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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The armed, Trump-backed, lockdown protestors who are helping b

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    ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    edited May 2020
    ukpaul said:

    Does anyone know of a graph of daily deaths by region of those with COVID? We keep seeing the hospitalisations graph in the daily presser but I can't recall seeing this. We see London markedly falling but not much elsewhere, so I was wondering if this is just hospitalisations or if deaths are now also equally spread across the country.

    I should have read the thread, I see someone had already posted it. Mea culpa.

    So now my area is second in the country below the Midlands. From what I'm seeing out on the streets that figures.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216

    Mr. Borough, I was out today, briefly, and there were notably more people about, and traffic.

    Interesting to know if this is thanks to Boris being back and starting talking about the relaxation processes that will come in next few weeks.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,294
    GIN1138 said:

    Peston will be sucking lemons at the moment...

    Rigby will be incandescent
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    Well, that every single journalists opening question torn up then.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,379
    London City is basically doomed by pollution and noise issues, in the long run.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,288
    We didn't ask who we could blame.

    We asked how we could fix it.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    Yes kinabalu I agree, one must consider primary concerns like the stage of the economic cycle, the size of the deficit as well as secondary concerns like the size of the debt to get a big picture view.

    Do you agree with that?

    :smile: - bang!

    And yes, of course, no probs reciprocating.

    The debt, the deficit, where one thinks one is in the economic cycle, these are all key to assessing the state of the public finances.

    Debt is "secondary"? Hmm. Not for me. Or rather not necessarily. It really does depend. For example, if yields shoot up the amount of debt you're carrying and its maturity profile can be rather important.

    But that's a mere quibble. We have nailed it. Not only that, I think our lengthy exchange on this most arcane of topics has benefited the whole board.
    Absolutely yields matter though its worth remembering most bonds have a long maturity of 10 to 30 to 50 years. Even if yields change up or down it takes a long time for that to filter through to all bonds. That is why the deficit matters more again because the deficit must be borrowed now and not just a fraction of it now like bond renewals.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,668
    kinabalu said:

    I gather from @bigjohnowls on PT that the way tests are counted was changed to hit the target?

    https://www.hsj.co.uk/quality-and-performance/revealed-how-government-changed-the-rules-to-hit-100000-tests-target/7027544.article

    Given they've gone comfortably beyond the 100,000 it may not even have been necessary....
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Well, that every single journalists opening question torn up then.

    I'm calling it now, "When are we going to get to 250,000?"
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216

    GIN1138 said:

    Peston will be sucking lemons at the moment...

    Rigby will be incandescent
    Yes, it's a total disaster frankly.

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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    Hancock enjoying his half hour.

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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,294
    Amazing public - private sector success and a direction for a modern NHS combining the best of the public and private sectors

    Time to bin labour's tired stop privatisation of our NHS.

    Both working in harmony saves lives
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
    Is that the sound of moving goalposts I hear?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    So even if the HSJ story is correct, they still did 80k tests.
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
    need a hanky BJO :D
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    GIN1138 said:

    Peston will be sucking lemons at the moment...

    Rigby will be incandescent
    If I remember correctly sources in No. 10 and the Cabinet were recently briefing against Hancock.

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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,081
    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,190

    The most extraordinary aspect of the Michigan story is that carrying arms into the capitol building is apparently perfectly legal.

    Isn't it incredible. You watch a ton of Woody Allen films and think you know America. You don't.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
    Tbh, BJ, this is all nitpicking now. The government has surpassed it and you're better off recognising it as a job well done (though 4 weeks late) than nitpicking at a nothing problem.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,119

    So even if the HSJ story is correct, they still did 80k tests.

    Fuck them, miserable scrotes - we still have an extra 40k+ people who have been brought into the testing regime. That's a Covid-19 test in my book.
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    ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649

    Analysis by Denmark's infectious diseases agency the State Serum Institute (SSI) found the so-called reproduction rate, known as 'R', rose since schools opened on April 15 as the virus lockdown was eased.

    According to the data, the 'R rate' increased from 0.6 in mid-April to 0.9 as of yesterday.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8278013/Denmarks-coronavirus-rate-infection-RISEN-0-6-0-9-schools-opened.html

    Germany's number of coronavirus infections have risen for the fifth day in a row and the government are now nervously observing the effects of easing the nationwide lockdown.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8277837/Germany-sees-number-infections-rise-fifth-day-row.html

    We are going to be stop / starting for the next 6 months.

    Do we care about R among Danish schoolchildren? Our early strategy almost encouraged the virus to spread through playgrounds.
    Its the whole population, not the kids.
    That is what I was getting at. If the rise in R is due to the schools reopening and sending R-child rocketing then do we care? Is R-adult rising or are we being misled by unhelpful averaging?
    We care any which way, if it is the little germ spreaders or the parents picking them up, or it could be some other relaxed measure. It is important to find it what exactly is driving it.
    Schools increase use of transport of all types, they increase movement of the general population on the streets, they increase mixing between families and they increase mixing within a family. That adds up.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    What kind of a person doesn't learn from their mistakes? :smiley:
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
    122,000 > 100,000
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    edited May 2020

    So even if the HSJ story is correct, they still did 80k tests.

    Closer to 70k and on 5/4/20 the UK Prime Minister Twitter site said 100k people by the end of the month
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    edited May 2020

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Just had the mother of all hailstorms here in rural Sussex. A thick covering of hail on our patio.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    kinabalu said:

    The most extraordinary aspect of the Michigan story is that carrying arms into the capitol building is apparently perfectly legal.

    Isn't it incredible. You watch a ton of Woody Allen films and think you know America. You don't.
    I don't know, I think the thing about middle aged men lusting after younger women is probably about right.

    The bit about said middle aged men getting lucky, not so much.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,294

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
    Just accept you are wrong BJO.

    We all get it wrong on occasions
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    So even if the HSJ story is correct, they still did 80k tests.

    Closer to 70k and on 5/4/20 the UK Prime Minister Twitter site said 100k people by the end of the month
    The goal has always been the number of tests, that is what Hancock himself said at that press conference.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    It didn't matter if the target was met today or next week either way it would have been a victory.

    The fact the target was met today though when people saying they weren't just makes it all the more impressive.

    It doesn't matter if we win a football match 1-0 or 8-0 it is a win either way but this is an 8-0 victory for the country. Well done everyone.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,119
    edited May 2020

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
    Again, fuck off, you are a miserable scote too. These are people being tested.

    Your desire to see the NHS fail is especially galling as you take your massive NHS pension.....

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    The real story behind the pivot behind testing is going to be fascinating. I think a lot of Sir Humphrey's have spent the last month saying not possible.
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    ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649

    Will heavy rain have any effect on covid.. keep people indoors?

    I presume it is preferable to days of sunshine which tempt people to bend the rules.
    Definitely fewer people on my my late night walks when it's been raining. I love walking out in the rain (or, even better, snow) but, looking out during the day, it's clear that the daily exercisers aren't of the same mind.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    For all Hancock's dodgy counting, that's a far more serious failure, Scotland won't be catching loads of cases. Perhaps it is time for border controls after all.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,190
    I'd have preferred Sanders or Warren, I must admit.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Italy

    Active cases: 100943
    including 1578 (-116) in ICU
    and 1965 new cases
    Deaths: +269 (28236)
    Healed/discharged: +2304 (78249)
    Tests: +74208 (2053425)

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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Andy_JS said:
    “I think there’s a perception out that Sweden has not put in control measures and just has allowed the disease to spread,” Ryan told reporters. “Nothing can be further from the truth.”
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,081
    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    Well they're not posting out 50k tests, that's for sure.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,294

    So even if the HSJ story is correct, they still did 80k tests.

    Closer to 70k and on 5/4/20 the UK Prime Minister Twitter site said 100k people by the end of the month
    You lost your argument BJO

    Have the grace to accept it
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    So even if the HSJ story is correct, they still did 80k tests.

    Closer to 70k and on 5/4/20 the UK Prime Minister Twitter site said 100k people by the end of the month
    No...the HSJ said 50,000 tests sent out, but not all will have been returned . You have to presume a reasonable number have been. Lets say 10,000.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    TimT said:

    But when is gun-carrying in public intimidating and when is it not?

    I believe the police have a two step process:

    - is the person armed with a weapon (any kind, not just assault)?

    and

    - are they black?

    If the answer to both of these questions is "yes", then the weapon carrying is intimidating and the police will shoot the perpetrator.
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    BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    Well, that every single journalists opening question torn up then.

    every single journalist : "au contraire"
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Wales needs a kick up the arse. They just gave up on trying to do 5,000 and they have a big hotspot in Cardiff.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,081
    rcs1000 said:

    TimT said:

    But when is gun-carrying in public intimidating and when is it not?

    I believe the police have a two step process:

    - is the person armed with a weapon (any kind, not just assault)?

    and

    - are they black?

    If the answer to both of these questions is "yes", then the weapon carrying is intimidating and the police will shoot the perpetrator.
    Sometimes it's just the second step.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    The real story behind the pivot behind testing is going to be fascinating. I think a lot of Sir Humphrey's have spent the last month saying not possible.

    It's also noticeable how many private sector companies were thanked. I'm sure there are plenty at PHE who are spitting with rage over this level of involvement, they'd rather not be able to test than have the private sector show them up.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    TimT said:

    But when is gun-carrying in public intimidating and when is it not?

    I believe the police have a two step process:

    - is the person armed with a weapon (any kind, not just assault)?

    and

    - are they black?

    If the answer to both of these questions is "yes", then the weapon carrying is intimidating and the police will shoot the perpetrator.
    In step one for weapon see: mobile phone, hands in pockets, hands moving to pockets, umbrella or empty hands.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    TGOHF666 said:

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
    need a hanky BJO :D
    Need a tissue and a trestle table TGOHF.

    He missed the target set by the @10downingstreet

    Despite changing the rules to include non processed tests, including those not returned, including those not even received by the testee.

    You have fallen for it unsurprisingly
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    Well they're not posting out 50k tests, that's for sure.
    Its 300 fewer tests than were performed on 5th April in Scotland.

    Gone backwards in a month.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Even if some jiggery-pokery, as long as we continue to see high numbers being done, Hancock is fine. If it 100k today, then back down to 50k a day, then there will be some questions being asked.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,894

    Analysis by Denmark's infectious diseases agency the State Serum Institute (SSI) found the so-called reproduction rate, known as 'R', rose since schools opened on April 15 as the virus lockdown was eased.

    According to the data, the 'R rate' increased from 0.6 in mid-April to 0.9 as of yesterday.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8278013/Denmarks-coronavirus-rate-infection-RISEN-0-6-0-9-schools-opened.html

    Germany's number of coronavirus infections have risen for the fifth day in a row and the government are now nervously observing the effects of easing the nationwide lockdown.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8277837/Germany-sees-number-infections-rise-fifth-day-row.html

    We are going to be stop / starting for the next 6 months.

    Do we care about R among Danish schoolchildren? Our early strategy almost encouraged the virus to spread through playgrounds.
    Its the whole population, not the kids.
    That is what I was getting at. If the rise in R is due to the schools reopening and sending R-child rocketing then do we care? Is R-adult rising or are we being misled by unhelpful averaging?
    R is the average number of people that an infected person infects, so what you call R-Child being high, means that children are infecting lots of people, and most people are not adults. It would be no better than a high R-adult.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    MaxPB said:

    The real story behind the pivot behind testing is going to be fascinating. I think a lot of Sir Humphrey's have spent the last month saying not possible.

    It's also noticeable how many private sector companies were thanked. I'm sure there are plenty at PHE who are spitting with rage over this level of involvement, they'd rather not be able to test than have the private sector show them up.
    But the Guardian were briefed that these private companies were shit....no idea who briefed them.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Even if some jiggery-pokery, as long as we continue to see high numbers being done, Hancock is fine. If it 100k today, then back down to 50k a day, then there will be some questions being asked.

    I assume they aren't going to reduce the number of tests being sent out, so it would be surprising for it to slump.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Even if you deduct the dodgy home test kit accounting, the England numbers are miles and miles ahead of Scotland and Wales.
    Scotland and Wales look like the control groups for test numbers that England would have been stuck with without Hancock's target.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,190
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    The most extraordinary aspect of the Michigan story is that carrying arms into the capitol building is apparently perfectly legal.

    Isn't it incredible. You watch a ton of Woody Allen films and think you know America. You don't.
    I don't know, I think the thing about middle aged men lusting after younger women is probably about right.

    The bit about said middle aged men getting lucky, not so much.
    :smile: - laughs them into bed.

    I can do that too. But then what?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Even if some jiggery-pokery, as long as we continue to see high numbers being done, Hancock is fine. If it 100k today, then back down to 50k a day, then there will be some questions being asked.

    Agreed, though noteworthy that it was 80k yesterday so that's already 200k over past 2 days.

    I imagine it might dip over the weekend.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    ukpaul said:

    Does anyone know of a graph of daily deaths by region of those with COVID? We keep seeing the hospitalisations graph in the daily presser but I can't recall seeing this. We see London markedly falling but not much elsewhere, so I was wondering if this is just hospitalisations or if deaths are now also equally spread across the country.

    Is this the sort of thing you are looking for?



    The HSJ does a good daily update breaking down by region


    https://www.hsj.co.uk/news/coronavirus-deaths-mapped-every-region-now-at-least-25-per-cent-below-peak/7027212.article
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    RobD said:

    Even if some jiggery-pokery, as long as we continue to see high numbers being done, Hancock is fine. If it 100k today, then back down to 50k a day, then there will be some questions being asked.

    I assume they aren't going to reduce the number of tests being sent out, so it would be surprising for it to slump.
    Depends if there are enough requests though doesn't it?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    Well they're not posting out 50k tests, that's for sure.
    Why not?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    Pro_Rata said:

    slade said:

    Just checked on the ONS data and found that my township (approx. 8000 people) has had 9 deaths which is quite high compared to other villages and neighbourhoods. But we do have 5 care homes and I am assuming that when they die in hospital they are recorded as coming from their home address(is that right Foxy?)

    Oh dear that's a real local hotspot as you say. No COVID deaths in my ONS neighbourhood, despite being in the town, but I think all the most local care homes are in next door neighbourhoods.
    I am not sure if the data includes all community deaths, and ends on April 17 which is a bit before the main care home outbreaks.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
    Just accept you are wrong BJO.

    We all get it wrong on occasions
    No we changed the way we count tests to include those that we havent even had back in the labs yet and even then we didnt hit the numbers.

    Its like you getting £1,000 from me.

    Up to Tuesday you were only counting it when it was in your bank Account.

    Now you are counting it because you have posted me an envelope for me to put the cheque in.

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    I dont know why the government keep using that chart with the daily death totals rather than date of deaths one.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,294

    TGOHF666 said:

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
    need a hanky BJO :D
    Need a tissue and a trestle table TGOHF.

    He missed the target set by the @10downingstreet

    Despite changing the rules to include non processed tests, including those not returned, including those not even received by the testee.

    You have fallen for it unsurprisingly
    You are giving an impression that you are desperate for HMG to fail for political reasons

    And in this deadly disease that is wrong
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,282
    eadric said:

    Scotland and Wales still rising by hospitalisations, but falling throughout England

    What is going on in the devolved nations?

    We are further down the curve. What it actually shows is that the theory an earlier lockdown in England would have stopped the spread of the virus is, well, mince.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    And time to turn off....

    Lockdown
    Lockdown
    Lockdown
    ....
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    RobD said:

    Even if some jiggery-pokery, as long as we continue to see high numbers being done, Hancock is fine. If it 100k today, then back down to 50k a day, then there will be some questions being asked.

    I assume they aren't going to reduce the number of tests being sent out, so it would be surprising for it to slump.
    Depends if there are enough requests though doesn't it?
    It just has to stay high until contact tracing resumes and tests of frontline workers are further expanded.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,729
    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    For all Hancock's dodgy counting, that's a far more serious failure, Scotland won't be catching loads of cases. Perhaps it is time for border controls after all.
    Completely different approach, targetuing them as opposed to just posting to anyone and his hamster in a tearing panic tractor production style. Also, simply sending out tests at random doesn't in itself help understand the outbreak.

    The actual figure seems to be 49K cumulative tests total on last Sunday - another 7.3K this week if my mental arithmetic is correct, and you need to add the tests done in the "UK" stations in Scotland, for which I don't have data (indeed not sure if they are included in those figures). The pervcent of positive cases is also going down.

    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    MaxPB said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    Well they're not posting out 50k tests, that's for sure.
    Why not?
    10,000 tests a day would be correct for Scotland's population. 2000 is horrendous failure no matter how you cut it.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    Italy

    Active cases: 100943
    including 1578 (-116) in ICU
    and 1965 new cases
    Deaths: +269 (28236)
    Healed/discharged: +2304 (78249)
    Tests: +74208 (2053425)

    It's the continued tracking down of the ICU number that's really encouraging to me. That has basically dropped at 50-100 a day for the last month. And I think the ICU number is a great "backward looking" indicator of where the disease is.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,081
    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    Well they're not posting out 50k tests, that's for sure.
    Its 300 fewer tests than were performed on 5th April in Scotland.

    Gone backwards in a month.
    I know for the umpteenth time you think (erroneously yet again) that you've got your magic SNP killing silver bullet, but you might as well use the correct numbers or folk might think you're talking through your arse on a subject you know nothing about..

    There were 2,537 tests carried out yesterday between hospitals, care homes and the community

    There were also 2,124 test carried out at the regional drive-through testing centres yesterday

    In total, there were 4,661 tests carried out across Scotland yesterday and 22,400 keyworkers or familiy members have now been tested

    Laboratory capacity for coronavirus tests is now 4,350 tests per day, with testing in all 14 NHS areas

    4,350 figure is just for NHS testing. If including Glasgow University lab and other drive through labs, total capacity is now 8,350 tests per day

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,379
    MaxPB said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    Well they're not posting out 50k tests, that's for sure.
    Why not?
    At a random guess - not enough lab capability to process tests.

    As why that is - no push to increase the lab capacity....
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,294

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
    Just accept you are wrong BJO.

    We all get it wrong on occasions
    No we changed the way we count tests to include those that we havent even had back in the labs yet and even then we didnt hit the numbers.

    Its like you getting £1,000 from me.

    Up to Tuesday you were only counting it when it was in your bank Account.

    Now you are counting it because you have posted me an envelope for me to put the cheque in.

    You protest too much
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    ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    Foxy said:

    ukpaul said:

    Does anyone know of a graph of daily deaths by region of those with COVID? We keep seeing the hospitalisations graph in the daily presser but I can't recall seeing this. We see London markedly falling but not much elsewhere, so I was wondering if this is just hospitalisations or if deaths are now also equally spread across the country.

    Is this the sort of thing you are looking for?



    The HSJ does a good daily update breaking down by region


    https://www.hsj.co.uk/news/coronavirus-deaths-mapped-every-region-now-at-least-25-per-cent-below-peak/7027212.article
    Yes, thanks. It shows what I thought with London now back in the pack anda much slower decline in other areas.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    TGOHF666 said:

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
    need a hanky BJO :D
    Need a tissue and a trestle table TGOHF.

    He missed the target set by the @10downingstreet

    Despite changing the rules to include non processed tests, including those not returned, including those not even received by the testee.

    You have fallen for it unsurprisingly
    You are giving an impression that you are desperate for HMG to fail for political reasons

    And in this deadly disease that is wrong
    It's predictable, even 99,999 test would have been a disaster.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    Nightingales will be kept for a month or two longer say PHE guy.

    Did he really mean that?

    They need to be kept until we have passed whatever 2nd wave comes.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    For all Hancock's dodgy counting, that's a far more serious failure, Scotland won't be catching loads of cases. Perhaps it is time for border controls after all.
    Completely different approach, targetuing them as opposed to just posting to anyone and his hamster in a tearing panic tractor production style. Also, simply sending out tests at random doesn't in itself help understand the outbreak.

    The actual figure seems to be 49K cumulative tests total on last Sunday - another 7.3K this week if my mental arithmetic is correct, and you need to add the tests done in the "UK" stations in Scotland, for which I don't have data (indeed not sure if they are included in those figures). The pervcent of positive cases is also going down.

    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker

    14% daily positive tests seems too high, especially five weeks into lockdown, the target should surely to be to get the positive percentage back below 5% which is where it was before the epidemic started to get out of hand.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,716
    kinabalu said:

    I'd have preferred Sanders or Warren, I must admit.
    Yes, but Trump!
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    eadric said:

    The whinge that the government have 'changed' the way they count the tests is garbage. They didn't send out test kits at all previously, so there's no change in the counting method, just an additional category of tests, which is what we all wanted, right?

    This has been the most blatant case of opponents of the government obsessing to find something they can blame them for that I've ever seen. And that's from a very large sample.

    Look at Southam on here. So desperate to fault the government he's been ranting on about the HSJ bollocks, when Hancock beat his target so easily it really doesn't matter how they count them.

    In a generally gloomy and depressing situation, this is proper good news: about the government doing well. It should be seen as such; enough of the carping.

    Please point me to this whinging. They found a way to hit the target they set for themselves. The world will keep on turning.

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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    TGOHF666 said:

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
    need a hanky BJO :D
    Need a tissue and a trestle table TGOHF.

    He missed the target set by the @10downingstreet

    Despite changing the rules to include non processed tests, including those not returned, including those not even received by the testee.

    You have fallen for it unsurprisingly
    You are giving an impression that you are desperate for HMG to fail for political reasons

    And in this deadly disease that is wrong
    No i expect them to be consistent with the way they count them.

    Up until Monday that meant they were counted once they were processed.

    Then we decided to count posted out and not received back. Posted out but not yet received. And even requested a test.

    You would be screaming if anyone else changed how to count them 3 days before a deadline to meet a self imposed target.

    You are giving an impression that you are desperate for HMG to succeed for political reasons even if it has to move the goalposts to do so
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    Well they're not posting out 50k tests, that's for sure.
    Why not?
    10,000 tests a day would be correct for Scotland's population. 2000 is horrendous failure no matter how you cut it.
    Indeed, I was saying so this morning. Questions need to be asked, and as before I'm not making a political point, mass testing is the route out of lockdown. Each day England now has the capacity to test enough people to pursue quite a few ways out of lockdown, it's no use if Scotland hasn't. I'm all for PHE opening up English testing capacity to Scotland, send some of those tests out to Scottish NHS staff and other front line workers who need them and process them in one of the pillar 2 labs. Tbh, I'd be making that offer in public if I were in Hancock's position if the testing situation hasn't improved in Scotland in a few days.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Divvie, I remain gloriously disinterested.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,668
    Rare that I agree with Momentum.....SAGE/NERVTAG/Govt asleep at the wheel.

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1256179319979814912?s=20
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    Well they're not posting out 50k tests, that's for sure.
    Its 300 fewer tests than were performed on 5th April in Scotland.

    Gone backwards in a month.
    I know for the umpteenth time you think (erroneously yet again) that you've got your magic SNP killing silver bullet, but you might as well use the correct numbers or folk might think you're talking through your arse on a subject you know nothing about..

    There were 2,537 tests carried out yesterday between hospitals, care homes and the community

    There were also 2,124 test carried out at the regional drive-through testing centres yesterday

    In total, there were 4,661 tests carried out across Scotland yesterday and 22,400 keyworkers or familiy members have now been tested

    Laboratory capacity for coronavirus tests is now 4,350 tests per day, with testing in all 14 NHS areas

    4,350 figure is just for NHS testing. If including Glasgow University lab and other drive through labs, total capacity is now 8,350 tests per day

    https://twitter.com/scotgov/status/1256207033575051269?s=20

    https://twitter.com/scotgov/status/1255844792950538240?s=20

    56,702-54,639= 2,063

    Unless the Scottish government has got its sums wrong again.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,729

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    For all Hancock's dodgy counting, that's a far more serious failure, Scotland won't be catching loads of cases. Perhaps it is time for border controls after all.
    Completely different approach, targetuing them as opposed to just posting to anyone and his hamster in a tearing panic tractor production style. Also, simply sending out tests at random doesn't in itself help understand the outbreak.

    The actual figure seems to be 49K cumulative tests total on last Sunday - another 7.3K this week if my mental arithmetic is correct, and you need to add the tests done in the "UK" stations in Scotland, for which I don't have data (indeed not sure if they are included in those figures). The pervcent of positive cases is also going down.

    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker

    14% daily positive tests seems too high, especially five weeks into lockdown, the target should surely to be to get the positive percentage back below 5% which is where it was before the epidemic started to get out of hand.
    I wouldn't disagree. I do however now realise that definitely doesn't include people tested in the drive in sites - for which TUD has now found the totals being tested. I imagine they are rather better (being able to drive, and all that).
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,668

    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    Well they're not posting out 50k tests, that's for sure.
    They're not posting out any are they?
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,294
    Notice that Hugh Pym of BBC congratulated Hancock on the testing numbers
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    ABZABZ Posts: 441
    rcs1000 said:

    Italy

    Active cases: 100943
    including 1578 (-116) in ICU
    and 1965 new cases
    Deaths: +269 (28236)
    Healed/discharged: +2304 (78249)
    Tests: +74208 (2053425)

    It's the continued tracking down of the ICU number that's really encouraging to me. That has basically dropped at 50-100 a day for the last month. And I think the ICU number is a great "backward looking" indicator of where the disease is.
    Agreed - also encouraging in the UK on that regard - in Scotland the numbers fell from >200 to 110 by today. I assume this is replicated elsewhere across the country.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,288
    Note that Hugh Pym chose not to question any change in how tests counted.

    But Sam Coates does.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,190
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    I gather from @bigjohnowls on PT that the way tests are counted was changed to hit the target?

    Does it matter? It's just nitpicking now.
    Hmm, not so sure. I gather in the language of the original target - number of people tested - it's 70k not 100k. If so, they should have stuck to that. 70k is a big number and the direction of travel looks good. By frigging it to get the cheap headline they look a bit devious. Risk is erosion of public trust. But OK, not the most ginormous of issues, I'll give you that.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,729
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    I see the 'it's not important if the target isn't met today' lads have miraculously pivoted to 'what a victory for Matt Clem Fitzgerald Hilda Hancock!!!'

    Just 2000 tests in Scotland - WTF is the SNP up to ?
    Well they're not posting out 50k tests, that's for sure.
    Why not?
    10,000 tests a day would be correct for Scotland's population. 2000 is horrendous failure no matter how you cut it.
    Indeed, I was saying so this morning. Questions need to be asked, and as before I'm not making a political point, mass testing is the route out of lockdown. Each day England now has the capacity to test enough people to pursue quite a few ways out of lockdown, it's no use if Scotland hasn't. I'm all for PHE opening up English testing capacity to Scotland, send some of those tests out to Scottish NHS staff and other front line workers who need them and process them in one of the pillar 2 labs. Tbh, I'd be making that offer in public if I were in Hancock's position if the testing situation hasn't improved in Scotland in a few days.
    Those figures need to be modified. See TUD email.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,294

    TGOHF666 said:

    122,000 plus tests

    BOOM!
    So they missed the target of 100,000 people tested despite changing the way they are counted from processed to posted out

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1246710511053475840
    need a hanky BJO :D
    Need a tissue and a trestle table TGOHF.

    He missed the target set by the @10downingstreet

    Despite changing the rules to include non processed tests, including those not returned, including those not even received by the testee.

    You have fallen for it unsurprisingly
    You are giving an impression that you are desperate for HMG to fail for political reasons

    And in this deadly disease that is wrong
    No i expect them to be consistent with the way they count them.

    Up until Monday that meant they were counted once they were processed.

    Then we decided to count posted out and not received back. Posted out but not yet received. And even requested a test.

    You would be screaming if anyone else changed how to count them 3 days before a deadline to meet a self imposed target.

    You are giving an impression that you are desperate for HMG to succeed for political reasons even if it has to move the goalposts to do so
    You have lost the argument
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    Foxy said:

    ukpaul said:

    Does anyone know of a graph of daily deaths by region of those with COVID? We keep seeing the hospitalisations graph in the daily presser but I can't recall seeing this. We see London markedly falling but not much elsewhere, so I was wondering if this is just hospitalisations or if deaths are now also equally spread across the country.

    Is this the sort of thing you are looking for?



    The HSJ does a good daily update breaking down by region


    https://www.hsj.co.uk/news/coronavirus-deaths-mapped-every-region-now-at-least-25-per-cent-below-peak/7027212.article
    Steepest falls in the worst effected areas, that looks like the 'Heard Immunity' effect!
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,190

    kinabalu said:

    I'd have preferred Sanders or Warren, I must admit.
    Yes, but Trump!
    I know many think that. But I sense Trump is unelectable this time.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:
    “I think there’s a perception out that Sweden has not put in control measures and just has allowed the disease to spread,” Ryan told reporters. “Nothing can be further from the truth.”
    That does seem to be a common misunderstanding.

    Everything’s open, just fewer people allowed in - probably where we will be in a month or two
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited May 2020
    So did Hancock make his target or not? Confusing. Smells like a bit of fudge here, but who care's if he just got over or under the line. Compared to where it was, it is a huge improvement. Let's hope it is sustained.

    Either way, it's amazing how motivated politicians become when it's their reputation on the line.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Rare that I agree with Momentum.....SAGE/NERVTAG/Govt asleep at the wheel.

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1256179319979814912?s=20

    Err, have you seen the pictures of the airport terminals? Virtually no-one is coming from high-risk areas, or anywhere much else for that matter, and if they do come they are immediately in lockdown the same as the rest of us. So it's really not an issue at the moment.
This discussion has been closed.