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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Weighing up the Biden VP pick betting

SystemSystem Posts: 11,015
edited June 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Weighing up the Biden VP pick betting

There has been article overnight that appears to be well-informed with those close to the matter that Biden’s choice for VP candidate has narrowed down to six candidates. Elizabeth Warren, Susan Rice and Kamala Harris are specifically mentioned, while the comments suggest that the other three advisors have looked closely at Val Demings, Keisha Lance Bottoms and Michelle Lujan Grisham, the Governor of New Mexico. 

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,137
    edited June 2020
    First like Kamala?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,475
    edited June 2020
    2nd.

    Because it's there.

    This is a little vid that @DougSeal might enjoy (if Vimeo embeds).

    You can see it is made by a techno-nerd not an artiste. The frame on the left is displaying 75 photos a second.

    https://vimeo.com/35507705
  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited June 2020
    Bit simplistic of course, but useful summary. Flipping Michigan+Wisconson+NE2 gets Biden within 10 electoral college votes - Arizona (11) for the tipping point?

    https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1271810824840110080
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Because it's there.

    This is a little vid that @DougSeal might enjoy (if Vimeo embeds).

    You can see it is made by a techno-nerd not an artiste. The frame on the left is displaying 75 photos a second.

    https://vimeo.com/35507705

    Awesome! (if a little intimidating for an amateur like me!)
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    BBC Headline - Police are pelted with bottles during confrontations with groups including right-wing activists.

    Bit different from last weeks headline.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2020
    Italy, Germany, France and the Netherlands have signed a deal with AstraZeneca for the pharmaceutical firm to supply European citizens with a coronavirus vaccine, Italy's health minister has said.

    The contract is for 400 million doses of the potential vaccine, which is being developed with the University of Oxford in the UK. Its experimentation phase is expected to end this autumn.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    BBC Headline - Police are pelted with bottles during confrontations with groups including right-wing activists.

    Bit different from last weeks headline.

    How many will be injured, more or less than the 30 in the peaceful protests last time.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,475
    edited June 2020
    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Because it's there.

    This is a little vid that @DougSeal might enjoy (if Vimeo embeds).

    You can see it is made by a techno-nerd not an artiste. The frame on the left is displaying 75 photos a second.

    https://vimeo.com/35507705

    Awesome! (if a little intimidating for an amateur like me!)
    Remember it's all for fun.

    That chap was using a Canon 1D 15 years ago - £5k camera, and set off with a goal of photographing every significant detail of every rural parish church and all of the buildings in Pevsner.

    Mad as a premeditated hatter.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    MaxPB said:

    BBC Headline - Police are pelted with bottles during confrontations with groups including right-wing activists.

    Bit different from last weeks headline.

    How many will be injured, more or less than the 30 in the peaceful protests last time.
    I’m not sure that particular type of point scoring is helpful.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    If you look at the photos of the far right protests in the press you see things you don;t normally see at far right protests.

    Yes there are the usual loudmouth shaven headed tattooed idiots, but there are also decorated veterans and green berets that look like they might be Royal Marines....???

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,854

    Italy, Germany, France and the Netherlands have signed a deal with AstraZeneca for the pharmaceutical firm to supply European citizens with a coronavirus vaccine, Italy's health minister has said.

    The contract is for 400 million doses of the potential vaccine, which is being developed with the University of Oxford in the UK. Its experimentation phase is expected to end this autumn.

    Nice that they are doing it all at NO profit, hopefully the vaccine works.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    MattW said:

    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Because it's there.

    This is a little vid that @DougSeal might enjoy (if Vimeo embeds).

    You can see it is made by a techno-nerd not an artiste. The frame on the left is displaying 75 photos a second.

    https://vimeo.com/35507705

    Awesome! (if a little intimidating for an amateur like me!)
    Remember it's all for fun.

    That chap was using a Canon 1D 15 years ago - £5k camera, and set off with a goal of photographing every significant detail of every rural parish church and all of the buildings in Pevsner.
    My interest is a little more specialised - I’m into reformation history and am fascinated by the rood screens etc that parishioners hid by painting over them when Henry VIII’s boys came round. A good example near me, that I’m starting with as soon as I can, are the 13th Century paintings in Brook Church near Ashford in Kent -

    https://www.britainexpress.com/counties/kent/churches/brook.htm
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,137

    If you look at the photos of the far right protests in the press you see things you don;t normally see at far right protests.

    Yes there are the usual loudmouth shaven headed tattooed idiots, but there are also decorated veterans and green berets that look like they might be Royal Marines....???

    Are these people genuine former Royal Marines and other associated war heroes, or are they similar to another national hero who owns his own Purple Heart but never made it to Vietnam on account of his heel spurs?
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    In statue removing news

    https://twitter.com/ryanhermens/status/1271793372517236737

    Kentucky wasn't part of the Confederacy.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,854
    Last 7 days COVID deaths (confirmed with a test)

    Scot: 33 (6/million)
    England: 1122 (20/million)

    Death rate in England 3.5x higher in last week than Scot. Scottish Government
    decision to take a cautious approach for last month has clearly now been vindicated.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    edited June 2020
    malcolmg said:

    Italy, Germany, France and the Netherlands have signed a deal with AstraZeneca for the pharmaceutical firm to supply European citizens with a coronavirus vaccine, Italy's health minister has said.

    The contract is for 400 million doses of the potential vaccine, which is being developed with the University of Oxford in the UK. Its experimentation phase is expected to end this autumn.

    Nice that they are doing it all at NO profit, hopefully the vaccine works.
    If it works, every available production facility in the world will be running 24/7 for as long as it takes to produce eight billion vaccines. Good luck to them!
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2020
    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Italy, Germany, France and the Netherlands have signed a deal with AstraZeneca for the pharmaceutical firm to supply European citizens with a coronavirus vaccine, Italy's health minister has said.

    The contract is for 400 million doses of the potential vaccine, which is being developed with the University of Oxford in the UK. Its experimentation phase is expected to end this autumn.

    Nice that they are doing it all at NO profit, hopefully the vaccine works.
    If it works, every available production facility in the world will be running 24/7 for as long as it takes to produce eight billion vaccines. Good luck to them!
    I presume if it is found only to be partially protective (but safe), we will all be getting it given they will have made so much of it anyway.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Kind of on topic for the day's events but more because it is just a fascinating story.

    The history behind one of the few exchanges of fire in anger on British soil in WW2.

    https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

    That is fascinating, thanks. And while it's naive to think there's no racism in Britain, it's clear from that the issue is much worse and much more deeply-rooted in America.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:

    MaxPB said:

    BBC Headline - Police are pelted with bottles during confrontations with groups including right-wing activists.

    Bit different from last weeks headline.

    How many will be injured, more or less than the 30 in the peaceful protests last time.
    I’m not sure that particular type of point scoring is helpful.
    I'm just very disappointed at the whole situation tbh. The failure to stop the mob last time has brought a new mob out onto the streets of my city. They have been given licence to be a mob by the government and police's failure to break up the last one. In the same way I wanted the last mob to be broken up and charged with whatever possible, I want this one to be charged with whatever possible. Unfortunately we're in a situation where the first mob wasn't charged or broken up so there is no way they can break up and charge the second one.

    For the first time I'm worried about the future of this country, our failure to confront last week's reactionaries will have wide ranging repercussions for a long time to come.
    The old geezer wandering around his garden to raise millions for the NHS that captivated the nation seems a lifetime ago.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    Alistair said:

    In statue removing news

    https://twitter.com/ryanhermens/status/1271793372517236737

    Kentucky wasn't part of the Confederacy.

    It was the only state that tried to stay neutral. Which worked about as well as you might think.
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,218
    Pondlife now urinating over the memorial to Keith Palmer
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,137

    Kind of on topic for the day's events but more because it is just a fascinating story.

    The history behind one of the few exchanges of fire in anger on British soil in WW2.

    https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

    Thanks for the link.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936

    If you look at the photos of the far right protests in the press you see things you don;t normally see at far right protests.

    Yes there are the usual loudmouth shaven headed tattooed idiots, but there are also decorated veterans and green berets that look like they might be Royal Marines....???

    That is because there are a number of separate protests going on at the same time. The veterans had organised a march and protest which was supposed to go to the Cenotaph. When they got there the police then moved them on down to Parliament Square. As always (and just as with the BLM marches) it is not possible to consider them as single events and claim everyone has the same aims or acts in the same way.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    edited June 2020

    Kind of on topic for the day's events but more because it is just a fascinating story.

    The history behind one of the few exchanges of fire in anger on British soil in WW2.

    https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

    A story I hadn't read previously, and more proof of the very different attitudes to race in British and American societies - something which persists to this day. Thanks for posting.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    Surely Keisha Lance Bottoms is ruled out on the grounds that Biden Bottoms would be a ridiculous ticket name.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,475
    edited June 2020
    Essexit said:

    Kind of on topic for the day's events but more because it is just a fascinating story.

    The history behind one of the few exchanges of fire in anger on British soil in WW2.

    https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

    That is fascinating, thanks. And while it's naive to think there's no racism in Britain, it's clear from that the issue is much worse and much more deeply-rooted in America.
    I think living memory or not is significant.

    The first year in the US with no recorded lynchings was 1952. (Wiki)
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited June 2020

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Italy, Germany, France and the Netherlands have signed a deal with AstraZeneca for the pharmaceutical firm to supply European citizens with a coronavirus vaccine, Italy's health minister has said.

    The contract is for 400 million doses of the potential vaccine, which is being developed with the University of Oxford in the UK. Its experimentation phase is expected to end this autumn.

    Nice that they are doing it all at NO profit, hopefully the vaccine works.
    If it works, every available production facility in the world will be running 24/7 for as long as it takes to produce eight billion vaccines. Good luck to them!
    I presume if it is found only to be partially protective (but safe), we will all be getting it given they will have made so much of it anyway.
    There is no such thing as a completely "safe" vaccine.

    All vaccines kill someone. Vaccination always carries some risk (usually extremely small) to any individual. When you vaccinate billions of people, you always kill some people. Usually the very elderly and vulnerable.

    If you vaccinate billions of people with a new and rushed vaccine, then the death toll may not be so small.

    (As always, the optimum strategy for any one vulnerable person is NOT to get vaccinated, but let everyone else take the tiny risk and get vaccinated. But, I expect Governments will make it compulsory, if they can).

    FWIW, I think the vaccine will work at some level, probably for normal healthy adults. The largely undiscussed question is will at work for the people who really need it, the very elderly and those with pre-existing medical issues.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,952

    Kind of on topic for the day's events but more because it is just a fascinating story.

    The history behind one of the few exchanges of fire in anger on British soil in WW2.

    https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

    Yes. The Battle of Bamber Bridge is a story which deserves a wider audience.
    Thanks for posting.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    tlg86 said:

    Surely Keisha Lance Bottoms is ruled out on the grounds that Biden Bottoms would be a ridiculous ticket name.

    TSE will be along in a moment with his "Ramsbottom" Minions gif.....
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936

    If you look at the photos of the far right protests in the press you see things you don;t normally see at far right protests.

    Yes there are the usual loudmouth shaven headed tattooed idiots, but there are also decorated veterans and green berets that look like they might be Royal Marines....???

    Are these people genuine former Royal Marines and other associated war heroes, or are they similar to another national hero who owns his own Purple Heart but never made it to Vietnam on account of his heel spurs?
    You may not be aware but there is a very extensive and very very active network in place to spot 'cumpers'. They really don't last long before they are exposed. This lot are certainly genuine.
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,286
    edited June 2020
    Total UK:

    Positive tests 1,425
    Deaths 181

    Positive tests number so so I would say - lower than same day last week (1,557) but above yesterday's 7 day rolling average (1,326).

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public#number-of-cases-and-deaths
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,922
    Scott_xP said:
    If the Churchill statue hadn’t been boarded up they’d be pissing on that too.

  • Options
    The good news is that Hills are still offering 40/1 against Michelle Lujan Grisham ... did you miss that one Mr Ed? The bad news is that they would only allow me to stake 62p, but there again Hills don't like me very much and others might fare better.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502
    edited June 2020

    If you look at the photos of the far right protests in the press you see things you don;t normally see at far right protests.

    Yes there are the usual loudmouth shaven headed tattooed idiots, but there are also decorated veterans and green berets that look like they might be Royal Marines....???

    That is because there are a number of separate protests going on at the same time. The veterans had organised a march and protest which was supposed to go to the Cenotaph. When they got there the police then moved them on down to Parliament Square. As always (and just as with the BLM marches) it is not possible to consider them as single events and claim everyone has the same aims or acts in the same way.
    Sounds about right.
    I recommend (the Telegraph’s) Ed Clowes’ twitter feed, which gives a good, and slightly bemused, account of what’s going on.
    https://twitter.com/EdClowes/status/1271787142377865220
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936
    Sandpit said:

    Kind of on topic for the day's events but more because it is just a fascinating story.

    The history behind one of the few exchanges of fire in anger on British soil in WW2.

    https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

    A story I hadn't read previously, and more proof of the very different attitudes to race in British and American societies - something which persists to this day. Thanks for posting.
    I went looking because my Mum yesterday was telling me about life in London in later WW2. She said that when large numbers of US troops started arriving the British government were handing out leaflets to the US troops with guidance on the way things are done in Britain. These included a comment along the lines of 'We are not racists. A black man has as much right to drink in a British Pub as a white man'.

    I am sure that was not the wording or even close. But that was the basic message being given.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256
    Essexit said:

    Kind of on topic for the day's events but more because it is just a fascinating story.

    The history behind one of the few exchanges of fire in anger on British soil in WW2.

    https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

    That is fascinating, thanks. And while it's naive to think there's no racism in Britain, it's clear from that the issue is much worse and much more deeply-rooted in America.
    Segregation and racism are related, but not the same.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256

    Scott_xP said:
    If the Churchill statue hadn’t been boarded up they’d be pissing on that too.

    because they think Boris is hiding inside?
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MattW said:

    Essexit said:

    Kind of on topic for the day's events but more because it is just a fascinating story.

    The history behind one of the few exchanges of fire in anger on British soil in WW2.

    https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

    That is fascinating, thanks. And while it's naive to think there's no racism in Britain, it's clear from that the issue is much worse and much more deeply-rooted in America.
    I think living memory or not is significant.

    The first year in the US with no recorded lynchings was 1952. (Wiki)
    The recentness of interracial marriage being illegal in a great many American states is still shocking to me

    https://twitter.com/soledadobrien/status/1271475483809665025
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    booksellerbookseller Posts: 421
    dixiedean said:

    Kind of on topic for the day's events but more because it is just a fascinating story.

    The history behind one of the few exchanges of fire in anger on British soil in WW2.

    https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

    Yes. The Battle of Bamber Bridge is a story which deserves a wider audience.
    Thanks for posting.
    Yes, thanks very much for posting this.

    I can also recommend 'The Street Sweeper' by Elliot Perlman. It's an extraordinary work of fiction (and a tough, unflinching read in places) that has, as one of its core themes, the impact on black GIs of witnessing first hand liberated death camps, and the impact this had on the civil rights movement when they got back to the US.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,972
    dixiedean said:

    Kind of on topic for the day's events but more because it is just a fascinating story.

    The history behind one of the few exchanges of fire in anger on British soil in WW2.

    https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

    Yes. The Battle of Bamber Bridge is a story which deserves a wider audience.
    Thanks for posting.
    The first Nevil Shute book that I read, the Chequer Board deals, inter alia, with the relationships between the people of a small Cornish town and the black American battalion stationed there.
    White American troops arrive later, and resent the good relationships the Black troops have established with the locals.
    The situation is exacerbated when someone (IIRC from the military press or Pr) is sent to the town to see how things are going an an old man in the pub, when asked 'How do you get on with the Americans?" And replies that he likes them, very good men. 'I don't like these new white ones though".
    I can recall that clearly.
    Shute wrote the book in 1945/6
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Kind of on topic for the day's events but more because it is just a fascinating story.

    The history behind one of the few exchanges of fire in anger on British soil in WW2.

    https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

    That's really fascinating! Quite close to where I currently live and I'd never heard of that story. Good to know a bit more local history and it's quite an interesting difference between the Yanks and us.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,192
    NYTimes also had a Veep catwalk piece.

    They mentioned Gina Raimondo
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,661
    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Because it's there.

    This is a little vid that @DougSeal might enjoy (if Vimeo embeds).

    You can see it is made by a techno-nerd not an artiste. The frame on the left is displaying 75 photos a second.

    https://vimeo.com/35507705

    What are those things at )):34 on the right, please? I wondered about horse/tiger heads but that can't be rignt
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,661

    Sandpit said:

    Kind of on topic for the day's events but more because it is just a fascinating story.

    The history behind one of the few exchanges of fire in anger on British soil in WW2.

    https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

    A story I hadn't read previously, and more proof of the very different attitudes to race in British and American societies - something which persists to this day. Thanks for posting.
    I went looking because my Mum yesterday was telling me about life in London in later WW2. She said that when large numbers of US troops started arriving the British government were handing out leaflets to the US troops with guidance on the way things are done in Britain. These included a comment along the lines of 'We are not racists. A black man has as much right to drink in a British Pub as a white man'.

    I am sure that was not the wording or even close. But that was the basic message being given.
    My late father was being trained in the Navy in the Plymouth area in later WW2. Of course this was in the SW where the US Army was stationed before Overlord. There was an incident where an African-American serviceman got drunk and made the mistake of being mouthy to the two white US MPs - probably Southerners - who were called to the pub or club. They shot him dead on the spot. The Brits were so shocked that the story spread right across the Plymouth area and my father never forgot hearing about it.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,941
    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:

    MaxPB said:

    BBC Headline - Police are pelted with bottles during confrontations with groups including right-wing activists.

    Bit different from last weeks headline.

    How many will be injured, more or less than the 30 in the peaceful protests last time.
    I’m not sure that particular type of point scoring is helpful.
    I'm just very disappointed at the whole situation tbh. The failure to stop the mob last time has brought a new mob out onto the streets of my city. They have been given licence to be a mob by the government and police's failure to break up the last one. In the same way I wanted the last mob to be broken up and charged with whatever possible, I want this one to be charged with whatever possible. Unfortunately we're in a situation where the first mob wasn't charged or broken up so there is no way they can break up and charge the second one.

    For the first time I'm worried about the future of this country, our failure to confront last week's reactionaries will have wide ranging repercussions for a long time to come.
    Totally agree Max, its so sad. This is what comes from the police not enforcing order.

    This week I stood up for Baden Powell's statue in Poole. But I am so pleased that it was entirely peaceful throughout.

    I'm not excusing either last week or this week in Town, to be clear. I am similarly in despair over it.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,056
    MikeL said:

    Total UK:

    Positive tests 1,425
    Deaths 181

    Positive tests number so so I would say - lower than same day last week (1,557) but above yesterday's 7 day rolling average (1,326).

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public#number-of-cases-and-deaths

    The list of Saturday announcements are:

    Positive tests: 1425, 1557, 2445, 2959, 3451, 3896, 4806
    Deaths: 181, 204, 226, 282, 468, 346*, 621

    * Reduced by Friday 08/05 being a bank holiday.

    What looks pretty clear is that the Dominic Cummings story did not lead to an increase in infection.
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    The good news is that Hills are still offering 40/1 against Michelle Lujan Grisham ... did you miss that one Mr Ed? The bad news is that they would only allow me to stake 62p, but there again Hills don't like me very much and others might fare better.

    Thanks Peter, I missed that one. Good news is I went on williamhill.com. The bad news is the odds are now 25/1 :(

    Thanks for flagging though
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,814
    One positive thought on superspreaders and risk:

    - We know that some people spread the virus far more than others. R is famously an average; the superspreaders drive it up. It's not that mysterious as to why it should be so; there are a number of important variables:

    1 - Some people have wider circles of friends and acquaintances and are in closer contact with more people more often. The more people you are in contact with per day, the more opportunities for infection.
    2 - The presymptomatic (but infectious) period varies between a day or two and up to a fortnight (averaging around 4-5 days). The longer the presymptomatic period, the more opportunities for infection
    3 - The personal space preferred by different people varies (some are huggier and kissier; some are more standoffish). The closer you get, the more chance of infection.
    4 - There may be other factors, such as a higher viral load, that can act to make you more infectious.

    Anyone for whom those variables are all over to the high side will likely be a superspreader. It's all a factor of statistics and luck, and these people are the ones who unknowingly stack the deck in favour of the virus.

    Of those, variables 1 and 3, as well as making you more likely to spread the disease, make you more likely to get the disease.

    There's a fifth variable as well: carelessness. Some months ago, my eldest daughter's long-term boyfriend split up with her. We were sad about this; he'd been a part of the household for years.

    Early in the pandemic, we learned he'd contracted covid-19. It flattened him for weeks, and he's had a prolonged issue with lung capacity ever since (he's a healthy, fit 26-year-old).

    We all said to ourselves when we learned he'd had it: if anyone was going to get it, he would. He's famously careless and blase about many things and he'd probably caught it due to not taking care over social distancing.

    So - those who are prone to be superspreaders, and those who are the most careless (and especially those who are both careless and prone to be superspreaders) are most likely to catch it early.

    If the careless and the superspreaders (and the careless superspreaders) were the ones most likely to contract it before and during lockdown (push the chances of catching it down and these are the most likely by far to get it), then their ability to spread it was very limited while they had the window. In short, the residual R number may (and I stress the "may") be now be significantly lower - if the superspreaders are concentrated in the 5%, or 10%, or 15% or however many have already had it.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,056
    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:

    MaxPB said:

    BBC Headline - Police are pelted with bottles during confrontations with groups including right-wing activists.

    Bit different from last weeks headline.

    How many will be injured, more or less than the 30 in the peaceful protests last time.
    I’m not sure that particular type of point scoring is helpful.
    I'm just very disappointed at the whole situation tbh. The failure to stop the mob last time has brought a new mob out onto the streets of my city. They have been given licence to be a mob by the government and police's failure to break up the last one. In the same way I wanted the last mob to be broken up and charged with whatever possible, I want this one to be charged with whatever possible. Unfortunately we're in a situation where the first mob wasn't charged or broken up so there is no way they can break up and charge the second one.

    For the first time I'm worried about the future of this country, our failure to confront last week's reactionaries will have wide ranging repercussions for a long time to come.
    Its similar to the 2011 - it seems plod has to keep learning the same lesson.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,475
    edited June 2020

    Kind of on topic for the day's events but more because it is just a fascinating story.

    The history behind one of the few exchanges of fire in anger on British soil in WW2.

    https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

    That's really fascinating! Quite close to where I currently live and I'd never heard of that story. Good to know a bit more local history and it's quite an interesting difference between the Yanks and us.
    The Zoot Suit Riots are an interesting similar but different thing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoot_Suit_Riots
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,548
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    Aged like milk.


  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Andy_JS said:
    6996 million to go. :D
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    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,743
    Kudos to any behavioural scientist who predicted Lockdown would fall apart after 10 weeks.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2020

    Kudos to any behavioural scientist who predicted Lockdown would fall apart after 10 weeks.

    Nah its all Big Doms fault....or something like that.

    We will ignore the media amplify the nonsense message that racism is currently a more dangerous virus than covid, which is far more harmful public health message to BAME communities than if Big Dom went for a whizz on the M1.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,056

    Kudos to any behavioural scientist who predicted Lockdown would fall apart after 10 weeks.

    Lockdown ended weeks ago - what we still have is a partial economic shutdown.
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2020
    DougSeal said:

    Aged like milk.


    What, the part where I told you that if idiotic vandals on the left set a precedent for political violence then idiotic vandals on the right would emulate it?

    I'd say that aged pretty well.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Con Maj drifting. Nearing crossover?

    Result next UK GE - best prices

    No Overall Majority 11/8
    Conservative Majority 2/1
    Labour Majority 9/4
    Lib Dem Majority 33/1
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,324

    Kudos to any behavioural scientist who predicted Lockdown would fall apart after 10 weeks.

    Nah its all Big Doms fault....or something like that.

    We will ignore the media amplify the nonsense message that racism is currently a more dangerous virus than covid, which is far more harmful public health message to BAME communities than if Big Dom went for a whizz on the M1.
    What you overlook is that in order to excuse DC's grand tour, people were told to use their common sense and adapt the official guidelines to their own circumstances. Post Cummings, this is what has happened.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,021
    CatMan said:
    'Marxist statue defacing will play badly for Starmer'
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,021

    DougSeal said:

    Aged like milk.


    What, the part where I told you that if idiotic vandals on the left set a precedent for political violence then idiotic vandals on the right would emulate it?

    I'd say that aged pretty well.
    I see the standard 'individuals must take responsibility for their own actions' right wing mantra has been suspended for the duration of (literal) hostilities.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    But who will think of the STATUES in all this? That’s the question on everyone’s lips.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1271838917034213384
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502
    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:

    MaxPB said:

    BBC Headline - Police are pelted with bottles during confrontations with groups including right-wing activists.

    Bit different from last weeks headline.

    How many will be injured, more or less than the 30 in the peaceful protests last time.
    I’m not sure that particular type of point scoring is helpful.
    I'm just very disappointed at the whole situation tbh. The failure to stop the mob last time has brought a new mob out onto the streets of my city. They have been given licence to be a mob by the government and police's failure to break up the last one. In the same way I wanted the last mob to be broken up and charged with whatever possible, I want this one to be charged with whatever possible. Unfortunately we're in a situation where the first mob wasn't charged or broken up so there is no way they can break up and charge the second one.

    For the first time I'm worried about the future of this country, our failure to confront last week's reactionaries will have wide ranging repercussions for a long time to come.
    I think that's perhaps an overreaction. And I suspect that the current nonsense will peter out fairly soon (which is why I approve of the temporary removal or covering of a handful of statues). We'll see.

    I'd far rather the police err slightly on the side of tolerance than overreaction in the current circumstances. We've seen what escalation can lead to in the US.
    My impression of the London policing is that they've done a very difficult job pretty well over the last week or so, and I applaud them for it.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:

    MaxPB said:

    BBC Headline - Police are pelted with bottles during confrontations with groups including right-wing activists.

    Bit different from last weeks headline.

    How many will be injured, more or less than the 30 in the peaceful protests last time.
    I’m not sure that particular type of point scoring is helpful.
    I'm just very disappointed at the whole situation tbh. The failure to stop the mob last time has brought a new mob out onto the streets of my city. They have been given licence to be a mob by the government and police's failure to break up the last one. In the same way I wanted the last mob to be broken up and charged with whatever possible, I want this one to be charged with whatever possible. Unfortunately we're in a situation where the first mob wasn't charged or broken up so there is no way they can break up and charge the second one.

    For the first time I'm worried about the future of this country, our failure to confront last week's reactionaries will have wide ranging repercussions for a long time to come.
    I think that's perhaps an overreaction. And I suspect that the current nonsense will peter out fairly soon (which is why I approve of the temporary removal or covering of a handful of statues). We'll see.

    I'd far rather the police err slightly on the side of tolerance than overreaction in the current circumstances. We've seen what escalation can lead to in the US.
    My impression of the London policing is that they've done a very difficult job pretty well over the last week or so, and I applaud them for it.
    They'll all get bored pretty quickly, I reckon.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,548
    Scott_xP said:
    Johnson's problem is that he's a faux populist. Most of the time that works quite well for him, but at the moment it's having the effect of satisfying almost no-one.
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    DougSeal said:

    Aged like milk.


    What, the part where I told you that if idiotic vandals on the left set a precedent for political violence then idiotic vandals on the right would emulate it?

    I'd say that aged pretty well.
    I see the standard 'individuals must take responsibility for their own actions' right wing mantra has been suspended for the duration of (literal) hostilities.
    The left has spent the last couple of weeks telling the world that you can do whatever vandalism and rioting you like if your feelings are hurt and - surprise, surprise - it seems some people were listening.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502
    This is the only form of direct action I can completely support:

    https://twitter.com/EdClowes/status/1271792544842756097
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,021
    Literal blackshorts.
    Presumably some BLM bloke doing this last week gave him the idea.

    https://twitter.com/JazBlunder/status/1271842229515104265?s=20
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,002
    DougSeal said:
    Just to note, it's OK to make fun of the appearance of the white working-class (while criticising a right-wing demo), but probably not OK to make fun of the appearance of other racial-class groups (e.g. while criticising recent left-wing demos). So it's easy to see how narratives of WWC alienation are justified.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Kudos to any behavioural scientist who predicted Lockdown would fall apart after 10 weeks.

    Lockdown ended weeks ago - what we still have is a partial economic shutdown.
    I'm told NOT to expect to be in office this YEAR
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133

    DougSeal said:

    Aged like milk.


    What, the part where I told you that if idiotic vandals on the left set a precedent for political violence then idiotic vandals on the right would emulate it?

    I'd say that aged pretty well.
    I see the standard 'individuals must take responsibility for their own actions' right wing mantra has been suspended for the duration of (literal) hostilities.
    The left has spent the last couple of weeks telling the world that you can do whatever vandalism and rioting you like if your feelings are hurt and - surprise, surprise - it seems some people were listening.
    While your fellow travellers on the right bravely attack policemen from behind. Tell me, Mr Blue, these fine fellows below share your political philosophy, exactly what are the people below demonstrating for? Are they for or against the police? I can’t tell.

    https://twitter.com/VinnieoDowd/status/1271809857507770376
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,661
    Nigelb said:

    This is the only form of direct action I can completely support:

    https://twitter.com/EdClowes/status/1271792544842756097

    And he's not even wearing gloves. Brave man.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502

    One positive thought on superspreaders and risk:

    - We know that some people spread the virus far more than others. R is famously an average; the superspreaders drive it up. It's not that mysterious as to why it should be so; there are a number of important variables:

    1 - Some people have wider circles of friends and acquaintances and are in closer contact with more people more often. The more people you are in contact with per day, the more opportunities for infection.
    2 - The presymptomatic (but infectious) period varies between a day or two and up to a fortnight (averaging around 4-5 days). The longer the presymptomatic period, the more opportunities for infection
    3 - The personal space preferred by different people varies (some are huggier and kissier; some are more standoffish). The closer you get, the more chance of infection.
    4 - There may be other factors, such as a higher viral load, that can act to make you more infectious.

    Anyone for whom those variables are all over to the high side will likely be a superspreader. It's all a factor of statistics and luck, and these people are the ones who unknowingly stack the deck in favour of the virus.

    Of those, variables 1 and 3, as well as making you more likely to spread the disease, make you more likely to get the disease.

    There's a fifth variable as well: carelessness. Some months ago, my eldest daughter's long-term boyfriend split up with her. We were sad about this; he'd been a part of the household for years.

    Early in the pandemic, we learned he'd contracted covid-19. It flattened him for weeks, and he's had a prolonged issue with lung capacity ever since (he's a healthy, fit 26-year-old).

    We all said to ourselves when we learned he'd had it: if anyone was going to get it, he would. He's famously careless and blase about many things and he'd probably caught it due to not taking care over social distancing.

    So - those who are prone to be superspreaders, and those who are the most careless (and especially those who are both careless and prone to be superspreaders) are most likely to catch it early.

    If the careless and the superspreaders (and the careless superspreaders) were the ones most likely to contract it before and during lockdown (push the chances of catching it down and these are the most likely by far to get it), then their ability to spread it was very limited while they had the window. In short, the residual R number may (and I stress the "may") be now be significantly lower - if the superspreaders are concentrated in the 5%, or 10%, or 15% or however many have already had it.

    I like the idea, but I'm sceptical about how significant that might be, particularly given the relatively low percentage of the population who seem to have had the virus.
    Superspreaders seem to require the right environment (conferences; nightclubs; call centres; restaurants; choirs etc) and/or the ability to move around a lot between groups of people. I don't think there's anything particularly special about the individuals concerned, other than that they probably fall in the percentage of those with the virus who shed a fairly large amount of it.
    Current policies, during and after lockdown, are for the time being denying them the venues for spreading it.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212
    malcolmg said:

    Last 7 days COVID deaths (confirmed with a test)

    Scot: 33 (6/million)
    England: 1122 (20/million)

    Death rate in England 3.5x higher in last week than Scot. Scottish Government
    decision to take a cautious approach for last month has clearly now been vindicated.

    Surely completely the reverse Malcolm. What it shows is that contrary to Nicola's claims the R rate in Scotland was much lower than in England and we should have been opening up much faster. These figures make the Scottish government's position on schools and shops look even more absurd than it will on Monday.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    EPG said:

    DougSeal said:
    Just to note, it's OK to make fun of the appearance of the white working-class (while criticising a right-wing demo), but probably not OK to make fun of the appearance of other racial-class groups (e.g. while criticising recent left-wing demos). So it's easy to see how narratives of WWC alienation are justified.
    It’s fine to make fun of fascists. I’m old fashioned that way.
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2020
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Aged like milk.


    What, the part where I told you that if idiotic vandals on the left set a precedent for political violence then idiotic vandals on the right would emulate it?

    I'd say that aged pretty well.
    I see the standard 'individuals must take responsibility for their own actions' right wing mantra has been suspended for the duration of (literal) hostilities.
    The left has spent the last couple of weeks telling the world that you can do whatever vandalism and rioting you like if your feelings are hurt and - surprise, surprise - it seems some people were listening.
    While your fellow travellers on the right bravely attack policemen from behind. Tell me, Mr Blue, these fine fellows below share your political philosophy, exactly what are the people below demonstrating for? Are they for or against the police? I can’t tell.

    https://twitter.com/VinnieoDowd/status/1271809857507770376
    I have no idea. Hopefully any crimes committed on this march will be harshly punished by the law, just as those committed by your fellow travellers should have been.

    Unlike you, I don't attempt to minimize or excuse obvious criminal behaviour by protesters. If they break the law, then they should have the book thrown at them.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502

    DougSeal said:

    Aged like milk.


    What, the part where I told you that if idiotic vandals on the left set a precedent for political violence then idiotic vandals on the right would emulate it?

    I'd say that aged pretty well.
    I see the standard 'individuals must take responsibility for their own actions' right wing mantra has been suspended for the duration of (literal) hostilities.
    The left has spent the last couple of weeks telling the world that you can do whatever vandalism and rioting you like if your feelings are hurt and - surprise, surprise - it seems some people were listening.
    "The left has..."
    Risible.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914

    MikeL said:

    Total UK:

    Positive tests 1,425
    Deaths 181

    Positive tests number so so I would say - lower than same day last week (1,557) but above yesterday's 7 day rolling average (1,326).

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public#number-of-cases-and-deaths

    The list of Saturday announcements are:

    Positive tests: 1425, 1557, 2445, 2959, 3451, 3896, 4806
    Deaths: 181, 204, 226, 282, 468, 346*, 621

    * Reduced by Friday 08/05 being a bank holiday.

    What looks pretty clear is that the Dominic Cummings story did not lead to an increase in infection.
    Key thing to look at is the ratio from one week to the next. That's broadly the 'r'.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,661
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Last 7 days COVID deaths (confirmed with a test)

    Scot: 33 (6/million)
    England: 1122 (20/million)

    Death rate in England 3.5x higher in last week than Scot. Scottish Government
    decision to take a cautious approach for last month has clearly now been vindicated.

    Surely completely the reverse Malcolm. What it shows is that contrary to Nicola's claims the R rate in Scotland was much lower than in England and we should have been opening up much faster. These figures make the Scottish government's position on schools and shops look even more absurd than it will on Monday.
    You may recall how very recently the PBTories were proclaiming that R was above unity in Scotland. It's only very recently that this low figure has appeared - in the last day or two. I would argue on the contrary that it's well worth lovking down a bit longer to suppress the virus completely in many areas - and close the borders to all but essential travel. What is being done down south is simply to allow the virus to flare up again with appalling consequences.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Johnson's problem is that he's a faux populist. Most of the time that works quite well for him, but at the moment it's having the effect of satisfying almost no-one.
    I think it's more like Blair infamously said about Iraq: "I keep telling them that it's worse than that. I believe in it."

    The populist thing to do would be easy here. Do what industry and his MPs are all asking and loosen the 2m rule. That would be easy.

    But I think after his own near death experience he is genuinely trying to contain this and follow the science. So if he doesn't think it's safe he's not doing the populist thing. For once.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,914

    If you look at the photos of the far right protests in the press you see things you don;t normally see at far right protests.

    Yes there are the usual loudmouth shaven headed tattooed idiots, but there are also decorated veterans and green berets that look like they might be Royal Marines....???

    Are these people genuine former Royal Marines and other associated war heroes, or are they similar to another national hero who owns his own Purple Heart but never made it to Vietnam on account of his heel spurs?
    A Facebook friend of mine who was a Royal Marine posted this

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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,239
    "very fine people on both sides" I see.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,475

    Kudos to any behavioural scientist who predicted Lockdown would fall apart after 10 weeks.

    Interesting parallel. Italian PM over the coals for delaying lockdown.

    https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/12/coronavirus-italy-prosecutors-question-pm-giuseppe-conte-over-lockdown-delay
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Aged like milk.


    What, the part where I told you that if idiotic vandals on the left set a precedent for political violence then idiotic vandals on the right would emulate it?

    I'd say that aged pretty well.
    I see the standard 'individuals must take responsibility for their own actions' right wing mantra has been suspended for the duration of (literal) hostilities.
    The left has spent the last couple of weeks telling the world that you can do whatever vandalism and rioting you like if your feelings are hurt and - surprise, surprise - it seems some people were listening.
    While your fellow travellers on the right bravely attack policemen from behind. Tell me, Mr Blue, these fine fellows below share your political philosophy, exactly what are the people below demonstrating for? Are they for or against the police? I can’t tell.

    https://twitter.com/VinnieoDowd/status/1271809857507770376
    Strange that I don't recall you making this running commentary whilst Antifa thugs were injuring 60 police officers and committing criminal damage last week in a 'largely peaceful' demonstration.

    These thugs attacking police is sickening and they should be hunted down and prosecuted. But your hypocrisy is pretty sickening as well.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    edited June 2020

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Aged like milk.


    What, the part where I told you that if idiotic vandals on the left set a precedent for political violence then idiotic vandals on the right would emulate it?

    I'd say that aged pretty well.
    I see the standard 'individuals must take responsibility for their own actions' right wing mantra has been suspended for the duration of (literal) hostilities.
    The left has spent the last couple of weeks telling the world that you can do whatever vandalism and rioting you like if your feelings are hurt and - surprise, surprise - it seems some people were listening.
    While your fellow travellers on the right bravely attack policemen from behind. Tell me, Mr Blue, these fine fellows below share your political philosophy, exactly what are the people below demonstrating for? Are they for or against the police? I can’t tell.

    https://twitter.com/VinnieoDowd/status/1271809857507770376
    I have no idea. Hopefully any crimes committed on this march will be harshly punished by the law, just as those committed by your fellow travellers should have been.
    Shameful that I should be a fellow traveller with people who think black people should be treated as well as white people are in this country. Shameful that I should be a fellow traveller with such people. I’m sure you’re proud to be associated with these people who are bravely attacking cops...for a reason you can’t even articulate.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,272
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:

    MaxPB said:

    BBC Headline - Police are pelted with bottles during confrontations with groups including right-wing activists.

    Bit different from last weeks headline.

    How many will be injured, more or less than the 30 in the peaceful protests last time.
    I’m not sure that particular type of point scoring is helpful.
    I'm just very disappointed at the whole situation tbh. The failure to stop the mob last time has brought a new mob out onto the streets of my city. They have been given licence to be a mob by the government and police's failure to break up the last one. In the same way I wanted the last mob to be broken up and charged with whatever possible, I want this one to be charged with whatever possible. Unfortunately we're in a situation where the first mob wasn't charged or broken up so there is no way they can break up and charge the second one.

    For the first time I'm worried about the future of this country, our failure to confront last week's reactionaries will have wide ranging repercussions for a long time to come.
    I think that's perhaps an overreaction. And I suspect that the current nonsense will peter out fairly soon (which is why I approve of the temporary removal or covering of a handful of statues). We'll see.

    I'd far rather the police err slightly on the side of tolerance than overreaction in the current circumstances. We've seen what escalation can lead to in the US.
    My impression of the London policing is that they've done a very difficult job pretty well over the last week or so, and I applaud them for it.
    The Sky reporter was expressing frustration that the police were not allowing them near the trouble. Also it seems their helicopter stopped feeding pictures

    I have to say that if the police are going to prevent the filming of disturbances I think it is a good thing as it takes away the oxygen of publicity

    Also the 5.00pm dispersal notice is completely justified

    It is time Boris, Patel, Khan and the Commissioner got together and enforced covid requirements and put a stop to this happening every weekend
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    Floater said:

    Kudos to any behavioural scientist who predicted Lockdown would fall apart after 10 weeks.

    Lockdown ended weeks ago - what we still have is a partial economic shutdown.
    I'm told NOT to expect to be in office this YEAR
    My firm’s thinking October.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,914
    Nigelb said:

    If you look at the photos of the far right protests in the press you see things you don;t normally see at far right protests.

    Yes there are the usual loudmouth shaven headed tattooed idiots, but there are also decorated veterans and green berets that look like they might be Royal Marines....???

    That is because there are a number of separate protests going on at the same time. The veterans had organised a march and protest which was supposed to go to the Cenotaph. When they got there the police then moved them on down to Parliament Square. As always (and just as with the BLM marches) it is not possible to consider them as single events and claim everyone has the same aims or acts in the same way.
    Sounds about right.
    I recommend (the Telegraph’s) Ed Clowes’ twitter feed, which gives a good, and slightly bemused, account of what’s going on.
    https://twitter.com/EdClowes/status/1271787142377865220
    Artificial Intelligence lives matter? Now that is taking the piss
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502
    Interesting candidate for the next WTO leader;

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/13/nigerias-wto-candidate-looks-to-bridge-the-us-china-schism-316311
    ...Iweala acknowledged there was a gulf to address between what richer and poorer developing nations were getting out of the globalized trading system.

    “The developed country members feel they have borne the burden of liberalization and maybe the advanced developing countries should bear more. The least developed countries feel they could benefit more from the system,” she said.

    More broadly, she argued that the WTO had failed to keep up with the times. “The WTO needs to be brought up to the 21st century. Some of the rules are outdated and they don't reflect the significant developments in the global economy. Issues such as the digital economy, competition policy, investment, climate change and environment, they all need to be addressed.”

    She stressed that her experience from two stints as Nigeria’s finance minister had given her the political skills to broker big trade-offs in Geneva. She also argued her background as a development economist convinced her of the value of trade — as opposed to aid — as a way of lifting countries out of poverty...
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,661
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    If you look at the photos of the far right protests in the press you see things you don;t normally see at far right protests.

    Yes there are the usual loudmouth shaven headed tattooed idiots, but there are also decorated veterans and green berets that look like they might be Royal Marines....???

    That is because there are a number of separate protests going on at the same time. The veterans had organised a march and protest which was supposed to go to the Cenotaph. When they got there the police then moved them on down to Parliament Square. As always (and just as with the BLM marches) it is not possible to consider them as single events and claim everyone has the same aims or acts in the same way.
    Sounds about right.
    I recommend (the Telegraph’s) Ed Clowes’ twitter feed, which gives a good, and slightly bemused, account of what’s going on.
    https://twitter.com/EdClowes/status/1271787142377865220
    Artificial Intelligence lives matter? Now that is taking the piss
    Not if you are a fan of Iain M. Banks's novels, where it often features as the central theme. As in The Algebraist.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,854
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Last 7 days COVID deaths (confirmed with a test)

    Scot: 33 (6/million)
    England: 1122 (20/million)

    Death rate in England 3.5x higher in last week than Scot. Scottish Government
    decision to take a cautious approach for last month has clearly now been vindicated.

    Surely completely the reverse Malcolm. What it shows is that contrary to Nicola's claims the R rate in Scotland was much lower than in England and we should have been opening up much faster. These figures make the Scottish government's position on schools and shops look even more absurd than it will on Monday.
    David , pointless opening schools now , holidays are in 2 weeks. They should be thinking how to get economy going , hear lots of people getting told jobs are gone.
    Neighbour volunteered to go , his lot were doing 350 and younger fellow other side , GE are looking at 400 at airport. Surely be a lot not going back to work.
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