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I honestly think it's more just that whilst Boris is not that complicated in the way he operates, he also doesn't neatly fit into certain boxes the way people wish he would. I mean, I think he's a bit of an arse but no doubt there's evidence out there of him being decent occasionally after all.RobD said:
Another symptom of BDS?FrancisUrquhart said:
More recently he has been portrayed as the opposite. Not right wing authoritarian enough, with his limp approach to a lockdown....Malmesbury said:
One thing that is correct, is trying to portray Johnson as a right wing, foaming at the mouth extremist doesn't work.WhisperingOracle said:
All good, except Brexit was never the common ground ; quite the opposite. This is an attempt to conflate Johnson's broadly ideologically flexible liberalism, which he's had for many years, with his stance on Brexit, which emerges from somewhere quite different, and something quite different in him.geoffw said:Patrick O'Flynn gets it (as usual)
This is not a premier anchored to ideology, just one who has what might be termed 'ceteris paribus inclinations' that he is ready to temper given the course of events.
Johnson has long had a nose for what Sir Keith Joseph termed 'the common ground' and had already occupied it on everything from getting Brexit done, to tougher law and order and more generous NHS funding before the Covid-19 crisis erupted. Attempts by left-wing politicians and pundits, mired as they are in minority sensibilities, to depict him as a right-wing extremist are not only doomed to failure but will appear increasingly off-the-wall to normal members of the public.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/Boris-s-coronavirus-pragmatism-is-confounding-his-critics
Remember the hilarious campaign against him on his first run for Mayor - trying too portray him as BNP-lite? Had everyone I knew going WTF??0 -
Anyone have a couple of quadrillion gallows ready to go?eristdoof said:
Appeasement is no solution. He's a dangerous killer, who's enlisting thousands of new supporters every day. Prison's too good for him. He should be hanged.DougSeal said:Don’t shoot the messenger- I’m just throwing this out there. Has anyone considered actually sitting down and talking with Covid-19? We may be able to reach a negotiated solution.
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More evidence of a rally to the leader effect:
https://twitter.com/COdendahl/status/1243654522024742913?s=192 -
whilst flying about the country with the virus and breaking all the rules the plebs get beat up for, but hey make a crappy speech and it is all right, get up off your belly.Malmesbury said:
So highlighting an actual problem and encouraging people to reach out to the societal provisions for dealing with that problem makes you an arse?malcolmg said:look at this from the EBC
BBC Scotland insists it cannot provide health broadcasts in Scotland, for staffing and cost reasons. The Scottish Government provides daily updates. Question, so where is the cost to them in running these?
She is an arse, she should practice what she preaches to the plebs or send helicopters round to everyone so they can chose which one of their other houses/mansions/castles they want to go to , thereby breaking the stay at home message.HYUFD said:
She was talking about domestic violence and her comments were well mademalcolmg said:Have these people no self awareness or principles
https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1243858434866532353
Your post also highlights what an absolute arse you are.
There's a big chunk of timber stuck in your eye, friend.0 -
She is in ScotlandHYUFD said:
She is staying at Clarence House herself and she made the speech you attacked, not Charles.malcolmg said:look at this from the EBC
BBC Scotland insists it cannot provide health broadcasts in Scotland, for staffing and cost reasons. The Scottish Government provides daily updates. Question, so where is the cost to them in running these?
She is an arse, she should practice what she preaches to the plebs or send helicopters round to everyone so they can chose which one of their other houses/mansions/castles they want to go to , thereby breaking the stay at home message.HYUFD said:
She was talking about domestic violence and her comments were well mademalcolmg said:Have these people no self awareness or principles
https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1243858434866532353
Your post also highlights what an absolute arse you are.
The fact you decided to abuse her for making a speech about domestic violence says more about you than me0 -
Solitary confinement for the rest of his days.eristdoof said:
Appeasement is no solution. He's a dangerous killer, who's enlisting thousands of new supporters every day. Prison's too good for him. He should be hanged.DougSeal said:Don’t shoot the messenger- I’m just throwing this out there. Has anyone considered actually sitting down and talking with Covid-19? We may be able to reach a negotiated solution.
Then we haven't had to stoop to his level.
(And no opportunities for politicians to lay wreaths...)
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https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-try-to-calm-storm-over-repugnant-finance-ministers-comments/kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.
0 -
Surprised it wasn't that before the crisis, to be honest. She seems very popular.Foxy said:More evidence of a rally to the leader effect:
https://twitter.com/COdendahl/status/1243654522024742913?s=190 -
And hadn't her hand picked successor stepped down as not up to the job? Perhaps she'll need to run again next year after all.Foxy said:More evidence of a rally to the leader effect:
https://twitter.com/COdendahl/status/1243654522024742913?s=192 -
I just pray it returns to some sense of normality as soon as possible, I’ve no chance of any treatment at the moment so attempting to remain calm and stoic.SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21 people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.1 -
Is the UK on the hook for these new bonds, too?SouthamObserver said:
https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-try-to-calm-storm-over-repugnant-finance-ministers-comments/kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21 people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.0 -
Current opinion polling is meaningless right now. Johnson's virus opportunity is to present himself as a serious politician tackling a serious problem.
Which he hasn't done much of up to now. The virus neutralises one of his biggest negatives.0 -
Are you saying it’s Impossible for someone to have big rally round surge when their dithering created the scale of the mess? I’m not. 🙂HYUFD said:
George W Bush was re elected.egg said:
With the mess up Boris and Trump made at the start of the crisis, wasted the extra time given them in muddled strategy and communication, this rally round flag bounce feels like when someone has crossed line first in GP, but we all know there was that incident, it’s going to be looked at, and they are going to be severely demoted.RobD said:
Oh baby.williamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
Off the top of my head George Wubulya Bush started at 55 surged to 80 and dropped to 40 during 9/11 rally round.
On the Rally Round the flag in crisis history, do facts get re written. Churchill, world war 2 for example. When people sell Churchill they sell the Great War leader, unfatiguable determination, rousing rhetoric that lifted a nation. I understand when he toured bombed city’s he was roundly boo’d, and then thoroughly stuffed at the polls as soon as GE came along. So that also screws the correct history of the Incoming Labour administration, on the grounds they would have to have made a fantastic connection with voters to have beaten Churchill surely, when the true answer is no, they didn’t. They just were not the unpopular Churchill.
Churchill would have won a landslide in a 1940 general election, by July 1945 the war in Europe was won and the Tories had been in power over a decade
I’m dealing in facts here not comparing current polling with normal polling but with the rally round surge that comes in crisis. That’s the true comparison. Hence Trumps virtually non movement is very bad for him.0 -
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.1 -
We're not giving you our credit card, or words to that effect.kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21 people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.0 -
I read that those videos were of apartments being repossessed and secured and nothing to do with the virus.FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.0 -
Add some turmeric?matthiasfromhamburg said:
Slightly disappointing, according to my friend. He prefers them a little more 'spicy'.Foxy said:
I would certainly recommend washing them first...matthiasfromhamburg said:
Dear Dr Foxy, are the garments supposed to be more protective when they are well worn in?Foxy said:Video had emerged from Penarth. Watch until the end...
https://twitter.com/ClareGerada/status/1243812935992061952?s=19
Asking for a friend.
Seriously though, is just a scarf or thong better than nothing. Technically common and garden face masks offered no protection anyway? So all we are doing is making a show so those around us feel a bit easier we are not breathing or worse on them?
So a scarf? A snood? Thong.0 -
No, they would be for the Eurozone countries.RobD said:
Is the UK on the hook for these new bonds, too?SouthamObserver said:
https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-try-to-calm-storm-over-repugnant-finance-ministers-comments/kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21 people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.
1 -
Two months ago it was still in the mid to high 50s.RobD said:
Surprised it wasn't that before the crisis, to be honest. She seems very popular.Foxy said:More evidence of a rally to the leader effect:
https://twitter.com/COdendahl/status/1243654522024742913?s=190 -
You don't understand how such dictatorial governments think - and this is one that is trying to eliminate an entire culture though re-education camps...FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.2 -
A lot of rhe outdoor videos supposedly from Wuhan showed trees full of leaves when it was actually the middle of winter there.DAlexander said:
I read that those videos were of apartments being repossessed and secured and nothing to do with the virus.FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.
0 -
Heartwarming stuff.MaxPB said:
We're not giving you our credit card, or words to that effect.kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21 people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.1 -
I believe the widespread approach was uses of additional sensors on top of all the usual surveillance systems they have in place to make sure people where obeying the rules. They also placed big speaker system in neighbourhoods, in which they would order things like the time "tower 1" could come out for their walk and when they had to go back inside.DAlexander said:
I read that those videos were of apartments being repossessed and secured and nothing to do with the virus.FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.
Also, it is a hell of a lot easier to enforce social compliance, when rather than a £30 fine, they have tools like loss of social credit score which can effect your whole life to being sent to a labour camp.0 -
He is a thick numptyIshmaelZ said:
She is in ScotlandHYUFD said:
She is staying at Clarence House herself and she made the speech you attacked, not Charles.malcolmg said:look at this from the EBC
BBC Scotland insists it cannot provide health broadcasts in Scotland, for staffing and cost reasons. The Scottish Government provides daily updates. Question, so where is the cost to them in running these?
She is an arse, she should practice what she preaches to the plebs or send helicopters round to everyone so they can chose which one of their other houses/mansions/castles they want to go to , thereby breaking the stay at home message.HYUFD said:
She was talking about domestic violence and her comments were well mademalcolmg said:Have these people no self awareness or principles
https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1243858434866532353
Your post also highlights what an absolute arse you are.
The fact you decided to abuse her for making a speech about domestic violence says more about you than me0 -
No, but it doesn't matter because they will never happen. Instead governments will write their own paper and the ECB will buy it.RobD said:
Is the UK on the hook for these new bonds, too?SouthamObserver said:
https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-try-to-calm-storm-over-repugnant-finance-ministers-comments/kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21 people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.0 -
wouldn't that be a laugh given the oft repeated Brexit is Done , on here.RobD said:
Is the UK on the hook for these new bonds, too?SouthamObserver said:
https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-try-to-calm-storm-over-repugnant-finance-ministers-comments/kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21 people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.0 -
No idea. I do note though from Defoe Journal of the Plague Year that it was the absolutely standard way of dealing with cases, and the most horrific aspect of the whole thing, to seal up houses with known cases and put a watchman on the door to prevent escapes.FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.0 -
Cold hearted but fair.kle4 said:
Heartwarming stuff.MaxPB said:
We're not giving you our credit card, or words to that effect.kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21 people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.0 -
OK. The article suggests it was all EU members, not just eurozone.SouthamObserver said:
No, they would be for the Eurozone countries.RobD said:
Is the UK on the hook for these new bonds, too?SouthamObserver said:
https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-try-to-calm-storm-over-repugnant-finance-ministers-comments/kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21 people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.0 -
The dangerous thing about Trump is that he has convinced his thick core voters that everything in the "lamestream" media is lies and Fake News. Only he and Fox News speak the truth. You have to give him credit for pulling that off, Josef Goebbels would have been proud.ydoethur said:
Let’s not write him off yet, he’s somehow sustained the impression he’s sane for four years.david_herdson said:
Yes, but his ratings are up because the public think he's doing a wonderful job on Covid-19. How does he sustain that impression for seven months?HYUFD said:I still think Trump will win but relatively narrowly, all Biden has done is ensure it will be close as the Democrats did when they picked Kerry over Dean in 2004 against President Bush or the Republicans did in 2012 when they picked Romney over Santorum or Gingrich.
Trump's rating is still only hovering around 50% which means he was not going to be re elected by a landslide provided the Democrats picked a centrist alternative, however his ratings are up on the 35 to 40% they were for most of last year which means he is no longer at Carter 1980 levels and a sitting duck0 -
Not categorically impossible, but unlikely.kle4 said:
And hadn't her hand picked successor stepped down as not up to the job? Perhaps she'll need to run again next year after all.Foxy said:More evidence of a rally to the leader effect:
https://twitter.com/COdendahl/status/1243654522024742913?s=19
The CV crisis does have reshuffeled the cards, though. Merz has been taken out literally by the virus, Laschet figuratively so. Spahn has been able to raise his profile considerably, Röttgen has been forgotten.
The new frontrunner for the Union candidature is the CSU's Markus Söder, Spahn for the CDU chair.1 -
Yes and remember the videos of people collapsing in the street?SouthamObserver said:
A lot of rhe outdoor videos supposedly from Wuhan showed trees full of leaves when it was actually the middle of winter there.DAlexander said:
I read that those videos were of apartments being repossessed and secured and nothing to do with the virus.FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.
That hasn't happened anywhere else with the virus, so was probably completely unrelated.0 -
So if it was just a few hundred blocks where infected people were living, rather than "significant" numbers, that makes it okay?FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.
Or if it was a local mayor's policy, rather than the central government's?
China only achieved what they have (if you believe their numbers in the first place, which I doubt), by pivoting from ignoring the problem to having the army on the streets unafraid to shoot people for leaving their houses, within a couple of days.
Actions that are not compatible with anything approaching a democratic nation. Quarantines and curfews are one thing, the actions of the Chinese quite another.0 -
I thought there were similar stories from Italy?DAlexander said:
Yes and remember the videos of people collapsing in the street?SouthamObserver said:
A lot of rhe outdoor videos supposedly from Wuhan showed trees full of leaves when it was actually the middle of winter there.DAlexander said:
I read that those videos were of apartments being repossessed and secured and nothing to do with the virus.FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.
That hasn't happened anywhere else with the virus, so was probably completely unrelated.0 -
She is popular with the population in the political middle. Those voting AfD are not so enamoured with her.RobD said:
Surprised it wasn't that before the crisis, to be honest. She seems very popular.Foxy said:More evidence of a rally to the leader effect:
https://twitter.com/COdendahl/status/1243654522024742913?s=19
I think it is fair to say that many who don't support the CDU still like her approach and way of governing. She also has quite a knack of being a Teflon Leader, partly because she let's her cabinet deal with making announcements, and only steps in when a problem gets too large, like she has done with the pandemic. The only difficult situation for which the blame did stick with her was the assylum crisis.0 -
I'd read that Söder was having a good war, how do you rate his chances? My reading is that he will fall down at the same stage other CSU leaders have when trying to run for Union leader.matthiasfromhamburg said:
Not categorically impossible, but unlikely.kle4 said:
And hadn't her hand picked successor stepped down as not up to the job? Perhaps she'll need to run again next year after all.Foxy said:More evidence of a rally to the leader effect:
https://twitter.com/COdendahl/status/1243654522024742913?s=19
The CV crisis does have reshuffeled the cards, though. Merz has been taken out literally by the virus, Laschet figuratively so. Spahn has been able to raise his profile considerably, Röttgen has been forgotten.
The new frontrunner for the Union candidature is the CSU's Markus Söder, Spahn for the CDU chair.0 -
I think a CSU Kanzlerkandidat would be bad for the CDU in a national election.matthiasfromhamburg said:
Not categorically impossible, but unlikely.kle4 said:
And hadn't her hand picked successor stepped down as not up to the job? Perhaps she'll need to run again next year after all.Foxy said:More evidence of a rally to the leader effect:
https://twitter.com/COdendahl/status/1243654522024742913?s=19
The CV crisis does have reshuffeled the cards, though. Merz has been taken out literally by the virus, Laschet figuratively so. Spahn has been able to raise his profile considerably, Röttgen has been forgotten.
The new frontrunner for the Union candidature is the CSU's Markus Söder, Spahn for the CDU chair.0 -
And there is an epistemological point here. Even if the commenter were a highly respected sinologist who had lived in Wuhan for 40 years, "seriously doubt" and "certainly" would be massively overconfident statements about what this particular government would do in this particular crisis. Let's accept that there are unknowns out there.Sandpit said:
So if it was just a few hundred blocks where infected people were living, rather than "significant" numbers, that makes it okay?FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.
Or if it was a local mayor's policy, rather than the central government's?
China only achieved what they have (if you believe their numbers in the first place, which I doubt), by pivoting from ignoring the problem to having the army on the streets unafraid to shoot people for leaving their houses, within a couple of days.
Actions that are not compatible with anything approaching a democratic nation. Quarantines and curfews are one thing, the actions of the Chinese quite another.1 -
I'm sure all the 'Nicola Knew' stuff is being kept in reserve for when everyone has stopped coughing.DavidL said:
I was slightly surprised that there was no uplift in the SNP vote although national polls like this are quite crude. Nicola has done very well through this so far and has possibly had a stroke of luck in the Salmond trial which got far, far less coverage than it would in normal times.Theuniondivvie said:
*biggest Tory poll lead in Wangland.HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=210 -
Strauss in '80 was the most controversial figure you could imagine, giving him the candidature was a cunning ruse by Kohl, he never stood a realistic chance against Schmidt.MaxPB said:
I'd read that Söder was having a good war, how do you rate his chances? My reading is that he will fall down at the same stage other CSU leaders have when trying to run for Union leader.matthiasfromhamburg said:
Not categorically impossible, but unlikely.kle4 said:
And hadn't her hand picked successor stepped down as not up to the job? Perhaps she'll need to run again next year after all.Foxy said:More evidence of a rally to the leader effect:
https://twitter.com/COdendahl/status/1243654522024742913?s=19
The CV crisis does have reshuffeled the cards, though. Merz has been taken out literally by the virus, Laschet figuratively so. Spahn has been able to raise his profile considerably, Röttgen has been forgotten.
The new frontrunner for the Union candidature is the CSU's Markus Söder, Spahn for the CDU chair.
Stoiber was in with a shot in '02 but lacked the media savvy.
Söder would have been a much better candidate even before the crisis took off, and, as I said, must be considered the frontrunner now, with a good chance to win a clear plurality, at the least.2 -
Opinions vary on that. In my estimate he has a good chance to recover more votes from the right fringe than he would lose in the centre, nationwide.eristdoof said:
I think a CSU Kanzlerkandidat would be bad for the CDU in a national election.matthiasfromhamburg said:
Not categorically impossible, but unlikely.kle4 said:
And hadn't her hand picked successor stepped down as not up to the job? Perhaps she'll need to run again next year after all.Foxy said:More evidence of a rally to the leader effect:
https://twitter.com/COdendahl/status/1243654522024742913?s=19
The CV crisis does have reshuffeled the cards, though. Merz has been taken out literally by the virus, Laschet figuratively so. Spahn has been able to raise his profile considerably, Röttgen has been forgotten.
The new frontrunner for the Union candidature is the CSU's Markus Söder, Spahn for the CDU chair.1 -
Just back from walking the dog, ISTM that there are a lot fewer people out and about today. The weather isn’t quite as nice, although fairly decent this morning. I wonder whether the top trio having come down with the virus has made it real for more people?0
-
I can believe the collapsing in the street in a few extreme case, shocking though it is.RobD said:
I thought there were similar stories from Italy?DAlexander said:
Yes and remember the videos of people collapsing in the street?SouthamObserver said:
A lot of rhe outdoor videos supposedly from Wuhan showed trees full of leaves when it was actually the middle of winter there.DAlexander said:
I read that those videos were of apartments being repossessed and secured and nothing to do with the virus.FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.
That hasn't happened anywhere else with the virus, so was probably completely unrelated.
When the health system cant keep up (Wuhan and N. Italy) and an elderly person has no one to buy food for him/her. At home their breathing is manageable as they are not exerting themselves, but underestaimate how much effort walking to the shops is when their lung effecacy is a quarter of what it should be.0 -
There areRobD said:
I thought there were similar stories from Italy?DAlexander said:
Yes and remember the videos of people collapsing in the street?SouthamObserver said:
A lot of rhe outdoor videos supposedly from Wuhan showed trees full of leaves when it was actually the middle of winter there.DAlexander said:
I read that those videos were of apartments being repossessed and secured and nothing to do with the virus.FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.
That hasn't happened anywhere else with the virus, so was probably completely unrelated.0 -
He told me he was meme.....eadric said:
Has my Albanian cab driver become a meme?!Malmesbury said:
The Python&Radiohead hating Albanian taxi driver (loved pineapple pizza) I met the other day was an expert on Scottish poll sub-samples, as it happens.....felix said:
I love an occasional and selective sub-sampleRobD said:
Tories 3% behind the SNP in Scotland.Theuniondivvie said:
*biggest Tory poll lead in Wangland.HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
Lol. You guys are BONKERS.
FWIW - you won’t believe me - he really exists, and I faithfully reported everything he said.0 -
I have an acquaintance who fled the UK back to his native Sweden early on in this, because he didn't think the UK were taking enough action and had more confidence in Swedish healthcare system. Awks.eadric said:Is this true?
“As was also predictable from early on, once an outbreak became established in a country, the only alternative to a near-universal domestic epidemic was a shut-down of the economy and society in affected regions – which would come with a terrible economic toll.”
SWEDEN begs to differ
https://twitter.com/godelnik/status/1243872578537734145?s=21
How Sweden fares will be a fascinating subplot.0 -
Sorry if this is upsetting. But....eristdoof said:
I can believe the collapsing in the street in a few extreme case, shocking though it is.RobD said:
I thought there were similar stories from Italy?DAlexander said:
Yes and remember the videos of people collapsing in the street?SouthamObserver said:
A lot of rhe outdoor videos supposedly from Wuhan showed trees full of leaves when it was actually the middle of winter there.DAlexander said:
I read that those videos were of apartments being repossessed and secured and nothing to do with the virus.FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.
That hasn't happened anywhere else with the virus, so was probably completely unrelated.
When the health system cant keep up (Wuhan and N. Italy) and an elderly person has no one to buy food for him/her. At home their breathing is manageable as they are not exerting themselves, but underestaimate how much effort walking to the shops is when their lung effecacy is a quarter of what it should be.
Many soldiers died early after the first world war. This was as a result of surviving gas attacks. This left them with reduced lung function and a persistent cough. This in turn put strain on the cardio-vascular system. The cause of death was generally a heart attack.0 -
Should be very interesting for sure, if not herself all her clique and nearest and dearest were. I hope some byre cleaning is done.Theuniondivvie said:
I'm sure all the 'Nicola Knew' stuff is being kept in reserve for when everyone has stopped coughing.DavidL said:
I was slightly surprised that there was no uplift in the SNP vote although national polls like this are quite crude. Nicola has done very well through this so far and has possibly had a stroke of luck in the Salmond trial which got far, far less coverage than it would in normal times.Theuniondivvie said:
*biggest Tory poll lead in Wangland.HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=210 -
Look at it this way, soon the cabinet will be immune.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Is setting up multiple accounts with identical personas BONKERS, or a failure of imagination? Asking for an imaginary friend.eadric said:
Has my Albanian cab driver become a meme?!Malmesbury said:
The Python&Radiohead hating Albanian taxi driver (loved pineapple pizza) I met the other day was an expert on Scottish poll sub-samples, as it happens.....felix said:
I love an occasional and selective sub-sampleRobD said:
Tories 3% behind the SNP in Scotland.Theuniondivvie said:
*biggest Tory poll lead in Wangland.HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
Lol. You guys are BONKERS.
FWIW - you won’t believe me - he really exists, and I faithfully reported everything he said.2 -
Lovely day here for a changeIanB2 said:Just back from walking the dog, ISTM that there are a lot fewer people out and about today. The weather isn’t quite as nice, although fairly decent this morning. I wonder whether the top trio having come down with the virus has made it real for more people?
0 -
In my opinion, obesity is misunderstood by the medical profession. Simply carrying around a bunch of fat cells is not, in and of itself, a medical condition - it is a symptom. It is the body's wonderful response to a problem with the problem being (in my opinion) a blood sugar spike, and/or us consuming bad things that the body can't deal with so decides to store as fat.ABZ said:That link on the previous thread (thanks @DAlexander!) from the Netherlands stating that 80% of patients in the ICU are obese is very interesting. It does suggest that this (plus associated complications) are, perhaps unsurprisingly, major factors. That doesn't bode well for this country and, especially, for the USA... @Foxy do you know if something similar has been seen, anecdotally, here?
That being the case, levels of sugar and carb consumption could be heavily implicated in the fortunes of sufferers. This would tally with diabetics (especially, I assume, type 1 sufferers) being vulnerable.0 -
This...eristdoof said:
I can believe the collapsing in the street in a few extreme case, shocking though it is.RobD said:
I thought there were similar stories from Italy?DAlexander said:
Yes and remember the videos of people collapsing in the street?SouthamObserver said:
A lot of rhe outdoor videos supposedly from Wuhan showed trees full of leaves when it was actually the middle of winter there.DAlexander said:
I read that those videos were of apartments being repossessed and secured and nothing to do with the virus.FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.
That hasn't happened anywhere else with the virus, so was probably completely unrelated.
When the health system cant keep up (Wuhan and N. Italy) and an elderly person has no one to buy food for him/her. At home their breathing is manageable as they are not exerting themselves, but underestaimate how much effort walking to the shops is when their lung effecacy is a quarter of what it should be.
A couple of years ago, I contracted something that wasn't a millions miles off the kind of symptoms of CV i.e massive fever and developed pneumonia. Before I was hospitalized, I tried to fight through for a couple of days and even going up the stairs took everything out of me...and I am not old and very fit otherwise.
Under the current situation, I would probably would have been an edge case for hospital admission as I wasn't "drowning", just much reduced capacity. Under those circumstances and had been forced to go to the shop, I am pretty sure I wouldn't have made it all the way.0 -
Brown nosers dropping like fliesTheScreamingEagles said:-2 -
Another point on CV collapses...not only serious pneumonia being a problem, but there are plenty of evidence that it attacks other organs, especially the heart, so people could also be having heart failure.
And anybody with an underlying condition, I am sure this overwhelms them and again could easily lead to this.0 -
Was your meme driving a SAAB?Malmesbury said:
He told me he was meme.....eadric said:
Has my Albanian cab driver become a meme?!Malmesbury said:
The Python&Radiohead hating Albanian taxi driver (loved pineapple pizza) I met the other day was an expert on Scottish poll sub-samples, as it happens.....felix said:
I love an occasional and selective sub-sampleRobD said:
Tories 3% behind the SNP in Scotland.Theuniondivvie said:
*biggest Tory poll lead in Wangland.HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
Lol. You guys are BONKERS.
FWIW - you won’t believe me - he really exists, and I faithfully reported everything he said.0 -
Aren’t Swedes known as being a bit stand-offish anyway? Sadly, we have far too great a number who think that a good night out or good work environment is to squeeze as many people as possible into a small space.eadric said:Is this true?
“As was also predictable from early on, once an outbreak became established in a country, the only alternative to a near-universal domestic epidemic was a shut-down of the economy and society in affected regions – which would come with a terrible economic toll.”
SWEDEN begs to differ
https://twitter.com/godelnik/status/1243872578537734145?s=21
How Sweden fares will be a fascinating subplot.0 -
What an appalling thing to say.malcolmg said:
Brown nosers dropping like fliesTheScreamingEagles said:2 -
The Spanish must be absolutely PO’d that it is called the Spanish Flu when all they did was report on it first - being neutral in WW1 their papers were under fewer reporting restrictions than in the combatant countries, and the fact the King became ill meant it appeared more prevalent there. But it didn’t start there.ydoethur said:
He had Spanish flu as a baby and survived it?HYUFD said:0 -
Looks like independence is not going to happen no matter how much you 'will' it too Malcmalcolmg said:
Lovely day here for a changeIanB2 said:Just back from walking the dog, ISTM that there are a lot fewer people out and about today. The weather isn’t quite as nice, although fairly decent this morning. I wonder whether the top trio having come down with the virus has made it real for more people?
Todays poll is evidence of the appreciation of the union by the Scots who recognise the strength of the union at times of national emergency
I have always maintained the Scots would not vote for independence, but covid 19 has ensured it1 -
It is certainly where it is a massive advantage to be a nation who aren't known for outward displays of affection...doing La Bise with everybody in a room like the French or the huggy nature of the Italians.ukpaul said:
Aren’t Swedes known as being a bit stand-offish anyway? Sadly, we have far too great a number who think that a good night out or good work environment is to squeeze as many people as possible into a small space.eadric said:Is this true?
“As was also predictable from early on, once an outbreak became established in a country, the only alternative to a near-universal domestic epidemic was a shut-down of the economy and society in affected regions – which would come with a terrible economic toll.”
SWEDEN begs to differ
https://twitter.com/godelnik/status/1243872578537734145?s=21
How Sweden fares will be a fascinating subplot.
Also, not doing that religious stuff either. Catholics obviously in Spain and Italy, and here we are seeing a disproportionate number of people from the Asian and Jewish communities being struck down.0 -
We have a lot to thank the Victorians for.FrancisUrquhart said:
It is certainly where it is a massive advantage to be a nation who aren't known for outward displays of affection...doing La Bise with everybody in a room like the French or the huggy nature of the Italians.ukpaul said:
Aren’t Swedes known as being a bit stand-offish anyway? Sadly, we have far too great a number who think that a good night out or good work environment is to squeeze as many people as possible into a small space.eadric said:Is this true?
“As was also predictable from early on, once an outbreak became established in a country, the only alternative to a near-universal domestic epidemic was a shut-down of the economy and society in affected regions – which would come with a terrible economic toll.”
SWEDEN begs to differ
https://twitter.com/godelnik/status/1243872578537734145?s=21
How Sweden fares will be a fascinating subplot.
Also, not doing that religious stuff either. Catholics obviously in Spain and Italy, and here we are seeing a disproportionate number of people from the Asian and Jewish community.
1 -
The Dutch are really missing us playing the baddie aren't they?SouthamObserver said:
https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-try-to-calm-storm-over-repugnant-finance-ministers-comments/kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21 people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.5 -
Latest data
0 -
Hey, he's MY imaginary friend, not yours.Theuniondivvie said:
Is setting up multiple accounts with identical personas BONKERS, or a failure of imagination? Asking for an imaginary friend.eadric said:
Has my Albanian cab driver become a meme?!Malmesbury said:
The Python&Radiohead hating Albanian taxi driver (loved pineapple pizza) I met the other day was an expert on Scottish poll sub-samples, as it happens.....felix said:
I love an occasional and selective sub-sampleRobD said:
Tories 3% behind the SNP in Scotland.Theuniondivvie said:
*biggest Tory poll lead in Wangland.HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
Lol. You guys are BONKERS.
FWIW - you won’t believe me - he really exists, and I faithfully reported everything he said.0 -
I have to say I am still very awkward about all continental level of affection when I visit European friends. Just how many kisses do I do with you, and which side do I start, and no kisses with this group, but hugs...RobD said:
We have a lot to thank the Victorians for.FrancisUrquhart said:
It is certainly where it is a massive advantage to be a nation who aren't known for outward displays of affection...doing La Bise with everybody in a room like the French or the huggy nature of the Italians.ukpaul said:
Aren’t Swedes known as being a bit stand-offish anyway? Sadly, we have far too great a number who think that a good night out or good work environment is to squeeze as many people as possible into a small space.eadric said:Is this true?
“As was also predictable from early on, once an outbreak became established in a country, the only alternative to a near-universal domestic epidemic was a shut-down of the economy and society in affected regions – which would come with a terrible economic toll.”
SWEDEN begs to differ
https://twitter.com/godelnik/status/1243872578537734145?s=21
How Sweden fares will be a fascinating subplot.
Also, not doing that religious stuff either. Catholics obviously in Spain and Italy, and here we are seeing a disproportionate number of people from the Asian and Jewish community.0 -
Weren't you recently humpfing about someone passing comment on a country in which they didn't live? Was it because you thought they didn't have right to stick their oar in or that they didn't have a clue, being so far away 'n' everything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looks like independence is not going to happen no matter how much you 'will' it too Malcmalcolmg said:
Lovely day here for a changeIanB2 said:Just back from walking the dog, ISTM that there are a lot fewer people out and about today. The weather isn’t quite as nice, although fairly decent this morning. I wonder whether the top trio having come down with the virus has made it real for more people?
Todays poll is evidence of the appreciation of the union by the Scots who recognise the strength of the union at times of national emergency
I have always maintained the Scots would not vote for independence, but covid 19 has ensured it0 -
No doubt like many others, I am re-reading Defoe, and was struck by the fact that the watchmen were there not only to prevent escapes, but also to buy food and other necessary items for those in the house. Notwithstanding that there was a flaw in the procedure because they couldn't do both at once, it does seem that the planners in 17th-century London were aware that people staying at home needed to eat, unlike their modern counterparts.IshmaelZ said:
No idea. I do note though from Defoe Journal of the Plague Year that it was the absolutely standard way of dealing with cases, and the most horrific aspect of the whole thing, to seal up houses with known cases and put a watchman on the door to prevent escapes.FF43 said:
I seriously doubt there was significant welding of people into their apartment blocks and leaving them to die, and certainly not as policy.Sandpit said:
As they start un-welding all the apartment blocks they imprisoned people in two months ago, they will probably find more than a few bodies inside. Not that anyone will ever know about them.IshmaelZ said:
Huge mystery.tlg86 said:I must have not paid attention at the time, but can someone explain how China prevented this virus from spreading through the rest of the country at the same time it has spread through the rest of the world?
Also funeral urn counts suggest 60,000 dead in Wuhan, not 3,000 as claimed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts-surface-chinese-virus-death-toll-thousands-urns-spotted/
Some things just cannot be done in a democracy, what happened in Wuhan being close to the top of the list.2 -
Typhoid Nadine.malcolmg said:
Brown nosers dropping like fliesTheScreamingEagles said:1 -
I think they are missing the point completely: telling countries that have had a decade of extreme austerity and which are now coping with a human catastrophe that essentially it is all their fault and they are on their own is quite something. In the case of Spain and Portugal, at least, it also ignores just how much has been done to bring their economies back to an even keel.DavidL said:
The Dutch are really missing us playing the baddie aren't they>SouthamObserver said:
https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-try-to-calm-storm-over-repugnant-finance-ministers-comments/kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21 people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.
2 -
Doesn't really work since she had symptoms, and followed the advice rather than going back to work.Theuniondivvie said:
Typhoid Nadine.malcolmg said:
Brown nosers dropping like fliesTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Unless and until an EU demos develops among the general population (as opposed to a few political elites), times of crisis will always generate massive friction between member states. Monetary union cannot survive without fiscal union in the long term.SouthamObserver said:
I think they are missing the point completely: telling countries that have had a decade of extreme austerity and which are now coping with a human catastrophe that essentially it is all their fault and they are on their own is quite something. In the case of Spain and Portugal, at least, it also ignores just how much has been done to bring their economies back to an even keel.DavidL said:
The Dutch are really missing us playing the baddie aren't they>SouthamObserver said:
https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-try-to-calm-storm-over-repugnant-finance-ministers-comments/kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:felix said:SouthamObserver said:felix said:nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21HYUFD said:williamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=212 -
I don't disagree, its just in times past they would have had us say it and quietly agreed behind the scenes whilst we took all the flak. What their response shows is that EU solidarity is just words on a page.SouthamObserver said:
I think they are missing the point completely: telling countries that have had a decade of extreme austerity and which are now coping with a human catastrophe that essentially it is all their fault and they are on their own is quite something. In the case of Spain and Portugal, at least, it also ignores just how much has been done to bring their economies back to an even keel.DavidL said:
The Dutch are really missing us playing the baddie aren't they>SouthamObserver said:
https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-try-to-calm-storm-over-repugnant-finance-ministers-comments/kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21 people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.1 -
Are you sure? I thought she had the test, carried on working, and only isolated after the result.RobD said:
Doesn't really work since she had symptoms, and followed the advice rather than going back to work.Theuniondivvie said:
Typhoid Nadine.malcolmg said:
Brown nosers dropping like fliesTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I know how he feels. Woe betide those who question authority on covid-19.
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1243881105540907008?s=210 -
I don't think you can project that from the graphs. For most countries, the slope is reducing. i.e. the exponential growth is slowing down. Some notable exceptions.DavidL said:
So the likelihood is that pretty much every country down to tiny Ireland is going to end this with more dead than China? Right...Barnesian said:Latest data
0 -
Guidance please from resident legal eagles.
Would knocking on my neighbour's door to ask him to stop playing deafening music morning, noon and night fall within the law?1 -
Since God wouldn't conjure up a pandemic that disproportionately felled the devout, isn’t this conclusive proof that God doesn’t exist?FrancisUrquhart said:
It is certainly where it is a massive advantage to be a nation who aren't known for outward displays of affection...doing La Bise with everybody in a room like the French or the huggy nature of the Italians.ukpaul said:
Aren’t Swedes known as being a bit stand-offish anyway? Sadly, we have far too great a number who think that a good night out or good work environment is to squeeze as many people as possible into a small space.eadric said:Is this true?
“As was also predictable from early on, once an outbreak became established in a country, the only alternative to a near-universal domestic epidemic was a shut-down of the economy and society in affected regions – which would come with a terrible economic toll.”
SWEDEN begs to differ
https://twitter.com/godelnik/status/1243872578537734145?s=21
How Sweden fares will be a fascinating subplot.
Also, not doing that religious stuff either. Catholics obviously in Spain and Italy, and here we are seeing a disproportionate number of people from the Asian and Jewish communities being struck down.0 -
My family have an absolute right to comment on Scots independence and will continue to do so. My children and grandchildren are half Scots and are entitled to wear their kiltsTheuniondivvie said:
Weren't you recently humpfing about someone passing comment on a country in which they didn't live? Was it because you thought they didn't have right to stick their oar in or that they didn't have a clue, being so far away 'n' everything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looks like independence is not going to happen no matter how much you 'will' it too Malcmalcolmg said:
Lovely day here for a changeIanB2 said:Just back from walking the dog, ISTM that there are a lot fewer people out and about today. The weather isn’t quite as nice, although fairly decent this morning. I wonder whether the top trio having come down with the virus has made it real for more people?
Todays poll is evidence of the appreciation of the union by the Scots who recognise the strength of the union at times of national emergency
I have always maintained the Scots would not vote for independence, but covid 19 has ensured it
Of course you may have some difficulty in understanding independence is over, but over it is
And by the way, I was schooled in Berwick on Tweed and have lived with the desire of some for independence since those days in the 1950's, and of course lived in Edinburgh and was married in Lossiemouth0 -
From what I've read symptoms developed on the Friday, and she isolated from Saturday.IanB2 said:
Are you sure? I thought she had the test, carried on working, and only isolated after the result.RobD said:
Doesn't really work since she had symptoms, and followed the advice rather than going back to work.Theuniondivvie said:
Typhoid Nadine.malcolmg said:
Brown nosers dropping like fliesTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
To put a handle on this, the egg-heads have said they think between 50-66% of those who will die would have died this year anyway. That isn't to take anyway from the tragedy of it all, but it gives some perspective of with / of.isam said:I know how he feels. Woe betide those who question authority on covid-19.
twitter.com/afneil/status/1243881105540907008?s=210 -
Yep, that is the danger. There was polling in Spain earlier this week showing a significant fall in confidence in the EU as an institution. I am not surprised.DavidL said:
I don't disagree, its just in times past they would have had us say it and quietly agreed behind the scenes whilst we took all the flak. What their response shows is that EU solidarity is just words on a page.SouthamObserver said:
I think they are missing the point completely: telling countries that have had a decade of extreme austerity and which are now coping with a human catastrophe that essentially it is all their fault and they are on their own is quite something. In the case of Spain and Portugal, at least, it also ignores just how much has been done to bring their economies back to an even keel.DavidL said:
The Dutch are really missing us playing the baddie aren't they>SouthamObserver said:
https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-try-to-calm-storm-over-repugnant-finance-ministers-comments/kle4 said:
What did the Dutch minister say?SouthamObserver said:
The Dutch minister's comments were an absolute disgrace and reminded me that I voted Remain not because I had any affection for the EU but because I thought leaving was a worse idea than staying. There have been failings, as there have in many countries, including this one; and it is politcally very charged in Spain right now, as it has been for a long while. That's why I think a GONU woud be very hard. The real shame is that C's ruled out a coalition with PSOE after April's election. That would have had a solid majority and would have meant no Podemos in power. However, the devolved healthcare systems, the social interaction, the number of people living in flats, etc would still have been there. The one real charge you can lay at the government's feet, I think, is the failure to act decisively sooner. Had it done so, it woud still have been horrific, but undoubtedly less horrific than it is now.felix said:
Of course I agree wrt the UK but in Spain the optics atm are not good. There have been quite big failings re test kits, the flight to second homes and the awful care home scandals. In addition the current coalition lacks an overall majority. The health service is buckling in the centre and parts of the north. Catalonia continues being awkward. The EU and European allies have left Italy and Spain out to dry sadly. The Dutch minister's comments at the EU summit have gone down very badly.SouthamObserver said:
The polling in Spain has been pretty non-existent recently, but one I saw this week basically had the result at where it was for the last election. In the UK, I think it is very good news that a large majority currently have confidence in the government. If we were divided the kind of collective action needed to combat the emergency would be far harder to undertake. There is plenty of time for normal politics to resume later.felix said:
It's very encouraging at a time of crisis that the government has the confidence of the people. Long may it last in the UK - we are not quite so fortunate here in Spain but at least where I live people are strongly backing the lockdown.nichomar said:HYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21
What’s encouraging about it? Who gives a shit that it is the biggest lead since god knows when I’m not sure why a) they publish themHYUFD said:
Encouraging and the biggest Tory poll lead since Thatcher post Falklands in 1982 apparently but next week Corbyn will be gone and Starmer will likely be Labour leader and the Tories poll lead may narrowwilliamglenn said:Look away now, HYUFD.
https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/1243823761650040832?s=21 people read them
C) anybody thinks it’s relevant
We can hopeful resume Or not petty party politics in 12 months time
I still hope we'll pull through and life here in the SE is very calm and compliant. However, this is a very conservative rural zone very unlike the rest of the country. Turbulent times.
1 -
Piqued Seant trying to get a dig in on another post was always one of my favourites.eadric said:
‘n’Theuniondivvie said:
Weren't you recently humpfing about someone passing comment on a country in which they didn't live? Was it because you thought they didn't have right to stick their oar in or that they didn't have a clue, being so far away 'n' everything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looks like independence is not going to happen no matter how much you 'will' it too Malcmalcolmg said:
Lovely day here for a changeIanB2 said:Just back from walking the dog, ISTM that there are a lot fewer people out and about today. The weather isn’t quite as nice, although fairly decent this morning. I wonder whether the top trio having come down with the virus has made it real for more people?
Todays poll is evidence of the appreciation of the union by the Scots who recognise the strength of the union at times of national emergency
I have always maintained the Scots would not vote for independence, but covid 19 has ensured it
Lol
Failure of imagination it is.1 -
Still so far short of your own calculation for the UK, then.eadric said:0 -
A link to the study would be good.rottenborough said:
0 -
https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Israeli-nobel-laureate-Coronavirus-spread-is-slowing-621145Barnesian said:
I don't think you can project that from the graphs. For most countries, the slope is reducing. i.e. the exponential growth is slowing down. Some notable exceptions.DavidL said:
So the likelihood is that pretty much every country down to tiny Ireland is going to end this with more dead than China? Right...Barnesian said:Latest data
0 -
This is really interesting and indicates that the social landscape is a very important factor in how damaging the virus ends up being. How do you stop Italians and the Spanish from being what they are?
https://twitter.com/TrevorSutcliffe/status/12436126247905157120 -
-
Dr Foxy,
If you're still around, thanks for the Chen at al paper. An interesting read.0 -
But if you assume anything like a bell shaped curve then their total deaths will exceed China's declared deaths. Whilst the period of exponential or explosive growth seems to end quite quickly once controls are imposed (allowing for lags of course) there is then a quite extensive period of a few weeks before the numbers fall off materially.Barnesian said:
I don't think you can project that from the graphs. For most countries, the slope is reducing. i.e. the exponential growth is slowing down. Some notable exceptions.DavidL said:
So the likelihood is that pretty much every country down to tiny Ireland is going to end this with more dead than China? Right...Barnesian said:Latest data
Deaths are also a seriously lagging indicator since many seem to succumb well after the median of 10 days after getting symptoms. And China is reporting 3 deaths today. I frankly don't believe it.0 -
Let's hope it pans out this way.eadric said:
https://twitter.com/thejeremyvine/status/1243243397281972225?s=21Benpointer said:0
This discussion has been closed.