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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Salmond acquitted on all charges

SystemSystem Posts: 11,008
edited March 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Salmond acquitted on all charges

There have been huge divisions in the SNP over Alex Salmond. They are now likely to play out in public. The ramifications could be huge.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226
    First!
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226
    Huge.
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    This verdict is good for popcorn sales.

    I may back Salmonk for the next leader of the SNP if the price is attractive.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    Salmon is “not proven” to be an attempted rapist.
    He has been acquitted, but surely his political career is over.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Salmon is “not proven” to be an attempted rapist.
    He has been acquitted, but surely his political career is over.

    Overer than it was anyway?
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,291
    Haven't really been following the case. Why would the ramifications be huge?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    FPT
    malcolmg Posts: 26,609
    4:15PM

    tlg86 said:

    » show previous quotes
    Well, if what your alleging is the case, there will be further legal action to come.

    It was stated in the evidence from the court that 6 of them were in a Whatsapp group discussing the allegations.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,901
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    Salmon is “not proven” to be an attempted rapist.
    He has been acquitted, but surely his political career is over.

    Do not bet on it
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    malcolmg Posts: 26,609
    4:15PM

    tlg86 said:

    » show previous quotes
    Well, if what your alleging is the case, there will be further legal action to come.

    It was stated in the evidence from the court that 6 of them were in a Whatsapp group discussing the allegations.

    What does that prove?
  • Options
    DAlexanderDAlexander Posts: 815
    Not his biggest fan, but he's been acquitted, so these accusations should have no bearing on his future political career.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,383
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    Can't recall; why did he resign as First Minister? Because he got elected to Westminster, wan't it?

    I rather like Ms Sturgeon's no-nonsense approach!
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    #AlexSalmond said evidence which he could not share in court would "see the light of day"
  • Options
    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,767

    Salmon is “not proven” to be an attempted rapist.
    He has been acquitted, but surely his political career is over.

    Allegedly that was the point of amassing the statements from complainants. I suspect it was never meant to come to trial, just to be used in any AS (or ally) candidature vetting.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,383
    Not touching this one at all, though I'll be interested to see how it plays out.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    tlg86 said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    malcolmg Posts: 26,609
    4:15PM

    tlg86 said:

    » show previous quotes
    Well, if what your alleging is the case, there will be further legal action to come.

    It was stated in the evidence from the court that 6 of them were in a Whatsapp group discussing the allegations.

    What does that prove?
    Merely that the accusers were an organised group many years after the allegations took place and reported it to SNP first rather than police.
    I did not say it proved anything merely that they were online comparing stories which I imagine is unusual, though I have no legal qualifications..
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,135
    Gordon Jackson is a phenomenal criminal lawyer but this must be close to his greatest triumph. His jury speech seems to have swung it. Something just didn't smell right he said. Not going to waste my breath saying he is a nice man. But he is facing serious criminal charges in the High Court.

    One story about him. Some years ago he was acting as the AD (Prosecutor). He stands up to make his speech to the Jury.

    "They, (he says pointing to the accused) think that you're daft. I don't."

    Sits down.

    Guilty.

    I was supposed to be doing a proof (civil trial) against him next month. Its gone off as a result of the virus.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    Haven't really been following the case. Why would the ramifications be huge?

    The allegations were mainly by senior SNP people or ones that had left and joined civil service allegedly, going by reporting of trial.
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    DavidL said:

    Gordon Jackson is a phenomenal criminal lawyer but this must be close to his greatest triumph. His jury speech seems to have swung it. Something just didn't smell right he said. Not going to waste my breath saying he is a nice man. But he is facing serious criminal charges in the High Court.

    One story about him. Some years ago he was acting as the AD (Prosecutor). He stands up to make his speech to the Jury.

    "They, (he says pointing to the accused) think that you're daft. I don't."

    Sits down.

    Guilty.

    I was supposed to be doing a proof (civil trial) against him next month. Its gone off as a result of the virus.

    'Something just didn't smell right he said'

    Thank God he resisted the temptation to say 'fishy'...
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    isam said:
    Indeed; positive signs.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,383
    DavidL said:

    Gordon Jackson is a phenomenal criminal lawyer.....

    One of the real Professionals, one might say...
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    malcolmg said:

    Salmon is “not proven” to be an attempted rapist.
    He has been acquitted, but surely his political career is over.

    Do not bet on it
    Interesting to see that both the MSPs for Aberdeen Donside and Banffshire are planning to stand down next year. Don't see any replacements selected yet.
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    If China said the day ended in Y I'd check out the window.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,383
    I think it's an exaggeration to say they're "through it".
    They have it under fairly tight control, but the big question is when they might be able to relax that.
    But yes, they are doing way better than us.

    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2020/03/119_286620.html
    ...Seoul, Incheon and Gyeonggi Province, which surrounds Seoul and Incheon, saw their new daily infections rise by 20 to 721 on Sunday.

    With unknown virus patients without immediate symptoms apparently causing significant numbers of infections, the government has called for people to avoid nonessential gatherings in crowded places.

    South Korea began implementing stricter rules on social distancing on Sunday to slow the coronavirus pandemic.

    Citizens are strongly urged to stay at home, except for essential needs or jobs, with the government also restricting religious gatherings, indoor sports activities and attendance at entertainment facilities, such as night clubs and karaoke rooms.

    Amid a steady rise in imported virus cases, South Korea has enforced a two-week quarantine period for all long-term arrivals from Europe, regardless of symptoms....
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,114
    O/T but Sky report 54 new deaths since yesterday’s report.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,827

    isam said:
    Indeed; positive signs.
    Todays numbers not looking good if that number for today excludes England
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited March 2020
    The smarter of the brothers shares some of his wisdom:


    https://twitter.com/Piers_Corbyn/status/1239367865784033280
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    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/coronavirus-new-cases-imported-travel-covid-19-12567298

    Interesting to see how many of Singapore's cases are coming from the UK - 34 new British-originated cases found there today. (FWIW Singaporeans in the UK are heavily concentrated in London.)
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,827
    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    Is that on top of the 54 or only 54 including this 46?
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,250
    edited March 2020
    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    Cabinet rebellion threatened unless Italian-style measures agreed

    If the Telegraph is right about that then the government's actions are not driven by evidence or experts but by assorted girly swots panicking at news headlines (oh, and Boris is losing control after less than six months).

    ETA that is the political story, not Salmond.
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    ABZABZ Posts: 441

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    Is that on top of the 54 or only 54 including this 46?
    Including.
  • Options

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    Cabinet rebellion threatened unless Italian-style measures agreed

    If the Telegraph is right about that then the government's actions are not driven by evidence or experts but by assorted girly swots panicking at news headlines (oh, and Boris is losing control after less than six months).

    ETA that is the political story, not Salmond.
    Source
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    BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    281 (Sunday's total) + 54 = 335

    So 54 = 46 (Eng.) + 8 (other parts of UK)

    would be my interpretation of that.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,250
    Andrew said:

    The smarter of the brothers shares some of his wisdom:


    https://twitter.com/Piers_Corbyn/status/1239367865784033280

    He used to be a sage when opposing climate change theories was what counted.
  • Options
    Regarding food, a few thoughts:

    1. Even in lockdown people will be allowed to shop. Indeed in Spain its one of the only reasons to be allowed out. We will see a lot of people shopping a lot in lockdown
    2. There is not as yet shortage of products in the entire supply chain - we haven't run out of bog rolls. What we have is a supply chain that can move a finite amount of product every night - a relatively inflexible number of pallet footprints available per store per day. Stock may well be in a warehouse somewhere unable to be dropped to stores in sufficient quantities.
    3. Morrisons have a nightly high-level logistics meeting discussing what stock goes to where leaving who short. The other multiple grocers will be doing a similar exercise. I can go onto one of their stock systems now and check how much of the lines we produce they have at store and distribution centre level. They can both have stock and be out of stock in some stores simultaneously if the stock isn't uniformly distributed or demand isn't even across all stores.
    4. These retailers were set up to operate on an acceptable level of off-sales. As an example Sainsbury's are content with 89% availability from shelf for fresh produce - 11% of all lines can be off-sale and that is ok. Store systems only reorder when stock is really low often with a delivery the following night merched the day after that arrangement. A sudden surge in sales can leave the store out of stock completely for half the week.
    5. Fresh produce will undoubtedly become very tight from a stock perspective. You can't keep large buffer stocks in depots on short life stuff, and what buffer they had will already have been sold. Which explains the wholescale shortages in big supermarkets and why my local farm shop is the busiest I have ever seen it.

    There will be *some* things to buy. Just won't be what people want. Ironically the closure of restaurants and especially fast food will be a run on stuff like frozen pizza and ready meals. I used to work for one of the major ready meal manufacturers, their big problem is available labour, and thats at the best of times...
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,827

    isam said:
    Indeed; positive signs.
    Those numbers look like we are 15 days behind to me but todays numbers are surprisingly good despite it being the equal highest no of deaths in 24hrs
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,286
    England 46
    Scotland 4
    Wales 4

    Total = 54
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966

    Haven't really been following the case. Why would the ramifications be huge?

    Think of it as a Pavlovian kinda thing.


    Salmond accused of assault and attempted rape.

    The ramifications could be huge.


    Salmond found guilty of all charges.

    The ramifications could be huge.


    Salmond found guilty of some of the charges.

    The ramifications could be huge.


    Salmond acquitted on all charges.

    The ramifications could be huge.

  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    281 (Sunday's total) + 54 = 335

    So 54 = 46 (Eng.) + 8 (other parts of UK)

    would be my interpretation of that.
    Its key to remember again that is deaths with Covid 19, not necessarily because of Covid 19
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,250
    edited March 2020

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    Cabinet rebellion threatened unless Italian-style measures agreed

    If the Telegraph is right about that then the government's actions are not driven by evidence or experts but by assorted girly swots panicking at news headlines (oh, and Boris is losing control after less than six months).

    ETA that is the political story, not Salmond.
    Source
    Telegraph. Third bullet point on the home page.

    ETA 8.06 am on the "live" page

    PM facing 'full-scale cabinet mutiny' if there is no lockdown
    Boris Johnson is facing a "full scale mutiny" from his cabinet and senior aides if he does not enforce a lockdown of London including restrictions on non-essential travel, according to reports.

    Cabinet ministers and aides want the Prime Minister to bring in French or Italian-style lockdown measures in the next 24 hours. Yesterday he warned "tougher measures" could be introduced if people do not take the Government's coronavirus advice seriously.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-latest-lockdown-panic-buying-news-cases-nhs/
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Is this right, friends of my son applying for universal credit - told no payment til 27th April

    For real?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    edited March 2020
    As she's already had the virus and can't get it again shouldn't Nadine Dorries take over if Boris gets it? ;)
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,114
    Does this verdict change much? People make their own minds up as to guilt or innocence and a verdict won’t change their minds. See OJ Simpson where the reaction to the verdict was split on racial lines. In this case I would imagine that reaction will be similarly polarised according to your own view of the individual.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,383
    GIN1138 said:

    As she's already had the virus and can't get it again shouldn't Nadine Dorries take over if Boris gets it? ;)

    Raab was pictured coughing in Parliament a while back, so it's possible he has too.
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    BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    281 (Sunday's total) + 54 = 335

    So 54 = 46 (Eng.) + 8 (other parts of UK)

    would be my interpretation of that.
    Its key to remember again that is deaths with Covid 19, not necessarily because of Covid 19
    Aye, but that's a systemic issue so not relevent here unless we start counting things differently.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    Is that on top of the 54 or only 54 including this 46?
    Including John
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,541

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    281 (Sunday's total) + 54 = 335

    So 54 = 46 (Eng.) + 8 (other parts of UK)

    would be my interpretation of that.
    Its key to remember again that is deaths with Covid 19, not necessarily because of Covid 19
    I would be cautious. Until we get testing up to speed and enough reagents to test more patients, we may be significantly under measuring too.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,541
    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    Is that on top of the 54 or only 54 including this 46?
    Including John
    John?
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,135
    Home cooking coming into fashion. Buy Delia.
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    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    Cabinet rebellion threatened unless Italian-style measures agreed

    If the Telegraph is right about that then the government's actions are not driven by evidence or experts but by assorted girly swots panicking at news headlines (oh, and Boris is losing control after less than six months).

    ETA that is the political story, not Salmond.
    Source
    Telegraph. Third bullet point on the home page.

    ETA 8.06 am on the "live" page

    PM facing 'full-scale cabinet mutiny' if there is no lockdown
    Boris Johnson is facing a "full scale mutiny" from his cabinet and senior aides if he does not enforce a lockdown of London including restrictions on non-essential travel, according to reports.

    Cabinet ministers and aides want the Prime Minister to bring in French or Italian-style lockdown measures in the next 24 hours. Yesterday he warned "tougher measures" could be introduced if people do not take the Government's coronavirus advice seriously.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-latest-lockdown-panic-buying-news-cases-nhs/
    Telegraph and other newspaper reports hold no weight as long as Boris is in harmony with Cobra, the three First Ministers and Khan

    As Varadkar said today decisions are not made with reference to twitter or journalists but to the advice of his medical and science advisors

    And that is where I stand
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    Is that on top of the 54 or only 54 including this 46?
    Including John
    John?
    His name, not implying the death of anyone known as John :-)
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    Floater said:

    Is this right, friends of my son applying for universal credit - told no payment til 27th April

    For real?

    Yes and no.

    They can apply for an advance which will be with them shortly.

    The advance will be deducted from the next 12 months worth of payments.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,383

    Andrew said:

    The smarter of the brothers shares some of his wisdom:


    https://twitter.com/Piers_Corbyn/status/1239367865784033280

    He used to be a sage when opposing climate change theories was what counted.
    On the contrary - he's always been a funny onion.
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Jeez, 5k new cases in New York (state) today. That's more than Spain, might even top Italy.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,827
    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    Is that on top of the 54 or only 54 including this 46?
    Including John
    Better day than Italy -14 then

    Fingers crossed.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    Is this right, friends of my son applying for universal credit - told no payment til 27th April

    For real?

    Yes and no.

    They can apply for an advance which will be with them shortly.

    The advance will be deducted from the next 12 months worth of payments.
    Thank you - the guy I am trying to help is a father of 3
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    ABZABZ Posts: 441
    The Lombardy health commissioner is stating that the trend today is looking hopeful - maybe Italy is now genuinely getting over the hill?
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,909
    isam said:

    Indeed. The curve seems – mercifully – to be somewhat slower here.

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    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    281 (Sunday's total) + 54 = 335

    So 54 = 46 (Eng.) + 8 (other parts of UK)

    would be my interpretation of that.
    Its key to remember again that is deaths with Covid 19, not necessarily because of Covid 19
    I would be cautious. Until we get testing up to speed and enough reagents to test more patients, we may be significantly under measuring too.
    I've just got a text message from the NHS Coronavirus Service to confirm I'm on their "risk of severe illness" list and need to kick about at home for 12 weeks (I've not been able to go out since an operation at the start of February so no change there!). Going to be extra careful now though. Wish my older relatives would do the same. they keep scaring me by saying things like "I'm not going out at all, but I will need to pop up to the shop to get some things"!

    Question re testing you may not know the answer to Foxy - are we testing everyone who is ill/dies of/with breathing difficulties?
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    Floater said:

    Is this right, friends of my son applying for universal credit - told no payment til 27th April

    For real?

    So often with this government it reminds of Monty Python's insurance sketch (which crashed straight into "The Bishop" - vicar tries to claim on his insurance and is told "You see, you unfortunately plumped for our 'Neverpay' policy, which, you know, if you never claim is very worthwhile, but you had to claim, and, well, there it is."

    Paid for [National] Insurance and can't make a claim? Thats the IDS Neverpay clause. Only make a payment to the righteous and unfortunately if you have fallen enough to need UC you aren't worthy enough to get any.
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    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,425
    malcolmg said:

    Haven't really been following the case. Why would the ramifications be huge?

    The allegations were mainly by senior SNP people or ones that had left and joined civil service allegedly, going by reporting of trial.
    Kenny Macaskill (former SNP cabinet secretary at Holyrood and now MP) has been tweeting that "heads must roll". Wonder whose heads he's referring to.

    Believe me, this will run and run.

    And it's nowt to do with Yoons versus Nats.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    Is this right, friends of my son applying for universal credit - told no payment til 27th April

    For real?

    Yes and no.

    They can apply for an advance which will be with them shortly.

    The advance will be deducted from the next 12 months worth of payments.
    Do you know how the rent situation stands? - is it a rent holiday or protection from eviction?
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,909
    ABZ said:

    The Lombardy health commissioner is stating that the trend today is looking hopeful - maybe Italy is now genuinely getting over the hill?

    All eyes on today's Italian numbers.

    If they are down it will be the second day in a row, and might support @rcs1000 's claim a fortnight ago that lockdowns a) work and b) have a lag of about a fortnight

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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,541

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    281 (Sunday's total) + 54 = 335

    So 54 = 46 (Eng.) + 8 (other parts of UK)

    would be my interpretation of that.
    Its key to remember again that is deaths with Covid 19, not necessarily because of Covid 19
    I would be cautious. Until we get testing up to speed and enough reagents to test more patients, we may be significantly under measuring too.
    I've just got a text message from the NHS Coronavirus Service to confirm I'm on their "risk of severe illness" list and need to kick about at home for 12 weeks (I've not been able to go out since an operation at the start of February so no change there!). Going to be extra careful now though. Wish my older relatives would do the same. they keep scaring me by saying things like "I'm not going out at all, but I will need to pop up to the shop to get some things"!

    Question re testing you may not know the answer to Foxy - are we testing everyone who is ill/dies of/with breathing difficulties?
    In the Acute hospitals, I would think so, but probably not in the community and care homes etc.
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    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347
    edited March 2020
    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    281 (Sunday's total) + 54 = 335

    So 54 = 46 (Eng.) + 8 (other parts of UK)

    would be my interpretation of that.
    Its key to remember again that is deaths with Covid 19, not necessarily because of Covid 19
    I would be cautious. Until we get testing up to speed and enough reagents to test more patients, we may be significantly under measuring too.
    I will just post this graph again from the ONS

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/highestnumberofexcesswinterdeathssince19992000/2015-11-25

    2014/15 Excess Winter deaths due to flu were 44000, thats between 400-500 extra deaths each day. It didn't even make the news.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    ABZ said:

    The Lombardy health commissioner is stating that the trend today is looking hopeful - maybe Italy is now genuinely getting over the hill?

    Lets hope so
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    COBR running late so press conference delayed. Going to guess tougher measures are going to have to go ahead, at least for London.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Ventured out to do food shopping today, first time leaving flat in 8 days. Streets completely empty, no queue to get into local supermarket. Only 3 other people in there plus all the usual staff. No shortages on anything except mincemeat and eggs funnily enough. All the toilet paper and pasta you could dream of. Staff now have plastic screens in front of them and everyone was wearing a mask (customers and staff). Didn't see any police or get stopped to check my permission slip either. At least the lockdown is being followed in this neighbourhood.

    France's numbers don't seem to be increasing at the same huge rate as Spain or Italy were, so I'm hopeful it won't be hit quite as badly, and the lockdown is likely to be extended and strengthened tonight.
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    BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    edited March 2020
    Am I missing something - 14 day gap would mean comparing the 9th March (in Italy ) with today (in UK?)?

    EDIT - especially if they've compared the 7th with the 21st, which was 2 days ago?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    281 (Sunday's total) + 54 = 335

    So 54 = 46 (Eng.) + 8 (other parts of UK)

    would be my interpretation of that.
    Its key to remember again that is deaths with Covid 19, not necessarily because of Covid 19
    I would be cautious. Until we get testing up to speed and enough reagents to test more patients, we may be significantly under measuring too.
    I will just post this graph again from the ONS

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/highestnumberofexcesswinterdeathssince19992000/2015-11-25

    2014/15 Excess Winter deaths due to flu were 44000, thats between 400-500 extra deaths each day. It didn't even make the news.
    Not just flu in that. That's all winter deaths.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,541

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    281 (Sunday's total) + 54 = 335

    So 54 = 46 (Eng.) + 8 (other parts of UK)

    would be my interpretation of that.
    Its key to remember again that is deaths with Covid 19, not necessarily because of Covid 19
    I would be cautious. Until we get testing up to speed and enough reagents to test more patients, we may be significantly under measuring too.
    I will just post this graph again from the ONS

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/highestnumberofexcesswinterdeathssince19992000/2015-11-25

    2014/15 Excess Winter deaths were 44000, thats between 400-500 extra deaths eaxh day. It didn't even make the news.
    Actually, it was in the news quite a bit! "Winter pressures" and "trolley waits" etc.

    If in the end the mortality is in 5 figures or less, that will be because of the measures that we take, not that there was no threat in the first place.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited March 2020
    MaxPB said:

    isam said:
    I do wonder whether the "everything the UK does is shit" crowd will stop posting these comparisons now that the UK is following a lower mortality path...
    I'm going to bet no.

    These comparisons are quite frankly crap anyway, since it the effect is different in each country.
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    DeafblokeDeafbloke Posts: 69
    Can anyone explain what is happening in Iran? If the Imperial model is correct, surely deaths should be spiralling out of control to 500k or more?
    1. There is no lockdown (but some closures)
    2. Health service is limited with equipment shortages etc.
    3. Outbreak took off before Italy
    4. Ok, official numbers are suspect, but they would need to be wrong for deaths by orders of magnitude. Evidence for this would be appearing.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161
    edited March 2020
    I hear that all the non-food shops are already shut in my local patch.
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    BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    Deafbloke said:

    Can anyone explain what is happening in Iran? If the Imperial model is correct, surely deaths should be spiralling out of control to 500k or more?
    1. There is no lockdown (but some closures)
    2. Health service is limited with equipment shortages etc.
    3. Outbreak took off before Italy
    4. Ok, official numbers are suspect, but they would need to be wrong for deaths by orders of magnitude. Evidence for this would be appearing.

    There was a very good article, recently, using other indicators/statistics that their reported cases was out by at least an order of magnitude.
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    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Is this right, friends of my son applying for universal credit - told no payment til 27th April

    For real?

    Yes and no.

    They can apply for an advance which will be with them shortly.

    The advance will be deducted from the next 12 months worth of payments.
    Do you know how the rent situation stands? - is it a rent holiday or protection from eviction?
    I think it is a bit of both.

    I’m assuming it is a private landlord?
  • Options

    COBR running late so press conference delayed. Going to guess tougher measures are going to have to go ahead, at least for London.

    Not quite.

    Cobra to meet at 5.00pm and Boris to address the nation around 7.00pm
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Deafbloke said:

    Can anyone explain what is happening in Iran?

    I've been wondering. Their daily growth rate went from +50/60% overnight to +25% early this month, then a few days later dropped below 10% and kept falling to current 5%. It's not a pattern that gives much confidence in the data.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,541
    Deafbloke said:

    Can anyone explain what is happening in Iran? If the Imperial model is correct, surely deaths should be spiralling out of control to 500k or more?
    1. There is no lockdown (but some closures)
    2. Health service is limited with equipment shortages etc.
    3. Outbreak took off before Italy
    4. Ok, official numbers are suspect, but they would need to be wrong for deaths by orders of magnitude. Evidence for this would be appearing.

    Yes, it is interesting, as indeed are the Wuhan figures. It may well be innacurate reporting, but perhaps supports the idea that there are lots of minimally affected cases.

    Only when we do mass antibody testing will we find out.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Is this right, friends of my son applying for universal credit - told no payment til 27th April

    For real?

    Yes and no.

    They can apply for an advance which will be with them shortly.

    The advance will be deducted from the next 12 months worth of payments.
    Do you know how the rent situation stands? - is it a rent holiday or protection from eviction?
    I think it is a bit of both.

    I’m assuming it is a private landlord?
    Yes
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161

    COBR running late so press conference delayed. Going to guess tougher measures are going to have to go ahead, at least for London.

    Not quite.

    Cobra to meet at 5.00pm and Boris to address the nation around 7.00pm
    Bet he doesn't do it just for London though.

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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    MaxPB said:

    isam said:
    I do wonder whether the "everything the UK does is shit" crowd will stop posting these comparisons now that the UK is following a lower mortality path...
    Signs are optimistic but you're counting your chickens a bit here. There's quite a lot of variability in the numbers. Italy had- proportionately- a big leap from March 7th to 8th, a multiple of 1.57. That's much higher than they had in the previous few days, and much higher than they had since then, when the rate was closer to 1.3, dropping down to 1.2 or lower. It essentially meant they gained around 2 normal days worth of deaths in that one day. Since we didn't have an equivalent leap, it's quite expected that we'd go from +14 to +15 days as a result.

    Of course it may well be that over the next few days our numbers will continue to be better than their equivalent numbers after that one outlier, and so our line will continue to diverge from theirs. But let's not jump to conclusions yet.
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    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this evening and announce a new, stricter lockdown policy for the UK, the Telegraph understands.

    Mr Johnson will chair a meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra committee at 5pm today, then update the country on the latest social distancing measures Downing Street will impose.

    The address, which is expected at around 7pm this evening, will likely include the closure of all shops except supermarkets, food stores and pharmacies.

    The new measures come as the NHS announced 46 more people have died from Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours, bringing the total number of UK deaths to 335

    281 (Sunday's total) + 54 = 335

    So 54 = 46 (Eng.) + 8 (other parts of UK)

    would be my interpretation of that.
    Its key to remember again that is deaths with Covid 19, not necessarily because of Covid 19
    I would be cautious. Until we get testing up to speed and enough reagents to test more patients, we may be significantly under measuring too.
    I will just post this graph again from the ONS

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/highestnumberofexcesswinterdeathssince19992000/2015-11-25

    2014/15 Excess Winter deaths were 44000, thats between 400-500 extra deaths eaxh day. It didn't even make the news.
    Actually, it was in the news quite a bit! "Winter pressures" and "trolley waits" etc.

    If in the end the mortality is in 5 figures or less, that will be because of the measures that we take, not that there was no threat in the first place.

    Possibly, but we have destroyed the world economy for Covid 19 but did abolutely nothing for that outbreak of nasty flu in 2015.
    Did the news in February 2015 start each night with 500 people have died today of flu bringing the total this winter to 35,000?
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Italy

    Currently positive: 50418 (+3780 net increase)
    including 3204 in ICU

    Deaths: 602
    Healed: 408

    Total new cases: 4789 (1555 of them in Lombardia)
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    COBR running late so press conference delayed. Going to guess tougher measures are going to have to go ahead, at least for London.

    Not quite.

    Cobra to meet at 5.00pm and Boris to address the nation around 7.00pm
    Bet he doesn't do it just for London though.

    Because Cobra includes all the devolved nations I expect it will be agreed for the UK as a whole
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Italy

    Currently positive: 50418 (+3780 net increase)
    including 3204 in ICU

    Deaths: 602
    Healed: 408

    Total new cases: 4789 (1555 of them in Lombardia)

    Any breakdown of the deaths/cases - has the Chinese community been hardest hit ?
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    OT why doesn't the media point out that a 20% daily increase over 3-weeks leads to 15,000 deaths per day, would this not help change behaviours?
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    ABZABZ Posts: 441

    Italy

    Currently positive: 50418 (+3780 net increase)
    including 3204 in ICU

    Deaths: 602
    Healed: 408

    Total new cases: 4789 (1555 of them in Lombardia)

    That's good news - another substantial drop in new cases. Hopefully this continues over the next few days.
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Italy daily growth rate drops again, to +8%. Fantastic.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    Foxy said:

    Deafbloke said:

    Can anyone explain what is happening in Iran? If the Imperial model is correct, surely deaths should be spiralling out of control to 500k or more?
    1. There is no lockdown (but some closures)
    2. Health service is limited with equipment shortages etc.
    3. Outbreak took off before Italy
    4. Ok, official numbers are suspect, but they would need to be wrong for deaths by orders of magnitude. Evidence for this would be appearing.

    Yes, it is interesting, as indeed are the Wuhan figures. It may well be innacurate reporting, but perhaps supports the idea that there are lots of minimally affected cases.

    Only when we do mass antibody testing will we find out.
    What happened to the talk of two different strains? Is it possible that other (milder?) mutations are circulating and haven’t been picked up yet?
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,250
    geoffw said:

    Home cooking coming into fashion. Buy Delia.

    If you want to learn how to cook, Gordon Ramsay's your man on Youtube for the clearest demonstration of techniques. It might be due to his background as a youth footballer.
This discussion has been closed.