politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Submission or No Deal: where do the Brexit talks end up this y
Comments
-
Thanks for the tip! I’m bigger on history than current religious practice I’m afraid. Will email the churchwarden, if Brook has one...MattW said:
Churchwardens, surely?DougSeal said:
I always thought lockdown would collapse eventually as we moved into the hot days of Summer. I just didn’t anticipate that it would do so quite like this.FrancisUrquhart said:
Is there still a global pandemic going on? Hard to tell these days.DougSeal said:“Protecting statutes” is the new euphemism for “looking for a ruck” I see
twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1271781928572772355
Must go. I believe my current pet project, photographing surviving church pre-Reformation art in Kent, (the typical hobby of a “cultural vandal” like me I know) can restart next week so I have some country vicars to email. May throw in some random threats of “leftist” revolutionary violence too, but maybe not. Then again, with a name like that, the Rev Ravi Holy of Wye and Brook might appreciate it.
So PB has a churchcrawler :-) .0 -
But they meant well, as they shot people in the back of the head and kicked them into a ditch.tlg86 said:
I’m shocked that you reach this conclusion.kinabalu said:
Pretty much agree. But for me the brutish, overtly racist nastiness of the far right means they clinch the biscuit.Black_Rook said:
The extreme right and the extreme left are clearly two sides of the same rotten coin, but what's going on with the demos is a little more complicated.kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
The big BLM protests appear to consist largely of concerned citizens who are more interested in anti-racism than in the anti-
capitalist baggage that some in the movement are also carrying. They then attract the usual fringe of hard left shit-stirrers out to make trouble.
The smaller hard right counter-demos appear to consist entirely of nutters.
The consequence of the behaviour of one mob going unchecked is that, of course, the other feels justified and emboldened.
No doubt you also think the hammer and sickle is not as bad as a swastika.
The feels are the important bit.2 -
Completely wrong as usual.FF43 said:
It's not that. It's because Remainers (and I have been guilty of that too) don't realise Brexiteers are totally uninterested in limiting the damage. Because Brexiteers don't think there is any damage to limit. Leavers have never had a plan for Brexit, not in 2016, not now, when they are supposedly implementing the wretched thing. But Leavers do hold beliefs, the key one being that Brexit is a Good Thing. If it's a Good Thing obviously you want it to be the quickest, hardest break possible.Mortimer said:
I still find the golden rule of Brexit holds true.Sandpit said:
It’s now about the only possible piece of legislation guaranteed to wipe out the government’s majority overnight, and the government are well aware of that.Mortimer said:
I think he probabaly knows that even with a majority of 80, there are insufficient votes on the back benches for a treaty that ties us to taking EU rules forever.kinabalu said:
I think the need to avoid WTO trumps that. Ending FM is imo the one thing that Johnson must demonstrate occurs on 1st Jan 2021. The rest he can get away with fudging for now. And indeed forever, in my view, but certainly for now.Mortimer said:
I think you're underestimating the will to avoid any form of rule-taking from the EU on pretty much anything except exports into the EU. Not only in No 10, but in the Tory party and country at large.kinabalu said:"That almost certainly means there won’t be a deal."
I hold the opposite view.
Two things can be ruled out. (i) An extension. (ii) An overnight move from frictionless trade to WTO. The first being politically impossible (for Johnson) and the second being utter lunacy on every level and from every perspective.
Therefore there almost certainly WILL be a deal. And given the negotiating realities it will be largely on the EU's terms. So in the parlance of the Header, "Submission or No Deal" - the answer is Submission.
But Johnson (as he did with the Withdrawal Agreement) will brand it otherwise. Submission will once again become triumph. I predict the phrase "Flexible Future Divergence" - or perhaps "Dynamic Democratic Alignment" - will be much heard. I know! But that's what we have come to with all this "leaving the EU" nonsense.
Brexit. A great big sack of stupid, quite frankly. Total waste of time. Always was.
The other would have been a deadline extension, but thankfully that has now passed.
Whatever reassures the Remain side (Gina Miller case, clever motions in the HoC, supreme court decision, there is bound to be an extension because Covid) always ends up hurting their cause.
Several people have laughed at it over the years, but it holds pretty true....
Remainers who know Brexit is a damaging thing for a host of specific and empirical reasons, even if we have to go through with it, look to limit that damage, unaware that Leavers have no interest in doing the same.0 -
A water canon with some disinfectant soap in the mix would be quite useful around now.BannedinnParis said:
fire up the well quite klaxon.isam said:
Lock up a load of the far right for three months, then let them loose in London on the piss and the gear on a hot Summer Saturday after spending the last week watch militant lefties smash up olde English statues on tv... what could go wrong?Floater said:
I think thats fair commentBlack_Rook said:
The extreme right and the extreme left are clearly two sides of the same rotten coin, but what's going on with the demos is a little more complicated.kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
The big BLM protests appear to consist largely of concerned citizens who are more interested in anti-racism than in the anti-capitalist baggage that some in the movement are also carrying. They then attract the usual fringe of hard left shit-stirrers out to make trouble.
The smaller hard right counter-demos appear to consist entirely of nutters.
The consequence of the behaviour of one mob going unchecked is that, of course, the other feels justified and emboldened.
that is, so long as it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings
One thing the ultra left and the ultra right share is BO.
If only a London Mayor had bought one.2 -
Has any credible witness actually come up with a way in which Cummings could have actually passed the virus to a person who wasn't in his car? As far as I can tell, he posed no public health risk.FrancisUrquhart said:
I hope so too. All the lockdown rule breaking going on over the past few weeks is not on, especially after my folks have been locked away for 3 months. But the media has given it is a free pass, even Piers Moron, the ultimate lockdown hardliner.SouthamObserver said:
The Cenotaph and the Churchill statue represent everything these pissed-up fascists hate. I am pleased both have been protected. I very much hope we get statements from the PM and the Home Secretary condemning the violence and the flagrant violation of the lockdown rules.FrancisUrquhart said:
I have a feeling the BBC won't be ignoring any violence and describing them as peaceful if a load of police officers get hurt.SouthamObserver said:Disturbing pictures from the centre of London today. Thankfully, the Churchill statue and the Cenotaph have been protected. God knows what these nazi-saluting drunks would have dione to them otherwise.
We just about got rid of these dickheads turning up in high streets and now equal dickheads vandalising war memorials will lead to weeks of this crap.
IMO, they are far greater public health risk than whatever Big Dom did in Durham.
These protestors breaking lockdown are in a whole different world of areseholedom.4 -
Clearly representing his three loves of his life,Theuniondivvie said:Meanwhile in the Athens of the North.
https://twitter.com/jackfostr/status/1271763055173603329?s=20
Kilmarnock
Kirk
and Kippers0 -
I find dandruff to be unique to the right though. Particularly, on the occasions I have been able to observe parades in NI, Orangemen for some reason. Maybe it’s the dark suits/shirts that make it show up.Malmesbury said:
A water canon with some disinfectant soap in the mix would be quite useful around now.BannedinnParis said:
fire up the well quite klaxon.isam said:
Lock up a load of the far right for three months, then let them loose in London on the piss and the gear on a hot Summer Saturday after spending the last week watch militant lefties smash up olde English statues on tv... what could go wrong?Floater said:
I think thats fair commentBlack_Rook said:
The extreme right and the extreme left are clearly two sides of the same rotten coin, but what's going on with the demos is a little more complicated.kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
The big BLM protests appear to consist largely of concerned citizens who are more interested in anti-racism than in the anti-capitalist baggage that some in the movement are also carrying. They then attract the usual fringe of hard left shit-stirrers out to make trouble.
The smaller hard right counter-demos appear to consist entirely of nutters.
The consequence of the behaviour of one mob going unchecked is that, of course, the other feels justified and emboldened.
that is, so long as it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings
One thing the ultra left and the ultra right share is BO.
If only a London Mayor had bought one.0 -
Mr. Eadric, there's now a review of statues in Leeds underway.0
-
It certainly can't be Kirkcaldy's footie club, that's for sure.Richard_Tyndall said:
Clearly representing his three loves of his life,Theuniondivvie said:Meanwhile in the Athens of the North.
https://twitter.com/jackfostr/status/1271763055173603329?s=20
Kilmarnock
Kirk
and Kippers1 -
Well I'm certainly agreeing on the 100%. Antifa being half as bad as the far right sounds a bit high to me. But I would need to mix with a bunch of them to verify that and I never have. Course, it depends on what your threshold is for cnut in the antifa context. Walker. Galloway. Wilkinson. This is my idea of a trio of cnuts on "our side" as it were. But Owen Jones, who I like and think has integrity and decent values, if he is a "cnut" in your eyes it means we probably have an irreconcilable definition delta.IshmaelZ said:
Speaking as someone you'd probably consider to be on the right, I'd say say that 100% of the far right were complete cnts and probably about 40-50% of antifa (leaving aside, for these purposes, the question whether the non-cnt balance of antifa are complete wankers).kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
hth.0 -
You got that close to the Orangies? Good God man - that deserves some kind of medal or compensation.DougSeal said:
I find dandruff to be unique to the right though. Particularly, on the occasions I have been able to observe parades in NI, Orangemen for some reason. Maybe it’s the dark suits/shirts that make it show up.Malmesbury said:
A water canon with some disinfectant soap in the mix would be quite useful around now.BannedinnParis said:
fire up the well quite klaxon.isam said:
Lock up a load of the far right for three months, then let them loose in London on the piss and the gear on a hot Summer Saturday after spending the last week watch militant lefties smash up olde English statues on tv... what could go wrong?Floater said:
I think thats fair commentBlack_Rook said:
The extreme right and the extreme left are clearly two sides of the same rotten coin, but what's going on with the demos is a little more complicated.kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
The big BLM protests appear to consist largely of concerned citizens who are more interested in anti-racism than in the anti-capitalist baggage that some in the movement are also carrying. They then attract the usual fringe of hard left shit-stirrers out to make trouble.
The smaller hard right counter-demos appear to consist entirely of nutters.
The consequence of the behaviour of one mob going unchecked is that, of course, the other feels justified and emboldened.
that is, so long as it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings
One thing the ultra left and the ultra right share is BO.
If only a London Mayor had bought one.
The shinners were always very smelly - the ones in the balaclava's hadn't ever washed them, or the sweaters with the shiny elbow patches. Worried about shrinkage in the wash, maybe.0 -
Not googling so is it him? Is that a bit of Waters?isam said:
"One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist" - said a bitter, miserable junkie with the usual extreme left views on what's Kosherkinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
0 -
I wonder what else 2020 is going to offer us for entertainment. This is fucking brilliant. All we need now is life on Mars and the queen megging it for the full nap hand1
-
Reminds me of the Euros in France...when do the Russian MMA fighters turn up and give everybody a kicking?eadric said:
No, it's Lads versus AntiFa in Trafalgar Sq right now, on live TV. The cops got there just in time to prevent major beatingsCarnyx said:
Bit late for that - it's now Polis vs Footie Firms, at least in the Parliament Stadium.eadric said:Why don't the police just get out of the way and let the football hooligans and the Britain-haters have a proper ding-dong, to entertain the nation?
0 -
The deadpool never forgets. I will decapitate a statue with detcord that its head may serve as the trophy.kinabalu said:
The latter means 'deadpool' triumph for me, remember.Dura_Ace said:I wonder what else 2020 is going to offer us for entertainment. This is fucking brilliant. All we need now is life on Mars and the queen megging it for the full nap hand
1 -
Strange watching how things have changed. For my sins I used to get involved in a fair few anti-fascist demos in the early to mid 80s. This was before they all got organised under the AFA. We were mostly disrupting and breaking up NF/BNP type marches in London. There were always running fights through the streets but the police policy was to just let them happen until it looked like someone was going to get seriously injured. Usually when they were on the ground getting a kicking. Then they would wade in, beat off the attackers and arrest the 'victim' on the ground. Of course none of us were innocent victims so we were all fair game. Then they would carry them off to an ambulance and send them off to hospital. It was a remarkably effective, if totally unauthorised, way of policing the violence.2
-
I hate the Manichaeanism of the 21st Century perhaps more than any other aspect of this benighted time. Owen Jones’s Guardian pieces are terrible but “Chavs” is a genuinely important book. It is possible to be critical of individual pieces of work without condemning the whole person.kinabalu said:
Well I'm certainly agreeing on the 100%. Antifa being half as bad as the far right sounds a bit high to me. But I would need to mix with a bunch of them to verify that and I never have. Course, it depends on what your threshold is for cnut in the antifa context. Walker. Galloway. Wilkinson. This is my idea of a trio of cnuts on "our side" as it were. But Owen Jones, who I like and think has integrity and decent values, if he is a "cnut" in your eyes it means we probably have an irreconcilable definition delta.IshmaelZ said:
Speaking as someone you'd probably consider to be on the right, I'd say say that 100% of the far right were complete cnts and probably about 40-50% of antifa (leaving aside, for these purposes, the question whether the non-cnt balance of antifa are complete wankers).kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
hth.0 -
In Scotland we've now perfected the air shot defence. Huns, SDLers and Loyalists work themselves up to a red faced ferment, take a swing and there's nothing there. These lads might have to deface a few statues themselves to keep the righteous indignation going.
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271788852328509445?s=20
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271790759944093704?s=201 -
In fairness it'c chilly and dreich under a North Sea haar in the east, and the met radar says it's been pishing on and off in Glasgow.Theuniondivvie said:In Scotland we've now perfected the air shot defence. Huns, SDLers and Loyalists work themselves up to a red faced ferment, take a swing and there's nothing there. These lads might have to deface a few statues themselves to keep the righteous indignation going.
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271788852328509445?s=20
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271790759944093704?s=20
Isn't that the CCTV that used to go on the blink whenever there was a pro-indy demo in the Square, at least when Slab were in charge there?0 -
I spent some time visiting a friend in Belfast in the long hot summer of 1995. I was surprised at how many parades there were and how many just happened without anyone batting an eyelid, even during that (IIRC) temporary cessation of the troubles. But the dandruff was obvious from yards away. Huge fecking flakes. The heat didn’t help I suppose.Malmesbury said:
You got that close to the Orangies? Good God man - that deserves some kind of medal or compensation.DougSeal said:
I find dandruff to be unique to the right though. Particularly, on the occasions I have been able to observe parades in NI, Orangemen for some reason. Maybe it’s the dark suits/shirts that make it show up.Malmesbury said:
A water canon with some disinfectant soap in the mix would be quite useful around now.BannedinnParis said:
fire up the well quite klaxon.isam said:
Lock up a load of the far right for three months, then let them loose in London on the piss and the gear on a hot Summer Saturday after spending the last week watch militant lefties smash up olde English statues on tv... what could go wrong?Floater said:
I think thats fair commentBlack_Rook said:
The extreme right and the extreme left are clearly two sides of the same rotten coin, but what's going on with the demos is a little more complicated.kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
The big BLM protests appear to consist largely of concerned citizens who are more interested in anti-racism than in the anti-capitalist baggage that some in the movement are also carrying. They then attract the usual fringe of hard left shit-stirrers out to make trouble.
The smaller hard right counter-demos appear to consist entirely of nutters.
The consequence of the behaviour of one mob going unchecked is that, of course, the other feels justified and emboldened.
that is, so long as it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings
One thing the ultra left and the ultra right share is BO.
If only a London Mayor had bought one.
The shinners were always very smelly - the ones in the balaclava's hadn't ever washed them, or the sweaters with the shiny elbow patches. Worried about shrinkage in the wash, maybe.0 -
Move over Darren Grimes, there's a new gun for hire in town.
https://twitter.com/Barcajim3/status/1271720012655529984?s=200 -
I think when we look back it won't be that, it will be the mostly white mob pulling down a statue. The optics of a mob given freedom by the police to do so, like something from overthrow of Iraq then sparked open season on any statue you don't like, which has now led to the escalation.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
Its given a rally call for the far right racist knuckle draggers to mobilise around.0 -
In his dreams!kinabalu said:
Not googling so is it him? Is that a bit of Waters?isam said:
"One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist" - said a bitter, miserable junkie with the usual extreme left views on what's Kosherkinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
0 -
Better hope for a total wash out for the summer, otherwise I can see every weekend being like this.0
-
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.0 -
Wasn't last week. Are you saying lefty streetfighters have more fortitude than today's Der Stalhelm wannabes?eadric said:
Are you surprised they didn't turn out, look at the typically shite Scottish weather.Theuniondivvie said:In Scotland we've now perfected the air shot defence. Huns, SDLers and Loyalists work themselves up to a red faced ferment, take a swing and there's nothing there. These lads might have to deface a few statues themselves to keep the righteous indignation going.
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271788852328509445?s=20
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271790759944093704?s=20
London is lovely and sunny and hot0 -
Mr. Urquhart, reminiscent, as I said previously, of 2011 when the police bigwigs had their men do nothing and then the looting got even more out of control.0
-
I remember the night of the Good Friday agreement, it was a lovely, warm night...DougSeal said:
I spent some time visiting a friend in Belfast in the long hot summer of 1995. I was surprised at how many parades there were and how many just happened without anyone batting an eyelid, even during that (IIRC) temporary cessation of the troubles. But the dandruff was obvious from yards away. Huge fecking flakes. The heat didn’t help I suppose.Malmesbury said:
You got that close to the Orangies? Good God man - that deserves some kind of medal or compensation.DougSeal said:
I find dandruff to be unique to the right though. Particularly, on the occasions I have been able to observe parades in NI, Orangemen for some reason. Maybe it’s the dark suits/shirts that make it show up.Malmesbury said:
A water canon with some disinfectant soap in the mix would be quite useful around now.BannedinnParis said:
fire up the well quite klaxon.isam said:
Lock up a load of the far right for three months, then let them loose in London on the piss and the gear on a hot Summer Saturday after spending the last week watch militant lefties smash up olde English statues on tv... what could go wrong?Floater said:
I think thats fair commentBlack_Rook said:
The extreme right and the extreme left are clearly two sides of the same rotten coin, but what's going on with the demos is a little more complicated.kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
The big BLM protests appear to consist largely of concerned citizens who are more interested in anti-racism than in the anti-capitalist baggage that some in the movement are also carrying. They then attract the usual fringe of hard left shit-stirrers out to make trouble.
The smaller hard right counter-demos appear to consist entirely of nutters.
The consequence of the behaviour of one mob going unchecked is that, of course, the other feels justified and emboldened.
that is, so long as it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings
One thing the ultra left and the ultra right share is BO.
If only a London Mayor had bought one.
The shinners were always very smelly - the ones in the balaclava's hadn't ever washed them, or the sweaters with the shiny elbow patches. Worried about shrinkage in the wash, maybe.
The poor girl behind the bar who found an Irish friends backpack - she thought she had found a bomb. It was his dirty washing... almost as bad, in his case. The chorus of "For f&8ks sake X, you were supposed to decommission your undies weeks ago..."
An American friend rang for help at 1am - locked out of his hotel. On the NI Border - in one of the fun bits. He'd tried ringing the police - who'd pretty much laughed at him..1 -
You mean the smirr. MIzzle is poncy Southronese. But I quite like this weather. No risk of sunburn to this gingery freckled chap!eadric said:
The one advantage of Scotland's truly dreadful climate, perhaps the worst in the world, is that you don't get large street demos and mass protests, because no one can be arsed to go out in the freezing mizzleTheuniondivvie said:
Wasn't last week. Are you saying lefty streetfighters have more fortitude than today's Der Stalhelm wannabes?eadric said:
Are you surprised they didn't turn out, look at the typically shite Scottish weather.Theuniondivvie said:In Scotland we've now perfected the air shot defence. Huns, SDLers and Loyalists work themselves up to a red faced ferment, take a swing and there's nothing there. These lads might have to deface a few statues themselves to keep the righteous indignation going.
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271788852328509445?s=20
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271790759944093704?s=20
London is lovely and sunny and hot0 -
Correct. For all the very considerable evils that Communist totalitarianism in practice has led to, the Nazi vision of the subjugation of all peoples to the single German master race, and the serious attempt to turn this vision into reality by brute force and genocide, this stands alone.tlg86 said:
I’m shocked that you reach this conclusion.kinabalu said:
Pretty much agree. But for me the brutish, overtly racist nastiness of the far right means they clinch the biscuit.Black_Rook said:
The extreme right and the extreme left are clearly two sides of the same rotten coin, but what's going on with the demos is a little more complicated.kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
The big BLM protests appear to consist largely of concerned citizens who are more interested in anti-racism than in the anti-
capitalist baggage that some in the movement are also carrying. They then attract the usual fringe of hard left shit-stirrers out to make trouble.
The smaller hard right counter-demos appear to consist entirely of nutters.
The consequence of the behaviour of one mob going unchecked is that, of course, the other feels justified and emboldened.
No doubt you also think the hammer and sickle is not as bad as a swastika.
I think most people, if they think about it properly, will feel the same.
It's not a left v right thing.0 -
The Notting Hill riots say hi.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
I think you'll find that black people have been provoking outrage by existing and asking to be treated fairly for quite a while now.1 -
Yeap. They went soft for 2-3 days and the real scumbags went look the plod are going easy because they are worried about seeming racist, get on the blower to the other gangs, we have looting to be doing.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, reminiscent, as I said previously, of 2011 when the police bigwigs had their men do nothing and then the looting got even more out of control.
0 -
Yes, completely agreeeadric said:
BLM have been hijacked by some very politically savvy Marxists.isam said:
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
This violent confrontation is exactly what they want, ideally white versus black. They WANT a Fascist party to rise, so they can polarise society and try and bring down the centrist Establishment
0 -
BLM have't been hijacked by politically savvy Marxists, they are politically savvy Marxists. Just like the extinction rebellion lot are e.geadric said:
BLM have been hijacked by some very politically savvy Marxists.isam said:
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
This violent confrontation is exactly what they want, ideally white versus black. They WANT a Fascist party to rise, so they can polarise society and try and bring down the centrist Establishment
Gary McFarlane, a prominent member of the Socialist Workers Party (SWP) who has condoned the shooting of racist police officers, has claimed on television to be a Black Lives Matter organiser while calling for “revolution”.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hard-left-hijacks-black-lives-matter-movement-lpmfn3f2j
Which isn't to say all those protesting / going on marches are, but you don't have to look very hard to find out the views of the leadership.1 -
We have a centrist establishment?eadric said:
BLM have been hijacked by some very politically savvy Marxists.isam said:
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
This violent confrontation is exactly what they want, ideally white versus black. They WANT a Fascist party to rise, so they can polarise society and try and bring down the centrist Establishment0 -
"Sir, there is no settling the point of precedency between a louse and a flea."kinabalu said:
Correct. For all the very considerable evils that Communist totalitarianism in practice has led to, the Nazi vision of the subjugation of all peoples to the single German master race, and the serious attempt to turn this vision into reality by brute force and genocide, this stands alone.tlg86 said:
I’m shocked that you reach this conclusion.kinabalu said:
Pretty much agree. But for me the brutish, overtly racist nastiness of the far right means they clinch the biscuit.Black_Rook said:
The extreme right and the extreme left are clearly two sides of the same rotten coin, but what's going on with the demos is a little more complicated.kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
The big BLM protests appear to consist largely of concerned citizens who are more interested in anti-racism than in the anti-
capitalist baggage that some in the movement are also carrying. They then attract the usual fringe of hard left shit-stirrers out to make trouble.
The smaller hard right counter-demos appear to consist entirely of nutters.
The consequence of the behaviour of one mob going unchecked is that, of course, the other feels justified and emboldened.
No doubt you also think the hammer and sickle is not as bad as a swastika.
I think most people, if they think about it properly, will feel the same.
It's not a left v right thing.
Murderous violence was a feature of both ideologies, not a bug.1 -
There's always Heard Island in the Southern Ocean. More or less constant blizzards and 8+ on the Beaufort with an active volcano in the middle.eadric said:
The one advantage of Scotland's truly dreadful climate, perhaps the worst in the world, is that you don't get large street demos and mass protests, because no one can be arsed to go out in the freezing mizzleTheuniondivvie said:
Wasn't last week. Are you saying lefty streetfighters have more fortitude than today's Der Stalhelm wannabes?eadric said:
Are you surprised they didn't turn out, look at the typically shite Scottish weather.Theuniondivvie said:In Scotland we've now perfected the air shot defence. Huns, SDLers and Loyalists work themselves up to a red faced ferment, take a swing and there's nothing there. These lads might have to deface a few statues themselves to keep the righteous indignation going.
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271788852328509445?s=20
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271790759944093704?s=20
London is lovely and sunny and hot1 -
Oh god, have I missed the obvious? Who is it then?isam said:
In his dreams!kinabalu said:
Not googling so is it him? Is that a bit of Waters?isam said:
"One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist" - said a bitter, miserable junkie with the usual extreme left views on what's Kosherkinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
The "bitter miserable junkie with the usual ..." bit, I mean, not the "one man's freedom fighter is another man's etc" (I know that one).
I am not googling it. Totally refuse to do that.0 -
Was it only yesterday that we were getting the proposition that the some of the defacement was being done by cunning, right wing agents provocateurs? Things move so fast.eadric said:
BLM have been hijacked by some very politically savvy Marxists.isam said:
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
This violent confrontation is exactly what they want, ideally white versus black. They WANT a Fascist party to rise, so they can polarise society and try and bring down the centrist Establishment0 -
People in doubt about BLM UK leadership...
We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world. We build deep relationships across the diaspora and strategise to challenge the rise of the authoritarian right-wing across the world, from Brazil to Britain.
We note the comments regarding not being a charity. A charity structure would not allow us the freedom and flexibility to do our political work in the ways we wish to do them.
https://uk.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund0 -
If you were looking for a single totemic item to get the dander up of the Can't Be Arsed Party, then boarding up Churchill was a brilliant way to do it.FrancisUrquhart said:
I think when we look back it won't be that, it will be the mostly white mob pulling down a statue. The optics of a mob given freedom by the police to do so, like something from overthrow of Iraq then sparked open season on any statue you don't like, which has now led to the escalation.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
Its given a rally call for the far right racist knuckle draggers to mobilise around.2 -
I'm slightly confused. Just who appear to be fighting the polis in London?Theuniondivvie said:
Was it only yesterday that we were getting the proposition that the some of the defacement was being done by cunning, right wing agents provocateurs? Things move so fast.eadric said:
BLM have been hijacked by some very politically savvy Marxists.isam said:
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
This violent confrontation is exactly what they want, ideally white versus black. They WANT a Fascist party to rise, so they can polarise society and try and bring down the centrist Establishment0 -
Not sure the pikachu's are practising correct social distancing...
https://twitter.com/andycross8/status/1271796023648751616?s=200 -
Agreed. On the extremes there is not that much difference in scumsucking-ness :-) .kinabalu said:
Correct. For all the very considerable evils that Communist totalitarianism in practice has led to, the Nazi vision of the subjugation of all peoples to the single German master race, and the serious attempt to turn this vision into reality by brute force and genocide, this stands alone.tlg86 said:
I’m shocked that you reach this conclusion.kinabalu said:
Pretty much agree. But for me the brutish, overtly racist nastiness of the far right means they clinch the biscuit.Black_Rook said:
The extreme right and the extreme left are clearly two sides of the same rotten coin, but what's going on with the demos is a little more complicated.kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
The big BLM protests appear to consist largely of concerned citizens who are more interested in anti-racism than in the anti-
capitalist baggage that some in the movement are also carrying. They then attract the usual fringe of hard left shit-stirrers out to make trouble.
The smaller hard right counter-demos appear to consist entirely of nutters.
The consequence of the behaviour of one mob going unchecked is that, of course, the other feels justified and emboldened.
No doubt you also think the hammer and sickle is not as bad as a swastika.
I think most people, if they think about it properly, will feel the same.
It's not a left v right thing.0 -
The provoked I assume, but now it appears that it was the politically savvy Marxists doing the provoking.Carnyx said:
I'm slightly confused. Just who appear to be fighting the polis in London?Theuniondivvie said:
Was it only yesterday that we were getting the proposition that the some of the defacement was being done by cunning, right wing agents provocateurs? Things move so fast.eadric said:
BLM have been hijacked by some very politically savvy Marxists.isam said:
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
This violent confrontation is exactly what they want, ideally white versus black. They WANT a Fascist party to rise, so they can polarise society and try and bring down the centrist Establishment1 -
One striking thing about these protests is the numbers.
Normally the far right protests in Britain really are two men and a dog affairs.
A few more than that in central London, from what I can see on those clips.
1 -
The growing tendency of the comfortable to sneer at the working class and the great dangers if this continued.DougSeal said:
I hate the Manichaeanism of the 21st Century perhaps more than any other aspect of this benighted time. Owen Jones’s Guardian pieces are terrible but “Chavs” is a genuinely important book. It is possible to be critical of individual pieces of work without condemning the whole person.kinabalu said:
Well I'm certainly agreeing on the 100%. Antifa being half as bad as the far right sounds a bit high to me. But I would need to mix with a bunch of them to verify that and I never have. Course, it depends on what your threshold is for cnut in the antifa context. Walker. Galloway. Wilkinson. This is my idea of a trio of cnuts on "our side" as it were. But Owen Jones, who I like and think has integrity and decent values, if he is a "cnut" in your eyes it means we probably have an irreconcilable definition delta.IshmaelZ said:
Speaking as someone you'd probably consider to be on the right, I'd say say that 100% of the far right were complete cnts and probably about 40-50% of antifa (leaving aside, for these purposes, the question whether the non-cnt balance of antifa are complete wankers).kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
hth.
"Chavs" was remarkably astute and prescient. I do not expect him to better it.0 -
Absolutely. Class hate or race hate? As bad as each other.Sean_F said:
"Sir, there is no settling the point of precedency between a louse and a flea."kinabalu said:
Correct. For all the very considerable evils that Communist totalitarianism in practice has led to, the Nazi vision of the subjugation of all peoples to the single German master race, and the serious attempt to turn this vision into reality by brute force and genocide, this stands alone.tlg86 said:
I’m shocked that you reach this conclusion.kinabalu said:
Pretty much agree. But for me the brutish, overtly racist nastiness of the far right means they clinch the biscuit.Black_Rook said:
The extreme right and the extreme left are clearly two sides of the same rotten coin, but what's going on with the demos is a little more complicated.kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
The big BLM protests appear to consist largely of concerned citizens who are more interested in anti-racism than in the anti-
capitalist baggage that some in the movement are also carrying. They then attract the usual fringe of hard left shit-stirrers out to make trouble.
The smaller hard right counter-demos appear to consist entirely of nutters.
The consequence of the behaviour of one mob going unchecked is that, of course, the other feels justified and emboldened.
No doubt you also think the hammer and sickle is not as bad as a swastika.
I think most people, if they think about it properly, will feel the same.
It's not a left v right thing.
Murderous violence was a feature of both ideologies, not a bug.
Though for some reason only inciting racial hatred is a crime in this country.0 -
Particularly if you read it in conjunction with that Guardian piece about going to live among The Head Count. Sanders of The River was less sneering....kinabalu said:
The growing tendency of the comfortable to sneer at the WWC and the great dangers if this continued.DougSeal said:
I hate the Manichaeanism of the 21st Century perhaps more than any other aspect of this benighted time. Owen Jones’s Guardian pieces are terrible but “Chavs” is a genuinely important book. It is possible to be critical of individual pieces of work without condemning the whole person.kinabalu said:
Well I'm certainly agreeing on the 100%. Antifa being half as bad as the far right sounds a bit high to me. But I would need to mix with a bunch of them to verify that and I never have. Course, it depends on what your threshold is for cnut in the antifa context. Walker. Galloway. Wilkinson. This is my idea of a trio of cnuts on "our side" as it were. But Owen Jones, who I like and think has integrity and decent values, if he is a "cnut" in your eyes it means we probably have an irreconcilable definition delta.IshmaelZ said:
Speaking as someone you'd probably consider to be on the right, I'd say say that 100% of the far right were complete cnts and probably about 40-50% of antifa (leaving aside, for these purposes, the question whether the non-cnt balance of antifa are complete wankers).kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
hth.
"Chavs" was remarkably astute and prescient. I do not expect him to better it.
0 -
It’s the same in the US. In addition to the well published major protests in the big cities, there have been smaller protests in small town America across the country.contrarian said:One striking thing about these protests is the numbers.
Normally the far right protests in Britain really are two men and a dog affairs.
A few more than that in central London, from what I can see on those clips.0 -
The last election showed there is very little support for Owen Jones or his politics in working class England.kinabalu said:
The growing tendency of the comfortable to sneer at the working class and the great dangers if this continued.DougSeal said:
I hate the Manichaeanism of the 21st Century perhaps more than any other aspect of this benighted time. Owen Jones’s Guardian pieces are terrible but “Chavs” is a genuinely important book. It is possible to be critical of individual pieces of work without condemning the whole person.kinabalu said:
Well I'm certainly agreeing on the 100%. Antifa being half as bad as the far right sounds a bit high to me. But I would need to mix with a bunch of them to verify that and I never have. Course, it depends on what your threshold is for cnut in the antifa context. Walker. Galloway. Wilkinson. This is my idea of a trio of cnuts on "our side" as it were. But Owen Jones, who I like and think has integrity and decent values, if he is a "cnut" in your eyes it means we probably have an irreconcilable definition delta.IshmaelZ said:
Speaking as someone you'd probably consider to be on the right, I'd say say that 100% of the far right were complete cnts and probably about 40-50% of antifa (leaving aside, for these purposes, the question whether the non-cnt balance of antifa are complete wankers).kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
hth.
"Chavs" was remarkably astute and prescient. I do not expect him to better it.2 -
Kerguelen!Dura_Ace said:
There's always Heard Island in the Southern Ocean. More or less constant blizzards and 8+ on the Beaufort with an active volcano in the middle.eadric said:
The one advantage of Scotland's truly dreadful climate, perhaps the worst in the world, is that you don't get large street demos and mass protests, because no one can be arsed to go out in the freezing mizzleTheuniondivvie said:
Wasn't last week. Are you saying lefty streetfighters have more fortitude than today's Der Stalhelm wannabes?eadric said:
Are you surprised they didn't turn out, look at the typically shite Scottish weather.Theuniondivvie said:In Scotland we've now perfected the air shot defence. Huns, SDLers and Loyalists work themselves up to a red faced ferment, take a swing and there's nothing there. These lads might have to deface a few statues themselves to keep the righteous indignation going.
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271788852328509445?s=20
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271790759944093704?s=20
London is lovely and sunny and hot0 -
Looks like a threesome between the polis, Antifa and the Tommy Robinson fan club.Carnyx said:
I'm slightly confused. Just who appear to be fighting the polis in London?Theuniondivvie said:
Was it only yesterday that we were getting the proposition that the some of the defacement was being done by cunning, right wing agents provocateurs? Things move so fast.eadric said:
BLM have been hijacked by some very politically savvy Marxists.isam said:
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
This violent confrontation is exactly what they want, ideally white versus black. They WANT a Fascist party to rise, so they can polarise society and try and bring down the centrist Establishment
The sensible thing for the Blues to do at this point, is stand back and let the far-left and far-right muppets fight each other.0 -
Yet the truly striking thing about the wave of protests across the world - which certainly hasn’t been lost upon black people - is the significant involvement of younger white people.eadric said:
BLM have been hijacked by some very politically savvy Marxists.isam said:
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
This violent confrontation is exactly what they want, ideally white versus black. They WANT a Fascist party to rise, so they can polarise society and try and bring down the centrist Establishment0 -
EMA - Electrical Merchandise Allowance.FrancisUrquhart said:
Yeap. They went soft for 2-3 days and the real scumbags went look the plod are going easy because they are worried about seeming racist, get on the blower to the other gangs, we have looting to be doing.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, reminiscent, as I said previously, of 2011 when the police bigwigs had their men do nothing and then the looting got even more out of control.
0 -
Telling them that they think wrongly about the likes of Churchill and actually was a war criminal and massive racist fits into that category.kinabalu said:
The growing tendency of the comfortable to sneer at the working class and the great dangers if this continued.DougSeal said:
I hate the Manichaeanism of the 21st Century perhaps more than any other aspect of this benighted time. Owen Jones’s Guardian pieces are terrible but “Chavs” is a genuinely important book. It is possible to be critical of individual pieces of work without condemning the whole person.kinabalu said:
Well I'm certainly agreeing on the 100%. Antifa being half as bad as the far right sounds a bit high to me. But I would need to mix with a bunch of them to verify that and I never have. Course, it depends on what your threshold is for cnut in the antifa context. Walker. Galloway. Wilkinson. This is my idea of a trio of cnuts on "our side" as it were. But Owen Jones, who I like and think has integrity and decent values, if he is a "cnut" in your eyes it means we probably have an irreconcilable definition delta.IshmaelZ said:
Speaking as someone you'd probably consider to be on the right, I'd say say that 100% of the far right were complete cnts and probably about 40-50% of antifa (leaving aside, for these purposes, the question whether the non-cnt balance of antifa are complete wankers).kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
hth.
"Chavs" was remarkably astute and prescient. I do not expect him to better it.
It is Brexit rehashed, your a massive racist, because you want to control immigration. And now you are clearly a massive thick racist, because you like Churchill and are proud we won the war about the Nazis.2 -
Undeniably masked, though.FrancisUrquhart said:Not sure the pikachu's are practising correct social distancing...
https://twitter.com/andycross8/status/1271796023648751616?s=200 -
The various strains of totalitarian marxism are a long way ahead on the body count compared to facsim though.Sean_F said:
"Sir, there is no settling the point of precedency between a louse and a flea."kinabalu said:
Correct. For all the very considerable evils that Communist totalitarianism in practice has led to, the Nazi vision of the subjugation of all peoples to the single German master race, and the serious attempt to turn this vision into reality by brute force and genocide, this stands alone.tlg86 said:
I’m shocked that you reach this conclusion.kinabalu said:
Pretty much agree. But for me the brutish, overtly racist nastiness of the far right means they clinch the biscuit.Black_Rook said:
The extreme right and the extreme left are clearly two sides of the same rotten coin, but what's going on with the demos is a little more complicated.kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
The big BLM protests appear to consist largely of concerned citizens who are more interested in anti-racism than in the anti-
capitalist baggage that some in the movement are also carrying. They then attract the usual fringe of hard left shit-stirrers out to make trouble.
The smaller hard right counter-demos appear to consist entirely of nutters.
The consequence of the behaviour of one mob going unchecked is that, of course, the other feels justified and emboldened.
No doubt you also think the hammer and sickle is not as bad as a swastika.
I think most people, if they think about it properly, will feel the same.
It's not a left v right thing.
Murderous violence was a feature of both ideologies, not a bug.1 -
Perhaps if you call a man a racist for long enough, he has nowhere to go but to turn around and show you just how racist he can be.FrancisUrquhart said:
Telling them that they think wrongly about the likes of Churchill and actually was a war criminal and massive racist fits into that category.kinabalu said:
The growing tendency of the comfortable to sneer at the working class and the great dangers if this continued.DougSeal said:
I hate the Manichaeanism of the 21st Century perhaps more than any other aspect of this benighted time. Owen Jones’s Guardian pieces are terrible but “Chavs” is a genuinely important book. It is possible to be critical of individual pieces of work without condemning the whole person.kinabalu said:
Well I'm certainly agreeing on the 100%. Antifa being half as bad as the far right sounds a bit high to me. But I would need to mix with a bunch of them to verify that and I never have. Course, it depends on what your threshold is for cnut in the antifa context. Walker. Galloway. Wilkinson. This is my idea of a trio of cnuts on "our side" as it were. But Owen Jones, who I like and think has integrity and decent values, if he is a "cnut" in your eyes it means we probably have an irreconcilable definition delta.IshmaelZ said:
Speaking as someone you'd probably consider to be on the right, I'd say say that 100% of the far right were complete cnts and probably about 40-50% of antifa (leaving aside, for these purposes, the question whether the non-cnt balance of antifa are complete wankers).kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
hth.
"Chavs" was remarkably astute and prescient. I do not expect him to better it.
It is Brexit rehashed, your a massive racist, because you want to control immigration. And now you are clearly a massive thick racist, because you like Churchill and are proud we won the war about the Nazis.0 -
.
Students are taught Marxism is the truth, and to protest if someone drops an HIanB2 said:
Yet the truly striking thing about the wave of protests across the world - which certainly hasn’t been lost upon black people - is the significant involvement of younger white people.eadric said:
BLM have been hijacked by some very politically savvy Marxists.isam said:
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
This violent confrontation is exactly what they want, ideally white versus black. They WANT a Fascist party to rise, so they can polarise society and try and bring down the centrist Establishment-1 -
Again, I think you will find plenty of historical echoes in the current events. The anti racism movement has always borrowed language, tactics and ideas from the US civil rights movement, where the struggle had deeper roots for obvious reasons. The Bristol bus boycott for instance followed similar tactics by King. (Was it in Montgomery, AL? I can't remember). I bet you had plenty of people back then complaining that we didn't need any of that American nonsense here.eadric said:
Completely different.OnlyLivingBoy said:
The Notting Hill riots say hi.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
I think you'll find that black people have been provoking outrage by existing and asking to be treated fairly for quite a while now.
This is a new kind of culture war imported direct from the USA. Arguing against that is pointless.
BLM is also a new kind of religion: there's an excellent essay on it in the Atlantic I think - I'll try and dig it out0 -
Interesting that the peace of Japan is shown up here considering how that particular country deals with people of other races in the past and in the present.Nigelb said:
Undeniably masked, though.FrancisUrquhart said:Not sure the pikachu's are practising correct social distancing...
https://twitter.com/andycross8/status/1271796023648751616?s=200 -
Does it ?FrancisUrquhart said:
Telling them that they think wrongly about the likes of Churchill and actually was a war criminal and massive racist fits into that category...kinabalu said:
The growing tendency of the comfortable to sneer at the working class and the great dangers if this continued.DougSeal said:
I hate the Manichaeanism of the 21st Century perhaps more than any other aspect of this benighted time. Owen Jones’s Guardian pieces are terrible but “Chavs” is a genuinely important book. It is possible to be critical of individual pieces of work without condemning the whole person.kinabalu said:
Well I'm certainly agreeing on the 100%. Antifa being half as bad as the far right sounds a bit high to me. But I would need to mix with a bunch of them to verify that and I never have. Course, it depends on what your threshold is for cnut in the antifa context. Walker. Galloway. Wilkinson. This is my idea of a trio of cnuts on "our side" as it were. But Owen Jones, who I like and think has integrity and decent values, if he is a "cnut" in your eyes it means we probably have an irreconcilable definition delta.IshmaelZ said:
Speaking as someone you'd probably consider to be on the right, I'd say say that 100% of the far right were complete cnts and probably about 40-50% of antifa (leaving aside, for these purposes, the question whether the non-cnt balance of antifa are complete wankers).kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
hth.
"Chavs" was remarkably astute and prescient. I do not expect him to better it.
I don’t know about the former, but it’s pretty clear from Churchill’s own words that he was a ‘massive racist’.
That his view were shared by millions in his time doesn’t change that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53033550
.... Churchill told the Palestine Royal Commission that he did not admit wrong had been done to Native Americans or aboriginal Australians as "a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place".
His supporters argue that he was by no means the only person to hold these sorts of views during the period.
He also advocated the use of chemical weapons, "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes”...
Is it sneering or condescending to note that ?0 -
And the lucky citizenry of East Germany did not have to choose.Pulpstar said:
The various strains of totalitarian marxism are a long way ahead on the body count compared to facsim though.
They got both.0 -
What absolute bolloxOnlyLivingBoy said:
The Notting Hill riots say hi.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
I think you'll find that black people have been provoking outrage by existing and asking to be treated fairly for quite a while now.1 -
Training up recent graduates in the company I work for, I am not sure what they are taught. It's not Marxism, but it's not really much of anything else either.stodge said:
Are you certain of this or is it just what you believe or is it a throwaway comment designed to provoke a response?isam said:
Students are taught Marxism is the truth, and to protest if someone drops an H
They are especially weak in critical thinking, English grammar and basic mathematics.
That's not to say they aren't talented. They are. They have merely been royally ripped off by the people who have taught them.
0 -
Turned on sky news
Heard some wanker blaming it all (racism) on capitalism
Turned off sky news
1 -
Disgusting scenes in London today.
Police are really going to have to enforce order.
No quarter for mobs violently 'protecting' statues. No quarter for mobs violently 'attacking' statues.
If order exits the stage, violence flourishes from both wings.0 -
But remember, we mustn't call them Marxists or that might hurt their feelings...Floater said:Turned on sky news
Heard some wanker blaming it all (racism) on capitalism
Turned off sky news-1 -
Pretty certainstodge said:
Are you certain of this or is it just what you believe or is it a throwaway comment designed to provoke a response?isam said:
Students are taught Marxism is the truth, and to protest if someone drops an H
It was the case when I went to Uni 9 years ago. It was a very SWP heavy place, and I see the methods they tried to indoctrinate into the students in a lot of what the far left have done since. I guess when you have worked for a living for 18 years before you go, it's easier to see through the bullshit
In my time they were trying to get the kids to march in protest at tuition fees. We overheard the lecturers in the pub saying "I've got a mortgage to pay!" whilst telling the kids it was all about broadening their minds. The teenagers locked themselves in the common room for a fortnight, not sure what that achieved0 -
WE just lack the multitude of absolute arseholes that London has ( the right wing unionist nutters excepted) , the London cesspit is teeming with thugs, fascists and every bit of crap from left , right , racist and bigoted backgrounds you can imagine. Hope they knock lumps out of each other and the police finish of the scum left standing.eadric said:
The one advantage of Scotland's truly dreadful climate, perhaps the worst in the world, is that you don't get large street demos and mass protests, because no one can be arsed to go out in the freezing mizzleTheuniondivvie said:
Wasn't last week. Are you saying lefty streetfighters have more fortitude than today's Der Stalhelm wannabes?eadric said:
Are you surprised they didn't turn out, look at the typically shite Scottish weather.Theuniondivvie said:In Scotland we've now perfected the air shot defence. Huns, SDLers and Loyalists work themselves up to a red faced ferment, take a swing and there's nothing there. These lads might have to deface a few statues themselves to keep the righteous indignation going.
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271788852328509445?s=20
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271790759944093704?s=20
London is lovely and sunny and hot0 -
A good biscuit story to unite all PBers.
India’s Comfort Food Tells the Story of its Pandemic
The country’s coronavirus response has affected Indians very differently. One thing unites them, though: a biscuit.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/06/india-biscuits-coronavirus-pandemic-migrant-workers/612619/0 -
For a man who gets triggered as easily as by not being able to commemorate slave traders, hurt feelings are clearly something you specialise inBluestBlue said:
But remember, we mustn't call them Marxists or that might hurt their feelings...Floater said:Turned on sky news
Heard some wanker blaming it all (racism) on capitalism
Turned off sky news1 -
Sadly for the black people protesting genuine grievances, they will quickly discover that many of the young white people have a very different agenda - and see the black protesters simply as a means to their end of smashing up the state.IanB2 said:
Yet the truly striking thing about the wave of protests across the world - which certainly hasn’t been lost upon black people - is the significant involvement of younger white people.eadric said:
BLM have been hijacked by some very politically savvy Marxists.isam said:
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
This violent confrontation is exactly what they want, ideally white versus black. They WANT a Fascist party to rise, so they can polarise society and try and bring down the centrist Establishment1 -
Your lot can't watch an episode of Fawlty Towers without getting triggered, you silly snowflakeDougSeal said:
For a man who gets triggered as easily as by not being able to commemorate slave traders, hurt feelings are clearly something you specialise inBluestBlue said:
But remember, we mustn't call them Marxists or that might hurt their feelings...Floater said:Turned on sky news
Heard some wanker blaming it all (racism) on capitalism
Turned off sky news1 -
Given house and rental prices in London, they’ve probably mostly travelled in from Essexmalcolmg said:
WE just lack the multitude of absolute arseholes that London has ( the right wing unionist nutters excepted) , the London cesspit is teeming with thugs, fascists and every bit of crap from left , right , racist and bigoted backgrounds you can imagine. Hope they knock lumps out of each other and the police finish of the scum left standing.eadric said:
The one advantage of Scotland's truly dreadful climate, perhaps the worst in the world, is that you don't get large street demos and mass protests, because no one can be arsed to go out in the freezing mizzleTheuniondivvie said:
Wasn't last week. Are you saying lefty streetfighters have more fortitude than today's Der Stalhelm wannabes?eadric said:
Are you surprised they didn't turn out, look at the typically shite Scottish weather.Theuniondivvie said:In Scotland we've now perfected the air shot defence. Huns, SDLers and Loyalists work themselves up to a red faced ferment, take a swing and there's nothing there. These lads might have to deface a few statues themselves to keep the righteous indignation going.
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271788852328509445?s=20
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271790759944093704?s=20
London is lovely and sunny and hot0 -
Yes. That was exactly my point. Jones was on to this way before most.FrancisUrquhart said:
Telling them that they think wrongly about the likes of Churchill and actually was a war criminal and massive racist fits into that category.kinabalu said:
The growing tendency of the comfortable to sneer at the working class and the great dangers if this continued.DougSeal said:
I hate the Manichaeanism of the 21st Century perhaps more than any other aspect of this benighted time. Owen Jones’s Guardian pieces are terrible but “Chavs” is a genuinely important book. It is possible to be critical of individual pieces of work without condemning the whole person.kinabalu said:
Well I'm certainly agreeing on the 100%. Antifa being half as bad as the far right sounds a bit high to me. But I would need to mix with a bunch of them to verify that and I never have. Course, it depends on what your threshold is for cnut in the antifa context. Walker. Galloway. Wilkinson. This is my idea of a trio of cnuts on "our side" as it were. But Owen Jones, who I like and think has integrity and decent values, if he is a "cnut" in your eyes it means we probably have an irreconcilable definition delta.IshmaelZ said:
Speaking as someone you'd probably consider to be on the right, I'd say say that 100% of the far right were complete cnts and probably about 40-50% of antifa (leaving aside, for these purposes, the question whether the non-cnt balance of antifa are complete wankers).kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
hth.
"Chavs" was remarkably astute and prescient. I do not expect him to better it.
It is Brexit rehashed, your a massive racist, because you want to control immigration. And now you are clearly a massive thick racist, because you like Churchill and are proud we won the war about the Nazis.
Difference is, his remedy was material redistribution in favour of the working class rather than - as with the right wing spirits behind Brexit - whipping up xenophobia and exploiting this to further a project that is not about benefiting the working class at all.1 -
The issue is that the universities now teach them what to think, as opposed to how to think.contrarian said:
Training up recent graduates in the company I work for, I am not sure what they are taught. It's not Marxism, but it's not really much of anything else either.stodge said:
Are you certain of this or is it just what you believe or is it a throwaway comment designed to provoke a response?isam said:
Students are taught Marxism is the truth, and to protest if someone drops an H
They are especially weak in critical thinking, English grammar and basic mathematics.
That's not to say they aren't talented. They are. They have merely been royally ripped off by the people who have taught them.1 -
Carnyx, far better than that horrible concrete frying pan , it is a shithole when the sun shines and fact it is full of arseholes and comic singers completes the picture. Cumbernauld is far nicer even on a dreich day.Carnyx said:
You mean the smirr. MIzzle is poncy Southronese. But I quite like this weather. No risk of sunburn to this gingery freckled chap!eadric said:
The one advantage of Scotland's truly dreadful climate, perhaps the worst in the world, is that you don't get large street demos and mass protests, because no one can be arsed to go out in the freezing mizzleTheuniondivvie said:
Wasn't last week. Are you saying lefty streetfighters have more fortitude than today's Der Stalhelm wannabes?eadric said:
Are you surprised they didn't turn out, look at the typically shite Scottish weather.Theuniondivvie said:In Scotland we've now perfected the air shot defence. Huns, SDLers and Loyalists work themselves up to a red faced ferment, take a swing and there's nothing there. These lads might have to deface a few statues themselves to keep the righteous indignation going.
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271788852328509445?s=20
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271790759944093704?s=20
London is lovely and sunny and hot1 -
That would be an amazingly childish response. Perhaps they could listen & try to be a bit less racist? Is that really too much to ask?contrarian said:
Perhaps if you call a man a racist for long enough, he has nowhere to go but to turn around and show you just how racist he can be.
0 -
It seems the working class preferred protectionism that allowed them access to local jobs at the going rate to being dragged to the bottom of the market then reimbursed with various kinds of dole moneykinabalu said:
Yes. That was exactly my point. Jones was on to this way before most.FrancisUrquhart said:
Telling them that they think wrongly about the likes of Churchill and actually was a war criminal and massive racist fits into that category.kinabalu said:
The growing tendency of the comfortable to sneer at the working class and the great dangers if this continued.DougSeal said:
I hate the Manichaeanism of the 21st Century perhaps more than any other aspect of this benighted time. Owen Jones’s Guardian pieces are terrible but “Chavs” is a genuinely important book. It is possible to be critical of individual pieces of work without condemning the whole person.kinabalu said:
Well I'm certainly agreeing on the 100%. Antifa being half as bad as the far right sounds a bit high to me. But I would need to mix with a bunch of them to verify that and I never have. Course, it depends on what your threshold is for cnut in the antifa context. Walker. Galloway. Wilkinson. This is my idea of a trio of cnuts on "our side" as it were. But Owen Jones, who I like and think has integrity and decent values, if he is a "cnut" in your eyes it means we probably have an irreconcilable definition delta.IshmaelZ said:
Speaking as someone you'd probably consider to be on the right, I'd say say that 100% of the far right were complete cnts and probably about 40-50% of antifa (leaving aside, for these purposes, the question whether the non-cnt balance of antifa are complete wankers).kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
hth.
"Chavs" was remarkably astute and prescient. I do not expect him to better it.
It is Brexit rehashed, your a massive racist, because you want to control immigration. And now you are clearly a massive thick racist, because you like Churchill and are proud we won the war about the Nazis.
Difference is, his remedy was material redistribution in favour of the working class rather than - as with the right wing spirits behind Brexit - whipping up xenophobia and exploiting this to further a project that is not about benefiting the working class at all.1 -
Might as well bring back live football with a crowd, can't see how it will change R now.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
It has been the case through history that revolutionaries have been perpetually disappointed by the absence of radicalism amongst the working classes, and protests and revolutions have always been fuelled by what we would describe as middle class younger people, from 1968 back through the French and Russian revolutions. Indeed there is a theory that protest and social unrest tends to peak when there is an excess of supply of aspiring middle class youngsters compared to the number of relatively privileged opportunities that their society is able to offer.Sandpit said:
Sadly for the black people protesting genuine grievances, they will quickly discover that many of the young white people have a very different agenda - and see the black protesters simply as a means to their end of smashing up the state.IanB2 said:
Yet the truly striking thing about the wave of protests across the world - which certainly hasn’t been lost upon black people - is the significant involvement of younger white people.eadric said:
BLM have been hijacked by some very politically savvy Marxists.isam said:
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
This violent confrontation is exactly what they want, ideally white versus black. They WANT a Fascist party to rise, so they can polarise society and try and bring down the centrist Establishment
Some even suggest that the slaughter and devastation of the English Wars of the Roses arose simply because the royalty of the time had children and grandchildren way in excess of the number of baronial positions available to them.
Consider the future prospects for younger graduates in the immediate post-COVID society and maybe there is a bigger picture.1 -
The more you see this, the more you understand why Malcolm X wanted the white people *not* to join the movement...Sandpit said:
Sadly for the black people protesting genuine grievances, they will quickly discover that many of the young white people have a very different agenda - and see the black protesters simply as a means to their end of smashing up the state.IanB2 said:
Yet the truly striking thing about the wave of protests across the world - which certainly hasn’t been lost upon black people - is the significant involvement of younger white people.eadric said:
BLM have been hijacked by some very politically savvy Marxists.isam said:
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
This violent confrontation is exactly what they want, ideally white versus black. They WANT a Fascist party to rise, so they can polarise society and try and bring down the centrist Establishment2 -
Look |I'm not going to apologise for these people. What they are doing is wrong.Phil said:
That would be an amazingly childish response. Perhaps they could listen & try to be a bit less racist? Is that really too much to ask?contrarian said:
Perhaps if you call a man a racist for long enough, he has nowhere to go but to turn around and show you just how racist he can be.1 -
Oh mum, they've made me be a fascist.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
1 -
The SWP try and insert themselves into every protest movement going so this is hardly surprising news. Personally I’m a bit sceptical of any claims to "leadership" of any movement from an SWP representative.FrancisUrquhart said:
BLM have't been hijacked by politically savvy Marxists, they are politically savvy Marxists. Just like the extinction rebellion lot are e.geadric said:
BLM have been hijacked by some very politically savvy Marxists.isam said:
They are defintely the smarter of the two though. The Football Lads Alliance didn't have the brains to give themselves a name that meant every soppy, old, white middle class wally felt unable to criticise them no matter what they did.eadric said:Black Lives Matter, a movement dedicated to racial equality, has provoked the first violent, racially tinged culture war in the history of the UK, and likely enabled the rise of a large, aggressive far right movement able to put large numbers of people on the street, not the normal pitiful crowd.
Brilliant.
This violent confrontation is exactly what they want, ideally white versus black. They WANT a Fascist party to rise, so they can polarise society and try and bring down the centrist Establishment
Gary McFarlane, a prominent member of the Socialist Workers Party (SWP) who has condoned the shooting of racist police officers, has claimed on television to be a Black Lives Matter organiser while calling for “revolution”.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hard-left-hijacks-black-lives-matter-movement-lpmfn3f2j
Which isn't to say all those protesting / going on marches are, but you don't have to look very hard to find out the views of the leadership.1 -
Sadly not. Variety of reasons for that. Have often given my analysis of GE19 so will not do again here. But his book "Chavs" is imo very good. It shows great insight into, and affection for, the working class. Which he is of course.contrarian said:
The last election showed there is very little support for Owen Jones or his politics in working class England.kinabalu said:
The growing tendency of the comfortable to sneer at the working class and the great dangers if this continued.DougSeal said:
I hate the Manichaeanism of the 21st Century perhaps more than any other aspect of this benighted time. Owen Jones’s Guardian pieces are terrible but “Chavs” is a genuinely important book. It is possible to be critical of individual pieces of work without condemning the whole person.kinabalu said:
Well I'm certainly agreeing on the 100%. Antifa being half as bad as the far right sounds a bit high to me. But I would need to mix with a bunch of them to verify that and I never have. Course, it depends on what your threshold is for cnut in the antifa context. Walker. Galloway. Wilkinson. This is my idea of a trio of cnuts on "our side" as it were. But Owen Jones, who I like and think has integrity and decent values, if he is a "cnut" in your eyes it means we probably have an irreconcilable definition delta.IshmaelZ said:
Speaking as someone you'd probably consider to be on the right, I'd say say that 100% of the far right were complete cnts and probably about 40-50% of antifa (leaving aside, for these purposes, the question whether the non-cnt balance of antifa are complete wankers).kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
hth.
"Chavs" was remarkably astute and prescient. I do not expect him to better it.
Any case we all know who is really sneering at the working class. And there'll be hell to pay when they find out.0 -
If the people on the left (of the clip!) are the far right, in Newcastle, that is a very very high turnout for a place like that.FrancisUrquhart said:
Much higher than I would have expected.0 -
Sneering if you selectively quote him!Nigelb said:
Does it ?FrancisUrquhart said:
Telling them that they think wrongly about the likes of Churchill and actually was a war criminal and massive racist fits into that category...kinabalu said:
The growing tendency of the comfortable to sneer at the working class and the great dangers if this continued.DougSeal said:
I hate the Manichaeanism of the 21st Century perhaps more than any other aspect of this benighted time. Owen Jones’s Guardian pieces are terrible but “Chavs” is a genuinely important book. It is possible to be critical of individual pieces of work without condemning the whole person.kinabalu said:
Well I'm certainly agreeing on the 100%. Antifa being half as bad as the far right sounds a bit high to me. But I would need to mix with a bunch of them to verify that and I never have. Course, it depends on what your threshold is for cnut in the antifa context. Walker. Galloway. Wilkinson. This is my idea of a trio of cnuts on "our side" as it were. But Owen Jones, who I like and think has integrity and decent values, if he is a "cnut" in your eyes it means we probably have an irreconcilable definition delta.IshmaelZ said:
Speaking as someone you'd probably consider to be on the right, I'd say say that 100% of the far right were complete cnts and probably about 40-50% of antifa (leaving aside, for these purposes, the question whether the non-cnt balance of antifa are complete wankers).kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
hth.
"Chavs" was remarkably astute and prescient. I do not expect him to better it.
I don’t know about the former, but it’s pretty clear from Churchill’s own words that he was a ‘massive racist’.
That his view were shared by millions in his time doesn’t change that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53033550
.... Churchill told the Palestine Royal Commission that he did not admit wrong had been done to Native Americans or aboriginal Australians as "a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place".
His supporters argue that he was by no means the only person to hold these sorts of views during the period.
He also advocated the use of chemical weapons, "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes”...
Is it sneering or condescending to note that ?
“I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas.
“I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gasses: gasses can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effects on most of those affected.”
- Winston S. Churchill: departmental minute (Churchill papers: 16/16), 12 May 1919.
War Office2 -
Yes, famously the Red Clydeside uprising was put down with a bout of heavy rain.eadric said:
The one advantage of Scotland's truly dreadful climate, perhaps the worst in the world, is that you don't get large street demos and mass protests, because no one can be arsed to go out in the freezing mizzleTheuniondivvie said:
Wasn't last week. Are you saying lefty streetfighters have more fortitude than today's Der Stalhelm wannabes?eadric said:
Are you surprised they didn't turn out, look at the typically shite Scottish weather.Theuniondivvie said:In Scotland we've now perfected the air shot defence. Huns, SDLers and Loyalists work themselves up to a red faced ferment, take a swing and there's nothing there. These lads might have to deface a few statues themselves to keep the righteous indignation going.
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271788852328509445?s=20
https://twitter.com/IndigoFast/status/1271790759944093704?s=20
London is lovely and sunny and hot0 -
This is one long term consequence of maximising the chances of pupils and student passing the exams rather than focussing on teaching well. This attitude is ingrained in the Engish education system.Sandpit said:
The issue is that the universities now teach them what to think, as opposed to how to think.contrarian said:
Training up recent graduates in the company I work for, I am not sure what they are taught. It's not Marxism, but it's not really much of anything else either.stodge said:
Are you certain of this or is it just what you believe or is it a throwaway comment designed to provoke a response?isam said:
Students are taught Marxism is the truth, and to protest if someone drops an H
They are especially weak in critical thinking, English grammar and basic mathematics.
That's not to say they aren't talented. They are. They have merely been royally ripped off by the people who have taught them.1 -
Given we were talking about Gone With The Wind yesterday I do see parallels with our world.kinabalu said:
The growing tendency of the comfortable to sneer at the working class and the great dangers if this continued.DougSeal said:
I hate the Manichaeanism of the 21st Century perhaps more than any other aspect of this benighted time. Owen Jones’s Guardian pieces are terrible but “Chavs” is a genuinely important book. It is possible to be critical of individual pieces of work without condemning the whole person.kinabalu said:
Well I'm certainly agreeing on the 100%. Antifa being half as bad as the far right sounds a bit high to me. But I would need to mix with a bunch of them to verify that and I never have. Course, it depends on what your threshold is for cnut in the antifa context. Walker. Galloway. Wilkinson. This is my idea of a trio of cnuts on "our side" as it were. But Owen Jones, who I like and think has integrity and decent values, if he is a "cnut" in your eyes it means we probably have an irreconcilable definition delta.IshmaelZ said:
Speaking as someone you'd probably consider to be on the right, I'd say say that 100% of the far right were complete cnts and probably about 40-50% of antifa (leaving aside, for these purposes, the question whether the non-cnt balance of antifa are complete wankers).kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
hth.
"Chavs" was remarkably astute and prescient. I do not expect him to better it.
The plantocarcy are our comfortable middle classes, the slaves are our cheap and servile migrant workers and the poor whites / hillbillies are our white working class.1 -
Which version blitzed London and other UK cities?Pulpstar said:
The various strains of totalitarian marxism are a long way ahead on the body count compared to facsim though.Sean_F said:
"Sir, there is no settling the point of precedency between a louse and a flea."kinabalu said:
Correct. For all the very considerable evils that Communist totalitarianism in practice has led to, the Nazi vision of the subjugation of all peoples to the single German master race, and the serious attempt to turn this vision into reality by brute force and genocide, this stands alone.tlg86 said:
I’m shocked that you reach this conclusion.kinabalu said:
Pretty much agree. But for me the brutish, overtly racist nastiness of the far right means they clinch the biscuit.Black_Rook said:
The extreme right and the extreme left are clearly two sides of the same rotten coin, but what's going on with the demos is a little more complicated.kinabalu said:I'm sensing a "far right and antifa - bad people on both sides" vibe taking hold on my favourite internet chat forum. Ah well. Free speech trumps my feelings, I suppose.
The big BLM protests appear to consist largely of concerned citizens who are more interested in anti-racism than in the anti-
capitalist baggage that some in the movement are also carrying. They then attract the usual fringe of hard left shit-stirrers out to make trouble.
The smaller hard right counter-demos appear to consist entirely of nutters.
The consequence of the behaviour of one mob going unchecked is that, of course, the other feels justified and emboldened.
No doubt you also think the hammer and sickle is not as bad as a swastika.
I think most people, if they think about it properly, will feel the same.
It's not a left v right thing.
Murderous violence was a feature of both ideologies, not a bug.0 -
TBF he’s relatively new here, and hasn’t learned that childish responses are mostly reserved to Sean of this parish.Phil said:
That would be an amazingly childish response. Perhaps they could listen & try to be a bit less racist? Is that really too much to ask?contrarian said:
Perhaps if you call a man a racist for long enough, he has nowhere to go but to turn around and show you just how racist he can be.eadric said:Whoah the Fa just chased the Antifa out of Trafalgar Sq. Proper ruck
1 -
Defenders of a Churchill statue making Nazi salutes. I’m starting to get the impression, just maybe, that they are not quite as clued up about history as they think.
https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/12717613773178511360