I see the Health Ministry is blaming the low test and trace figures on "people not answering the phone." Who could have ever foreseen such a turn of events?
Then let him be ritually disgraced in a public square, and smeared with dung. 60,000 have died. If the politicians are going to shoulder blame, and they should, then so must the advisers who got it so wrong.
It's notable that Van Tam is an expert in.... influenza. That's his whole life's work: influenza, and the breeding, spreading, treatment and containment thereof.
One of the major flaws in our handling of this virus from the start was the presumption that it was another form of influenza.
He really is one of the guilty men.
At some level, it is not possible to get this "right". An unknown disease with unknown properties arrives. The early modelling is bound to be highly uncertain and incorrect at some level.
By 1 April, I knew that Ferguson's modelling was wrong. Scientists on SAGE (who were looking at this more closely) should have known this a week or so earlier. I am not sure they did.
We should all be grateful that our mistakes don't cost thousands of lives. It is a terrible thing to have to live with.
Unless it turns out that his illness has caused him to be permanently disabled, Boris isn't going anywhere, despite the wishful thinking of his opponents. Yes, Covid and its after-effects are going to make the next couple of years a nightmare across the Western world, but that’s unavoidable whoever the leader is, and there’s plenty of opportunity to get back to a semblance of good times by 2024.
As for ephemeral polls, the current orgy of cultural vandalism has interrupted Labour’s rise as the public wakes up to what the fuck they may be voting into power, as yesterday’s Survation suggests...
One solitary statue of a mass murderer gets unlawfully taken down, the rightists of PB call it an “orgy of cultural vandalism” and imply the Labour Party is to blame. In the meantime, we will have around 60,000 excess deaths as a result of the Government’s muddled response, more than any comparable country on an aggregate or per capita basis, and the worst economic downturn in the industrialised world, but that’s “unavoidable whoever the leader is”. In the words of one commentator here “you couldn’t make it up”.
One solitary statue taken down by a violent mob explicitly celebrated by Labour MP Nadia Whittome:
Note her exact words about a future Labour Government:
'I celebrate these acts of resistance.'
'We need a movement that will tear down systemic racism and the slave owner statues that symbolise it. And we need to win a government that will always be on the side of this movement.'
The statue's vandals have published a hit list of dozens more across the country to destroy, and they've already defaced many more, including Churchill, Lincoln, and Gandhi.
Meanwhile, Labour mayors and councils across the country are jumping at the opportunity to 'review' their local monuments, and in the case of Sadiq Khan, to just send in the JCBs as he did with Milligan.
I'm afraid the facts speak for themselves about the left's intentions.
And I’m afraid the numbers speak for themselves as to the number of people your party has negligently allowed to die these last three months. Are you on the side of living humans or statues? The impression you give is that you give more of a damn about chunks of metal celebrating mass murderers like Coulson and Milligan than the people of this country. But I am sure that is not the case.
I'm sure the eventual public inquiry will establish exactly what occurred in this unprecendented global pandemic and the extent to which deaths could or could not have been avoided. Of course, you have all the answers now, thanks to your handy time machine.
'Living humans or statues' isn't a mutually-exclusive choice, by the way. One can want to save as many lives as possible from the pandemic, as the Government is doing, while deploring the violence and cultural vandalism of the far left. People have noticed what they're about, and it doesn't look as though they like it...
You base your entire paranoid polemic on one tweet from one Labour MP and a single Survation Poll that still shows your party’s support far more than halved in a month. As for “time machine” - you forget I borrowed yours, you know the one you use to predict elections? In the meantime the below tweets represent the actual views of the Labour Party - and most people in this country
David Lammy has - to my amazement - won my respect on this occasion. He explicitly said that he doesn't condone violence and riots AND that he would not march with BLM because that would make him a hypocrite after criticizing Cummings.
As for Starmer, on the other hand, actions speak louder than words. Two days after the illegal actions of that mob, he and dozens of Labour MPs put out photos of themselves kneeling in support of the protesters.
If they didn't mean to lend their implicit support to illegal acts of violence then literally kneeling before a movement that had perpetrated them very publicly a couple of days earlier was a funny way of showing it...
They were kneeling in support of a movement protesting the racist torture murder of a black civilian by the police of our closest ally. That is what the protests are about, not some imagined “cultural vandalism”, which is a straw man minor by product emphasised by people such as yourself to divert attention from the real issues that need highlighting. But of course you place an equivalence on preserving the memory of the dead enslavers of Black people rather than the actual lives of their living descendants.
There is literally no comparison between the US and UK on this score, so importing the context of their racial conflicts to this country makes absolutely no sense. Here are the figures to prove it:
Since 1870, police forces in Great Britain have killed 220 people. Three of them were in 2019, and one in 2018.
In the US, in 2019, 1,098 people were killed by police. That's 5x as many deaths caused by police in 2019 as in the last 150 years in the UK!
Funny how the USA is suddenly our 'closest ally' for lefties when they want to import their cultural conflicts, but they want absolutely nothing to do with them at any other time...
"Taking the knee" is an alternative to violent protest. The fact that Colin Kaepernick tried it and lost his career means that some people have gone further because, clearly, it didn't work. The actions of Starmer et al are, if anything, an attempt to encourage people to undertake less violent forms of protest by going back to an earlier stage.
You can peacefully protest what happens on Mars for all I care. It's when the protesters turn violent, assault the police, and commit criminal damage that it becomes illicit - as is now clearly the case.
'between 1990 and 2014 380 deaths in police custody in England and Wales (or as a result of contact with the police were reported), 69 were from BME communities – 18%'
Otherwise known as fewer than 3 individuals per year in the latter group. There should be obviously be as few deaths in police custody as possible, but those figures are no reason for nationwide unrest.
'The actions of Starmer et al are, if anything, an attempt to encourage people to undertake less violent forms of protest by going back to an earlier stage'
That's some heroic spin indeed. Tell me, if a mob of Brexiteers had destroyed an EU monument - and put out a list of dozens more targets they intended to destroy - and then Boris and dozens of Conservative MPs had put out photos of themselves kneeling in support of the Brexiteers, would your interpretation be as generous?
Somehow I think not.
Deaths at police hands are unusual in this country, and deaths at police hands where the police officers concerned have committed a crime are very unusual. The officer who killed Azelle Rodney was prosecuted for murder and acquitted. Having read about the case, I don't think the officer gunned the man down just because he was black.
I wonder in ths same period how many black people under 25 have been killed by black people under 25. I am still struggling with the concept of the BLM movement when they never mention black people killing black people. The murders at the weekend were just ignored.
You "struggle with the concept" of an anti-racism movement that concentrates on highlighting racism?
I struggle with the concept of an organisation called Black Lives Matter than isn't really about black lives mattering.
If it was about black lives mattering would actually be asking the police to come down far more heavily on the black people cutting a swathe through black communities of America in a well documented explosion of violence and murder that far outweighs anything anybody in the white community could do,
Instead black lives matter is facilitating the acceleration of that explosion by what we see in Mineapolis and Seattle. Chicago too. The protests coincided with a bloodbath of black on black murders there last week end.
Then I guess your mind would cope a little easier if they were called "Against White Cops Murdering Black Men."
Something like that. More specific. More literal. More auditable even.
I see the Health Ministry is blaming the low test and trace figures on "people not answering the phone." Who could have ever foreseen such a turn of events?
Given the way "contacts" are defined, people in contact for quite a while in close proximity I'll just do it through Facebook messages if I suspect I have the rona.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
Nicole Smallman and Bibaa Henry had been celebrating a birthday with friends in a London park the night they were stabbed to death. The sisters had stayed behind after everyone else had left just after midnight. Now, five days after their bodies were found, detectives have said they believe they were murdered by a stranger.
Still not sure why this isn't getting more attention in the press. It's especially worrying if this was a random attack.
Exactly
There have been several murders during the pandemic that have not had the usual coverage.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
I struggle with the concept of an organisation called Black Lives Matter than isn't really about black lives mattering.
If it was about black lives mattering would actually be asking the police to come down far more heavily on the black people cutting a swathe through black communities of America in a well documented explosion of violence and murder that far outweighs anything anybody in the white community could do,
Instead black lives matter is facilitating the acceleration of that explosion by what we see in Mineapolis and Seattle. Chicago too. The protests coincided with a bloodbath of black on black murders there last week end.
You don't think that fixing the institutional racism of the police in the US might also improve the policing of crimes with black victims? Like, what's the reasoning here- "I know who's best suited to fix black-on-black crime: racists!"?
I see the Health Ministry is blaming the low test and trace figures on "people not answering the phone." Who could have ever foreseen such a turn of events?
Given the way "contacts" are defined, people in contact for quite a while in close proximity I'll just do it through Facebook messages if I suspect I have the rona.
Probably a vastly more efficient instrument to track and trace.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
There's a certain sort of old man who has never stopped playing with his woggle.
I was never a scout as a boy as my dad didn't approve of the militarism and jingoism, but I think it has moved away from all that over recent decades. Fox Jr enjoyed it, and even became Troop Leader.
BP was a man of his time, and much of his philosophy hasn't aged well.
I too was never in the Scouts as a kid for the same reasons. But my son is a Scout (in what may be the oldest group in the country) and I think it's a great organisation these days. It's certainly very diverse and inclusive and internationally minded and the volunteers are all very committed. They sent round a very thoughtful and even-handed statement about Baden Powell on the group WhatsApp and they're going to talk about BLM on the zoom Scouts meeting tonight. I think all round the country there is a lot of thoughtful discussion going on about our history and how we progress as a multiracial nation, and whatever you think of the BLM protesters the fact is that wouldn't be happening without their efforts.
You need to pay more attention. We started with the benefit of the Italian experience to learn from, and newly elected government with very strong support. We will end with one of the worst death rates in the world.
That is correct. We should have done better.
However, it seems very clear from the modelling that is in the public domain from March/April that it is the scientists who screwed up. The lockdown was delayed because they thought pandemic was spreading more slowly and would peak in the Summer.
I have a lot of sympathy for the scientists involved -- however, it does seem clear that the modelling of the early spread of the pandemic was quite wrong. The scientists on SAGE did not subject the modelling to sufficient scrutiny.
Their error had substantial consequences.
Hard to say what should happen -- the scientists contributed their expertise in the belief that they were helping the country, so i don't feel comfortable with blaming them -- but unfortunately they are to blame.
The government is always to blame. What else is it for?
Bloomberg: "Now Britain faces among the heaviest financial tolls from the pandemic of any major economy, and the deepest recession in 300 years. In the background is the specter of compounding the pain by failing to reach a trade deal with the European Union, with Johnson next week set to try to rescue talks that are going nowhere."
"Fears are growing among officials in London that there’s little or no trust in the leadership anymore"
"At all levels of the government, there are now fears that the premier and his team catastrophically lost their grip on the virus, and with it forfeited the trust of the public."
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
Shades of PG Wodehouse teasing Spodes' black trousers brigade
Black shorts rather than black trousers. It's all in 'The Code of the Woosters', which remains balm for the anguished soul. Read it quickly before all copies are burned and possession made an offence.
(It is of course perfectly possible to make Wodehouse out as racist, anti Semitic and siding with the Nazis. As Penguin were his publisher (maybe still are) for decades perhaps a ban on everything they have ever published would be in order?)
Temporarily boarding up the Cenotaph and Churchill monument is a sensible move from Khan to prevent an expensive repair bill. I personally abhore any criminal damage of property. I am not sure how criminal damage reflects on the Labour Party, particularly as most sensible key Labour politicians, having condemned racism have also condemned the way the Colston statue, for example, was removed.
I see the Health Ministry is blaming the low test and trace figures on "people not answering the phone." Who could have ever foreseen such a turn of events?
Given the way "contacts" are defined, people in contact for quite a while in close proximity I'll just do it through Facebook messages if I suspect I have the rona.
Yeah. About 5-10 years ago the first thing anyone did was add someone's mobile number to their contacts lists. And had high hundreds saved. Not any more.
For those thinking Starmer is the greatest thing since sliced bread, its worth remembering practically every leader, even Foot, IDS and Howard started positive. Only Hague and Corbyn never did. Every leader without fail starts much more positive than they end up.
Simply being able to string a few words together without an antisemitic slur makes Starmer instantly look creditable compared to his predecessor.
Mr eadric, "Van-Tam attended Boston Grammar School in Boston, Lincolnshire." He's also a season-ticket holder at Boston United. Please wash you mouth out with soap and water.
The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.
But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
Not a leaver, but will hold my hand up to say I thought we would quietly agree an extension. Overall I'm starting to think I've seriously overestimated the competence of this government.
I am pretty certain there will be no extension but also no "WTO" Brexit.
I expect an "interim deal" by the year-end which keeps things closely aligned into 2021, with suitable wording about "selective divergence" being on the table for future negotiation.
An extension without an extension in other words.
I suspect now that the government will largely fold, as it did in 2019. This will be proclaimed a triumph, as it was in 2019. The difference is that Tory MPs will have more time to absorb what has been agreed to.
A virtual certainty imo.
And I think Johnson can sell it so long as FM is (at least technically) ended.
I bloody well hope we do fold ! The alternative of WTO tariffs with the EU whole world will beggar us beyond belief.
Quite so.
WTO Brexit has imo always been a total non-starter. Bit like Ref2. Never the remotest chance of it happening.
This seems to me quite significant, assuming it's accurate. I had thought Milley's apology somewhat mealy mouthed, but it's equally possible he's decided to stick around for fear of worse ahead of November...
Milley was seen last week walking to the church with President Trump and Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, among other Trump administration officials in his military fatigues. There, Trump posed for a photo with a bible in his hand in front of St. John's.
Just before the group embarked on their walk, federal law enforcement dispersed peaceful protesters from Layfayette Square with tear gas, rubber bullets and flash bangs. The protesters were demonstrating against the death of George Floyd, an unarmed black man who died in Minneapolis police custody on May 25 after an officer knelt on his neck for more than eight minutes.
Trump has been widely criticized for the photo-op and the decision to clear the protesters.
According to the Defense officials, Milley reportedly "spent hours" the same night pouring over criticism of his appearance in the group with Trump and others and wearing his military uniform while doing so. Officials told NBC that he spoke with "several confidantes" about whether or not to resign from his post.
An official confirmed to the news outlet that Milley did speak to "several of his long-standing mentors to discuss his situation,” according to the report.
The Pentagon chief has also reportedly clashed with Trump after the president wanted to deploy 10,000 troops to quell protesters in the nation's capital. Esper and Attorney General William Barr also reportedly pushed back on the idea.
Milley became so frustrated during the meeting he shook his fists to emphasize his points, according to the news source.
The news of the discussions comes after Milley said during a recorded message aired at the graduation of the National Defense University on Thursday morning that he regretting participating in the photo-op.
“I should not have been there,” Milley said. “My presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics.”...
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
Shades of PG Wodehouse teasing Spodes' black trousers brigade
Black shorts rather than black trousers. It's all in 'The Code of the Woosters', which remains balm for the anguished soul. Read it quickly before all copies are burned and possession made an offence.
(It is of course perfectly possible to make Wodehouse out as racist, anti Semitic and siding with the Nazis. As Penguin were his publisher (maybe still are) for decades perhaps a ban on everything they have ever published would be in order?)
Well, there is ample use of racial slurs (in 'Thank You Jeeves').
And some of the descriptions of Jews (e.g., in 'The Adventures of Sally', 'Jill the Recless') are clearly anti-Semitic.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
There's a certain sort of old man who has never stopped playing with his woggle.
I was never a scout as a boy as my dad didn't approve of the militarism and jingoism, but I think it has moved away from all that over recent decades. Fox Jr enjoyed it, and even became Troop Leader.
BP was a man of his time, and much of his philosophy hasn't aged well.
I too was never in the Scouts as a kid for the same reasons. But my son is a Scout (in what may be the oldest group in the country) and I think it's a great organisation these days. It's certainly very diverse and inclusive and internationally minded and the volunteers are all very committed. They sent round a very thoughtful and even-handed statement about Baden Powell on the group WhatsApp and they're going to talk about BLM on the zoom Scouts meeting tonight. I think all round the country there is a lot of thoughtful discussion going on about our history and how we progress as a multiracial nation, and whatever you think of the BLM protesters the fact is that wouldn't be happening without their efforts.
Yes, I even went on a family camp in Derbyshire with them all, and had a great time, even the unheated outdoor pool in June.
BP was keen to improve the physical and moral* health of boys, as along with much of the country was shocked at the poor health of Boer war volunteers. His idea was to divert boys physical energies into a positive gang culture, rather than a negative one. In particular to give working class boys some positive outdoor activities. Not all bad, for all his slightly dubious ideas on mouth breathing, the correct way to do shoe laces, and maturation.
The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.
But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
Not a leaver, but will hold my hand up to say I thought we would quietly agree an extension. Overall I'm starting to think I've seriously overestimated the competence of this government.
I am pretty certain there will be no extension but also no "WTO" Brexit.
I expect an "interim deal" by the year-end which keeps things closely aligned into 2021, with suitable wording about "selective divergence" being on the table for future negotiation.
An extension without an extension in other words.
I suspect now that the government will largely fold, as it did in 2019. This will be proclaimed a triumph, as it was in 2019. The difference is that Tory MPs will have more time to absorb what has been agreed to.
A virtual certainty imo.
And I think Johnson can sell it so long as FM is (at least technically) ended.
I bloody well hope we do fold ! The alternative of WTO tariffs with the EU whole world will beggar us beyond belief.
Quite so.
WTO Brexit has imo always been a total non-starter. Bit like Ref2. Never the remotest chance of it happening.
But it sure oils many a discussion!
Only if the government accepts a deal which keeps us in the single market in all but name with the exception of free movement will we avoid WTO terms Brexit.
That is possible but it would revive the Brexit Party and see Rees Mogg resign and a rebellion on the Tory backbenches from Francois, Cash, Baker, Redwood, IDS etc again
I see the Health Ministry is blaming the low test and trace figures on "people not answering the phone." Who could have ever foreseen such a turn of events?
Given the way "contacts" are defined, people in contact for quite a while in close proximity I'll just do it through Facebook messages if I suspect I have the rona.
Yeah. About 5-10 years ago the first thing anyone did was add someone's mobile number to their contacts lists. And had high hundreds saved. Not any more.
Well it is quite clear the IOW App isn't yet working, the national rollout having been postponed twice now, and even the revised version for islanders yet to appear.
There was an expert on LBC yesterday saying that the App apparently goes to sleep on the phone after a period of activity, after which it awakes when in contact with someone else's phone provided their App is awake. But two people meeting both of whom's Apps are asleep won't register at all. If true, no wonder it isn't working.
It would, but it wasn’t what the episode was about.
I think either carrying a heavy warning at the start, or editing that particular bit out, before reinstating it would be acceptable to most.
Exactly. It was not what the episode was about but it WAS why the episode was being flagged as needing (as you say and I agree) an edit or a warning. Which btw had already been done years ago - just that UKTV were behind the curve.
So the trouble was, the way the story was presented - Fawlty Towers 'Don't Mention The War' episode to be pulled - means lots of people got the idea that Political Correctness had gorn sooo mad we would no longer be allowed to watch Basil and his hilarious German shenanigans.
And I bet you loads of people still think that. Because the likes of Nigel Farage will certainly not be dis-abusing them of it.
And so it goes. On and on and on and on.
It was a brilliant piece of news management by the Imperial Overlords Matter right. Get the BLM fools to over-reach, or get their fellow travellers to over-react, then make sure the over-reaction is seen in the worst possible light.
Whatever the truth, everyone now thinks the most loved Fawlty Towers episode in the universe was pulled because idiotic and hysterical lefties thought it was nasty to Germans, and also because those BLMers just hate humour.
Superb.
Not really. There wasn't an overreaction in the 1st place. It was just one outfit catching up on a minor edit done years before.
All we're talking here is 'people get wrong end of stick about something because of sloppy reporting' shocker.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
Shades of PG Wodehouse teasing Spodes' black trousers brigade
Black shorts rather than black trousers. It's all in 'The Code of the Woosters', which remains balm for the anguished soul. Read it quickly before all copies are burned and possession made an offence.
(It is of course perfectly possible to make Wodehouse out as racist, anti Semitic and siding with the Nazis. As Penguin were his publisher (maybe still are) for decades perhaps a ban on everything they have ever published would be in order?)
Well, there is ample use of racial slurs (in 'Thank You Jeeves').
And some of the descriptions of Jews (e.g., in 'The Adventures of Sally', 'Jill the Recless') are clearly anti-Semitic.
Yes. There's lots of it about in Wodehouse and in fiction of the period generally, as there was in public and political attitudes. And genius was not exempt. Wagner. Nietzsche. Dickens. Trollope. Chandler.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
Shades of PG Wodehouse teasing Spodes' black trousers brigade
Maybe I’m out of date, but isn’t that the standard uniform for scout leaders?
It’s interesting how all the lefties on here are all trying to mock the people protecting the statue and not the handful of haters who want to see it come down.
Temporarily boarding up the Cenotaph and Churchill monument is a sensible move from Khan to prevent an expensive repair bill. I personally abhore any criminal damage of property. I am not sure how criminal damage reflects on the Labour Party, particularly as most sensible key Labour politicians, having condemned racism have also condemned the way the Colston statue, for example, was removed.
That could just be the tipping point for The Democratic Football Lads Alliance.
Tice is playing with fire.
Er, I think it's the protestors who've been playing with fire as they are the ones attacking the Churchill statue, defacing it, and trying to get murals of Churchill pulled down.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
There's a certain sort of old man who has never stopped playing with his woggle.
I was never a scout as a boy as my dad didn't approve of the militarism and jingoism, but I think it has moved away from all that over recent decades. Fox Jr enjoyed it, and even became Troop Leader.
BP was a man of his time, and much of his philosophy hasn't aged well.
I too was never in the Scouts as a kid for the same reasons. But my son is a Scout (in what may be the oldest group in the country) and I think it's a great organisation these days. It's certainly very diverse and inclusive and internationally minded and the volunteers are all very committed. They sent round a very thoughtful and even-handed statement about Baden Powell on the group WhatsApp and they're going to talk about BLM on the zoom Scouts meeting tonight. I think all round the country there is a lot of thoughtful discussion going on about our history and how we progress as a multiracial nation, and whatever you think of the BLM protesters the fact is that wouldn't be happening without their efforts.
My more sarcastic posts might make it surprising that I agree with a lot of this, and yes, its good to have a proper thoughtful discussion. Not sure that was achieved at times in the last few days, but I guess its more proof that Twitter is not representative of the nation.
On the topic in hand, I am a very lapsed Scout and not involved any more.
However, I cannot think of a more internationally minded, inclusive organisation, that actively does more good deeds in the world. I always find it surprising how many international scouts there are (approximately 0.7 % of the WORLD population is involved with Scouting - that is a huge number!) and it is a reflection of how it has adapted and grown.
I work a lot in Africa and it almost always comes up at some point and almost always positively. It is a truly international family.
Given the particular statue is a memorial to the good deeds done in his name, and given its position reflects that legacy, I think there is a strong positive argument for the statue to remain there.
For those who might want to remove it, I would suggest the alternative first. Find your local scout group and see what they're doing.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
Shades of PG Wodehouse teasing Spodes' black trousers brigade
Black shorts rather than black trousers. It's all in 'The Code of the Woosters', which remains balm for the anguished soul. Read it quickly before all copies are burned and possession made an offence.
(It is of course perfectly possible to make Wodehouse out as racist, anti Semitic and siding with the Nazis. As Penguin were his publisher (maybe still are) for decades perhaps a ban on everything they have ever published would be in order?)
Well, there is ample use of racial slurs (in 'Thank You Jeeves').
And some of the descriptions of Jews (e.g., in 'The Adventures of Sally', 'Jill the Recless') are clearly anti-Semitic.
Yes. There's lots of it about in Wodehouse and in fiction of the period generally, as there was in public and political attitudes. And genius was not exempt. Wagner. Nietzsche. Dickens. Trollope. Chandler.
In fact almost all literature, art and philosophy from all periods and cultures until a few items of issue led children's literature from a year or two back.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
Shades of PG Wodehouse teasing Spodes' black trousers brigade
Maybe I’m out of date, but isn’t that the standard uniform for scout leaders?
It’s interesting how all the lefties on here are all trying to mock the people protecting the statue and not the handful of haters who want to see it come down.
Yes if the left want to launch a cultural war and attack Churchill and Baden Powell there will be only one winner and that will not be them
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
Yes. There's lots of it about in Wodehouse and in fiction of the period generally, as there was in public and political attitudes. And genius was not exempt. Wagner. Nietzsche. Dickens. Trollope. Chandler.
Yes. There's lots of it about in Wodehouse and in fiction of the period generally, as there was in public and political attitudes. And genius was not exempt. Wagner. Nietzsche. Dickens. Trollope. Chandler.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
Shades of PG Wodehouse teasing Spodes' black trousers brigade
Black shorts rather than black trousers. It's all in 'The Code of the Woosters', which remains balm for the anguished soul. Read it quickly before all copies are burned and possession made an offence.
(It is of course perfectly possible to make Wodehouse out as racist, anti Semitic and siding with the Nazis. As Penguin were his publisher (maybe still are) for decades perhaps a ban on everything they have ever published would be in order?)
Is imagining which of their precious cultural artifacts is going to be plucked from them the new vehicle for the right giving itself a delicious shiver of fear, the equivalent of an M.R. James tale on a winter's night? Indeed where does ol' M.R. stand in the pantheon of things that the barbarians are about to pluck from us?
Scores on the doors: one statue drooked & moved, one statue moved and a couple of private companies making commercial decisions about what they want to sell.
Seems the EU have formally accepted this decision despite Scotts wall to wall campaign to stop brexit
And you were the guy that, once upon a time, was so adamant that we couldn’t afford to risk crashing out without a deal.
Time for the deal now.
No more bluffing this is real and I expect the EU to compromise under Merkel's presidency
Lol @ ‘no more bluffing’
Correct me if I am wrong, but you are the PB’er who spent months posting here about the evil and risks of Boris and a no deal exit, then ate your own words long enough to actually vote for Boris to be our PM, then after a few months tries to return to the position you held originally?
Where do I say I want no deal
The nonsense of going on forever locked in a stagnant negotiation has concluded and both sides know the end is in sight and it comes at just the time Merkel takes over the EU presidency
I have high hopes for a September October deal
But being a conservative you are by nature an optimist
I agree with you. Brexiteers always said Merkel was the power behind the EU and would seal the deal, now that Merkel will be holding the EU presidency it would be absurd not to get this all dealt with now and to extend instead.
Merkel will be happy to be responsible for getting the deal - and doing so while she holds the rotating Presidency gives her cover for not stepping on anyone else's toes.
UK about to fold big time KLAXON sounded, Tories wetting their pants.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
Shades of PG Wodehouse teasing Spodes' black trousers brigade
Maybe I’m out of date, but isn’t that the standard uniform for scout leaders?
It’s interesting how all the lefties on here are all trying to mock the people protecting the statue and not the handful of haters who want to see it come down.
Yes if the left want to launch a cultural war and attack Churchill and Baden Powell there will be only one winner and that will not be them
Maybe my cynicism is approaching Penarth levels but are elements of the Hard Left, bitter at the loss of Corbyn, driving this to undermine Starmer indirectly?
Yes. There's lots of it about in Wodehouse and in fiction of the period generally, as there was in public and political attitudes. And genius was not exempt. Wagner. Nietzsche. Dickens. Trollope. Chandler.
Chandler ? Examples please.
Farewell my Lovely.
Ah, you are referring to racial slurs rather than antisemitism?
Yes. There's lots of it about in Wodehouse and in fiction of the period generally, as there was in public and political attitudes. And genius was not exempt. Wagner. Nietzsche. Dickens. Trollope. Chandler.
Chandler ? Examples please.
Farewell my Lovely.
Ah, you are referring to racial slurs rather than antisemitism?
Yes. I can't think of anything in Chandler to be anti semitic about at the moment, but my memory isn't great.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
There's a certain sort of old man who has never stopped playing with his woggle.
I was never a scout as a boy as my dad didn't approve of the militarism and jingoism, but I think it has moved away from all that over recent decades. Fox Jr enjoyed it, and even became Troop Leader.
BP was a man of his time, and much of his philosophy hasn't aged well.
The Cub Scouts had a requirement to keep a Royal Family scrapbook. I remember an Akela whom I knew admitting to me that that wasn't aging very well either in the late 1980s with the news of thje RF's indiscretions. No idea if they still have to do it.
No Royal Family scrapbooks in the 60's when I was in the Cubs.
Seems the EU have formally accepted this decision despite Scotts wall to wall campaign to stop brexit
And you were the guy that, once upon a time, was so adamant that we couldn’t afford to risk crashing out without a deal.
Time for the deal now.
No more bluffing this is real and I expect the EU to compromise under Merkel's presidency
Lol @ ‘no more bluffing’
Correct me if I am wrong, but you are the PB’er who spent months posting here about the evil and risks of Boris and a no deal exit, then ate your own words long enough to actually vote for Boris to be our PM, then after a few months tries to return to the position you held originally?
Where do I say I want no deal
The nonsense of going on forever locked in a stagnant negotiation has concluded and both sides know the end is in sight and it comes at just the time Merkel takes over the EU presidency
I have high hopes for a September October deal
But being a conservative you are by nature an optimist
I agree with you. Brexiteers always said Merkel was the power behind the EU and would seal the deal, now that Merkel will be holding the EU presidency it would be absurd not to get this all dealt with now and to extend instead.
Merkel will be happy to be responsible for getting the deal - and doing so while she holds the rotating Presidency gives her cover for not stepping on anyone else's toes.
UK about to fold big time KLAXON sounded, Tories wetting their pants.
Wetting our pants at Sturgeon, a leader who makes Theresa May look decisive?
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.
But you're a winner...
I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet.
If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
How mad must those 10 billion people who marched against it and all the FBPE fanatics on twitter be then if they're getting angry over nothing? You should probably tell James O'Brien too while you're at it that nothing is changing.
As mentioned, the terms of our trade and relations will not change too much, save for everything will henceforth be done on the EU's terms (witness the u-turn today).
And the opportunity cost has been huge but as I said, Leavers don't generally deal in concepts and I suppose if they can't drop it on their foot it doesn't really exist.
I think the opposite will happen and remain confident the UK will outgrow the Eurozone over the course of this decade.
LOL you ain't half in for a shock when you come out of your fantasy world.
The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.
But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
Not a leaver, but will hold my hand up to say I thought we would quietly agree an extension. Overall I'm starting to think I've seriously overestimated the competence of this government.
I am pretty certain there will be no extension but also no "WTO" Brexit.
I expect an "interim deal" by the year-end which keeps things closely aligned into 2021, with suitable wording about "selective divergence" being on the table for future negotiation.
An extension without an extension in other words.
I suspect now that the government will largely fold, as it did in 2019. This will be proclaimed a triumph, as it was in 2019. The difference is that Tory MPs will have more time to absorb what has been agreed to.
A virtual certainty imo.
And I think Johnson can sell it so long as FM is (at least technically) ended.
I bloody well hope we do fold ! The alternative of WTO tariffs with the EU whole world will beggar us beyond belief.
Quite so.
WTO Brexit has imo always been a total non-starter. Bit like Ref2. Never the remotest chance of it happening.
But it sure oils many a discussion!
Only if the government accepts a deal which keeps us in the single market in all but name with the exception of free movement will we avoid WTO terms Brexit.
That is possible but it would revive the Brexit Party and see Rees Mogg resign and a rebellion on the Tory backbenches from Francois, Cash, Baker, Redwood, IDS etc again
Actually JRM resigning with the others would be a very good thing for the party
Is Spain really reporting not a single death in the last 4 days?
The assessment of the new data, therefore, cannot be made from those provided daily since the beginning of the health crisis, since the historical series since the start of the pandemic has been invalidated. The only thing that can be evaluated with respect to the previous day is the cases diagnosed the previous day, which in recent times have been around 100.
As for the deaths, after a review that left out almost 2,000 and a few days with the total almost unchanged, Health also offers the number of deaths with a death date in the last seven days, hence the deaths cannot be shown either daily.
Unless it turns out that his illness has caused him to be permanently disabled, Boris isn't going anywhere, despite the wishful thinking of his opponents. Yes, Covid and its after-effects are going to make the next couple of years a nightmare across the Western world, but that’s unavoidable whoever the leader is, and there’s plenty of opportunity to get back to a semblance of good times by 2024.
As for ephemeral polls, the current orgy of cultural vandalism has interrupted Labour’s rise as the public wakes up to what the fuck they may be voting into power, as yesterday’s Survation suggests...
One solitary statue of a mass murderer gets unlawfully taken down, the rightists of PB call it an “orgy of cultural vandalism” and imply the Labour Party is to blame. In the meantime, we will have around 60,000 excess deaths as a result of the Government’s muddled response, more than any comparable country on an aggregate or per capita basis, and the worst economic downturn in the industrialised world, but that’s “unavoidable whoever the leader is”. In the words of one commentator here “you couldn’t make it up”.
One solitary statue taken down by a violent mob explicitly celebrated by Labour MP Nadia Whittome:
Note her exact words about a future Labour Government:
'I celebrate these acts of resistance.'
'We need a movement that will tear down systemic racism and the slave owner statues that symbolise it. And we need to win a government that will always be on the side of this movement.'
The statue's vandals have published a hit list of dozens more across the country to destroy, and they've already defaced many more, including Churchill, Lincoln, and Gandhi.
Meanwhile, Labour mayors and councils across the country are jumping at the opportunity to 'review' their local monuments, and in the case of Sadiq Khan, to just send in the JCBs as he did with Milligan.
I'm afraid the facts speak for themselves about the left's intentions.
And I’m afraid the numbers speak for themselves as to the number of people your party has negligently allowed to die these last three months. Are you on the side of living humans or statues? The impression you give is that you give more of a damn about chunks of metal celebrating mass murderers like Coulson and Milligan than the people of this country. But I am sure that is not the case.
I'm sure the eventual public inquiry will establish exactly what occurred in this unprecendented global pandemic and the extent to which deaths could or could not have been avoided. Of course, you have all the answers now, thanks to your handy time machine.
'Living humans or statues' isn't a mutually-exclusive choice, by the way. One can want to save as many lives as possible from the pandemic, as the Government is doing, while deploring the violence and cultural vandalism of the far left. People have noticed what they're about, and it doesn't look as though they like it...
You base your entire paranoid polemic on one tweet from one Labour MP and a single Survation Poll that still shows your party’s support far more than halved in a month. As for “time machine” - you forget I borrowed yours, you know the one you use to predict elections? In the meantime the below tweets represent the actual views of the Labour Party - and most people in this country
David Lammy has - to my amazement - won my respect on this occasion. He explicitly said that he doesn't condone violence and riots AND that he would not march with BLM because that would make him a hypocrite after criticizing Cummings.
As for Starmer, on the other hand, actions speak louder than words. Two days after the illegal actions of that mob, he and dozens of Labour MPs put out photos of themselves kneeling in support of the protesters.
If they didn't mean to lend their implicit support to illegal acts of violence then literally kneeling before a movement that had perpetrated them very publicly a couple of days earlier was a funny way of showing it...
They were kneeling in support of a movement protesting the racist torture murder of a black civilian by the police of our closest ally. That is what the protests are about, not some imagined “cultural vandalism”, which is a straw man minor by product emphasised by people such as yourself to divert attention from the real issues that need highlighting. But of course you place an equivalence on preserving the memory of the dead enslavers of Black people rather than the actual lives of their living descendants.
There is literally no comparison between the US and UK on this score, so importing the context of their racial conflicts to this country makes absolutely no sense. Here are the figures to prove it:
Since 1870, police forces in Great Britain have killed 220 people. Three of them were in 2019, and one in 2018.
In the US, in 2019, 1,098 people were killed by police. That's 5x as many deaths caused by police in 2019 as in the last 150 years in the UK!
Funny how the USA is suddenly our 'closest ally' for lefties when they want to import their cultural conflicts, but they want absolutely nothing to do with them at any other time...
"Taking the knee" is an alternative to violent protest. The fact that Colin Kaepernick tried it and lost his career means that some people have gone further because, clearly, it didn't work. The actions of Starmer et al are, if anything, an attempt to encourage people to undertake less violent forms of protest by going back to an earlier stage.
You can peacefully protest what happens on Mars for all I care. It's when the protesters turn violent, assault the police, and commit criminal damage that it becomes illicit - as is now clearly the case.
'between 1990 and 2014 380 deaths in police custody in England and Wales (or as a result of contact with the police were reported), 69 were from BME communities – 18%'
Otherwise known as fewer than 3 individuals per year in the latter group. There should be obviously be as few deaths in police custody as possible, but those figures are no reason for nationwide unrest.
'The actions of Starmer et al are, if anything, an attempt to encourage people to undertake less violent forms of protest by going back to an earlier stage'
That's some heroic spin indeed. Tell me, if a mob of Brexiteers had destroyed an EU monument - and put out a list of dozens more targets they intended to destroy - and then Boris and dozens of Conservative MPs had put out photos of themselves kneeling in support of the Brexiteers, would your interpretation be as generous?
Somehow I think not.
Deaths at police hands are unusual in this country, and deaths at police hands where the police officers concerned have committed a crime are very unusual. The officer who killed Azelle Rodney was prosecuted for murder and acquitted. Having read about the case, I don't think the officer gunned the man down just because he was black.
I wonder in ths same period how many black people under 25 have been killed by black people under 25. I am still struggling with the concept of the BLM movement when they never mention black people killing black people. The murders at the weekend were just ignored.
You "struggle with the concept" of an anti-racism movement that concentrates on highlighting racism?
I struggle with the concept of an organisation called Black Lives Matter than isn't really about black lives mattering.
If it was about black lives mattering would actually be asking the police to come down far more heavily on the black people cutting a swathe through black communities of America in a well documented explosion of violence and murder that far outweighs anything anybody in the white community could do,
Instead black lives matter is facilitating the acceleration of that explosion by what we see in Mineapolis and Seattle. Chicago too. The protests coincided with a bloodbath of black on black murders there last week end.
Then I guess your mind would cope a little easier if they were called "Against White Cops Murdering Black Men."
Something like that. More specific. More literal. More auditable even.
I'll let them know.
More truthful perhaps.
Great. We're on a roll.
'Black Lives Matter' is now 'Racist White Cops Matter'.
Now how about other names of things that you "struggle with the concept of".
Yes. There's lots of it about in Wodehouse and in fiction of the period generally, as there was in public and political attitudes. And genius was not exempt. Wagner. Nietzsche. Dickens. Trollope. Chandler.
Chandler ? Examples please.
Farewell my Lovely.
Ah, you are referring to racial slurs rather than antisemitism?
Yes. I can't think of anything in Chandler to be anti semitic about at the moment, but my memory isn't great.
I think Gutman is a Jewish name, no?
Chandler is certainly teetering on the borderline here.
Minor mark of progress: today should be the day, more or less, when UK daily deaths dropped below 100 (extrapolating forward from ONS data to end May). Two months ago the figure was 1300.
Is Spain really reporting not a single death in the last 4 days?
The national stats are a mess at the moment. They're trying to move to sorting by date of death, rather than date of notification, which is leaving some data in a mathematical limbo, even if it's the right thing to do.
But looking at the regional figures, the Spanish death rate is pretty low now; according to this article in El Pais, 32 in a week;
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
Shades of PG Wodehouse teasing Spodes' black trousers brigade
Maybe I’m out of date, but isn’t that the standard uniform for scout leaders?
It’s interesting how all the lefties on here are all trying to mock the people protecting the statue and not the handful of haters who want to see it come down.
Yes if the left want to launch a cultural war and attack Churchill and Baden Powell there will be only one winner and that will not be them
Maybe my cynicism is approaching Penarth levels but are elements of the Hard Left, bitter at the loss of Corbyn, driving this to undermine Starmer indirectly?
The more distance Starmer can put between his Labour party and the people who were in charge until a few weeks ago the better.
Minor mark of progress: today should be the day, more or less, when UK daily deaths dropped below 100 (extrapolating forward from ONS data to end May). Two months ago the figure was 1300.
Maybe around 50 by end month *cross fingers*.
I imagine you looking at your figures with a similiar expression to the face vanilla has given you.
I wonder in ths same period how many black people under 25 have been killed by black people under 25. I am still struggling with the concept of the BLM movement when they never mention black people killing black people. The murders at the weekend were just ignored.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Racist arsewits whose sole argument is desperate whataboutery mention black-on-black crime all the time.
The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.
But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
Not a leaver, but will hold my hand up to say I thought we would quietly agree an extension. Overall I'm starting to think I've seriously overestimated the competence of this government.
I am pretty certain there will be no extension but also no "WTO" Brexit.
I expect an "interim deal" by the year-end which keeps things closely aligned into 2021, with suitable wording about "selective divergence" being on the table for future negotiation.
An extension without an extension in other words.
I suspect now that the government will largely fold, as it did in 2019. This will be proclaimed a triumph, as it was in 2019. The difference is that Tory MPs will have more time to absorb what has been agreed to.
A virtual certainty imo.
And I think Johnson can sell it so long as FM is (at least technically) ended.
I bloody well hope we do fold ! The alternative of WTO tariffs with the EU whole world will beggar us beyond belief.
Quite so.
WTO Brexit has imo always been a total non-starter. Bit like Ref2. Never the remotest chance of it happening.
But it sure oils many a discussion!
Ha Ha Ha , I would not like you as a fortune teller
The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.
But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
Everyone in the country who values truth, honesty and integrity lost.
But you're a winner...
I am a winner and Brexit is happening. I'm sure there's some lies on twitter you can retweet as you stomp your feet.
If you really think Brexit will resemble anything particularly different from our existing EU membership then either you have not been paying attention, or you really are as dumb as the rest of the loonies and fruitcakes.
How mad must those 10 billion people who marched against it and all the FBPE fanatics on twitter be then if they're getting angry over nothing? You should probably tell James O'Brien too while you're at it that nothing is changing.
As mentioned, the terms of our trade and relations will not change too much, save for everything will henceforth be done on the EU's terms (witness the u-turn today).
And the opportunity cost has been huge but as I said, Leavers don't generally deal in concepts and I suppose if they can't drop it on their foot it doesn't really exist.
I think the opposite will happen and remain confident the UK will outgrow the Eurozone over the course of this decade.
LOL you ain't half in for a shock when you come out of your fantasy world.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
There's a certain sort of old man who has never stopped playing with his woggle.
I was never a scout as a boy as my dad didn't approve of the militarism and jingoism, but I think it has moved away from all that over recent decades. Fox Jr enjoyed it, and even became Troop Leader.
BP was a man of his time, and much of his philosophy hasn't aged well.
I too was never in the Scouts as a kid for the same reasons. But my son is a Scout (in what may be the oldest group in the country) and I think it's a great organisation these days. It's certainly very diverse and inclusive and internationally minded and the volunteers are all very committed. They sent round a very thoughtful and even-handed statement about Baden Powell on the group WhatsApp and they're going to talk about BLM on the zoom Scouts meeting tonight. I think all round the country there is a lot of thoughtful discussion going on about our history and how we progress as a multiracial nation, and whatever you think of the BLM protesters the fact is that wouldn't be happening without their efforts.
Yes, I even went on a family camp in Derbyshire with them all, and had a great time, even the unheated outdoor pool in June.
BP was keen to improve the physical and moral* health of boys, as along with much of the country was shocked at the poor health of Boer war volunteers. His idea was to divert boys physical energies into a positive gang culture, rather than a negative one. In particular to give working class boys some positive outdoor activities. Not all bad, for all his slightly dubious ideas on mouth breathing, the correct way to do shoe laces, and maturation.
*moral in a very Edwardian middle class style.
A very healthy alternative to the evil of self-abuse.
I wonder in ths same period how many black people under 25 have been killed by black people under 25. I am still struggling with the concept of the BLM movement when they never mention black people killing black people. The murders at the weekend were just ignored.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Racist arsewits whose sole argument is desperate whataboutery mention black-on-black crime all the time.
Yeh, black on black crime is just not a thing, right?
Black lives only matter when they are taken by whites. Or white police, actually. White Criminals is OK.
The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.
But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
I'm naively assuming that the main reason for not extending now is to avoid any liability for the EU coronavirus recovery fund.
I think it's safe to say that the UK will not participate in the re-establishment of prosperity across the continent.
Unless it turns out that his illness has caused him to be permanently disabled, Boris isn't going anywhere, despite the wishful thinking of his opponents. Yes, Covid and its after-effects are going to make the next couple of years a nightmare across the Western world, but that’s unavoidable whoever the leader is, and there’s plenty of opportunity to get back to a semblance of good times by 2024.
As for ephemeral polls, the current orgy of cultural vandalism has interrupted Labour’s rise as the public wakes up to what the fuck they may be voting into power, as yesterday’s Survation suggests...
One solitary statue of a mass murderer gets unlawfully taken down, the rightists of PB call it an “orgy of cultural vandalism” and imply the Labour Party is to blame. In the meantime, we will have around 60,000 excess deaths as a result of the Government’s muddled response, more than any comparable country on an aggregate or per capita basis, and the worst economic downturn in the industrialised world, but that’s “unavoidable whoever the leader is”. In the words of one commentator here “you couldn’t make it up”.
One solitary statue taken down by a violent mob explicitly celebrated by Labour MP Nadia Whittome:
Note her exact words about a future Labour Government:
'I celebrate these acts of resistance.'
'We need a movement that will tear down systemic racism and the slave owner statues that symbolise it. And we need to win a government that will always be on the side of this movement.'
The statue's vandals have published a hit list of dozens more across the country to destroy, and they've already defaced many more, including Churchill, Lincoln, and Gandhi.
Meanwhile, Labour mayors and councils across the country are jumping at the opportunity to 'review' their local monuments, and in the case of Sadiq Khan, to just send in the JCBs as he did with Milligan.
I'm afraid the facts speak for themselves about the left's intentions.
And I’m afraid the numbers speak for themselves as to the number of people your party has negligently allowed to die these last three months. Are you on the side of living humans or statues? The impression you give is that you give more of a damn about chunks of metal celebrating mass murderers like Coulson and Milligan than the people of this country. But I am sure that is not the case.
I'm sure the eventual public inquiry will establish exactly what occurred in this unprecendented global pandemic and the extent to which deaths could or could not have been avoided. Of course, you have all the answers now, thanks to your handy time machine.
'Living humans or statues' isn't a mutually-exclusive choice, by the way. One can want to save as many lives as possible from the pandemic, as the Government is doing, while deploring the violence and cultural vandalism of the far left. People have noticed what they're about, and it doesn't look as though they like it...
You base your entire paranoid polemic on one tweet from one Labour MP and a single Survation Poll that still shows your party’s support far more than halved in a month. As for “time machine” - you forget I borrowed yours, you know the one you use to predict elections? In the meantime the below tweets represent the actual views of the Labour Party - and most people in this country
David Lammy has - to my amazement - won my respect on this occasion. He explicitly said that he doesn't condone violence and riots AND that he would not march with BLM because that would make him a hypocrite after criticizing Cummings.
As for Starmer, on the other hand, actions speak louder than words. Two days after the illegal actions of that mob, he and dozens of Labour MPs put out photos of themselves kneeling in support of the protesters.
If they didn't mean to lend their implicit support to illegal acts of violence then literally kneeling before a movement that had perpetrated them very publicly a couple of days earlier was a funny way of showing it...
They were kneeling in support of a movement protesting the racist torture murder of a black civilian by the police of our closest ally. That is what the protests are about, not some imagined “cultural vandalism”, which is a straw man minor by product emphasised by people such as yourself to divert attention from the real issues that need highlighting. But of course you place an equivalence on preserving the memory of the dead enslavers of Black people rather than the actual lives of their living descendants.
There is literally no comparison between the US and UK on this score, so importing the context of their racial conflicts to this country makes absolutely no sense. Here are the figures to prove it:
Since 1870, police forces in Great Britain have killed 220 people. Three of them were in 2019, and one in 2018.
In the US, in 2019, 1,098 people were killed by police. That's 5x as many deaths caused by police in 2019 as in the last 150 years in the UK!
Funny how the USA is suddenly our 'closest ally' for lefties when they want to import their cultural conflicts, but they want absolutely nothing to do with them at any other time...
"Taking the knee" is an alternative to violent protest. The fact that Colin Kaepernick tried it and lost his career means that some people have gone further because, clearly, it didn't work. The actions of Starmer et al are, if anything, an attempt to encourage people to undertake less violent forms of protest by going back to an earlier stage.
You can peacefully protest what happens on Mars for all I care. It's when the protesters turn violent, assault the police, and commit criminal damage that it becomes illicit - as is now clearly the case.
'between 1990 and 2014 380 deaths in police custody in England and Wales (or as a result of contact with the police were reported), 69 were from BME communities – 18%'
Otherwise known as fewer than 3 individuals per year in the latter group. There should be obviously be as few deaths in police custody as possible, but those figures are no reason for nationwide unrest.
'The actions of Starmer et al are, if anything, an attempt to encourage people to undertake less violent forms of protest by going back to an earlier stage'
That's some heroic spin indeed. Tell me, if a mob of Brexiteers had destroyed an EU monument - and put out a list of dozens more targets they intended to destroy - and then Boris and dozens of Conservative MPs had put out photos of themselves kneeling in support of the Brexiteers, would your interpretation be as generous?
Somehow I think not.
Deaths at police hands are unusual in this country, and deaths at police hands where the police officers concerned have committed a crime are very unusual. The officer who killed Azelle Rodney was prosecuted for murder and acquitted. Having read about the case, I don't think the officer gunned the man down just because he was black.
I wonder in ths same period how many black people under 25 have been killed by black people under 25. I am still struggling with the concept of the BLM movement when they never mention black people killing black people. The murders at the weekend were just ignored.
You "struggle with the concept" of an anti-racism movement that concentrates on highlighting racism?
I struggle with the concept of an organisation called Black Lives Matter than isn't really about black lives mattering.
If it was about black lives mattering would actually be asking the police to come down far more heavily on the black people cutting a swathe through black communities of America in a well documented explosion of violence and murder that far outweighs anything anybody in the white community could do,
Instead black lives matter is facilitating the acceleration of that explosion by what we see in Mineapolis and Seattle. Chicago too. The protests coincided with a bloodbath of black on black murders there last week end.
Then I guess your mind would cope a little easier if they were called "Against White Cops Murdering Black Men."
Something like that. More specific. More literal. More auditable even.
I'll let them know.
More truthful perhaps.
Great. We're on a roll.
'Black Lives Matter' is now 'Racist White Cops Matter'.
Now how about other names of things that you "struggle with the concept of".
I wonder in ths same period how many black people under 25 have been killed by black people under 25. I am still struggling with the concept of the BLM movement when they never mention black people killing black people. The murders at the weekend were just ignored.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Racist arsewits whose sole argument is desperate whataboutery mention black-on-black crime all the time.
Yeh, black on black crime is just not a thing, right?
Black lives only matter when they are taken by whites. Or white police, actually. White Criminals is OK.
The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.
But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
Not a leaver, but will hold my hand up to say I thought we would quietly agree an extension. Overall I'm starting to think I've seriously overestimated the competence of this government.
I am pretty certain there will be no extension but also no "WTO" Brexit.
I expect an "interim deal" by the year-end which keeps things closely aligned into 2021, with suitable wording about "selective divergence" being on the table for future negotiation.
An extension without an extension in other words.
I suspect now that the government will largely fold, as it did in 2019. This will be proclaimed a triumph, as it was in 2019. The difference is that Tory MPs will have more time to absorb what has been agreed to.
A virtual certainty imo.
And I think Johnson can sell it so long as FM is (at least technically) ended.
I bloody well hope we do fold ! The alternative of WTO tariffs with the EU whole world will beggar us beyond belief.
Quite so.
WTO Brexit has imo always been a total non-starter. Bit like Ref2. Never the remotest chance of it happening.
But it sure oils many a discussion!
Only if the government accepts a deal which keeps us in the single market in all but name with the exception of free movement will we avoid WTO terms Brexit.
That is possible but it would revive the Brexit Party and see Rees Mogg resign and a rebellion on the Tory backbenches from Francois, Cash, Baker, Redwood, IDS etc again
Your 1st para is precisely what I have long predicted and I am almost certain of it now.
Politically, I think Johnson can get away with it without major blowback from Leavers. Immigration being THE issue for most of them. Especially the Red Wallers.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
Yes. There's lots of it about in Wodehouse and in fiction of the period generally, as there was in public and political attitudes. And genius was not exempt. Wagner. Nietzsche. Dickens. Trollope. Chandler.
Chandler ? Examples please.
The episode of Friends where they all did blackface?
I wonder in ths same period how many black people under 25 have been killed by black people under 25. I am still struggling with the concept of the BLM movement when they never mention black people killing black people. The murders at the weekend were just ignored.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Racist arsewits whose sole argument is desperate whataboutery mention black-on-black crime all the time.
Yeh, black on black crime is just not a thing, right?
Black lives only matter when they are taken by whites. Or white police, actually. White Criminals is OK.
It is a thing, but I reckon the best label of that thing would be "crime". Now crime is a complex issue, and we could fill many a socially undistanced lecture theatre with academics with a multitude of views in how to address it, but I think one thing they would all agree on would that the police should on balance try to stop crime, and not commit more of it.
We're now officially a cosplay nation. I fully expect the Democratic Football Lads Alliance to dress up as Restoration gentlemen slavers in response to the next terrorist outrage.
The silence from those Leavers on the site who angrily denounced me when I pointed out that the government was not going to let a mere pandemic delay its timetable is telling.
But I expect they’ve all rewritten their memories by now.
Not a leaver, but will hold my hand up to say I thought we would quietly agree an extension. Overall I'm starting to think I've seriously overestimated the competence of this government.
I am pretty certain there will be no extension but also no "WTO" Brexit.
I expect an "interim deal" by the year-end which keeps things closely aligned into 2021, with suitable wording about "selective divergence" being on the table for future negotiation.
An extension without an extension in other words.
I suspect now that the government will largely fold, as it did in 2019. This will be proclaimed a triumph, as it was in 2019. The difference is that Tory MPs will have more time to absorb what has been agreed to.
A virtual certainty imo.
And I think Johnson can sell it so long as FM is (at least technically) ended.
I bloody well hope we do fold ! The alternative of WTO tariffs with the EU whole world will beggar us beyond belief.
Quite so.
WTO Brexit has imo always been a total non-starter. Bit like Ref2. Never the remotest chance of it happening.
But it sure oils many a discussion!
Only if the government accepts a deal which keeps us in the single market in all but name with the exception of free movement will we avoid WTO terms Brexit.
That is possible but it would revive the Brexit Party and see Rees Mogg resign and a rebellion on the Tory backbenches from Francois, Cash, Baker, Redwood, IDS etc again
Your 1st para is precisely what I have long predicted and I am almost certain of it now.
Politically, I think Johnson can get away with it without major blowback from Leavers. Immigration being THE issue for most of them. Especially the Red Wallers.
Regarding the first para, wouldn`t it have been good if the EU had agreed an emergency brake on free movement for nations with high density already when Cameron tried for consessions pre-referendum. Could have avoided all of this.
Comments
Who could have ever foreseen such a turn of events?
By 1 April, I knew that Ferguson's modelling was wrong. Scientists on SAGE (who were looking at this more closely) should have known this a week or so earlier. I am not sure they did.
We should all be grateful that our mistakes don't cost thousands of lives. It is a terrible thing to have to live with.
I think all round the country there is a lot of thoughtful discussion going on about our history and how we progress as a multiracial nation, and whatever you think of the BLM protesters the fact is that wouldn't be happening without their efforts.
Bloomberg: "Now Britain faces among the heaviest financial tolls from the pandemic of any major economy, and the deepest recession in 300 years. In the background is the specter of compounding the pain by failing to reach a trade deal with the European Union, with Johnson next week set to try to rescue talks that are going nowhere."
"Fears are growing among officials in London that there’s little or no trust in the leadership anymore"
"At all levels of the government, there are now fears that the premier and his team catastrophically lost their grip on the virus, and with it forfeited the trust of the public."
https://twitter.com/pimlicat/status/1271418044334604288?s=20
(It is of course perfectly possible to make Wodehouse out as racist, anti Semitic and siding with the Nazis. As Penguin were his publisher (maybe still are) for decades perhaps a ban on everything they have ever published would be in order?)
Tice is playing with fire.
This was where we were last week
about 0.1 %
and updated this week?
0.06 %
The Tories, Labour (in Wales) and the SNP (in Scotland) can all be blamed by your formula.
Edit: The NHS breakdown looks more positive than the headline figure though.
Not any more.
Simply being able to string a few words together without an antisemitic slur makes Starmer instantly look creditable compared to his predecessor.
"Van-Tam attended Boston Grammar School in Boston, Lincolnshire." He's also a season-ticket holder at Boston United. Please wash you mouth out with soap and water.
WTO Brexit has imo always been a total non-starter. Bit like Ref2. Never the remotest chance of it happening.
But it sure oils many a discussion!
I had thought Milley's apology somewhat mealy mouthed, but it's equally possible he's decided to stick around for fear of worse ahead of November...
Milley discussed resigning from post after Trump photo-op: report
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/502393-milley-mulled-resigning-from-post-after-trump-photo-op-report
Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Mark Milley discussed resigning after his participation in President Trump’s photo opportunity outside St. John’s Episcopal Church last week, according to three senior defense officials, NBC reported.
Milley was seen last week walking to the church with President Trump and Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, among other Trump administration officials in his military fatigues. There, Trump posed for a photo with a bible in his hand in front of St. John's.
Just before the group embarked on their walk, federal law enforcement dispersed peaceful protesters from Layfayette Square with tear gas, rubber bullets and flash bangs. The protesters were demonstrating against the death of George Floyd, an unarmed black man who died in Minneapolis police custody on May 25 after an officer knelt on his neck for more than eight minutes.
Trump has been widely criticized for the photo-op and the decision to clear the protesters.
According to the Defense officials, Milley reportedly "spent hours" the same night pouring over criticism of his appearance in the group with Trump and others and wearing his military uniform while doing so. Officials told NBC that he spoke with "several confidantes" about whether or not to resign from his post.
An official confirmed to the news outlet that Milley did speak to "several of his long-standing mentors to discuss his situation,” according to the report.
The Pentagon chief has also reportedly clashed with Trump after the president wanted to deploy 10,000 troops to quell protesters in the nation's capital. Esper and Attorney General William Barr also reportedly pushed back on the idea.
Milley became so frustrated during the meeting he shook his fists to emphasize his points, according to the news source.
The news of the discussions comes after Milley said during a recorded message aired at the graduation of the National Defense University on Thursday morning that he regretting participating in the photo-op.
“I should not have been there,” Milley said. “My presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics.”...
And some of the descriptions of Jews (e.g., in 'The Adventures of Sally', 'Jill the Recless') are clearly anti-Semitic.
BP was keen to improve the physical and moral* health of boys, as along with much of the country was shocked at the poor health of Boer war volunteers. His idea was to divert boys physical energies into a positive gang culture, rather than a negative one. In particular to give working class boys some positive outdoor activities. Not all bad, for all his slightly dubious ideas on mouth breathing, the correct way to do shoe laces, and maturation.
*moral in a very Edwardian middle class style.
That is possible but it would revive the Brexit Party and see Rees Mogg resign and a rebellion on the Tory backbenches from Francois, Cash, Baker, Redwood, IDS etc again
There was an expert on LBC yesterday saying that the App apparently goes to sleep on the phone after a period of activity, after which it awakes when in contact with someone else's phone provided their App is awake. But two people meeting both of whom's Apps are asleep won't register at all. If true, no wonder it isn't working.
All we're talking here is 'people get wrong end of stick about something because of sloppy reporting' shocker.
Sustained falls this week. Below 50 next week?
It’s interesting how all the lefties on here are all trying to mock the people protecting the statue and not the handful of haters who want to see it come down.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1269896392396484609?s=20
It sent up police bigotry that was far too common at the time and still has relevance today.
On the topic in hand, I am a very lapsed Scout and not involved any more.
However, I cannot think of a more internationally minded, inclusive organisation, that actively does more good deeds in the world. I always find it surprising how many international scouts there are (approximately 0.7 % of the WORLD population is involved with Scouting - that is a huge number!) and it is a reflection of how it has adapted and grown.
I work a lot in Africa and it almost always comes up at some point and almost always positively. It is a truly international family.
Given the particular statue is a memorial to the good deeds done in his name, and given its position reflects that legacy, I think there is a strong positive argument for the statue to remain there.
For those who might want to remove it, I would suggest the alternative first. Find your local scout group and see what they're doing.
Woggles abounded.
Scores on the doors: one statue drooked & moved, one statue moved and a couple of private companies making commercial decisions about what they want to sell.
Potentially: THE END OF WESTERN CIVILISATION!!!
Ha, ha, ha!!
'Ooh Julian, that chaise longue is just not longue enough..'
Dissent will not be tolerated...
Fallecidos:27.136
Fallecidos últimos 7 días: 32
Recuperados:18-05-2020150.376
Hospitalizados: 124.536 Hospitalizados últimos 7 días: 151 UCI: 11.617 UCI últimos 7 días: 10 The assessment of the new data, therefore, cannot be made from those provided daily since the beginning of the health crisis, since the historical series since the start of the pandemic has been invalidated. The only thing that can be evaluated with respect to the previous day is the cases diagnosed the previous day, which in recent times have been around 100.
As for the deaths, after a review that left out almost 2,000 and a few days with the total almost unchanged, Health also offers the number of deaths with a death date in the last seven days, hence the deaths cannot be shown either daily.
'Black Lives Matter' is now 'Racist White Cops Matter'.
Now how about other names of things that you "struggle with the concept of".
Islamophobia? Would you like to change that one?
Chandler is certainly teetering on the borderline here.
Maybe around 50 by end month *cross fingers*.
PG Wodehouse ran away to France for tax reasons.
Chandler? Back to Friends being dodgy.
But looking at the regional figures, the Spanish death rate is pretty low now;
according to this article in El Pais, 32 in a week;
https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-06-12/spain-reports-156-new-coronavirus-cases-in-24-hours-and-32-deaths-in-a-week.html
https://twitter.com/Colin00007/status/1271425353572106243?s=20
Top quality self sabotage.
https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1271447120881606657?s=20
Black lives only matter when they are taken by whites. Or white police, actually. White Criminals is OK.
Politically, I think Johnson can get away with it without major blowback from Leavers. Immigration being THE issue for most of them. Especially the Red Wallers.
In the meantime, keep digging.
https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1271438386541334529?s=20