Has he apologised for his fake news over official government advice? Where he published a document that had been altered from the official government one?
A puzzle - £10 to the charity of choice for the winner.
In 1940, the British government kicked off a huge variety of weird and wonderful programs for anti-tank weapons. Why did this cause Admiral King of the US Navy - a noted Anglophobe - to declare his admiration for England, later in the war?
I'm guessing the Hedgehog depth charge launcher was siomething to do with it?
Lukewarm.
Scanning the usual internet sources I can't find a direct link however, my inital hunch was the PIAT was somewhat related to the hedgehog which was some what connected to said Admiral...
It was, using the same type of Torpex shaped charge, launched by a spigot mortar.
The England was, of course, equipped with Hedgehogs, which it used to sink the submarines, (Torpex was one of the technologies shared with the US thanks to the 1940 Tizard mission.)
The naval DMWD worked in partnership with MD1 to adapt the spigot mortar to naval use.
A puzzle - £10 to the charity of choice for the winner.
In 1940, the British government kicked off a huge variety of weird and wonderful programs for anti-tank weapons. Why did this cause Admiral King of the US Navy - a noted Anglophobe - to declare his admiration for England, later in the war?
I'm guessing the Hedgehog depth charge launcher was siomething to do with it?
Lukewarm.
Scanning the usual internet sources I can't find a direct link however, my inital hunch was the PIAT was somewhat related to the hedgehog which was some what connected to said Admiral.
It turns out both the PIAT and Hedgehog systems were derived from the spigot mortar by way of the Blacker Bombard. I found a unsourced tweet claiming the PIAT was tested as an anti-submarine weapon so it must be true..
The Admiral however.. I know the Hedgehog was adopted by the American Navy and statistically it was more effective than previous systems, about 1 kill for every 5 attempts. Whether this was in part due to the advancment of anti-sub techniques I'm not sure.
His acceptance of British convoy strategy in 1942 seems closer to the truth as this coincides with the introduction of the Hegehog into the war. I think that after seeing so many of his ships sunk before 1942 it was the result of using British anti-submarine techniques, intelligence and strategy along with the Hedgehog system that led to him declaring his admiration for England.
I will take that as a winner - the Blacker Bombard was the direct source of the spigot mortar technology which Mad* Major Jefferies had taken to with great enthusiasm at Churchills Toyshop (aka. MD1). This outfit specialised in creating building weapons - generally from non-traditional suppliers and using innovative principles.
As mentioned above, Hedgehog finally became a massive success - after some early problems.
The success of the USS England in destroying 6 Japanese submarines** - usually with the first salvo from it's Hedgehog, caused Admiral King to signal - "There will always be an England, in the US Navy".
* Classic British useful lunatic. Approach with caution recommended. ** A incredible feat - even though the general positions of the patrol line of submarines had been obtained via ULTRA intelligence.
Which charity?
I nominate the RNIB. I did see the England quote in one of the wikis although my leaden brain dscounted it....
Thank you for the question, the wiki rabbit holes were really interesting. Particuarly the 'Second Happy Time' stuff and the intial discounting of convoy techniques. Churchill's quote on the American character definitely came to mind.
I didn't say that, it's a quoting cockup. And i entirely agree with you. I read somewhere reasonably authoritative that 30 % of all deaths in India are not formally recorded anywhere, and only 25% have the cause of death certified by a doctor.
HYUFD has never been anywhere in the third world. He doesn't realise that they do things differently there.
Today's deaths figure is way down on yesterday and 30% down on last Sunday.
Fingers crossed the 3 week extension on lockdown becomes a total farce by the final week with empty hospitals.
They are already empty in many places
No hospital is empty.
I think you must be referring to empty ITU beds.
Maybe the NHS can start to bring back other urgent non Covid appointments
Re lockdown the 3 week extension was the correct thing to do the next decision on this will be more finely balanced
There are some reports in the newspapers today, this exactly the plan. To move less urgent CV cases to Excel, recover that space and then use NHS and private hospitals to start doing non-CV work.
If that is government policy, they may as well tell the entire hospitality and tourism sector to shut down now and warn those areas heavily dependant on it. The sector is not going to survive a 9 or 10 months shutdown.
I don't think people have realised just how bad it will get for that sector.
My friend manages a 96 seat restaurant, if social distancing is going to last long term, then he'll only have space for 30 odd seats, there's no way he's going to make a profit with just 30 odd seats.
Hotels which rely on their bars and restaurants will similarly struggle.
I suppose a lot of things that used to be events, dining out being one of them, will revert to being so again as the prices inevitably rise and restaurants/bars close
I’m not much older than you @isam and yet eating out has always been a treat - both as a kid and today
I just don’t understand people who think it is a right to be served by underpaid and exploited staff rather than doing stuff for themselves
If that is government policy, they may as well tell the entire hospitality and tourism sector to shut down now and warn those areas heavily dependant on it. The sector is not going to survive a 9 or 10 months shutdown.
The government are mad if they think people will put up with not being able to go to a pub or restaurant for ten months.
I suspect people will take matters into their own hands and start running unlicensed premises to fill the gap followed by all the disasters that will then follow such as food and alcohol poisoning etc.
Shakes head - oh the horror of not being able to eat out
There may be a few gibbering idiots who spread Covid around in a hooky-Brakes-Brothers speakeasy, but they probably wouldn't be able to tell whether it was sourced there, or hanging around with their mates in the park, or out with the crowd clapping the NHS.
But most people, in the face of there not *being any pubs or restaurants to go to* will probably take the simplest path of *not going to pubs or restaurants*.
I didn't say that, it's a quoting cockup. And i entirely agree with you. I read somewhere reasonably authoritative that 30 % of all deaths in India are not formally recorded anywhere, and only 25% have the cause of death certified by a doctor.
HYUFD has never been anywhere in the third world. He doesn't realise that they do things differently there.
I didn’t think it was you - I realised it was a quote mess, and tried, unsuccessfully, to fix it. And then was timed out of further edits...
If that is government policy, they may as well tell the entire hospitality and tourism sector to shut down now and warn those areas heavily dependant on it. The sector is not going to survive a 9 or 10 months shutdown.
The government are mad if they think people will put up with not being able to go to a pub or restaurant for ten months.
I suspect people will take matters into their own hands and start running unlicensed premises to fill the gap followed by all the disasters that will then follow such as food and alcohol poisoning etc.
Shakes head - oh the horror of not being able to eat out
There may be a few gibbering idiots who spread Covid around in a hooky-Brakes-Brothers speakeasy, but they probably wouldn't be able to tell whether it was sourced there, or hanging around with their mates in the park, or out with the crowd clapping the NHS.
But most people, in the face of there not *being any pubs or restaurants to go to* will probably take the simplest path of *not going to pubs or restaurants*.
Similarly, twerps with secret Mayfair Michelin hookups. Idiocy does not respect class boundaries.
"Stockholm will reach 'herd immunity' within weeks Claim comes amid bitter debate over success of Sweden's relaxed approach
Sweden's infectious diseases chief has said parts of the country could achieve "herd immunity" as early as next month as debate rages over the rising death toll." (£)
I think the key there is 'currently'. If you believe the figures, which many don't.
Looking at the graphs above, we'll all be talking about Russia, India and Africa a month from now. Possibly Brazil too. These countries all have very dense population centres and relatively poor healthcare.
If it was a disease which affected all ages equally and which killed under 50s at the same rate as over 50s that would be true and India and Africa would be most badly hit.
However it is a disease which most kills over 80s and it is only countries in the West which tend to have life expectancies over 80 so all the evidence so far is it is richer countries in Europe and North America that have been worst hit
It kills over 80s *and the seriously ill.* If Indians are dying in their 60s either they are dying of being seriously ill, or they are dying of old age. In the latter case, they are physiologically equivalent to westerners in their 80s and the virus probably knows more about physiology than it knows about counting to 80. The evidence about its spread to date is explicable on any number of other grounds, and reliable evidence about the current state of affairs in India is nonexistent.
The evidence globally is the disease has the highest mortality rate for over 80s, that is fact.
The evidence is not yet that the disease has the highest mortality rate varying upon the average life expectancy of the country concerned eg late 60s in India, that is just your theory no evidence for it as yet
Facts only get you so far without the most rudimentary grasp of logic.
Thought experiment: We have a hundred story building. Most people leave it by the ground floor, and are fine. Suicidal people sometimes jump off the roof and kill themselves. If we are considering the desirability of jumping from a 90th storey window, how strong an argument is: "The evidence globally is jumping from the roof is fatal, that is fact.
The evidence is not yet that jumping from any storey above about the 4th is likely to be fatal, judging from what we know about gravity and human physiology, that is just your theory no evidence for it as yet."?
I only go on facts and evidence, I have no interest in random theories supposedly based on 'logic' but which have no evidence for them yet.
Plus there have already been plenty of coronavirus cases in India, the evidence is India has a death rate per head lower than the West due to the fact it has fewer over 80s.
In your example nobody had jumped from the 4th floor or higher, just from the roof
So we would have no steer at all from anywhere as to the likely effects of jumping from the 98th floor.
Got you.
No but we do have steer from India where there have been multiple Covid 19 cases and a below average death rate per head, on your example nobody had jumped from the 98th floor at all
Trying to compare statistics between two countries which have vastly different healthcare and reporting systems is more or less futile. The statistics in our own country are subject to massive uncertainty; those in India even more so. Attempting then to compare the two sets of uncertain data multiples that uncertainty.
You’d almost think there would be an xkcd page which describes that sort of thing..... https://xkcd.com/2295/
I didn't say that, it's a quoting cockup. And i entirely agree with you. I read somewhere reasonably authoritative that 30 % of all deaths in India are not formally recorded anywhere, and only 25% have the cause of death certified by a doctor.
HYUFD has never been anywhere in the third world. He doesn't realise that they do things differently there.
The nasty bit about the third world is that what we take as standard (health care, rights etc) applies to a thin layer.
Not the "rich" exactly - people in that layer are often quite poor by our standards. For example - a family member grew up in the house of an Army drill instructor in South America. In no country is that a rich mans job. But they had health care, schooling etc.
But the people at the bottom have nothing. Their deaths not being counted is just government as usual.
Though no one seems to have provided any evidence that his attendance would be expected or necessary.
It may not have been necessary.
The outcry suggests it was expected.
Name any other PM in living memory who would boast about missing even 1, let alone 5?
The outcry suggests that it is thought useful 10 weeks after the fact to claim that it was expected 10 weeks ago.
Do you know that he was "boasting", or merely answering a question that was asked?
I think that to answer your Q would need an FOI to see if attendance is routine. I do not even know, say, how many Cobra meetings there have been since 1980.
I would expect any PM just to discuss what happened, and move on.
Today's deaths figure is way down on yesterday and 30% down on last Sunday.
Fingers crossed the 3 week extension on lockdown becomes a total farce by the final week with empty hospitals.
They are already empty in many places
No hospital is empty.
I think you must be referring to empty ITU beds.
Maybe the NHS can start to bring back other urgent non Covid appointments
Re lockdown the 3 week extension was the correct thing to do the next decision on this will be more finely balanced
There are some reports in the newspapers today, this exactly the plan. To move less urgent CV cases to Excel, recover that space and then use NHS and private hospitals to start doing non-CV work.
yes, it is not far off what they did back in 1919. Isolation of CV patients from as many other people in the health system as possible.
I'm in his corner. It's bonkers that he's not running this effort openly and with full authority - exactly the sort of person we need in charge. Boris can do the inspiring reassurance part.
Or Gordon. Or Starmer. Or possibly Osborne. Basically anyone who sees a problem as something to be solved, not something to make a speech about.
I didn't say that, it's a quoting cockup. And i entirely agree with you. I read somewhere reasonably authoritative that 30 % of all deaths in India are not formally recorded anywhere, and only 25% have the cause of death certified by a doctor.
HYUFD has never been anywhere in the third world. He doesn't realise that they do things differently there.
Before we all got caught up in the current panic, there was a huge news story about the Indian government's attempts to re-register everyone. There's at least tens of millions of Indians who have no record of their life anywhere official. It could actually turn out to be hundreds of millions of completely undocumented people.
"Stockholm will reach 'herd immunity' within weeks Claim comes amid bitter debate over success of Sweden's relaxed approach
Sweden's infectious diseases chief has said parts of the country could achieve "herd immunity" as early as next month as debate rages over the rising death toll." (£)
If that is government policy, they may as well tell the entire hospitality and tourism sector to shut down now and warn those areas heavily dependant on it. The sector is not going to survive a 9 or 10 months shutdown.
I don't think people have realised just how bad it will get for that sector.
My friend manages a 96 seat restaurant, if social distancing is going to last long term, then he'll only have space for 30 odd seats, there's no way he's going to make a profit with just 30 odd seats.
Hotels which rely on their bars and restaurants will similarly struggle.
I suppose a lot of things that used to be events, dining out being one of them, will revert to being so again as the prices inevitably rise and restaurants/bars close
I think it has done for a lot of independent businesses already. The chains will fall into two categories as usual - "overleveraged in the Private Equity merrygoround", and "still able to borrow". The strong brands in the former category will be saved when the merrygoround goes around again.
For disclosure: I have an interest in a catering business, and we are surviving by pivoting entirely to a high quality, cold-food delivery service, which we run ourselves (no Deliveroo etc.). We don't have to support our own premises and relying on the kindness of a colleague whose business is closed and can't pivot, to use their kitchen. We are just able to keep a member of staff on payroll, and keep the brand going, thanks to saving 20% costs on rental and 20% costs on VAT.
We expect to be running in this way until 2021 at least.
The genius over at UW prediction for UK today...deaths between 166 and 4214...They might as well predict between 0 and 10,000, for how accurate that is.
their predictions of hospital beds required are a hoot as well. Today they reckon the UK needs somewhere between 8,132 beds and 132,454 beds.
A puzzle - £10 to the charity of choice for the winner.
In 1940, the British government kicked off a huge variety of weird and wonderful programs for anti-tank weapons. Why did this cause Admiral King of the US Navy - a noted Anglophobe - to declare his admiration for England, later in the war?
I'm guessing the Hedgehog depth charge launcher was siomething to do with it?
Lukewarm.
Scanning the usual internet sources I can't find a direct link however, my inital hunch was the PIAT was somewhat related to the hedgehog which was some what connected to said Admiral.
It turns out both the PIAT and Hedgehog systems were derived from the spigot mortar by way of the Blacker Bombard. I found a unsourced tweet claiming the PIAT was tested as an anti-submarine weapon so it must be true..
The Admiral however.. I know the Hedgehog was adopted by the American Navy and statistically it was more effective than previous systems, about 1 kill for every 5 attempts. Whether this was in part due to the advancment of anti-sub techniques I'm not sure.
His acceptance of British convoy strategy in 1942 seems closer to the truth as this coincides with the introduction of the Hegehog into the war. I think that after seeing so many of his ships sunk before 1942 it was the result of using British anti-submarine techniques, intelligence and strategy along with the Hedgehog system that led to him declaring his admiration for England.
I will take that as a winner - the Blacker Bombard was the direct source of the spigot mortar technology which Mad* Major Jefferies had taken to with great enthusiasm at Churchills Toyshop (aka. MD1). This outfit specialised in creating building weapons - generally from non-traditional suppliers and using innovative principles.
As mentioned above, Hedgehog finally became a massive success - after some early problems.
The success of the USS England in destroying 6 Japanese submarines** - usually with the first salvo from it's Hedgehog, caused Admiral King to signal - "There will always be an England, in the US Navy".
* Classic British useful lunatic. Approach with caution recommended. ** A incredible feat - even though the general positions of the patrol line of submarines had been obtained via ULTRA intelligence.
Which charity?
I nominate the RNIB. I did see the England quote in one of the wikis although my leaden brain dscounted it....
Thank you for the question, the wiki rabbit holes were really interesting. Particuarly the 'Second Happy Time' stuff and the intial discounting of convoy techniques. Churchill's quote on the American character definitely came to mind.
A puzzle - £10 to the charity of choice for the winner.
In 1940, the British government kicked off a huge variety of weird and wonderful programs for anti-tank weapons. Why did this cause Admiral King of the US Navy - a noted Anglophobe - to declare his admiration for England, later in the war?
I'm guessing the Hedgehog depth charge launcher was siomething to do with it?
Lukewarm.
Scanning the usual internet sources I can't find a direct link however, my inital hunch was the PIAT was somewhat related to the hedgehog which was some what connected to said Admiral.
It turns out both the PIAT and Hedgehog systems were derived from the spigot mortar by way of the Blacker Bombard. I found a unsourced tweet claiming the PIAT was tested as an anti-submarine weapon so it must be true..
The Admiral however.. I know the Hedgehog was adopted by the American Navy and statistically it was more effective than previous systems, about 1 kill for every 5 attempts. Whether this was in part due to the advancment of anti-sub techniques I'm not sure.
His acceptance of British convoy strategy in 1942 seems closer to the truth as this coincides with the introduction of the Hegehog into the war. I think that after seeing so many of his ships sunk before 1942 it was the result of using British anti-submarine techniques, intelligence and strategy along with the Hedgehog system that led to him declaring his admiration for England.
I will take that as a winner - the Blacker Bombard was the direct source of the spigot mortar technology which Mad* Major Jefferies had taken to with great enthusiasm at Churchills Toyshop (aka. MD1). This outfit specialised in creating building weapons - generally from non-traditional suppliers and using innovative principles.
As mentioned above, Hedgehog finally became a massive success - after some early problems.
The success of the USS England in destroying 6 Japanese submarines** - usually with the first salvo from it's Hedgehog, caused Admiral King to signal - "There will always be an England, in the US Navy".
* Classic British useful lunatic. Approach with caution recommended. ** A incredible feat - even though the general positions of the patrol line of submarines had been obtained via ULTRA intelligence.
Which charity?
I nominate the RNIB. I did see the England quote in one of the wikis although my leaden brain dscounted it....
Thank you for the question, the wiki rabbit holes were really interesting. Particuarly the 'Second Happy Time' stuff and the intial discounting of convoy techniques. Churchill's quote on the American character definitely came to mind.
Major Jeffiries is an interesting subject.
I think, when I retire, I will write a book entitled "Useful Lunatics" - a study of people like him.
William Godfray de Lisle firing his prototype for the most silent gun ever built from the roof a London hotel....
If that is government policy, they may as well tell the entire hospitality and tourism sector to shut down now and warn those areas heavily dependant on it. The sector is not going to survive a 9 or 10 months shutdown.
I don't think people have realised just how bad it will get for that sector.
My friend manages a 96 seat restaurant, if social distancing is going to last long term, then he'll only have space for 30 odd seats, there's no way he's going to make a profit with just 30 odd seats.
Hotels which rely on their bars and restaurants will similarly struggle.
I suppose a lot of things that used to be events, dining out being one of them, will revert to being so again as the prices inevitably rise and restaurants/bars close
I’m not much older than you @isam and yet eating out has always been a treat - both as a kid and today
I just don’t understand people who think it is a right to be served by underpaid and exploited staff rather than doing stuff for themselves
Perhaps because many of them are also underpaid and exploited... Who do you think makes up the majority of McDonalds’ customers, for example ?
Fast food is simply a result of Adam Smith style specialisation of an economic activity. Looked at purely in that respect, it makes sense.
A puzzle - £10 to the charity of choice for the winner.
In 1940, the British government kicked off a huge variety of weird and wonderful programs for anti-tank weapons. Why did this cause Admiral King of the US Navy - a noted Anglophobe - to declare his admiration for England, later in the war?
I'm guessing the Hedgehog depth charge launcher was siomething to do with it?
Lukewarm.
Scanning the usual internet sources I can't find a direct link however, my inital hunch was the PIAT was somewhat related to the hedgehog which was some what connected to said Admiral.
It turns out both the PIAT and Hedgehog systems were derived from the spigot mortar by way of the Blacker Bombard. I found a unsourced tweet claiming the PIAT was tested as an anti-submarine weapon so it must be true..
The Admiral however.. I know the Hedgehog was adopted by the American Navy and statistically it was more effective than previous systems, about 1 kill for every 5 attempts. Whether this was in part due to the advancment of anti-sub techniques I'm not sure.
His acceptance of British convoy strategy in 1942 seems closer to the truth as this coincides with the introduction of the Hegehog into the war. I think that after seeing so many of his ships sunk before 1942 it was the result of using British anti-submarine techniques, intelligence and strategy along with the Hedgehog system that led to him declaring his admiration for England.
I will take that as a winner - the Blacker Bombard was the direct source of the spigot mortar technology which Mad* Major Jefferies had taken to with great enthusiasm at Churchills Toyshop (aka. MD1). This outfit specialised in creating building weapons - generally from non-traditional suppliers and using innovative principles.
As mentioned above, Hedgehog finally became a massive success - after some early problems.
The success of the USS England in destroying 6 Japanese submarines** - usually with the first salvo from it's Hedgehog, caused Admiral King to signal - "There will always be an England, in the US Navy".
* Classic British useful lunatic. Approach with caution recommended. ** A incredible feat - even though the general positions of the patrol line of submarines had been obtained via ULTRA intelligence.
Which charity?
I nominate the RNIB. I did see the England quote in one of the wikis although my leaden brain dscounted it....
Thank you for the question, the wiki rabbit holes were really interesting. Particuarly the 'Second Happy Time' stuff and the intial discounting of convoy techniques. Churchill's quote on the American character definitely came to mind.
The captain of the USS England must have built an extremely effective, cohesive and well trained crew to achieve that - success with Hedgehog required exactly that.
If that is government policy, they may as well tell the entire hospitality and tourism sector to shut down now and warn those areas heavily dependant on it. The sector is not going to survive a 9 or 10 months shutdown.
I don't think people have realised just how bad it will get for that sector.
My friend manages a 96 seat restaurant, if social distancing is going to last long term, then he'll only have space for 30 odd seats, there's no way he's going to make a profit with just 30 odd seats.
Hotels which rely on their bars and restaurants will similarly struggle.
I suppose a lot of things that used to be events, dining out being one of them, will revert to being so again as the prices inevitably rise and restaurants/bars close
I think it has done for a lot of independent businesses already. The chains will fall into two categories as usual - "overleveraged in the Private Equity merrygoround", and "still able to borrow". The strong brands in the former category will be saved when the merrygoround goes around again.
For disclosure: I have an interest in a catering business, and we are surviving by pivoting entirely to a high quality, cold-food delivery service, which we run ourselves (no Deliveroo etc.). We don't have to support our own premises and relying on the kindness of a colleague whose business is closed and can't pivot, to use their kitchen. We are just able to keep a member of staff on payroll, and keep the brand going, thanks to saving 20% costs on rental and 20% costs on VAT.
We expect to be running in this way until 2021 at least.
Cold delivered - so the client heats in their oven? Smart.
Today's deaths figure is way down on yesterday and 30% down on last Sunday.
Fingers crossed the 3 week extension on lockdown becomes a total farce by the final week with empty hospitals.
They are already empty in many places
No hospital is empty.
I think you must be referring to empty ITU beds.
Maybe the NHS can start to bring back other urgent non Covid appointments
Re lockdown the 3 week extension was the correct thing to do the next decision on this will be more finely balanced
My local hospital is begging for nurses to work in ICU so I think we can take it they are still busy.
I saw the death figures from there this morning, very sobering
Absolutely agree with that Floater
My hospital now has 26 of 32 ventilators in use and has had 63 deaths in last 3 weeks
High point was 13/4/20 when only 1 vent was spare
The pre Covid Vent capacity was 22 so still using some of boosted Capacity
These people who obsess about ending the already looser than some countries "lockdown" have their priorities completely wrong.
The debate about exactly when to end the lockdown is a pretty futile argument anyway.
The real discussion (which for some reason the government refuses to engage in) ought to be about what plans are being made for coming out of lockdown, while keeping things under control, when that does finally happen.
I didn't say that, it's a quoting cockup. And i entirely agree with you. I read somewhere reasonably authoritative that 30 % of all deaths in India are not formally recorded anywhere, and only 25% have the cause of death certified by a doctor.
HYUFD has never been anywhere in the third world. He doesn't realise that they do things differently there.
Wrong, I have been to Nablus in the Palestinian authority which is third world on any definition
I think the key there is 'currently'. If you believe the figures, which many don't.
Looking at the graphs above, we'll all be talking about Russia, India and Africa a month from now. Possibly Brazil too. These countries all have very dense population centres and relatively poor healthcare.
If it was a disease which affected all ages equally and which killed under 50s at the same rate as over 50s that would be true and India and Africa would be most badly hit.
However it is a disease which most kills over 80s and it is only countries in the West which tend to have life expectancies over 80 so all the evidence so far is it is richer countries in Europe and North America that have been worst hit
It kills over 80s *and the seriously ill.* If Indians are dying in their 60s either they are dying of being seriously ill, or they are dying of old age. In the latter case, they are physiologically equivalent to westerners in their 80s and the virus probably knows more about physiology than it knows about counting to 80. The evidence about its spread to date is explicable on any number of other grounds, and reliable evidence about the current state of affairs in India is nonexistent.
The evidence globally is the disease has the highest mortality rate for over 80s, that is fact.
The evidence is not yet that the disease has the highest mortality rate varying upon the average life expectancy of the country concerned eg late 60s in India, that is just your theory no evidence for it as yet
Facts only get you so far without the most rudimentary grasp of logic.
Thought experiment: We have a hundred story building. Most people leave it by the ground floor, and are fine. Suicidal people sometimes jump off the roof and kill themselves. If we are considering the desirability of jumping from a 90th storey window, how strong an argument is: "The evidence globally is jumping from the roof is fatal, that is fact.
The evidence is not yet that jumping from any storey above about the 4th is likely to be fatal, judging from what we know about gravity and human physiology, that is just your theory no evidence for it as yet."?
I only go on facts and evidence, I have no interest in random theories supposedly based on 'logic' but which have no evidence for them yet.
Plus there have already been plenty of coronavirus cases in India, the evidence is India has a death rate per head lower than the West due to the fact it has fewer over 80s.
In your example nobody had jumped from the 4th floor or higher, just from the roof
So we would have no steer at all from anywhere as to the likely effects of jumping from the 98th floor.
Got you.
No but we do have steer from India where there have been multiple Covid 19 cases and a below average death rate per head, on your example nobody had jumped from the 98th floor at all
Trying to compare statistics between two countries which have vastly different healthcare and reporting systems is more or less futile. The statistics in our own country are subject to massive uncertainty; those in India even more so. Attempting then to compare the two sets of uncertain data multiples that uncertainty.
You’d almost think there would be an xkcd page which describes that sort of thing..... https://xkcd.com/2295/
I didn't say that, it's a quoting cockup. And i entirely agree with you. I read somewhere reasonably authoritative that 30 % of all deaths in India are not formally recorded anywhere, and only 25% have the cause of death certified by a doctor.
HYUFD has never been anywhere in the third world. He doesn't realise that they do things differently there.
You also have zero evidence of a high death rate in India, you are just clasping at straws to prove your theory that Covid 19 mortality depends on the average life expectancy of the country in question rather than being highest in over 80s with zero evidence to back it up
Excellent Ch4 series on Putin - which I think sums him up well - he's a weak man whose only focus is hanging on to power. He must be terrified by the knowledge that nothing lasts forever.
I didn't say that, it's a quoting cockup. And i entirely agree with you. I read somewhere reasonably authoritative that 30 % of all deaths in India are not formally recorded anywhere, and only 25% have the cause of death certified by a doctor.
HYUFD has never been anywhere in the third world. He doesn't realise that they do things differently there.
Wrong, I have been to Nablus in the Palestinian authority which is third world on any definition
Comments
Thank you for the question, the wiki rabbit holes were really interesting. Particuarly the 'Second Happy Time' stuff and the intial discounting of convoy techniques. Churchill's quote on the American character definitely came to mind.
The outcry suggests it was expected.
Name any other PM in living memory who would boast about missing even 1, let alone 5?
I didn't say that, it's a quoting cockup. And i entirely agree with you. I read somewhere reasonably authoritative that 30 % of all deaths in India are not formally recorded anywhere, and only 25% have the cause of death certified by a doctor.
HYUFD has never been anywhere in the third world. He doesn't realise that they do things differently there.
I just don’t understand people who think it is a right to be served by underpaid and exploited staff rather than doing stuff for themselves
I saw the death figures from there this morning, very sobering
But most people, in the face of there not *being any pubs or restaurants to go to* will probably take the simplest path of *not going to pubs or restaurants*.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8233479/PETER-HITCHENS-five-weeks-mad-lockdown-panic-actually-good.html
Hmmm....not crashing the NHS?
Looks like our peak infections post-lockdown were actually around 3 weeks ago, maybe 100k (!!) per day, and by now say a quarter of that.
And then was timed out of further edits...
Claim comes amid bitter debate over success of Sweden's relaxed approach
Sweden's infectious diseases chief has said parts of the country could achieve "herd immunity" as early as next month as debate rages over the rising death toll." (£)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/18/stockholm-will-reach-herd-immunity-within-weeks
Do you know that he was "boasting", or merely answering a question that was asked?
I think that to answer your Q would need an FOI to see if attendance is routine. I do not even know, say, how many Cobra meetings there have been since 1980.
I would expect any PM just to discuss what happened, and move on.
Or Gordon. Or Starmer. Or possibly Osborne. Basically anyone who sees a problem as something to be solved, not something to make a speech about.
NEW THREAD
Estimated at 11% a few days ago.
My hospital now has 26 of 32 ventilators in use and has had 63 deaths in last 3 weeks
High point was 13/4/20 when only 1 vent was spare
The pre Covid Vent capacity was 22 so still using some of boosted Capacity
These people who obsess about ending the already looser than some countries "lockdown" have their priorities completely wrong.
For disclosure: I have an interest in a catering business, and we are surviving by pivoting entirely to a high quality, cold-food delivery service, which we run ourselves (no Deliveroo etc.). We don't have to support our own premises and relying on the kindness of a colleague whose business is closed and can't pivot, to use their kitchen. We are just able to keep a member of staff on payroll, and keep the brand going, thanks to saving 20% costs on rental and 20% costs on VAT.
We expect to be running in this way until 2021 at least.
Today they reckon the UK needs somewhere between 8,132 beds and 132,454 beds.
Is there a reason that you want to misrepresent what is going on there?
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/meet-uss-england-escort-destroyer-sunk-6-imperial-japanese-submarines-104217
Being a super-super-pendant, the only succeeded on the first run on 3 out of 6, not "most".
:-o
I think, when I retire, I will write a book entitled "Useful Lunatics" - a study of people like him.
William Godfray de Lisle firing his prototype for the most silent gun ever built from the roof a London hotel....
Donation made, by the way.
Who do you think makes up the majority of McDonalds’ customers, for example ?
Fast food is simply a result of Adam Smith style specialisation of an economic activity. Looked at purely in that respect, it makes sense.
The real discussion (which for some reason the government refuses to engage in) ought to be about what plans are being made for coming out of lockdown, while keeping things under control, when that does finally happen.
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/putin-a-russian-spy-story/on-demand/69173-001