politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Septuagenarians continue to dominate the Democratic nomination
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Because the party hierarchy likes to set themselves against the English. If the Tories were saying lets join the EU and the Euro the SNP would be saying the Euro is a terrible idea and they need independence to save the pound.ydoethur said:
So why, with a few exceptions, does the party hierarchy not reflect this?Alistair said:According to post Euro Ref polling the average SNP voter was more likely to be a Brexiter than the average member of the Scottish public.
The SNP lost a big chunk of Brexiter voter between 2015 and 2017. I wonder if they got them back in 2019?
Also, that suggests one reason why the Tories struggled in Scotland - Brexiteers who want independence were hardly likely to vote for them!0 -
Far better just to deal with present and future reactionary dream.algarkirk said:Burgessian said:
Not sure about that. In my view Brexit and a real border between England and Scotland in the event of IndyRef would be a good platform for a unionist defence during a referendum. But the arguments about the currency and the deficit would be clinchers because of the real implications for savings and pensions. Don't really see how the Nats could win in those circumstances TBH.Theuniondivvie said:
Let me guess your conclusion: the analysis is so devastating it's not worth even considering another indy ref.Burgessian said:For those interested in the Scottish question there is a devastating analysis of the economics of independence by the BBC's economics editor Douglas Fraser on the Beeb website. There is no way Scots will vote Indy if it hurts their pensions and savings.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50822431
The key lines are here:
Five years ago, Alex Salmond and the 'yes' campaign could portray independence as requiring very little change, at least of the type that would be disruptive or threatening to people's finances.
We were reassured that the currency would remain the same, the border would be open, and Scotland and England would share regulation of finance and much else besides.
That's not so easy to argue after Brexit. The SNP's new currency is already a more complex offer: use sterling, but without any joint controls, get ready for Holyrood to create a Scottish currency, and from there, decide if it's in the country's interests to join the euro.
That's harder to sell on the doorstep, particularly one owned by a resident with a mortgage, pension and savings all in sterling.
Agree. The whole island must be either in or out of the EU, or it will be chaotic, and Britain only makes sense in a post tribal world as a single state. SNP is a reactionary dream from the past.0 -
If you suggest a law that'd stick Corbyn and McDonnell's heads on pikes then I'm all for it. I'd go for the "heads lost in ditches" vote mainly though.dr_spyn said:Emily Thornberry trying to lead a peasants' revolt?
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1207396244416585728
Unlike past bad royal adivisors, Milne and Murphy haven't yet had their heads mounted on pikes.
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SNP brexiteers correctly worked out that the remain cause was going to be trounced in England and Walesydoethur said:
So why, with a few exceptions, does the party hierarchy not reflect this?Alistair said:According to post Euro Ref polling the average SNP voter was more likely to be a Brexiter than the average member of the Scottish public.
The SNP lost a big chunk of Brexiter voter between 2015 and 2017. I wonder if they got them back in 2019?
Also, that suggests one reason why the Tories struggled in Scotland - Brexiteers who want independence were hardly likely to vote for them!0 -
I quite like both cricket and trains! is that weird or are they sworn enemies?0
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You were the one hoping that the "sainted" Nicola was going to get a 'kicking' from voters. How pissed off must you be (quite, judging by the tenor of your posts)?squareroot2 said:
You are just pissed off that the "sainted" Nicola didn't get the overwhelming mandate she thought she would get. NO referendum… suck it up.StuartDickson said:
Uncharacteristically nasty post for you.Philip_Thompson said:
What a shame you voted to stay in the U.K. which voted to leave the EU. Screwed the pooch with that one didn't you? You should have voted to leave when you had the chance.StuartDickson said:
Brexit is the reactionary dream.algarkirk said:Burgessian said:
Not sure about that. In my view Brexit and a real border between England and Scotland in the event of IndyRef would be a good platform for a unionist defence during a referendum. But the arguments about the currency and the deficit would be clinchers because of the real implications for savings and pensions. Don't really see how the Nats could win in those circumstances TBH.Theuniondivvie said:
Let me guess your conclusion: the analysis is so devastating it's not worth even considering another indy ref.Burgessian said:For those interested in the Scottish question there is a devastating analysis of the economics of independence by the BBC's economics editor Douglas Fraser on the Beeb website. There is no way Scots will vote Indy if it hurts their pensions and savings.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50822431
The key lines are here:
Five years ago, Alex Salmond and the 'yes' campaign could portray independence as requiring very little change, at least of the type that would be disruptive or threatening to people's finances.
We were reassured that the currency would remain the same, the border would be open, and Scotland and England would share regulation of finance and much else besides.
That's not so easy to argue after Brexit. The SNP's new currency is already a more complex offer: use sterling, but without any joint controls, get ready for Holyrood to create a Scottish currency, and from there, decide if it's in the country's interests to join the euro.
That's harder to sell on the doorstep, particularly one owned by a resident with a mortgage, pension and savings all in sterling.
Agree. The whole island must be either in or out of the EU, or it will be chaotic, and Britain only makes sense in a post tribal world as a single state. SNP is a reactionary dream from the past.
I thought that victory might soften the edges, but Brexit really has brought out the very worst in people. The atmosphere is toxic. Reminds me of the 1980s.0 -
Much the same.state_go_away said:I quite like both cricket and trains! is that weird or are they sworn enemies?
A double coming-out though is quite an event! Is there a party planned?0 -
That's superficially true, but I think you can make a case for a "European Scottish Independence" or for a "my union is better than your union British independence", even though I wouldn't as I'm currently in favour of all the unions all the time.ydoethur said:On a serious point, almost every argument for Scottish independence is also an argument for Britain to leave the EU. Let’s take control of our destiny and not have greedy foreigners who don’t get us doing it - check. We can join with other, bigger markets and sell into them - check. We need to sort out our own finances and being wrapped in this comfort blanket masks our problems - check. We’re a proud nation with a long history and should stand on our own feet - check. There might be some economic damage, but it’s not as bad as people say it will be - check.
Similarly, of course, the arguments against can be readily compared. Let’s not cut off our biggest market. The disruption won’t be worth it. The economics doesn’t stack up. Small nations need to be in big trading blocks to make themselves count these days.
About the only really significant difference is over currency. Which is hardly the most vital of questions, to be honest. If Montenegro could get round it, I’m sure Scotland could manage somehow.
It has therefore always baffled me how great a correlation there is between Eurosceptics and Unionists, and between ScotNats and Europhiles (yes, I know there are exceptions including several on this board). The inconsistency of their arguments is beyond daft.
Ultimately I think what both groups in both arguments are trying to hide is that these are marginal decisions. Neither the UK nor Scotland will face Armageddon should they leave the EU or UK, and equally neither will find it’s actually a solution to the problems they face (as Ireland found it was not). So there is an overwhelming tendency to exaggerate, divide, obfuscate and conceal even from themselves the reality of the situation.
The case for a European Scottish Independence is that the quasi-federal/intergovernmental nature of the European Union gives more power to small nations of the EU than small parts of the UK have. The last few years make a convincing case for Ireland having more influence as a smaller part of the EU than Scotland has as a relatively larger part of the UK.
The case for a superior British Union might reference ideas about the Common Law legal system compared to the Napoleonic Code, language, history, population transfers, etc.1 -
Ancient history was never my strong point, but wasn't the 2016 referendum question about whether or not the UK should leave the EU, and not whether Scotland should or should not leave the EU?Alistair said:
According to post Euro Ref polling the average SNP voter was more likely to be a Brexiter than the average member of the Scottish public.
The SNP lost a big chunk of Brexiter voter between 2015 and 2017. I wonder if they got them back in 2019?0 -
She did. She thought she was going to be kingmaker with enough MPs to extract a referendum from Corbyn. She failed to do so.Theuniondivvie said:
You were the one hoping that the "sainted" Nicola was going to get a 'kicking' from voters. How pissed off must you be (quite, judging by the tenor of your posts)?squareroot2 said:You are just pissed off that the "sainted" Nicola didn't get the overwhelming mandate she thought she would get. NO referendum… suck it up.
That failure mostly rests on Corbyn's shoulders but she chose to tie her cart to his horse so she failed by proxy.
Its funny seeing SNP supporters on here acting as if their side won rather than lost the UK's General Election.0 -
+1Philip_Thompson said:
Because the party hierarchy likes to set themselves against the English. If the Tories were saying lets join the EU and the Euro the SNP would be saying the Euro is a terrible idea and they need independence to save the pound.ydoethur said:
So why, with a few exceptions, does the party hierarchy not reflect this?Alistair said:According to post Euro Ref polling the average SNP voter was more likely to be a Brexiter than the average member of the Scottish public.
The SNP lost a big chunk of Brexiter voter between 2015 and 2017. I wonder if they got them back in 2019?
Also, that suggests one reason why the Tories struggled in Scotland - Brexiteers who want independence were hardly likely to vote for them!1 -
Agreed. She'd hoped to have the leverage to extract another referendum from Labour but failed. The only way that she can get that is for Labour to be in power but in order for that to happen they to start winning significant numbers of seats in Scotland again.Philip_Thompson said:
She did. She thought she was going to be kingmaker with enough MPs to extract a referendum from Corbyn. She failed to do so.Theuniondivvie said:
You were the one hoping that the "sainted" Nicola was going to get a 'kicking' from voters. How pissed off must you be (quite, judging by the tenor of your posts)?squareroot2 said:You are just pissed off that the "sainted" Nicola didn't get the overwhelming mandate she thought she would get. NO referendum… suck it up.
That failure mostly rests on Corbyn's shoulders but she chose to tie her cart to his horse so she failed by proxy.
Its funny seeing SNP supporters on here acting as if their side won rather than lost the UK's General Election.
There's nothing that she can do if Boris just keeps saying no to another referendum. Constitutionally it's the power of his government and not her government. Over the course of a few elections (local and SP) the tories may start to suffer in Scotland but they could also unite the unionist vote. (especially as SLab are still a mess).1 -
£ now lower than when Bozo got elected.0
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Sunil I used to like you...Sunil_Prasannan said:
At least the train moves, unlike almost all the cricket playersnichomar said:
Says someone who finds obscure train journeys exciting!Sunil_Prasannan said:
Do they call it "test" cricket because it "tests" your patience?ydoethur said:
I agree. How could anyone watch cricket and not be riveted?TheGreenMachine said:Alanbrooke said:
cricket isn't a sport its a sleeping pill substiuteTheGreenMachine said:SandyRentool said:Another day, another gang of child sex abusers in a Yorkshire town:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-50838823
Personally, I find cricket and F1 boring but Lewis Hamilton should win the 2020 title and if he does, perhaps the spoty.Alanbrooke said:
you should try hurlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Soccer, cricket, F1, and rugby union are the only sports worth watching.Alanbrooke said:
One nation ConservatismTheScreamingEagles said:
Why are we talking about pub game on PB?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Saw a clip of that on Sky earlier. What a reaction! Good for Fallon.contrarian said:Anybody watch the darts last night?
how could so many working class male bigots have roared a young woman on to breaking a glass ceiling?
They also got Phil 'The Power' Taylor on, and he was very fulsome in his praise for her, and what a positive move forward this was for the game.
you've got at least 10 more years of it so better adapt.
If the Tories really want to hold places like Rother Valley then they should talk non stop about rugby union.
I don't disagree or dislike hurling but it's definitely a physical and tough (rough) sport.
Astounding statistic.Richard_Tyndall said:
Looking through the wiki pages, there are now 17 counties with only Conservative MPs.RobD said:
Wikipedia has some helpful charts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Parliamentary_constituencies_in_Staffordshireydoethur said:I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
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ET talking to the Minister for Tory Propoganda that's her crossed off thendr_spyn said:Emily Thornberry trying to lead a peasants' revolt?
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1207396244416585728
Unlike past bad royal adivisors, Milne and Murphy haven't yet had their heads mounted on pikes.0 -
What world event has depressed it?IanB2 said:£ now lower than when Bozo got elected.
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Stop me if I'm getting a bit #metoo, but have we just lost the two best looking Parliamentarians in Mel Onn and Heidi Allen?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:0 -
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They all had goatees in that timeline, didn't they?viewcode said:1 -
Let's not dress up managing to keep 6 MP's North of the border as some sort of win. It's a crumb of comfort that a total tsunami was avoided. Other than that I'd say game to Sturgeon, Boris to serve.Philip_Thompson said:
She did. She thought she was going to be kingmaker with enough MPs to extract a referendum from Corbyn. She failed to do so.Theuniondivvie said:
You were the one hoping that the "sainted" Nicola was going to get a 'kicking' from voters. How pissed off must you be (quite, judging by the tenor of your posts)?squareroot2 said:You are just pissed off that the "sainted" Nicola didn't get the overwhelming mandate she thought she would get. NO referendum… suck it up.
That failure mostly rests on Corbyn's shoulders but she chose to tie her cart to his horse so she failed by proxy.
Its funny seeing SNP supporters on here acting as if their side won rather than lost the UK's General Election.1 -
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Game, Set and Match Boris. He has the UK majority and Sturgeon needs a UK majority to support what she wants.Luckyguy1983 said:
Let's not dress up managing to keep 6 MP's North of the border as some sort of win. It's a crumb of comfort that a total tsunami was avoided. Other than that I'd say game to Sturgeon, Boris to serve.Philip_Thompson said:
She did. She thought she was going to be kingmaker with enough MPs to extract a referendum from Corbyn. She failed to do so.Theuniondivvie said:
You were the one hoping that the "sainted" Nicola was going to get a 'kicking' from voters. How pissed off must you be (quite, judging by the tenor of your posts)?squareroot2 said:You are just pissed off that the "sainted" Nicola didn't get the overwhelming mandate she thought she would get. NO referendum… suck it up.
That failure mostly rests on Corbyn's shoulders but she chose to tie her cart to his horse so she failed by proxy.
Its funny seeing SNP supporters on here acting as if their side won rather than lost the UK's General Election.
The only way Sturgeon gets a second Indyref any time soon is if she convinces Boris its in his interest to let her have it. So how's she going to do that now?0 -
Sad days for the PB.com dads.Drutt said:
Stop me if I'm getting a bit #metoo, but have we just lost the two best looking Parliamentarians in Mel Onn and Heidi Allen?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Meanwhile, Keir Starmer's tilt at the leadership provides lots of silver fox action for the ladies.0 -
Indeed. The decision whether to hold a vote in the first place belongs to the General Populations UK Parliament which has a Tory majority and voters to that one overwhelmingly think there should not be another vote.Alistair said:
How are you going to square that circle?1 -
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BridgenMexicanpete said:
Who? Brom or Bridgen?Sunil_Prasannan said:
At least he's against the TV poll tax (he's on C4 News right now).Mexicanpete said:
Whatever floats your boat.Brom said:Just got a selfie with Andrew Bridgen. Can the last 7 days get any better?!!!
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Boris, and the UK as a whole, will have won, when the overwhelming majority of Scottish people reject the notion of leaving the UK as not just a bad idea but as a totally redundant one - the answer to a question that only the odd crank would ever ask. Having the legal ability to prevent a second referendum is not the same.Philip_Thompson said:
Game, Set and Match Boris. He has the UK majority and Sturgeon needs a UK majority to support what she wants.Luckyguy1983 said:
Let's not dress up managing to keep 6 MP's North of the border as some sort of win. It's a crumb of comfort that a total tsunami was avoided. Other than that I'd say game to Sturgeon, Boris to serve.Philip_Thompson said:
She did. She thought she was going to be kingmaker with enough MPs to extract a referendum from Corbyn. She failed to do so.Theuniondivvie said:
You were the one hoping that the "sainted" Nicola was going to get a 'kicking' from voters. How pissed off must you be (quite, judging by the tenor of your posts)?squareroot2 said:You are just pissed off that the "sainted" Nicola didn't get the overwhelming mandate she thought she would get. NO referendum… suck it up.
That failure mostly rests on Corbyn's shoulders but she chose to tie her cart to his horse so she failed by proxy.
Its funny seeing SNP supporters on here acting as if their side won rather than lost the UK's General Election.
The only way Sturgeon gets a second Indyref any time soon is if she convinces Boris its in his interest to let her have it. So how's she going to do that now?1 -
Hmm. 7 Scottish seats traded for a big chunk of the Labour Red Wall and a majority of 80 you say?Theuniondivvie said:
You were the one hoping that the "sainted" Nicola was going to get a 'kicking' from voters. How pissed off must you be (quite, judging by the tenor of your posts)?squareroot2 said:You are just pissed off that the "sainted" Nicola didn't get the overwhelming mandate she thought she would get. NO referendum… suck it up.
Give us a while and we'll get back to you on that trade.....1 -
4 pico seconds later...
Yeah OK, we'll take it.1 -
That's not going to happen. In the meantime Boris claims the mandate to reject another referendum "for a generation" and has the numbers to do so. Sturgeon's side lost the 2019 elections - better luck next time.Luckyguy1983 said:
Boris, and the UK as a whole, will have won, when the overwhelming majority of Scottish people reject the notion of leaving the UK as not just a bad idea but as a totally redundant one - the answer to a question that only the odd crank would ever ask. Having the legal ability to prevent a second referendum is not the same.Philip_Thompson said:
Game, Set and Match Boris. He has the UK majority and Sturgeon needs a UK majority to support what she wants.Luckyguy1983 said:
Let's not dress up managing to keep 6 MP's North of the border as some sort of win. It's a crumb of comfort that a total tsunami was avoided. Other than that I'd say game to Sturgeon, Boris to serve.Philip_Thompson said:
She did. She thought she was going to be kingmaker with enough MPs to extract a referendum from Corbyn. She failed to do so.Theuniondivvie said:
You were the one hoping that the "sainted" Nicola was going to get a 'kicking' from voters. How pissed off must you be (quite, judging by the tenor of your posts)?squareroot2 said:You are just pissed off that the "sainted" Nicola didn't get the overwhelming mandate she thought she would get. NO referendum… suck it up.
That failure mostly rests on Corbyn's shoulders but she chose to tie her cart to his horse so she failed by proxy.
Its funny seeing SNP supporters on here acting as if their side won rather than lost the UK's General Election.
The only way Sturgeon gets a second Indyref any time soon is if she convinces Boris its in his interest to let her have it. So how's she going to do that now?
Look on the bright side: Next time it will be closer to a generation.0 -
Slow on here again. Have all the socialists emigrated to Venezuela or are they just dug in for the moment0
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What, an independent Scotland?Theuniondivvie said:
Far better just to deal with present and future reactionary dream.algarkirk said:Burgessian said:
Not sure about that. In my view Brexit and a real border between England and Scotland in the event of IndyRef would be a good platform for a unionist defence during a referendum. But the arguments about the currency and the deficit would be clinchers because of the real implications for savings and pensions. Don't really see how the Nats could win in those circumstances TBH.Theuniondivvie said:
Let me guess your conclusion: the analysis is so devastating it's not worth even considering another indy ref.Burgessian said:For those interested in the Scottish question there is a devastating analysis of the economics of independence by the BBC's economics editor Douglas Fraser on the Beeb website. There is no way Scots will vote Indy if it hurts their pensions and savings.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50822431
The key lines are here:
Five years ago, Alex Salmond and the 'yes' campaign could portray independence as requiring very little change, at least of the type that would be disruptive or threatening to people's finances.
We were reassured that the currency would remain the same, the border would be open, and Scotland and England would share regulation of finance and much else besides.
That's not so easy to argue after Brexit. The SNP's new currency is already a more complex offer: use sterling, but without any joint controls, get ready for Holyrood to create a Scottish currency, and from there, decide if it's in the country's interests to join the euro.
That's harder to sell on the doorstep, particularly one owned by a resident with a mortgage, pension and savings all in sterling.
Agree. The whole island must be either in or out of the EU, or it will be chaotic, and Britain only makes sense in a post tribal world as a single state. SNP is a reactionary dream from the past.0 -
It’s also worth noting Scots themselves are split straight down the middle too.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. The decision whether to hold a vote in the first place belongs to the General Populations UK Parliament which has a Tory majority and voters to that one overwhelmingly think there should not be another vote.Alistair said:
How are you going to square that circle?0 -
..0
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About Lady Hale's statements, I think a UK written constitution on the lines of the US constitution is a good idea.
A strong separation of powers in a strong federation will kill both the ability of biased judges to make their own laws, and kill the SNP since it would make secession illegal and give regions equal representation in a senate.0 -
We're all Tories now, Comrade.alterego said:Slow on here again. Have all the socialists emigrated to Venezuela or are they just dug in for the moment
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They’re expert harvesters of grievance.Philip_Thompson said:
Because the party hierarchy likes to set themselves against the English. If the Tories were saying lets join the EU and the Euro the SNP would be saying the Euro is a terrible idea and they need independence to save the pound.ydoethur said:
So why, with a few exceptions, does the party hierarchy not reflect this?Alistair said:According to post Euro Ref polling the average SNP voter was more likely to be a Brexiter than the average member of the Scottish public.
The SNP lost a big chunk of Brexiter voter between 2015 and 2017. I wonder if they got them back in 2019?
Also, that suggests one reason why the Tories struggled in Scotland - Brexiteers who want independence were hardly likely to vote for them!
You only have to look at the sparkling personalities of some of the regulars on here to see how that manifests itself.0 -
Starmer keeps flying in and out like a yo-yo.
He’s gone out to 4.1 and back in to 3.3 in the last 20 minutes, before stabilising at around 3.7.
Edgy market.0 -
I believe the expression now is Bro'MarqueeMark said:
We're all Tories now, Comrade.alterego said:Slow on here again. Have all the socialists emigrated to Venezuela or are they just dug in for the moment
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On the contrary, it is inevitable.Philip_Thompson said:
That's not going to happen. In the meantime Boris claims the mandate to reject another referendum "for a generation" and has the numbers to do so. Sturgeon's side lost the 2019 elections - better luck next time.Luckyguy1983 said:
Boris, and the UK as a whole, will have won, when the overwhelming majority of Scottish people reject the notion of leaving the UK as not just a bad idea but as a totally redundant one - the answer to a question that only the odd crank would ever ask. Having the legal ability to prevent a second referendum is not the same.Philip_Thompson said:
Game, Set and Match Boris. He has the UK majority and Sturgeon needs a UK majority to support what she wants.Luckyguy1983 said:
Let's not dress up managing to keep 6 MP's North of the border as some sort of win. It's a crumb of comfort that a total tsunami was avoided. Other than that I'd say game to Sturgeon, Boris to serve.Philip_Thompson said:
She did. She thought she was going to be kingmaker with enough MPs to extract a referendum from Corbyn. She failed to do so.Theuniondivvie said:
You were the one hoping that the "sainted" Nicola was going to get a 'kicking' from voters. How pissed off must you be (quite, judging by the tenor of your posts)?squareroot2 said:You are just pissed off that the "sainted" Nicola didn't get the overwhelming mandate she thought she would get. NO referendum… suck it up.
That failure mostly rests on Corbyn's shoulders but she chose to tie her cart to his horse so she failed by proxy.
Its funny seeing SNP supporters on here acting as if their side won rather than lost the UK's General Election.
The only way Sturgeon gets a second Indyref any time soon is if she convinces Boris its in his interest to let her have it. So how's she going to do that now?
Look on the bright side: Next time it will be closer to a generation.0 -
It hasn't yet. Time for Boris to pivot to the other letter to save the country and his legacy.Omnium said:
Apart from it actually happening.StuartDickson said:
Brexit is the reactionary dream.algarkirk said:Burgessian said:
Not sure about that. In my view Brexit and a real border between England and Scotland in the event of IndyRef would be a good platform for a unionist defence during a referendum. But the arguments about the currency and the deficit would be clinchers because of the real implications for savings and pensions. Don't really see how the Nats could win in those circumstances TBH.Theuniondivvie said:
Let me guess your conclusion: the analysis is so devastating it's not worth even considering another indy ref.Burgessian said:For those interested in the Scottish question there is a devastating analysis of the economics of independence by the BBC's economics editor Douglas Fraser on the Beeb website. There is no way Scots will vote Indy if it hurts their pensions and savings.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50822431
The key lines are here:
Five years ago, Alex Salmond and the 'yes' campaign could portray independence as requiring very little change, at least of the type that would be disruptive or threatening to people's finances.
We were reassured that the currency would remain the same, the border would be open, and Scotland and England would share regulation of finance and much else besides.
That's not so easy to argue after Brexit. The SNP's new currency is already a more complex offer: use sterling, but without any joint controls, get ready for Holyrood to create a Scottish currency, and from there, decide if it's in the country's interests to join the euro.
That's harder to sell on the doorstep, particularly one owned by a resident with a mortgage, pension and savings all in sterling.
Agree. The whole island must be either in or out of the EU, or it will be chaotic, and Britain only makes sense in a post tribal world as a single state. SNP is a reactionary dream from the past.0 -
It's mostly just a bunch of Tories wanking each other off on here these days. If I'd wanted to see that I'd have gone to Oxford.alterego said:Slow on here again. Have all the socialists emigrated to Venezuela or are they just dug in for the moment
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I'd rather have RLB but he'll do. In fact I can't think of anyone who wouldn'tCasino_Royale said:Starmer keeps flying in and out like a yo-yo.
He’s gone out to 4.1 and back in to 3.3 in the last 20 minutes, before stabilising at around 3.7.
Edgy market.0 -
That was the bargain the Devil required for getting rid of Williamson. Best I could negotiate. Soz.Drutt said:
Stop me if I'm getting a bit #metoo, but have we just lost the two best looking Parliamentarians in Mel Onn and Heidi Allen?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:1 -
Indeed. That's why no Indyref2 seems like an inevitable win/win given the UK election result.Casino_Royale said:
They’re expert harvesters of grievance.Philip_Thompson said:
Because the party hierarchy likes to set themselves against the English. If the Tories were saying lets join the EU and the Euro the SNP would be saying the Euro is a terrible idea and they need independence to save the pound.ydoethur said:
So why, with a few exceptions, does the party hierarchy not reflect this?Alistair said:According to post Euro Ref polling the average SNP voter was more likely to be a Brexiter than the average member of the Scottish public.
The SNP lost a big chunk of Brexiter voter between 2015 and 2017. I wonder if they got them back in 2019?
Also, that suggests one reason why the Tories struggled in Scotland - Brexiteers who want independence were hardly likely to vote for them!
You only have to look at the sparkling personalities of some of the regulars on here to see how that manifests itself.
Tories win by not having an Indyref and its aftermath dominate politics in the next few years.
SNP win by having something to whine over for years to come.0 -
God knows. Given that, unlike in many formal federations, the Union is understood and accepted not to be indissoluble, the politicians then have to balance the right of malcontent states to contemplate secession against the right of the remaining members to fair treatment.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. The decision whether to hold a vote in the first place belongs to the General Populations UK Parliament which has a Tory majority and voters to that one overwhelmingly think there should not be another vote.Alistair said:
How are you going to square that circle?
On the one hand, Scotland keeps voting in nationalist Governments that then lobby for independence. On the other hand, it expects equitable treatment from the remainder of the UK in terms of its right to transfer payments and a fair share of central Government largesse in other respects - notably the fact that many UK-wide administrative functions are based in Scotland. In fact, the total number of UK Government civil servants based in Scotland exceeds the complement of the entire devolved administration. This is a risk to the rest of the country in terms of the need to onshore all of these functions in the event of secession.
Now, if the Scottish Government keeps threatening to secede all the time then how best should the rest of the country respond to the instability that this creates? Should the UK let Scotland have as many votes as it wants on independence? Should it declare a moratorium after each unsuccessful vote for, say, 20 or 30 years? Should it adopt the position of a Germany or a Spain and legislate to make the Union indissoluble? Or should it conclude that the ongoing uncertainty can only be resolved through dissolution and invite Scotland to go?0 -
To know that you must be watching - peeping TomOnlyLivingBoy said:
It's mostly just a bunch of Tories wanking each other off on here these days. If I'd wanted to see that I'd have gone to Oxford.alterego said:Slow on here again. Have all the socialists emigrated to Venezuela or are they just dug in for the moment
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Plotting our revival. It's going well.alterego said:Slow on here again. Have all the socialists emigrated to Venezuela or are they just dug in for the moment
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Couldn't you have gotten him to take Abbott with Williamson though?MarqueeMark said:
That was the bargain the Devil required for getting rid of Williamson. Best I could negotiate. Soz.Drutt said:
Stop me if I'm getting a bit #metoo, but have we just lost the two best looking Parliamentarians in Mel Onn and Heidi Allen?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:0 -
Er... no. We’re not blind.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Sad days for the PB.com dads.Drutt said:
Stop me if I'm getting a bit #metoo, but have we just lost the two best looking Parliamentarians in Mel Onn and Heidi Allen?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Meanwhile, Keir Starmer's tilt at the leadership provides lots of silver fox action for the ladies.
1 -
And to think, how much we watched six weeks of Labour bots fellating Jeremy on here, with such joy in our hearts.....OnlyLivingBoy said:
It's mostly just a bunch of Tories wanking each other off on here these days. If I'd wanted to see that I'd have gone to Oxford.alterego said:Slow on here again. Have all the socialists emigrated to Venezuela or are they just dug in for the moment
2 -
Is @williamglenn still here? I've not seen him post-election, has he opined yet why the election result is good news for Remain?
Must be bittersweet for him, about to win a grand off Bryonic SeanT but has seen his hopes of Remain evaporate.2 -
C'mon, Abbott's a hootPhilip_Thompson said:
Couldn't you have gotten him to take Abbott with Williamson though?MarqueeMark said:
That was the bargain the Devil required for getting rid of Williamson. Best I could negotiate. Soz.Drutt said:
Stop me if I'm getting a bit #metoo, but have we just lost the two best looking Parliamentarians in Mel Onn and Heidi Allen?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:0 -
I think it was the men he was talking about. Oh sorry, wrong poster.Cyclefree said:
Er... no. We’re not blind.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Sad days for the PB.com dads.Drutt said:
Stop me if I'm getting a bit #metoo, but have we just lost the two best looking Parliamentarians in Mel Onn and Heidi Allen?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Meanwhile, Keir Starmer's tilt at the leadership provides lots of silver fox action for the ladies.0 -
Pidders has risen!
https://medium.com/@laura.pidcock.mp/letter-to-the-people-i-represented-406aea893243
TL/DR: Definitely not Jezza's fault.0 -
Whether from the new intake or old, any particular candy for you?Cyclefree said:
Er... no. We’re not blind.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Sad days for the PB.com dads.Drutt said:
Stop me if I'm getting a bit #metoo, but have we just lost the two best looking Parliamentarians in Mel Onn and Heidi Allen?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Meanwhile, Keir Starmer's tilt at the leadership provides lots of silver fox action for the ladies.0 -
It isn't just that. It's also that the long term 'plan' is to be an EU client state. 'Independence' is somewhat of a misnomer - it's separation from England. Scotland could be as dependent as on pretty much anyone else after that for all anyone in the SNP cares. Jim Sillars represents the wing that was after 'true' independence (as well as wanting to stick it to England - that's a constantCasino_Royale said:
They’re expert harvesters of grievance.Philip_Thompson said:
Because the party hierarchy likes to set themselves against the English. If the Tories were saying lets join the EU and the Euro the SNP would be saying the Euro is a terrible idea and they need independence to save the pound.ydoethur said:
So why, with a few exceptions, does the party hierarchy not reflect this?Alistair said:According to post Euro Ref polling the average SNP voter was more likely to be a Brexiter than the average member of the Scottish public.
The SNP lost a big chunk of Brexiter voter between 2015 and 2017. I wonder if they got them back in 2019?
Also, that suggests one reason why the Tories struggled in Scotland - Brexiteers who want independence were hardly likely to vote for them!
You only have to look at the sparkling personalities of some of the regulars on here to see how that manifests itself.
), but his views seem a quaint period piece now. 0 -
Brexiteers have more in common with ScotNats than either would care to admit.0
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Okie dokie, I've rebacked stammer entirely now, all green again.Casino_Royale said:Starmer keeps flying in and out like a yo-yo.
He’s gone out to 4.1 and back in to 3.3 in the last 20 minutes, before stabilising at around 3.7.
Edgy market.0 -
Leave it out.... Brexiteers won their referendum.Jonathan said:Brexiteers have more in common with ScotNats than either would care to admit.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7805789/Police-arrest-sixteen-men-historic-sexual-exploitation-three-teenage-girls-Halifax.html
A policeman......
I believe there were allegations about another pc in was it Rotherham?0 -
The ramping got beyond a joke.MarqueeMark said:
And to think, how much we watched six weeks of Labour bots fellating Jeremy on here, with such joy in our hearts.....OnlyLivingBoy said:
It's mostly just a bunch of Tories wanking each other off on here these days. If I'd wanted to see that I'd have gone to Oxford.alterego said:Slow on here again. Have all the socialists emigrated to Venezuela or are they just dug in for the moment
Isn't it rather sickening too to see some posters who denied any problems with the Corbyn project now completely changing their minds - apparently they hated him too, they were just prepared to have that vile sickness in power as it wore their team colours0 -
The impeachment hearings have the air of the shenanigans in parliament pre-election.
I don’t want them to help Trump but I think they will. Just as Grieve, Soubry et al played into Boris’ hand so are the Democrats with Trump.0 -
Bloody hell. Has the BBC literally lost its mind? In the very week Johnson announces a review of funding/licence etc etc, the BBC chooses to drop News at 10pm for a half hour of 'You are hired' follow-on fluff from the Apprentice.
Insane.
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There is a lot in common, absolutely. And there are things that are different. So many Scotnats have related formative experiences of feeling mortified by snobbish or overbearing English people. There is a background of anger and hurt, and real and imagined slights there that doesn't have a parallel in UK/Europe relations.Jonathan said:Brexiteers have more in common with ScotNats than either would care to admit.
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He threw Dent Coad in. For the lolz.Philip_Thompson said:
Couldn't you have gotten him to take Abbott with Williamson though?MarqueeMark said:
That was the bargain the Devil required for getting rid of Williamson. Best I could negotiate. Soz.Drutt said:
Stop me if I'm getting a bit #metoo, but have we just lost the two best looking Parliamentarians in Mel Onn and Heidi Allen?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:1 -
TL;DR It was the media and establishment's fault.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Pidders has risen!
https://medium.com/@laura.pidcock.mp/letter-to-the-people-i-represented-406aea893243
TL/DR: Definitely not Jezza's fault.1 -
The only difference between Brexiteers and SNats is one won their referendum and the other lost theirs.Jonathan said:Brexiteers have more in common with ScotNats than either would care to admit.
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She'll be back. Somewhere.Philip_Thompson said:
TL;DR It was the media and establishment's fault.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Pidders has risen!
https://medium.com/@laura.pidcock.mp/letter-to-the-people-i-represented-406aea893243
TL/DR: Definitely not Jezza's fault.0 -
Also those pesky voters, for not believing the moonbeams and free unicorns policies.Philip_Thompson said:
TL;DR It was the media and establishment's fault.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Pidders has risen!
https://medium.com/@laura.pidcock.mp/letter-to-the-people-i-represented-406aea893243
TL/DR: Definitely not Jezza's fault.
But not Jezza.0 -
Boris might be a fan of the Apprentice.rottenborough said:Bloody hell. Has the BBC literally lost its mind? In the very week Johnson announces a review of funding/licence etc etc, the BBC chooses to drop News at 10pm for a half hour of 'You are hired' follow-on fluff from the Apprentice.
Insane.
0 -
Who was it posting queues of students at London polling stations every five minutes accompanied by “I’m not saying it means anything... but if I were a Tory I’d be worried.”Floater said:
The ramping got beyond a joke.MarqueeMark said:
And to think, how much we watched six weeks of Labour bots fellating Jeremy on here, with such joy in our hearts.....OnlyLivingBoy said:
It's mostly just a bunch of Tories wanking each other off on here these days. If I'd wanted to see that I'd have gone to Oxford.alterego said:Slow on here again. Have all the socialists emigrated to Venezuela or are they just dug in for the moment
Isn't it rather sickening too to see some posters who denied any problems with the Corbyn project now completely changing their minds - apparently they hated him too, they were just prepared to have that vile sickness in power as it wore their team colours
Kinabalu? Horse Battery?0 -
Stories like this keep popping up but then mostly seem to disappear from the media. It's not just an issue of punishing criminals but prevention. Warboys is a perfect example of a wet judicial system having to be held to account by victims - I daresay Starmer would approve of the process.Floater said:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7805789/Police-arrest-sixteen-men-historic-sexual-exploitation-three-teenage-girls-Halifax.html
A policeman......
I believe there were allegations about another pc in was it Rotherham?0 -
Some of the ideas are err - well I'm in favour of workers right but....AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Pidders has risen!
https://medium.com/@laura.pidcock.mp/letter-to-the-people-i-represented-406aea893243
TL/DR: Definitely not Jezza's fault.
Ministry of workers rights o_O1 -
Britain First are scum.rottenborough said:3 -
The only way Jezza could have had a lower chance of becoming PM would have been if he'd gone to Cambridge...OnlyLivingBoy said:
It's mostly just a bunch of Tories wanking each other off on here these days. If I'd wanted to see that I'd have gone to Oxford.alterego said:Slow on here again. Have all the socialists emigrated to Venezuela or are they just dug in for the moment
0 -
-1
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Despite the fact it was forecast to rain heavily later in the day. You can include the constant posting of the registration figures too. I doubt we'll be seeing that next time either.isam said:
Who was it posting queues of students at London polling stations every five minutes accompanied by “I’m not saying it means anything... but if I were a Tory I’d be worried.”Floater said:
The ramping got beyond a joke.MarqueeMark said:
And to think, how much we watched six weeks of Labour bots fellating Jeremy on here, with such joy in our hearts.....OnlyLivingBoy said:
It's mostly just a bunch of Tories wanking each other off on here these days. If I'd wanted to see that I'd have gone to Oxford.alterego said:Slow on here again. Have all the socialists emigrated to Venezuela or are they just dug in for the moment
Isn't it rather sickening too to see some posters who denied any problems with the Corbyn project now completely changing their minds - apparently they hated him too, they were just prepared to have that vile sickness in power as it wore their team colours
Kinabalu? Horse Battery?0 -
Have not seen enough to judge.Philip_Thompson said:
Whether from the new intake or old, any particular candy for you?Cyclefree said:
Er... no. We’re not blind.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Sad days for the PB.com dads.Drutt said:
Stop me if I'm getting a bit #metoo, but have we just lost the two best looking Parliamentarians in Mel Onn and Heidi Allen?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Meanwhile, Keir Starmer's tilt at the leadership provides lots of silver fox action for the ladies.0 -
Becky Bibbly-Bobbly declared her candidacy yet?0
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It were MysticRose! Doubt we’ll hear much more from her. The Apocalypse is back coincidentallyRobD said:
Despite the fact it was forecast to rain heavily later in the day. You can include the constant posting of the registration figures too. I doubt we'll be seeing that next time either.isam said:
Who was it posting queues of students at London polling stations every five minutes accompanied by “I’m not saying it means anything... but if I were a Tory I’d be worried.”Floater said:
The ramping got beyond a joke.MarqueeMark said:
And to think, how much we watched six weeks of Labour bots fellating Jeremy on here, with such joy in our hearts.....OnlyLivingBoy said:
It's mostly just a bunch of Tories wanking each other off on here these days. If I'd wanted to see that I'd have gone to Oxford.alterego said:Slow on here again. Have all the socialists emigrated to Venezuela or are they just dug in for the moment
Isn't it rather sickening too to see some posters who denied any problems with the Corbyn project now completely changing their minds - apparently they hated him too, they were just prepared to have that vile sickness in power as it wore their team colours
Kinabalu? Horse Battery?
0 -
And there's Burgon of course..AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Sad days for the PB.com dads.Drutt said:
Stop me if I'm getting a bit #metoo, but have we just lost the two best looking Parliamentarians in Mel Onn and Heidi Allen?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Meanwhile, Keir Starmer's tilt at the leadership provides lots of silver fox action for the ladies.0 -
Labour will never win (as in gain a majority) ever gain. This is much worse than what the tories faced in 1997.kle4 said:
It can be overcome!RobD said:
Millions of new voters now have the blue taint.Pulpstar said:I think Labour's combined leadership and EU position has done something which has been a long running issue for the Tories.
It's (For electoral purposes) expunged the ghost of Thatcher in England's old coalfields. Seismic.
I think.0 -
One commentator said that Labour would do better painting a smiley face on a plank of wood than with Burgon.Theuniondivvie said:
And there's Burgon of course..AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Sad days for the PB.com dads.Drutt said:
Stop me if I'm getting a bit #metoo, but have we just lost the two best looking Parliamentarians in Mel Onn and Heidi Allen?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Meanwhile, Keir Starmer's tilt at the leadership provides lots of silver fox action for the ladies.2 -
Come on Leicester!dr_spyn said:City v United.
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1207424022629289984-1 -
Jesus wept. A face only a mother could love.Theuniondivvie said:
And there's Burgon of course..AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Sad days for the PB.com dads.Drutt said:
Stop me if I'm getting a bit #metoo, but have we just lost the two best looking Parliamentarians in Mel Onn and Heidi Allen?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Meanwhile, Keir Starmer's tilt at the leadership provides lots of silver fox action for the ladies.0 -
New thread.0
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Registration figures are my penultimate perennial favourite, after the importance of "tactical voting". Every time "this time is different" due to tactical voting, because "don't you realise the Tories are hated" - by people who have hated the Tories every time.RobD said:
Despite the fact it was forecast to rain heavily later in the day. You can include the constant posting of the registration figures too. I doubt we'll be seeing that next time either.isam said:
Who was it posting queues of students at London polling stations every five minutes accompanied by “I’m not saying it means anything... but if I were a Tory I’d be worried.”Floater said:
The ramping got beyond a joke.MarqueeMark said:
And to think, how much we watched six weeks of Labour bots fellating Jeremy on here, with such joy in our hearts.....OnlyLivingBoy said:
It's mostly just a bunch of Tories wanking each other off on here these days. If I'd wanted to see that I'd have gone to Oxford.alterego said:Slow on here again. Have all the socialists emigrated to Venezuela or are they just dug in for the moment
Isn't it rather sickening too to see some posters who denied any problems with the Corbyn project now completely changing their minds - apparently they hated him too, they were just prepared to have that vile sickness in power as it wore their team colours
Kinabalu? Horse Battery?
Then you get the models and Tweets saying "if only everyone who isn't a Tory votes tactically we can win this seat". Or due to tactical voting the Tories could be 11% in the lead and we'd be in Hung Parliament territory . . .0 -
Can I take it you are not a fan?PeterMannion said:Becky Bibbly-Bobbly declared her candidacy yet?
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