in!1 -
I love that rhyme.geoffw said:
It falls on the just and unjust fellas.DavidL said:
Agreed. I have been getting rained on for 50 odd years now and today is no different. Fine rain hangs in the air and the more fine it is the more like mist it appears and acts. Big heavy droplets bounce off the pavement and me.Fysics_Teacher said:
That l need to see a source for: the basic physics suggests the opposite, though I know that strange things can happen with turbulent flow.IanB2 said:
It was discovered as recently as 2009 that smaller rain droplets actually fall faster than larger ones. Plus there are more small droplets in drizzle than large droplets in a downpour, and small droplets are more likely to stick to you rather than bounce off. It’s all scientifically proven....OldKingCole said:
Yes; as an Essex boy, when I went to live in Manchester (long time ago) for a while, I couldn't believe how wet one could get.IanB2 said:
It’s that fine rain that soaks you through?OldKingCole said:
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.0 -
She will mysteriously get covid and die four weeks later.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Not truely up to speed on details of Maxwell, but seems that she's been hiding - perhaps she was planning to sneak out of the US for a safer long-term hiding place, but the pandemic shut down the borders? Anyway, she's got multiple pass-ports, money stashed god-knows-where - a flight risk? Hell yes!DecrepiterJohnL said:
If Maxwell is a flight risk, why hadn't she flown? WTF was she still doing in America? As for Prince Andrew, even if innocent (and allowing for some fudging on different ages of majority) the question remains, what is he for?SeaShantyIrish2 said:As for Whats-Her-Name Maxwell, here in US the Court TV cable channel is ALL over her case. Reporting that she appeared at initial hearing this via zoom proceedings in orange prison jump suit; fashion note "she didn't look disheveled but she sure didn't look put together".
Bail hearing scheduled for Monday, feds will oppose granting her bail on grounds (pretty ample I'd say) that she's a flight risk. Speculation (pretty obvious I'd say) that she may cut some kind of deal with the feds. Attorneys for victims say her arrest is very good news, because she's got all the ledgers, black books and other key documentation that will put some big fish right into DOJ's net.
His Foul Highness Prince Andrew is toast. Won't be long before some courtier is advising him to put his head in an oven - gas or electric - and push the button.
OR maybe take a slow boat to Pitcairn Island - show up wearing a mask & claiming to be Fletcher Christian's 14th cousin 13 times removed.
The romantic in me is rooting for Option A.
His Foul Highness was up to his syphilitic gonads before this based on what was already known. With the inside dirt & details La Maxwell can & will provide, he's going to be at the deeeeeeeeep end of a very deep and slimy pool.
Almost certainly will be subpoenaed - whether or not he can be served (in legal sense that is) - to testify; quite possible he will be indicted for multiple, serious felonies.0 -
She will mysteriously get covid and die four weeks later.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Not truely up to speed on details of Maxwell, but seems that she's been hiding - perhaps she was planning to sneak out of the US for a safer long-term hiding place, but the pandemic shut down the borders? Anyway, she's got multiple pass-ports, money stashed god-knows-where - a flight risk? Hell yes!DecrepiterJohnL said:
If Maxwell is a flight risk, why hadn't she flown? WTF was she still doing in America? As for Prince Andrew, even if innocent (and allowing for some fudging on different ages of majority) the question remains, what is he for?SeaShantyIrish2 said:As for Whats-Her-Name Maxwell, here in US the Court TV cable channel is ALL over her case. Reporting that she appeared at initial hearing this via zoom proceedings in orange prison jump suit; fashion note "she didn't look disheveled but she sure didn't look put together".
Bail hearing scheduled for Monday, feds will oppose granting her bail on grounds (pretty ample I'd say) that she's a flight risk. Speculation (pretty obvious I'd say) that she may cut some kind of deal with the feds. Attorneys for victims say her arrest is very good news, because she's got all the ledgers, black books and other key documentation that will put some big fish right into DOJ's net.
His Foul Highness Prince Andrew is toast. Won't be long before some courtier is advising him to put his head in an oven - gas or electric - and push the button.
OR maybe take a slow boat to Pitcairn Island - show up wearing a mask & claiming to be Fletcher Christian's 14th cousin 13 times removed.
The romantic in me is rooting for Option A.
His Foul Highness was up to his syphilitic gonads before this based on what was already known. With the inside dirt & details La Maxwell can & will provide, he's going to be at the deeeeeeeeep end of a very deep and slimy pool.
Almost certainly will be subpoenaed - whether or not he can be served (in legal sense that is) - to testify; quite possible he will be indicted for multiple, serious felonies.0 -
That doesn't say that small drops fall faster than large drops - only that they are falling faster than their terminal velocity.IanB2 said:
https://www.mtu.edu/news/stories/2015/february/falling-faster-researchers-confirm-super-terminal-raindrops.htmlFysics_Teacher said:
That l need to see a source for: the basic physics suggests the opposite, though I know that strange things can happen with turbulent flow.IanB2 said:
It was discovered as recently as 2009 that smaller rain droplets actually fall faster than larger ones. Plus there are more small droplets in drizzle than large droplets in a downpour, and small droplets are more likely to stick to you rather than bounce off. It’s all scientifically proven....OldKingCole said:
Yes; as an Essex boy, when I went to live in Manchester (long time ago) for a while, I couldn't believe how wet one could get.IanB2 said:
It’s that fine rain that soaks you through?OldKingCole said:
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.
Sounds like a temporary phenomenon due to collisions and the break-up of larger raindrops - rather than an error in terminal velocity calculations.0 -
That’s a specific study, not the track & trace programme.Foxy said:
Track and Trace is not the reason for the increase in testing in Leics. Indeed it is rather a flop. To quote yesterday's PHE report:Philip_Thompson said:
I've said before hopefully now we're catching cases in the community sooner because of track and trace rather than catching only the sickest in the hospital. So the decrease in cases in reality is probably even more stark than the decrease in confirmed cases.Foxy said:
Though no spike in Leicester deaths. 7 were added this week, but the most recent of these was on 24/6. Inpatients down again today too, to 70.Malmesbury said:England down to Low Level Authority - Pillar 1 & 2
1.5 Backward contact tracing
A current study on the utility of backward contact tracing is being piloted across England. Leicester city residents have been included in the pilot. Against an intended sample of 50 cases, only 11 cases in the city had successfully completed the study until 24 June 2020. Preliminary analysis of the 11 cases did not identify any events with multiple households attending. Most of the cases did not report leaving home, other than for visiting supermarkets0 -
She was hiding in plain sight in New Hampshire.
Live free or die!0 -
It must be nice to be the party whose only function is, by how their votes affects the other parties' results, to decide which of the other parties forms the government that completely ignores them. It is remarkable that anyone would want to spend their lives campaigning for this great purpose.Andy_JS said:ElectoralCalculus's latest polling average is showing a swing of 4% from LD to Lab since the general election. Whether that's because the LDs are waiting for their new leader to be announced is an interesting question.
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Thanks for that.IanB2 said:
https://www.mtu.edu/news/stories/2015/february/falling-faster-researchers-confirm-super-terminal-raindrops.htmlFysics_Teacher said:
That l need to see a source for: the basic physics suggests the opposite, though I know that strange things can happen with turbulent flow.IanB2 said:
It was discovered as recently as 2009 that smaller rain droplets actually fall faster than larger ones. Plus there are more small droplets in drizzle than large droplets in a downpour, and small droplets are more likely to stick to you rather than bounce off. It’s all scientifically proven....OldKingCole said:
Yes; as an Essex boy, when I went to live in Manchester (long time ago) for a while, I couldn't believe how wet one could get.IanB2 said:
It’s that fine rain that soaks you through?OldKingCole said:
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.
As Lost Password points out it only says that they are moving faster than expected, not faster than the larger drops.
I expect that raindrops breaking up or colliding would explain most if not all of it. It would also be interesting to see if the smaller “super-terminal” drops are moving at a steady speed or slowing down like a parachutist who has just opened her parachute.0 -
It was. And Labour have been called out on this lie beforeRobD said:
Wasn't the promise 100k tests a day? Not surprising though, as won't people in hospitals will be checked regularly?Foxy said:
Well, yes and no. Until the last few days, Tier 2 tests were recorded centrally, not seen by local Public Health.Philip_Thompson said:
Backward tracing is surely a different thing again to track and trace?Foxy said:
Track and Trace is not the reason for the increase in testing in Leics. Indeed it is rather a flop. To quote yesterday's PHE report:Philip_Thompson said:
I've said before hopefully now we're catching cases in the community sooner because of track and trace rather than catching only the sickest in the hospital. So the decrease in cases in reality is probably even more stark than the decrease in confirmed cases.Foxy said:
Though no spike in Leicester deaths. 7 were added this week, but the most recent of these was on 24/6. Inpatients down again today too, to 70.Malmesbury said:England down to Low Level Authority - Pillar 1 & 2
1.5 Backward contact tracing
A current study on the utility of backward contact tracing is being piloted across England. Leicester city residents have been included in the pilot. Against an intended sample of 50 cases, only 11 cases in the city had successfully completed the study until 24 June 2020. Preliminary analysis of the 11 cases did not identify any events with multiple households attending. Most of the cases did not report leaving home, other than for visiting supermarkets
Ie track and trace is saying "Bob has the virus, Bob has been in touch with these 8 people, get them tested" - whereas I would imagine that backwards tracing is "Bob has the virus, who did he get it from and did anyone else get it from the same event?"
Nationally we seem to be catching a far, far higher proportion of cases in the community than we are in the hospital. So either the disease is suddenly much less deadly (unlikely) or we're getting better as a country at tracking who's got it.
Incidentally the number of tested persons is available at last too.
https://twitter.com/justinmadders/status/1278806189980123136?s=091 -
I still believe that the internationally mobile are a biohazard for everyone. By definition they have a broader range of contacts, they use airports where the risk of contamination by others in transit is high, they introduce a new set of germs that the locals are not used to, it is hardly surprising that they can also transmit Covid. In this country it appears that those who enjoyed the ski slopes of Italy played an important part in the spread of the virus. This has been clearly recognised by countries like NZ who have been successful in eliminating the virus and even China where most cases after the initial wave were traced to those coming from outside.Pulpstar said:
Quite right too. We're still a biohazard of a nation compared to plenty of placesOldKingCole said:IanB2 said:Shapps now saying "over 50" countries will be on the quarantine-exempt traffic light list to be announced later. Yesterday government was briefing "about 75".
Gather we can go to Thailand, but the Thais won't let us in!
It is why our own approach to quarantine has completely bewildered me from the very start. Is it the lobbying power of the airline industry, a reluctance from those in that class to accept the consequences of their actions or just wilful blindness? I really and genuinely don't get it.2 -
So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?0
-
How on earth does a detail like that get missedIanB2 said:BREAKING: It is now revealed that people tested during the initial rollout of the testing programme in April were not asked for their postcode. They're now scrabbling around trying to retrospectively obtain the information from people who were tested.
0 -
What about dismantling capitalism?CorrectHorseBattery said:0 -
This is one of the big problems for the UK and something the Government had control over. It's now too late.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/12788037914254827520 -
Not only that it is utterly disingenuous to count the number of unique people over a period of months then divide between the number of days.Charles said:
It was. And Labour have been called out on this lie beforeRobD said:
Wasn't the promise 100k tests a day? Not surprising though, as won't people in hospitals will be checked regularly?Foxy said:
Well, yes and no. Until the last few days, Tier 2 tests were recorded centrally, not seen by local Public Health.Philip_Thompson said:
Backward tracing is surely a different thing again to track and trace?Foxy said:
Track and Trace is not the reason for the increase in testing in Leics. Indeed it is rather a flop. To quote yesterday's PHE report:Philip_Thompson said:
I've said before hopefully now we're catching cases in the community sooner because of track and trace rather than catching only the sickest in the hospital. So the decrease in cases in reality is probably even more stark than the decrease in confirmed cases.Foxy said:
Though no spike in Leicester deaths. 7 were added this week, but the most recent of these was on 24/6. Inpatients down again today too, to 70.Malmesbury said:England down to Low Level Authority - Pillar 1 & 2
1.5 Backward contact tracing
A current study on the utility of backward contact tracing is being piloted across England. Leicester city residents have been included in the pilot. Against an intended sample of 50 cases, only 11 cases in the city had successfully completed the study until 24 June 2020. Preliminary analysis of the 11 cases did not identify any events with multiple households attending. Most of the cases did not report leaving home, other than for visiting supermarkets
Ie track and trace is saying "Bob has the virus, Bob has been in touch with these 8 people, get them tested" - whereas I would imagine that backwards tracing is "Bob has the virus, who did he get it from and did anyone else get it from the same event?"
Nationally we seem to be catching a far, far higher proportion of cases in the community than we are in the hospital. So either the disease is suddenly much less deadly (unlikely) or we're getting better as a country at tracking who's got it.
Incidentally the number of tested persons is available at last too.
https://twitter.com/justinmadders/status/1278806189980123136?s=09
100k unique people could be tested today and 100k unique people could be tested tomorrow but that doesn't mean 200k unique people have been tested. If there are clinical reasons to repeatedly test the same person, eg they're a hospital in patient or on the front line should we be saying "sorry you had a test already we need to test someone else today so you're out of luck".1 -
I agree with the concept of "black lives matter", I don't agree with the organisation "Black Lives Matter" or "Black Lives Matter UK". That's what I think Keir was getting at.rottenborough said:
What about dismantling capitalism?CorrectHorseBattery said:2 -
You didn't go read their earlier research release?Fysics_Teacher said:
Thanks for that.IanB2 said:
https://www.mtu.edu/news/stories/2015/february/falling-faster-researchers-confirm-super-terminal-raindrops.htmlFysics_Teacher said:
That l need to see a source for: the basic physics suggests the opposite, though I know that strange things can happen with turbulent flow.IanB2 said:
It was discovered as recently as 2009 that smaller rain droplets actually fall faster than larger ones. Plus there are more small droplets in drizzle than large droplets in a downpour, and small droplets are more likely to stick to you rather than bounce off. It’s all scientifically proven....OldKingCole said:
Yes; as an Essex boy, when I went to live in Manchester (long time ago) for a while, I couldn't believe how wet one could get.IanB2 said:
It’s that fine rain that soaks you through?OldKingCole said:
Steady heavy drizzle is better for the garden than a short sharp shower. The former soaks in; the latter just washes the top off.ydoethur said:
Pissing it down in Cannock, just as I’m about to go shopping.OldKingCole said:
'How the cookie crumbles' has been around for quite a while, hasn't it.eristdoof said:
Cookie is used in England. It is a subcategory of biscuit, the type of biscuit common in the US. The most common type is chocolate chip cookie, which sounds really odd if you call it a "chocolat chip buscuit".SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Shouldn't that be "biscuit"? Or is there some perverted, sinister meaning of "cookie" in common Brit-speak that a sheltered one such as meself shudders to contemplate???CorrectHorseBattery said:A free cookie for every mention of PB Tories, yum yum
And good morning everyone; hope today's weather improves after the downpours we had yesterday!
Good for the garden, though.
As Lost Password points out it only says that they are moving faster than expected, not faster than the larger drops.
I expect that raindrops breaking up or colliding would explain most if not all of it. It would also be interesting to see if the smaller “super-terminal” drops are moving at a steady speed or slowing down like a parachutist who has just opened her parachute.
Some smaller raindrops can fall faster than bigger ones. In fact, they can fall faster than their terminal speed. In other words, they can fall faster than drops that size and weight are supposed to be able to fall0 -
Set up a televised debate between them "The Winner stays on" .Andy_JS said:David Starkey and Priyamvada Gopal.
Discuss.0 -
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1278957882378248192
What are the thoughts on Ash's tweet here? Anti-Semitic?0 -
Agreed.Luckyguy1983 said:Great thread Stodge.
To be fair, 'why are there so many damn blacks' is not a comment you could ever utter on a recording and still expect to be employed on mainstream television or radio. He is a silly man. It's just such a stupid thing to say.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
From the (little) I know of him, DS enjoys making controversial statement. Which is generally good publicity. However, in troubled times such as these, it's a habit that can backfire - and leave the speaker with his tender hind-quarters falling down a big, wide crack.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.Andy_JS said:BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Such are these times, and such is DS's ass. My sympathy is limited by fact that, he SHOULD have known better. Certainly would have IF he'd paid more attention to 2020 American media coverage than to 1520 English palace intrigue.Luckyguy1983 said:Great thread Stodge.
To be fair, 'why are there so many damn blacks' is not a comment you could ever utter on a recording and still expect to be employed on mainstream television or radio. He is a silly man. It's just such a stupid thing to say.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
From the (little) I know of him, DS enjoys making controversial statement. Which is generally good publicity. However, in troubled times such as these, it's a habit that can backfire - and leave the speaker with his tender hind-quarters falling down a big, wide crack.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.Andy_JS said:BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Such are these times, and such is DS's ass. My sympathy is limited by fact that, he SHOULD have known better. Certainly would have IF he'd paid more attention to 2020 American media coverage than to 1520 English palace intrigue.
Agreed. But at least you know where you are with people like that. It's the ones who are thinking that but find more subtle ways of signalling their racist messages that are really dangerous.Luckyguy1983 said:Great thread Stodge.
To be fair, 'why are there so many damn blacks' is not a comment you could ever utter on a recording and still expect to be employed on mainstream television or radio. He is a silly man. It's just such a stupid thing to say.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
From the (little) I know of him, DS enjoys making controversial statement. Which is generally good publicity. However, in troubled times such as these, it's a habit that can backfire - and leave the speaker with his tender hind-quarters falling down a big, wide crack.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.Andy_JS said:BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Such are these times, and such is DS's ass. My sympathy is limited by fact that, he SHOULD have known better. Certainly would have IF he'd paid more attention to 2020 American media coverage than to 1520 English palace intrigue.0 -
Wasn’t there a long article in the Mail 2 weeks ago saying that she was living in an elegant flat in Paris and helpfully having a map showing it was only 400 yards from the Israeli embassy...DecrepiterJohnL said:
If Maxwell is a flight risk, why hadn't she flown? WTF was she still doing in America? As for Prince Andrew, even if innocent (and allowing for some fudging on different ages of majority) the question remains, what is he for?SeaShantyIrish2 said:As for Whats-Her-Name Maxwell, here in US the Court TV cable channel is ALL over her case. Reporting that she appeared at initial hearing this via zoom proceedings in orange prison jump suit; fashion note "she didn't look disheveled but she sure didn't look put together".
Bail hearing scheduled for Monday, feds will oppose granting her bail on grounds (pretty ample I'd say) that she's a flight risk. Speculation (pretty obvious I'd say) that she may cut some kind of deal with the feds. Attorneys for victims say her arrest is very good news, because she's got all the ledgers, black books and other key documentation that will put some big fish right into DOJ's net.
His Foul Highness Prince Andrew is toast. Won't be long before some courtier is advising him to put his head in an oven - gas or electric - and push the button.
OR maybe take a slow boat to Pitcairn Island - show up wearing a mask & claiming to be Fletcher Christian's 14th cousin 13 times removed.
The romantic in me is rooting for Option A.0 -
Present but not involvedCorrectHorseBattery said:
I agree with the concept of "black lives matter", I don't agree with the organisation "Black Lives Matter" or "Black Lives Matter UK". That's what I think Keir was getting at.rottenborough said:
What about dismantling capitalism?CorrectHorseBattery said:
0 -
Public Health England now breaking Pillar2 figures down to local area level rather than being placed under 'Commercial Partners'.
This makes drilling down much more informative.
https://verify-it-c19data.co.uk/1 -
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1278955144667955200
This will end badly.
For a start, a showman(person) will have to be brought in to handle the briefings. Someone who they think can 'reach over the heads of the media and talk to middle england'. This will lead to poor appointments potentially, as Trump has shown in spades.
I also, sadly, suspect this is lead to even more lies from Johnson's administration.
Can MPs block this?0 -
A linguistic questionDecrepiterJohnL said:
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.Andy_JS said:BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?0 -
Where are you finding that? It does seem obvious that some of the pillar 2 people will end up in hospital and also become pillar 1 people.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Edit, sorry, its ok, I've found it.0 -
Another question, does this mean the government's R calculation has been incorrect all this time as well and it's actually a lot lower?0
-
Simpler to argue that the Americans have already stated that family of diplomats don’t have to be extradited.edmundintokyo said:
The British need to bolster their claim to Pitcairn as an integral part of the UK to help with the TPP application, so pass a special law protecting Pitcairn residents from extradition then send him over there to represent the nation in an official capacity.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
OR maybe take a slow boat to Pitcairn Island - show up wearing a mask & claiming to be Fletcher Christian's 14th cousin 13 times removed.0 -
Every country in the world will effectively be on a de facto quarantine exempt list for entry to the UK. Unless there is a step change in enforcement to enforce fines and monitoring it still amounts to no more than voluntary guidance. As it stands, enforcement is going to be by sample of 1 in 5 only using text messages as the means of sampling. Text messages - what are they going to say - maybe "tell us if you have breached quarantine so that we can send you a fine"? Good luck with that. And given the UK government's abject failure to follow through effectively what it promises, don't hold your breath that even that will happen.IanB2 said:Shapps now saying "over 50" countries will be on the quarantine-exempt traffic light list to be announced later. Yesterday government was briefing "about 75".
Up to 26th June, not a single person had been fined by the UK Border Force for breach of quarantine regulations.1 -
"The methodology for reporting positive cases changed on 2 July 2020 to remove duplicates within and across pillars 1 and 2, to ensure that a person who tests positive is only counted once. Due to this change, and a revision of historical data in pillar 1, the cumulative total for positive cases is 30,302 lower than if you added the daily figure to yesterday’s total.DavidL said:
Where are you finding that? It does seem obvious that some of the pillar 2 people will end up in hospital and also become pillar 1 people.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Edit, sorry, its ok, I've found it.
Numbers of lab-confirmed positive cases throughout this website now include those identified by testing in all settings (pillars 1 and 2)."
https://verify-it-c19data.co.uk/0 -
Well not really, your argument is ridiculous.MaxPB said:
Present but not involvedCorrectHorseBattery said:
I agree with the concept of "black lives matter", I don't agree with the organisation "Black Lives Matter" or "Black Lives Matter UK". That's what I think Keir was getting at.rottenborough said:
What about dismantling capitalism?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Do you agree with everything the Tories do? No, of course not - in your world though, it's black and white.
Of course black lives matter, I am very comfortable with that concept. I don't like what the organisation is doing.0 -
From the government's own websiteDavidL said:
Where are you finding that? It does seem obvious that some of the pillar 2 people will end up in hospital and also become pillar 1 people.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Edit, sorry, its ok, I've found it.
"The methodology for reporting positive cases changed on 2 July 2020 to remove duplicates within and across pillars 1 and 2, to ensure that a person who tests positive is only counted once. Due to this change, and a revision of historical data in pillar 1, the cumulative total for positive cases is 30,302 lower than if you added the daily figure to yesterday’s total."0 -
One major fly in the ointment of Liberal Unionism as described here is Northern Ireland. As long as none of the major parties organise and stand for election in NI it is obvious that its status is different. There is lots of support for British Unionism but not truly UK unionism.0
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Which is all fine, but he should have thought about all of this before bending the knee. It was a cheap, ill thought out gesture designed to get headlines. Starmer is supposed to be the thinking man's Labour leader, on this evidence he's not living up to that.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Well not really, your argument is ridiculous.MaxPB said:
Present but not involvedCorrectHorseBattery said:
I agree with the concept of "black lives matter", I don't agree with the organisation "Black Lives Matter" or "Black Lives Matter UK". That's what I think Keir was getting at.rottenborough said:
What about dismantling capitalism?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Do you agree with everything the Tories do? No, of course not - in your world though, it's black and white.
Of course black lives matter, I am very comfortable with that concept. I don't like what the organisation is doing.0 -
Given he spent a huge amount of time scheming against Hartington/Devonshire for control of the Liberal Unionist Party, which he finally won as a side-effect of his Tariff Reform Campaign in 1903, he would have disagreed with you.Charles said:Good article @stodge although I would take issue with describing Joe Chamberlain as a Liberal Unionist.
He certainly made common cause with them, but was at heart a Radical and Imperial Preferencer as you note. That’s a very different strain within the Tory Party (if you recall, my thread was Ultras, Liberal Unionists and Radicals) even though they had common branding for a while. The Liberal Unionists were originally grouped around the Cavendish family, but more recent examples are people like Carson, Mayhew, Hurd, Ancram, etc. They had disappeared under Blair and Cameron, quiescent given the dominance of the metropolitan interest.
In my view the current government is a slightly odd mix of Liberal Unionist and Radical. I like their instincts but just wish they had the ability and focus to deliver on them!1 -
Working to the contract in the private sector is the equivalent to the jobsworth mentality in the public sector.Pulpstar said:
How on earth does a detail like that get missedIanB2 said:BREAKING: It is now revealed that people tested during the initial rollout of the testing programme in April were not asked for their postcode. They're now scrabbling around trying to retrospectively obtain the information from people who were tested.
"Why isn't postcode on this list of data we should collect?"
"Dunno, but if they didn't ask for it we don't collect it."
"Yeah, but, isn't it going to be needed - "
"Not our decision is it?"
"Shouldn't we check whether they want it?"
"No - it will only slow us down and if they want it they can ask (and pay) for it."
In either sectors, when you encourage people to care about doing the job properly then questions like that are asked and dealt with early on. But sometimes - in either sector - you can get in trouble for making a nuisance of yourself. So people just do what they are told to do, even if they can see it should be done better.1
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