I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
Thanks, although that shows the current not the historic situation.
What’s striking about that is there’s only one constituency - Stoke Central - that even looks close. The rest are fairly safe Tory at the moment. And yet, it’s not long ago that the likes of Cannock and Newcastle under Lyme were considered safe for Labour.
Although that thought should give certain Tories pause as well...
If you scroll down there are more charts!
I was just testing, honestly *tries to look innocent and fails dismally*
Thanks, these are very interesting indeed. Do you know if they do them for all counties? Northumberland and Cumbria would be an interesting set.
I am indeed spoiling you.
There should be links at the bottom for different regions. Thanks to the wikipedia editors who put them together!
Thanks. No Labour MPs in Cumberland for the first time since 1910 is also pretty damning.
On class, I'm not sure that voters care about the class of their representatives, it that they want them to understand (and care) about their lives and problems. Someone from a southern working class family (like me) has no more knowledge about what its like to have grown up or to live in one of the areas that has seen a mass employer, whether mining, steel etc, disappear than does a toff in his mansion. There was no reason for those people to choose Corbyn over Johnson, both are clueless about their lives and problems, but Johnson at least seemed to get one bit - the desire for Brexit, whether that desire was wise or not - and didn't pretend to be one of them.
Obviously, this is an outsider view as I'm not really part of that community (I live in a former mining area, but one that's done OKish, and used to live in Newport in Wales, but I grew up elsewhere). I think someone who grew up in or lives in one of those communities and is authentically part of it could have an advantage because they'll have a head start in understanding the problems and may be able to talk about solutions. An outsider, whether working class from elsewhere or a toff can earn the votes if they pay a bit of attention and are seen to be making an effort to understand the problems. There was nothing in the Labour offering for these people (rail travel prices - irrelevant to many, tuition fees - likewise if you/your peers/your children are not going to university and doubly so if those who do go to university move away from hte constituency to where the good jobs are, free broadband - you've other more pressing problems, nationalised utilities with reduced charges - limited relevance if you're nowhere near making ends meet anyway). What these people want to know is where the good quality jobs are going to come from that will breathe life back into their towns and that's a hard problem and not one that any of the parties talked about in any meaningful way.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
Thanks, although that shows the current not the historic situation.
What’s striking about that is there’s only one constituency - Stoke Central - that even looks close. The rest are fairly safe Tory at the moment. And yet, it’s not long ago that the likes of Cannock and Newcastle under Lyme were considered safe for Labour.
Although that thought should give certain Tories pause as well...
If you scroll down there are more charts!
Notts is another one that has seen big change. in 1997, Lab won all but Rushcliffe and now they only have the 3 in Nottingham left.
Similarly in Derbyshire, they had them all in 1997 except Derbyshire Dales and now they only have Derby S and Chesterfield left.
We saw HYUFDs immediate reaction to the prorogation ruling was that political appointment of judges was inevitable, and he clearly captures the tory mood on such matters. Boris is going to go for the courts in a big way - we know he is vindictive by nature.
Perhaps it will give her pause for thought on her gloating.
Yes, her gloating is so egregious the government deciding to undermine the courts is perfectly proportionate a response.
If she wanted to get into politics and creating laws then maybe she should have stood for Parliament?
Again missing the point about whether even if her judgement was wrong is this the correct response.
Yes, her gloating is so egregious the government deciding to undermine the courts is perfectly proportionate a response.
'Undermine' is a touch over the top.
Unless appointees were builders, postmen, bus drivers etc rather than members of the legal profession qualified to take up positions in the court.
The judging of their politics based on their rulings is nonsense and should not be made official. And I say that as someone who would have been content if the prorogation ruling went the other way.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
Thanks, although that shows the current not the historic situation.
What’s striking about that is there’s only one constituency - Stoke Central - that even looks close. The rest are fairly safe Tory at the moment. And yet, it’s not long ago that the likes of Cannock and Newcastle under Lyme were considered safe for Labour.
Although that thought should give certain Tories pause as well...
If you scroll down there are more charts!
Notts is another one that has seen big change. in 1997, Lab won all but Rushcliffe and now they only have the 3 in Nottingham left.
Similarly in Derbyshire, they had them all in 1997 except Derbyshire Dales and now they only have Derby S and Chesterfield left.
Notts is especially interesting because you can see the gradual retreat of Labour outside Nottingham over time. You would not notice the interruption of Labour’s decline in 1997 as you would by looking at Staffs, Glos or Worcestershire.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Working class people get cash loans from their parents and always pay them back Middle class people get cash gifts from their parents and never pay them back
Middle-class people think the world is a garden and are shocked when things go wrong Working-class people think the world is a jungle and are never shocked when things go wrong
Working class people save up and pay their own deposit when buying a house Middle class people expect their parents to give them the deposit, or even buy the house for them.
There's a few more as well ("never write a cheque you can't cash, never pack a bag you can't carry") but that'll do to be going on with.
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
We saw HYUFDs immediate reaction to the prorogation ruling was that political appointment of judges was inevitable, and he clearly captures the tory mood on such matters. Boris is going to go for the courts in a big way - we know he is vindictive by nature.
Perhaps it will give her pause for thought on her gloating.
Yes, her gloating is so egregious the government deciding to undermine the courts is perfectly proportionate a response.
If she wanted to get into politics and creating laws then maybe she should have stood for Parliament?
Again missing the point about whether even if her judgement was wrong is this the correct response.
It is a pretty inevitable response when judges start creating rather than enforcing laws.
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
Along these lines, I always wonder why some states in the US have open primaries. There must be a temptation for some to vote for the worst candidate.
The idea that English voters have a rational, pragmatic attitude to Scots making their own decision re. the Union seems to have receded somewhat. Presumably after decades of whining about the oppressive EU taking away their sovereignty, they've now decided that's their job.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
You have offended me.
I certainly DO NOT consider RBL/Burgon as the worst candidates.
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
Don't worry, they'll probably do a thorough screening for gammons.
Why would they do that? Surely both gammons and the far-left both want continuity-Corbyn? If anything they should advertise Labour Party memberships on ConHome.
The idea that English voters have a rational, pragmatic attitude to Scots making their own decision re. the Union seems to have receded somewhat. Presumably after decades of whining about the oppressive EU taking away their sovereignty, they've now decided that's their job.
Mr. Divvie, a poll on the 2016 referendum day had Remain ahead by 10 points.
An opinion poll doesn't outweigh a referendum result.
Fair enough. I shall take as my model the reticence that PB Yoons show in referring to polls that previously said that a majority of Scots don't want another indy ref.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
You have offended me.
I certainly DO NOT consider RBL/Burgon as the worst candidates.
They would be outstanding.
That shouting creature from Hove would be worse, should he be persuaded to stand.
We saw HYUFDs immediate reaction to the prorogation ruling was that political appointment of judges was inevitable, and he clearly captures the tory mood on such matters. Boris is going to go for the courts in a big way - we know he is vindictive by nature.
Perhaps it will give her pause for thought on her gloating.
Yes, her gloating is so egregious the government deciding to undermine the courts is perfectly proportionate a response.
If she wanted to get into politics and creating laws then maybe she should have stood for Parliament?
Again missing the point about whether even if her judgement was wrong is this the correct response.
It is a pretty inevitable response when judges start creating rather than enforcing laws.
I know I am probably being dense here but how exactly did the SC 'create' a new law? Surely a new law has to be an Act of Parliament passed by both houses and and duly given royal assent?
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
Hey, if Labour don’t like it, they should rewrite their rules to remove a loophole a fairly bright five year old would have spotted.
Blame Ed Miliband for making it possible, not those who do as he asked.
In any case, Labour members are in no position to lecture given they chose the nutcase twice even without help.
Why would they do that? Surely both gammons and the far-left both want continuity-Corbyn? If anything they should advertise Labour Party memberships on ConHome.
You're right you know.
The people the far-left despise would definitely give them the very leadership pairing they yearn for.
We saw HYUFDs immediate reaction to the prorogation ruling was that political appointment of judges was inevitable, and he clearly captures the tory mood on such matters. Boris is going to go for the courts in a big way - we know he is vindictive by nature.
Perhaps it will give her pause for thought on her gloating.
Yes, her gloating is so egregious the government deciding to undermine the courts is perfectly proportionate a response.
If she wanted to get into politics and creating laws then maybe she should have stood for Parliament?
Again missing the point about whether even if her judgement was wrong is this the correct response.
It is a pretty inevitable response when judges start creating rather than enforcing laws.
I know I am probably being dense here but how exactly did the SC 'create' a new law? Surely a new law has to be an Act of Parliament passed by both houses and and duly given royal assent?
They reinterpreted a wide variety of case law, some of it rather aggressively, to declare an action that was previously legal was not legal.
In theory, that’s not creating a new law.
In practice, however, it is a distinction without a difference.
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
Agreed, and @SunnyJim will no doubt be moaning about the lack of a proper opposition and/or screaming blue murder at the prospect of a 'marxist' government winning power and turning Britain into Venezuela come the next GE.
We saw HYUFDs immediate reaction to the prorogation ruling was that political appointment of judges was inevitable, and he clearly captures the tory mood on such matters. Boris is going to go for the courts in a big way - we know he is vindictive by nature.
Perhaps it will give her pause for thought on her gloating.
Yes, her gloating is so egregious the government deciding to undermine the courts is perfectly proportionate a response.
If she wanted to get into politics and creating laws then maybe she should have stood for Parliament?
Again missing the point about whether even if her judgement was wrong is this the correct response.
It is a pretty inevitable response when judges start creating rather than enforcing laws.
No, it really isn't.
It is precisely the judges role to define bits of the law which are undefined. If Parliament is unhappy about the way they've done it, a reasonable response might be to look at those aspects of constitutional law surrounding prorogation and then perhaps legislate on them. Packing the courts with politically vetted judges is wrong. And a conservative ought to recognise that.
There is a suggestion that Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips are working class, because their parents or grand parents were, and this will help them understand the concerns of Labour voters who voted for Boris. My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background educated at private schools. Sorry I don't really know what socio economic class means
What does working class mean?
Working class people get cash loans from their parents and always pay them back Middle class people get cash gifts from their parents and never pay them back
Middle-class people think the world is a garden and are shocked when things go wrong Working-class people think the world is a jungle and are never shocked when things go wrong
Working class people save up and pay their own deposit when buying a house Middle class people expect their parents to give them the deposit, or even buy the house for them.
There's a few more as well ("never write a cheque you can't cash, never pack a bag you can't carry") but that'll do to be going on with.
Interesting. I'm *definitely* middle class...
On a related topic, it's been interesting watching certain 'bubbles' on social media. Other commentators on here have pointed out the conspiracy theorists, but what's been more interesting to me is the sharing of recommendations of what to do to feel better in light of the "end of the world" (aka, Tory Landslide).
The recommendations are numerous, but include: donate to food banks, help others less able, visit elderly relatives, reconnect with a friend, feed the birds, etc. Basically, double-down on making a positive difference in our communities.
And it occurs to me that there are a lot of people out there who feel that if - somehow - progressive politicians were swept to power, somehow all of this would be solved, that homelessness and poverty would somehow disappear. I'm not saying everyone feels like this, but difficult to shake the suspicion that - rather than being part of the problem, they just want someone else to solve those things that ruin 'the garden' (as you refer to it).
I wonder if a period of adopting a working class mindset might be a bit of a tonic for these people. After all, one of the best recommendations for anyone riven by anxiety, stress and worry is to focus on helping others?
I don't think referring to "working class" takes us forward in any meaningful way. Socio-economic class could help more and then we could try to define which strata we are talking about.
"My proposition is that people from a working class, provincial background who go to Uni then go to work in a big city, become as disconnected, if not more, from the lives of the working class as those from a privileged background..."
I disagree with that proposition, I think it pushes the argument too far.
If you have had 18 years of experience growing up in a particular environment, that will always be with you, and shape your attitudes, behaviours and political outlook. At least it has with me. And I'll never feel at home in a born & bred Middle Class circle.
Yeah that proposition is bollox I think. Seriously, I would say that the upper middle class privately educated people I knew at university were totally clueless about working class people, and totally uninterested too. Middle class comprehensive school kids like me were perhaps moderately clueless, although since I had known working class people at school and through evening/weekend jobs I was perhaps not totally clueless. The relatively few working class kids I knew at uni were the least clueless, and also the most likely in my experience to move back to their home areas after uni suggesting they hadn't become disconnected. Where I think Isam is right is that a university education does have a tendency to put up some barriers between people, as it does tend to broaden one's perspectives. I don't know what can be done about that. I would observe though that as a country we really must do something about our class divide and all the nonsense about how people talk etc. Some of the school leavers I worked with at a restaurant were a lot smarter than some of the people I knew at Cambridge.
I have made a journey from working class to middle class and I always thought I had kept my understanding of what it was to be poor.
Volunteering at Citizens Advice has disabused me of that notion. I am continually shocked at how difficult life is for some of our poorer compatriots. Sometimes some of the people we see have not helped themselves but generally they have made the serious error of being bloody unlucky.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
Thanks, although that shows the current not the historic situation.
What’s striking about that is there’s only one constituency - Stoke Central - that even looks close. The rest are fairly safe Tory at the moment. And yet, it’s not long ago that the likes of Cannock and Newcastle under Lyme were considered safe for Labour.
Although that thought should give certain Tories pause as well...
If you scroll down there are more charts!
Notts is another one that has seen big change. in 1997, Lab won all but Rushcliffe and now they only have the 3 in Nottingham left.
Similarly in Derbyshire, they had them all in 1997 except Derbyshire Dales and now they only have Derby S and Chesterfield left.
Notts is especially interesting because you can see the gradual retreat of Labour outside Nottingham over time. You would not notice the interruption of Labour’s decline in 1997 as you would by looking at Staffs, Glos or Worcestershire.
Notts is also interesting if you compare to 1987. Back then, Lab held Bassetlaw, Mansfield and Ashfield but not the three Nottingham seats. Now even in this nadir when they are miles behind in Manfield etc they hold the three city seats very comfortably indeed.
There's a lot of interest to be had in considering the seats which were marginal in 1997 which are now safe reasonably safe Lab even as the party's score of seats has halved. Hove, Bristol West, Edgbaston, Chester. But as far as I can think, only one seat which went Lab in 2019 but was Con in 1997: Canterbury. Anyone think of any others?
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
Strangely the PB 3 quidders went all quiet when their gas was put at a peep at the 2017 GE; at one point there was even an attempt by some to claim that it wasn't really a thing. The opportunistic triumphalism that's encouraging them to crawl out of their holes isn't very attractive.
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
Strangely the PB 3 quidders went all quiet when their gas was put at a peep at the 2017 GE; at one point there was even an attempt by some to claim that it wasn't really a thing. The opportunistic triumphalism that's encouraging them to crawl out of their holes isn't very attractive.
It didn’t make any difference to either result. Corbyn would still have won both times.
I do hope however that Labour will reflect on what people are saying and close this stupid loophole. I doubt it though because it’s very lucrative for them and they’re clearly badly in need of money.
Strangely the PB 3 quidders went all quiet when their gas was put at a peep at the 2017 GE; at one point there was even an attempt by some to claim that it wasn't really a thing. The opportunistic triumphalism that's encouraging them to crawl out of their holes isn't very attractive.
Certainly no triumphalism here.
Just a solid belief that you can never have too much democracy and therefore there is nothing wrong with expressing a view if invited to do so.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
Thanks, although that shows the current not the historic situation.
What’s striking about that is there’s only one constituency - Stoke Central - that even looks close. The rest are fairly safe Tory at the moment. And yet, it’s not long ago that the likes of Cannock and Newcastle under Lyme were considered safe for Labour.
Although that thought should give certain Tories pause as well...
If you scroll down there are more charts!
Notts is another one that has seen big change. in 1997, Lab won all but Rushcliffe and now they only have the 3 in Nottingham left.
Similarly in Derbyshire, they had them all in 1997 except Derbyshire Dales and now they only have Derby S and Chesterfield left.
Notts is especially interesting because you can see the gradual retreat of Labour outside Nottingham over time. You would not notice the interruption of Labour’s decline in 1997 as you would by looking at Staffs, Glos or Worcestershire.
Notts is also interesting if you compare to 1987. Back then, Lab held Bassetlaw, Mansfield and Ashfield but not the three Nottingham seats. Now even in this nadir when they are miles behind in Manfield etc they hold the three city seats very comfortably indeed.. There's a lot of interest to be had in considering the seats which were marginal in 1997 which are now safe reasonably safe Lab even as the party's score of seats has halved. Hove, Bristol West, Edgbaston, Chester. But as far as I can think, only one seat which went Lab in 2019 but was Con in 1997: Canterbury. Anyone think of any others?
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
Hey, if Labour don’t like it, they should rewrite their rules to remove a loophole a fairly bright five year old would have spotted.
Blame Ed Miliband for making it possible, not those who do as he asked.
In any case, Labour members are in no position to lecture given they chose the nutcase twice even without help.
Oh goody, inch perfect Boris governments 'til I die.
It used to be decidedly middle-class but is now brushing its clothes barely above the likes of Asda and Tesco. And even Morrisons arguably pips it in some areas now.
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
Strangely the PB 3 quidders went all quiet when their gas was put at a peep at the 2017 GE; at one point there was even an attempt by some to claim that it wasn't really a thing. The opportunistic triumphalism that's encouraging them to crawl out of their holes isn't very attractive.
And is it SNP triumphalism that’s encouraged your attractive side to come out of the woodwork so frequently since Friday morning?
It used to be decidedly middle-class but is now brushing its clothes barely above the likes of Asda and Tesco. And even Morrisons arguably pips it in some areas now.
Yuk.
Is there a Waitrose or an M&S close by? If so that is where I would expect to find much of the middle class.
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
I thought about it for a second, but it just seems unsporting. Jezza during the elections came to a place only a couple of miles away from me. I didn’t go and try and whip,up an angry mob of protestors. I just left it.
But as night follows day the local CLP would have been in meltdown getting as many supporters out to boo, picket and heckle any event Boris would have turned up to.
It used to be decidedly middle-class but is now brushing its clothes barely above the likes of Asda and Tesco. And even Morrisons arguably pips it in some areas now.
Yuk.
Is there a Waitrose or an M&S close by? If so that is where I would expect to find much of the middle class.
I used to scoff at people who spouted on about Waitrose... until I moved near one and tried it myself. No going back (while funds last!).
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
Thanks, although that shows the current not the historic situation.
What’s striking about that is there’s only one constituency - Stoke Central - that even looks close. The rest are fairly safe Tory at the moment. And yet, it’s not long ago that the likes of Cannock and Newcastle under Lyme were considered safe for Labour.
Although that thought should give certain Tories pause as well...
If you scroll down there are more charts!
I was just testing, honestly *tries to look innocent and fails dismally*
Thanks, these are very interesting indeed. Do you know if they do them for all counties? Northumberland and Cumbria would be an interesting set.
I am indeed spoiling you.
There should be links at the bottom for different regions. Thanks to the wikipedia editors who put them together!
Thanks. No Labour MPs in Cumberland for the first time since 1910 is also pretty damning.
The council of the historic county of Cumberland is making a comeback!
No dressing that up, unless it’s in a Barbour wax jacket, red trousers and brogues of course.
In nature, bright red colouring is usually a "warning! toxic! avoid!" signal.
Just sayin'.
I suffered in the run-up to election day through not being able to wear my favourite red trousers because Jezza had asked people to wear something red to show their support for him...
Be fair. 23,998 were @HYUFD . . One was @SeanT who pressed the wrong button whilst trying to order raw opium and absinthe. And the last was @Byronic five minutes later PURELY BY COINCIDENCE
No dressing that up, unless it’s in a Barbour wax jacket, red trousers and brogues of course.
In nature, bright red colouring is usually a "warning! toxic! avoid!" signal.
Just sayin'.
I suffered in the run-up to election day through not being able to wear my favourite red trousers because Jezza had asked people to wear something red to show their support for him...
Look on the bright side - everyone around you benefited
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
Along these lines, I always wonder why some states in the US have open primaries. There must be a temptation for some to vote for the worst candidate.
Although there is always the risk they end up winning. Those who voted for Corbyn might have regretted it if he had ended up Prime Minister
It used to be decidedly middle-class but is now brushing its clothes barely above the likes of Asda and Tesco. And even Morrisons arguably pips it in some areas now.
Yuk.
The only way to avoid definitely brushing shoulders with the lower orders is to have your groceries delivered. But for heaven's sake remember to select A-B for the class of the delivery driver, or who knows what you may have to put up with?
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
Strangely the PB 3 quidders went all quiet when their gas was put at a peep at the 2017 GE; at one point there was even an attempt by some to claim that it wasn't really a thing. The opportunistic triumphalism that's encouraging them to crawl out of their holes isn't very attractive.
And is it SNP triumphalism that’s encouraged your attractive side to come out of the woodwork so frequently since Friday morning?
Soz, I shall henceforth try to live up to the standard of civility, reasonableness and the generosity of spirit constantly displayed by yersel.
It used to be decidedly middle-class but is now brushing its clothes barely above the likes of Asda and Tesco. And even Morrisons arguably pips it in some areas now.
Yuk.
The only way to avoid definitely brushing shoulders with the lower orders is to have your groceries delivered. But for heaven's sake remember to select A-B for the class of the delivery driver, or who knows what you may have to put up with?
A lady I met recently told me Ocado had sent her a man from Liverpool! Can you imagine? To be on the safe side, she got the maid to burn all the groceries, and disinfect the fridge afterwards!
It used to be decidedly middle-class but is now brushing its clothes barely above the likes of Asda and Tesco. And even Morrisons arguably pips it in some areas now.
Yuk.
The only way to avoid definitely brushing shoulders with the lower orders is to have your groceries delivered. But for heaven's sake remember to select A-B for the class of the delivery driver, or who knows what you may have to put up with?
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
You're a twat. It's deeply uncivic to interfere in a leadership campaign of your opponents, especially when you are deliberately choosing those you deem the worst candidates.
Along these lines, I always wonder why some states in the US have open primaries. There must be a temptation for some to vote for the worst candidate.
Although there is always the risk they end up winning. Those who voted for Corbyn might have regretted it if he had ended up Prime Minister
I thought cross party voting in US primaries was not uncommon!
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
It used to be decidedly middle-class but is now brushing its clothes barely above the likes of Asda and Tesco. And even Morrisons arguably pips it in some areas now.
Yuk.
The only way to avoid definitely brushing shoulders with the lower orders is to have your groceries delivered. But for heaven's sake remember to select A-B for the class of the delivery driver, or who knows what you may have to put up with?
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
We saw HYUFDs immediate reaction to the prorogation ruling was that political appointment of judges was inevitable, and he clearly captures the tory mood on such matters. Boris is going to go for the courts in a big way - we know he is vindictive by nature.
Perhaps it will give her pause for thought on her gloating.
Yes, her gloating is so egregious the government deciding to undermine the courts is perfectly proportionate a response.
If she wanted to get into politics and creating laws then maybe she should have stood for Parliament?
Clearly you understand absolutely nothing about the common law, the rule of law and have not even noted that the SC ruling was not that of 1 judge but all 9 of them.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
Looking through the wiki pages, there are now 17 counties with only Conservative MPs.
Astounding statistic.
I agree. How could anyone watch cricket and not be riveted?
Do they call it "test" cricket because it "tests" your patience?
Rugby plays tests as well. That’s only a test of your caution if you’re an England supporter at the Welsh end of whatever they call the Millennium Stadium this week.
Anyway all politics aside I will wish you all,a very merry Xmas and from a betting perspective a prosperous new year, am off to Tenerife tomorrow and then a seven day cruise on a Spanish cruise ship which incidentally has also asked all passengers to desist from discussing politics! Hopefully will be back after but hoping to break my addiction to Pb.com after the most exciting four years in UK politics I have ever known.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
It used to be decidedly middle-class but is now brushing its clothes barely above the likes of Asda and Tesco. And even Morrisons arguably pips it in some areas now.
Yuk.
Is there a Waitrose or an M&S close by? If so that is where I would expect to find much of the middle class.
Upper middle class, yes.
Waitrose is great but very pricey. Impossible to go in there for anything without walking out at least £30 poorer.
I have been doing a little research. I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time since 1919 that Labour have not held a seat in Staffordshire and the first time ever that the Tories have held them all.
Considering this is still an industrial and ex-mining County, it does go to show the collapse of traditional Labour support.
It used to be decidedly middle-class but is now brushing its clothes barely above the likes of Asda and Tesco. And even Morrisons arguably pips it in some areas now.
Yuk.
The only way to avoid definitely brushing shoulders with the lower orders is to have your groceries delivered. But for heaven's sake remember to select A-B for the class of the delivery driver, or who knows what you may have to put up with?
Comments
I'm assuming they won't be running a similar system this time?
I think i'd go for RBL/Burgon.
Obviously, this is an outsider view as I'm not really part of that community (I live in a former mining area, but one that's done OKish, and used to live in Newport in Wales, but I grew up elsewhere). I think someone who grew up in or lives in one of those communities and is authentically part of it could have an advantage because they'll have a head start in understanding the problems and may be able to talk about solutions. An outsider, whether working class from elsewhere or a toff can earn the votes if they pay a bit of attention and are seen to be making an effort to understand the problems. There was nothing in the Labour offering for these people (rail travel prices - irrelevant to many, tuition fees - likewise if you/your peers/your children are not going to university and doubly so if those who do go to university move away from hte constituency to where the good jobs are, free broadband - you've other more pressing problems, nationalised utilities with reduced charges - limited relevance if you're nowhere near making ends meet anyway). What these people want to know is where the good quality jobs are going to come from that will breathe life back into their towns and that's a hard problem and not one that any of the parties talked about in any meaningful way.
Similarly in Derbyshire, they had them all in 1997 except Derbyshire Dales and now they only have Derby S and Chesterfield left.
"A simple majority is, as it says on the tin, a majority in its literal terms - 51%."
0/10, see me after class.
An opinion poll doesn't outweigh a referendum result.
Middle class people get cash gifts from their parents and never pay them back
Middle-class people think the world is a garden and are shocked when things go wrong
Working-class people think the world is a jungle and are never shocked when things go wrong
Working class people save up and pay their own deposit when buying a house
Middle class people expect their parents to give them the deposit, or even buy the house for them.
There's a few more as well ("never write a cheque you can't cash, never pack a bag you can't carry") but that'll do to be going on with.
I certainly DO NOT consider RBL/Burgon as the worst candidates.
They would be outstanding. 🤣
And YouGov's tweet appears to show they know what a plurality is.
Blame Ed Miliband for making it possible, not those who do as he asked.
In any case, Labour members are in no position to lecture given they chose the nutcase twice even without help.
The people the far-left despise would definitely give them the very leadership pairing they yearn for.
Which should tell them something.
In theory, that’s not creating a new law.
In practice, however, it is a distinction without a difference.
It is precisely the judges role to define bits of the law which are undefined.
If Parliament is unhappy about the way they've done it, a reasonable response might be to look at those aspects of constitutional law surrounding prorogation and then perhaps legislate on them.
Packing the courts with politically vetted judges is wrong. And a conservative ought to recognise that.
On a related topic, it's been interesting watching certain 'bubbles' on social media. Other commentators on here have pointed out the conspiracy theorists, but what's been more interesting to me is the sharing of recommendations of what to do to feel better in light of the "end of the world" (aka, Tory Landslide).
The recommendations are numerous, but include: donate to food banks, help others less able, visit elderly relatives, reconnect with a friend, feed the birds, etc. Basically, double-down on making a positive difference in our communities.
And it occurs to me that there are a lot of people out there who feel that if - somehow - progressive politicians were swept to power, somehow all of this would be solved, that homelessness and poverty would somehow disappear. I'm not saying everyone feels like this, but difficult to shake the suspicion that - rather than being part of the problem, they just want someone else to solve those things that ruin 'the garden' (as you refer to it).
I wonder if a period of adopting a working class mindset might be a bit of a tonic for these people. After all, one of the best recommendations for anyone riven by anxiety, stress and worry is to focus on helping others?
Volunteering at Citizens Advice has disabused me of that notion. I am continually shocked at how difficult life is for some of our poorer compatriots. Sometimes some of the people we see have not helped themselves but generally they have made the serious error of being bloody unlucky.
There's a lot of interest to be had in considering the seats which were marginal in 1997 which are now safe reasonably safe Lab even as the party's score of seats has halved. Hove, Bristol West, Edgbaston, Chester. But as far as I can think, only one seat which went Lab in 2019 but was Con in 1997: Canterbury. Anyone think of any others?
I do hope however that Labour will reflect on what people are saying and close this stupid loophole. I doubt it though because it’s very lucrative for them and they’re clearly badly in need of money.
Just a solid belief that you can never have too much democracy and therefore there is nothing wrong with expressing a view if invited to do so.
Which the 3 quidders were.
No dressing that up, unless it’s in a Barbour wax jacket, red trousers and brogues of course.
It used to be decidedly middle-class but is now brushing its clothes barely above the likes of Asda and Tesco. And even Morrisons arguably pips it in some areas now.
Yuk.
But as night follows day the local CLP would have been in meltdown getting as many supporters out to boo, picket and heckle any event Boris would have turned up to.
Just sayin'.
What is your opinion on why Labour lost?
Will be interesting to gauge if what Burgon etc are saying is right/wrong/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong
#justsayin'
Waitrose is great but very pricey. Impossible to go in there for anything without walking out at least £30 poorer.