If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
Mason is just the first to go super-critical.
Maugham will activate his Big Book Of Lawyers Tricks And Bedtime Tales
Your (copyright: all leavers) kidding, right?
A deal which preserves the spirit of the GFA and has the effect of making Irish unification more likely and which IIRC was outlawed by one vote or another and was even rejected by Theresa May, she of No. 10 parish a while ago, and which seems very sensible and keeps us close to the EU necessarily to keep the DUP from exploding (sadly literally) but begs again the was it all worth it question?
That deal is going to anger remainers?
You're (copyright: all remainers) having a laugh.
Amongst many other errors, you are wrong in saying this increases the chances of Irish reunification.
IF the Norns are offered the suggested deal, it means they get the advantages of the EU Single Market and CU AND ALSO UK nationality, citizenship, welfare state and trade deals; they will have an unbelievably sweet arrangement and their economy/investment will boom. They won't ever want to change it.
Irish unity will become a distant dream.
But will the DUP have the wits to grasp this?
I believe the DUP plan was to impose a hard border and entrench division between Northern Ireland and the Republic, so anything that erases that division looks like a defeat to them.
Big_G said: "If a deal is agreed labour will be running very scared of an election"
I think we have danced round this already. If a deal - Farage say BINO - BXT split Tory vote - Lab have decent chance of getting most seats in GE
If Boris pulls this off, and it is a huge if, it will be his Falklands moment
I doubt it BigG, I dispise him and will not vote for him and know other lifelong Tories who will do he same. One is 98! You dont get more Tory than her! BJ is a total prat, who puts himself first and country second. Don't be seduced into supporting a wrong one! You have the experience in life to know something is too good to be true!
And the alternative is Corbyn. No thank you
Fair enough, i thought you had quit the Tories after 50 years of membership? Personally, I cannot vote for him -ever!
'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UK
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executive
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to do
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.
If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
Mason is just the first to go super-critical.
Maugham will activate his Big Book Of Lawyers Tricks And Bedtime Tales
Your (copyright: all leavers) kidding, right?
A deal which preserves the spirit of the GFA and has the effect of making Irish unification more likely and which IIRC was outlawed by one vote or another and was even rejected by Theresa May, she of No. 10 parish a while ago, and which seems very sensible and keeps us close to the EU necessarily to keep the DUP from exploding (sadly literally) but begs again the was it all worth it question?
That deal is going to anger remainers?
You're (copyright: all remainers) having a laugh.
Amongst many other errors, you are wrong in saying this increases the chances of Irish reunification.
IF the Norns are offered the suggested deal, it means they get the advantages of the EU Single Market and CU AND ALSO UK nationality, citizenship, welfare state and trade deals; they will have an unbelievably sweet arrangement and their economy/investment will boom. They won't ever want to change it.
Irish unity will become a distant dream.
But will the DUP have the wits to grasp this?
I believe the DUP plan was to impose a hard border and entrench division between Northern Ireland and the Republic, so anything that erases that division looks like a defeat to them.
Which is ridiculous. An Irish hard border would be so hated, a bunch of moderate unionists would move to unification to get rid of it.
If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
Mason is just the first to go super-critical.
Maugham will activate his Big Book Of Lawyers Tricks And Bedtime Tales
Your (copyright: all leavers) kidding, right?
A deal which preserves the spirit of the GFA and has the effect of making Irish unification more likely and which IIRC was outlawed by one vote or another and was even rejected by Theresa May, she of No. 10 parish a while ago, and which seems very sensible and keeps us close to the EU necessarily to keep the DUP from exploding (sadly literally) but begs again the was it all worth it question?
That deal is going to anger remainers?
You're (copyright: all remainers) having a laugh.
Amongst many other errors, you are wrong in saying this increases the chances of Irish reunification.
IF the Norns are offered the suggested deal, it means they get the advantages of the EU Single Market and CU AND ALSO UK nationality, citizenship, welfare state and trade deals; they will have an unbelievably sweet arrangement and their economy/investment will boom. They won't ever want to change it.
Irish unity will become a distant dream.
But will the DUP have the wits to grasp this?
Irish unificaiton is not about economics. It is about identity. As a Brexiteer you should know that. When most people in Northern Ireland consider themselves Irish - and the demographics suggest that will happen reasonably quickly - then that's us out of there.
If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
Mason is just the first to go super-critical.
Maugham will activate his Big Book Of Lawyers Tricks And Bedtime Tales
Your (copyright: all leavers) kidding, right?
A deal which preserves the spirit of the GFA and has the effect of making Irish unification more likely and which IIRC was outlawed by one vote or another and was even rejected by Theresa May, she of No. 10 parish a while ago, and which seems very sensible and keeps us close to the EU necessarily to keep the DUP from exploding (sadly literally) but begs again the was it all worth it question?
That deal is going to anger remainers?
You're (copyright: all remainers) having a laugh.
Amongst many other errors, you are wrong in saying this increases the chances of Irish reunification.
IF the Norns are offered the suggested deal, it means they get the advantages of the EU Single Market and CU AND ALSO UK nationality, citizenship, welfare state and trade deals; they will have an unbelievably sweet arrangement and their economy/investment will boom. They won't ever want to change it.
Irish unity will become a distant dream.
But will the DUP have the wits to grasp this?
Hmm not exactly Tyson Beckford levels of insight. But to be expected I suppose.
The island of Ireland will become a unified entity regulation-wise. That is a huge step forward in the aspirations of unification.
Another non runner seems to be picking up some steam in the POTUS race, Michael Bloomberg at 70/90 for Democrat nominee. I'm not backing him, but a few puff pieces and a couple of tweets and he'll be backed into 30-1 before you can say David Miliband's your uncle. One to keep an eye on and possibly lay later.
'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UK
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executive
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to do
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.
Okay, thank you. But surely leaving it open in Ireland (sensu lato) also allows free mvoement there anyway de facto, so why not elsewhere? Sorry - this is really puzzling me, especially as immigration wa ssupposedly what it's all about in part. Why is it OK to have furriners coming in ad lib in Ireland and not, say, Heathrow?
It seems like Johnson is following the Nixon to China strategy of agreeing to a deal that goes further towards the EU's demands than the one he voted against twice a few months ago. Can he bring the ultra-Leavers with him? He will have to I think, because his strategy seems to be to tilt towards a more Tory favourable PD, which will limit Labour support. All a long way from dyimg in a ditch, somewhat unsurprisingly.
I cannot see the revised PD surviving contact with the real world. Once we are out, the Tories do have the chance to start being Tories again. And that will mean listening to business.
Boris has activity antagonised and insulted Labour MPs. Because of that they will be less likely to ride to his rescue or participate in his political games. That dire Geoffrey Cox speech casts a long shadow.
How very childish of them. The merits or not of a deal exist regardless if BoJo the Clown and his warm up act say bad things.
Anyone using that as an excuse to not vote for a deal is playing a stupid political game of their own and can claim no high ground, which they are attempting if they justify on that basis rather than just admit if they can or cannot support what is before them. Just say no if they want, its not hard.
'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UK
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executive
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to do
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.
Another non runner seems to be picking up some steam in the POTUS race, Michael Bloomberg at 70/90 for Democrat nominee. I'm not backing him, but a few puff pieces and a couple of tweets and he'll be backed into 30-1 before you can say David Miliband's your uncle. One to keep an eye on and possibly lay later.
I heard an interview with him and he was pretty clear about not standing. He said he'd done polling and, if I remember rightly, it was a great big no from the public.
This isn't news. The Leo-Boris deal was based on NI being in the UK customs territory but with checks and administration for the whole island. They get the benefit of frictionless trade with the Republic but subsidies from UK trade deals.
A "customs border in the Irish Sea" would suggest it would be much more severe than what you're suggesting, but admittedly it's just one report right now.
De-dramatised checks would not be much more than the existing checks that have to happen for things like agriculture right now. The crux of the deal resembles the thinking behind the Good Friday Agreement. Legally the province is entirely in the British customs area, but de facto there is a mix: UK tariffs but EU checks. In terms of status, I think the legal situation and the tax situation are far more important than non-intrusive checks.
If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
Mason is just the first to go super-critical.
Maugham will activate his Big Book Of Lawyers Tricks And Bedtime Tales
Your (copyright: all leavers) kidding, right?
A deal which preserves the spirit of the GFA and has the effect of making Irish unification more likely and which IIRC was outlawed by one vote or another and was even rejected by Theresa May, she of No. 10 parish a while ago, and which seems very sensible and keeps us close to the EU necessarily to keep the DUP from exploding (sadly literally) but begs again the was it all worth it question?
That deal is going to anger remainers?
You're (copyright: all remainers) having a laugh.
Amongst many other errors, you are wrong in saying this increases the chances of Irish reunification.
IF the Norns are offered the suggested deal, it means they get the advantages of the EU Single Market and CU AND ALSO UK nationality, citizenship, welfare state and trade deals; they will have an unbelievably sweet arrangement and their economy/investment will boom. They won't ever want to change it.
Irish unity will become a distant dream.
But will the DUP have the wits to grasp this?
Irish unificaiton is not about economics. It is about identity. As a Brexiteer you should know that. When most people in Northern Ireland consider themselves Irish - and the demographics suggest that will happen reasonably quickly - then that's us out of there.
except of course thats not whats happening, Most nordies dont see themselves as either Irish or British but Neither
It seems like Johnson is following the Nixon to China strategy of agreeing to a deal that goes further towards the EU's demands than the one he voted against twice a few months ago. Can he bring the ultra-Leavers with him? He will have to I think, because his strategy seems to be to tilt towards a more Tory favourable PD, which will limit Labour support. All a long way from dyimg in a ditch, somewhat unsurprisingly.
The deal keeps Northern Ireland legally in the UK Customs situation and also gives them a democratic veto over continued membership. Clearly that is closer to DUP demands. Meanwhile GB is out entirely, which is closer to ERG demands.
It seems like Johnson is following the Nixon to China strategy of agreeing to a deal that goes further towards the EU's demands than the one he voted against twice a few months ago. Can he bring the ultra-Leavers with him? He will have to I think, because his strategy seems to be to tilt towards a more Tory favourable PD, which will limit Labour support. All a long way from dyimg in a ditch, somewhat unsurprisingly.
The deal keeps Northern Ireland legally in the UK Customs situation and also gives them a democratic veto over continued membership. Clearly that is closer to DUP demands. Meanwhile GB is out entirely, which is closer to ERG demands.
if the Ulster politicians had any sense theyd be using the duality to their advantage.
Unfortunately DUP and Sinn Fein have only one note in their songsheet.
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.
Blah blah blah violence if we don't get our way blah blah blah
'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UK
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executive
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to do
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.
Okay, thank you. But surely leaving it open in Ireland (sensu lato) also allows free mvoement there anyway de facto, so why not elsewhere? Sorry - this is really puzzling me, especially as immigration wa ssupposedly what it's all about in part. Why is it OK to have furriners coming in ad lib in Ireland and not, say, Heathrow?
It really is about time you people stopped conflating free movement with freedom to travel. They are not the same thing.
If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
Mason is just the first to go super-critical.
Maugham will activate his Big Book Of Lawyers Tricks And Bedtime Tales
Your (copyright: all leavers) kidding, right?
A deal which preserves the spirit of the GFA and has the effect of making Irish unification more likely and which IIRC was outlawed by one vote or another and was even rejected by Theresa May, she of No. 10 parish a while ago, and which seems very sensible and keeps us close to the EU necessarily to keep the DUP from exploding (sadly literally) but begs again the was it all worth it question?
That deal is going to anger remainers?
You're (copyright: all remainers) having a laugh.
Amongst many other errors, you are wrong in saying this increases the chances of Irish reunification.
IF the Norns are offered the suggested deal, it means they get the advantages of the EU Single Market and CU AND ALSO UK nationality, citizenship, welfare state and trade deals; they will have an unbelievably sweet arrangement and their economy/investment will boom. They won't ever want to change it.
Irish unity will become a distant dream.
But will the DUP have the wits to grasp this?
Irish unificaiton is not about economics. It is about identity. As a Brexiteer you should know that. When most people in Northern Ireland consider themselves Irish - and the demographics suggest that will happen reasonably quickly - then that's us out of there.
except of course thats not whats happening, Most nordies dont see themselves as either Irish or British but Neither
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.
Blah blah blah violence if we don't get our way blah blah blah
Blah blah blah violence in Northern Ireland if we Leave blah blah blah
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.
Blah blah blah violence if we don't get our way blah blah blah
Do not worry too much. Somebody will deny it in a minute and blame it on Remainers....
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.
Blah blah blah violence if we don't get our way blah blah blah
Blah blah blah violence in Northern Ireland if we Leave blah blah blah
But I haven't said that. And you love talking about violence.
Incredible what-about-ism. It reminds me of when uefa fined bendtner more for wearing paddy power boxer shorts than the FA of a nation whose fans went full on racist chant-athon.
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.
Blah blah blah violence if we don't get our way blah blah blah
Blah blah blah violence in Northern Ireland if we Leave blah blah blah
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.
Blah blah blah violence if we don't get our way blah blah blah
Do not worry too much. Somebody will deny it in a minute and blame it on Remainers....
'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UK
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executive
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to do
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.
Okay, thank you. But surely leaving it open in Ireland (sensu lato) also allows free mvoement there anyway de facto, so why not elsewhere? Sorry - this is really puzzling me, especially as immigration wa ssupposedly what it's all about in part. Why is it OK to have furriners coming in ad lib in Ireland and not, say, Heathrow?
It really is about time you people stopped conflating free movement with freedom to travel. They are not the same thing.
Not legally. But I did say de facto.
So if one only has to stroll along a lane in Ireland to escape basic passport controls? (OK, we may get controls at Larne - which would answer my question.)
Another non runner seems to be picking up some steam in the POTUS race, Michael Bloomberg at 70/90 for Democrat nominee. I'm not backing him, but a few puff pieces and a couple of tweets and he'll be backed into 30-1 before you can say David Miliband's your uncle. One to keep an eye on and possibly lay later.
I think realistically Thursday 5th December is the last possible date for an election until late February/early March.
When would the election have to be called by for 5th December?
Via a vote of no confidence? Thursday.
Via a 2/3rds vote? Halloween.
Thanks. So basically if an election isn't agreed by 1st November that's it until the end of Febaury/early March.
It's not at all obvious to me that we're on the brink of an election, nor that Christmas is the only logistical impediment to having one this year.
+1 if Boris is forced to extend he will want an election far less than anyone else does. Boris's window of opportunity will have completely disappeared until we have actually left.
On the other hand, if the Panelbase polls become typical, Labour might be keen to move a VNOC.
See the thread I've just posted - Labour really don't want an election - they need a new leader first
Maybe - but it is worth recalling that 3% Tory leads only started to appear in the final week of the 2017 campaign. Governments also tend to lose ground in the main campaign period.
I don't think that last sentence is true in general. For the most of a government's term that party drops in the polls, partly because any government needs to make some unpopular decisions, and partly because people like complaining about the government.
When the election comes the voters start to look at the comparison, between the two main parties and many who voted for the government last time start to think that that lot aren't so bad after all. That and the government tends to give away some swing voter friendly sweeteners.
It was true in the elections of 1959 - 1964 - 1966 - 1970 - both 1974 elections - 1987 - 2001 - and 2017. It was not true in 1992 and 2015 - in both cases subsequent enquiries revealed methodological issues. Note - I am referring to the formal campaign period which commences with the election announcement.
Another helot speaks. They parted company at the third meaningful vote.
Threatening withdrawal of the whip doesn't look very smart, given the Brexit party will be sniffing around any MPs who are made an example of on the Leavey wing.
'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UK
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executive
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to do
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.
Okay, thank you. But surely leaving it open in Ireland (sensu lato) also allows free mvoement there anyway de facto, so why not elsewhere? Sorry - this is really puzzling me, especially as immigration wa ssupposedly what it's all about in part. Why is it OK to have furriners coming in ad lib in Ireland and not, say, Heathrow?
It really is about time you people stopped conflating free movement with freedom to travel. They are not the same thing.
Not legally. But I did say de facto.
So if one only has to stroll along a lane in Ireland to escape basic passport controls? (OK, we may get controls at Larne - which would answer my question.)
So according to Wee Jimmie Krankie there will be no fracking in Scotland, because fossil fuels are bad.
Wow it will be interesting to see how an independent Scotland manages without North Sea Oil when she logically closes that industry down for the same reasons...
FFS what a joke
YOU half witted cretin , we don't get a penny from North Sea Oil , it was all stolen by Westminster and the shysters tell us it is losing money now. You morons might be happy with tremors, shit water supplies etc, we are happy to have no fracking ever.
Yes, but...an essential part of the economic case for Indy is North sea oil and gas. Thousands in the NE are employed in the sector. SNP are hopelessly conflicted on whether to support it or not. Patrick Harvie's Greens - who SNP rely on - are adamantly against the sector. Banning fracking on fossil fuel grounds is sending a message to a lot of people who don't want to hear it and will vote against it. Its a conundrum.
Not at all. It's like the difference between quarrying Arthur's Seat [big hill in central Edinburgh, though I'm pretty sure you know it, and yes they tried to do it] and quarrying somewhere out in the Lothian countryside. Doesn't bear on the pros and cons of quarrying in general.
Not really following that analogy. The problem, surely, is whether burnishing green credentials is worth throwing a hugely important business sector under the bus. May not play well in NE which is already unimpressed by the possibility of a sell-out of the fishermen to the EU (in the event of IndyRef).
So according to Wee Jimmie Krankie there will be no fracking in Scotland, because fossil fuels are bad.
Wow it will be interesting to see how an independent Scotland manages without North Sea Oil when she logically closes that industry down for the same reasons...
FFS what a joke
YOU half witted cretin , we don't get a penny from North Sea Oil , it was all stolen by Westminster and the shysters tell us it is losing money now. You morons might be happy with tremors, shit water supplies etc, we are happy to have no fracking ever.
Yes, but...an essential part of the economic case for Indy is North sea oil and gas. Thousands in the NE are employed in the sector. SNP are hopelessly conflicted on whether to support it or not. Patrick Harvie's Greens - who SNP rely on - are adamantly against the sector. Banning fracking on fossil fuel grounds is sending a message to a lot of people who don't want to hear it and will vote against it. Its a conundrum.
Rubbish, the majority are against fracking , we will see what help the Tories give their pals in Aberdeen. Also in what world do you exist if you think the SNP rely on the Greens, they are a bunch of list losers.
The 'pals' in Aberdeen hate fracking. Not the same companies and unfortunately not the same rules and protections.
Another helot speaks. They parted company at the third meaningful vote.
Threatening withdrawal of the whip doesn't look very smart, given the Brexit party will be sniffing around any MPs who are made an example of on the Leavey wing.
Yeah but if the outcome is a multi-party hostage swap whereby the Conservative Party loses Mark Francois and Steve Baker in return for getting back David Gauke and Phil Hammond, it would be a spiffing deal.
He added, "Looking back I could have played it differently. Won a few more moments who can tell. But it took time to understand the man. Now at least I know I know him well. He needs his fantasy and freedom..."
He needs to be told what he thinks before he can tell us
He is HYUFD best mate
I am sorry Big_G, but you are just as bad. You constantly rail against various Tory positions and declaim how terrible and un-conservative it is then, a few weeks later it is "I will support this policy". It seems like you will support anything from Party Central.
Oh well.... I guess that is what being a party loyalist is all about.
'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UK
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executive
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to do
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.
Okay, thank you. But surely leaving it open in Ireland (sensu lato) also allows free mvoement there anyway de facto, so why not elsewhere? Sorry - this is really puzzling me, especially as immigration wa ssupposedly what it's all about in part. Why is it OK to have furriners coming in ad lib in Ireland and not, say, Heathrow?
It really is about time you people stopped conflating free movement with freedom to travel. They are not the same thing.
Not legally. But I did say de facto.
So if one only has to stroll along a lane in Ireland to escape basic passport controls? (OK, we may get controls at Larne - which would answer my question.)
God give me strength....
If Brexit is all about keeping furriners out, why does its central strategy rely on a hugely open back door? And how are the Brexiters going to react when they realise this?
Another helot speaks. They parted company at the third meaningful vote.
Threatening withdrawal of the whip doesn't look very smart, given the Brexit party will be sniffing around any MPs who are made an example of on the Leavey wing.
Yeah but if the outcome is a multi-party hostage swap whereby the Conservative Party loses Mark Francois and Steve Baker in return for getting back David Gauke and Phil Hammond, it would be a spiffing deal.
This is rather unfortunate phrasing from that Times piece about German Brexit doubts.
"“Given the UK is no longer looking for a backstop that is a bridge to a future customs union-style relationship and wants a minimal free trade agreement, then it has to be something that is the FINAL SOLUTION and Northern Ireland only,” the diplomat said."
Another helot speaks. They parted company at the third meaningful vote.
Threatening withdrawal of the whip doesn't look very smart, given the Brexit party will be sniffing around any MPs who are made an example of on the Leavey wing.
Yeah but if the outcome is a multi-party hostage swap whereby the Conservative Party loses Mark Francois and Steve Baker in return for getting back David Gauke and Phil Hammond, it would be a spiffing deal.
Are you rejoining tomorrow?
I'll rejoin when David Gauke, or someone equally sensible, becomes leader.
Bozos worst nightmare . He gets a deal and still ends up with an extension . In the meantime Farage and co shout betrayal, the Tories slip in the polls and then there’s an election .
So according to Wee Jimmie Krankie there will be no fracking in Scotland, because fossil fuels are bad.
Wow it will be interesting to see how an independent Scotland manages without North Sea Oil when she logically closes that industry down for the same reasons...
FFS what a joke
YOU half witted cretin , we don't get a penny from North Sea Oil , it was all stolen by Westminster and the shysters tell us it is losing money now. You morons might be happy with tremors, shit water supplies etc, we are happy to have no fracking ever.
Yes, but...an essential part of the economic case for Indy is North sea oil and gas. Thousands in the NE are employed in the sector. SNP are hopelessly conflicted on whether to support it or not. Patrick Harvie's Greens - who SNP rely on - are adamantly against the sector. Banning fracking on fossil fuel grounds is sending a message to a lot of people who don't want to hear it and will vote against it. Its a conundrum.
Not at all. It's like the difference between quarrying Arthur's Seat [big hill in central Edinburgh, though I'm pretty sure you know it, and yes they tried to do it] and quarrying somewhere out in the Lothian countryside. Doesn't bear on the pros and cons of quarrying in general.
Not really following that analogy. The problem, surely, is whether burnishing green credentials is worth throwing a hugely important business sector under the bus. May not play well in NE which is already unimpressed by the possibility of a sell-out of the fishermen to the EU (in the event of IndyRef).
The NE fishermen are actually a tiny group which mostly sold themselves out long ago and are vastly overrepresented by the London media by contrast to the industry as a whole, which is much more mixed in its approach to Brexit.
But to your point: as Richard Tyndall says, different companies, different ways of doing things, so effectively a different business sector anyway. And as Noo said, if oil is going to be run down, it's insane to go to fracking as well as the established industry.
The point re the analogy was that if you are also going to wreck people's lives and environments even more by fracking, then there is no doubt what the correct choice is.
And keep an eye on Ms Swinson, as I hinted earlier.
Bozos worst nightmare . He gets a deal and still ends up with an extension . In the meantime Farage and co shout betrayal, the Tories slip in the polls and then there’s an election .
He needs to be told what he thinks before he can tell us
He is HYUFD best mate
I am sorry Big_G, but you are just as bad. You constantly rail against various Tory positions and declaim how terrible and un-conservative it is then, a few weeks later it is "I will support this policy". It seems like you will support anything from Party Central.
Oh well.... I guess that is what being a party loyalist is all about.
Please do not confuse my one nation conservative with HYUFD and his views.
I support a deal, always have, do not support Boris no deal, always have, support increasing police numbers and funding to the NHS, always have, support the environmental and animal policies in the QS, always have and if Boris or anyone else delivers this I will rejoin the party and vote conservative at the GE
I will not, under any circumstances, do anything that helps Corbyn get anywhere near power
Interestingly Gauke said today that he supports the QS and brexit but not no deal Brexit, much as I do
Comments
They get what they deserve for backing Leave when they of all people should have realized the problems it would cause in NI .
To back Leave was a disgraceful decision by them.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/15/christmas-postal-strike-looms-after-royal-mail-workers-vote-for-action
< checks notes >
... my biannual National Trust members' magazine.
The island of Ireland will become a unified entity regulation-wise. That is a huge step forward in the aspirations of unification.
I'm not backing him, but a few puff pieces and a couple of tweets and he'll be backed into 30-1 before you can say David Miliband's your uncle. One to keep an eye on and possibly lay later.
Anyone using that as an excuse to not vote for a deal is playing a stupid political game of their own and can claim no high ground, which they are attempting if they justify on that basis rather than just admit if they can or cannot support what is before them. Just say no if they want, its not hard.
"No one knows anything" - William Goldman.
https://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2018/Political_Attitudes/UNINATID.html
https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1184134292311629824?s=20
Unfortunately DUP and Sinn Fein have only one note in their songsheet.
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1184136648495390721?s=20
too slow
So if one only has to stroll along a lane in Ireland to escape basic passport controls? (OK, we may get controls at Larne - which would answer my question.)
Note - I am referring to the formal campaign period which commences with the election announcement.
Threatening withdrawal of the whip doesn't look very smart, given the Brexit party will be sniffing around any MPs who are made an example of on the Leavey wing.
He couldn’t organise a pregnancy on a council estate.
https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1184140981848989696?s=20
Oh well.... I guess that is what being a party loyalist is all about.
This is rather unfortunate phrasing from that Times piece about German Brexit doubts.
"“Given the UK is no longer looking for a backstop that is a bridge to a future customs union-style relationship and wants a minimal free trade agreement, then it has to be something that is the FINAL SOLUTION and Northern Ireland only,” the diplomat said."
I think I'll have a long wait!
If the ERG are happy, then presumably the DUP are happy.
Can Boris do this?!?!
But to your point: as Richard Tyndall says, different companies, different ways of doing things, so effectively a different business sector anyway. And as Noo said, if oil is going to be run down, it's insane to go to fracking as well as the established industry.
The point re the analogy was that if you are also going to wreck people's lives and environments even more by fracking, then there is no doubt what the correct choice is.
And keep an eye on Ms Swinson, as I hinted earlier.
I support a deal, always have, do not support Boris no deal, always have, support increasing police numbers and funding to the NHS, always have, support the environmental and animal policies in the QS, always have and if Boris or anyone else delivers this I will rejoin the party and vote conservative at the GE
I will not, under any circumstances, do anything that helps Corbyn get anywhere near power
Interestingly Gauke said today that he supports the QS and brexit but not no deal Brexit, much as I do
That do or die pledge was damn stupid.