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  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited June 2020

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Unless it turns out that his illness has caused him to be permanently disabled, Boris isn't going anywhere, despite the wishful thinking of his opponents. Yes, Covid and its after-effects are going to make the next couple of years a nightmare across the Western world, but that’s unavoidable whoever the leader is, and there’s plenty of opportunity to get back to a semblance of good times by 2024.

    As for ephemeral polls, the current orgy of cultural vandalism has interrupted Labour’s rise as the public wakes up to what the fuck they may be voting into power, as yesterday’s Survation suggests...

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1271057897196306433

    One solitary statue of a mass murderer gets unlawfully taken down, the rightists of PB call it an “orgy of cultural vandalism” and imply the Labour Party is to blame. In the meantime, we will have around 60,000 excess deaths as a result of the Government’s muddled response, more than any comparable country on an aggregate or per capita basis, and the worst economic downturn in the industrialised world, but that’s “unavoidable whoever the leader is”. In the words of one commentator here “you couldn’t make it up”.
    One solitary statue taken down by a violent mob explicitly celebrated by Labour MP Nadia Whittome:

    https://twitter.com/NadiaWhittomeMP/status/1269732031128383490

    Note her exact words about a future Labour Government:

    'I celebrate these acts of resistance.'

    'We need a movement that will tear down systemic racism and the slave owner statues that symbolise it. And we need to win a government that will always be on the side of this movement.'

    The statue's vandals have published a hit list of dozens more across the country to destroy, and they've already defaced many more, including Churchill, Lincoln, and Gandhi.

    Meanwhile, Labour mayors and councils across the country are jumping at the opportunity to 'review' their local monuments, and in the case of Sadiq Khan, to just send in the JCBs as he did with Milligan.

    I'm afraid the facts speak for themselves about the left's intentions.
    And I’m afraid the numbers speak for themselves as to the number of people your party has negligently allowed to die these last three months. Are you on the side of living humans or statues? The impression you give is that you give more of a damn about chunks of metal celebrating mass murderers like Coulson and Milligan than the people of this country. But I am sure that is not the case.
    I'm sure the eventual public inquiry will establish exactly what occurred in this unprecendented global pandemic and the extent to which deaths could or could not have been avoided. Of course, you have all the answers now, thanks to your handy time machine.

    'Living humans or statues' isn't a mutually-exclusive choice, by the way. One can want to save as many lives as possible from the pandemic, as the Government is doing, while deploring the violence and cultural vandalism of the far left. People have noticed what they're about, and it doesn't look as though they like it...
    You base your entire paranoid polemic on one tweet from one Labour MP and a single Survation Poll that still shows your party’s support far more than halved in a month. As for “time machine” - you forget I borrowed yours, you know the one you use to predict elections? In the meantime the below tweets represent the actual views of the Labour Party - and most people in this country

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1269949806463668224

    https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1269919037426929664

    David Lammy has - to my amazement - won my respect on this occasion. He explicitly said that he doesn't condone violence and riots AND that he would not march with BLM because that would make him a hypocrite after criticizing Cummings.

    As for Starmer, on the other hand, actions speak louder than words. Two days after the illegal actions of that mob, he and dozens of Labour MPs put out photos of themselves kneeling in support of the protesters.

    If they didn't mean to lend their implicit support to illegal acts of violence then literally kneeling before a movement that had perpetrated them very publicly a couple of days earlier was a funny way of showing it...
    They were kneeling in support of a movement protesting the racist torture murder of a black civilian by the police of our closest ally. That is what the protests are about, not some imagined “cultural vandalism”, which is a straw man minor by product emphasised by people such as yourself to divert attention from the real issues that need highlighting. But of course you place an equivalence on preserving the memory of the dead enslavers of Black people rather than the actual lives of their living descendants.
    There is literally no comparison between the US and UK on this score, so importing the context of their racial conflicts to this country makes absolutely no sense. Here are the figures to prove it:

    Since 1870, police forces in Great Britain have killed 220 people. Three of them were in 2019, and one in 2018.

    In the US, in 2019, 1,098 people were killed by police. That's 5x as many deaths caused by police in 2019 as in the last 150 years in the UK!

    Funny how the USA is suddenly our 'closest ally' for lefties when they want to import their cultural conflicts, but they want absolutely nothing to do with them at any other time...


    "Taking the knee" is an alternative to violent protest. The fact that Colin Kaepernick tried it and lost his career means that some people have gone further because, clearly, it didn't work. The actions of Starmer et al are, if anything, an attempt to encourage people to undertake less violent forms of protest by going back to an earlier stage.
    You can peacefully protest what happens on Mars for all I care. It's when the protesters turn violent, assault the police, and commit criminal damage that it becomes illicit - as is now clearly the case.

    'between 1990 and 2014 380 deaths in police custody in England and Wales (or as a result of contact with the police were reported), 69 were from BME communities – 18%'

    Otherwise known as fewer than 3 individuals per year in the latter group. There should be obviously be as few deaths in police custody as possible, but those figures are no reason for nationwide unrest.

    'The actions of Starmer et al are, if anything, an attempt to encourage people to undertake less violent forms of protest by going back to an earlier stage'

    That's some heroic spin indeed. Tell me, if a mob of Brexiteers had destroyed an EU monument - and put out a list of dozens more targets they intended to destroy - and then Boris and dozens of Conservative MPs had put out photos of themselves kneeling in support of the Brexiteers, would your interpretation be as generous?

    Somehow I think not.
    Deaths at police hands are unusual in this country, and deaths at police hands where the police officers concerned have committed a crime are very unusual. The officer who killed Azelle Rodney was prosecuted for murder and acquitted. Having read about the case, I don't think the officer gunned the man down just because he was black.
    I wonder in ths same period how many black people under 25 have been killed by black people under 25. I am still struggling with the concept of the BLM movement when they never mention black people killing black people. The murders at the weekend were just ignored.
    You "struggle with the concept" of an anti-racism movement that concentrates on highlighting racism?
    I struggle with the concept of an organisation called Black Lives Matter than isn't really about black lives mattering.

    If it was about black lives mattering would actually be asking the police to come down far more heavily on the black people cutting a swathe through black communities of America in a well documented explosion of violence and murder that far outweighs anything anybody in the white community could do,

    Instead black lives matter is facilitating the acceleration of that explosion by what we see in Mineapolis and Seattle. Chicago too. The protests coincided with a bloodbath of black on black murders there last week end.

    Perhaps if the police behaved more appropriately in the black communities then they would be trusted on gang crime rather more. From what I see, black communities are very concerned over gang and drug crime, but past experience inhibits their attitude to policing, particularly aggressive militarised policing.
    I sense the police and the black community would both be in a better place if the gangs were not fabulously enriched by the thriving illegal drugs trade.

    Instead of defunding the police why not defund the gangs by legalising more banned substances.

    Its something Black Lives Matter sould be calling for, if they really cared about black lives.

  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    If we crash out of the EU without any agreement, I wonder how people will reflect on Boris's 'oven-ready Brexit'? True, Boris was referring to the withdrawal agreement, but many would have presumed - and indeed Boris did nothing to dispel the notion - that our future economic, legal and political relationship with the EU was signed and sealed and everything would be hunky dory. A crash out might furrow a few brows.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    Scott_xP said:

    nico67 said:

    Bozo thinks it’s a good time for a photo op looking tough on the protests !

    Back to his bunker for another week, job done !

    Worst death toll

    Worst economic numbers in history

    What is BoZo's priority today?

    A fucking statue

    Like his hero...

    https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1271421033426403328

    BoZo wants a "beautiful picture" before he hides again
    You sound like Junckers after a tipple
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited June 2020
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    The thought struck me too -

    If you frame this as the “don’t mention the war” episode but don’t quote the scene about “ni**ers” and “wogs” then it obviously seems absurd. If you call it the “ni**ers and wogs episode” it might make people think. https://t.co/EQAvEVBF0K

    — Krishnan Guru-Murthy (@krishgm) June 11, 2020
    It would, but it wasn’t what the episode was about.

    I think either carrying a heavy warning at the start, or editing that particular bit out, before reinstating it would be acceptable to most.
    I don't see why there is an obligation for any broadcaster to make old shows that it no longer deems appropriate, accessible. Fans of Fawlty Towers, I guess I am kind of one, although not obsessive as I tend to be over shows I really like, have seen it countless times before, and can buy the DVD if they so wish. Until the last few years it was very unusual to be able to watch any episode, of any show, whenever you liked on tv, and if the broadcasters decide not to carry some that contain language that is even less palatable now than it was 40 years ago, so be it really, in my view.
    Yes, I think this is becoming well overblown and (worse) a distraction from the issue.

    OTOH, we do not want to be constantly and forever fiddling around with old movies and TV shows.

    OTOH, the right of everybody to have freely available on streaming the exact unadulterated original version of every old film and TV show is hardly sacrosanct.

    Let's just crack on with getting rid of some of the more dodgy statues. Still just 2 removed, as far as I know. Surely there are a few more that ought to go?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1271424592335298565

    What does Paul Waugh know about stories?

    The PB Tories will soon put him right...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited June 2020

    DougSeal said:



    What desperate rubbish. The far left has already committed violence and vandalism:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/police-chiefs-act-black-lives-matter-protests-violence-a4466821.html

    That's more than 60 police officers injured in your supposedly 'peaceful' protests!

    Compared to that, you'll forgive me if I give little weight to the supposed threats of right-wing violence, for which we have only the word of the side that has already committed violence.

    See that mass of earth flying overhead? That's the moral high ground racing away from you.

    I can easily visualise your face over your computer screen trying desperately to defend the indefensible.

    You'll forgive me if I take those statistics from the ...erm...National Police Chiefs’ Council (who say 60 officers were hurt "one way or another" - a peculiar phrasing) with a pinch of salt given the right wing disinformation campaign, of which you are a part, has invented threats of an "orgy" mass cultural destruction by BLM, and posted images of injured police officers from 2016 onwards, not related to the BLM protests, indeed being pro-Timmy Robinson protests, as being from the recent demonstrations - https://fullfact.org/online/blm-protest-london-pictures/

    Doubtless you will give as much credence to the statistics promulgated by the NPCC via the Standard as you will the claims of police brutality made by Black Protest Legal Support through the same paper? Or is is a police chiefs advocacy group more trustworthy than a black advocacy group?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/black-lives-matter-lawyers-concern-police-treatment-protesters-a4465621.html

    The truth is that the so-called "violence" of these protests, which are in fact more peaceful than many othe protests over the years, is invented by the right to detract from the ongoing public health catastrophe that evidence increasingly shows has been caused by the negligence of the government the right supports.
    'I can easily visualise your face over your computer screen trying desperately to defend the indefensible.'

    Funny, that's exactly how I picture you when you encounter someone who refuses to swallow your woke propaganda wholesale.

    I'm afraid the revolution ain't gonna fly, comrade. And yes, I do trust the police more than a movement that has already committed violence and vandalism - call me old-fashioned like that!
    Ah yes, the police, who never lie, never fit anyone up, never destroy the lives of people they think "might" have committed a crime, never do any wrong. The police in this country have killed exponentially more innocent people than BLM who have killed...who exactly in the UK?

    Anyway, it's not the police who made the claim. It's a police association. And the Black Protest Legal Support has not committed any violence or vandalism. The only thing they have in common with BLM is that they have the word "black" in the title. What is it about Black Protest Legal Support that makes you think that it has committed "violence and vandalism"? Unless of course you think that black people are, as a group, committing "violence and vandalism". Is that the case?

    This isn't Marxism, much as you would like to paint it as such, and there is no revolution. Just people trying to make sure other people treat them like human beings. And you oppose that simple thing - which is absolutely remarkable.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    UK 'formally confirms' it will not extend Brexit transition period

    https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/7UUegP

    Sent via @upday

    Seems the EU have formally accepted this decision despite Scotts wall to wall campaign to stop brexit

    And you were the guy that, once upon a time, was so adamant that we couldn’t afford to risk crashing out without a deal.
    Time for the deal now.

    No more bluffing this is real and I expect the EU to compromise under Merkel's presidency
    Lol @ ‘no more bluffing’

    Correct me if I am wrong, but you are the PB’er who spent months posting here about the evil and risks of Boris and a no deal exit, then ate your own words long enough to actually vote for Boris to be our PM, then after a few months tries to return to the position you held originally?
    Where do I say I want no deal

    The nonsense of going on forever locked in a stagnant negotiation has concluded and both sides know the end is in sight and it comes at just the time Merkel takes over the EU presidency

    I have high hopes for a September October deal

    But being a conservative you are by nature an optimist
    I agree with you. Brexiteers always said Merkel was the power behind the EU and would seal the deal, now that Merkel will be holding the EU presidency it would be absurd not to get this all dealt with now and to extend instead.

    Merkel will be happy to be responsible for getting the deal - and doing so while she holds the rotating Presidency gives her cover for not stepping on anyone else's toes.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Another journalist who has no idea what isn't a story...

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1271426028867649536
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    UK 'formally confirms' it will not extend Brexit transition period

    https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/7UUegP

    Sent via @upday

    Seems the EU have formally accepted this decision despite Scotts wall to wall campaign to stop brexit

    And you were the guy that, once upon a time, was so adamant that we couldn’t afford to risk crashing out without a deal.
    Time for the deal now.

    No more bluffing this is real and I expect the EU to compromise under Merkel's presidency
    Lol @ ‘no more bluffing’

    Correct me if I am wrong, but you are the PB’er who spent months posting here about the evil and risks of Boris and a no deal exit, then ate your own words long enough to actually vote for Boris to be our PM, then after a few months tries to return to the position you held originally?
    Where do I say I want no deal

    The nonsense of going on forever locked in a stagnant negotiation has concluded and both sides know the end is in sight and it comes at just the time Merkel takes over the EU presidency

    I have high hopes for a September October deal

    But being a conservative you are by nature an optimist
    There is equivocation here over the meaning of "no deal". No Deal, remember, was us leaving the EU with no transition period. In the end a deal was found and we avoided a no deal exit and went into a transition period.

    Then, the No Deal definition was changed to mean No Trade Deal. These are not the same things.
    No, 'No Deal' meant only WTO - and it still does.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    nico67 said:

    Bozo thinks it’s a good time for a photo op looking tough on the protests !

    Back to his bunker for another week, job done !

    Time to unleash the Thompson?


  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited June 2020

    Boris out and about in front of the cameras and not before time

    Crossover by the weekend then?
    I think it was possible, maybe still is, but I am not at all sure this last weeks events and boarding up the Cenotaph and Churchill will play well for labour
    Crossover not for a while yet. It will stabilise before the Conservatives drop like a stone later in the year.

    Temporarily boarding up the Cenotaph and Churchill monument is a sensible move from Khan to prevent an expensive repair bill. I personally abhore any criminal damage of property. I am not sure how criminal damage reflects on the Labour Party, particularly as most sensible key Labour politicians, having condemned racism have also condemned the way the Colston statue, for example, was removed.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Celebrating the prospect of disorder, chaos, pain and suffering? The new normal for Conservatives.

    Now that they've blooded themselves with tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths, they're properly warmed up for what for them is the main event.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Temporarily boarding up the Cenotaph and Churchill monument is a sensible move from Khan to prevent an expensive repair bill. I personally abhore any criminal damage of property. I am not sure how criminal damage reflects on the Labour Party, particularly as most sensible key Labour politicians, having condemned racism have also condemned the way the Colston statue, for example, was removed.

    BoZo is getting his share of the blame

    https://twitter.com/ayeshahazarika/status/1271417762498457600
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Scott_xP said:

    Another journalist who has no idea what isn't a story...

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1271426028867649536

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Fantastic news, a good day for democracy and reason. Plenty of time to nail down an agreement.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    kinabalu said:

    Surrey said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    So the strategy of dividing communities by setting up straw men of “cultural vandalism” has worked as the right brings out their Freikorps

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1271370405522010114

    The Democratic Football Lads Alliance?

    They do sound like a bunch of culture vultures.
    Divide and conquer, it's the route to power. The marxists behind BLM know it well. The pawns are attacking each other
    But who are the puppet masters pulling the strings of the DFLA* and what political philosophy do they espouse?

    * The acronym confers a little more gravitas, I feel, so I'm awarding them it for balance viz a vis BLM. "The DFLA" smacks of living rough in the forests of England, tooled up and waiting for the call. Serious business.
    Only if there's a forest between the betting shop and the pub.

    I have no idea who the DFLA's puppetmasters are but interestingly the EDL structure came out of the criminal gangs known as "football firms".
    Are the Millwall Bushwackers fundamentally opposed to all facets of Marxism?

    Or do they feel that while it has some useful insights it is not a recipe for good government in a modern European nation or indeed anywhere else?

    This is what I want to know.
    God that dates me - they were F-troop when I were a lad.

    (Not that kind of lad, obvs.)
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    UK 'formally confirms' it will not extend Brexit transition period

    https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/7UUegP

    Sent via @upday

    Seems the EU have formally accepted this decision despite Scotts wall to wall campaign to stop brexit

    And you were the guy that, once upon a time, was so adamant that we couldn’t afford to risk crashing out without a deal.
    Time for the deal now.

    No more bluffing this is real and I expect the EU to compromise under Merkel's presidency
    Lol @ ‘no more bluffing’

    Correct me if I am wrong, but you are the PB’er who spent months posting here about the evil and risks of Boris and a no deal exit, then ate your own words long enough to actually vote for Boris to be our PM, then after a few months tries to return to the position you held originally?
    Where do I say I want no deal

    The nonsense of going on forever locked in a stagnant negotiation has concluded and both sides know the end is in sight and it comes at just the time Merkel takes over the EU presidency

    I have high hopes for a September October deal

    But being a conservative you are by nature an optimist
    There is equivocation here over the meaning of "no deal". No Deal, remember, was us leaving the EU with no transition period. In the end a deal was found and we avoided a no deal exit and went into a transition period.

    Then, the No Deal definition was changed to mean No Trade Deal. These are not the same things.
    'No Deal' meant no withdrawal agreement. A good withdrawal agreement, it was proclaimed, would make a future trading relationship all the easier. The political turmoil that surrounded the WA looks like a lot of wasted energy in hindsight.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited June 2020
    IanB2 said:



    You need to pay more attention. We started with the benefit of the Italian experience to learn from, and newly elected government with very strong support. We will end with one of the worst death rates in the world.

    That is correct. We should have done better.

    However, it seems very clear from the modelling that is in the public domain from March/April that it is the scientists who screwed up. The lockdown was delayed because they thought pandemic was spreading more slowly and would peak in the Summer.

    I have a lot of sympathy for the scientists involved -- however, it does seem clear that the modelling of the early spread of the pandemic was quite wrong. The scientists on SAGE did not subject the modelling to sufficient scrutiny.

    Their error had substantial consequences.

    Hard to say what should happen -- the scientists contributed their expertise in the belief that they were helping the country, so i don't feel comfortable with blaming them -- but unfortunately they are to blame.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,702

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/12/london-sisters-nicole-smallman-bibaa-henry-murdered-stranger-police

    Nicole Smallman and Bibaa Henry had been celebrating a birthday with friends in a London park the night they were stabbed to death. The sisters had stayed behind after everyone else had left just after midnight. Now, five days after their bodies were found, detectives have said they believe they were murdered by a stranger.

    Still not sure why this isn't getting more attention in the press. It's especially worrying if this was a random attack.

    Exactly
    And yet if they were white and blue eyed and from the right school it would have been on all the front pages.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    People are going to have to get used to the idea of switching between 2m and 1m, perhaps more than once, I think.
    Quite obviously government will try to ease restriction as soon as they can - but might well have to re-impose them, if case numbers head upwards again at a later date.
    Anything but another lockdown.

    Uncertainty over 2-metre distancing rule in England 'causing chaos'
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/11/uncertainty-over-2-metre-distancing-rule-in-england-causing-chaos
    ...While retail groups say a 1-metre distance would be a boost for shops, they have expressed frustration at the lack of notice. Some council leaders, meanwhile, said confusion over the measure epitomised a chaotic central government approach to the pandemic.

    In the past few weeks, the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (MHCLG) has distributed grants from the £50m Reopening High Streets Safely Fund to councils across England, to be used on signage and barriers on streets and in shops.

    Tudor Evans, the Labour leader of Plymouth council, which has received £235,000 from the fund, said it had been used for large numbers of discs on street surfaces indicating 2-metre distances, and to help hundreds of shops prepare. These measures would need to be redone if the distance was reduced.

    “If it changes in the next few weeks it will make people angry,” Evans said. “A lot of people have sent a lot of time in the public sector, and in the private sector, to get things ready for opening up in accordance with government regulations. To have this uncertainty, this close to opening, is really an emblem for how chaotic the government’s handling has been.”

    Andrew Goodacre, the chief executive of the British Independent Retailers Association, which represents smaller shops, said any reduction would receive a mixed reception from members...

    Am I the only one who thinks that a social distance of 1m from two is sensible because it doesn’t need extensive remarking. Just put it halfway between the other markers
    The thought had occurred. :smile:
    I don't think the 2 metre guidance should be dropped for instance in the supermarket queue just because restaurant tables might be spaced closer.
    You're heading to the supermarket because you need to, the restaurant because you want to. An important distinction.
    For two and a half months we've been told that if people come closer than 2m there is a risk of infection.

    I wonder what is quite so difficult to grasp about the fact that if people think others are going to come closer than that, they are going to feel less safe and will be less likely to go to the shops.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    UK 'formally confirms' it will not extend Brexit transition period

    https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/7UUegP

    Sent via @upday

    Seems the EU have formally accepted this decision despite Scotts wall to wall campaign to stop brexit

    And you were the guy that, once upon a time, was so adamant that we couldn’t afford to risk crashing out without a deal.
    Time for the deal now.

    No more bluffing this is real and I expect the EU to compromise under Merkel's presidency
    Lol @ ‘no more bluffing’

    Correct me if I am wrong, but you are the PB’er who spent months posting here about the evil and risks of Boris and a no deal exit, then ate your own words long enough to actually vote for Boris to be our PM, then after a few months tries to return to the position you held originally?
    Where do I say I want no deal

    The nonsense of going on forever locked in a stagnant negotiation has concluded and both sides know the end is in sight and it comes at just the time Merkel takes over the EU presidency

    I have high hopes for a September October deal

    But being a conservative you are by nature an optimist
    There is equivocation here over the meaning of "no deal". No Deal, remember, was us leaving the EU with no transition period. In the end a deal was found and we avoided a no deal exit and went into a transition period.

    Then, the No Deal definition was changed to mean No Trade Deal. These are not the same things.
    No, 'No Deal' meant only WTO - and it still does.
    No, No Deal meant more than that.

    The current Deal accepts the divorce payments, right to remain of UK and EU citizens, and the Irish protocol puts Customs in the Irish Sea. It is a lot more than just WTO going forward.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Scott_xP said:

    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
    I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet. :wink:
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    UK 'formally confirms' it will not extend Brexit transition period

    https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/7UUegP

    Sent via @upday

    Seems the EU have formally accepted this decision despite Scotts wall to wall campaign to stop brexit

    And you were the guy that, once upon a time, was so adamant that we couldn’t afford to risk crashing out without a deal.
    Time for the deal now.

    No more bluffing this is real and I expect the EU to compromise under Merkel's presidency
    Lol @ ‘no more bluffing’

    Correct me if I am wrong, but you are the PB’er who spent months posting here about the evil and risks of Boris and a no deal exit, then ate your own words long enough to actually vote for Boris to be our PM, then after a few months tries to return to the position you held originally?
    Where do I say I want no deal

    The nonsense of going on forever locked in a stagnant negotiation has concluded and both sides know the end is in sight and it comes at just the time Merkel takes over the EU presidency

    I have high hopes for a September October deal

    But being a conservative you are by nature an optimist
    There is equivocation here over the meaning of "no deal". No Deal, remember, was us leaving the EU with no transition period. In the end a deal was found and we avoided a no deal exit and went into a transition period.

    Then, the No Deal definition was changed to mean No Trade Deal. These are not the same things.
    No, 'No Deal' meant only WTO - and it still does.
    No, No Deal meant more than that.

    The current Deal accepts the divorce payments, right to remain of UK and EU citizens, and the Irish protocol puts Customs in the Irish Sea. It is a lot more than just WTO going forward.
    Yep No Deal is just about the worst of all possible outcomes, it's the one were everyone gets to dictate exactly what we can and can't do.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    Celebrating the prospect of disorder, chaos, pain and suffering? The new normal for Conservatives.

    Now that they've blooded themselves with tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths, they're properly warmed up for what for them is the main event.
    We will leave the EU? Haven't we left?
    It is @RochdalePioneers magic bullet.
    We leave the EU things will get better.
    We left the EU and they haven't.
    Obviously therefore we haven't left.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
    Why don't you just retweet some more nonsense? It was super effective in stopping both Brexit and Boris after all...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    edited June 2020
    This already feels like the Summer of Sam but potentially there is a serial killer on the lose in London, and Im surprised by the lack of press attention. Perhaps for the media and protesters black lives don't really matter as much as getting rid of statues.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53023036
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Andy_JS said:
    Can't afford to lose at the moment, but that is an interesting comparion with his ~40% chance of the presidency.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Short and to the point https://twitter.com/TheScepticIsle/status/1271429741107650561

    It's what I've spent the last 18 months planning for.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited June 2020

    It would, but it wasn’t what the episode was about.

    I think either carrying a heavy warning at the start, or editing that particular bit out, before reinstating it would be acceptable to most.

    Exactly. It was not what the episode was about but it WAS why the episode was being flagged as needing (as you say and I agree) an edit or a warning. Which btw had already been done years ago - just that UKTV were behind the curve.

    So the trouble was, the way the story was presented - Fawlty Towers 'Don't Mention The War' episode to be pulled - means lots of people got the idea that Political Correctness had gorn sooo mad we would no longer be allowed to watch Basil and his hilarious German shenanigans.

    And I bet you loads of people still think that. Because the likes of Nigel Farage will certainly not be dis-abusing them of it.

    And so it goes. On and on and on and on.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Brom said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
    I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet. :wink:
    If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    This article, around three months old, has aged pretty well.

    I’m an epidemiologist. When I heard about Britain’s ‘herd immunity’ coronavirus plan, I thought it was satire
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/15/epidemiologist-britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-19
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    edited June 2020
    Tres said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/12/london-sisters-nicole-smallman-bibaa-henry-murdered-stranger-police

    Nicole Smallman and Bibaa Henry had been celebrating a birthday with friends in a London park the night they were stabbed to death. The sisters had stayed behind after everyone else had left just after midnight. Now, five days after their bodies were found, detectives have said they believe they were murdered by a stranger.

    Still not sure why this isn't getting more attention in the press. It's especially worrying if this was a random attack.

    Exactly
    And yet if they were white and blue eyed and from the right school it would have been on all the front pages.
    When would it have been on all the front pages? Not for any of the days when there was nothing to report. ETA and they are both adults so schools (which are closed anyway) have nothing to do with it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    https://twitter.com/JacqEHoward/status/1271159896919203841?s=19

    Not a solution for everybody, but for a previously fit twenty something female...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Scott_xP said:

    Temporarily boarding up the Cenotaph and Churchill monument is a sensible move from Khan to prevent an expensive repair bill. I personally abhore any criminal damage of property. I am not sure how criminal damage reflects on the Labour Party, particularly as most sensible key Labour politicians, having condemned racism have also condemned the way the Colston statue, for example, was removed.

    BoZo is getting his share of the blame

    https://twitter.com/ayeshahazarika/status/1271417762498457600
    When I saw the tweet was from Richard Tice, I felt a moment of solidarity with Johnson.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    Chris said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    People are going to have to get used to the idea of switching between 2m and 1m, perhaps more than once, I think.
    Quite obviously government will try to ease restriction as soon as they can - but might well have to re-impose them, if case numbers head upwards again at a later date.
    Anything but another lockdown.

    Uncertainty over 2-metre distancing rule in England 'causing chaos'
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/11/uncertainty-over-2-metre-distancing-rule-in-england-causing-chaos
    ...While retail groups say a 1-metre distance would be a boost for shops, they have expressed frustration at the lack of notice. Some council leaders, meanwhile, said confusion over the measure epitomised a chaotic central government approach to the pandemic.

    In the past few weeks, the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (MHCLG) has distributed grants from the £50m Reopening High Streets Safely Fund to councils across England, to be used on signage and barriers on streets and in shops.

    Tudor Evans, the Labour leader of Plymouth council, which has received £235,000 from the fund, said it had been used for large numbers of discs on street surfaces indicating 2-metre distances, and to help hundreds of shops prepare. These measures would need to be redone if the distance was reduced.

    “If it changes in the next few weeks it will make people angry,” Evans said. “A lot of people have sent a lot of time in the public sector, and in the private sector, to get things ready for opening up in accordance with government regulations. To have this uncertainty, this close to opening, is really an emblem for how chaotic the government’s handling has been.”

    Andrew Goodacre, the chief executive of the British Independent Retailers Association, which represents smaller shops, said any reduction would receive a mixed reception from members...

    Am I the only one who thinks that a social distance of 1m from two is sensible because it doesn’t need extensive remarking. Just put it halfway between the other markers
    The thought had occurred. :smile:
    I don't think the 2 metre guidance should be dropped for instance in the supermarket queue just because restaurant tables might be spaced closer.
    You're heading to the supermarket because you need to, the restaurant because you want to. An important distinction.
    For two and a half months we've been told that if people come closer than 2m there is a risk of infection.

    I wonder what is quite so difficult to grasp about the fact that if people think others are going to come closer than that, they are going to feel less safe and will be less likely to go to the shops.
    Exactly, and it is also both true (on the basis of research) and self-evidently so.

    What too many people, and especiallyu the apologists for the Tory MPs, forget is that air currents modify the actual risk beyond what has already been reported. Even indoors, 1m is a lot less safe than 2m. The relative risk may be variable, but I'm not going to risk my life to some publican or shopkeeper's dodgy aircon or someone opening the door.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    edited June 2020
    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
    I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet. :wink:
    If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
    Why do you expect things to remain as they were - they won't as the EU will do everything they can to score points and make things difficult where they can...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Scott_xP said:

    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
    Why don't you just retweet some more nonsense? It was super effective in stopping both Brexit and Boris after all...
    Hopefully the secondary schools will open soon, so you can take your petty trolling back to the playground where it belongs.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
    I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet. :wink:
    If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
    How mad must those 10 billion people who marched against it and all the FBPE fanatics on twitter be then if they're getting angry over nothing? You should probably tell James O'Brien too while you're at it that nothing is changing.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Andy_JS said:
    That's a spectacular lay.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    UK 'formally confirms' it will not extend Brexit transition period

    https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/7UUegP

    Sent via @upday

    Seems the EU have formally accepted this decision despite Scotts wall to wall campaign to stop brexit

    And you were the guy that, once upon a time, was so adamant that we couldn’t afford to risk crashing out without a deal.
    Time for the deal now.

    No more bluffing this is real and I expect the EU to compromise under Merkel's presidency
    Lol @ ‘no more bluffing’

    Correct me if I am wrong, but you are the PB’er who spent months posting here about the evil and risks of Boris and a no deal exit, then ate your own words long enough to actually vote for Boris to be our PM, then after a few months tries to return to the position you held originally?
    Where do I say I want no deal

    The nonsense of going on forever locked in a stagnant negotiation has concluded and both sides know the end is in sight and it comes at just the time Merkel takes over the EU presidency

    I have high hopes for a September October deal

    But being a conservative you are by nature an optimist
    There is equivocation here over the meaning of "no deal". No Deal, remember, was us leaving the EU with no transition period. In the end a deal was found and we avoided a no deal exit and went into a transition period.

    Then, the No Deal definition was changed to mean No Trade Deal. These are not the same things.
    No, 'No Deal' meant only WTO - and it still does.
    No, No Deal meant more than that.

    The current Deal accepts the divorce payments, right to remain of UK and EU citizens, and the Irish protocol puts Customs in the Irish Sea. It is a lot more than just WTO going forward.
    Wasn't "the divorce payments, right to remain of UK and EU citizens, and the Irish protocol puts Customs in the Irish Sea" in the 'Withdrawal Aggreement'?
    No Deal means what we have if the UK and EU don't reach a deal, i.e. WTO.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.

    https://twitter.com/bsgorrie/status/1271425180875833344?s=20
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Looking into the middle distance, lawyers are going very cool on the idea of commuting into offices, both now and in the medium term:

    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-five-out-ten-lawyers-want-work-home-good

    I really wouldn't like to be invested in commercial property for the while.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    Foxy said:

    https://twitter.com/JacqEHoward/status/1271159896919203841?s=19

    Not a solution for everybody, but for a previously fit twenty something female...

    Bad news for the donor, we must not forget. RIP.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2020

    Scott_xP said:

    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
    Why don't you just retweet some more nonsense? It was super effective in stopping both Brexit and Boris after all...
    Hopefully the secondary schools will open soon, so you can take your petty trolling back to the playground where it belongs.
    Uh-huh. I actually bother to make a reasoned argument in my own words as opposed to just reposting hundreds of smears off Twitter as certain posters do. That kind of petty trolling barely passes the Turing Test!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
    I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet. :wink:
    If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
    Then you must have no concerns about Brexit then? What was the big deal?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.

    https://twitter.com/bsgorrie/status/1271425180875833344?s=20

    There's a certain sort of old man who has never stopped playing with his woggle.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    Brom said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Another journalist who has no idea what isn't a story...

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1271426028867649536

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.
    You do realise he was posting about Covid-19 and Cummings, don't you?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
    I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet. :wink:
    If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
    Why do you expect things to remain as they were - they won't as the EU will do everything they can to score points and make things difficult where they can...
    They will force on us terms which we will no longer have a say in. That much is obvious. Our U-turn today is one such of those conditions.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.

    https://twitter.com/bsgorrie/status/1271425180875833344?s=20

    I did suggest a group Antifa/Riot police skit amongst my friends at Amecon one year.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680

    We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.

    https://twitter.com/bsgorrie/status/1271425180875833344?s=20

    There's a certain sort of old man who has never stopped playing with his woggle.
    Are they actual Scouts or part of that breakaway movement from a few decades ago, the one that saw retaining short trousers as a major issue?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316

    Foxy said:

    https://twitter.com/JacqEHoward/status/1271159896919203841?s=19

    Not a solution for everybody, but for a previously fit twenty something female...

    Bad news for the donor, we must not forget. RIP.
    Extra bonus: A picture of the state of her original lungs. (Look down the replies for some pictures of what a healthy lung used in an organ transplant looks like.)

    https://twitter.com/tmprowell/status/1271054835702468609

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:
    Segregation eh? Look where this is going
    They're now scared they're gonna get the shit kicked out of them. As they will, eventually. The mood out there is murderous, I have leftwing friends demanding the blood of protestors.

    Weirdly, it seems to be the TV stuff, that has pushed people over the edge.
    What an odd post. You either dreampt that first paragraph, or you have some peculiar leftwing friends.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Brom said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Another journalist who has no idea what isn't a story...

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1271426028867649536

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.
    You do realise he was posting about Covid-19 and Cummings, don't you?
    Because he's a fanatic who can't get over the fact that Cummings won and he lost the Brexit referendum, not because he actually cares about COVID19.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited June 2020

    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
    I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet. :wink:
    If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
    Then you must have no concerns about Brexit then? What was the big deal?
    It has already cost billions. I don't think much will change save for us being poorer. Not in all probability catastrophically so, but poorer. 2p on beer and fags. No one notices, largely, but people have less money.

    Billions also in foregone FDI; billions in plans that may or may not be needed.

    A huge opportunity cost but most Leavers are too dim to understand the concept of opportunity cost.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Pulpstar said:

    We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.

    https://twitter.com/bsgorrie/status/1271425180875833344?s=20

    I did suggest a group Antifa/Riot police skit amongst my friends at Amecon one year.
    A bit risky in today's climate, you could get pile ins from both sides of the divide.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Brom said:

    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
    I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet. :wink:
    If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
    How mad must those 10 billion people who marched against it and all the FBPE fanatics on twitter be then if they're getting angry over nothing? You should probably tell James O'Brien too while you're at it that nothing is changing.
    As mentioned, the terms of our trade and relations will not change too much, save for everything will henceforth be done on the EU's terms (witness the u-turn today).

    And the opportunity cost has been huge but as I said, Leavers don't generally deal in concepts and I suppose if they can't drop it on their foot it doesn't really exist.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.

    https://twitter.com/bsgorrie/status/1271425180875833344?s=20

    There's a certain sort of old man who has never stopped playing with his woggle.
    Are they actual Scouts or part of that breakaway movement from a few decades ago, the one that saw retaining short trousers as a major issue?
    I wondered about that too, but the official movement does allow 'navy blue shorts' if the unit in question wishes. So I'm not sure.

    https://www.scouts.org.uk/por/10-uniform-badges-and-emblems/#10.14
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Surrey said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    So the strategy of dividing communities by setting up straw men of “cultural vandalism” has worked as the right brings out their Freikorps

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1271370405522010114

    The Democratic Football Lads Alliance?

    They do sound like a bunch of culture vultures.
    Divide and conquer, it's the route to power. The marxists behind BLM know it well. The pawns are attacking each other
    But who are the puppet masters pulling the strings of the DFLA* and what political philosophy do they espouse?

    * The acronym confers a little more gravitas, I feel, so I'm awarding them it for balance viz a vis BLM. "The DFLA" smacks of living rough in the forests of England, tooled up and waiting for the call. Serious business.
    Only if there's a forest between the betting shop and the pub.

    I have no idea who the DFLA's puppetmasters are but interestingly the EDL structure came out of the criminal gangs known as "football firms".
    Are the Millwall Bushwackers fundamentally opposed to all facets of Marxism?

    Or do they feel that while it has some useful insights it is not a recipe for good government in a modern European nation or indeed anywhere else?

    This is what I want to know.
    God that dates me - they were F-troop when I were a lad.

    (Not that kind of lad, obvs.)
    Yes. Name change. But for cosmetic reasons only. Retained all the essentials.

    Just like Marathon to Snickers. :smile:
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    eadric said:

    <

    If you an expert and your expertise earns you money, power or prestige, then you must equally accept the blame, and suffer adverse consequences, when your so-called expertise is proven to be anything but.

    These scientists got it badly wrong. Their careers should end, and they should be replaced by better scientists.

    Let's start with Jonathan "masks are useless" Van Tam.

    Van Tam is employed by the NHS as Deputy Chief Medical Officer (I think)

    Scientists employed by Universities (most of SAGE) don't have to work for SAGE.

    The Govt can't "end the careers" of the scientists like Neil Ferguson because he is not employed by the Govt.

    The kind of retribution you are proposing means that your Government will end up with no scientific advice.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.

    https://twitter.com/bsgorrie/status/1271425180875833344?s=20

    What a pair of twats.

    I am going to Aldi on a horse dressed as Subcomandante Marcos.

    This country has driven itself insane.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Just as well I have a 2.30pm meeting.

    :smile:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    First they came for our choke holds...

    https://twitter.com/France24_en/status/1271371929509695488
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.

    https://twitter.com/bsgorrie/status/1271425180875833344?s=20

    There's a certain sort of old man who has never stopped playing with his woggle.
    I was never a scout as a boy as my dad didn't approve of the militarism and jingoism, but I think it has moved away from all that over recent decades. Fox Jr enjoyed it, and even became Troop Leader.

    BP was a man of his time, and much of his philosophy hasn't aged well.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.

    https://twitter.com/bsgorrie/status/1271425180875833344?s=20

    Shades of PG Wodehouse teasing Spodes' black trousers brigade
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
    I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet. :wink:
    If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
    How mad must those 10 billion people who marched against it and all the FBPE fanatics on twitter be then if they're getting angry over nothing? You should probably tell James O'Brien too while you're at it that nothing is changing.
    As mentioned, the terms of our trade and relations will not change too much, save for everything will henceforth be done on the EU's terms (witness the u-turn today).

    And the opportunity cost has been huge but as I said, Leavers don't generally deal in concepts and I suppose if they can't drop it on their foot it doesn't really exist.
    I think the opposite will happen and remain confident the UK will outgrow the Eurozone over the course of this decade.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Nigelb said:
    If Ms second from right gets le boot from the gendarmerie at least she has a career in Greta's house of Correction.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    eadric said:

    kinabalu said:

    It would, but it wasn’t what the episode was about.

    I think either carrying a heavy warning at the start, or editing that particular bit out, before reinstating it would be acceptable to most.

    Exactly. It was not what the episode was about but it WAS why the episode was being flagged as needing (as you say and I agree) an edit or a warning. Which btw had already been done years ago - just that UKTV were behind the curve.

    So the trouble was, the way the story was presented - Fawlty Towers 'Don't Mention The War' episode to be pulled - means lots of people got the idea that Political Correctness had gorn sooo mad we would no longer be allowed to watch Basil and his hilarious German shenanigans.

    And I bet you loads of people still think that. Because the likes of Nigel Farage will certainly not be dis-abusing them of it.

    And so it goes. On and on and on and on.
    It was a brilliant piece of news management by the Imperial Overlords Matter right. Get the BLM fools to over-reach, or get their fellow travellers to over-react, then make sure the over-reaction is seen in the worst possible light.

    Whatever the truth, everyone now thinks the most loved Fawlty Towers episode in the universe was pulled because idiotic and hysterical lefties thought it was nasty to Germans, and also because they BLMers just hate humour.

    Superb.
    Would you even describe editing the episode as an overreaction?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.

    But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
    Not a leaver, but will hold my hand up to say I thought we would quietly agree an extension. Overall I'm starting to think I've seriously overestimated the competence of this government.
    I am pretty certain there will be no extension but also no "WTO" Brexit.

    I expect an "interim deal" by the year-end which keeps things closely aligned into 2021, with suitable wording about "selective divergence" being on the table for future negotiation.

    An extension without an extension in other words.

    I suspect now that the government will largely fold, as it did in 2019. This will be proclaimed a triumph, as it was in 2019. The difference is that Tory MPs will have more time to absorb what has been agreed to.
    A virtual certainty imo.

    And I think Johnson can sell it so long as FM is (at least technically) ended.
  • TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brom said:

    Oh Scott, you tried your best but you lost.

    Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.

    But you're a winner...
    I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet. :wink:
    If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
    How mad must those 10 billion people who marched against it and all the FBPE fanatics on twitter be then if they're getting angry over nothing? You should probably tell James O'Brien too while you're at it that nothing is changing.
    As mentioned, the terms of our trade and relations will not change too much, save for everything will henceforth be done on the EU's terms (witness the u-turn today).

    And the opportunity cost has been huge but as I said, Leavers don't generally deal in concepts and I suppose if they can't drop it on their foot it doesn't really exist.
    I think the opposite will happen and remain confident the UK will outgrow the Eurozone over the course of this decade.
    With no external tarrif barrier the UK's home industries will be undermind by cheaper competitors abroad. Without the ability to set its own tarrifs the UK is now naked from an international trade perspective.

    Great if you like cheap Prosecco and BMWs, bad if you like UK manufactered equivalents and disastrous if you work in those industries.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.

    But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
    Not a leaver, but will hold my hand up to say I thought we would quietly agree an extension. Overall I'm starting to think I've seriously overestimated the competence of this government.
    I am pretty certain there will be no extension but also no "WTO" Brexit.

    I expect an "interim deal" by the year-end which keeps things closely aligned into 2021, with suitable wording about "selective divergence" being on the table for future negotiation.

    An extension without an extension in other words.

    I suspect now that the government will largely fold, as it did in 2019. This will be proclaimed a triumph, as it was in 2019. The difference is that Tory MPs will have more time to absorb what has been agreed to.
    A virtual certainty imo.

    And I think Johnson can sell it so long as FM is (at least technically) ended.
    I bloody well hope we do fold ! The alternative of WTO tariffs with the EU whole world will beggar us beyond belief.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    Foxy said:

    We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.

    https://twitter.com/bsgorrie/status/1271425180875833344?s=20

    There's a certain sort of old man who has never stopped playing with his woggle.
    I was never a scout as a boy as my dad didn't approve of the militarism and jingoism, but I think it has moved away from all that over recent decades. Fox Jr enjoyed it, and even became Troop Leader.

    BP was a man of his time, and much of his philosophy hasn't aged well.
    The Cub Scouts had a requirement to keep a Royal Family scrapbook. I remember an Akela whom I knew admitting to me that that wasn't aging very well either in the late 1980s with the news of thje RF's indiscretions. No idea if they still have to do it.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.

    https://twitter.com/bsgorrie/status/1271425180875833344?s=20

    Shades of PG Wodehouse teasing Spodes' black trousers brigade
    Why do they have nooses around their necks?
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.

    But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
    Not a leaver, but will hold my hand up to say I thought we would quietly agree an extension. Overall I'm starting to think I've seriously overestimated the competence of this government.
    I am pretty certain there will be no extension but also no "WTO" Brexit.

    I expect an "interim deal" by the year-end which keeps things closely aligned into 2021, with suitable wording about "selective divergence" being on the table for future negotiation.

    An extension without an extension in other words.

    I suspect now that the government will largely fold, as it did in 2019. This will be proclaimed a triumph, as it was in 2019. The difference is that Tory MPs will have more time to absorb what has been agreed to.
    A virtual certainty imo.

    And I think Johnson can sell it so long as FM is (at least technically) ended.
    The government U-turn on external tariffs does point in that direction. Its a shame that while they are as brain-dead as a I thought they were they are far more cowardly. Hobbling along under the same trading terms but without the membership blinds the public to the true situation.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    <

    If you an expert and your expertise earns you money, power or prestige, then you must equally accept the blame, and suffer adverse consequences, when your so-called expertise is proven to be anything but.

    These scientists got it badly wrong. Their careers should end, and they should be replaced by better scientists.

    Let's start with Jonathan "masks are useless" Van Tam.

    Van Tam is employed by the NHS as Deputy Chief Medical Officer (I think)

    Scientists employed by Universities (most of SAGE) don't have to work for SAGE.

    The Govt can't "end the careers" of the scientists like Neil Ferguson because he is not employed by the Govt.

    The kind of retribution you are proposing means that your Government will end up with no scientific advice.
    Then let him be ritually disgraced in a public square, and smeared with dung. 60,000 have died. If the politicians are going to shoulder blame, and they should, then so must the advisers who got it so wrong.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Van-Tam


    It's notable that Van Tam is an expert in.... influenza. That's his whole life's work: influenza, and the breeding, spreading, treatment and containment thereof.

    One of the major flaws in our handling of this virus from the start was the presumption that it was another form of influenza.

    He really is one of the guilty men.
    Inb fairness, it might be the other way round - they decided influenza was the model du jour and picked him on that basis.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.

    https://twitter.com/bsgorrie/status/1271425180875833344?s=20

    Shades of PG Wodehouse teasing Spodes' black trousers brigade
    Why do they have nooses around their necks?
    Whistles.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Please cool it. This thread has got very bad tempered and not in the normal spirit of PB. I don't want to start slapping bans on people but I will do if this continues

    Wow! What have I missed???
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited June 2020
    Rapper Gucci Mane has claimed he is leaving his longtime label, Atlantic Records, calling them "polite racist". In a message posted on Twitter, he also branded the label's employees "crackers" - a disparaging term for white people.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53020594

    "Disparaging term", is that a bit like 27 police injured at a peaceful protest. Its a racist term, simple as.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:
    Segregation eh? Look where this is going
    They're now scared they're gonna get the shit kicked out of them. As they will, eventually. The mood out there is murderous, I have leftwing friends demanding the blood of protestors.

    Weirdly, it seems to be the TV stuff, that has pushed people over the edge.
    What an odd post. You either dreampt that first paragraph, or you have some peculiar leftwing friends.
    I received a long ranting email this morning, and several similar frothing Whatsapp messages last night. All lefties.

    Hopefully its all froth and hot air. We don't want to see that kind of behaviour from anyone this weekend.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    CatMan said:
    A rare example of TV comedy that has aged well. It is not as if we didn't know what was going on in those days.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Moment hero workmen and Deliveroo rider pin suspect to the ground after Hasidic Jew in his 50s is stabbed on London street

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8414225/Hasidic-Jewish-man-stabbed-hate-crime-North-London.html
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited June 2020

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Unless it turns out that his illness has caused him to be permanently disabled, Boris isn't going anywhere, despite the wishful thinking of his opponents. Yes, Covid and its after-effects are going to make the next couple of years a nightmare across the Western world, but that’s unavoidable whoever the leader is, and there’s plenty of opportunity to get back to a semblance of good times by 2024.

    As for ephemeral polls, the current orgy of cultural vandalism has interrupted Labour’s rise as the public wakes up to what the fuck they may be voting into power, as yesterday’s Survation suggests...

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1271057897196306433

    One solitary statue of a mass murderer gets unlawfully taken down, the rightists of PB call it an “orgy of cultural vandalism” and imply the Labour Party is to blame. In the meantime, we will have around 60,000 excess deaths as a result of the Government’s muddled response, more than any comparable country on an aggregate or per capita basis, and the worst economic downturn in the industrialised world, but that’s “unavoidable whoever the leader is”. In the words of one commentator here “you couldn’t make it up”.
    One solitary statue taken down by a violent mob explicitly celebrated by Labour MP Nadia Whittome:

    https://twitter.com/NadiaWhittomeMP/status/1269732031128383490

    Note her exact words about a future Labour Government:

    'I celebrate these acts of resistance.'

    'We need a movement that will tear down systemic racism and the slave owner statues that symbolise it. And we need to win a government that will always be on the side of this movement.'

    The statue's vandals have published a hit list of dozens more across the country to destroy, and they've already defaced many more, including Churchill, Lincoln, and Gandhi.

    Meanwhile, Labour mayors and councils across the country are jumping at the opportunity to 'review' their local monuments, and in the case of Sadiq Khan, to just send in the JCBs as he did with Milligan.

    I'm afraid the facts speak for themselves about the left's intentions.
    And I’m afraid the numbers speak for themselves as to the number of people your party has negligently allowed to die these last three months. Are you on the side of living humans or statues? The impression you give is that you give more of a damn about chunks of metal celebrating mass murderers like Coulson and Milligan than the people of this country. But I am sure that is not the case.
    I'm sure the eventual public inquiry will establish exactly what occurred in this unprecendented global pandemic and the extent to which deaths could or could not have been avoided. Of course, you have all the answers now, thanks to your handy time machine.

    'Living humans or statues' isn't a mutually-exclusive choice, by the way. One can want to save as many lives as possible from the pandemic, as the Government is doing, while deploring the violence and cultural vandalism of the far left. People have noticed what they're about, and it doesn't look as though they like it...
    You base your entire paranoid polemic on one tweet from one Labour MP and a single Survation Poll that still shows your party’s support far more than halved in a month. As for “time machine” - you forget I borrowed yours, you know the one you use to predict elections? In the meantime the below tweets represent the actual views of the Labour Party - and most people in this country

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1269949806463668224

    https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1269919037426929664

    David Lammy has - to my amazement - won my respect on this occasion. He explicitly said that he doesn't condone violence and riots AND that he would not march with BLM because that would make him a hypocrite after criticizing Cummings.

    As for Starmer, on the other hand, actions speak louder than words. Two days after the illegal actions of that mob, he and dozens of Labour MPs put out photos of themselves kneeling in support of the protesters.

    If they didn't mean to lend their implicit support to illegal acts of violence then literally kneeling before a movement that had perpetrated them very publicly a couple of days earlier was a funny way of showing it...
    They were kneeling in support of a movement protesting the racist torture murder of a black civilian by the police of our closest ally. That is what the protests are about, not some imagined “cultural vandalism”, which is a straw man minor by product emphasised by people such as yourself to divert attention from the real issues that need highlighting. But of course you place an equivalence on preserving the memory of the dead enslavers of Black people rather than the actual lives of their living descendants.
    There is literally no comparison between the US and UK on this score, so importing the context of their racial conflicts to this country makes absolutely no sense. Here are the figures to prove it:

    Since 1870, police forces in Great Britain have killed 220 people. Three of them were in 2019, and one in 2018.

    In the US, in 2019, 1,098 people were killed by police. That's 5x as many deaths caused by police in 2019 as in the last 150 years in the UK!

    Funny how the USA is suddenly our 'closest ally' for lefties when they want to import their cultural conflicts, but they want absolutely nothing to do with them at any other time...


    "Taking the knee" is an alternative to violent protest. The fact that Colin Kaepernick tried it and lost his career means that some people have gone further because, clearly, it didn't work. The actions of Starmer et al are, if anything, an attempt to encourage people to undertake less violent forms of protest by going back to an earlier stage.
    You can peacefully protest what happens on Mars for all I care. It's when the protesters turn violent, assault the police, and commit criminal damage that it becomes illicit - as is now clearly the case.

    'between 1990 and 2014 380 deaths in police custody in England and Wales (or as a result of contact with the police were reported), 69 were from BME communities – 18%'

    Otherwise known as fewer than 3 individuals per year in the latter group. There should be obviously be as few deaths in police custody as possible, but those figures are no reason for nationwide unrest.

    'The actions of Starmer et al are, if anything, an attempt to encourage people to undertake less violent forms of protest by going back to an earlier stage'

    That's some heroic spin indeed. Tell me, if a mob of Brexiteers had destroyed an EU monument - and put out a list of dozens more targets they intended to destroy - and then Boris and dozens of Conservative MPs had put out photos of themselves kneeling in support of the Brexiteers, would your interpretation be as generous?

    Somehow I think not.
    Deaths at police hands are unusual in this country, and deaths at police hands where the police officers concerned have committed a crime are very unusual. The officer who killed Azelle Rodney was prosecuted for murder and acquitted. Having read about the case, I don't think the officer gunned the man down just because he was black.
    I wonder in ths same period how many black people under 25 have been killed by black people under 25. I am still struggling with the concept of the BLM movement when they never mention black people killing black people. The murders at the weekend were just ignored.
    You "struggle with the concept" of an anti-racism movement that concentrates on highlighting racism?
    I struggle with the concept of an organisation called Black Lives Matter than isn't really about black lives mattering.

    If it was about black lives mattering would actually be asking the police to come down far more heavily on the black people cutting a swathe through black communities of America in a well documented explosion of violence and murder that far outweighs anything anybody in the white community could do,

    Instead black lives matter is facilitating the acceleration of that explosion by what we see in Mineapolis and Seattle. Chicago too. The protests coincided with a bloodbath of black on black murders there last week end.
    Then I guess your mind would cope a little easier if they were called "Against White Cops Murdering Black Men."

    Something like that. More specific. More literal. More auditable even.

    I'll let them know.
  • Because they have no choice: the facilites and staff aren't there and won't be in time.

    They can either attempt to charge tarrifs and watch the products rot in the queue or wave them through.

    They chose the latter, sensibly as a starving population probably isn't very interested in the minutiae of tarriff agreements but thanks to WTO MFN rules they now must wave through ALL cargo at ports and so no tarrifs will be collected and there will be no controls over what comes in.

    So the full slogan was "(Let the French) Take Back Control (of your borders)"
This discussion has been closed.