politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Is the monarchy in trouble?
Comments
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South Carolina is where Mayor Pete's price surely flies out I think.HYUFD said:1 -
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader0 -
Nonsense.ydoethur said:
The first name on the royal family tree is Woden.SandyRentool said:
Divinity? Seriously?Casino_Royale said:
The grandeur and majesty of the monarchy is kind of its point. It's that which gives it its magic and propels the symbols of our state to another level through its pomp and pageantry.SandyRentool said:On topic, if the role of the monarchy is no different to that of the president of Germany, then dispense with the palaces, the 'Royal Highness' titles for so many of their family and the OTT forelock tugging and deference.
I would like to be able to vote for our next head of state. I have no problem with Charles or William standing as candidates. I might even rank them above the Tory candidate - assuming we would use AV.
The ranks, rituals and mythology that go with it are part of what gives it its dignity.
We need both its stories and its divinity for it to be admired and envied as an institution.
The first name on the royal family tree is Fergus Mór mac Eirc. Back when das Haus Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha were still living off nuts and roots.0 -
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.0 -
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader0 -
https://twitter.com/BBCRichardMoss/status/1231559476005744642?s=20felix said:
I'm stunned that Starmer failed to answer. The Tories will be delighted at that hostage to fortune.Theuniondivvie said:Sometimes avoiding an answer is confidence and giving one is over compensating.
https://twitter.com/joeIjoeIjoel/status/1231562554931138561?s=20
I suppose we should be grateful that Nandy wasn't asked if she would press the button to keep the Union intact.0 -
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.0 -
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.0 -
Woden is pre Roman.StuartDickson said:
Nonsense.ydoethur said:
The first name on the royal family tree is Woden.SandyRentool said:
Divinity? Seriously?Casino_Royale said:
The grandeur and majesty of the monarchy is kind of its point. It's that which gives it its magic and propels the symbols of our state to another level through its pomp and pageantry.SandyRentool said:On topic, if the role of the monarchy is no different to that of the president of Germany, then dispense with the palaces, the 'Royal Highness' titles for so many of their family and the OTT forelock tugging and deference.
I would like to be able to vote for our next head of state. I have no problem with Charles or William standing as candidates. I might even rank them above the Tory candidate - assuming we would use AV.
The ranks, rituals and mythology that go with it are part of what gives it its dignity.
We need both its stories and its divinity for it to be admired and envied as an institution.
The first name on the royal family tree is Fergus Mór mac Eirc. Back when das Haus Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha were still living off nuts and roots.0 -
Labour has an opportunity to win in the South. If the last few years have taught us anything it is that there is no such thing as safe seats for life. Time to attack the blue soft underbelly.SandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.0 -
I wont be unhappy with Keir winning. I hope he puts Nandy into a high position if he does.SandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.0 -
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority0 -
Starmer’s position, while arguably a cop out, is perfectly sensible. After all, no PM reveals the contents of the sealed letter they write to SSBN commanders.HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/BBCRichardMoss/status/1231559476005744642?s=20felix said:
I'm stunned that Starmer failed to answer. The Tories will be delighted at that hostage to fortune.Theuniondivvie said:Sometimes avoiding an answer is confidence and giving one is over compensating.
https://twitter.com/joeIjoeIjoel/status/1231562554931138561?s=20
I suppose we should be grateful that Nandy wasn't asked if she would press the button to keep the Union intact.2 -
In Scotland! From 1,035,528 to 511,838.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.0 -
The party might need to go a little to the right for that.Jonathan said:
Labour has an opportunity to win in the South. If the last few years have taught us anything it is that there is no such thing as safe seats for life. Time to attack the blue soft underbelly.SandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
0 -
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.0 -
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority0 -
In Scotland.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.0 -
A bit like muscles then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
On the nuclear weapon there is no third way.Mysticrose said:
I get a little weary of this 'yes' or 'no' fascism. Life is rarely, in fact never, that simple. Kantian epistemology is one good reason, but it's less highbrow than that. Between the simplistics of 'yes' and 'no' lie many nuances of meaning. We shouldn't succumb to the binary tyranny.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No he hasn't. His answer was not that of someone who is a leaderJonathan said:
On the contrary, Starmer has clearly thought about it. Good for him.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This does show how flawed Starmer is. He is so frightened of his support he cannot give an honest answer in case he upsets themfelix said:
I'm stunned that Starmer failed to answer. The Tories will be delighted at that hostage to fortune.Theuniondivvie said:Sometimes avoiding an answer is confidence and giving one is over compensating.
https://twitter.com/joeIjoeIjoel/status/1231562554931138561?s=20
I suppose we should be grateful that Nandy wasn't asked if she would press the button to keep the Union intact.
And so many think he is the messiah when plainly he is no leader
The honest answer is yes or no
You either use it or lose it
So, if we have it we have to use it?0 -
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today0 -
Nandy also said she opposed Trident renewal which Starmer did not do as such, Long Bailey surprisingly strongest on defence as she was on the monarchy ie pro while Starmer wanted a diluted monarchy and Nandy said she was a republicanNigelb said:
Starmer’s position, while arguably a cop out, is perfectly sensible. After all, no PM reveals the contents of the sealed letter they write to SSBN commanders.HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/BBCRichardMoss/status/1231559476005744642?s=20felix said:
I'm stunned that Starmer failed to answer. The Tories will be delighted at that hostage to fortune.Theuniondivvie said:Sometimes avoiding an answer is confidence and giving one is over compensating.
https://twitter.com/joeIjoeIjoel/status/1231562554931138561?s=20
I suppose we should be grateful that Nandy wasn't asked if she would press the button to keep the Union intact.0 -
You seem averse to providing proof for all these claims to knowing how the general populace and sub sections thereof are feeling.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You cannot accept that the SNP is not perfect and is under fire on policies across the political divide but then you will not see Independence no matter if another referendum is calledTheuniondivvie said:
Have you had 'Labour supporters' on social media telling you that?Big_G_NorthWales said:
This does show how flawed Starmer is. He is so frightened of his support he cannot give an honest answer in case he upsets themfelix said:
I'm stunned that Starmer failed to answer. The Tories will be delighted at that hostage to fortune.Theuniondivvie said:Sometimes avoiding an answer is confidence and giving one is over compensating.
https://twitter.com/joeIjoeIjoel/status/1231562554931138561?s=20
I suppose we should be grateful that Nandy wasn't asked if she would press the button to keep the Union intact.
And so many think he is the messiah when plainly he is no leader
Just as a bit of guidance, if I were to say that there are folk who thought Boris Johnson was a terrible human being and would be a disaster as a leader of the Tory party and PM, who then did a volte-face to fall in behind him and recommend everyone else should do similar, I don't think I'd have to look far to find examples of that.2 -
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today2 -
Sargon says hello.StuartDickson said:
Nonsense.ydoethur said:
The first name on the royal family tree is Woden.SandyRentool said:
Divinity? Seriously?Casino_Royale said:
The grandeur and majesty of the monarchy is kind of its point. It's that which gives it its magic and propels the symbols of our state to another level through its pomp and pageantry.SandyRentool said:On topic, if the role of the monarchy is no different to that of the president of Germany, then dispense with the palaces, the 'Royal Highness' titles for so many of their family and the OTT forelock tugging and deference.
I would like to be able to vote for our next head of state. I have no problem with Charles or William standing as candidates. I might even rank them above the Tory candidate - assuming we would use AV.
The ranks, rituals and mythology that go with it are part of what gives it its dignity.
We need both its stories and its divinity for it to be admired and envied as an institution.
The first name on the royal family tree is Fergus Mór mac Eirc. Back when das Haus Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha were still living off nuts and roots.0 -
No point in having it if you will not use it. That is why it is a deterrentlogical_song said:
A bit like muscles then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
On the nuclear weapon there is no third way.Mysticrose said:
I get a little weary of this 'yes' or 'no' fascism. Life is rarely, in fact never, that simple. Kantian epistemology is one good reason, but it's less highbrow than that. Between the simplistics of 'yes' and 'no' lie many nuances of meaning. We shouldn't succumb to the binary tyranny.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No he hasn't. His answer was not that of someone who is a leaderJonathan said:
On the contrary, Starmer has clearly thought about it. Good for him.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This does show how flawed Starmer is. He is so frightened of his support he cannot give an honest answer in case he upsets themfelix said:
I'm stunned that Starmer failed to answer. The Tories will be delighted at that hostage to fortune.Theuniondivvie said:Sometimes avoiding an answer is confidence and giving one is over compensating.
https://twitter.com/joeIjoeIjoel/status/1231562554931138561?s=20
I suppose we should be grateful that Nandy wasn't asked if she would press the button to keep the Union intact.
And so many think he is the messiah when plainly he is no leader
The honest answer is yes or no
You either use it or lose it
So, if we have it we have to use it?0 -
All the more remarkable given the Labour vote has grown by about 2M overall in the same time.ydoethur said:
In Scotland! From 1,035,528 to 511,838.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.0 -
Squally? Bollocks.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50766014
0 -
There are a great many areas in the south - London, Oxford, Reading, Milton Keynes, Brighton, Bristol, Southampton, Warwick, Worcester, Plymouth - where tacking left would do Labour no harm. These are areas increasingly dominated by white collar university graduates who tend to be increasingly left wing. Extinction Rebellion is not run by the working class looking for a better life.RobD said:
The party might need to go a little to the right for that.Jonathan said:
Labour has an opportunity to win in the South. If the last few years have taught us anything it is that there is no such thing as safe seats for life. Time to attack the blue soft underbelly.SandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.1 -
We have no idea whether anyone would use it regardless of what they say.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No point in having it if you will not use it. That is why it is a deterrentlogical_song said:
A bit like muscles then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
On the nuclear weapon there is no third way.Mysticrose said:
I get a little weary of this 'yes' or 'no' fascism. Life is rarely, in fact never, that simple. Kantian epistemology is one good reason, but it's less highbrow than that. Between the simplistics of 'yes' and 'no' lie many nuances of meaning. We shouldn't succumb to the binary tyranny.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No he hasn't. His answer was not that of someone who is a leaderJonathan said:
On the contrary, Starmer has clearly thought about it. Good for him.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This does show how flawed Starmer is. He is so frightened of his support he cannot give an honest answer in case he upsets themfelix said:
I'm stunned that Starmer failed to answer. The Tories will be delighted at that hostage to fortune.Theuniondivvie said:Sometimes avoiding an answer is confidence and giving one is over compensating.
https://twitter.com/joeIjoeIjoel/status/1231562554931138561?s=20
I suppose we should be grateful that Nandy wasn't asked if she would press the button to keep the Union intact.
And so many think he is the messiah when plainly he is no leader
The honest answer is yes or no
You either use it or lose it
So, if we have it we have to use it?1 -
Not sure you’re quite catching all the nuances of deterrence there, Big_G.Big_G_NorthWales said:
On the nuclear weapon there is no third way.Mysticrose said:
I get a little weary of this 'yes' or 'no' fascism. Life is rarely, in fact never, that simple. Kantian epistemology is one good reason, but it's less highbrow than that. Between the simplistics of 'yes' and 'no' lie many nuances of meaning. We shouldn't succumb to the binary tyranny.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No he hasn't. His answer was not that of someone who is a leaderJonathan said:
On the contrary, Starmer has clearly thought about it. Good for him.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This does show how flawed Starmer is. He is so frightened of his support he cannot give an honest answer in case he upsets themfelix said:
I'm stunned that Starmer failed to answer. The Tories will be delighted at that hostage to fortune.Theuniondivvie said:Sometimes avoiding an answer is confidence and giving one is over compensating.
https://twitter.com/joeIjoeIjoel/status/1231562554931138561?s=20
I suppose we should be grateful that Nandy wasn't asked if she would press the button to keep the Union intact.
And so many think he is the messiah when plainly he is no leader
The honest answer is yes or no
You either use it or lose it
0 -
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today0 -
#fuckoffbloombergPulpstar said:BLOOMBERG CLEARLY ELECTABLE OVER SANDERS LOLOLOL
https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/12316114696677212161 -
I've laid him down to zero.Pulpstar said:Buttigieg's odds are surely completely wrong (Far too short) right now ?
He's going to get destroyed in South Carolina.
Also dug myself out my Sanders hole.0 -
"Reservations"??? IIRC, he was going to be a disaster. Unvoteable for you as was Hunt.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today
Now, it is like the second coming.......0 -
Labour’s vote has risen in Wales since 2005 - from 591,000 to 632,000 - but their number of seats has fallen from 30 to 22. It’s a sign that should worry Labour that their vote is becoming grossly inefficient.Jonathan said:
All the more remarkable given the Labour vote has grown by about 2M overall in the same time.ydoethur said:
In Scotland! From 1,035,528 to 511,838.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.0 -
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.0 -
Jonathan sounds like tim more and more every day.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today0 -
After Boris won the biggest majority since Blair who he voted for twice, BigG saw the lightBeibheirli_C said:
"Reservations"??? IIRC, he was going to be a disaster. Unvoteable for you as was Hunt.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today
Now, it is like the second coming.......0 -
At last we're getting to the nub of the matter.
https://twitter.com/sparkyhamill/status/1231227411959775232?s=201 -
That was then, this is now. Squally was putting it mildly.StuartDickson said:
Squally? Bollocks.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-507660140 -
Considering he’s such a narcissist I’m pleased but surprised to learn he comes second.Beibheirli_C said:
"Reservations"??? IIRC, he was going to be a disaster. Unvoteable for you as was Hunt.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today
Now, it is like the second coming.......1 -
I speak only as I find on our facebook group and of course we will argue over the SNP as my wife and I are unionists and always will be. Of course the SNP have an arrogance and are dismissive of any criticsm but the next few months will see an open battle over succession and of course Salmonds trial and the unknowns following itTheuniondivvie said:
You seem averse to providing proof for all these claims to knowing how the general populace and sub sections thereof are feeling.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You cannot accept that the SNP is not perfect and is under fire on policies across the political divide but then you will not see Independence no matter if another referendum is calledTheuniondivvie said:
Have you had 'Labour supporters' on social media telling you that?Big_G_NorthWales said:
This does show how flawed Starmer is. He is so frightened of his support he cannot give an honest answer in case he upsets themfelix said:
I'm stunned that Starmer failed to answer. The Tories will be delighted at that hostage to fortune.Theuniondivvie said:Sometimes avoiding an answer is confidence and giving one is over compensating.
https://twitter.com/joeIjoeIjoel/status/1231562554931138561?s=20
I suppose we should be grateful that Nandy wasn't asked if she would press the button to keep the Union intact.
And so many think he is the messiah when plainly he is no leader
Just as a bit of guidance, if I were to say that there are folk who thought Boris Johnson was a terrible human being and would be a disaster as a leader of the Tory party and PM, who then did a volte-face to fall in behind him and recommend everyone else should do similar, I don't think I'd have to look far to find examples of that.
Pride comes before a fall1 -
Yes. It's not the people in it who matter so much as the institution itself and what it represents.SandyRentool said:
Divinity? Seriously?Casino_Royale said:
The grandeur and majesty of the monarchy is kind of its point. It's that which gives it its magic and propels the symbols of our state to another level through its pomp and pageantry.SandyRentool said:On topic, if the role of the monarchy is no different to that of the president of Germany, then dispense with the palaces, the 'Royal Highness' titles for so many of their family and the OTT forelock tugging and deference.
I would like to be able to vote for our next head of state. I have no problem with Charles or William standing as candidates. I might even rank them above the Tory candidate - assuming we would use AV.
The ranks, rituals and mythology that go with it are part of what gives it its dignity.
We need both its stories and its divinity for it to be admired and envied as an institution.
I know pb dresses toward the radical republican but this is what I think republicans consistently miss: they focus the argument about the head of state toward the individual occupying it. In reality we should be far more concerned with the constitution and the institution and seeing that the individuals within it play by the rules.
If you get that bit right it doesn't really matter much who the individual is.0 -
More a Damascene conversion in that case?HYUFD said:
After Boris won the biggest majority since Blair who he voted for twice, BigG saw the lightBeibheirli_C said:
"Reservations"??? IIRC, he was going to be a disaster. Unvoteable for you as was Hunt.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today
Now, it is like the second coming.......
1 -
Yet they still win most votes and seats, Plaid and the LDs are hapless in Wales and the Tories too entrenched in North and Mid Wales while Labour dominates the populous Southydoethur said:
Labour’s vote has risen in Wales since 2005 - from 591,000 to 632,000 - but their number of seats has fallen from 30 to 22. It’s a sign that should worry Labour that their vote is becoming grossly inefficient.Jonathan said:
All the more remarkable given the Labour vote has grown by about 2M overall in the same time.ydoethur said:
In Scotland! From 1,035,528 to 511,838.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.0 -
No point in having it if you will not say you will use it. That's a different thing.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No point in having it if you will not use it. That is why it is a deterrentlogical_song said:
A bit like muscles then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
On the nuclear weapon there is no third way.Mysticrose said:
I get a little weary of this 'yes' or 'no' fascism. Life is rarely, in fact never, that simple. Kantian epistemology is one good reason, but it's less highbrow than that. Between the simplistics of 'yes' and 'no' lie many nuances of meaning. We shouldn't succumb to the binary tyranny.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No he hasn't. His answer was not that of someone who is a leaderJonathan said:
On the contrary, Starmer has clearly thought about it. Good for him.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This does show how flawed Starmer is. He is so frightened of his support he cannot give an honest answer in case he upsets themfelix said:
I'm stunned that Starmer failed to answer. The Tories will be delighted at that hostage to fortune.Theuniondivvie said:Sometimes avoiding an answer is confidence and giving one is over compensating.
https://twitter.com/joeIjoeIjoel/status/1231562554931138561?s=20
I suppose we should be grateful that Nandy wasn't asked if she would press the button to keep the Union intact.
And so many think he is the messiah when plainly he is no leader
The honest answer is yes or no
You either use it or lose it
So, if we have it we have to use it?0 -
He had a net positive rating in Scotland with MoriStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.0 -
Typical PB Bubbler. Meanwhile, in the real world...Luckyguy1983 said:
That was then, this is now. Squally was putting it mildly.StuartDickson said:
Squally? Bollocks.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-507660140 -
Delivering an 80 seat majority will do that.Beibheirli_C said:
"Reservations"??? IIRC, he was going to be a disaster. Unvoteable for you as was Hunt.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today
Now, it is like the second coming.......
You'll just have to take it from me.0 -
That’s a compliment. Tim is cool.squareroot2 said:
Jonathan sounds like tim more and more every day.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today0 -
Boris has taken us out of Europe and has turned left on his politics, and I am content with both of these actions.Beibheirli_C said:
"Reservations"??? IIRC, he was going to be a disaster. Unvoteable for you as was Hunt.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today
Now, it is like the second coming.......
Former remainers just cannot accept the reality and of course attack Boris with a passion that would not be there if he said he wanted to remain in the EU0 -
Men wearing skirts rather than trousers has always been embarrassing! The beer's a bit crap, and despite promising to try to play Rugby they've never worked it outTheuniondivvie said:At last we're getting to the nub of the matter.
https://twitter.com/sparkyhamill/status/1231227411959775232?s=20
Scotland!
Generally the best bit of the UK though, for all the reasons I've failed to mention.0 -
So did Ruth Davidson. Bugger all use it did her.HYUFD said:
He had a net positive rating in Scotland with MoriStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.0 -
It's only been 10 weeks since the election so a little churlish to berate Labour for a lack of progress given we are still in the honeymoon phase. Let's see where we are in two years and we can pass judgement on Labour's progress or lack of it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progress
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
In any case, it's often said Oppositions don't win elections but Governments lose them. Even if Boris is re-elected in 2024, by 2029 the Conservatives will have been in Government for 19 years - an unprecedented period under universal suffrage.
I'd also argue nothing lasts forever - one day the Conservatives will find themselves on the wrong side of opinion and on the wrong end of an election result.0 -
The first one is between Boris and himself...ydoethur said:
Considering he’s such a narcissist I’m pleased but surprised to learn he comes second.Beibheirli_C said:
"Reservations"??? IIRC, he was going to be a disaster. Unvoteable for you as was Hunt.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today
Now, it is like the second coming.......
0 -
We know Ruth Davidson was hitting home due to the constant nationalist attacks on her.StuartDickson said:
So did Ruth Davidson. Bugger all use it did her.HYUFD said:
He had a net positive rating in Scotland with MoriStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.0 -
Starmer will not cut it with the ScotsStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.0 -
Hardly, she won lots of SNP seats in 2016 and more in 2017 but Brexit held her back.StuartDickson said:
So did Ruth Davidson. Bugger all use it did her.HYUFD said:
He had a net positive rating in Scotland with MoriStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
Starmer is pro single market however and has a plus 7% rating with Scots, higher than his plus 5% rating across the UK
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/low-public-awareness-all-labour-leadership-candidates-although-keir-starmer-starting-stronger0 -
If you say so.StuartDickson said:
Typical PB Bubbler. Meanwhile, in the real world...Luckyguy1983 said:
That was then, this is now. Squally was putting it mildly.StuartDickson said:
Squally? Bollocks.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-507660140 -
Tories were close behind them this time in terms of votes and they ran them much closer than you might think in many seats in the valleys. I am still working on that thread header.HYUFD said:
Yet they still win most votes and seats, Plaid and the LDs are hapless in Wales and the Tories too entrenched in North and Mid Wales while Labour dominates the populous Southydoethur said:
Labour’s vote has risen in Wales since 2005 - from 591,000 to 632,000 - but their number of seats has fallen from 30 to 22. It’s a sign that should worry Labour that their vote is becoming grossly inefficient.Jonathan said:
All the more remarkable given the Labour vote has grown by about 2M overall in the same time.ydoethur said:
In Scotland! From 1,035,528 to 511,838.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.1 -
He would actually be the most popular Labour leader with Scots since BrownBig_G_NorthWales said:
Starmer will not cut it with the ScotsStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.0 -
The problem with being a big spending social democrat is, as Matthew D'Ancona put it ,"you can have your cake, you can eat your cake but either way you end up paying for it". We will all end up paying for Johnson's pending splurge in time.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris has taken us out of Europe and has turned left on his politics, and I am content with both of these actions.
Former remainers just cannot accept the reality and of course attack Boris with a passion that would not be there if he said he wanted to remain in the EU
Put it another way, you can promise the world but it ends up costing the earth.0 -
Then Jackson Coleslaw took the party backwards and was punished by being elected permanent leader.HYUFD said:
Hardly, she won lots of SNP seats in 2016 and more in 2017 but Brexit held her back.StuartDickson said:
So did Ruth Davidson. Bugger all use it did her.HYUFD said:
He had a net positive rating in Scotland with MoriStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
Starmer is pro single market however and has a plus 7% rating with Scots, higher than his plus 5% rating across the UK
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/low-public-awareness-all-labour-leadership-candidates-although-keir-starmer-starting-stronger0 -
I'm North London and I'm voting for her.SandyRentool said:It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.
1 -
If the Tories did not win Wales in 2019 with a majority of 80 they likely never willydoethur said:
Tories were close behind them this time in terms of votes and they ran them much closer than you might think in many seats in the valleys. I am still working on that thread header.HYUFD said:
Yet they still win most votes and seats, Plaid and the LDs are hapless in Wales and the Tories too entrenched in North and Mid Wales while Labour dominates the populous Southydoethur said:
Labour’s vote has risen in Wales since 2005 - from 591,000 to 632,000 - but their number of seats has fallen from 30 to 22. It’s a sign that should worry Labour that their vote is becoming grossly inefficient.Jonathan said:
All the more remarkable given the Labour vote has grown by about 2M overall in the same time.ydoethur said:
In Scotland! From 1,035,528 to 511,838.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.0 -
It is a deterrent if some uncertainty is present.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No point in having it if you will not use it. That is why it is a deterrentlogical_song said:
A bit like muscles then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
On the nuclear weapon there is no third way.Mysticrose said:
I get a little weary of this 'yes' or 'no' fascism. Life is rarely, in fact never, that simple. Kantian epistemology is one good reason, but it's less highbrow than that. Between the simplistics of 'yes' and 'no' lie many nuances of meaning. We shouldn't succumb to the binary tyranny.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No he hasn't. His answer was not that of someone who is a leaderJonathan said:
On the contrary, Starmer has clearly thought about it. Good for him.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This does show how flawed Starmer is. He is so frightened of his support he cannot give an honest answer in case he upsets themfelix said:
I'm stunned that Starmer failed to answer. The Tories will be delighted at that hostage to fortune.Theuniondivvie said:Sometimes avoiding an answer is confidence and giving one is over compensating.
https://twitter.com/joeIjoeIjoel/status/1231562554931138561?s=20
I suppose we should be grateful that Nandy wasn't asked if she would press the button to keep the Union intact.
And so many think he is the messiah when plainly he is no leader
The honest answer is yes or no
You either use it or lose it
So, if we have it we have to use it?
The reality is that it is an obsolete weapon system designed for the strategy and threats of a half century ago. Russia is no longer a military threat to us.
It is now a right wing absolutist state as in Czarist times. That is why both the leaders of Britain First and Tommy Robinson were there this week. They don't need to invade when they can influence our governments to put Trump and Brexit in place and to have an absolutist russophile at the heart of government.0 -
An English North London elite lawyer being popular in Scotland for labour. - not a chanceHYUFD said:
He would actually be the most popular Labour leader with Scots since BrownBig_G_NorthWales said:
Starmer will not cut it with the ScotsStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.1 -
I think Labour under Starmer could overtake the Tories for 2nd in Scotland by winning over SNP converts, Carslaw will just hold the Tory vote at 25%SandyRentool said:
Then Jackson Coleslaw took the party backwards and was punished by being elected permanent leader.HYUFD said:
Hardly, she won lots of SNP seats in 2016 and more in 2017 but Brexit held her back.StuartDickson said:
So did Ruth Davidson. Bugger all use it did her.HYUFD said:
He had a net positive rating in Scotland with MoriStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
Starmer is pro single market however and has a plus 7% rating with Scots, higher than his plus 5% rating across the UK
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/low-public-awareness-all-labour-leadership-candidates-although-keir-starmer-starting-stronger0 -
I agree 100% with your last paragraphstodge said:
It's only been 10 weeks since the election so a little churlish to berate Labour for a lack of progress given we are still in the honeymoon phase. Let's see where we are in two years and we can pass judgement on Labour's progress or lack of it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progress
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
In any case, it's often said Oppositions don't win elections but Governments lose them. Even if Boris is re-elected in 2024, by 2029 the Conservatives will have been in Government for 19 years - an unprecedented period under universal suffrage.
I'd also argue nothing lasts forever - one day the Conservatives will find themselves on the wrong side of opinion and on the wrong end of an election result.0 -
Read the polls, he polls higher in Scotland than England and went to uni in Leeds not the South for undergrad.Big_G_NorthWales said:
An English North London elite lawyer being popular in Scotland for labour. - not a chanceHYUFD said:
He would actually be the most popular Labour leader with Scots since BrownBig_G_NorthWales said:
Starmer will not cut it with the ScotsStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
Sturgeon is also an elite lawyer anyway0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/21/mike-bloomberg-facebook-ad-campaignCasino_Royale said:
#fuckoffbloombergPulpstar said:BLOOMBERG CLEARLY ELECTABLE OVER SANDERS LOLOLOL
https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1231611469667721216
He’s doing 69% of all political Facebook ad spend this year.
12% is Trump and the rest is the whole Dem field.0 -
Not for a while, you have become more of a Boris fanboy than HYUFD'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today
0 -
You do not have a clue on Scots politics and seem to think opinion polls are infalliableHYUFD said:
I think Labour under Starmer could overtake the Tories for 2nd in Scotland by winning over SNP converts, Carslaw will just hold the Tory vote at 25%SandyRentool said:
Then Jackson Coleslaw took the party backwards and was punished by being elected permanent leader.HYUFD said:
Hardly, she won lots of SNP seats in 2016 and more in 2017 but Brexit held her back.StuartDickson said:
So did Ruth Davidson. Bugger all use it did her.HYUFD said:
He had a net positive rating in Scotland with MoriStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
Starmer is pro single market however and has a plus 7% rating with Scots, higher than his plus 5% rating across the UK
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/low-public-awareness-all-labour-leadership-candidates-although-keir-starmer-starting-stronger
SNP supporters will not vote labour, they stepped into labour's shoes and are the authentic left in Scotland2 -
If the world would rid itself of these weapons I would be delightedFoxy said:
It is a deterrent if some uncertainty is present.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No point in having it if you will not use it. That is why it is a deterrentlogical_song said:
A bit like muscles then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
On the nuclear weapon there is no third way.Mysticrose said:
I get a little weary of this 'yes' or 'no' fascism. Life is rarely, in fact never, that simple. Kantian epistemology is one good reason, but it's less highbrow than that. Between the simplistics of 'yes' and 'no' lie many nuances of meaning. We shouldn't succumb to the binary tyranny.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No he hasn't. His answer was not that of someone who is a leaderJonathan said:
On the contrary, Starmer has clearly thought about it. Good for him.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This does show how flawed Starmer is. He is so frightened of his support he cannot give an honest answer in case he upsets themfelix said:
I'm stunned that Starmer failed to answer. The Tories will be delighted at that hostage to fortune.Theuniondivvie said:Sometimes avoiding an answer is confidence and giving one is over compensating.
https://twitter.com/joeIjoeIjoel/status/1231562554931138561?s=20
I suppose we should be grateful that Nandy wasn't asked if she would press the button to keep the Union intact.
And so many think he is the messiah when plainly he is no leader
The honest answer is yes or no
You either use it or lose it
So, if we have it we have to use it?
The reality is that it is an obsolete weapon system designed for the strategy and threats of a half century ago. Russia is no longer a military threat to us.
It is now a right wing absolutist state as in Czarist times. That is why both the leaders of Britain First and Tommy Robinson were there this week. They don't need to invade when they can influence our governments to put Trump and Brexit in place and to have an absolutist russophile at the heart of government.0 -
Sometimes you get things ever so wrong and this is one of themHYUFD said:
Read the polls, he polls higher in Scotland than England and went to uni in Leeds not the South for undergrad.Big_G_NorthWales said:
An English North London elite lawyer being popular in Scotland for labour. - not a chanceHYUFD said:
He would actually be the most popular Labour leader with Scots since BrownBig_G_NorthWales said:
Starmer will not cut it with the ScotsStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
Sturgeon is also an elite lawyer anyway0 -
The polls are saying he's more popular than Sturgeon?HYUFD said:
Read the polls, he polls higher in Scotland than England and went to uni in Leeds not the South for undergrad.Big_G_NorthWales said:
An English North London elite lawyer being popular in Scotland for labour. - not a chanceHYUFD said:
He would actually be the most popular Labour leader with Scots since BrownBig_G_NorthWales said:
Starmer will not cut it with the ScotsStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
Sturgeon is also an elite lawyer anyway
PMSL I don't think so! And you came out with this garbage during Corbyn's original leadership campaign. Until Labour have a USP they are deceased in Scotland.0 -
I disagree, a reasonably competent if dull social democrat leader of Labour like Starmer who is pro single market but not independence obsessed could start to win over centrist SNP voters after over a decade of the SNP dominating in ScotlandBig_G_NorthWales said:
You do not have a clue on Scots politics and seem to think opinion polls are infalliableHYUFD said:
I think Labour under Starmer could overtake the Tories for 2nd in Scotland by winning over SNP converts, Carslaw will just hold the Tory vote at 25%SandyRentool said:
Then Jackson Coleslaw took the party backwards and was punished by being elected permanent leader.HYUFD said:
Hardly, she won lots of SNP seats in 2016 and more in 2017 but Brexit held her back.StuartDickson said:
So did Ruth Davidson. Bugger all use it did her.HYUFD said:
He had a net positive rating in Scotland with MoriStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
Starmer is pro single market however and has a plus 7% rating with Scots, higher than his plus 5% rating across the UK
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/low-public-awareness-all-labour-leadership-candidates-although-keir-starmer-starting-stronger
SNP supporters will not vote labour, they stepped into labour's shoes and are the authentic left in Scotland0 -
Now that is not trueMexicanpete said:
Not for a while, you have become more of a Boris fanboy than HYUFD'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today0 -
If the Tories could not break through in the North East in 1983 with a majority of 144 they likely never will.HYUFD said:
If the Tories did not win Wales in 2019 with a majority of 80 they likely never willydoethur said:
Tories were close behind them this time in terms of votes and they ran them much closer than you might think in many seats in the valleys. I am still working on that thread header.HYUFD said:
Yet they still win most votes and seats, Plaid and the LDs are hapless in Wales and the Tories too entrenched in North and Mid Wales while Labour dominates the populous Southydoethur said:
Labour’s vote has risen in Wales since 2005 - from 591,000 to 632,000 - but their number of seats has fallen from 30 to 22. It’s a sign that should worry Labour that their vote is becoming grossly inefficient.Jonathan said:
All the more remarkable given the Labour vote has grown by about 2M overall in the same time.ydoethur said:
In Scotland! From 1,035,528 to 511,838.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.
But they did.0 -
Corbyn gained 6 SNP seats in 2017 but Starmer is a more telegenic, centrist leader than CorbynPhilip_Thompson said:
The polls are saying he's more popular than Sturgeon?HYUFD said:
Read the polls, he polls higher in Scotland than England and went to uni in Leeds not the South for undergrad.Big_G_NorthWales said:
An English North London elite lawyer being popular in Scotland for labour. - not a chanceHYUFD said:
He would actually be the most popular Labour leader with Scots since BrownBig_G_NorthWales said:
Starmer will not cut it with the ScotsStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
Sturgeon is also an elite lawyer anyway
PMSL I don't think so! And you came out with this garbage during Corbyn's original leadership campaign. Until Labour have a USP they are deceased in Scotland.0 -
Anecdote alert.HYUFD said:
If the Tories did not win Wales in 2019 with a majority of 80 they likely never willydoethur said:
Tories were close behind them this time in terms of votes and they ran them much closer than you might think in many seats in the valleys. I am still working on that thread header.HYUFD said:
Yet they still win most votes and seats, Plaid and the LDs are hapless in Wales and the Tories too entrenched in North and Mid Wales while Labour dominates the populous Southydoethur said:
Labour’s vote has risen in Wales since 2005 - from 591,000 to 632,000 - but their number of seats has fallen from 30 to 22. It’s a sign that should worry Labour that their vote is becoming grossly inefficient.Jonathan said:
All the more remarkable given the Labour vote has grown by about 2M overall in the same time.ydoethur said:
In Scotland! From 1,035,528 to 511,838.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.
Brexit has brought across a number of my blue collar contacts in Port Talbot to the dark side. A number of professional people I know lent Boris their vote while Corbyn was the alternative. So yes I believe you are probably right.1 -
If you ask for a show of hands you might be surprised.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Now that is not trueMexicanpete said:
Not for a while, you have become more of a Boris fanboy than HYUFD'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today0 -
Second place, at least!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Now that is not trueMexicanpete said:
Not for a while, you have become more of a Boris fanboy than HYUFD'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Along with millions of others though I have my reservations on Boris as I have expressed on here from time to timeJonathan said:
You resigned last year and made a big song and dance about it here. You then came running back and are now reinstalled as a cheerleader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have no idea about my membership of the party.Jonathan said:
If only we had your independent viewpoint BigG. You lasted all of five minutes outside the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is predictable but no signs that labour are making progressJonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader
I know your opinion on Boris but he is there for five years if he wants to be and none of the labour leaders will see an 80 seat majority
I voted for Blair twice and apart from Iraq he would be a winning labour leader again today0 -
Labour won most North East seats in 2019 tooydoethur said:
If the Tories could not break through in the North East in 1983 with a majority of 144 they likely never will.HYUFD said:
If the Tories did not win Wales in 2019 with a majority of 80 they likely never willydoethur said:
Tories were close behind them this time in terms of votes and they ran them much closer than you might think in many seats in the valleys. I am still working on that thread header.HYUFD said:
Yet they still win most votes and seats, Plaid and the LDs are hapless in Wales and the Tories too entrenched in North and Mid Wales while Labour dominates the populous Southydoethur said:
Labour’s vote has risen in Wales since 2005 - from 591,000 to 632,000 - but their number of seats has fallen from 30 to 22. It’s a sign that should worry Labour that their vote is becoming grossly inefficient.Jonathan said:
All the more remarkable given the Labour vote has grown by about 2M overall in the same time.ydoethur said:
In Scotland! From 1,035,528 to 511,838.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.
But they did.0 -
Further anecdote alert.Mexicanpete said:
Anecdote alert.HYUFD said:
If the Tories did not win Wales in 2019 with a majority of 80 they likely never willydoethur said:
Tories were close behind them this time in terms of votes and they ran them much closer than you might think in many seats in the valleys. I am still working on that thread header.HYUFD said:
Yet they still win most votes and seats, Plaid and the LDs are hapless in Wales and the Tories too entrenched in North and Mid Wales while Labour dominates the populous Southydoethur said:
Labour’s vote has risen in Wales since 2005 - from 591,000 to 632,000 - but their number of seats has fallen from 30 to 22. It’s a sign that should worry Labour that their vote is becoming grossly inefficient.Jonathan said:
All the more remarkable given the Labour vote has grown by about 2M overall in the same time.ydoethur said:
In Scotland! From 1,035,528 to 511,838.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.
Brexit has brought across a number of my blue collar contacts in Port Talbot to the dark side. A number of professional people I know lent Boris their vote while Corbyn was the alternative. So yes I believe you are probably right.
All my Welsh connections are thoroughly fed up with Labour. What may actually have saved them from further embarrassment this time is that Johnson is a divisive twat.0 -
...but you understand where Ydoethur is coming from. There are no longer any safe Labour seats.HYUFD said:
Labour won most North East seats in 2019 tooydoethur said:
If the Tories could not break through in the North East in 1983 with a majority of 144 they likely never will.HYUFD said:
If the Tories did not win Wales in 2019 with a majority of 80 they likely never willydoethur said:
Tories were close behind them this time in terms of votes and they ran them much closer than you might think in many seats in the valleys. I am still working on that thread header.HYUFD said:
Yet they still win most votes and seats, Plaid and the LDs are hapless in Wales and the Tories too entrenched in North and Mid Wales while Labour dominates the populous Southydoethur said:
Labour’s vote has risen in Wales since 2005 - from 591,000 to 632,000 - but their number of seats has fallen from 30 to 22. It’s a sign that should worry Labour that their vote is becoming grossly inefficient.Jonathan said:
All the more remarkable given the Labour vote has grown by about 2M overall in the same time.ydoethur said:
In Scotland! From 1,035,528 to 511,838.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.
But they did.
On the other hand Christchurch will always be Tory.1 -
East Ham and Knowsley, Leyton, Hackney, Tottenham, Liverpool and Manchester beg to differ.Mexicanpete said:
...but you understand where Ydoethur is coming from. There are no longer any safe Labour seats.HYUFD said:
Labour won most North East seats in 2019 tooydoethur said:
If the Tories could not break through in the North East in 1983 with a majority of 144 they likely never will.HYUFD said:
If the Tories did not win Wales in 2019 with a majority of 80 they likely never willydoethur said:
Tories were close behind them this time in terms of votes and they ran them much closer than you might think in many seats in the valleys. I am still working on that thread header.HYUFD said:
Yet they still win most votes and seats, Plaid and the LDs are hapless in Wales and the Tories too entrenched in North and Mid Wales while Labour dominates the populous Southydoethur said:
Labour’s vote has risen in Wales since 2005 - from 591,000 to 632,000 - but their number of seats has fallen from 30 to 22. It’s a sign that should worry Labour that their vote is becoming grossly inefficient.Jonathan said:
All the more remarkable given the Labour vote has grown by about 2M overall in the same time.ydoethur said:
In Scotland! From 1,035,528 to 511,838.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.
But they did.
On the other hand Christchurch will always be Tory.
The LDs won Christchurch in 19930 -
Because Gypsies are Romany, a specific racial group (Indian origins I believe). Travellers are those who have adopted a similarly nomadic lifestylekle4 said:
Nothing wrong with Gypsy. Often (though not always) used distinct, as in 'Gypsies and Travellers', though I don't know enough about the communities to know why.TheScreamingEagles said:
Please, it is the Gypo Traveller King.FrancisUrquhart said:After last night, there is only one monarchy that now matters, the Gypsy King....
0 -
With an open-tied moron like Drakeford running the show anything is possible. If Plaid hadn't imploded they could have taken up the slack.ydoethur said:
Further anecdote alert.Mexicanpete said:
Anecdote alert.HYUFD said:
If the Tories did not win Wales in 2019 with a majority of 80 they likely never willydoethur said:
Tories were close behind them this time in terms of votes and they ran them much closer than you might think in many seats in the valleys. I am still working on that thread header.HYUFD said:
Yet they still win most votes and seats, Plaid and the LDs are hapless in Wales and the Tories too entrenched in North and Mid Wales while Labour dominates the populous Southydoethur said:
Labour’s vote has risen in Wales since 2005 - from 591,000 to 632,000 - but their number of seats has fallen from 30 to 22. It’s a sign that should worry Labour that their vote is becoming grossly inefficient.Jonathan said:
All the more remarkable given the Labour vote has grown by about 2M overall in the same time.ydoethur said:
In Scotland! From 1,035,528 to 511,838.Jonathan said:
How has Labours vote halved in 9 years?ydoethur said:
In nine years, Labour’s vote has halved, while the Tories have increased theirs 50% and the SNP vote has almost trebled.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't think Starmer's non answer on Trident will harm him. It hasn't harmed the SNP in Scotland - people just don't believe it's the bedrock of our security. I wonder actually if he's not thinking of trying to entice back SNP supporters actually. SNP are going through very squally times, set to get worse. It has been said that Labour cannot win except through Scotland.
Winning that back is not going to be at all easy. At the moment, it’s still going the wrong way, and even the nationwide surge in 2017 barely registered.
Brexit has brought across a number of my blue collar contacts in Port Talbot to the dark side. A number of professional people I know lent Boris their vote while Corbyn was the alternative. So yes I believe you are probably right.
All my Welsh connections are thoroughly fed up with Labour. What may actually have saved them from further embarrassment this time is that Johnson is a divisive twat.
Boris didn't put off my Brexiteer contacts, they loved him. I can't think of many Tory MPs in Wales that have as much charisma as Boris has in his little finger. They are indeed as uninspiring as Labour politicians in Wales, and as for Tory AMs are concerned, Drakeford looks almost human by contrast.0 -
Personally I am not going to question a 6ft 9in 20 stone guy, who is heavy weight champion of the world, if he perhaps should use traveller or gypsy to describe himself.....Charles said:
Because Gypsies are Romany, a specific racial group (Indian origins I believe). Travellers are those who have adopted a similarly nomadic lifestylekle4 said:
Nothing wrong with Gypsy. Often (though not always) used distinct, as in 'Gypsies and Travellers', though I don't know enough about the communities to know why.TheScreamingEagles said:
Please, it is the Gypo Traveller King.FrancisUrquhart said:After last night, there is only one monarchy that now matters, the Gypsy King....
0 -
Mods.....looks like you have a problem....spam thread has been created.0
-
Jim MurphyCasino_Royale said:
We know Ruth Davidson was hitting home due to the constant nationalist attacks on her.StuartDickson said:
So did Ruth Davidson. Bugger all use it did her.HYUFD said:
He had a net positive rating in Scotland with MoriStuartDickson said:
Please explain how SNP voters find Starmer attractive. Genuinely inquisitive, as I have never seen any Scottish Unionist commentators making this claim.HYUFD said:
Tory Leavers may prefer Nandy but will vote for Boris anyway, Tory and LD and SNP Remainers might switch though to a Starmer led LabourSandyRentool said:
It is a pity that our membership in the south don't see the need to have a leader who gets it.Gallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.0 -
Two, to be exact.FrancisUrquhart said:Mods.....looks like you have a problem....spam thread has been created.
0 -
Warren up to 19% in new poll.0
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How exciting. I have to go to Milan next week (albeit Malpensa, so nowhere near downtown Milan), having been in Shanghai in January. Perhaps I should just think of it as a form of Chinese roulette.AndreaParma_82 said:We are closing everything here in Italy because of the coronavirus
10 municipalites are locked down with police now controlling exit routes.
Cinema and theaters are ordered to close in Lombardy region. Pubs should close after 6pm
Schools and universities are closed in Lombardy, Veneto, Friuli, Piemonte and Trentino since tomorrow.
Masses have been canceled in all churches located in Lombardy starting from this evening. The same order have just been given by the bishop of Venice.
The Milan cathedral is going to be closed tomorrow2 -
An excellent header, @Casino_Royale. Thank you.
Personally I feel that Harry has turned into a whinging petulant child and it is doing him no favours. I’m all for him retiring to a private life but then he needs to stop trying to hang onto the benefits of royal life and commenting on what royal means. His latest outburst is ill-judged. A long period of silence from him would be wise.
A period of calm and competent getting on with their jobs would be welcome in our institutions.3 -
YesPulpstar said:Warren up to 19% in new poll.
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1231617051497771008?s=200 -
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Starmer has been in leadership roles. The evidence suggests that he’s a follower.Jonathan said:
Starmer is a leader. But Nandy is good too. Both are better than Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think Lisa is the only sane choice for labour and would vote for her if I had a voteGallowgate said:Just come back from seeing Lisa Nandy speak.
My review: she’s getting my vote. She gets it.
RLB is over and Starmer is not a leader0
