Labour had 13 years to introduce proportional representation. For some bizarre reason they didn't do so. (There was no need for a referendum IMO).
I think any major constitutional change should have a referendum.
I don’t think so. This country has proven its not politically mature enough to deal with referendums.
Because it gave the wrong answer?
The referendum itself was not the problem. The aftermath however...
The aftermath has been the MPs doing their best to defy the leave vote without looking like they are. Boris just got a deal after they said he wouldn't, he tried to pass it and now they won't.
Pity the voters who have given the instruction, not the establishment who won't listen to it.
Yeah you’re just proving my point.
Its OK Max Gallowgate if voting for Tory Swinson in order to ensure a hard Johnson BREXIT wins
If that’s what happens then so be it. If you’re worried maybe Labour should stand aside for the Lib Dems?
Every LD seat is a vote for
Johnson as PM (Hard BREXIT Trump trade Deal with Chlorinated Chicken and US owned /run NHS)
Why would LAB stand aside for a party that is going to side with the Tories after a GE?
Why would I vote for a party lead by Jeremy Corbyn?
2nd Referendum (Remains best chance)
NHS safe from Trump and returned to not for profit
Council Housing Returns giving the young the best chance of an affordable house
Only Anti Austerity Party.
YOU CAN BE CERTAIN THEY WONT GO INTO COALITION WITH Johnson
2nd referendum is also Lib Dem policy.
Lib Dems are in favour of evidence driven policy for the NHS not pure ideology.
Why would I want more council housing? I’d rather more people owned their own houses.
Tories are anti austerity these days. Its in vogue.
Lib Dems are not going to go into coalition with Johnson.
The only way Brexit happens is with a Tory majority government.
The best way to get a Tory majority government is a Dec election.
The only party resisting a Dec election is Labour.
Ergo Labour are the only Remain party. All others have given up.
QED. Algebra.
Unsurprising to anyone that knows them, that the Lib Dems put the prospect of gaining a dozen seats or two above their declared number one priority of stopping Brexit.
I actually believe it is their best and possibly only chance of stopping brexit
Unlike some conservatives I am not 'gung ho' on a conservative majority though of course they will be the largest party. In those circumstances, the opposition will be 100% remain and have the best chance to secure a referendum
I have said this for days, and am pleased the lib dems have woken up to it and a pre Xmas election could result in Brexit on the 1st January 2020 or a delay to mid summer for a second referendum.
I am content on either outcome as this bankrupt parliament, with 51 mps clinging onto seats they won for different parties, now lacks any legitimacy and a December 2020 HOC will reflect the democratic choice taking into account the known options.
Labour had 13 years to introduce proportional representation. For some bizarre reason they didn't do so. (There was no need for a referendum IMO).
I think any major constitutional change should have a referendum.
I don’t think so. This country has proven its not politically mature enough to deal with referendums.
Because it gave the wrong answer?
The referendum itself was not the problem. The aftermath however...
The aftermath has been the MPs doing their best to defy the leave vote without looking like they are. Boris just got a deal after they said he wouldn't, he tried to pass it and now they won't.
Pity the voters who have given the instruction, not the establishment who won't listen to it.
Yeah you’re just proving my point.
Its OK Max Gallowgate if voting for Tory Swinson in order to ensure a hard Johnson BREXIT wins
If that’s what happens then so be it. If you’re worried maybe Labour should stand aside for the Lib Dems?
Every LD seat is a vote for
Johnson as PM (Hard BREXIT Trump trade Deal with Chlorinated Chicken and US owned /run NHS)
Why would LAB stand aside for a party that is going to side with the Tories after a GE?
Why would I vote for a party lead by Jeremy Corbyn?
2nd Referendum (Remains best chance)
NHS safe from Trump and returned to not for profit
Council Housing Returns giving the young the best chance of an affordable house
Only Anti Austerity Party.
YOU CAN BE CERTAIN THEY WONT GO INTO COALITION WITH Johnson
Labour had 13 years to introduce proportional representation. For some bizarre reason they didn't do so. (There was no need for a referendum IMO).
I think any major constitutional change should have a referendum.
I don’t think so. This country has proven its not politically mature enough to deal with referendums.
Because it gave the wrong answer?
The referendum itself was not the problem. The aftermath however...
The aftermath has been the MPs doing their best to defy the leave vote without looking like they are. Boris just got a deal after they said he wouldn't, he tried to pass it and now they won't.
Pity the voters who have given the instruction, not the establishment who won't listen to it.
Yeah you’re just proving my point.
Its OK Max Gallowgate if voting for Tory Swinson in order to ensure a hard Johnson BREXIT wins
If that’s what happens then so be it. If you’re worried maybe Labour should stand aside for the Lib Dems?
Every LD seat is a vote for
Johnson as PM (Hard BREXIT Trump trade Deal with Chlorinated Chicken and US owned /run NHS)
Why would LAB stand aside for a party that is going to side with the Tories after a GE?
Why would I vote for a party lead by Jeremy Corbyn?
2nd Referendum (Remains best chance)
NHS safe from Trump and returned to not for profit
Council Housing Returns giving the young the best chance of an affordable house
Only Anti Austerity Party.
YOU CAN BE CERTAIN THEY WONT GO INTO COALITION WITH Johnson
2nd referendum is also Lib Dem policy.
Lib Dems are in favour of evidence driven policy for the NHS not pure ideology.
Why would I want more council housing? I’d rather more people owned their own houses.
Tories are anti austerity these days. Its in vogue.
Lib Dems are not going to go into coalition with Johnson.
Any more?
I think a lot of Corbyn fans make a big mistake thinking people who want to to vote libdem are all socialists.
It would be bizarre for EU ambassadors to meet before the Commons vote on an election unless they wanted to influence events and this seems like it’s been designed to pull the rug from under Corbyn .
If Remainers had accepted the referendum result with good grace
I find categorising the world into the groups of "Remainers" and "Leavers" to be extremely unhelpful.
But let's step back for a moment.
In the immediate aftermath of the election, there was a genuine acceptance of the result. The polling evidence at the time showed 80+% of people believed the result should be implemented.
What happened? Why did that change?
Well, I think there were three major missteps:
Firstly, was Mrs May's "red lines". Secondly, there was the election. Thirdly, there was the trashing of Mrs May's deal as "not real Brexit".
The first alienated a chunk of the "well we lost, but we're all in this together" bunch. The second lost the Conservatives their majority, and resulted in a more Remain-y parliament. The third appeared to be more about BJ getting into Number Ten than getting Brexit done.
Oh come on. Remainers did not want to accept the result from the get-go. We could have easily countered May's red lines with a clearly backed proposal for soft Brexit. But Remain MPs from the start wanted to overturn it so us pushing for a soft Brexit found we didn't have the numbers. We instead got deliberate sabotage and delaying tactics until there was the opportunity to block it entirely.
Some Remain MPs, certainly, but not all. Remain MPs have been split into many different splinters. And it's worth remembering that Labour MPs tried and failed to defenestrate Corbyn which drove a wedge between some of those splinters within the Labour Party.
If the country were only split between Remain and Leave we wouldn't be in this trouble, but we're split at least six or seven ways, maybe twelve, and so we are.
If we had a leader worth a brass farthing they would be able to bring these different groups together, enough of them to form a majority. Johnson seems to be doing a better job of this than May, but it remains to be seen if it's good enough.
Linke 28 seats AfD 22 seats CDU 21 seats SDP 7 seats Greens 5 seats FDP 5 seats
Good luck getting a majority out that lot.
Would FDP join the Linke?
Doubt it - they are solidly pro-business and for all their moderation the Left isn't really. Two thirds of CDU voters say they'd like to see them join with the Linke, but I can't see that either. Minority government, I think.
It would be bizarre for EU ambassadors to meet before the Commons vote on an election unless they wanted to influence events and this seems like it’s been designed to pull the rug from under Corbyn .
I believe the joint Lib Dem - SNP letter to them has provided the reason they needed and I see no benefit in delaying their obvious decision.
Does anyone think labour can stop a december election now.
They are checkmated and if they had any political sense they would confidently vote for the GE saying they have the policies and will win
Unsurprising to anyone that knows them, that the Lib Dems put the prospect of gaining a dozen seats or two above their declared number one priority of stopping Brexit.
I don’t blame them TBF but let's at least see reality. All the key players are driven above all else by electoral prospects. Brexit means little other than how it impacts that.
I'm not usually Mr Cynical but I think it's appropriate here. Johnson in particular is about absolutely NOTHING bar himself. He's a void.
If Remainers had accepted the referendum result with good grace
I find categorising the world into the groups of "Remainers" and "Leavers" to be extremely unhelpful.
But let's step back for a moment.
In the immediate aftermath of the election, there was a genuine acceptance of the result. The polling evidence at the time showed 80+% of people believed the result should be implemented.
What happened? Why did that change?
Well, I think there were three major missteps:
Firstly, was Mrs May's "red lines". Secondly, there was the election. Thirdly, there was the trashing of Mrs May's deal as "not real Brexit".
The first alienated a chunk of the "well we lost, but we're all in this together" bunch. The second lost the Conservatives their majority, and resulted in a more Remain-y parliament. The third appeared to be more about BJ getting into Number Ten than getting Brexit done.
Oh come on. Remainers did not want to accept the result from the get-go. We could have easily countered May's red lines with a clearly backed proposal for soft Brexit. But Remain MPs from the start wanted to overturn it so us pushing for a soft Brexit found we didn't have the numbers. We instead got deliberate sabotage and delaying tactics until there was the opportunity to block it entirely.
Some Remain MPs, certainly, but not all. Remain MPs have been split into many different splinters. And it's worth remembering that Labour MPs tried and failed to defenestrate Corbyn which drove a wedge between some of those splinters within the Labour Party.
If the country were only split between Remain and Leave we wouldn't be in this trouble, but we're split at least six or seven ways, maybe twelve, and so we are.
If we had a leader worth a brass farthing they would be able to bring these different groups together, enough of them to form a majority. Johnson seems to be doing a better job of this than May, but it remains to be seen if it's good enough.
Things that might bring the country together; War Meteor strike Alien invasion Tragic plotline in soap Death of a minor royal Argentina winning the World Cup
It would be bizarre for EU ambassadors to meet before the Commons vote on an election unless they wanted to influence events and this seems like it’s been designed to pull the rug from under Corbyn .
I'm not surprised, they've obviously noted how preposterous his positioning is.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
If Remainers had accepted the referendum result with good grace
I find categorising the world into the groups of "Remainers" and "Leavers" to be extremely unhelpful.
But let's step back for a moment.
In the immediate aftermath of the election, there was a genuine acceptance of the result. The polling evidence at the time showed 80+% of people believed the result should be implemented.
What happened? Why did that change?
Well, I think there were three major missteps:
Firstly, was Mrs May's "red lines". Secondly, there was the election. Thirdly, there was the trashing of Mrs May's deal as "not real Brexit".
The first alienated a chunk of the "well we lost, but we're all in this together" bunch. The second lost the Conservatives their majority, and resulted in a more Remain-y parliament. The third appeared to be more about BJ getting into Number Ten than getting Brexit done.
Nothing to do with years of non-stop briefings, leaks, and media stories on how chaotic and disastrous it all was then.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But it's hardly a surrender. We may be in a position to force another referendum.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
I can't with any honesty answer that one but I'm guessing the key word in your post is "might". By February Johnson might be in an even stronger position. Labour might have a new leader (which is what I worry about). I'm not really privy to any inside intel as my membership extends little beyond being a passive financial supporter.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
LDs don't have the numbers to stop Brexit as the Second Reading showed.
At least if it goes to an election they have a chance. If the Tories fail to get a majority then there's a mandate for a second referendum.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
They want a GE before the Brexit deal has a chance to go through Parliament.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
Dragging it out since September has already increased Johnson's lead. How much more do you want to increase it by?
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
By February the putative A50 extension would have expired. If the present parliament is allowed to run Brexit will probably be ratified. This is why the LibDems have become so keen on a GE - it at least gives them a fighting chance of halting Brexit.
If Boris Johnson's Deal passes it will likely be due to a Tory majority after the next general election and Boris would then likely extend the transition period to December 2022 if negotiations needed to continue on a FTA
unlikely to extend, I'd say. There will be Farage + the hard men of Brexit in his own party complaining about the fact the UK hasn't really left yet, still paying money. He will be forced into another "do or die" pledge, and if there is a Tory majority then parliament won't save him from his own stupid promises next time around.
Apart from which I believe Johnson himself is ideologically quite happy with No Deal - he'll only avoid it if he's convinced it would make him unpopular.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
I can't with any honesty answer that one but I'm guessing the key word in your post is "might". By February Johnson might be in an even stronger position. Labour might have a new leader (which is what I worry about). I'm not really privy to any inside intel as my membership extends little beyond being a passive financial supporter.
A December election would make it easier for Labour to revive the Tory Little Helper label and be likely to discourage Labour tactical voting.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
I can't with any honesty answer that one but I'm guessing the key word in your post is "might". By February Johnson might be in an even stronger position. Labour might have a new leader (which is what I worry about). I'm not really privy to any inside intel as my membership extends little beyond being a passive financial supporter.
Because it would need another extension. We would have used the one to to 31st January for nothing. Happy EU!
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
You do not have the choice of February or are you ignoring the EU giving the extension to 31st January, almost certainly assisted by the joint Lib Dem - SNP letter to them confirming their desire for a december election, as they have the best chance of a remain supporting HOC post the GE
It is not certain Boris will gain a majority but labour will lose seats to the conseratives, lib dems, and yes the SNP (yes they will)
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
Dragging it out since September has already increased Johnson's lead. How much more do you want to increase it by?
Unlikely that time will be to his advantage - Honeymoon wearing off - Winter flu epidemic & NHS problems could cause him real problems..
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
I can't with any honesty answer that one but I'm guessing the key word in your post is "might". By February Johnson might be in an even stronger position. Labour might have a new leader (which is what I worry about). I'm not really privy to any inside intel as my membership extends little beyond being a passive financial supporter.
A December election would make it easier for Labour to revive the Tory Little Helper label and be likely to discourage Labour tactical voting.
Not sure I follow that. But whatevs. We're going to get the Tory Lite goading whenever the election is and the public seem to want one so I don't see a downside in that respect.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
By February the putative A50 extension would have expired. If the present parliament is allowed to run Brexit will probably be ratified. This is why the LibDems have become so keen on a GE - it at least gives them a fighting chance of halting Brexit.
Not if Johnson pulls the WAIB in response to unwelcome amendments etc. A mid-January Dissolution for a late February Polling Day would probably result in a further extension to - say - 31st March.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
Dragging it out since September has already increased Johnson's lead. How much more do you want to increase it by?
Unlikely that time will be to his advantage - Honeymoon wearing off - Winter flu epidemic & NHS problems could cause him real problems..
Not something you can guarantee at all. In the meantime he'd be able to humiliate the "zombie Parliament" and the opposition who are too scared of an election and are the reason nothing is able to proceed.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Do they suspect they have a chance of being the new DUP in a hung Parliament?
There is no doubt labour and others will be making a big play that the UK-EU treaty on offer could result in no deal, which is possible but unlikely
The problem for Boris's opponents is that that is music to the ears of TBP, and very possibly drives more votes to Boris
Because of the nature of Article 50, the nature of reality and the laws of logic it isn't possible to exclude the possibility of 'no deal' between the UK and the EU at some point. Article 50 deliberately builds in the possibility; any transitional deal can come to an end at some point without a further one, and no single side can make any binding undertaking about a future which is dependent on two sides agreeing. Mr Corbyn and co are asking something of others which reality requires they themselves are equally unable to deliver. This boring but important point is being overlooked.
In hindsight, I increasingly think I was wrong to have backed LEAVE.
Back from Barcelona last night. ...
Ubergeekery-wise, I didn't do as much of the Barcelona Metro as I would have liked, as I was with my mum (holiday was her birthday present!), but I did do line L9 from the Airport to Collblanc...
I was wondering whether you had taken the train across France to make it there, but I see not. Glad you had fun.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
I can't with any honesty answer that one but I'm guessing the key word in your post is "might". By February Johnson might be in an even stronger position. Labour might have a new leader (which is what I worry about). I'm not really privy to any inside intel as my membership extends little beyond being a passive financial supporter.
A December election would make it easier for Labour to revive the Tory Little Helper label and be likely to discourage Labour tactical voting.
Not sure I follow that. But whatevs. We're going to get the Tory Lite goading whenever the election is and the public seem to want one so I don't see a downside in that respect.
I actually think the lib dems strategy is spot on and they could just hold the balance of power
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
You do not have the choice of February or are you ignoring the EU giving the extension to 31st January, almost certainly assisted by the joint Lib Dem - SNP letter to them confirming their desire for a december election, as they have the best chance of a remain supporting HOC post the GE
It is not certain Boris will gain a majority but labour will lose seats to the conseratives, lib dems, and yes the SNP (yes they will)
There is an interesting alternative scenario in which there is no GE. Boris decides to knuckle down and try to ratify Brexit. But the ratification fails, and as 31st January approaches so does the inevitability of a shoot out between Revoke and No Deal,
As Mr. Buttigieg increasingly presents himself to Democrats as a younger, moderate alternative to former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., he is struggling badly to compete against one of Mr. Biden’s strengths: deep connections to black voters. Nowhere is that problem greater than in South Carolina, which votes fourth in the Democratic nomination
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
By February the putative A50 extension would have expired. If the present parliament is allowed to run Brexit will probably be ratified. This is why the LibDems have become so keen on a GE - it at least gives them a fighting chance of halting Brexit.
Not if Johnson pulls the WAIB in response to unwelcome amendments etc. A mid-January Dissolution for a late February Polling Day would probably result in a further extension to - say - 31st March.
You know Justin, the Scots have a great word for most of your posts
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
You do not have the choice of February or are you ignoring the EU giving the extension to 31st January, almost certainly assisted by the joint Lib Dem - SNP letter to them confirming their desire for a december election, as they have the best chance of a remain supporting HOC post the GE
It is not certain Boris will gain a majority but labour will lose seats to the conseratives, lib dems, and yes the SNP (yes they will)
There is an interesting alternative scenario in which there is no GE. Boris decides to knuckle down and try to ratify Brexit. But the ratification fails, and as 31st January approaches so does the inevitability of a shoot out between Revoke and No Deal,
EU should allow an extension without limit and with no conditions and wait, and think about something else.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
I can't with any honesty answer that one but I'm guessing the key word in your post is "might". By February Johnson might be in an even stronger position. Labour might have a new leader (which is what I worry about). I'm not really privy to any inside intel as my membership extends little beyond being a passive financial supporter.
A December election would make it easier for Labour to revive the Tory Little Helper label and be likely to discourage Labour tactical voting.
Not sure I follow that. But whatevs. We're going to get the Tory Lite goading whenever the election is and the public seem to want one so I don't see a downside in that respect.
I actually think the lib dems strategy is spot on and they could just hold the balance of power
Thats's what most of us want here right? Do you want Boris Johnson to win a majority? I certainly don't want Corbyn to win one and bring in the headcases....
There is no doubt labour and others will be making a big play that the UK-EU treaty on offer could result in no deal, which is possible but unlikely
The problem for Boris's opponents is that that is music to the ears of TBP, and very possibly drives more votes to Boris
Because of the nature of Article 50, the nature of reality and the laws of logic it isn't possible to exclude the possibility of 'no deal' between the UK and the EU at some point. Article 50 deliberately builds in the possibility; any transitional deal can come to an end at some point without a further one, and no single side can make any binding undertaking about a future which is dependent on two sides agreeing. Mr Corbyn and co are asking something of others which reality requires they themselves are equally unable to deliver. This boring but important point is being overlooked.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Do they suspect they have a chance of being the new DUP in a hung Parliament?
What i mean by that is they will call the shots on any Coalition/Confidence and Supply arrangements with whosoever.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
You do not have the choice of February or are you ignoring the EU giving the extension to 31st January, almost certainly assisted by the joint Lib Dem - SNP letter to them confirming their desire for a december election, as they have the best chance of a remain supporting HOC post the GE
It is not certain Boris will gain a majority but labour will lose seats to the conseratives, lib dems, and yes the SNP (yes they will)
There is an interesting alternative scenario in which there is no GE. Boris decides to knuckle down and try to ratify Brexit. But the ratification fails, and as 31st January approaches so does the inevitability of a shoot out between Revoke and No Deal,
I hope not.
We need this zombie Parliament gone and now is not soon enough
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
By February the putative A50 extension would have expired. If the present parliament is allowed to run Brexit will probably be ratified. This is why the LibDems have become so keen on a GE - it at least gives them a fighting chance of halting Brexit.
Not if Johnson pulls the WAIB in response to unwelcome amendments etc. A mid-January Dissolution for a late February Polling Day would probably result in a further extension to - say - 31st March.
You know Justin, the Scots have a great word for most of your posts
You are 'havering'
I would be very surprised that they would decline such an extension in the event of an election being announced in mid- January - despite their feelings of exasperation.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
By February the putative A50 extension would have expired. If the present parliament is allowed to run Brexit will probably be ratified. This is why the LibDems have become so keen on a GE - it at least gives them a fighting chance of halting Brexit.
Not if Johnson pulls the WAIB in response to unwelcome amendments etc. A mid-January Dissolution for a late February Polling Day would probably result in a further extension to - say - 31st March.
Yes. If all extensions are in reality soft then anything is possible. But that would create a game without end, with frustration and anger going off the scale. A truly hard deadline is the sine qua non of a definitive solution, imo.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
By February the putative A50 extension would have expired. If the present parliament is allowed to run Brexit will probably be ratified. This is why the LibDems have become so keen on a GE - it at least gives them a fighting chance of halting Brexit.
Not if Johnson pulls the WAIB in response to unwelcome amendments etc. A mid-January Dissolution for a late February Polling Day would probably result in a further extension to - say - 31st March.
You know Justin, the Scots have a great word for most of your posts
You are 'havering'
I would be very surprised that they would decline such an extension in the event of an election being announced in mid- January - despite their feelings of exasperation.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
By February the putative A50 extension would have expired. If the present parliament is allowed to run Brexit will probably be ratified. This is why the LibDems have become so keen on a GE - it at least gives them a fighting chance of halting Brexit.
Not if Johnson pulls the WAIB in response to unwelcome amendments etc. A mid-January Dissolution for a late February Polling Day would probably result in a further extension to - say - 31st March.
Yes. If all extensions are in reality soft then anything is possible. But that would create a game without end, with frustration and anger going off the scale. A truly hard deadline is the sine qua non of a definitive solution imo.
The EU would certainly wish to see the shape of the Government which emerged from such an election.
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
You do not have the choice of February or are you ignoring the EU giving the extension to 31st January, almost certainly assisted by the joint Lib Dem - SNP letter to them confirming their desire for a december election, as they have the best chance of a remain supporting HOC post the GE
It is not certain Boris will gain a majority but labour will lose seats to the conseratives, lib dems, and yes the SNP (yes they will)
There is an interesting alternative scenario in which there is no GE. Boris decides to knuckle down and try to ratify Brexit. But the ratification fails, and as 31st January approaches so does the inevitability of a shoot out between Revoke and No Deal,
I hope not.
We need this zombie Parliament gone and now is not soon enough
This parliament is truly wretched. But Boris does risk losing everything by seeking an early dissolution. I wonder which would be left standing in a shoot out between Revoke and No Deal.
In hindsight, I increasingly think I was wrong to have backed LEAVE.
Back from Barcelona last night. ...
Ubergeekery-wise, I didn't do as much of the Barcelona Metro as I would have liked, as I was with my mum (holiday was her birthday present!), but I did do line L9 from the Airport to Collblanc...
I was wondering whether you had taken the train across France to make it there, but I see not. Glad you had fun.
Thanks, maybe take the train next time! Was so disappointed the funicular up to the Tibidabo Cgurch was out of action, and will be out of action "for a year or so" according to local tourist board. I saw the trackbed from just below the church, just bare - no tracks at the moment!
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
You do not have the choice of February or are you ignoring the EU giving the extension to 31st January, almost certainly assisted by the joint Lib Dem - SNP letter to them confirming their desire for a december election, as they have the best chance of a remain supporting HOC post the GE
It is not certain Boris will gain a majority but labour will lose seats to the conseratives, lib dems, and yes the SNP (yes they will)
There is an interesting alternative scenario in which there is no GE. Boris decides to knuckle down and try to ratify Brexit. But the ratification fails, and as 31st January approaches so does the inevitability of a shoot out between Revoke and No Deal,
I hope not.
We need this zombie Parliament gone and now is not soon enough
"Zombie Parliament" is just the latest spin from Cummings. Bozo had a majority of 3 in August. It has been demolished by his actions.
Basically, a PM needs to be able to cajole and finesse his members, not ride roughshod over them.
From The Guardian - 'Britain has no need of an early general election. It needs to get this phase of Brexit sorted first. This parliament was elected to do that. It is the fault of the May and Johnson governments, not of parliament, that it has been so difficult. Mr Johnson’s intemperate goading undoubtedly make things worse. But it is the point of parliament to keep him in check. MPs are making a good job of that. If the ghost of parliaments past could join Monday’s debate it might even say to them: In the name of God, stay, and finish the job.'
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
You do not have the choice of February or are you ignoring the EU giving the extension to 31st January, almost certainly assisted by the joint Lib Dem - SNP letter to them confirming their desire for a december election, as they have the best chance of a remain supporting HOC post the GE
It is not certain Boris will gain a majority but labour will lose seats to the conseratives, lib dems, and yes the SNP (yes they will)
There is an interesting alternative scenario in which there is no GE. Boris decides to knuckle down and try to ratify Brexit. But the ratification fails, and as 31st January approaches so does the inevitability of a shoot out between Revoke and No Deal,
I hope not.
We need this zombie Parliament gone and now is not soon enough
"Zombie Parliament" is just the latest spin from Cummings. Bozo had a majority of 3 in August. It has been demolished by his actions.
Basically, a PM needs to be able to cajole and finesse his members, not ride roughshod over them.
Could you tell us how you would 'cajole and finesse' Dominic Grieve, Steve Baker and the DUP into simultaneously voting for a WDA ?
From The Guardian - 'Britain has no need of an early general election. It needs to get this phase of Brexit sorted first. This parliament was elected to do that. It is the fault of the May and Johnson governments, not of parliament, that it has been so difficult. Mr Johnson’s intemperate goading undoubtedly make things worse. But it is the point of parliament to keep him in check. MPs are making a good job of that. If the ghost of parliaments past could join Monday’s debate it might even say to them: In the name of God, stay, and finish the job.'
More bullshit than their article on why thomas the tank engine is every -ist under the sun.
From The Guardian - 'Britain has no need of an early general election. It needs to get this phase of Brexit sorted first. This parliament was elected to do that. It is the fault of the May and Johnson governments, not of parliament, that it has been so difficult. Mr Johnson’s intemperate goading undoubtedly make things worse. But it is the point of parliament to keep him in check. MPs are making a good job of that. If the ghost of parliaments past could join Monday’s debate it might even say to them: In the name of God, stay, and finish the job.'
I wonder if their editorial would have been the same if remain parties were riding high in the polls?
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
You do not have the choice of February or are you ignoring the EU giving the extension to 31st January, almost certainly assisted by the joint Lib Dem - SNP letter to them confirming their desire for a december election, as they have the best chance of a remain supporting HOC post the GE
It is not certain Boris will gain a majority but labour will lose seats to the conseratives, lib dems, and yes the SNP (yes they will)
There is an interesting alternative scenario in which there is no GE. Boris decides to knuckle down and try to ratify Brexit. But the ratification fails, and as 31st January approaches so does the inevitability of a shoot out between Revoke and No Deal,
I hope not.
We need this zombie Parliament gone and now is not soon enough
"Zombie Parliament" is just the latest spin from Cummings. Bozo had a majority of 3 in August. It has been demolished by his actions.
Basically, a PM needs to be able to cajole and finesse his members, not ride roughshod over them.
Boris never had a majority.
May never had a majority from MV1 onwards.
Pretending there's a majority doesn't mean there was one.
"Zombie Parliament" is just the latest spin from Cummings. Bozo had a majority of 3 in August. It has been demolished by his actions.
Basically, a PM needs to be able to cajole and finesse his members, not ride roughshod over them.
"We need this zombie Parliament gone".... -hmmm--- heard of something like this...."get Brett done"
I was surprised too that one of our more sensible posters has resorted to mimicking Cummings inspired, anti democratic and quite dangerous populist slogans.....
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
You do not have the choice of February or are you ignoring the EU giving the extension to 31st January, almost certainly assisted by the joint Lib Dem - SNP letter to them confirming their desire for a december election, as they have the best chance of a remain supporting HOC post the GE
It is not certain Boris will gain a majority but labour will lose seats to the conseratives, lib dems, and yes the SNP (yes they will)
There is an interesting alternative scenario in which there is no GE. Boris decides to knuckle down and try to ratify Brexit. But the ratification fails, and as 31st January approaches so does the inevitability of a shoot out between Revoke and No Deal,
I hope not.
We need this zombie Parliament gone and now is not soon enough
"Zombie Parliament" is just the latest spin from Cummings. Bozo had a majority of 3 in August. It has been demolished by his actions.
Basically, a PM needs to be able to cajole and finesse his members, not ride roughshod over them.
Could you tell us how you would 'cajole and finesse' Dominic Grieve, Steve Baker and the DUP into simultaneously voting for a WDA ?
I hope Johnson does accept the SNP/LD challenge and we have the December election.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
Picking up a good number of seats is best case scenario realistically. We're intelligent enought to realise that going from 19 seats to 320 or so may not be possible - to put it mildly. You can say that you want to win, who wouldn't, but people do look hard headedly at what is achievable and what is not. Which is why all the pearl rattling about the revoke policy is so silly. If the LDs won a majority at the next election, which is what would be required to straight revoke, that would be an earthquake that would put even 2016 in the shade. And I say that as a member.
But why are they so keen on December rather than - say - February? Johnson's failings might be a fair bit more obvious by that time and potential LD gains at their expense somewhat more extensive.
You do not have the choice of February or are you ignoring the EU giving the extension to 31st January, almost certainly assisted by the joint Lib Dem - SNP letter to them confirming their desire for a december election, as they have the best chance of a remain supporting HOC post the GE
It is not certain Boris will gain a majority but labour will lose seats to the conseratives, lib dems, and yes the SNP (yes they will)
There is an interesting alternative scenario in which there is no GE. Boris decides to knuckle down and try to ratify Brexit. But the ratification fails, and as 31st January approaches so does the inevitability of a shoot out between Revoke and No Deal,
I hope not.
We need this zombie Parliament gone and now is not soon enough
"Zombie Parliament" is just the latest spin from Cummings. Bozo had a majority of 3 in August. It has been demolished by his actions.
Basically, a PM needs to be able to cajole and finesse his members, not ride roughshod over them.
Boris never had a majority.
May never had a majority from MV1 onwards.
Pretending there's a majority doesn't mean there was one.
From The Guardian - 'Britain has no need of an early general election. It needs to get this phase of Brexit sorted first. This parliament was elected to do that. It is the fault of the May and Johnson governments, not of parliament, that it has been so difficult. Mr Johnson’s intemperate goading undoubtedly make things worse. But it is the point of parliament to keep him in check. MPs are making a good job of that. If the ghost of parliaments past could join Monday’s debate it might even say to them: In the name of God, stay, and finish the job.'
They have a way to finish the job: Ratify the deal. If they genuinely wanted to do that there'd be no need for an extension.
Is that what you and the Guardian want? Or do you want more delay and dither in the hope that something may turn up down the road that makes Boris and Brexit unpopular before the job is finished?
I was surprised too that one of our more sensible posters has resorted to mimicking Cummings inspired, anti democratic and quite dangerous populist slogans.....
If you mean "Big G", then "sensible" no longer applies. He went away on a cruise and must have picked up some kind of brain parasite from an undercooked prawn because he's been utterly bonkers since he came back.
From The Guardian - 'Britain has no need of an early general election. It needs to get this phase of Brexit sorted first. This parliament was elected to do that. It is the fault of the May and Johnson governments, not of parliament, that it has been so difficult. Mr Johnson’s intemperate goading undoubtedly make things worse. But it is the point of parliament to keep him in check. MPs are making a good job of that. If the ghost of parliaments past could join Monday’s debate it might even say to them: In the name of God, stay, and finish the job.'
More bullshit than their article on why thomas the tank engine is every -ist under the sun.
Comments
Police has been called back.
Lib Dems are in favour of evidence driven policy for the NHS not pure ideology.
Why would I want more council housing? I’d rather more people owned their own houses.
Tories are anti austerity these days. Its in vogue.
Lib Dems are not going to go into coalition with Johnson.
Any more?
Unlike some conservatives I am not 'gung ho' on a conservative majority though of course they will be the largest party. In those circumstances, the opposition will be 100% remain and have the best chance to secure a referendum
I have said this for days, and am pleased the lib dems have woken up to it and a pre Xmas election could result in Brexit on the 1st January 2020 or a delay to mid summer for a second referendum.
I am content on either outcome as this bankrupt parliament, with 51 mps clinging onto seats they won for different parties, now lacks any legitimacy and a December 2020 HOC will reflect the democratic choice taking into account the known options.
The best way to get a Remain majority government is a Dec election.
The only party resisting a Dec election is Labour.
The only opposition party with whip holders voting for Brexit is Labour.
Ergo Labour are not a Remain party. They have given up.
QED. Algebra.
They why oppose it for the General?
If the country were only split between Remain and Leave we wouldn't be in this trouble, but we're split at least six or seven ways, maybe twelve, and so we are.
If we had a leader worth a brass farthing they would be able to bring these different groups together, enough of them to form a majority. Johnson seems to be doing a better job of this than May, but it remains to be seen if it's good enough.
Does anyone think labour can stop a december election now.
They are checkmated and if they had any political sense they would confidently vote for the GE saying they have the policies and will win
I'm not usually Mr Cynical but I think it's appropriate here. Johnson in particular is about absolutely NOTHING bar himself. He's a void.
War
Meteor strike
Alien invasion
Tragic plotline in soap
Death of a minor royal
Argentina winning the World Cup
Momentum National Coordinating Group member. And P&L CLP Vice-Chair (Membership)
The problem for Boris's opponents is that that is music to the ears of TBP, and very possibly drives more votes to Boris
But I must admit I am still confused as to why the LDs want this. The SNP I understand as they see themselves making significant gains in Scotland and providing a springboard for another Indy referendum.
But short of gaining a few seats I don't see what the Lib Dems have to gain from this. I can't believe they are daft enough to think they will actually win so it looks as if they are finally surrendering on Brexit.
Genuine question, what am I missing here?
But it's hardly a surrender. We may be in a position to force another referendum.
At least if it goes to an election they have a chance. If the Tories fail to get a majority then there's a mandate for a second referendum.
Apart from which I believe Johnson himself is ideologically quite happy with No Deal - he'll only avoid it if he's convinced it would make him unpopular.
Happy EU!
It is not certain Boris will gain a majority but labour will lose seats to the conseratives, lib dems, and yes the SNP (yes they will)
Tories ahead on 49% in the South, 46% in Wales and 40% in the Midlands and holding steady on 29% in Scotland.
Labour ahead on 39% in the North and 38% in London, the SNP ahead in Scotland on 45%.
Tories holding onto 75% of their 2017 vote but Labour only holding onto 63% of their 2017 vote.
Tories now ahead with 35-44s unlike 2017 on 34% to 30% for Labour. Labour only lead with 18-34s.
61% of Leavers are voting Tory with the Brexit Party next favoured on 19% but only 39% of Remainers are voting Labour with 29% now voting LD.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-25th-october-2019/
You are 'havering'
We need this zombie Parliament gone and now is not soon enough
Well thats labour brexit policy down the tubes.
Basically, a PM needs to be able to cajole and finesse his members, not ride roughshod over them.
'Britain has no need of an early general election. It needs to get this phase of Brexit sorted first. This parliament was elected to do that. It is the fault of the May and Johnson governments, not of parliament, that it has been so difficult. Mr Johnson’s intemperate goading undoubtedly make things worse. But it is the point of parliament to keep him in check. MPs are making a good job of that. If the ghost of parliaments past could join Monday’s debate it might even say to them: In the name of God, stay, and finish the job.'
"One does not decide the truth of a thought according to whether it is Leave or Remain."
May never had a majority from MV1 onwards.
Pretending there's a majority doesn't mean there was one.
This parliament has decided that the three realistic options for moving forward are:
1. Voting through the treaty agreed by the EU.
2. Voting for a GE
3. Opposition deciding to exit on WTO terms.
Since 1 appears unacceptable and Revoke/R2 have been given up on by even the ultra-remainers in parliament it leaves 2 or 3.
"Zombie Parliament" is just the latest spin from Cummings. Bozo had a majority of 3 in August. It has been demolished by his actions.
Basically, a PM needs to be able to cajole and finesse his members, not ride roughshod over them.
"We need this zombie Parliament gone".... -hmmm--- heard of something like this...."get Brett done"
I was surprised too that one of our more sensible posters has resorted to mimicking Cummings inspired, anti democratic and quite dangerous populist slogans.....
Boris now has only 288.
Is that what you and the Guardian want? Or do you want more delay and dither in the hope that something may turn up down the road that makes Boris and Brexit unpopular before the job is finished?
Not surprisingly because there isn't one.
Boris has never had a majority when it comes to votes in parliament.