(Do you really not know any working-class graduates? I will never get over the social mix of this site... )
Ok, answering your questions. * Guilt? No. Pride? Yes. My parents were well aware of the burdens of being poor and that whole working-class-escaoe thing was a big thing when their contemporaries had way too much industrial injuries/deaths. We've forgotten how dangerous it is to be poor. * Choosing to live far away? It's more a case of "you go where the jobs are". Your choices are only as good as your options. * Little concept to live as the others still do? As I've mentioned before it's a big family (siblings, uncles, aunties, cousins, nieces, nephews,... well over thirty and rising) so they let you know about stuff, no probs, oh Gods do they let you know. Xmas is a scrum in my Dad's house, it's only small.. * Why do upper have more in common with the lower than the middle? That's easy: Darwinian competition. Dogs don't compete with cats, they compete with other dogs to prey upon the cats. Cats don't compete with dogs, they compete with other cats to survive the dogs. He upper do not overlap with the lower and there is no competition, so no conflict. But the lower middle class compete with the upper working class, and the upper middle class compete with the lower upper class. Hence the conflict.
When will this country's ridiculous obsession with class end?
It doesn't matter where you came from, all that matters is where you're going.
As my old prep school master said 'those with class, never mention class' which is a good maxim, which is why you'll never catch me banging on about class, especially my own.
I just saw this picture of Burgon and did a google image search for it. Google decided that it was looking for a picture of a "Scottish fold cat adult"!!!
There is a wicked part of me that ventures to suggest "caucusa". I shall repress it...
The latinate plural would be cauci, I think, and if the origin is Algonquin, as often suggested, then that would predate the USA... Boringly, Charles appears for once to be correct.
(Do you really not know any working-class graduates? I will never get over the social mix of this site... )
Ok, answering your questions. * Guilt? No. Pride? Yes. My parents were well aware of the burdens of being poor and that whole working-class-escaoe thing was a big thing when their contemporaries had way too much industrial injuries/deaths. We've forgotten how dangerous it is to be poor. * Choosing to live far away? It's more a case of "you go where the jobs are". Your choices are only as good as your options. * Little concept to live as the others still do? As I've mentioned before it's a big family (siblings, uncles, aunties, cousins, nieces, nephews,... well over thirty and rising) so they let you know about stuff, no probs, oh Gods do they let you know. Xmas is a scrum in my Dad's house, it's only small.. * Why do upper have more in common with the lower than the middle? That's easy: Darwinian competition. Dogs don't compete with cats, they compete with other dogs to prey upon the cats. Cats don't compete with dogs, they compete with other cats to survive the dogs. He upper do not overlap with the lower and there is no competition, so no conflict. But the lower middle class compete with the upper working class, and the upper middle class compete with the lower upper class. Hence the conflict.
When will this country's ridiculous obsession with class end?
It doesn't matter where you came from, all that matters is where you're going.
As my old prep school master said 'those with class, never mention class' which is a good maxim, which is why you'll never catch me banging on about class, especially my own.
Well there was an election last week, where people of a certain class, whose families never vote for a particular party, did so for the first time. And there are politicians from a rival party striving to appear to be seen as part of that class in order to be able to represent them, so I wondered why they are unconvincing.
I don't think referring to "working class" takes us forward in any meaningful way. Socio-economic class could help more and then we could try to define which strata we are talking about.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
Thornberry must know she has no chance. Can only think she is trying to keep a top job in the next Shadow Cabinet.
And how is her suing a former colleague going to help her chances?
Why would you want to be part of this shitshow in any case? She hardly distinguished herself as Shadow FS.
Not suing could be seen as admitting it was true. It was her suing that made me think she was planning to run actually.
She’s just threatening to sue / consulting lawyers
Smart move to keep the issue 'live' and in everyone's minds as she campaigns*. It will strike people as true given her previous comments (e.g. the flag thing), and by the time it's resolved - even in her favour - the damage is done.
*this is sarcasm
She should sue Jess Phillips as well, for good measure. Her ratings would skyrocket.
Why incidentally if they want to plot their path back to power (ideally via PR) did Mary Creagh lose a 'marginal seat' by a modest margin, i.e. not unexpected, but Caroline Flint lost a 'very safe seat' by a similar margin, i.e. disastrously unexpected? Seat ratings from UK Polling Report 2015. As far as I can see, Creagh refused to recant on her pro-EU beliefs, similarly to Phillips, but Flint became the 'MP for Leave'. They need to answer this.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
Looks like the field is going to be pretty big which will lead to low 1st preference scores across the board but on balance I think that makes it harder for RLB as she won't be transfer friendly.
eg Cooper 1st prefs will go Nandy 2nd pref and vice versa.
RLB needs to win by about 45% in the first round to get the leadership. If she gets the less than that, I could see Starmer overtaking her in the final round. I suspect she has about 35% of the vote guaranteed (unless she has a campaign at a Swinson/May level of awfulness), given all the true believers will vote for her. But whether she can get more than that or not remains to be seen.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
(Do you really not know any working-class graduates? I will never get over the social mix of this site... )
Ok, answering your questions. * Guilt? No. Pride? Yes. My parents were well aware of the burdens of being poor and that whole working-class-escaoe thing was a big thing when their contemporaries had way too much industrial injuries/deaths. We've forgotten how dangerous it is to be poor. * Choosing to live far away? It's more a case of "you go where the jobs are". Your choices are only as good as your options. * Little concept to live as the others still do? As I've mentioned before it's a big family (siblings, uncles, aunties, cousins, nieces, nephews,... well over thirty and rising) so they let you know about stuff, no probs, oh Gods do they let you know. Xmas is a scrum in my Dad's house, it's only small.. * Why do upper have more in common with the lower than the middle? That's easy: Darwinian competition. Dogs don't compete with cats, they compete with other dogs to prey upon the cats. Cats don't compete with dogs, they compete with other cats to survive the dogs. He upper do not overlap with the lower and there is no competition, so no conflict. But the lower middle class compete with the upper working class, and the upper middle class compete with the lower upper class. Hence the conflict.
When will this country's ridiculous obsession with class end?
It doesn't matter where you came from, all that matters is where you're going.
As my old prep school master said 'those with class, never mention class' which is a good maxim, which is why you'll never catch me banging on about class, especially my own.
Well said. It is a totally outmoded concept. Utterly ridiculous and it continues to hold some people, and the country back. I don't care if your father was a duke or a milkman. The family you were born into is a lottery. I do care about how you conduct yourself and whether you are a decent individual with a strong moral compass. Additionally, the school or university that someone went to is of little or no consequence.
The school or university that someone went to should be of little or no consequence. Given the political success of Eton and Oxford alumni it clearly is of consequence.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
Oh well
Yeah, I know. Just that it being a discussion board, an' all...
It's very rare for odds to reflect current national polls. But it's all about Iowa, who wins Iowa will win the nomination, and there are very few Iowa polls this time.
Off topic.
I always suspected it would be a Thornberry vs Starmer race for the Labour leadership. Both of them are Londoners, but Thornberry has the advantage of being a socialist and with good relations with muslim tribal leaders. She can replicate the coalition that gave Corbyn his victory, unlike Starmer.
The biggest problem that Long-Bailey has is geography, Manchester has fewer Labour voters than London.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
Oh well
Yeah, I know. Just that it being a discussion board, an' all...
Yeah well, you don't have to comment if you don't want to
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
Oh well
Yeah, I know. Just that it being a discussion board, an' all...
Yeah well, you don't have to comment if you don't want to
I want to comment that's the whole point of a discussion board, but I want to comment in a meaningful way and hence I pointed out that talking about the "working classes" doesn't allow us to do this.
We could in the same way discuss 望子成龙 but as we don't all know what it means it would be a pretty meaningless discussion.
I think Labour's combined leadership and EU position has done something which has been a long running issue for the Tories.
It's (For electoral purposes) expunged the ghost of Thatcher in England's old coalfields. Seismic.
Very reminiscent of what happened to SLAB post-indyref. Both Bassetlaw and Mansfield have Conservative majorities of around 15,000 now. Utterly astonishing, really.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
Oh well
Yeah, I know. Just that it being a discussion board, an' all...
Yeah well, you don't have to comment if you don't want to
I want to comment that's the whole point of a discussion board, but I want to comment in a meaningful way and hence I pointed out that talking about the "working classes" doesn't allow us to do this.
We could in the same way discuss 望子成龙 but as we don't all know what it means it would be a pretty meaningless discussion.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
Oh well
Yeah, I know. Just that it being a discussion board, an' all...
Yeah well, you don't have to comment if you don't want to
I want to comment that's the whole point of a discussion board, but I want to comment in a meaningful way and hence I pointed out that talking about the "working classes" doesn't allow us to do this.
We could in the same way discuss 望子成龙 but as we don't all know what it means it would be a pretty meaningless discussion.
Disastrous ferry contract costs Scots taxpayers extra £100m Tom Gordon8 mins ago TAXPAYERS are facing an extra £100m bill for two CalMac ferries after a catalogue of errors and mismanagement, Derek Mackay has admitted.
The Finance Secretary told MSPs that the final cost of sourcing the vessels from the last civilian shipyard on the Clyde would be double the original £97m.
(Do you really not know any working-class graduates? I will never get over the social mix of this site... )
Ok, answering your questions. *He upper do not overlap with the lower and there is no competition, so no conflict. But the lower middle class compete with the upper working class, and the upper middle class compete with the lower upper class. Hence the conflict.
When will this country's ridiculous obsession with class end?
It doesn't matter where you came from, all that matters is where you're going.
As my old prep school master said 'those with class, never mention class' which is a good maxim, which is why you'll never catch me banging on about class, especially my own.
Well there was an election last week, where people of a certain class, whose families never vote for a particular party, did so for the first time. And there are politicians from a rival party striving to appear to be seen as part of that class in order to be able to represent them, so I wondered why they are unconvincing.
I don't think referring to "working class" takes us forward in any meaningful way. Socio-economic class could help more and then we could try to define which strata we are talking about.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
"My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background..."
I disagree with that proposition, I think it pushes the argument too far.
If you have had 18 years of experience growing up in a particular environment, that will always be with you, and shape your attitudes, behaviours and political outlook. At least it has with me. And I'll never feel at home in a born & bred Middle Class circle.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
Oh well
Yeah, I know. Just that it being a discussion board, an' all...
Yeah well, you don't have to comment if you don't want to
I want to comment that's the whole point of a discussion board, but I want to comment in a meaningful way and hence I pointed out that talking about the "working classes" doesn't allow us to do this.
We could in the same way discuss 望子成龙 but as we don't all know what it means it would be a pretty meaningless discussion.
(Do you really not know any working-class graduates? I will never get over the social mix of this site... )
Ok, answering your questions. * Guilt? No. Pride? Yes. My parents were well aware of the burdens of being poor and that whole working-class-escaoe thing was a big thing when their contemporaries had way too much industrial injuries/deaths. We've forgotten how dangerous it is to be poor. * Choosing to live far away? It's more a case of "you go where the jobs are". Your choices are only as good as your options. * Little concept to live as the others still do? As I've mentioned before it's a big family (siblings, uncles, aunties, cousins, nieces, nephews,... well over thirty and rising) so they let you know about stuff, no probs, oh Gods do they let you know. Xmas is a scrum in my Dad's house, it's only small.. * Why do upper have more in common with the lower than the middle? That's easy: Darwinian competition. Dogs don't compete with cats, they compete with other dogs to prey upon the cats. Cats don't compete with dogs, they compete with other cats to survive the dogs. He upper do not overlap with the lower and there is no competition, so no conflict. But the lower middle class compete with the upper working class, and the upper middle class compete with the lower upper class. Hence the conflict.
When will this country's ridiculous obsession with class end?
It doesn't matter where you came from, all that matters is where you're going.
As my old prep school master said 'those with class, never mention class' which is a good maxim, which is why you'll never catch me banging on about class, especially my own.
Well said. It is a totally outmoded concept. Utterly ridiculous and it continues to hold some people, and the country back. I don't care if your father was a duke or a milkman. The family you were born into is a lottery. I do care about how you conduct yourself and whether you are a decent individual with a strong moral compass. Additionally, the school or university that someone went to is of little or no consequence.
The school or university that someone went to should be of little or no consequence. Given the political success of Eton and Oxford alumni it clearly is of consequence.
But not on purely class grounds, because of the abject failure of the equally posh Harrow and HAHAHAHAHA Cambridge to compete with E & O.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
Oh well
Yeah, I know. Just that it being a discussion board, an' all...
Yeah well, you don't have to comment if you don't want to
I want to comment that's the whole point of a discussion board, but I want to comment in a meaningful way and hence I pointed out that talking about the "working classes" doesn't allow us to do this.
We could in the same way discuss 望子成龙 but as we don't all know what it means it would be a pretty meaningless discussion.
Just sit it out if you dont get it.
I get that you want to discuss something that you can't define and that you accept means different things to different people. This is problematic for us all on here.
(Do you really not know any working-class graduates? I will never get over the social mix of this site... )
Ok, answering your questions. *He upper do not overlap with the lower and there is no competition, so no conflict. But the lower middle class compete with the upper working class, and the upper middle class compete with the lower upper class. Hence the conflict.
When will this country's ridiculous obsession with class end?
It doesn't matter where you came from, all that matters is where you're going.
As my old prep school master said 'those with class, never mention class' which is a good maxim, which is why you'll never catch me banging on about class, especially my own.
Well there was an election last week, where people of a certain class, whose families never vote for a particular party, did so for the first time. And there are politicians from a rival party striving to appear to be seen as part of that class in order to be able to represent them, so I wondered why they are unconvincing.
I don't think referring to "working class" takes us forward in any meaningful way. Socio-economic class could help more and then we could try to define which strata we are talking about.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
"My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background..."
I disagree with that proposition, I think it pushes the argument too far.
If you have had 18 years of experience growing up in a particular environment, that will always be with you, and shape your attitudes, behaviours and political outlook. At least it has with me. And I'll never feel at home in a born & bred Middle Class circle.
That presumably is why you are very quick with (admittedly) very funny, not to say arch meta-commentary on here.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
Oh well
Yeah, I know. Just that it being a discussion board, an' all...
Yeah well, you don't have to comment if you don't want to
I want to comment that's the whole point of a discussion board, but I want to comment in a meaningful way and hence I pointed out that talking about the "working classes" doesn't allow us to do this.
We could in the same way discuss 望子成龙 but as we don't all know what it means it would be a pretty meaningless discussion.
Just sit it out if you dont get it.
I get that you want to discuss something that you can't define and that you accept means different things to different people. This is problematic for us all on here.
Actually this exchange is illustrative of another divide, one that probably led to Brexit. Some people talk about ideas in a broad sense and a lot of people can identify/go along with that. There are others that enjoy slowing such discussion by demanding precise definitions of everything, pretending to not really know what the other person means, and there are people that enjoy that too.
Is it hedgehogs and foxes? I think Leavers are the hedgehogs
(Do you really not know any working-class graduates? I will never get over the social mix of this site... )
Ok, answering your questions. *He upper do not overlap with the lower and there is no competition, so no conflict. But the lower middle class compete with the upper working class, and the upper middle class compete with the lower upper class. Hence the conflict.
When will this country's ridiculous obsession with class end?
It doesn't matter where you came from, all that matters is where you're going.
As my old prep school master said 'those with class, never mention class' which is a good maxim, which is why you'll never catch me banging on about class, especially my own.
I don't think referring to "working class" takes us forward in any meaningful way. Socio-economic class could help more and then we could try to define which strata we are talking about.
"My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background..."
I disagree with that proposition, I think it pushes the argument too far.
If you have had 18 years of experience growing up in a particular environment, that will always be with you, and shape your attitudes, behaviours and political outlook. At least it has with me. And I'll never feel at home in a born & bred Middle Class circle.
Yeah that proposition is bollox I think. Seriously, I would say that the upper middle class privately educated people I knew at university were totally clueless about working class people, and totally uninterested too. Middle class comprehensive school kids like me were perhaps moderately clueless, although since I had known working class people at school and through evening/weekend jobs I was perhaps not totally clueless. The relatively few working class kids I knew at uni were the least clueless, and also the most likely in my experience to move back to their home areas after uni suggesting they hadn't become disconnected. Where I think Isam is right is that a university education does have a tendency to put up some barriers between people, as it does tend to broaden one's perspectives. I don't know what can be done about that. I would observe though that as a country we really must do something about our class divide and all the nonsense about how people talk etc. Some of the school leavers I worked with at a restaurant were a lot smarter than some of the people I knew at Cambridge.
(Do you really not know any working-class graduates? I will never get over the social mix of this site... )
Ok, answering your questions. *He upper do not overlap with the lower and there is no competition, so no conflict. But the lower middle class compete with the upper working class, and the upper middle class compete with the lower upper class. Hence the conflict.
When will this country's ridiculous obsession with class end?
It doesn't matter where you came from, all that matters is where you're going.
As my old prep school master said 'those with class, never mention class' which is a good maxim, which is why you'll never catch me banging on about class, especially my own.
I don't think referring to "working class" takes us forward in any meaningful way. Socio-economic class could help more and then we could try to define which strata we are talking about.
"My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background..."
I disagree with that proposition, I think it pushes the argument too far.
If you have had 18 years of experience growing up in a particular environment, that will always be with you, and shape your attitudes, behaviours and political outlook. At least it has with me. And I'll never feel at home in a born & bred Middle Class circle.
Yeah that proposition is bollox I think. Seriously, I would say that the upper middle class privately educated people I knew at university were totally clueless about working class people, and totally uninterested too. Middle class comprehensive school kids like me were perhaps moderately clueless, although since I had known be done about that. I would observe though that as a country we really must do something about our class divide and all the nonsense about how people talk etc. Some of the school leavers I worked with at a restaurant were a lot smarter than some of the people I knew at Cambridge.
Also, we have the 'underclass' who are often held in the highest disdain by working class people... Shows like Jeremy Kyle and Benefit street are the pool. These people exist in every town, but are often out of sight. Go to your nearest sure start or speak to a social worker (give them a but of alcohol first to loosen their inbuilt leftism) about the filth and catalogue of bad decisions much of their client base is drawn from.
Ok, answering your questions. *He upper do not overlap with the lower and there is no competition, so no conflict. But the lower middle class compete with the upper working class, and the upper middle class compete with the lower upper class. Hence the conflict.
When will this country's ridiculous obsession with class end?
It doesn't matter where you came from, all that matters is where you're going.
As my old prep school master said 'those with class, never mention class' which is a good maxim, which is why you'll never catch me banging on about class, especially my own.
I don't think referring to "working class" takes us forward in any meaningful way. Socio-economic class could help more and then we could try to define which strata we are talking about.
"My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background..."
I disagree with that proposition, I think it pushes the argument too far.
If you have had 18 years of experience growing up in a particular environment, that will always be with you, and shape your attitudes, behaviours and political outlook. At least it has with me. And I'll never feel at home in a born & bred Middle Class circle.
Yeah that proposition is bollox I think. Seriously, I would say that the upper middle class privately educated people I knew at university were totally clueless about working class people, and totally uninterested too. Middle class comprehensive school kids like me were perhaps moderately clueless, although since I had known working class people at school and through evening/weekend jobs I was perhaps not totally clueless. The relatively few working class kids I knew at uni were the least clueless, and also the most likely in my experience to move back to their home areas after uni suggesting they hadn't become disconnected. Where I think Isam is right is that a university education does have a tendency to put up some barriers between people, as it does tend to broaden one's perspectives. I don't know what can be done about that. I would observe though that as a country we really must do something about our class divide and all the nonsense about how people talk etc. Some of the school leavers I worked with at a restaurant were a lot smarter than some of the people I knew at Cambridge.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
Oh well
Yeah, I know. Just that it being a discussion board, an' all...
Yeah well, you don't have to comment if you don't want to
I want to comment that's the whole point of a discussion board, but I want to comment in a meaningful way and hence I pointed out that talking about the "working classes" doesn't allow us to do this.
We could in the same way discuss 望子成龙 but as we don't all know what it means it would be a pretty meaningless discussion.
Just sit it out if you dont get it.
I get that you want to discuss something that you can't define and that you accept means different things to different people. This is problematic for us all on here.
Actually this exchange is illustrative of another divide, one that probably led to Brexit. Some people talk about ideas in a broad sense and a lot of people can identify/go along with that. There are others that enjoy slowing such discussion by demanding precise definitions of everything, pretending to not really know what the other person means, and there are people that enjoy that too.
Is it hedgehogs and foxes? I think Leavers are the hedgehogs
I genuinely don't know what you mean by the term working class (and neither do you). Whether that lead to Brexit who knows.
I reckon Craig McKinley when we sell Gibraltar off to Spain.
Boris would be toppled as Tory leader in 5 minutes if he even contemplated that
Toppled by who? Even if we accept the Falklands has some totemic value to older Conservatives, why should a party now so careless about breaking up the United Kingdom go to the wall to retain Gibraltar?
The Tories made clear in their manifesto they would ban indyref2 in Scotland so of course no compromise with Spain over Gibraltar.
Gibraltar is also over 90% pro UK unlike Northern Ireland which is 50 50 at best
The Tories also said that putting a border in the Irish Sea was nothing a Tory PM would ever do.
It's touching that you still believe him.
You may have missed a post recently wherein I said that I thought (and think) your work on behalf of the Cons and your comments on here giving your views were admirable. It and they was and were. But c'mon, we Remainers know the score with BoJo. He is 1,000,000 times better than the alternative but he is still a lying sleazeball.
Given the DUP no longer have a majority of Northern Ireland seats and only 43% of Northern Irish voters voted for Unionist parties last week compared to 54% of Scots, Boris was right to avoid a hard border with the Republic of Ireland that would have only hastened pressure for reunification.
Thankyou for the first half of your other comments
He has put a border in the Irish Sea which sees a clear pathway towards reunification. It is something he said, and I quote, "no Tory PM would ever do". And he did it.
There is a confrontational path to a united Ireland (a hard border with the Republic, for example), and a regulatory and de facto path to a united Ireland (a border in the Irish Sea treating the island of Ireland as one entity). Boris opted for the latter.
The median Northern Ireland voter votes Alliance now and they back the Union so long as a hard border with the Republic of Ireland is avoided, thus yet again Boris has saved Brexit and the Union
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
Oh well
Yeah, I know. Just that it being a discussion board, an' all...
Yeah well, you don't have to comment if you don't want to
I want to comment that's the whole point of a discussion board, but I want to comment in a meaningful way and hence I pointed out that talking about the "working classes" doesn't allow us to do this.
We could in the same way discuss 望子成龙 but as we don't all know what it means it would be a pretty meaningless discussion.
Just sit it out if you dont get it.
I get that you want to discuss something that you can't define and that you accept means different things to different people. This is problematic for us all on here.
Actually this exchange is illustrative of another divide, one that probably led to Brexit. Some people talk about ideas in a broad sense and a lot of people can identify/go along with that. There are others that enjoy slowing such discussion by demanding precise definitions of everything, pretending to not really know what the other person means, and there are people that enjoy that too.
Is it hedgehogs and foxes? I think Leavers are the hedgehogs
I genuinely don't know what you mean by the term working class (and neither do you). Whether that lead to Brexit who knows.
Of course I know what I mean!! What a foolish thing to say.
I cant be bothered getting into an argument, although you are trying your best, over precise definitions on a broad subject. I have said that quite clearly, why would you carry it on and on?
Yeah that proposition is bollox I think. Seriously, I would say that the upper middle class privately educated people I knew at university were totally clueless about working class people, and totally uninterested too. Middle class comprehensive school kids like me were perhaps moderately clueless, although since I had known working class people at school and through evening/weekend jobs I was perhaps not totally clueless. The relatively few working class kids I knew at uni were the least clueless, and also the most likely in my experience to move back to their home areas after uni suggesting they hadn't become disconnected. Where I think Isam is right is that a university education does have a tendency to put up some barriers between people, as it does tend to broaden one's perspectives. I don't know what can be done about that. I would observe though that as a country we really must do something about our class divide and all the nonsense about how people talk etc. Some of the school leavers I worked with at a restaurant were a lot smarter than some of the people I knew at Cambridge.
Doesn't a very large percentage of the population now go to university?
Not like it was back in the bad old "5%" days.
Not that I would necessarily advise it but look at the Daily Mail photo spreads of eg students out for a boozy night out. Not sure I would hazard a guess at the various socio-economic classes on display there. Lots of bare flesh, however.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Working Class can mean a few different Things depending on where you live.
If someone said to me working class, I'd assume it's people who work at a job with average or below average wages.
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
Oh well
Yeah, I know. Just that it being a discussion board, an' all...
Yeah well, you don't have to comment if you don't want to
I want to comment that's the whole point of a discussion board, but I want to comment in a meaningful way and hence I pointed out that talking about the "working classes" doesn't allow us to do this.
We could in the same way discuss 望子成龙 but as we don't all know what it means it would be a pretty meaningless discussion.
Just sit it out if you dont get it.
I get that you want to discuss something that you can't define and that you accept means different things to different people. This is problematic for us all on here.
Actually this exchange is illustrative of another divide, one that probably led to Brexit. Some people talk about ideas in a broad sense and a lot of people can identify/go along with that. There are others that enjoy slowing such discussion by demanding precise definitions of everything, pretending to not really know what the other person means, and there are people that enjoy that too.
Is it hedgehogs and foxes? I think Leavers are the hedgehogs
I genuinely don't know what you mean by the term working class (and neither do you). Whether that lead to Brexit who knows.
Of course I know what I mean!! What a foolish thing to say.
I cant be bothered getting into an argument, although you are trying your best, over precise definitions on a broad subject. I have said that quite clearly, why would you carry it on and on?
So define your version of working class so we can have this discussion we keep threatening to have about it.
Means something different to everyone really. It isnt for me to define it, and I dont want to get bogged down in pinnicity precision arguments when I am just thinking aloud about a general point
Well if you are basing your point on someone being working class, and accept that this will mean different things to different people I'm not sure, as I said to start with, it takes the discussion forward in any meaningful way.
Oh well
Yeah, I know. Just that it being a discussion board, an' all...
Yeah well, you don't have to comment if you don't want to
I want to comment that's the whole point of a discussion board, but I want to comment in a meaningful way and hence I pointed out that talking about the "working classes" doesn't allow us to do this.
We could in the same way discuss 望子成龙 but as we don't all know what it means it would be a pretty meaningless discussion.
Just sit it out if you dont get it.
I get that you want to discuss something that you can't define and that you accept means different things to different people. This is problematic for us all on here.
Actually this exchange is illustrative of another divide, one that probably led to Brexit. Some people talk about ideas in a broad sense and a lot of people can identify/go along with that. There are others that enjoy slowing such discussion by demanding precise definitions of everything, pretending to not really know what the other person means, and there are people that enjoy that too.
Is it hedgehogs and foxes? I think Leavers are the hedgehogs
I genuinely don't know what you mean by the term working class (and neither do you). Whether that lead to Brexit who knows.
Of course I know what I mean!! What a foolish thing to say.
I cant be bothered getting into an argument, although you are trying your best, over precise definitions on a broad subject. I have said that quite clearly, why would you carry it on and on?
So define your version of working class so we can have this discussion we keep threatening to have about it.
Yeah, arguing with you over precise definitions of what working class is sounds such fun
Yeah, arguing with you over precise definitions of what working class is sounds such fun
Just tell me what you think it means and we can go on that basis.
If it's ok, I wont bother.
roger dodge.
Well, you could say I have dodged the question, or you could say you have dodged the debate by refusing to engage without your demands being met! Either way, glad it's all over
Discussion on radio yesterday that there was a lot of feedback on doorsteps that Jo Swinson was too young to be PM. Argument was put that she isn't actually that young but she just looks and comes across as young.
I do wonder if exactly the same thing is going to be thought about RLB. And that it could well stop her becoming leader, let alone PM.
I know everyone says Labour membership are now all Corbynites but Owen Smith got 40% and he was a very weak candidate. Add in that Lab has now lost twice under Corbyn and I think even left wing members are going to look hard at electability.
We'll have to see how RLB is perceived but I think it's quite likely she is not going to come across as having the necessary maturity and gravitas. The contrast with Starmer is going to be very obvious.
Agree with you on RLB. By contrast, my wife and I watched Nandy on Newsnight last night and were very impressed.
If Nandy can keep her head down a bit, and let Thornberry and Starmer do the heavy lifting of attacking Corbyn to draw the flak of Momentum, then I think that Nandy has the potential to come through the middle as the "unity" candidate.
She does look a lot younger than she is. It will be interesting to see how people respond
Do you think one day future people discussing politics will be looking back longingly at the days when Labour had 'Big Beasts' like Burgon, Thornberry and Long-Bailey?
Emily Thornberry has declared she is entering the race to succeed Jeremy Corbyn, revealing she warned the Labour leadership that backing a Brexit election would be an “act of catastrophic political folly”.
She's the one who made a dodgy policy immeasurably worse by undermining it on Question Time. How can she look at what happened with Corbyn and Brexit and the working class and conclude that she is the answer, At least now she is standing, she will have to visit the North and meet Labour activists and members face to face in places like Leigh and Blyth and hear first hand how she helped them get a Tory MP.
If you join the Fabians and are already a Labour Party member do you get to vote against Emily Thornberry twice ?
Emily Thornberry has declared she is entering the race to succeed Jeremy Corbyn, revealing she warned the Labour leadership that backing a Brexit election would be an “act of catastrophic political folly”.
If it astounds you for Emily Thornberry, the very working class daughter of an international diplomat, wife of a successful barrister and a self-declared former Colonel of the British Army - I’m afraid you haven’t been paying attention.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
If Starmer is successful it must increase the likelihood of Labour going in to the next GE with a commitment to rejoin the EU immediately, either directly or by referendum.
That will pretty much kill them off in the Mids/NW/NE.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
Thanks, although that shows the current not the historic situation.
What’s striking about that is there’s only one constituency - Stoke Central - that even looks close. The rest are fairly safe Tory at the moment. And yet, it’s not long ago that the likes of Cannock and Newcastle under Lyme were considered safe for Labour.
Although that thought should give certain Tories pause as well...
We saw HYUFDs immediate reaction to the prorogation ruling was that political appointment of judges was inevitable, and he clearly captures the tory mood on such matters. Boris is going to go for the courts in a big way - we know he is vindictive by nature.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
Thanks, although that shows the current not the historic situation.
What’s striking about that is there’s only one constituency - Stoke Central - that even looks close. The rest are fairly safe Tory at the moment. And yet, it’s not long ago that the likes of Cannock and Newcastle under Lyme were considered safe for Labour.
Although that thought should give certain Tories pause as well...
We saw HYUFDs immediate reaction to the prorogation ruling was that political appointment of judges was inevitable, and he clearly captures the tory mood on such matters. Boris is going to go for the courts in a big way - we know he is vindictive by nature.
Perhaps it will give her pause for thought on her gloating.
The idea that English voters have a rational, pragmatic attitude to Scots making their own decision re. the Union seems to have receded somewhat. Presumably after decades of whining about the oppressive EU taking away their sovereignty, they've now decided that's their job.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
Thanks, although that shows the current not the historic situation.
What’s striking about that is there’s only one constituency - Stoke Central - that even looks close. The rest are fairly safe Tory at the moment. And yet, it’s not long ago that the likes of Cannock and Newcastle under Lyme were considered safe for Labour.
Although that thought should give certain Tories pause as well...
If you scroll down there are more charts!
I was just testing, honestly *tries to look innocent and fails dismally*
Thanks, these are very interesting indeed. Do you know if they do them for all counties? Northumberland and Cumbria would be an interesting set.
We saw HYUFDs immediate reaction to the prorogation ruling was that political appointment of judges was inevitable, and he clearly captures the tory mood on such matters. Boris is going to go for the courts in a big way - we know he is vindictive by nature.
Perhaps it will give her pause for thought on her gloating.
Yes, her gloating is so egregious the government deciding to undermine the courts is perfectly proportionate a response.
The idea that English voters have a rational, pragmatic attitude to Scots making their own decision re. the Union seems to have receded somewhat. Presumably after decades of whining about the oppressive EU taking away their sovereignty, they've now decided that's their job.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
Thanks, although that shows the current not the historic situation.
What’s striking about that is there’s only one constituency - Stoke Central - that even looks close. The rest are fairly safe Tory at the moment. And yet, it’s not long ago that the likes of Cannock and Newcastle under Lyme were considered safe for Labour.
Although that thought should give certain Tories pause as well...
If you scroll down there are more charts!
I was just testing, honestly *tries to look innocent and fails dismally*
Thanks, these are very interesting indeed. Do you know if they do them for all counties? Northumberland and Cumbria would be an interesting set.
I am indeed spoiling you.
There should be links at the bottom for different regions. Thanks to the wikipedia editors who put them together!
The idea that English voters have a rational, pragmatic attitude to Scots making their own decision re. the Union seems to have receded somewhat. Presumably after decades of whining about the oppressive EU taking away their sovereignty, they've now decided that's their job.
Well the second referendum on whether to leave the EEC/EU took place 41 years after the original one, so maybe after decades of whining yourself you'll be able to persuade Scots to leave the UK circa 2055.
We saw HYUFDs immediate reaction to the prorogation ruling was that political appointment of judges was inevitable, and he clearly captures the tory mood on such matters. Boris is going to go for the courts in a big way - we know he is vindictive by nature.
Perhaps it will give her pause for thought on her gloating.
Yes, her gloating is so egregious the government deciding to undermine the courts is perfectly proportionate a response.
If she wanted to get into politics and creating laws then maybe she should have stood for Parliament?
Comments
I just saw this picture of Burgon and did a google image search for it. Google decided that it was looking for a picture of a "Scottish fold cat adult"!!!
I think.
https://parliamentlive.tv/Download/Index/337f03db-2d05-4321-9e1b-cb73c1993d92
Edit - it is Aaron being sworn in, not a Rickroll.
"Remind me again, why Jeremy didn't resign on Friday...."
Boringly, Charles appears for once to be correct.
He'll be able to take apart Boris Johnson forensically at the despatch box.
Boris Johnson doesn't do detail and Sir Keir does.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1207321038608093184
I suspect she has about 35% of the vote guaranteed (unless she has a campaign at a Swinson/May level of awfulness), given all the true believers will vote for her. But whether she can get more than that or not remains to be seen.
Edit - Oh you meant pernickety.
It's very rare for odds to reflect current national polls.
But it's all about Iowa, who wins Iowa will win the nomination, and there are very few Iowa polls this time.
Off topic.
I always suspected it would be a Thornberry vs Starmer race for the Labour leadership.
Both of them are Londoners, but Thornberry has the advantage of being a socialist and with good relations with muslim tribal leaders.
She can replicate the coalition that gave Corbyn his victory, unlike Starmer.
The biggest problem that Long-Bailey has is geography, Manchester has fewer Labour voters than London.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/enemies-within/#more-113516
We could in the same way discuss 望子成龙 but as we don't all know what it means it would be a pretty meaningless discussion.
Disastrous ferry contract costs Scots taxpayers extra £100m
Tom Gordon8 mins ago
TAXPAYERS are facing an extra £100m bill for two CalMac ferries after a catalogue of errors and mismanagement, Derek Mackay has admitted.
The Finance Secretary told MSPs that the final cost of sourcing the vessels from the last civilian shipyard on the Clyde would be double the original £97m.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18109925.disastrous-ferry-contract-costs-scots-taxpayers-extra-100m/
They also got Phil 'The Power' Taylor on, and he was very fulsome in his praise for her, and what a positive move forward this was for the game.
I disagree with that proposition, I think it pushes the argument too far.
If you have had 18 years of experience growing up in a particular environment, that will always be with you, and shape your attitudes, behaviours and political outlook. At least it has with me. And I'll never feel at home in a born & bred Middle Class circle.
Is it hedgehogs and foxes? I think Leavers are the hedgehogs
Where I think Isam is right is that a university education does have a tendency to put up some barriers between people, as it does tend to broaden one's perspectives. I don't know what can be done about that. I would observe though that as a country we really must do something about our class divide and all the nonsense about how people talk etc. Some of the school leavers I worked with at a restaurant were a lot smarter than some of the people I knew at Cambridge.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-50838823
Pffffttt
you've got at least 10 more years of it so better adapt.
I cant be bothered getting into an argument, although you are trying your best, over precise definitions on a broad subject. I have said that quite clearly, why would you carry it on and on?
Not like it was back in the bad old "5%" days.
Not that I would necessarily advise it but look at the Daily Mail photo spreads of eg students out for a boozy night out. Not sure I would hazard a guess at the various socio-economic classes on display there. Lots of bare flesh, however.
If the Tories really want to hold places like Rother Valley then they should talk non stop about rugby union.
If someone said to me working class, I'd assume it's people who work at a job with average or below average wages.
Yeah, arguing with you over precise definitions of what working class is sounds such fun
I’m in Dublin next year, I’ll try and catch a game.
I don't disagree or dislike hurling but it's definitely a physical and tough (rough) sport.
Real rugby doesn’t have the big girl’s blouse fifth tackle rule.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bx8eyexz1m9jboz/File 18-12-2019, 16 20 14.jpeg?dl=0
As featured in "The Pie at Night" by Stuart Maconie. Essential reading for aspiring Labour Party leaders.
She's the one who made a dodgy policy immeasurably worse by undermining it on Question Time. How can she look at what happened with Corbyn and Brexit and the working class and conclude that she is the answer,
At least now she is standing, she will have to visit the North and meet Labour activists and members face to face in places like Leigh and Blyth and hear first hand how she helped them get a Tory MP.
If you join the Fabians and are already a Labour Party member do you get to vote against Emily Thornberry twice ?
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50837694
That will pretty much kill them off in the Mids/NW/NE.
What’s striking about that is there’s only one constituency - Stoke Central - that even looks close. The rest are fairly safe Tory at the moment. And yet, it’s not long ago that the likes of Cannock and Newcastle under Lyme were considered safe for Labour.
Although that thought should give certain Tories pause as well...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50836164
We saw HYUFDs immediate reaction to the prorogation ruling was that political appointment of judges was inevitable, and he clearly captures the tory mood on such matters. Boris is going to go for the courts in a big way - we know he is vindictive by nature.
https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1207341259226046464?s=20
Thanks, these are very interesting indeed. Do you know if they do them for all counties? Northumberland and Cumbria would be an interesting set.
Has anybody managed to work out if she shook the hand of the winning candidate at her declaration?
There should be links at the bottom for different regions. Thanks to the wikipedia editors who put them together!
Sounds like great news for Long Bailey to me. Who joins a party to elect Keir Starmer aside from saddos like us on here ?
Unless appointees were builders, postmen, bus drivers etc rather than members of the legal profession qualified to take up positions in the court.