politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » “Honouring” the referendum should apply to not just to the out
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Byronic said:
If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.Scott_P said:
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
Mason is just the first to go super-critical.
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He's got such a minority that ten or so fewer won't make too much difference.Scott_P said:0 -
If Bozo throws the DUP under a bus that’s even more reason to vote for the deal .
They get what they deserve for backing Leave when they of all people should have realized the problems it would cause in NI .
To back Leave was a disgraceful decision by them.0 -
I believe the DUP plan was to impose a hard border and entrench division between Northern Ireland and the Republic, so anything that erases that division looks like a defeat to them.Byronic said:
Amongst many other errors, you are wrong in saying this increases the chances of Irish reunification.TOPPING said:
Your (copyright: all leavers) kidding, right?dyedwoolie said:
Maugham will activate his Big Book Of Lawyers Tricks And Bedtime TalesByronic said:
If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.Scott_P said:
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
Mason is just the first to go super-critical.
A deal which preserves the spirit of the GFA and has the effect of making Irish unification more likely and which IIRC was outlawed by one vote or another and was even rejected by Theresa May, she of No. 10 parish a while ago, and which seems very sensible and keeps us close to the EU necessarily to keep the DUP from exploding (sadly literally) but begs again the was it all worth it question?
That deal is going to anger remainers?
You're (copyright: all remainers) having a laugh.
IF the Norns are offered the suggested deal, it means they get the advantages of the EU Single Market and CU AND ALSO UK nationality, citizenship, welfare state and trade deals; they will have an unbelievably sweet arrangement and their economy/investment will boom. They won't ever want to change it.
Irish unity will become a distant dream.
But will the DUP have the wits to grasp this?0 -
That's true, but I would expect any reneging ex post to be in the direction of making it less in line with something that a Labour MP could supportMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Boy, the PD is not legally binding, though, whereas the withdrawal agreement is.
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Fair enough, i thought you had quit the Tories after 50 years of membership? Personally, I cannot vote for him -ever!Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the alternative is Corbyn. No thank youThe_Taxman said:
I doubt it BigG, I dispise him and will not vote for him and know other lifelong Tories who will do he same. One is 98! You dont get more Tory than her! BJ is a total prat, who puts himself first and country second. Don't be seduced into supporting a wrong one! You have the experience in life to know something is too good to be true!Big_G_NorthWales said:
If Boris pulls this off, and it is a huge if, it will be his Falklands momentStocky said:Big_G said: "If a deal is agreed labour will be running very scared of an election"
I think we have danced round this already. If a deal - Farage say BINO - BXT split Tory vote - Lab have decent chance of getting most seats in GE0 -
97% in favour of a postal strike.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/15/christmas-postal-strike-looms-after-royal-mail-workers-vote-for-action0 -
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.Carnyx said:
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.Dadge said:
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.HYUFD said:
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to doHYUFD said:
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executiveMikeSmithson said:
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.HYUFD said:
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UKThe_Taxman said:
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!HYUFD said:'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
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That's a nightmare. Now I won't get....Yellow_Submarine said:97% in favour of a postal strike.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/15/christmas-postal-strike-looms-after-royal-mail-workers-vote-for-action
< checks notes >
... my biannual National Trust members' magazine.0 -
Which is ridiculous. An Irish hard border would be so hated, a bunch of moderate unionists would move to unification to get rid of it.OblitusSumMe said:
I believe the DUP plan was to impose a hard border and entrench division between Northern Ireland and the Republic, so anything that erases that division looks like a defeat to them.Byronic said:
Amongst many other errors, you are wrong in saying this increases the chances of Irish reunification.TOPPING said:
Your (copyright: all leavers) kidding, right?dyedwoolie said:
Maugham will activate his Big Book Of Lawyers Tricks And Bedtime TalesByronic said:
If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.Scott_P said:
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
Mason is just the first to go super-critical.
A deal which preserves the spirit of the GFA and has the effect of making Irish unification more likely and which IIRC was outlawed by one vote or another and was even rejected by Theresa May, she of No. 10 parish a while ago, and which seems very sensible and keeps us close to the EU necessarily to keep the DUP from exploding (sadly literally) but begs again the was it all worth it question?
That deal is going to anger remainers?
You're (copyright: all remainers) having a laugh.
IF the Norns are offered the suggested deal, it means they get the advantages of the EU Single Market and CU AND ALSO UK nationality, citizenship, welfare state and trade deals; they will have an unbelievably sweet arrangement and their economy/investment will boom. They won't ever want to change it.
Irish unity will become a distant dream.
But will the DUP have the wits to grasp this?0 -
Suck it up Foster . It looks all rather desperate .Scott_P said:0 -
Irish unificaiton is not about economics. It is about identity. As a Brexiteer you should know that. When most people in Northern Ireland consider themselves Irish - and the demographics suggest that will happen reasonably quickly - then that's us out of there.Byronic said:
Amongst many other errors, you are wrong in saying this increases the chances of Irish reunification.TOPPING said:
Your (copyright: all leavers) kidding, right?dyedwoolie said:
Maugham will activate his Big Book Of Lawyers Tricks And Bedtime TalesByronic said:
If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.Scott_P said:
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
Mason is just the first to go super-critical.
A deal which preserves the spirit of the GFA and has the effect of making Irish unification more likely and which IIRC was outlawed by one vote or another and was even rejected by Theresa May, she of No. 10 parish a while ago, and which seems very sensible and keeps us close to the EU necessarily to keep the DUP from exploding (sadly literally) but begs again the was it all worth it question?
That deal is going to anger remainers?
You're (copyright: all remainers) having a laugh.
IF the Norns are offered the suggested deal, it means they get the advantages of the EU Single Market and CU AND ALSO UK nationality, citizenship, welfare state and trade deals; they will have an unbelievably sweet arrangement and their economy/investment will boom. They won't ever want to change it.
Irish unity will become a distant dream.
But will the DUP have the wits to grasp this?
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Hmm not exactly Tyson Beckford levels of insight. But to be expected I suppose.Byronic said:
Amongst many other errors, you are wrong in saying this increases the chances of Irish reunification.TOPPING said:
Your (copyright: all leavers) kidding, right?dyedwoolie said:
Maugham will activate his Big Book Of Lawyers Tricks And Bedtime TalesByronic said:
If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.Scott_P said:
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
Mason is just the first to go super-critical.
A deal which preserves the spirit of the GFA and has the effect of making Irish unification more likely and which IIRC was outlawed by one vote or another and was even rejected by Theresa May, she of No. 10 parish a while ago, and which seems very sensible and keeps us close to the EU necessarily to keep the DUP from exploding (sadly literally) but begs again the was it all worth it question?
That deal is going to anger remainers?
You're (copyright: all remainers) having a laugh.
IF the Norns are offered the suggested deal, it means they get the advantages of the EU Single Market and CU AND ALSO UK nationality, citizenship, welfare state and trade deals; they will have an unbelievably sweet arrangement and their economy/investment will boom. They won't ever want to change it.
Irish unity will become a distant dream.
But will the DUP have the wits to grasp this?
The island of Ireland will become a unified entity regulation-wise. That is a huge step forward in the aspirations of unification.0 -
He was on Newsnight before June 2016 advocating Leave! I watched him say it...Pulpstar said:
On a point of fact he voted to remain :.The_Taxman said:
Yeah, Paul Mason who voted Leave and recommended others do the same!dyedwoolie said:
Paul's a little testy. He seems irked a deal may be donerottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/7456609023184076800 -
Another non runner seems to be picking up some steam in the POTUS race, Michael Bloomberg at 70/90 for Democrat nominee.
I'm not backing him, but a few puff pieces and a couple of tweets and he'll be backed into 30-1 before you can say David Miliband's your uncle. One to keep an eye on and possibly lay later.0 -
Okay, thank you. But surely leaving it open in Ireland (sensu lato) also allows free mvoement there anyway de facto, so why not elsewhere? Sorry - this is really puzzling me, especially as immigration wa ssupposedly what it's all about in part. Why is it OK to have furriners coming in ad lib in Ireland and not, say, Heathrow?Charles said:
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.Carnyx said:
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.Dadge said:
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.HYUFD said:
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to doHYUFD said:
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executiveMikeSmithson said:
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.HYUFD said:
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UKThe_Taxman said:
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!HYUFD said:'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
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Its very enertaining watching all these know it alls on Twitter scrabbling around to try and find out what the hell is going on!MarqueeMark said:
Nobody. Knows.
But the media are having to dig around all their contacts as no-one is talking. Hence you get weird shit from the peripherals..... 0 -
I cannot see the revised PD surviving contact with the real world. Once we are out, the Tories do have the chance to start being Tories again. And that will mean listening to business.OnlyLivingBoy said:It seems like Johnson is following the Nixon to China strategy of agreeing to a deal that goes further towards the EU's demands than the one he voted against twice a few months ago. Can he bring the ultra-Leavers with him? He will have to I think, because his strategy seems to be to tilt towards a more Tory favourable PD, which will limit Labour support. All a long way from dyimg in a ditch, somewhat unsurprisingly.
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FPT
How very childish of them. The merits or not of a deal exist regardless if BoJo the Clown and his warm up act say bad things.Jonathan said:Boris has activity antagonised and insulted Labour MPs. Because of that they will be less likely to ride to his rescue or participate in his political games. That dire Geoffrey Cox speech casts a long shadow.
Anyone using that as an excuse to not vote for a deal is playing a stupid political game of their own and can claim no high ground, which they are attempting if they justify on that basis rather than just admit if they can or cannot support what is before them. Just say no if they want, its not hard.0 -
Controls at George Best Airport and the ferry?Charles said:
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.Carnyx said:
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.Dadge said:
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.HYUFD said:
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to doHYUFD said:
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executiveMikeSmithson said:
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.HYUFD said:
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UKThe_Taxman said:
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!HYUFD said:'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
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About an hour ago this same guy was saying a deal is now impossible.williamglenn said:
"No one knows anything" - William Goldman.0 -
I heard an interview with him and he was pretty clear about not standing. He said he'd done polling and, if I remember rightly, it was a great big no from the public.Pulpstar said:Another non runner seems to be picking up some steam in the POTUS race, Michael Bloomberg at 70/90 for Democrat nominee.
I'm not backing him, but a few puff pieces and a couple of tweets and he'll be backed into 30-1 before you can say David Miliband's your uncle. One to keep an eye on and possibly lay later.0 -
De-dramatised checks would not be much more than the existing checks that have to happen for things like agriculture right now. The crux of the deal resembles the thinking behind the Good Friday Agreement. Legally the province is entirely in the British customs area, but de facto there is a mix: UK tariffs but EU checks. In terms of status, I think the legal situation and the tax situation are far more important than non-intrusive checks.Danny565 said:
A "customs border in the Irish Sea" would suggest it would be much more severe than what you're suggesting, but admittedly it's just one report right now.Gabs2 said:
This isn't news. The Leo-Boris deal was based on NI being in the UK customs territory but with checks and administration for the whole island. They get the benefit of frictionless trade with the Republic but subsidies from UK trade deals.Scott_P said:0 -
except of course thats not whats happening, Most nordies dont see themselves as either Irish or British but NeitherSouthamObserver said:
Irish unificaiton is not about economics. It is about identity. As a Brexiteer you should know that. When most people in Northern Ireland consider themselves Irish - and the demographics suggest that will happen reasonably quickly - then that's us out of there.Byronic said:
Amongst many other errors, you are wrong in saying this increases the chances of Irish reunification.TOPPING said:
Your (copyright: all leavers) kidding, right?dyedwoolie said:
Maugham will activate his Big Book Of Lawyers Tricks And Bedtime TalesByronic said:
If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.Scott_P said:
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
Mason is just the first to go super-critical.
A deal which preserves the spirit of the GFA and has the effect of making Irish unification more likely and which IIRC was outlawed by one vote or another and was even rejected by Theresa May, she of No. 10 parish a while ago, and which seems very sensible and keeps us close to the EU necessarily to keep the DUP from exploding (sadly literally) but begs again the was it all worth it question?
That deal is going to anger remainers?
You're (copyright: all remainers) having a laugh.
IF the Norns are offered the suggested deal, it means they get the advantages of the EU Single Market and CU AND ALSO UK nationality, citizenship, welfare state and trade deals; they will have an unbelievably sweet arrangement and their economy/investment will boom. They won't ever want to change it.
Irish unity will become a distant dream.
But will the DUP have the wits to grasp this?
https://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2018/Political_Attitudes/UNINATID.html0 -
... and everybody lies.Byronic said:
About an hour ago this same guy was saying a deal is now impossible.williamglenn said:
"No one knows anything" - William Goldman.0 -
Tony Benn looking down approvingly at his boy getting the job donewilliamglenn said:2 -
The deal keeps Northern Ireland legally in the UK Customs situation and also gives them a democratic veto over continued membership. Clearly that is closer to DUP demands. Meanwhile GB is out entirely, which is closer to ERG demands.OnlyLivingBoy said:It seems like Johnson is following the Nixon to China strategy of agreeing to a deal that goes further towards the EU's demands than the one he voted against twice a few months ago. Can he bring the ultra-Leavers with him? He will have to I think, because his strategy seems to be to tilt towards a more Tory favourable PD, which will limit Labour support. All a long way from dyimg in a ditch, somewhat unsurprisingly.
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if the Ulster politicians had any sense theyd be using the duality to their advantage.Gabs2 said:
The deal keeps Northern Ireland legally in the UK Customs situation and also gives them a democratic veto over continued membership. Clearly that is closer to DUP demands. Meanwhile GB is out entirely, which is closer to ERG demands.OnlyLivingBoy said:It seems like Johnson is following the Nixon to China strategy of agreeing to a deal that goes further towards the EU's demands than the one he voted against twice a few months ago. Can he bring the ultra-Leavers with him? He will have to I think, because his strategy seems to be to tilt towards a more Tory favourable PD, which will limit Labour support. All a long way from dyimg in a ditch, somewhat unsurprisingly.
Unfortunately DUP and Sinn Fein have only one note in their songsheet.0 -
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.CarlottaVance said:
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.0 -
He needs to be told what he thinks before he can tell uswilliamglenn said:0 -
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Blah blah blah violence if we don't get our way blah blah blahByronic said:
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.CarlottaVance said:
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.0 -
It really is about time you people stopped conflating free movement with freedom to travel. They are not the same thing.Carnyx said:
Okay, thank you. But surely leaving it open in Ireland (sensu lato) also allows free mvoement there anyway de facto, so why not elsewhere? Sorry - this is really puzzling me, especially as immigration wa ssupposedly what it's all about in part. Why is it OK to have furriners coming in ad lib in Ireland and not, say, Heathrow?Charles said:
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.Carnyx said:
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.Dadge said:
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.HYUFD said:
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to doHYUFD said:
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executiveMikeSmithson said:
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.HYUFD said:
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UKThe_Taxman said:
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!HYUFD said:'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
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I hear Boris Johnson has persuaded the EU to get France to cede Pas-de-Calais to the UK whilst also getting the French to honour the Treaty of Troyes.1
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Not identifying as nationalist or unionist is not the same as not identifying as British or Irish.Alanbrooke said:
except of course thats not whats happening, Most nordies dont see themselves as either Irish or British but NeitherSouthamObserver said:
Irish unificaiton is not about economics. It is about identity. As a Brexiteer you should know that. When most people in Northern Ireland consider themselves Irish - and the demographics suggest that will happen reasonably quickly - then that's us out of there.Byronic said:
Amongst many other errors, you are wrong in saying this increases the chances of Irish reunification.TOPPING said:
Your (copyright: all leavers) kidding, right?dyedwoolie said:
Maugham will activate his Big Book Of Lawyers Tricks And Bedtime TalesByronic said:
If a deal is offered, there will be an absolute explosion in the hysteria fireworks factory of ultra-lunatic Remainerism.Scott_P said:
Jolyon Maugham might literally explode, like a watermelon in a microwave. Ian Dunt will be turned into a piece of glowing charcoal on the roof of Chernobyl.
Mason is just the first to go super-critical.
A deal which preserves the spirit of the GFA and has the effect of making Irish unification more likely and which IIRC was outlawed by one vote or another and was even rejected by Theresa May, she of No. 10 parish a while ago, and which seems very sensible and keeps us close to the EU necessarily to keep the DUP from exploding (sadly literally) but begs again the was it all worth it question?
That deal is going to anger remainers?
You're (copyright: all remainers) having a laugh.
IF the Norns are offered the suggested deal, it means they get the advantages of the EU Single Market and CU AND ALSO UK nationality, citizenship, welfare state and trade deals; they will have an unbelievably sweet arrangement and their economy/investment will boom. They won't ever want to change it.
Irish unity will become a distant dream.
But will the DUP have the wits to grasp this?
https://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2018/Political_Attitudes/UNINATID.html
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That is true of a few Party Loyalists on here too....Noo said:
He needs to be told what he thinks before he can tell uswilliamglenn said:0 -
Blah blah blah violence in Northern Ireland if we Leave blah blah blahNoo said:
Blah blah blah violence if we don't get our way blah blah blahByronic said:
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.CarlottaVance said:
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.2 -
Do not worry too much. Somebody will deny it in a minute and blame it on Remainers....Noo said:
Blah blah blah violence if we don't get our way blah blah blahByronic said:
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.CarlottaVance said:
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.0 -
If they can throw in acknowledgment of John of Gaunt's claim to the Spanish throne, I think we should accept.TheScreamingEagles said:I hear Boris Johnson has persuaded the EU to get France to cede Pas-de-Calais to the UK whilst also getting the French to honour the Treaty of Troyes.
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But I haven't said that. And you love talking about violence.Byronic said:
Blah blah blah violence in Northern Ireland if we Leave blah blah blahNoo said:
Blah blah blah violence if we don't get our way blah blah blahByronic said:
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.CarlottaVance said:
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.0 -
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Incredible what-about-ism. It reminds me of when uefa fined bendtner more for wearing paddy power boxer shorts than the FA of a nation whose fans went full on racist chant-athon.Scott_P said:0 -
The Quiet Man has... stayed quiet!williamglenn said: 0 -
Mrs C, there's a huge difference, though, as nobody here (presumably) actually knows what the mooted deal is.0
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If they can persuade Bill Cash that's it. The ERG is on board. Francois will be the only rebel.Scott_P said:0 -
Byronic said:
Blah blah blah violence in Northern Ireland if we Leave blah blah blahNoo said:
Blah blah blah violence if we don't get our way blah blah blahByronic said:
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.CarlottaVance said:
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.Beibheirli_C said:
Do not worry too much. Somebody will deny it in a minute and blame it on Remainers....Noo said:
Blah blah blah violence if we don't get our way blah blah blahByronic said:
Yes, amidst the sound and fury, it seems like they are all feeling the pressure. Another Brexit extension takes us into ever further levels of angst. And towards a violent outcome, or a horrible No Deal.CarlottaVance said:
Britain has to leave, the EU has to let us go.
too slow0 -
https://twitter.com/MatthewOToole2/status/1184140001535315969GIN1138 said:The Quiet Man has... stayed quiet!
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Ah, victory.TheScreamingEagles said:I hear Boris Johnson has persuaded the EU to get France to cede Pas-de-Calais to the UK whilst also getting the French to honour the Treaty of Troyes.
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UEFA are disgusting.Scott_P said:0 -
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Turning down the volumeGIN1138 said:0 -
Not legally. But I did say de facto.Xtrain said:
It really is about time you people stopped conflating free movement with freedom to travel. They are not the same thing.Carnyx said:
Okay, thank you. But surely leaving it open in Ireland (sensu lato) also allows free mvoement there anyway de facto, so why not elsewhere? Sorry - this is really puzzling me, especially as immigration wa ssupposedly what it's all about in part. Why is it OK to have furriners coming in ad lib in Ireland and not, say, Heathrow?Charles said:
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.Carnyx said:
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.Dadge said:
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.HYUFD said:
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to doHYUFD said:
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executiveMikeSmithson said:
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.HYUFD said:
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UKThe_Taxman said:
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!HYUFD said:'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
So if one only has to stroll along a lane in Ireland to escape basic passport controls? (OK, we may get controls at Larne - which would answer my question.)0 -
He is HYUFD best mateNoo said:
He needs to be told what he thinks before he can tell uswilliamglenn said:0 -
Is it just me or has David Davis been surprisingly quiet since he quit his Brexit job?Scott_P said:0 -
Too old.Pulpstar said:Another non runner seems to be picking up some steam in the POTUS race, Michael Bloomberg at 70/90 for Democrat nominee.
I'm not backing him, but a few puff pieces and a couple of tweets and he'll be backed into 30-1 before you can say David Miliband's your uncle. One to keep an eye on and possibly lay later.0 -
Indeed, but smoke, fire, etc....Morris_Dancer said:Mrs C, there's a huge difference, though, as nobody here (presumably) actually knows what the mooted deal is.
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It was true in the elections of 1959 - 1964 - 1966 - 1970 - both 1974 elections - 1987 - 2001 - and 2017. It was not true in 1992 and 2015 - in both cases subsequent enquiries revealed methodological issues.eristdoof said:
I don't think that last sentence is true in general.justin124 said:
Maybe - but it is worth recalling that 3% Tory leads only started to appear in the final week of the 2017 campaign. Governments also tend to lose ground in the main campaign period.eek said:
See the thread I've just posted - Labour really don't want an election - they need a new leader firstjustin124 said:
On the other hand, if the Panelbase polls become typical, Labour might be keen to move a VNOC.eek said:
+1 if Boris is forced to extend he will want an election far less than anyone else does. Boris's window of opportunity will have completely disappeared until we have actually left.AlastairMeeks said:
It's not at all obvious to me that we're on the brink of an election, nor that Christmas is the only logistical impediment to having one this year.GIN1138 said:
Thanks. So basically if an election isn't agreed by 1st November that's it until the end of Febaury/early March.AlastairMeeks said:
For the most of a government's term that party drops in the polls, partly because any government needs to make some unpopular decisions, and partly because people like complaining about the government.
When the election comes the voters start to look at the comparison, between the two main parties and many who voted for the government last time start to think that that lot aren't so bad after all. That and the government tends to give away some swing voter friendly sweeteners.
Note - I am referring to the formal campaign period which commences with the election announcement.0 -
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Another helot speaks. They parted company at the third meaningful vote.Scott_P said:
Threatening withdrawal of the whip doesn't look very smart, given the Brexit party will be sniffing around any MPs who are made an example of on the Leavey wing.0 -
BJ is hated alright! The Tories who support him, just do not understand...CarlottaVance said:0 -
God give me strength....Carnyx said:
Not legally. But I did say de facto.Xtrain said:
It really is about time you people stopped conflating free movement with freedom to travel. They are not the same thing.Carnyx said:
Okay, thank you. But surely leaving it open in Ireland (sensu lato) also allows free mvoement there anyway de facto, so why not elsewhere? Sorry - this is really puzzling me, especially as immigration wa ssupposedly what it's all about in part. Why is it OK to have furriners coming in ad lib in Ireland and not, say, Heathrow?Charles said:
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.Carnyx said:
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.Dadge said:
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.HYUFD said:
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to doHYUFD said:
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executiveMikeSmithson said:
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.HYUFD said:
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UKThe_Taxman said:
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!HYUFD said:'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
So if one only has to stroll along a lane in Ireland to escape basic passport controls? (OK, we may get controls at Larne - which would answer my question.)0 -
Not really following that analogy. The problem, surely, is whether burnishing green credentials is worth throwing a hugely important business sector under the bus. May not play well in NE which is already unimpressed by the possibility of a sell-out of the fishermen to the EU (in the event of IndyRef).Carnyx said:
Not at all. It's like the difference between quarrying Arthur's Seat [big hill in central Edinburgh, though I'm pretty sure you know it, and yes they tried to do it] and quarrying somewhere out in the Lothian countryside. Doesn't bear on the pros and cons of quarrying in general.Burgessian said:
Yes, but...an essential part of the economic case for Indy is North sea oil and gas. Thousands in the NE are employed in the sector. SNP are hopelessly conflicted on whether to support it or not. Patrick Harvie's Greens - who SNP rely on - are adamantly against the sector. Banning fracking on fossil fuel grounds is sending a message to a lot of people who don't want to hear it and will vote against it. Its a conundrum.malcolmg said:
YOU half witted cretin , we don't get a penny from North Sea Oil , it was all stolen by Westminster and the shysters tell us it is losing money now. You morons might be happy with tremors, shit water supplies etc, we are happy to have no fracking ever.JonCisBack said:So according to Wee Jimmie Krankie there will be no fracking in Scotland, because fossil fuels are bad.
Wow it will be interesting to see how an independent Scotland manages without North Sea Oil when she logically closes that industry down for the same reasons...
FFS what a joke0 -
The 'pals' in Aberdeen hate fracking. Not the same companies and unfortunately not the same rules and protections.malcolmg said:
Rubbish, the majority are against fracking , we will see what help the Tories give their pals in Aberdeen. Also in what world do you exist if you think the SNP rely on the Greens, they are a bunch of list losers.Burgessian said:
Yes, but...an essential part of the economic case for Indy is North sea oil and gas. Thousands in the NE are employed in the sector. SNP are hopelessly conflicted on whether to support it or not. Patrick Harvie's Greens - who SNP rely on - are adamantly against the sector. Banning fracking on fossil fuel grounds is sending a message to a lot of people who don't want to hear it and will vote against it. Its a conundrum.malcolmg said:
YOU half witted cretin , we don't get a penny from North Sea Oil , it was all stolen by Westminster and the shysters tell us it is losing money now. You morons might be happy with tremors, shit water supplies etc, we are happy to have no fracking ever.JonCisBack said:So according to Wee Jimmie Krankie there will be no fracking in Scotland, because fossil fuels are bad.
Wow it will be interesting to see how an independent Scotland manages without North Sea Oil when she logically closes that industry down for the same reasons...
FFS what a joke0 -
His approval rating has gone in the other direction.The_Taxman said:
BJ is hated alright! The Tories who support him, just do not understand...CarlottaVance said:0 -
IDS is not one of the 28 Spartans who opposed MV3. If he's not yet satisfied, Boris Johnson has big problems.0
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Perhaps he's actually going to read it this time?AlastairMeeks said:IDS is not one of the 28 Spartans who opposed MV3. If he's not yet satisfied, Boris Johnson has big problems.
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Yeah but if the outcome is a multi-party hostage swap whereby the Conservative Party loses Mark Francois and Steve Baker in return for getting back David Gauke and Phil Hammond, it would be a spiffing deal.AlastairMeeks said:
Another helot speaks. They parted company at the third meaningful vote.Scott_P said:
Threatening withdrawal of the whip doesn't look very smart, given the Brexit party will be sniffing around any MPs who are made an example of on the Leavey wing.0 -
'Wasn't it good, wasn't it fine....'williamglenn said:
He added, "Looking back I could have played it differently. Won a few more moments who can tell. But it took time to understand the man. Now at least I know I know him well. He needs his fantasy and freedom..."Richard_Nabavi said:This is becoming more and more like the famous train-station scene in Les vacances de Monsieur Hulot:
https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/11841270553336053760 -
I am sorry Big_G, but you are just as bad. You constantly rail against various Tory positions and declaim how terrible and un-conservative it is then, a few weeks later it is "I will support this policy". It seems like you will support anything from Party Central.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He is HYUFD best mateNoo said:
He needs to be told what he thinks before he can tell uswilliamglenn said:
Oh well.... I guess that is what being a party loyalist is all about.0 -
You're not going to lose a bet are you?Byronic said:0 -
I mean there's no way for Parliament to pass all the necessary laws even if the deal was signed this week.Byronic said:0 -
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If Brexit is all about keeping furriners out, why does its central strategy rely on a hugely open back door? And how are the Brexiters going to react when they realise this?Xtrain said:
God give me strength....Carnyx said:
Not legally. But I did say de facto.Xtrain said:
It really is about time you people stopped conflating free movement with freedom to travel. They are not the same thing.Carnyx said:
Okay, thank you. But surely leaving it open in Ireland (sensu lato) also allows free mvoement there anyway de facto, so why not elsewhere? Sorry - this is really puzzling me, especially as immigration wa ssupposedly what it's all about in part. Why is it OK to have furriners coming in ad lib in Ireland and not, say, Heathrow?Charles said:
I'd be fine with a open border as a part of an FTA. But the EU won't allow it without free movement.Carnyx said:
Exactly. I've asked twice recently why it is OK for Mr Johnson to have an open boirder with Ireland (Republic of) but to have a closed border at Dover, Gatwick Airport, etc. etc. Not one brexiteer here can explain this to me.Dadge said:
If he manages the trick of achieving a Hard Brexit (which btw most people didn't vote for) for the whole UK whilst avoiding a hard border in Ireland, he's one of the greatest magicians who's ever lived.HYUFD said:
The Good Friday Agreement also said nothing about a backstop, only about avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has committed to doHYUFD said:
Sinn Fein have already dishonoured it by leaving the Stormont executiveMikeSmithson said:
Honouring the Good Friday Agreement should take priority.HYUFD said:
Then No Deal it has to be until the EU agree to remove the backstop and European Court jurisdiction over the UKThe_Taxman said:
I doubt it! What concessions will the EU require from the UK for that? Easiest trade deal my arse!HYUFD said:'We'll have a free trade deal with the EU but without being subject to the European Court', so once the EU agreed to remove the backstop and start Free Trade Agreement talks that Vote Leave promise can be delivered
So if one only has to stroll along a lane in Ireland to escape basic passport controls? (OK, we may get controls at Larne - which would answer my question.)0 -
Are you rejoining tomorrow?Richard_Nabavi said:
Yeah but if the outcome is a multi-party hostage swap whereby the Conservative Party loses Mark Francois and Steve Baker in return for getting back David Gauke and Phil Hammond, it would be a spiffing deal.AlastairMeeks said:
Another helot speaks. They parted company at the third meaningful vote.Scott_P said:
Threatening withdrawal of the whip doesn't look very smart, given the Brexit party will be sniffing around any MPs who are made an example of on the Leavey wing. 0 -
I never bet.CatMan said:
You're not going to lose a bet are you?Byronic said:
This is rather unfortunate phrasing from that Times piece about German Brexit doubts.
"“Given the UK is no longer looking for a backstop that is a bridge to a future customs union-style relationship and wants a minimal free trade agreement, then it has to be something that is the FINAL SOLUTION and Northern Ireland only,” the diplomat said."0 -
Please tell me that Stormont is going to have to implement every EU rule change for ever and ever and ever and ever.0
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I'll rejoin when David Gauke, or someone equally sensible, becomes leader.Beibheirli_C said:
Are you rejoining tomorrow?Richard_Nabavi said:
Yeah but if the outcome is a multi-party hostage swap whereby the Conservative Party loses Mark Francois and Steve Baker in return for getting back David Gauke and Phil Hammond, it would be a spiffing deal.AlastairMeeks said:
Another helot speaks. They parted company at the third meaningful vote.Scott_P said:
Threatening withdrawal of the whip doesn't look very smart, given the Brexit party will be sniffing around any MPs who are made an example of on the Leavey wing.
I think I'll have a long wait!0 -
Wonder if @HYUFD will have some inside info to share soon?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He is HYUFD best mateNoo said:
He needs to be told what he thinks before he can tell uswilliamglenn said:-1 -
Nobody knows anything- what larks.1
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Perhaps he hasn't yet been relieved of his duties in the bunker planning the raids on Spanish ham factories.GIN1138 said:
Wonder if @HYUFD will have some inside info to share soon?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He is HYUFD best mateNoo said:
He needs to be told what he thinks before he can tell uswilliamglenn said:2 -
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HYUFD's too busy paddling furiously across the Bay of Biscay on a lone mission to invade Iberia.GIN1138 said:
Wonder if @HYUFD will have some inside info to share soon?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He is HYUFD best mateNoo said:
He needs to be told what he thinks before he can tell uswilliamglenn said:0 -
Bozos worst nightmare . He gets a deal and still ends up with an extension . In the meantime Farage and co shout betrayal, the Tories slip in the polls and then there’s an election .
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Just Francois, then.Scott_P said:
If the ERG are happy, then presumably the DUP are happy.
Can Boris do this?!?!0 -
The NE fishermen are actually a tiny group which mostly sold themselves out long ago and are vastly overrepresented by the London media by contrast to the industry as a whole, which is much more mixed in its approach to Brexit.Burgessian said:
Not really following that analogy. The problem, surely, is whether burnishing green credentials is worth throwing a hugely important business sector under the bus. May not play well in NE which is already unimpressed by the possibility of a sell-out of the fishermen to the EU (in the event of IndyRef).Carnyx said:
Not at all. It's like the difference between quarrying Arthur's Seat [big hill in central Edinburgh, though I'm pretty sure you know it, and yes they tried to do it] and quarrying somewhere out in the Lothian countryside. Doesn't bear on the pros and cons of quarrying in general.Burgessian said:
Yes, but...an essential part of the economic case for Indy is North sea oil and gas. Thousands in the NE are employed in the sector. SNP are hopelessly conflicted on whether to support it or not. Patrick Harvie's Greens - who SNP rely on - are adamantly against the sector. Banning fracking on fossil fuel grounds is sending a message to a lot of people who don't want to hear it and will vote against it. Its a conundrum.malcolmg said:
YOU half witted cretin , we don't get a penny from North Sea Oil , it was all stolen by Westminster and the shysters tell us it is losing money now. You morons might be happy with tremors, shit water supplies etc, we are happy to have no fracking ever.JonCisBack said:So according to Wee Jimmie Krankie there will be no fracking in Scotland, because fossil fuels are bad.
Wow it will be interesting to see how an independent Scotland manages without North Sea Oil when she logically closes that industry down for the same reasons...
FFS what a joke
But to your point: as Richard Tyndall says, different companies, different ways of doing things, so effectively a different business sector anyway. And as Noo said, if oil is going to be run down, it's insane to go to fracking as well as the established industry.
The point re the analogy was that if you are also going to wreck people's lives and environments even more by fracking, then there is no doubt what the correct choice is.
And keep an eye on Ms Swinson, as I hinted earlier.
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Quite likely I think.nico67 said:Bozos worst nightmare . He gets a deal and still ends up with an extension . In the meantime Farage and co shout betrayal, the Tories slip in the polls and then there’s an election .
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I doubt it, he might still be in NI! He is commited to commenting, even on holiday! But inside info - No!GIN1138 said:
Wonder if @HYUFD will have some inside info to share soon?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He is HYUFD best mateNoo said:
He needs to be told what he thinks before he can tell uswilliamglenn said:0 -
Please do not confuse my one nation conservative with HYUFD and his views.Beibheirli_C said:
I am sorry Big_G, but you are just as bad. You constantly rail against various Tory positions and declaim how terrible and un-conservative it is then, a few weeks later it is "I will support this policy". It seems like you will support anything from Party Central.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He is HYUFD best mateNoo said:
He needs to be told what he thinks before he can tell uswilliamglenn said:
Oh well.... I guess that is what being a party loyalist is all about.
I support a deal, always have, do not support Boris no deal, always have, support increasing police numbers and funding to the NHS, always have, support the environmental and animal policies in the QS, always have and if Boris or anyone else delivers this I will rejoin the party and vote conservative at the GE
I will not, under any circumstances, do anything that helps Corbyn get anywhere near power
Interestingly Gauke said today that he supports the QS and brexit but not no deal Brexit, much as I do0 -
IDS: The man who never has had anything to say. The quiet man with lots to be quiet about.GIN1138 said:
Wonder if @HYUFD will have some inside info to share soon?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He is HYUFD best mateNoo said:
He needs to be told what he thinks before he can tell uswilliamglenn said:0
This discussion has been closed.