It's had many ripples outward but the problem at the heart of the recent unrest was the fact that Derek Chauvin knelt on a subdued suspect (FLoyd)'s neck for 8 minutes and 34 seconds. That's not some split second fight or flight response, he had plenty of time to cuff Floyd. It's one of the most disgusting killings I've seen in years. It's completely indefensible, and my instinct is always to defend the police having never known an uncle who was murdered whilst on active duty.
Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?
I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
I expect a deal will be done because Bozo knows the right wing press will big up anything with his name attached to it and he can just rebrand another capitulation as the best deal ever.
It's had many ripples outward but the problem at the heart of the recent unrest was the fact that Derek Chauvin knelt on a subdued suspect (FLoyd)'s neck for 8 minutes and 34 seconds. That's not some split second fight or flight response, he had plenty of time to cuff Floyd. It's one of the most disgusting killings I've seen in years. It's completely indefensible, and my instinct is always to defend the police having never known an uncle who was murdered whilst on active duty.
Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?
I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
If past events are anything to go by, he'll be retiring on a full pension. The whole police system in the US is corrupt.
I don't think he will be. Not this time.
*If* Chauvin gets jail time, unless they find some facility full of white collar minor offenders, serving his sentence will be something of a shit show.
I do wish we knew how many people we've tested though ^^;;;;;
We ought to be able to split to "positive test", "negative test", "test not yet returned", "test returned, not yet analysed", "inconclusive test"
We do, more or less. It's just there's been a little doublecounting, supposedly 2/3% or so, because there are so many testing bodies involved: 4 national health services, multiple testing routes for each, some public, some private, with the usual problems around data privacy probably not helping.
Worth pointing out that for many countries you don't get a breakdown of testing data - for example, Germany produces total number of tests, once a week, with just a note saying they do multiple tests/person (as does every country).
Unless it turns out that his illness has caused him to be permanently disabled, Boris isn't going anywhere, despite the wishful thinking of his opponents. Yes, Covid and its after-effects are going to make the next couple of years a nightmare across the Western world, but that’s unavoidable whoever the leader is, and there’s plenty of opportunity to get back to a semblance of good times by 2024.
As for ephemeral polls, the current orgy of cultural vandalism has interrupted Labour’s rise as the public wakes up to what the fuck they may be voting into power, as yesterday’s Survation suggests...
One solitary statue of a mass murderer gets unlawfully taken down, the rightists of PB call it an “orgy of cultural vandalism” and imply the Labour Party is to blame. In the meantime, we will have around 60,000 excess deaths as a result of the Government’s muddled response, more than any comparable country on an aggregate or per capita basis, and the worst economic downturn in the industrialised world, but that’s “unavoidable whoever the leader is”. In the words of one commentator here “you couldn’t make it up”.
One solitary statue taken down by a violent mob explicitly celebrated by Labour MP Nadia Whittome:
Note her exact words about a future Labour Government:
'I celebrate these acts of resistance.'
'We need a movement that will tear down systemic racism and the slave owner statues that symbolise it. And we need to win a government that will always be on the side of this movement.'
The statue's vandals have published a hit list of dozens more across the country to destroy, and they've already defaced many more, including Churchill, Lincoln, and Gandhi.
Meanwhile, Labour mayors and councils across the country are jumping at the opportunity to 'review' their local monuments, and in the case of Sadiq Khan, to just send in the JCBs as he did with Milligan.
I'm afraid the facts speak for themselves about the left's intentions.
And I’m afraid the numbers speak for themselves as to the number of people your party has negligently allowed to die these last three months. Are you on the side of living humans or statues? The impression you give is that you give more of a damn about chunks of metal celebrating mass murderers like Coulson and Milligan than the people of this country. But I am sure that is not the case.
I'm sure the eventual public inquiry will establish exactly what occurred in this unprecendented global pandemic and the extent to which deaths could or could not have been avoided. Of course, you have all the answers now, thanks to your handy time machine.
'Living humans or statues' isn't a mutually-exclusive choice, by the way. One can want to save as many lives as possible from the pandemic, as the Government is doing, while deploring the violence and cultural vandalism of the far left. People have noticed what they're about, and it doesn't look as though they like it...
You base your entire paranoid polemic on one tweet from one Labour MP and a single Survation Poll that still shows your party’s support far more than halved in a month. As for “time machine” - you forget I borrowed yours, you know the one you use to predict elections? In the meantime the below tweets represent the actual views of the Labour Party - and most people in this country
David Lammy has - to my amazement - won my respect on this occasion. He explicitly said that he doesn't condone violence and riots AND that he would not march with BLM because that would make him a hypocrite after criticizing Cummings.
As for Starmer, on the other hand, actions speak louder than words. Two days after the illegal actions of that mob, he and dozens of Labour MPs put out photos of themselves kneeling in support of the protesters.
If they didn't mean to lend their implicit support to illegal acts of violence then literally kneeling before a movement that had perpetrated them very publicly a couple of days earlier was a funny way of showing it...
It's had many ripples outward but the problem at the heart of the recent unrest was the fact that Derek Chauvin knelt on a subdued suspect (FLoyd)'s neck for 8 minutes and 34 seconds. That's not some split second fight or flight response, he had plenty of time to cuff Floyd. It's one of the most disgusting killings I've seen in years. It's completely indefensible, and my instinct is always to defend the police having never known an uncle who was murdered whilst on active duty.
Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?
I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
If past events are anything to go by, he'll be retiring on a full pension. The whole police system in the US is corrupt.
I don't think he will be. Not this time.
*If* Chauvin gets jail time, unless they find some facility full of white collar minor offenders serving his sentence will be something of a shit show.
If he’s cleared then the rest of his life isn’t going to be easy either,
It's had many ripples outward but the problem at the heart of the recent unrest was the fact that Derek Chauvin knelt on a subdued suspect (FLoyd)'s neck for 8 minutes and 34 seconds. That's not some split second fight or flight response, he had plenty of time to cuff Floyd. It's one of the most disgusting killings I've seen in years. It's completely indefensible, and my instinct is always to defend the police having never known an uncle who was murdered whilst on active duty.
Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?
I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
In Louisville they shot an EMT and trainee nurse eight times as she slept.
It's had many ripples outward but the problem at the heart of the recent unrest was the fact that Derek Chauvin knelt on a subdued suspect (FLoyd)'s neck for 8 minutes and 34 seconds. That's not some split second fight or flight response, he had plenty of time to cuff Floyd. It's one of the most disgusting killings I've seen in years. It's completely indefensible, and my instinct is always to defend the police having never known an uncle who was murdered whilst on active duty.
Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?
I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
I think he was already cuffed, so why were they kneeling on him anyway?
Good question. I've been avoiding posting on, and mostly avoiding reading, PB for the past few days because of the atmosphere.
It might be that lockdown anxiety is getting to everyone, quietly ratcheting up tensions. Or it might be a reflection of discourse in the world as a whole.
Whatever the reason, we should not follow this trend. Try not to denounce someone for their weakest moment, or attack the straw man. Read quotes in context. Resist the urge to blame. Accept that people make honest mistakes. Agree to disagree.
I wonder in ths same period how many black people under 25 have been killed by black people under 25. I am still struggling with the concept of the BLM movement when they never mention black people killing black people. The murders at the weekend were just ignored.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Racist arsewits whose sole argument is desperate whataboutery mention black-on-black crime all the time.
Yeh, black on black crime is just not a thing, right?
Black lives only matter when they are taken by whites. Or white police, actually. White Criminals is OK.
It is a thing, but I reckon the best label of that thing would be "crime". Now crime is a complex issue, and we could fill many a socially undistanced lecture theatre with academics with a multitude of views in how to address it, but I think one thing they would all agree on would that the police should on balance try to stop crime, and not commit more of it.
In the meantime, keep digging.
You're right, the US police must be rubbish, given the incredible numbers of black people slaughtering other black people in their cities.
They must be sitting around in their cars all day, eating donuts.
Sounds like black people oppressing and killing other black people is something you think should be an integral part of any discussion on racism. For context, I suppose. Would that be fair?
I don't know, it might contextualise things somewhat.
If far more black people are being killed by black people than are being killed by white people, then which is the bigger problem? The evisceration of a community by itself, or police racism against that community?
I'd argue its the former, but for Black Lives Matter its a subset of the latter.
Who speaks for the very large numbers of victims of black on black crime?
Who speaks for George Floyd's victims? does anybody think about they must have felt as their tormentor was lionised as a hero by world leaders?
Personally, I think its pretty much nobody. It certainly isn't black lives matter.
He did his time for armed robbery, got out, moved to Minneapolis to start over, largely kept his nose clean, found God, even filmed an anti–gun violence video. He wasn’t a model person by any means but he was a model ex-con who paid his debt to his victims and to society by spending five years in prison. He did everything a criminal is supposed to do to rehabilitate himself afterwards. He was an example to ex-cons. But you are suggesting that, rather than be applauded for turning his life around, he should not be grieved after being tortured to death by an agent of the State? Really?
It would seems so. It would appear that some folk think that if someone is a criminal, a suspected criminal or an ex-con it is excusable for a police officer to kneel on his throat for 8 mins 45 secs. They have an interesting perspective on justice.
Good question. I've been avoiding posting on, and mostly avoiding reading, PB for the past few days because of the atmosphere.
It might be that lockdown anxiety is getting to everyone, quietly ratcheting up tensions. Or it might be a reflection of discourse in the world as a whole.
Whatever the reason, we should not follow this trend. Try not to denounce someone for their weakest moment, or attack the straw man. Read quotes in context. Resist the urge to blame. Accept that people make honest mistakes. Agree to disagree.
It's had many ripples outward but the problem at the heart of the recent unrest was the fact that Derek Chauvin knelt on a subdued suspect (FLoyd)'s neck for 8 minutes and 34 seconds. That's not some split second fight or flight response, he had plenty of time to cuff Floyd. It's one of the most disgusting killings I've seen in years. It's completely indefensible, and my instinct is always to defend the police having never known an uncle who was murdered whilst on active duty.
Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?
I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
In Louisville they shot an EMT and trainee nurse eight times as she slept.
Floyd is worse.
The EMT was tragic but seems like a genuine accident with gunshots going both ways.
Videos from around March 12th by Halpern, Vallance and Harries looked to have aged appallingly. The most deadly groupthink in years.
No one seems to have asked them the most basic questions, such as:
1) what are the points of greatest uncertainty in your analysis? 2) what if you're wrong about any/all of those? 3) why do you think everyone else is following a different approach?
This was a brand new disease, poorly understood (it still is) and they seem to have proceeded with blithe certainty about everything.
almost as if putting science correspondents on the daily briefings may have actually been a wiser move.
This was a job for the politicians to undertake. They didn't.
And of course, Boris Johnson didn't even turn up for the meetings to quiz them.
Except of course if its true as we discussed yesterday that if the SAGE scientists wanted to continue to continue down the Swedish route at least a week more and if its true that questioning from Cummings saw them change to lockdown, then Cumming and the governments questioning probably saved 50,000 lives from being lost. We'd probably be at over a hundred thousand dead now otherwise.
I have no interest in ever engaging with you. Please desist.
No thanks.
Its a public forum. If you have no interest in having your views challenged then you can either ignore viewpoints that differ to yours, or talk to a mirror.
When you're ready to apologise for swearing earlier you can. I'm being the bigger person despite your swearing at me.
I have no interest in engaging with a simpering cretin who is callous to the risks of pain and suffering that his prejudice leads to. So, and in full awareness of Mike's warning earlier, fuck off.
If I am banned as a consequence, so be it. I won't be a moral vacuum, which is what you evidently are.
Off Topic
There seems to have been something resembling bullying by some posters in response, especially to Alistair's views on Brexit. Unparliamentary language aside I for one can understand Alistair's frustration.
My late father was a North Midlands RFU referee decades ago. His view after a player had thrown a punch was what provoked the punch in the first place.
If people are to be shown red cards for their reaction, perhaps a review of what provoked that reaction could be looked at too.
I have made comments, which I would normally avoid making, but some of the commentary by posters who would claim to be supportive of certain actions, are perhaps sometimes written to antagonise those with a more liberal viewpoint. Sometimes they do touch a nerve.
Some posts regarding George Floyd, slavery and Black Lives Matter have been dreadful over the last week or so.
PB is a wonderful resource. Many posters from all political persuasions can inspire and impress. It is not so inspirational or impressive when it is used by some posters as an alternative to ConHome or Labourlist.
A transparent attempt to win the war by lofty generalisation after a week of bruising defeat in each and every individual battle. Nobody has claimed that black lives matter more or less than other lives, not by so much as .001%. They certainly matter more to the average PBer than to that appalling POS George Floyd, because I don't suppose any of us have ever pointed a loaded weapon at a black woman (unless you have something to share?) It's not as if anyone is advocating a change of government policy to a "black lives matter about 30% as much as other sorts" approach, or that we should be complacent about an epidemic of killings of black people by white policemen that disfigures UK society.
And I don't think anyone - and I mean anyone - disputes the incomprehensible evil of the European Atlantic slave trade. You may have misunderstood some crucial parts of the argument.
tldr: why don'y you move to Minnesota?
Not really.
I have no particular axe to grind as regards racism. I do believe how American policemen sometimes behave is wrong. George Floyd probably wouldn't be my poster boy. I think the Sandra Bland case is far sadder.
As you have implied I am not particularly bright so I have clearly misunderstood the cut and thrust of the arguments. My mistake.
Temporarily boarding up the Cenotaph and Churchill monument is a sensible move from Khan to prevent an expensive repair bill. I personally abhore any criminal damage of property. I am not sure how criminal damage reflects on the Labour Party, particularly as most sensible key Labour politicians, having condemned racism have also condemned the way the Colston statue, for example, was removed.
That could just be the tipping point for The Democratic Football Lads Alliance.
Tice is playing with fire.
Er, I think it's the protestors who've been playing with fire as they are the ones attacking the Churchill statue, defacing it, and trying to get murals of Churchill pulled down.
I wonder in ths same period how many black people under 25 have been killed by black people under 25. I am still struggling with the concept of the BLM movement when they never mention black people killing black people. The murders at the weekend were just ignored.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Racist arsewits whose sole argument is desperate whataboutery mention black-on-black crime all the time.
Yeh, black on black crime is just not a thing, right?
Black lives only matter when they are taken by whites. Or white police, actually. White Criminals is OK.
It is a thing, but I reckon the best label of that thing would be "crime". Now crime is a complex issue, and we could fill many a socially undistanced lecture theatre with academics with a multitude of views in how to address it, but I think one thing they would all agree on would that the police should on balance try to stop crime, and not commit more of it.
In the meantime, keep digging.
You're right, the US police must be rubbish, given the incredible numbers of black people slaughtering other black people in their cities.
They must be sitting around in their cars all day, eating donuts.
Sounds like black people oppressing and killing other black people is something you think should be an integral part of any discussion on racism. For context, I suppose. Would that be fair?
I don't know, it might contextualise things somewhat.
If far more black people are being killed by black people than are being killed by white people, then which is the bigger problem? The evisceration of a community by itself, or police racism against that community?
I'd argue its the former, but for Black Lives Matter its a subset of the latter.
Who speaks for the very large numbers of victims of black on black crime?
Who speaks for George Floyd's victims? does anybody think about they must have felt as their tormentor was lionised as a hero by world leaders?
Personally, I think its pretty much nobody. It certainly isn't black lives matter.
I don't understand - no, hang on, I struggle with the concept of - why it is not a worthwhile and very important cause in its own right to highlight that policing in America is corrupted by endemic racism against blacks and seek to bring this abysmal state of affairs to an end.
If a person's main or only input to a discussion of this topic is to (i) constantly stress that blacks often kill each other and (ii) nitpick about the precise name of a particular movement that contributes to the cause, then what am I to conclude about them?
I'll tell you.
I conclude that the person does NOT see the cause as of much importance at all. Indeed they probably do not think the wider issue of anti-black racism is much of a problem either. They probably view the whole thing as at best wildly exaggerated, at worst some sort of invented grievance narrative fostered by the woke left. That's if they are not anti-black racist themselves, of course, which is eminently possible.
Temporarily boarding up the Cenotaph and Churchill monument is a sensible move from Khan to prevent an expensive repair bill. I personally abhore any criminal damage of property. I am not sure how criminal damage reflects on the Labour Party, particularly as most sensible key Labour politicians, having condemned racism have also condemned the way the Colston statue, for example, was removed.
That could just be the tipping point for The Democratic Football Lads Alliance.
Tice is playing with fire.
Er, I think it's the protestors who've been playing with fire as they are the ones attacking the Churchill statue, defacing it, and trying to get murals of Churchill pulled down.
Temporarily boarding up the Cenotaph and Churchill monument is a sensible move from Khan to prevent an expensive repair bill. I personally abhore any criminal damage of property. I am not sure how criminal damage reflects on the Labour Party, particularly as most sensible key Labour politicians, having condemned racism have also condemned the way the Colston statue, for example, was removed.
That could just be the tipping point for The Democratic Football Lads Alliance.
Tice is playing with fire.
Er, I think it's the protestors who've been playing with fire as they are the ones attacking the Churchill statue, defacing it, and trying to get murals of Churchill pulled down.
Trying to think where that is. Is it on the City Churches?
As a fan of the great man, and having read many books on him (including one really bad one by a well known person who would desperately like to be compared with him!), I suspect he would have thought it amusing to be called a c*nt. He would no doubt, have a witty repost.
It's had many ripples outward but the problem at the heart of the recent unrest was the fact that Derek Chauvin knelt on a subdued suspect (FLoyd)'s neck for 8 minutes and 34 seconds. That's not some split second fight or flight response, he had plenty of time to cuff Floyd. It's one of the most disgusting killings I've seen in years. It's completely indefensible, and my instinct is always to defend the police having never known an uncle who was murdered whilst on active duty.
Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?
I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
I think he was already cuffed, so why were they kneeling on him anyway?
I assumed he wasn't. Which might be subconscious pro police bias on my part. Perhaps.
It's had many ripples outward but the problem at the heart of the recent unrest was the fact that Derek Chauvin knelt on a subdued suspect (FLoyd)'s neck for 8 minutes and 34 seconds. That's not some split second fight or flight response, he had plenty of time to cuff Floyd. It's one of the most disgusting killings I've seen in years. It's completely indefensible, and my instinct is always to defend the police having never known an uncle who was murdered whilst on active duty.
Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?
I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
In Louisville they shot an EMT and trainee nurse eight times as she slept.
Floyd is worse.
The EMT was tragic but seems like a genuine accident with gunshots going both ways.
Floyd was cold blooded murder.
No, it's part of the same issue. Police using deadly force as their first stop. Getting the wrong house can happen, stupid but it can happen. It's the shoot first attitude that needs to change, or in the case of Floyd, kill first. The police in America have turned into judge, jury and executioner far too many times for people suspected of crime because they go in with an attitude of everyone being guilty.
It's had many ripples outward but the problem at the heart of the recent unrest was the fact that Derek Chauvin knelt on a subdued suspect (FLoyd)'s neck for 8 minutes and 34 seconds. That's not some split second fight or flight response, he had plenty of time to cuff Floyd. It's one of the most disgusting killings I've seen in years. It's completely indefensible, and my instinct is always to defend the police having never known an uncle who was murdered whilst on active duty.
Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?
I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
In Louisville they shot an EMT and trainee nurse eight times as she slept.
Floyd is worse.
The EMT was tragic but seems like a genuine accident with gunshots going both ways.
Floyd was cold blooded murder.
The cops went to completely the wrong apartment in Louisville and executed a no knock warrant. Sure, you can call it an accident, but only in the same way as crashing after forgetting which side of the road we drive on is an accident. Her boyfriend opened fire because a bunch of guys smashed down the door in the middle of the night. I’d have done the same thing. Now he’s being charged with attempted murder.
It's had many ripples outward but the problem at the heart of the recent unrest was the fact that Derek Chauvin knelt on a subdued suspect (FLoyd)'s neck for 8 minutes and 34 seconds. That's not some split second fight or flight response, he had plenty of time to cuff Floyd. It's one of the most disgusting killings I've seen in years. It's completely indefensible, and my instinct is always to defend the police having never known an uncle who was murdered whilst on active duty.
Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?
I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
I don't think anyone is making the argument that Floyd's record is either defence, or mitigation, of what happened to him, but it is a legitimate answer to emotive appeals for sympathy based on 8 minutes 34 seconds yada yada. Shit thing to happen, sure, but not my problem, not this country's problem, and couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
People have been tetchy since 2016 or thereabouts.
No, 2014. The first Indyref
When historians come to chart the Total Decline of the West, it will begin with the Scots narrowly saying Nay
2008 GFC.
That era has not yet fully played out.
Actually, I'd go back to 9/11
That kicked off the Iraq War (and all the disasters that came with), the GFC itself was arguably, in part, caused by US debt from that war, and so on and so forth
Bin Laden wanted to bring down the West when he flew those planes into the Towers. Perhaps, in a hundred years, when we are all being monitored 24/7 by Chinese drones and we have the the face of Emperor Xi tattooed by law on our babies, we will conclude that Osama succeeded
I fucking hate it when wannabe tossers on the internet say "oh well you should read this book..." but actually....Philip Bobbitt (no relation) writes very well on the various epochs and eras of history which draws interesting lines between events we normally consider unrelated.
It's had many ripples outward but the problem at the heart of the recent unrest was the fact that Derek Chauvin knelt on a subdued suspect (FLoyd)'s neck for 8 minutes and 34 seconds. That's not some split second fight or flight response, he had plenty of time to cuff Floyd. It's one of the most disgusting killings I've seen in years. It's completely indefensible, and my instinct is always to defend the police having never known an uncle who was murdered whilst on active duty.
Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?
I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
I think he was already cuffed, so why were they kneeling on him anyway?
I assumed he wasn't. Which might be subconscious pro police bias on my part. Perhaps.
Temporarily boarding up the Cenotaph and Churchill monument is a sensible move from Khan to prevent an expensive repair bill. I personally abhore any criminal damage of property. I am not sure how criminal damage reflects on the Labour Party, particularly as most sensible key Labour politicians, having condemned racism have also condemned the way the Colston statue, for example, was removed.
That could just be the tipping point for The Democratic Football Lads Alliance.
Tice is playing with fire.
Er, I think it's the protestors who've been playing with fire as they are the ones attacking the Churchill statue, defacing it, and trying to get murals of Churchill pulled down.
Trying to think where that is. Is it on the City Churches?
I have been able to confirm for myself. This is on the side wall of St Pauls Church in Dundee.
Nice.
'There is now only one public commemoration noting Mr Churchill’s role as the city’s MP, a small plaque “stuck on the gable end of a building” in Dundee’s centre, the BBC reports. '
Good question. I've been avoiding posting on, and mostly avoiding reading, PB for the past few days because of the atmosphere.
It might be that lockdown anxiety is getting to everyone, quietly ratcheting up tensions. Or it might be a reflection of discourse in the world as a whole.
Whatever the reason, we should not follow this trend. Try not to denounce someone for their weakest moment, or attack the straw man. Read quotes in context. Resist the urge to blame. Accept that people make honest mistakes. Agree to disagree.
Videos from around March 12th by Halpern, Vallance and Harries looked to have aged appallingly. The most deadly groupthink in years.
No one seems to have asked them the most basic questions, such as:
1) what are the points of greatest uncertainty in your analysis? 2) what if you're wrong about any/all of those? 3) why do you think everyone else is following a different approach?
This was a brand new disease, poorly understood (it still is) and they seem to have proceeded with blithe certainty about everything.
almost as if putting science correspondents on the daily briefings may have actually been a wiser move.
This was a job for the politicians to undertake. They didn't.
And of course, Boris Johnson didn't even turn up for the meetings to quiz them.
Except of course if its true as we discussed yesterday that if the SAGE scientists wanted to continue to continue down the Swedish route at least a week more and if its true that questioning from Cummings saw them change to lockdown, then Cumming and the governments questioning probably saved 50,000 lives from being lost. We'd probably be at over a hundred thousand dead now otherwise.
I have no interest in ever engaging with you. Please desist.
No thanks.
Its a public forum. If you have no interest in having your views challenged then you can either ignore viewpoints that differ to yours, or talk to a mirror.
When you're ready to apologise for swearing earlier you can. I'm being the bigger person despite your swearing at me.
I have no interest in engaging with a simpering cretin who is callous to the risks of pain and suffering that his prejudice leads to. So, and in full awareness of Mike's warning earlier, fuck off.
If I am banned as a consequence, so be it. I won't be a moral vacuum, which is what you evidently are.
Off Topic
There seems to have been something resembling bullying by some posters in response, especially to Alistair's views on Brexit. Unparliamentary language aside I for one can understand Alistair's frustration.
My late father was a North Midlands RFU referee decades ago. His view after a player had thrown a punch was what provoked the punch in the first place.
If people are to be shown red cards for their reaction, perhaps a review of what provoked that reaction could be looked at too.
I have made comments, which I would normally avoid making, but some of the commentary by posters who would claim to be supportive of certain actions, are perhaps sometimes written to antagonise those with a more liberal viewpoint. Sometimes they do touch a nerve.
Some posts regarding George Floyd, slavery and Black Lives Matter have been dreadful over the last week or so.
PB is a wonderful resource. Many posters from all political persuasions can inspire and impress. It is not so inspirational or impressive when it is used by some posters as an alternative to ConHome or Labourlist.
A transparent attempt to win the war by lofty generalisation after a week of bruising defeat in each and every individual battle. Nobody has claimed that black lives matter more or less than other lives, not by so much as .001%. They certainly matter more to the average PBer than to that appalling POS George Floyd, because I don't suppose any of us have ever pointed a loaded weapon at a black woman (unless you have something to share?) It's not as if anyone is advocating a change of government policy to a "black lives matter about 30% as much as other sorts" approach, or that we should be complacent about an epidemic of killings of black people by white policemen that disfigures UK society.
And I don't think anyone - and I mean anyone - disputes the incomprehensible evil of the European Atlantic slave trade. You may have misunderstood some crucial parts of the argument.
tldr: why don'y you move to Minnesota?
Not really.
I have no particular axe to grind as regards racism. I do believe how American policemen sometimes behave is wrong. George Floyd probably wouldn't be my poster boy. I think the Sandra Bland case is far sadder.
As you have implied I am not particularly bright so I have clearly misunderstood the cut and thrust of the arguments. My mistake.
Ooh, passive aggression.
Point us to one of these "dreadful posts" about slavery and perhaps we can explain where you are going wrong.
It's had many ripples outward but the problem at the heart of the recent unrest was the fact that Derek Chauvin knelt on a subdued suspect (FLoyd)'s neck for 8 minutes and 34 seconds. That's not some split second fight or flight response, he had plenty of time to cuff Floyd. It's one of the most disgusting killings I've seen in years. It's completely indefensible, and my instinct is always to defend the police having never known an uncle who was murdered whilst on active duty.
Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?
I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
In Louisville they shot an EMT and trainee nurse eight times as she slept.
Floyd is worse.
The EMT was tragic but seems like a genuine accident with gunshots going both ways.
Floyd was cold blooded murder.
The cops went to completely the wrong apartment in Louisville and executed a no knock warrant. Sure, you can call it an accident, but only in the same way as crashing after forgetting which side of the road we drive on is an accident. Her boyfriend opened fire because a bunch of guys smashed down the door in the middle of the night. I’d have done the same thing. Now he’s being charged with attempted murder.
And eight times?
The idea of no knock warrants is absurd and that combined with America's gun culture and the desire for homeowners to shoot home invaders led to a tragedy IMHO. Its endemic of American violence, not racism, they may not have even known whether the person they were shooting at was black or white.
I think all charges have been dropped against the boyfriend, I don't think he's being charged with anything anymore let alone attempted murder.
People have been tetchy since 2016 or thereabouts.
No, 2014. The first Indyref
When historians come to chart the Total Decline of the West, it will begin with the Scots narrowly saying Nay
Would you have said that if we voted yes?
I would. It's the fact that we had the referendum at all. Identity politics is a dangerous preoccupation.
As in British patriotism? Blood and soil speeches by Mr Cameron? It's a position, I suppose. Some of us were actually more worried about the democratic deficit than whether our fellow Scots were white, peelywally, gingery, pink, blue or Proxima Centauran. And now we're stuck with Brexit against our will.
It's had many ripples outward but the problem at the heart of the recent unrest was the fact that Derek Chauvin knelt on a subdued suspect (FLoyd)'s neck for 8 minutes and 34 seconds. That's not some split second fight or flight response, he had plenty of time to cuff Floyd. It's one of the most disgusting killings I've seen in years. It's completely indefensible, and my instinct is always to defend the police having never known an uncle who was murdered whilst on active duty.
Have the police offered ANY explanation why he knelt on a clearly subdued, unresisting, unarmed man for such a hideously long time?
I've not seen any attempt to rationalise it. So it does look like grotesque and cold-blooded murder.
I can't. Also the argument that Floyd was no angel is tripe. Was Floyd posing a threat after say a minute of being subdued. The answer is clearly no, and even if he was there are four officers there to get him cuffed. It's a massive red herring, the police don't normally go around arresting society's mother theresas anyway.
In Louisville they shot an EMT and trainee nurse eight times as she slept.
Floyd is worse.
The EMT was tragic but seems like a genuine accident with gunshots going both ways.
Floyd was cold blooded murder.
The cops went to completely the wrong apartment in Louisville and executed a no knock warrant. Sure, you can call it an accident, but only in the same way as crashing after forgetting which side of the road we drive on is an accident. Her boyfriend opened fire because a bunch of guys smashed down the door in the middle of the night. I’d have done the same thing. Now he’s being charged with attempted murder.
And eight times?
The idea of no knock warrants is absurd and that combined with America's gun culture and the desire for homeowners to shoot home invaders led to a tragedy IMHO. Its endemic of American violence, not racism, they may not have even known whether the person they were shooting at was black or white.
I think all charges have been dropped against the boyfriend, I don't think he's being charged with anything anymore let alone attempted murder.
Didn’t know that about the boyfriend. Great news if true.
Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.
But you're a winner...
I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet.
If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
How mad must those 10 billion people who marched against it and all the FBPE fanatics on twitter be then if they're getting angry over nothing? You should probably tell James O'Brien too while you're at it that nothing is changing.
As mentioned, the terms of our trade and relations will not change too much, save for everything will henceforth be done on the EU's terms (witness the u-turn today).
And the opportunity cost has been huge but as I said, Leavers don't generally deal in concepts and I suppose if they can't drop it on their foot it doesn't really exist.
I think the opposite will happen and remain confident the UK will outgrow the Eurozone over the course of this decade.
LOL you ain't half in for a shock when you come out of your fantasy world.
We have for the past two decades despite all the warnings about what would happen if we don't join the Euro and having half of the last decade been debating our EU membership and/or after the referendum.
I don't see any reason for things to change. The UK is adept at adapting to the world. The EU is a sclerotic behemoth. Agile and nimble beats brute, lumbering monstrosities.
"Big fucks small, always". Alfie, in Peaky Blinders.
Its not true though.
Without wanting to trigger @kinabalu the Prime Minister is apparently 40% bigger than Amir Khan, but if they got into a boxing ring my money would certainly be on the smaller and more nimble Khan over the weightier, stodgier unfit Prime Minister.
Fit, nimble, strong and agile beats big, slow and unhealthy.
lol
"Muscles" Johnson would wipe the floor with titchy little Khan surely.
Videos from around March 12th by Halpern, Vallance and Harries looked to have aged appallingly. The most deadly groupthink in years.
No one seems to have asked them the most basic questions, such as:
1) what are the points of greatest uncertainty in your analysis? 2) what if you're wrong about any/all of those? 3) why do you think everyone else is following a different approach?
This was a brand new disease, poorly understood (it still is) and they seem to have proceeded with blithe certainty about everything.
almost as if putting science correspondents on the daily briefings may have actually been a wiser move.
This was a job for the politicians to undertake. They didn't.
And of course, Boris Johnson didn't even turn up for the meetings to quiz them.
Except of course if its true as we discussed yesterday that if the SAGE scientists wanted to continue to continue down the Swedish route at least a week more and if its true that questioning from Cummings saw them change to lockdown, then Cumming and the governments questioning probably saved 50,000 lives from being lost. We'd probably be at over a hundred thousand dead now otherwise.
I have no interest in ever engaging with you. Please desist.
No thanks.
Its a public forum. If you have no interest in having your views challenged then you can either ignore viewpoints that differ to yours, or talk to a mirror.
When you're ready to apologise for swearing earlier you can. I'm being the bigger person despite your swearing at me.
I have no interest in engaging with a simpering cretin who is callous to the risks of pain and suffering that his prejudice leads to. So, and in full awareness of Mike's warning earlier, fuck off.
If I am banned as a consequence, so be it. I won't be a moral vacuum, which is what you evidently are.
Off Topic
There seems to have been something resembling bullying by some posters in response, especially to Alistair's views on Brexit. Unparliamentary language aside I for one can understand Alistair's frustration.
My late father was a North Midlands RFU referee decades ago. His view after a player had thrown a punch was what provoked the punch in the first place.
If people are to be shown red cards for their reaction, perhaps a review of what provoked that reaction could be looked at too.
I have made comments, which I would normally avoid making, but some of the commentary by posters who would claim to be supportive of certain actions, are perhaps sometimes written to antagonise those with a more liberal viewpoint. Sometimes they do touch a nerve.
Some posts regarding George Floyd, slavery and Black Lives Matter have been dreadful over the last week or so.
PB is a wonderful resource. Many posters from all political persuasions can inspire and impress. It is not so inspirational or impressive when it is used by some posters as an alternative to ConHome or Labourlist.
A transparent attempt to win the war by lofty generalisation after a week of bruising defeat in each and every individual battle. Nobody has claimed that black lives matter more or less than other lives, not by so much as .001%. They certainly matter more to the average PBer than to that appalling POS George Floyd, because I don't suppose any of us have ever pointed a loaded weapon at a black woman (unless you have something to share?) It's not as if anyone is advocating a change of government policy to a "black lives matter about 30% as much as other sorts" approach, or that we should be complacent about an epidemic of killings of black people by white policemen that disfigures UK society.
And I don't think anyone - and I mean anyone - disputes the incomprehensible evil of the European Atlantic slave trade. You may have misunderstood some crucial parts of the argument.
tldr: why don'y you move to Minnesota?
Not really.
I have no particular axe to grind as regards racism. I do believe how American policemen sometimes behave is wrong. George Floyd probably wouldn't be my poster boy. I think the Sandra Bland case is far sadder.
As you have implied I am not particularly bright so I have clearly misunderstood the cut and thrust of the arguments. My mistake.
Ooh, passive aggression.
Point us to one of these "dreadful posts" about slavery and perhaps we can explain where you are going wrong.
You don't know me, I don't know you. Why are you trying to pick a fight with me?
I don't think anyone is making the argument that Floyd's record is either defence, or mitigation, of what happened to him, but it is a legitimate answer to emotive appeals for sympathy based on 8 minutes 34 seconds yada yada. Shit thing to happen, sure, but not my problem, not this country's problem, and couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
Well, with magnificent arguments like that, how can anyone compete.
I wonder in ths same period how many black people under 25 have been killed by black people under 25. I am still struggling with the concept of the BLM movement when they never mention black people killing black people. The murders at the weekend were just ignored.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Racist arsewits whose sole argument is desperate whataboutery mention black-on-black crime all the time.
Yeh, black on black crime is just not a thing, right?
Black lives only matter when they are taken by whites. Or white police, actually. White Criminals is OK.
It is a thing, but I reckon the best label of that thing would be "crime". Now crime is a complex issue, and we could fill many a socially undistanced lecture theatre with academics with a multitude of views in how to address it, but I think one thing they would all agree on would that the police should on balance try to stop crime, and not commit more of it.
In the meantime, keep digging.
You're right, the US police must be rubbish, given the incredible numbers of black people slaughtering other black people in their cities.
They must be sitting around in their cars all day, eating donuts.
Sounds like black people oppressing and killing other black people is something you think should be an integral part of any discussion on racism. For context, I suppose. Would that be fair?
I don't know, it might contextualise things somewhat.
If far more black people are being killed by black people than are being killed by white people, then which is the bigger problem? The evisceration of a community by itself, or police racism against that community?
I'd argue its the former, but for Black Lives Matter its a subset of the latter.
Who speaks for the very large numbers of victims of black on black crime?
Who speaks for George Floyd's victims? does anybody think about they must have felt as their tormentor was lionised as a hero by world leaders?
Personally, I think its pretty much nobody. It certainly isn't black lives matter.
One think is for certain, an 18 year old black man is 100 times more likely to be killed by another 18 year old black man than by a white policeman.
I have a proposal for you. From now on, after anything written in protest at racist policing in America, we include in brackets at the end -
(but let's also note that the black on black murder rate in the US is terribly high).
Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.
But you're a winner...
I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet.
If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
How mad must those 10 billion people who marched against it and all the FBPE fanatics on twitter be then if they're getting angry over nothing? You should probably tell James O'Brien too while you're at it that nothing is changing.
As mentioned, the terms of our trade and relations will not change too much, save for everything will henceforth be done on the EU's terms (witness the u-turn today).
And the opportunity cost has been huge but as I said, Leavers don't generally deal in concepts and I suppose if they can't drop it on their foot it doesn't really exist.
I think the opposite will happen and remain confident the UK will outgrow the Eurozone over the course of this decade.
LOL you ain't half in for a shock when you come out of your fantasy world.
We have for the past two decades despite all the warnings about what would happen if we don't join the Euro and having half of the last decade been debating our EU membership and/or after the referendum.
I don't see any reason for things to change. The UK is adept at adapting to the world. The EU is a sclerotic behemoth. Agile and nimble beats brute, lumbering monstrosities.
"Big fucks small, always". Alfie, in Peaky Blinders.
Its not true though.
Without wanting to trigger @kinabalu the Prime Minister is apparently 40% bigger than Amir Khan, but if they got into a boxing ring my money would certainly be on the smaller and more nimble Khan over the weightier, stodgier unfit Prime Minister.
Fit, nimble, strong and agile beats big, slow and unhealthy.
lol
"Muscles" Johnson would wipe the floor with titchy little Khan surely.
Videos from around March 12th by Halpern, Vallance and Harries looked to have aged appallingly. The most deadly groupthink in years.
No one seems to have asked them the most basic questions, such as:
1) what are the points of greatest uncertainty in your analysis? 2) what if you're wrong about any/all of those? 3) why do you think everyone else is following a different approach?
This was a brand new disease, poorly understood (it still is) and they seem to have proceeded with blithe certainty about everything.
almost as if putting science correspondents on the daily briefings may have actually been a wiser move.
This was a job for the politicians to undertake. They didn't.
And of course, Boris Johnson didn't even turn up for the meetings to quiz them.
Except of course if its true as we discussed yesterday that if the SAGE scientists wanted to continue to continue down the Swedish route at least a week more and if its true that questioning from Cummings saw them change to lockdown, then Cumming and the governments questioning probably saved 50,000 lives from being lost. We'd probably be at over a hundred thousand dead now otherwise.
I have no interest in ever engaging with you. Please desist.
No thanks.
Its a public forum. If you have no interest in having your views challenged then you can either ignore viewpoints that differ to yours, or talk to a mirror.
When you're ready to apologise for swearing earlier you can. I'm being the bigger person despite your swearing at me.
I have no interest in engaging with a simpering cretin who is callous to the risks of pain and suffering that his prejudice leads to. So, and in full awareness of Mike's warning earlier, fuck off.
If I am banned as a consequence, so be it. I won't be a moral vacuum, which is what you evidently are.
Off Topic
There seems to have been something resembling bullying by some posters in response, especially to Alistair's views on Brexit. Unparliamentary language aside I for one can understand Alistair's frustration.
My late father was a North Midlands RFU referee decades ago. His view after a player had thrown a punch was what provoked the punch in the first place.
If people are to be shown red cards for their reaction, perhaps a review of what provoked that reaction could be looked at too.
I have made comments, which I would normally avoid making, but some of the commentary by posters who would claim to be supportive of certain actions, are perhaps sometimes written to antagonise those with a more liberal viewpoint. Sometimes they do touch a nerve.
Some posts regarding George Floyd, slavery and Black Lives Matter have been dreadful over the last week or so.
PB is a wonderful resource. Many posters from all political persuasions can inspire and impress. It is not so inspirational or impressive when it is used by some posters as an alternative to ConHome or Labourlist.
A transparent attempt to win the war by lofty generalisation after a week of bruising defeat in each and every individual battle. Nobody has claimed that black lives matter more or less than other lives, not by so much as .001%. They certainly matter more to the average PBer than to that appalling POS George Floyd, because I don't suppose any of us have ever pointed a loaded weapon at a black woman (unless you have something to share?) It's not as if anyone is advocating a change of government policy to a "black lives matter about 30% as much as other sorts" approach, or that we should be complacent about an epidemic of killings of black people by white policemen that disfigures UK society.
And I don't think anyone - and I mean anyone - disputes the incomprehensible evil of the European Atlantic slave trade. You may have misunderstood some crucial parts of the argument.
tldr: why don'y you move to Minnesota?
Not really.
I have no particular axe to grind as regards racism. I do believe how American policemen sometimes behave is wrong. George Floyd probably wouldn't be my poster boy. I think the Sandra Bland case is far sadder.
As you have implied I am not particularly bright so I have clearly misunderstood the cut and thrust of the arguments. My mistake.
Ooh, passive aggression.
Point us to one of these "dreadful posts" about slavery and perhaps we can explain where you are going wrong.
You don't know me, I don't know you. Why are you trying to pick a fight with me?
"Some posts regarding George Floyd, slavery and Black Lives Matter have been dreadful over the last week or so."
Videos from around March 12th by Halpern, Vallance and Harries looked to have aged appallingly. The most deadly groupthink in years.
No one seems to have asked them the most basic questions, such as:
1) what are the points of greatest uncertainty in your analysis? 2) what if you're wrong about any/all of those? 3) why do you think everyone else is following a different approach?
This was a brand new disease, poorly understood (it still is) and they seem to have proceeded with blithe certainty about everything.
almost as if putting science correspondents on the daily briefings may have actually been a wiser move.
This was a job for the politicians to undertake. They didn't.
And of course, Boris Johnson didn't even turn up for the meetings to quiz them.
Except of course if its true as we discussed yesterday that if the SAGE scientists wanted to continue to continue down the Swedish route at least a week more and if its true that questioning from Cummings saw them change to lockdown, then Cumming and the governments questioning probably saved 50,000 lives from being lost. We'd probably be at over a hundred thousand dead now otherwise.
I have no interest in ever engaging with you. Please desist.
No thanks.
Its a public forum. If you have no interest in having your views challenged then you can either ignore viewpoints that differ to yours, or talk to a mirror.
When you're ready to apologise for swearing earlier you can. I'm being the bigger person despite your swearing at me.
I have no interest in engaging with a simpering cretin who is callous to the risks of pain and suffering that his prejudice leads to. So, and in full awareness of Mike's warning earlier, fuck off.
If I am banned as a consequence, so be it. I won't be a moral vacuum, which is what you evidently are.
Off Topic
There seems to have been something resembling bullying by some posters in response, especially to Alistair's views on Brexit. Unparliamentary language aside I for one can understand Alistair's frustration.
My late father was a North Midlands RFU referee decades ago. His view after a player had thrown a punch was what provoked the punch in the first place.
If people are to be shown red cards for their reaction, perhaps a review of what provoked that reaction could be looked at too.
I have made comments, which I would normally avoid making, but some of the commentary by posters who would claim to be supportive of certain actions, are perhaps sometimes written to antagonise those with a more liberal viewpoint. Sometimes they do touch a nerve.
Some posts regarding George Floyd, slavery and Black Lives Matter have been dreadful over the last week or so.
PB is a wonderful resource. Many posters from all political persuasions can inspire and impress. It is not so inspirational or impressive when it is used by some posters as an alternative to ConHome or Labourlist.
A transparent attempt to win the war by lofty generalisation after a week of bruising defeat in each and every individual battle. Nobody has claimed that black lives matter more or less than other lives, not by so much as .001%. They certainly matter more to the average PBer than to that appalling POS George Floyd, because I don't suppose any of us have ever pointed a loaded weapon at a black woman (unless you have something to share?) It's not as if anyone is advocating a change of government policy to a "black lives matter about 30% as much as other sorts" approach, or that we should be complacent about an epidemic of killings of black people by white policemen that disfigures UK society.
And I don't think anyone - and I mean anyone - disputes the incomprehensible evil of the European Atlantic slave trade. You may have misunderstood some crucial parts of the argument.
tldr: why don'y you move to Minnesota?
Not really.
I have no particular axe to grind as regards racism. I do believe how American policemen sometimes behave is wrong. George Floyd probably wouldn't be my poster boy. I think the Sandra Bland case is far sadder.
As you have implied I am not particularly bright so I have clearly misunderstood the cut and thrust of the arguments. My mistake.
Ooh, passive aggression.
Point us to one of these "dreadful posts" about slavery and perhaps we can explain where you are going wrong.
You don't know me, I don't know you. Why are you trying to pick a fight with me?
The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.
But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
Not a leaver, but will hold my hand up to say I thought we would quietly agree an extension. Overall I'm starting to think I've seriously overestimated the competence of this government.
I am pretty certain there will be no extension but also no "WTO" Brexit.
I expect an "interim deal" by the year-end which keeps things closely aligned into 2021, with suitable wording about "selective divergence" being on the table for future negotiation.
An extension without an extension in other words.
I suspect now that the government will largely fold, as it did in 2019. This will be proclaimed a triumph, as it was in 2019. The difference is that Tory MPs will have more time to absorb what has been agreed to.
A virtual certainty imo.
And I think Johnson can sell it so long as FM is (at least technically) ended.
I bloody well hope we do fold ! The alternative of WTO tariffs with the EU whole world will beggar us beyond belief.
Quite so.
WTO Brexit has imo always been a total non-starter. Bit like Ref2. Never the remotest chance of it happening.
But it sure oils many a discussion!
It is not 'quite so', it's a glib statement with nothing to support it. Which specific tariffs has Pulpstar in mind? In which cases will they 'beggar' us? As highlighted by Rcs1000 the other day, there are specific concerns for industries like the automotive with complex supply chains. But to most other industries, they are pennies.
Temporarily boarding up the Cenotaph and Churchill monument is a sensible move from Khan to prevent an expensive repair bill. I personally abhore any criminal damage of property. I am not sure how criminal damage reflects on the Labour Party, particularly as most sensible key Labour politicians, having condemned racism have also condemned the way the Colston statue, for example, was removed.
That could just be the tipping point for The Democratic Football Lads Alliance.
Tice is playing with fire.
Er, I think it's the protestors who've been playing with fire as they are the ones attacking the Churchill statue, defacing it, and trying to get murals of Churchill pulled down.
Trying to think where that is. Is it on the City Churches?
In Dundee C*nt is more or less a term of endearment.
Or perhaps of respect? I remember having a conversation with a friend as to whether Gordon Brown was a tw*t or a c*nt. He concluded that he was much more of a tw*t. Similarly I would describe Boris Johnson as more tw*t than c*nt. Cummings on the other hand is (and I hate to compliment the man) a complete c*nt
I wonder in ths same period how many black people under 25 have been killed by black people under 25. I am still struggling with the concept of the BLM movement when they never mention black people killing black people. The murders at the weekend were just ignored.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Racist arsewits whose sole argument is desperate whataboutery mention black-on-black crime all the time.
Yeh, black on black crime is just not a thing, right?
Black lives only matter when they are taken by whites. Or white police, actually. White Criminals is OK.
It is a thing, but I reckon the best label of that thing would be "crime". Now crime is a complex issue, and we could fill many a socially undistanced lecture theatre with academics with a multitude of views in how to address it, but I think one thing they would all agree on would that the police should on balance try to stop crime, and not commit more of it.
In the meantime, keep digging.
You're right, the US police must be rubbish, given the incredible numbers of black people slaughtering other black people in their cities.
They must be sitting around in their cars all day, eating donuts.
Sounds like black people oppressing and killing other black people is something you think should be an integral part of any discussion on racism. For context, I suppose. Would that be fair?
I don't know, it might contextualise things somewhat.
If far more black people are being killed by black people than are being killed by white people, then which is the bigger problem? The evisceration of a community by itself, or police racism against that community?
I'd argue its the former, but for Black Lives Matter its a subset of the latter.
Who speaks for the very large numbers of victims of black on black crime?
Who speaks for George Floyd's victims? does anybody think about they must have felt as their tormentor was lionised as a hero by world leaders?
Personally, I think its pretty much nobody. It certainly isn't black lives matter.
One think is for certain, an 18 year old black man is 100 times more likely to be killed by another 18 year old black man than by a white policeman.
I have a proposal for you. From now on, after anything written in protest at racist policing in America, we include in brackets at the end -
(but let's also note that the black on black murder rate in the US is terribly high).
How would that suit?
It`s leagues different if the killing is by a state actor.
He was a king who lived a long time ago. So must be a racist I guess.
He was admittedly hard on the English invaders and IIRC his brother invaded Ireland (like rather a lot of kings of Scotland and England). But the relevance to BLM is uncertain. I don't think he ever went on Crusade either (though I am sure he would have liked to go, like rather a lot of kings ditto ditto). His heart did reputedly go separately, but that was postmortem (and may be a myth anyway as it has purportedly been found at Melrose Abbey).
Temporarily boarding up the Cenotaph and Churchill monument is a sensible move from Khan to prevent an expensive repair bill. I personally abhore any criminal damage of property. I am not sure how criminal damage reflects on the Labour Party, particularly as most sensible key Labour politicians, having condemned racism have also condemned the way the Colston statue, for example, was removed.
That could just be the tipping point for The Democratic Football Lads Alliance.
Tice is playing with fire.
Er, I think it's the protestors who've been playing with fire as they are the ones attacking the Churchill statue, defacing it, and trying to get murals of Churchill pulled down.
Trying to think where that is. Is it on the City Churches?
I have been able to confirm for myself. This is on the side wall of St Pauls Church in Dundee.
Nice.
Wasn't Winston a mildly controversial MP for Dundee, at some point?
Yes. DC Thomson really didn't like him and allegedly did not publish a story about him when he was an MP there but in fact had a great catalogue of materials that have been used by serious biographers and possibly even Boris ever since.
Yes. DC Thomson really didn't like him and allegedly did not publish a story about him when he was an MP there but in fact had a great catalogue of materials that have been used by serious biographers and possibly even Boris ever since.
Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.
But you're a winner...
I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet.
If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
How mad must those 10 billion people who marched against it and all the FBPE fanatics on twitter be then if they're getting angry over nothing? You should probably tell James O'Brien too while you're at it that nothing is changing.
As mentioned, the terms of our trade and relations will not change too much, save for everything will henceforth be done on the EU's terms (witness the u-turn today).
And the opportunity cost has been huge but as I said, Leavers don't generally deal in concepts and I suppose if they can't drop it on their foot it doesn't really exist.
I think the opposite will happen and remain confident the UK will outgrow the Eurozone over the course of this decade.
LOL you ain't half in for a shock when you come out of your fantasy world.
We have for the past two decades despite all the warnings about what would happen if we don't join the Euro and having half of the last decade been debating our EU membership and/or after the referendum.
I don't see any reason for things to change. The UK is adept at adapting to the world. The EU is a sclerotic behemoth. Agile and nimble beats brute, lumbering monstrosities.
"Big fucks small, always". Alfie, in Peaky Blinders.
Its not true though.
Without wanting to trigger @kinabalu the Prime Minister is apparently 40% bigger than Amir Khan, but if they got into a boxing ring my money would certainly be on the smaller and more nimble Khan over the weightier, stodgier unfit Prime Minister.
Fit, nimble, strong and agile beats big, slow and unhealthy.
lol
"Muscles" Johnson would wipe the floor with titchy little Khan surely.
The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.
But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
Not a leaver, but will hold my hand up to say I thought we would quietly agree an extension. Overall I'm starting to think I've seriously overestimated the competence of this government.
I am pretty certain there will be no extension but also no "WTO" Brexit.
I expect an "interim deal" by the year-end which keeps things closely aligned into 2021, with suitable wording about "selective divergence" being on the table for future negotiation.
An extension without an extension in other words.
I suspect now that the government will largely fold, as it did in 2019. This will be proclaimed a triumph, as it was in 2019. The difference is that Tory MPs will have more time to absorb what has been agreed to.
A virtual certainty imo.
And I think Johnson can sell it so long as FM is (at least technically) ended.
I bloody well hope we do fold ! The alternative of WTO tariffs with the EU whole world will beggar us beyond belief.
Quite so.
WTO Brexit has imo always been a total non-starter. Bit like Ref2. Never the remotest chance of it happening.
But it sure oils many a discussion!
It is not 'quite so', it's a glib statement with nothing to support it. Which specific tariffs has Pulpstar in mind? In which cases will they 'beggar' us? As highlighted by Rcs1000 the other day, there are specific concerns for industries like the automotive with complex supply chains. But to most other industries, they are pennies.
I will leave to @Pulpstar. I'm not very clued up on the details of this.
No, it doesn't. You thought it was fine to tear down the statue of Colston with mob violence. Polls do not support that. They say "remove" to a museum.
You also agreed with the tearing down of the statue of Robert Milligan. He was not a slave trader, but a slave owner, which is a significant difference.
Hmm - surely slave onwers had to trade in slaves to get them in the first place unless by inheritance or breeding? And didn';t they swapsies with other owners to get their slave selection just right?
Videos from around March 12th by Halpern, Vallance and Harries looked to have aged appallingly. The most deadly groupthink in years.
No one seems to have asked them the most basic questions, such as:
1) what are the points of greatest uncertainty in your analysis? 2) what if you're wrong about any/all of those? 3) why do you think everyone else is following a different approach?
This was a brand new disease, poorly understood (it still is) and they seem to have proceeded with blithe certainty about everything.
almost as if putting science correspondents on the daily briefings may have actually been a wiser move.
This was a job for the politicians to undertake. They didn't.
And of course, Boris Johnson didn't even turn up for the meetings to quiz them.
Except of course if its true as we discussed yesterday that if the SAGE scientists wanted to continue to continue down the Swedish route at least a week more and if its true that questioning from Cummings saw them change to lockdown, then Cumming and the governments questioning probably saved 50,000 lives from being lost. We'd probably be at over a hundred thousand dead now otherwise.
I have no interest in ever engaging with you. Please desist.
No thanks.
Its a public forum. If you have no interest in having your views challenged then you can either ignore viewpoints that differ to yours, or talk to a mirror.
When you're ready to apologise for swearing earlier you can. I'm being the bigger person despite your swearing at me.
I have no interest in engaging with a simpering cretin who is callous to the risks of pain and suffering that his prejudice leads to. So, and in full awareness of Mike's warning earlier, fuck off.
If I am banned as a consequence, so be it. I won't be a moral vacuum, which is what you evidently are.
Off Topic
There seems to have been something resembling bullying by some posters in response, especially to Alistair's views on Brexit. Unparliamentary language aside I for one can understand Alistair's frustration.
My late father was a North Midlands RFU referee decades ago. His view after a player had thrown a punch was what provoked the punch in the first place.
If people are to be shown red cards for their reaction, perhaps a review of what provoked that reaction could be looked at too.
I have made comments, which I would normally avoid making, but some of the commentary by posters who would claim to be supportive of certain actions, are perhaps sometimes written to antagonise those with a more liberal viewpoint. Sometimes they do touch a nerve.
Some posts regarding George Floyd, slavery and Black Lives Matter have been dreadful over the last week or so.
PB is a wonderful resource. Many posters from all political persuasions can inspire and impress. It is not so inspirational or impressive when it is used by some posters as an alternative to ConHome or Labourlist.
A transparent attempt to win the war by lofty generalisation after a week of bruising defeat in each and every individual battle. Nobody has claimed that black lives matter more or less than other lives, not by so much as .001%. They certainly matter more to the average PBer than to that appalling POS George Floyd, because I don't suppose any of us have ever pointed a loaded weapon at a black woman (unless you have something to share?) It's not as if anyone is advocating a change of government policy to a "black lives matter about 30% as much as other sorts" approach, or that we should be complacent about an epidemic of killings of black people by white policemen that disfigures UK society.
And I don't think anyone - and I mean anyone - disputes the incomprehensible evil of the European Atlantic slave trade. You may have misunderstood some crucial parts of the argument.
tldr: why don'y you move to Minnesota?
Not really.
I have no particular axe to grind as regards racism. I do believe how American policemen sometimes behave is wrong. George Floyd probably wouldn't be my poster boy. I think the Sandra Bland case is far sadder.
As you have implied I am not particularly bright so I have clearly misunderstood the cut and thrust of the arguments. My mistake.
Ooh, passive aggression.
Point us to one of these "dreadful posts" about slavery and perhaps we can explain where you are going wrong.
You don't know me, I don't know you. Why are you trying to pick a fight with me?
Because he is a troll that does it to everyone lol. He doesn't really have any formed opinions on anything, he is just competing with @Philip Thompson and @contrarian for the title of Pain in the Arse Contrarian of the Year 2020
The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.
But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
Not a leaver, but will hold my hand up to say I thought we would quietly agree an extension. Overall I'm starting to think I've seriously overestimated the competence of this government.
I am pretty certain there will be no extension but also no "WTO" Brexit.
I expect an "interim deal" by the year-end which keeps things closely aligned into 2021, with suitable wording about "selective divergence" being on the table for future negotiation.
An extension without an extension in other words.
I suspect now that the government will largely fold, as it did in 2019. This will be proclaimed a triumph, as it was in 2019. The difference is that Tory MPs will have more time to absorb what has been agreed to.
A virtual certainty imo.
And I think Johnson can sell it so long as FM is (at least technically) ended.
I bloody well hope we do fold ! The alternative of WTO tariffs with the EU whole world will beggar us beyond belief.
Quite so.
WTO Brexit has imo always been a total non-starter. Bit like Ref2. Never the remotest chance of it happening.
But it sure oils many a discussion!
Ha Ha Ha , I would not like you as a fortune teller
I'm borderline spooky, Malcolm, all know that.
Bet you all my wordly goods against a sausage roll that there is no WTO Brexit.
It is a deal PS: I will book a couple of removal lorries in anticipation
No, it doesn't. You thought it was fine to tear down the statue of Colston with mob violence. Polls do not support that. They say "remove" to a museum.
You also agreed with the tearing down of the statue of Robert Milligan. He was not a slave trader, but a slave owner, which is a significant difference.
Hmm - surely slave onwers had to trade in slaves to get them in the first place unless by inheritance or breeding? And didn';t they swapsies with other owners to get their slave selection just right?
Colston's entire fortune was built on shipping slaves across the Atlantic, as I understand it? He drove the hideous business.
That seems very different to someone who bought and sold and owned slaves, which - however horrific - was extremely common before Britain heroically abolished it because we are great; all the early US presidents, and Founding Fathers, owned slaves, probably the vast majority of kings and queens in history owned slaves, all the Roman emperors, bigwigs, all the Greek philosophers, leading thinkers in ISIS, the Prophet Muhammad, and so on.
If "slave owning" is enough to get your statue pulled down, then there will have to be an orgy of toppling
I saw someone have a go at Nelson’s Column for his possibly being friends with slave owners. Even I thought that went a bit far.
He drove the English out of Scotland in much the same way as Gandhi drove the British out of India. And Gandhi was a racist so Bruce must have been too. Is that how this logic thingy works?
No, it doesn't. You thought it was fine to tear down the statue of Colston with mob violence. Polls do not support that. They say "remove" to a museum.
You also agreed with the tearing down of the statue of Robert Milligan. He was not a slave trader, but a slave owner, which is a significant difference.
Hmm - surely slave onwers had to trade in slaves to get them in the first place unless by inheritance or breeding? And didn';t they swapsies with other owners to get their slave selection just right?
Colston's entire fortune was built on shipping slaves across the Atlantic, as I understand it? He drove the hideous business.
That seems very different to someone who bought and sold and owned slaves, which - however horrific - was extremely common before Britain heroically abolished it because we are great; all the early US presidents, and Founding Fathers, owned slaves, probably the vast majority of kings and queens in history owned slaves, all the Roman emperors, bigwigs, all the Greek philosophers, leading thinkers in ISIS, the Prophet Muhammad, and so on.
If "slave owning" is enough to get your statue pulled down, then there will have to be an orgy of toppling
Fair point - I was thinking of the customers of Colston and his successors such as the owners of the Zong - on the same principle that they were sucking up the trade. But of course slavery was much wider as you say. Some Old Testament persons too even. And still more so if you include serfs - that's just about every mediaval landowner [edit] from Richard III downward.
Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.
But you're a winner...
I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet.
If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
How mad must those 10 billion people who marched against it and all the FBPE fanatics on twitter be then if they're getting angry over nothing? You should probably tell James O'Brien too while you're at it that nothing is changing.
As mentioned, the terms of our trade and relations will not change too much, save for everything will henceforth be done on the EU's terms (witness the u-turn today).
And the opportunity cost has been huge but as I said, Leavers don't generally deal in concepts and I suppose if they can't drop it on their foot it doesn't really exist.
I think the opposite will happen and remain confident the UK will outgrow the Eurozone over the course of this decade.
LOL you ain't half in for a shock when you come out of your fantasy world.
We have for the past two decades despite all the warnings about what would happen if we don't join the Euro and having half of the last decade been debating our EU membership and/or after the referendum.
I don't see any reason for things to change. The UK is adept at adapting to the world. The EU is a sclerotic behemoth. Agile and nimble beats brute, lumbering monstrosities.
"Big fucks small, always". Alfie, in Peaky Blinders.
Its not true though.
Without wanting to trigger @kinabalu the Prime Minister is apparently 40% bigger than Amir Khan, but if they got into a boxing ring my money would certainly be on the smaller and more nimble Khan over the weightier, stodgier unfit Prime Minister.
Fit, nimble, strong and agile beats big, slow and unhealthy.
lol
"Muscles" Johnson would wipe the floor with titchy little Khan surely.
Shapps: No update on travel corridors until 29 June.
One does wonder why Walsh/IAG aren't suing Ireland or Spain over identical travel restrictions to the UK ....or slashing the work force at Aer Lingus / Iberia.
The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.
But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
Not a leaver, but will hold my hand up to say I thought we would quietly agree an extension. Overall I'm starting to think I've seriously overestimated the competence of this government.
I am pretty certain there will be no extension but also no "WTO" Brexit.
I expect an "interim deal" by the year-end which keeps things closely aligned into 2021, with suitable wording about "selective divergence" being on the table for future negotiation.
An extension without an extension in other words.
I suspect now that the government will largely fold, as it did in 2019. This will be proclaimed a triumph, as it was in 2019. The difference is that Tory MPs will have more time to absorb what has been agreed to.
A virtual certainty imo.
And I think Johnson can sell it so long as FM is (at least technically) ended.
I bloody well hope we do fold ! The alternative of WTO tariffs with the EU whole world will beggar us beyond belief.
Quite so.
WTO Brexit has imo always been a total non-starter. Bit like Ref2. Never the remotest chance of it happening.
But it sure oils many a discussion!
Ha Ha Ha , I would not like you as a fortune teller
I'm borderline spooky, Malcolm, all know that.
Bet you all my wordly goods against a sausage roll that there is no WTO Brexit.
It is a deal PS: I will book a couple of removal lorries in anticipation
No, it doesn't. You thought it was fine to tear down the statue of Colston with mob violence. Polls do not support that. They say "remove" to a museum.
You also agreed with the tearing down of the statue of Robert Milligan. He was not a slave trader, but a slave owner, which is a significant difference.
Hmm - surely slave onwers had to trade in slaves to get them in the first place unless by inheritance or breeding? And didn';t they swapsies with other owners to get their slave selection just right?
Colston's entire fortune was built on shipping slaves across the Atlantic, as I understand it? He drove the hideous business.
That seems very different to someone who bought and sold and owned slaves, which - however horrific - was extremely common before Britain heroically abolished it because we are great; all the early US presidents, and Founding Fathers, owned slaves, probably the vast majority of kings and queens in history owned slaves, all the Roman emperors, bigwigs, all the Greek philosophers, leading thinkers in ISIS, the Prophet Muhammad, and so on.
If "slave owning" is enough to get your statue pulled down, then there will have to be an orgy of toppling
Have there been any attempts to rename July and August?
Videos from around March 12th by Halpern, Vallance and Harries looked to have aged appallingly. The most deadly groupthink in years.
No one seems to have asked them the most basic questions, such as:
1) what are the points of greatest uncertainty in your analysis? 2) what if you're wrong about any/all of those? 3) why do you think everyone else is following a different approach?
This was a brand new disease, poorly understood (it still is) and they seem to have proceeded with blithe certainty about everything.
almost as if putting science correspondents on the daily briefings may have actually been a wiser move.
This was a job for the politicians to undertake. They didn't.
And of course, Boris Johnson didn't even turn up for the meetings to quiz them.
Except of course if its true as we discussed yesterday that if the SAGE scientists wanted to continue to continue down the Swedish route at least a week more and if its true that questioning from Cummings saw them change to lockdown, then Cumming and the governments questioning probably saved 50,000 lives from being lost. We'd probably be at over a hundred thousand dead now otherwise.
I have no interest in ever engaging with you. Please desist.
No thanks.
Its a public forum. If you have no interest in having your views challenged then you can either ignore viewpoints that differ to yours, or talk to a mirror.
When you're ready to apologise for swearing earlier you can. I'm being the bigger person despite your swearing at me.
I have no interest in engaging with a simpering cretin who is callous to the risks of pain and suffering that his prejudice leads to. So, and in full awareness of Mike's warning earlier, fuck off.
If I am banned as a consequence, so be it. I won't be a moral vacuum, which is what you evidently are.
Off Topic
There seems to have been something resembling bullying by some posters in response, especially to Alistair's views on Brexit. Unparliamentary language aside I for one can understand Alistair's frustration.
My late father was a North Midlands RFU referee decades ago. His view after a player had thrown a punch was what provoked the punch in the first place.
If people are to be shown red cards for their reaction, perhaps a review of what provoked that reaction could be looked at too.
I have made comments, which I would normally avoid making, but some of the commentary by posters who would claim to be supportive of certain actions, are perhaps sometimes written to antagonise those with a more liberal viewpoint. Sometimes they do touch a nerve.
Some posts regarding George Floyd, slavery and Black Lives Matter have been dreadful over the last week or so.
PB is a wonderful resource. Many posters from all political persuasions can inspire and impress. It is not so inspirational or impressive when it is used by some posters as an alternative to ConHome or Labourlist.
A transparent attempt to win the war by lofty generalisation after a week of bruising defeat in each and every individual battle. Nobody has claimed that black lives matter more or less than other lives, not by so much as .001%. They certainly matter more to the average PBer than to that appalling POS George Floyd, because I don't suppose any of us have ever pointed a loaded weapon at a black woman (unless you have something to share?) It's not as if anyone is advocating a change of government policy to a "black lives matter about 30% as much as other sorts" approach, or that we should be complacent about an epidemic of killings of black people by white policemen that disfigures UK society.
And I don't think anyone - and I mean anyone - disputes the incomprehensible evil of the European Atlantic slave trade. You may have misunderstood some crucial parts of the argument.
tldr: why don'y you move to Minnesota?
Not really.
I have no particular axe to grind as regards racism. I do believe how American policemen sometimes behave is wrong. George Floyd probably wouldn't be my poster boy. I think the Sandra Bland case is far sadder.
As you have implied I am not particularly bright so I have clearly misunderstood the cut and thrust of the arguments. My mistake.
Ooh, passive aggression.
Point us to one of these "dreadful posts" about slavery and perhaps we can explain where you are going wrong.
You don't know me, I don't know you. Why are you trying to pick a fight with me?
Because he is a troll that does it to everyone lol. He doesn't really have any formed opinions on anything, he is just competing with @Philip Thompson and @contrarian for the title of Pain in the Arse Contrarian of the Year 2020
The arsehole of arseholes calling someone a troll, you could not make it up.
No, it doesn't. You thought it was fine to tear down the statue of Colston with mob violence. Polls do not support that. They say "remove" to a museum.
You also agreed with the tearing down of the statue of Robert Milligan. He was not a slave trader, but a slave owner, which is a significant difference.
Actually I said the statue should end up in a museum. I even said if the people of Bristol wanted the statue back up it should go back up.
Comments
That era has not yet fully played out.
Worth pointing out that for many countries you don't get a breakdown of testing data - for example, Germany produces total number of tests, once a week, with just a note saying they do multiple tests/person (as does every country).
Joke btw.
It might be that lockdown anxiety is getting to everyone, quietly ratcheting up tensions. Or it might be a reflection of discourse in the world as a whole.
Whatever the reason, we should not follow this trend. Try not to denounce someone for their weakest moment, or attack the straw man. Read quotes in context. Resist the urge to blame. Accept that people make honest mistakes. Agree to disagree.
--AS
Edit: kidding.
Trump 1.08
Pence 42
Haley 65
Ryan 100
Romney 390
Cruz 600
Kasich 700
Rice 730
Rubio 990
various others 1000
And just to muck about, removing Trump and ignoring the various others indicates the following prices:
Pence 2.42
Haley 3.72
Ryan 5.72
Romney 22
Cruz 34
Kasich 40
Rice 42
Rubio 57
Rice has also been suggested on Fox News by Fox's own "senior judicial analyst" Judge Andrew Napolitano as a VP running-mate for Biden.
The EMT was tragic but seems like a genuine accident with gunshots going both ways.
Floyd was cold blooded murder.
I have no particular axe to grind as regards racism. I do believe how American policemen sometimes behave is wrong. George Floyd probably wouldn't be my poster boy. I think the Sandra Bland case is far sadder.
As you have implied I am not particularly bright so I have clearly misunderstood the cut and thrust of the arguments. My mistake.
Nice.
If a person's main or only input to a discussion of this topic is to (i) constantly stress that blacks often kill each other and (ii) nitpick about the precise name of a particular movement that contributes to the cause, then what am I to conclude about them?
I'll tell you.
I conclude that the person does NOT see the cause as of much importance at all. Indeed they probably do not think the wider issue of anti-black racism is much of a problem either. They probably view the whole thing as at best wildly exaggerated, at worst some sort of invented grievance narrative fostered by the woke left. That's if they are not anti-black racist themselves, of course, which is eminently possible.
All of which I struggle to understand.
Or do I?
And eight times?
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/george-floyd-new-video-officers-kneel-trnd/index.html
https://twitter.com/ClarenceHouse/status/1271473367892328453?s=20
Well, there's two now.
But it's hard, you know. It's hard sometimes.
Point us to one of these "dreadful posts" about slavery and perhaps we can explain where you are going wrong.
I think all charges have been dropped against the boyfriend, I don't think he's being charged with anything anymore let alone attempted murder.
https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1271473997327347712?s=20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5NN5S9sPFM
(but let's also note that the black on black murder rate in the US is terribly high).
How would that suit?
If not, I look forward to Johnson explaining that to Brenda.
And this was in 1314 and he then took Berwick in 1318
I have no idea why he is described as a racist
Maybe twice a week is all that is needed, they have become largely tedious
https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1271480974971473920?s=20
PS: I will book a couple of removal lorries in anticipation
But why let facts get in the way of a rant?