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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,096
    eadric said:

    Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?

    I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
    I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,996
    nico67 said:

    I expect a deal will be done because Bozo knows the right wing press will big up anything with his name attached to it and he can just rebrand another capitulation as the best deal ever.

    Daily Mail isn't on his Christmas card list....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,647
    eadric said:

    No, 2014. The first Indyref

    When historians come to chart the Total Decline of the West, it will begin with the Scots narrowly saying Nay

    2008 GFC.

    That era has not yet fully played out.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,132
    edited June 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think he will be. Not this time.
    *If* Chauvin gets jail time, unless they find some facility full of white collar minor offenders, serving his sentence will be something of a shit show.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited June 2020
    Pulpstar said:


    I do wish we knew how many people we've tested though ^^;;;;;

    We ought to be able to split to "positive test", "negative test", "test not yet returned", "test returned, not yet analysed", "inconclusive test"

    We do, more or less. It's just there's been a little doublecounting, supposedly 2/3% or so, because there are so many testing bodies involved: 4 national health services, multiple testing routes for each, some public, some private, with the usual problems around data privacy probably not helping.

    Worth pointing out that for many countries you don't get a breakdown of testing data - for example, Germany produces total number of tests, once a week, with just a note saying they do multiple tests/person (as does every country).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,498

    David Lammy has - to my amazement - won my respect on this occasion. He explicitly said that he doesn't condone violence and riots AND that he would not march with BLM because that would make him a hypocrite after criticizing Cummings.

    As for Starmer, on the other hand, actions speak louder than words. Two days after the illegal actions of that mob, he and dozens of Labour MPs put out photos of themselves kneeling in support of the protesters.

    If they didn't mean to lend their implicit support to illegal acts of violence then literally kneeling before a movement that had perpetrated them very publicly a couple of days earlier was a funny way of showing it...
    Agree. Lammy has gone up in my estimation.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,656

    *If* Chauvin gets jail time, unless they find some facility full of white collar minor offenders serving his sentence will be something of a shit show.
    If he’s cleared then the rest of his life isn’t going to be easy either,
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,132
    eadric said:

    No, 2014. The first Indyref

    When historians come to chart the Total Decline of the West, it will begin with the Scots narrowly saying Nay

    There's always a way to blame the Jocks.

    Joke btw.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,656
    Pulpstar said:

    I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
    In Louisville they shot an EMT and trainee nurse eight times as she slept.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,272
    Pulpstar said:

    I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
    I think he was already cuffed, so why were they kneeling on him anyway?
  • Why so many techty people on here today?

    Good question. I've been avoiding posting on, and mostly avoiding reading, PB for the past few days because of the atmosphere.

    It might be that lockdown anxiety is getting to everyone, quietly ratcheting up tensions. Or it might be a reflection of discourse in the world as a whole.

    Whatever the reason, we should not follow this trend. Try not to denounce someone for their weakest moment, or attack the straw man. Read quotes in context. Resist the urge to blame. Accept that people make honest mistakes. Agree to disagree.

    --AS
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,766
    DougSeal said:

    He did his time for armed robbery, got out, moved to Minneapolis to start over, largely kept his nose clean, found God, even filmed an anti–gun violence video. He wasn’t a model person by any means but he was a model ex-con who paid his debt to his victims and to society by spending five years in prison. He did everything a criminal is supposed to do to rehabilitate himself afterwards. He was an example to ex-cons. But you are suggesting that, rather than be applauded for turning his life around, he should not be grieved after being tortured to death by an agent of the State? Really?
    It would seems so. It would appear that some folk think that if someone is a criminal, a suspected criminal or an ex-con it is excusable for a police officer to kneel on his throat for 8 mins 45 secs. They have an interesting perspective on justice.
  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    edited June 2020
    Last prices matched at Betfair for the Republican nominee resulting from the RNC:

    Trump 1.08
    Pence 42
    Haley 65
    Ryan 100
    Romney 390
    Cruz 600
    Kasich 700
    Rice 730
    Rubio 990
    various others 1000

    And just to muck about, removing Trump and ignoring the various others indicates the following prices:

    Pence 2.42
    Haley 3.72
    Ryan 5.72
    Romney 22
    Cruz 34
    Kasich 40
    Rice 42
    Rubio 57

    Rice has also been suggested on Fox News by Fox's own "senior judicial analyst" Judge Andrew Napolitano as a VP running-mate for Biden.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DougSeal said:

    In Louisville they shot an EMT and trainee nurse eight times as she slept.
    Floyd is worse.

    The EMT was tragic but seems like a genuine accident with gunshots going both ways.

    Floyd was cold blooded murder.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,096
    Surrey said:

    Last prices matched at Betfair for the Republican nominee resulting from the RNC:

    Trump 1.08
    Pence 42
    Haley 65
    Ryan 100
    Romney 390
    Cruz 600
    Kasich 700
    Rice 730
    Rubio 990
    various others 1000

    And just to muck about, removing Trump and ignoring the various others indicates the following prices:

    Pence 2.42
    Haley 3.72
    Ryan 5.72
    Romney 22
    Cruz 34
    Kasich 40
    Rice 42
    Rubio 57
    various others 1000

    The Haley/Pence ratio is mental
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,975
    IshmaelZ said:

    A transparent attempt to win the war by lofty generalisation after a week of bruising defeat in each and every individual battle. Nobody has claimed that black lives matter more or less than other lives, not by so much as .001%. They certainly matter more to the average PBer than to that appalling POS George Floyd, because I don't suppose any of us have ever pointed a loaded weapon at a black woman (unless you have something to share?) It's not as if anyone is advocating a change of government policy to a "black lives matter about 30% as much as other sorts" approach, or that we should be complacent about an epidemic of killings of black people by white policemen that disfigures UK society.

    And I don't think anyone - and I mean anyone - disputes the incomprehensible evil of the European Atlantic slave trade. You may have misunderstood some crucial parts of the argument.

    tldr: why don'y you move to Minnesota?
    Not really.

    I have no particular axe to grind as regards racism. I do believe how American policemen sometimes behave is wrong. George Floyd probably wouldn't be my poster boy. I think the Sandra Bland case is far sadder.

    As you have implied I am not particularly bright so I have clearly misunderstood the cut and thrust of the arguments. My mistake.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,959
    DavidL said:

    Trying to think where that is. Is it on the City Churches?
    I have been able to confirm for myself. This is on the side wall of St Pauls Church in Dundee.

    Nice.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,369
    DavidL said:

    Trying to think where that is. Is it on the City Churches?
    In Dundee C*nt is more or less a term of endearment.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,766
    DavidL said:

    Trying to think where that is. Is it on the City Churches?
    As a fan of the great man, and having read many books on him (including one really bad one by a well known person who would desperately like to be compared with him!), I suspect he would have thought it amusing to be called a c*nt. He would no doubt, have a witty repost.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,096
    Stocky said:

    I think he was already cuffed, so why were they kneeling on him anyway?
    I assumed he wasn't. Which might be subconscious pro police bias on my part. Perhaps.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    Floyd is worse.

    The EMT was tragic but seems like a genuine accident with gunshots going both ways.

    Floyd was cold blooded murder.
    No, it's part of the same issue. Police using deadly force as their first stop. Getting the wrong house can happen, stupid but it can happen. It's the shoot first attitude that needs to change, or in the case of Floyd, kill first. The police in America have turned into judge, jury and executioner far too many times for people suspected of crime because they go in with an attitude of everyone being guilty.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    eadric said:

    No, 2014. The first Indyref

    When historians come to chart the Total Decline of the West, it will begin with the Scots narrowly saying Nay

    Would you have said that if we voted yes?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,656

    Floyd is worse.

    The EMT was tragic but seems like a genuine accident with gunshots going both ways.

    Floyd was cold blooded murder.
    The cops went to completely the wrong apartment in Louisville and executed a no knock warrant. Sure, you can call it an accident, but only in the same way as crashing after forgetting which side of the road we drive on is an accident. Her boyfriend opened fire because a bunch of guys smashed down the door in the middle of the night. I’d have done the same thing. Now he’s being charged with attempted murder.

    And eight times?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pulpstar said:

    I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
    I don't think anyone is making the argument that Floyd's record is either defence, or mitigation, of what happened to him, but it is a legitimate answer to emotive appeals for sympathy based on 8 minutes 34 seconds yada yada. Shit thing to happen, sure, but not my problem, not this country's problem, and couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,647
    eadric said:

    Actually, I'd go back to 9/11

    That kicked off the Iraq War (and all the disasters that came with), the GFC itself was arguably, in part, caused by US debt from that war, and so on and so forth

    Bin Laden wanted to bring down the West when he flew those planes into the Towers. Perhaps, in a hundred years, when we are all being monitored 24/7 by Chinese drones and we have the the face of Emperor Xi tattooed by law on our babies, we will conclude that Osama succeeded
    I fucking hate it when wannabe tossers on the internet say "oh well you should read this book..." but actually....Philip Bobbitt (no relation) writes very well on the various epochs and eras of history which draws interesting lines between events we normally consider unrelated.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,272
    Pulpstar said:

    I assumed he wasn't. Which might be subconscious pro police bias on my part. Perhaps.
    See 1:26 below:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/george-floyd-new-video-officers-kneel-trnd/index.html
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,951
    Carnyx said:

    Would you have said that if we voted yes?
    I would. It's the fact that we had the referendum at all. Identity politics is a dangerous preoccupation.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,132
    DavidL said:

    I have been able to confirm for myself. This is on the side wall of St Pauls Church in Dundee.

    Nice.
    'There is now only one public commemoration noting Mr Churchill’s role as the city’s MP, a small plaque “stuck on the gable end of a building” in Dundee’s centre, the BBC reports. '

    Well, there's two now.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,550
    edited June 2020

    Good question. I've been avoiding posting on, and mostly avoiding reading, PB for the past few days because of the atmosphere.

    It might be that lockdown anxiety is getting to everyone, quietly ratcheting up tensions. Or it might be a reflection of discourse in the world as a whole.

    Whatever the reason, we should not follow this trend. Try not to denounce someone for their weakest moment, or attack the straw man. Read quotes in context. Resist the urge to blame. Accept that people make honest mistakes. Agree to disagree.

    --AS
    :smile: - you really are the biggest sweetie.

    But it's hard, you know. It's hard sometimes.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Not really.

    I have no particular axe to grind as regards racism. I do believe how American policemen sometimes behave is wrong. George Floyd probably wouldn't be my poster boy. I think the Sandra Bland case is far sadder.

    As you have implied I am not particularly bright so I have clearly misunderstood the cut and thrust of the arguments. My mistake.
    Ooh, passive aggression.

    Point us to one of these "dreadful posts" about slavery and perhaps we can explain where you are going wrong.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DougSeal said:

    The cops went to completely the wrong apartment in Louisville and executed a no knock warrant. Sure, you can call it an accident, but only in the same way as crashing after forgetting which side of the road we drive on is an accident. Her boyfriend opened fire because a bunch of guys smashed down the door in the middle of the night. I’d have done the same thing. Now he’s being charged with attempted murder.

    And eight times?
    The idea of no knock warrants is absurd and that combined with America's gun culture and the desire for homeowners to shoot home invaders led to a tragedy IMHO. Its endemic of American violence, not racism, they may not have even known whether the person they were shooting at was black or white.

    I think all charges have been dropped against the boyfriend, I don't think he's being charged with anything anymore let alone attempted murder.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,272
    Shapps just now: "Avoid contact with more than six people, including to protest".
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    I would. It's the fact that we had the referendum at all. Identity politics is a dangerous preoccupation.
    As in British patriotism? Blood and soil speeches by Mr Cameron? It's a position, I suppose. Some of us were actually more worried about the democratic deficit than whether our fellow Scots were white, peelywally, gingery, pink, blue or Proxima Centauran. And now we're stuck with Brexit against our will.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,647
    Stocky said:

    Shapps just now: "Avoid contact with more than six people, including to protest".

    So the grouping has been increased to seven?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,132
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,938
    TOPPING said:

    So the grouping has been increased to seven?
    I think it was always like that but I could be wrong
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,656

    The idea of no knock warrants is absurd and that combined with America's gun culture and the desire for homeowners to shoot home invaders led to a tragedy IMHO. Its endemic of American violence, not racism, they may not have even known whether the person they were shooting at was black or white.

    I think all charges have been dropped against the boyfriend, I don't think he's being charged with anything anymore let alone attempted murder.
    Didn’t know that about the boyfriend. Great news if true.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,850
    kinabalu said:

    lol

    "Muscles" Johnson would wipe the floor with titchy little Khan surely.

    Can't believe you're dissing your man.
    The way Boris flattened that 10-year-old rugby player shows Amir Khan would have no chance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5NN5S9sPFM
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794
    Wonder whether he'll need to do 14 days quarantine.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,975
    IshmaelZ said:

    Ooh, passive aggression.

    Point us to one of these "dreadful posts" about slavery and perhaps we can explain where you are going wrong.
    You don't know me, I don't know you. Why are you trying to pick a fight with me?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,096
    IshmaelZ said:


    I don't think anyone is making the argument that Floyd's record is either defence, or mitigation, of what happened to him, but it is a legitimate answer to emotive appeals for sympathy based on 8 minutes 34 seconds yada yada. Shit thing to happen, sure, but not my problem, not this country's problem, and couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

    Well, with magnificent arguments like that, how can anyone compete.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,550
    edited June 2020

    One think is for certain, an 18 year old black man is 100 times more likely to be killed by another 18 year old black man than by a white policeman.
    I have a proposal for you. From now on, after anything written in protest at racist policing in America, we include in brackets at the end -

    (but let's also note that the black on black murder rate in the US is terribly high).

    How would that suit?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,096

    The way Boris flattened that 10-year-old rugby player shows Amir Khan would have no chance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5NN5S9sPFM
    17 stone of pure muscle, that's our boy Boris.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886
    MaxPB said:

    Wonder whether he'll need to do 14 days quarantine.
    Only if it's from the Quarantine region. Otherwise sparkling isolation.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,504
    MaxPB said:

    Wonder whether he'll need to do 14 days quarantine.
    Diplomatic bubble.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,096
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:
    He was a king who lived a long time ago. So must be a racist I guess.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    You don't know me, I don't know you. Why are you trying to pick a fight with me?
    "Some posts regarding George Floyd, slavery and Black Lives Matter have been dreadful over the last week or so."
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,877
    eadric said:
    Given that he lived in medieval times, it would be amazing if his attitudes to race were acceptable to modern opinion.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,975
    eadric said:

    Are you new here?
    Just inexperienced.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    MaxPB said:

    Wonder whether he'll need to do 14 days quarantine.
    I wonder if "Head of State" counts as an "essential worker"?

    If not, I look forward to Johnson explaining that to Brenda.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,498
    kinabalu said:

    Quite so.

    WTO Brexit has imo always been a total non-starter. Bit like Ref2. Never the remotest chance of it happening.

    But it sure oils many a discussion! :smile:
    It is not 'quite so', it's a glib statement with nothing to support it. Which specific tariffs has Pulpstar in mind? In which cases will they 'beggar' us? As highlighted by Rcs1000 the other day, there are specific concerns for industries like the automotive with complex supply chains. But to most other industries, they are pennies.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,766

    In Dundee C*nt is more or less a term of endearment.
    Or perhaps of respect? I remember having a conversation with a friend as to whether Gordon Brown was a tw*t or a c*nt. He concluded that he was much more of a tw*t. Similarly I would describe Boris Johnson as more tw*t than c*nt. Cummings on the other hand is (and I hate to compliment the man) a complete c*nt
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,272
    kinabalu said:

    I have a proposal for you. From now on, after anything written in protest at racist policing in America, we include in brackets at the end -

    (but let's also note that the black on black murder rate in the US is terribly high).

    How would that suit?
    It`s leagues different if the killing is by a state actor.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Pulpstar said:

    He was a king who lived a long time ago. So must be a racist I guess.
    He was admittedly hard on the English invaders and IIRC his brother invaded Ireland (like rather a lot of kings of Scotland and England). But the relevance to BLM is uncertain. I don't think he ever went on Crusade either (though I am sure he would have liked to go, like rather a lot of kings ditto ditto). His heart did reputedly go separately, but that was postmortem (and may be a myth anyway as it has purportedly been found at Melrose Abbey).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,657

    I wonder if "Head of State" counts as an "essential worker"?

    If not, I look forward to Johnson explaining that to Brenda.

    As long as they meet in Durham, it's fine
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Valance drops Ruth May's name.....wonder if anyone will pick that story up....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,938
    edited June 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    He was a king who lived a long time ago. So must be a racist I guess.
    He won the battle of Bannockburn thereby confirming Scotland an independent kingdom

    And this was in 1314 and he then took Berwick in 1318

    I have no idea why he is described as a racist

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,959
    eadric said:

    Wasn't Winston a mildly controversial MP for Dundee, at some point?
    Yes. DC Thomson really didn't like him and allegedly did not publish a story about him when he was an MP there but in fact had a great catalogue of materials that have been used by serious biographers and possibly even Boris ever since.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,657
    DavidL said:

    Yes. DC Thomson really didn't like him and allegedly did not publish a story about him when he was an MP there but in fact had a great catalogue of materials that have been used by serious biographers and possibly even Boris ever since.

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/1271464987719012352
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,096
    Chris said:

    Given that he lived in medieval times, it would be amazing if his attitudes to race were acceptable to modern opinion.
    He was pre the major slavery times though. Have to wonder how many non white people he encountered tbh.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,766
    Chris said:

    Given that he lived in medieval times, it would be amazing if his attitudes to race were acceptable to modern opinion.
    He was almost certainly very "ist" toward all protected groups
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,550

    The way Boris flattened that 10-year-old rugby player shows Amir Khan would have no chance.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5NN5S9sPFM
    :smile: - too right, showed that little pest what's what, did our Boris.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,550
    edited June 2020

    It is not 'quite so', it's a glib statement with nothing to support it. Which specific tariffs has Pulpstar in mind? In which cases will they 'beggar' us? As highlighted by Rcs1000 the other day, there are specific concerns for industries like the automotive with complex supply chains. But to most other industries, they are pennies.
    I will leave to @Pulpstar. I'm not very clued up on the details of this.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited June 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    He was pre the major slavery times though. Have to wonder how many non white people he encountered tbh.
    https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/blackhistory/early_times/moors.htm has a gap for his time. Which implies zero evidence for any. [edit] Maybe more likely to meet an Inuit or Greenlander broiught back by a Viking/Dane over in the Western Isles, almost.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794
    eadric said:
    Be white. This is what it's come too.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    eadric said:

    No, it doesn't. You thought it was fine to tear down the statue of Colston with mob violence. Polls do not support that. They say "remove" to a museum.

    You also agreed with the tearing down of the statue of Robert Milligan. He was not a slave trader, but a slave owner, which is a significant difference.
    Hmm - surely slave onwers had to trade in slaves to get them in the first place unless by inheritance or breeding? And didn';t they swapsies with other owners to get their slave selection just right?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,766

    You don't know me, I don't know you. Why are you trying to pick a fight with me?
    Because he is a troll that does it to everyone lol. He doesn't really have any formed opinions on anything, he is just competing with @Philip Thompson and @contrarian for the title of Pain in the Arse Contrarian of the Year 2020
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,272
    Shapps: No update on travel corridors until 29 June.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,656
    Scott_xP said:
    I agree with public opinion for once in my life. I’m going soft.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,938
    You do wonder how much longer these daily conferences are to continue for

    Maybe twice a week is all that is needed, they have become largely tedious
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,656
    And me. There’s hope for us all yet ;)
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,766

    You do wonder how much longer these daily conferences are to continue for

    Maybe twice a week is all that is needed, they have become largely tedious

    "become"?!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,938

    "become"?!
    Fair comment
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009
    edited June 2020
    kinabalu said:

    I'm borderline spooky, Malcolm, all know that.

    Bet you all my wordly goods against a sausage roll that there is no WTO Brexit.
    It is a deal
    PS: I will book a couple of removal lorries in anticipation
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,656
    eadric said:

    Colston's entire fortune was built on shipping slaves across the Atlantic, as I understand it? He drove the hideous business.

    That seems very different to someone who bought and sold and owned slaves, which - however horrific - was extremely common before Britain heroically abolished it because we are great; all the early US presidents, and Founding Fathers, owned slaves, probably the vast majority of kings and queens in history owned slaves, all the Roman emperors, bigwigs, all the Greek philosophers, leading thinkers in ISIS, the Prophet Muhammad, and so on.

    If "slave owning" is enough to get your statue pulled down, then there will have to be an orgy of toppling
    I saw someone have a go at Nelson’s Column for his possibly being friends with slave owners. Even I thought that went a bit far.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,572
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:
    He drove the English out of Scotland in much the same way as Gandhi drove the British out of India. And Gandhi was a racist so Bruce must have been too. Is that how this logic thingy works?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    Colston's entire fortune was built on shipping slaves across the Atlantic, as I understand it? He drove the hideous business.

    That seems very different to someone who bought and sold and owned slaves, which - however horrific - was extremely common before Britain heroically abolished it because we are great; all the early US presidents, and Founding Fathers, owned slaves, probably the vast majority of kings and queens in history owned slaves, all the Roman emperors, bigwigs, all the Greek philosophers, leading thinkers in ISIS, the Prophet Muhammad, and so on.

    If "slave owning" is enough to get your statue pulled down, then there will have to be an orgy of toppling
    Fair point - I was thinking of the customers of Colston and his successors such as the owners of the Zong - on the same principle that they were sucking up the trade. But of course slavery was much wider as you say. Some Old Testament persons too even. And still more so if you include serfs - that's just about every mediaval landowner [edit] from Richard III downward.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009
    kinabalu said:

    lol

    "Muscles" Johnson would wipe the floor with titchy little Khan surely.

    Can't believe you're dissing your man.
    He would only beat him if he rolled over him
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Stocky said:

    Shapps: No update on travel corridors until 29 June.

    One does wonder why Walsh/IAG aren't suing Ireland or Spain over identical travel restrictions to the UK ....or slashing the work force at Aer Lingus / Iberia.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,550
    malcolmg said:

    It is a deal
    PS: I will book a couple of removal lorries in anticipation
    :smile: - you just pop that sausage roll in the freezer.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    You do wonder how much longer these daily conferences are to continue for

    Maybe twice a week is all that is needed, they have become largely tedious

    I've stopped watching them now, I figure if there's any actual news it will be posted by someone else here.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009
    eadric said:

    No, 2014. The first Indyref

    When historians come to chart the Total Decline of the West, it will begin with the Scots narrowly saying Nay

    Today we have the Scottish unionist fascists defacing national monuments and trying to blame it on BLM, what a bunch of sleazy no good cowards
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,656
    eadric said:

    Colston's entire fortune was built on shipping slaves across the Atlantic, as I understand it? He drove the hideous business.

    That seems very different to someone who bought and sold and owned slaves, which - however horrific - was extremely common before Britain heroically abolished it because we are great; all the early US presidents, and Founding Fathers, owned slaves, probably the vast majority of kings and queens in history owned slaves, all the Roman emperors, bigwigs, all the Greek philosophers, leading thinkers in ISIS, the Prophet Muhammad, and so on.

    If "slave owning" is enough to get your statue pulled down, then there will have to be an orgy of toppling
    Have there been any attempts to rename July and August?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,938
    malcolmg said:

    Today we have the Scottish unionist fascists defacing national monuments and trying to blame it on BLM, what a bunch of sleazy no good cowards
    Source
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009

    Because he is a troll that does it to everyone lol. He doesn't really have any formed opinions on anything, he is just competing with @Philip Thompson and @contrarian for the title of Pain in the Arse Contrarian of the Year 2020
    The arsehole of arseholes calling someone a troll, you could not make it up.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,550

    You do wonder how much longer these daily conferences are to continue for

    Maybe twice a week is all that is needed, they have become largely tedious

    Glad you said that. I think I agree but was wary to say it - not sure why but I was.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eadric said:

    No, it doesn't. You thought it was fine to tear down the statue of Colston with mob violence. Polls do not support that. They say "remove" to a museum.

    You also agreed with the tearing down of the statue of Robert Milligan. He was not a slave trader, but a slave owner, which is a significant difference.
    Actually I said the statue should end up in a museum. I even said if the people of Bristol wanted the statue back up it should go back up.

    But why let facts get in the way of a rant?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,938
    RobD said:
    However, no one will do the governments calling due to Cummings according to many on here
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,656

    However, no one will do the governments calling due to Cummings according to many on here
    Without wishing to reopen a very stale argument I do think these numbers show why the story gained so much traction.
This discussion has been closed.