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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    TOPPING said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Thankfully the opposition parties have seen sense and not fallen for a trap .

    To have tried to VONC Bozo now would have allowed him to say they ruined negotiations as allegedly concrete proposals will be put forward early next week .

    Secondly the 21 Tory rebels are reluctant to pull the plug, some want the whip back and others want to be seen to giving him a chance to secure a deal.

    The off record briefings about a loophole in the Benn Act were a desperate attempt to frighten the opposition into an early VONC.

    The so called loopholes are just more nonsense from Cummings .

    But if they are not nonsense, they have lost time to do something about them......

    So they will have fallen for the trap.
    I’ll take what the experts say who agree even if Bozo refuses to obey the law the courts will take quick action to make sure he does .

    His threats at the judiciary won’t go down well.
    Good to see you prejudging what the courts will decide. They are truly no longer independent if you can rely upon them to do your bidding.....
    Good point. If I drive at 130mph on the A1(M) and get caught I have no idea what will happen.
    You might. Especially if you happen to know the police haven't propery calibrated their speed guns.....
  • malcolmg said:

    https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1178680485574299653?s=20

    I've voting Tory.

    Hello everyone, my name is JBriskinindref2 - and I am now officially a PB Tory

    The only Tory in the village
    Tories are third in my constituency, LDs lost, or came close to, losing their deposit.

    I might have a flutter.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Thankfully the opposition parties have seen sense and not fallen for a trap .

    To have tried to VONC Bozo now would have allowed him to say they ruined negotiations as allegedly concrete proposals will be put forward early next week .

    Secondly the 21 Tory rebels are reluctant to pull the plug, some want the whip back and others want to be seen to giving him a chance to secure a deal.

    The off record briefings about a loophole in the Benn Act were a desperate attempt to frighten the opposition into an early VONC.

    The so called loopholes are just more nonsense from Cummings .

    But if they are not nonsense, they have lost time to do something about them......

    So they will have fallen for the trap.
    I’ll take what the experts say who agree even if Bozo refuses to obey the law the courts will take quick action to make sure he does .

    His threats at the judiciary won’t go down well.
    Good to see you prejudging what the courts will decide. They are truly no longer independent if you can rely upon them to do your bidding.....
    Clearly you haven’t read the experts views on the so called loopholes . The courts will uphold the law . And please spare us the faux outrage over the independence of the judiciary . I said before the SC case I’d respect their ruling if it went for the government , they’re the experts . Sadly Leavers only respect judges and other bodies if they agree with them . The so called Leave mantra to get back parliamentary sovereignty and British judges deciding is yet another pack of lies . Leavers seem instead to want to live in a dictatorship given the insults hurled at the judges whose decision means a future PM doesn’t have unrestricted power .
  • kinabalu said:

    You must go to some seriously dull parties.

    Well they do tend to be dull when I get there. But as for before and after, it's hard to know.
    LOL!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Scott_P said:
    However 62% do not believe Labour is ready for Government in the same poll and 63% do not believe Corbyn is ready to be PM
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670
    viewcode said:

    Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?

    No. I also.
    No and would expect most to know it
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    BBC News - Tory conference: National Living Wage to rise to £10.50, says chancellor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49881980

    Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.

    It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
    And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
    I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them! :blush:
    Parties change very rapidly. No reason to be ashamed of supporting them pre 2019 nor supporting Labour pre 2015. No reason not to consider either of them again when they return to their senses.
    Thats a good point. I think i am a centrerist. Some movements economically and socially are necessary but i believe it is a slow process. Too much too soon is bad. Hence my opposition to no deal brexit! I have also come to the conclusion that life is brittle and not every human is able to function as a net giver. Some state intervention is not only necessary but desirable.
  • malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?

    No. I also.
    No and would expect most to know it
    Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123

    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?

    No. I also.
    No and would expect most to know it
    Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
    More likely to be evidence that one is actually paying one's correct taxes - one way or another - via the annual tax return and ensuing correspondence.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited September 2019
    Good move from Javid to promise to raise the minimum wage, targeted at precisely the working class Leave voters the Tories need to win a Tory majority
  • FlannerFlanner Posts: 405
    Scott_P said:

    ROFL
    Voters think May's a better leader than Johnson
    https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1178703550026616839

    Screamingly obvious

    Any chance we could get her back? The past two months have made her reign feel like an oasis of honesty, decency and sound judgement. And NO GROPING

  • Byronic said:

    Byronic said:
    It makes complete sense. Use him up, then toss him aside like a scrunched-up tissue.
    You do get decidely tumescent when you discuss thwarting Brexit. But chacun son gout.

    Incidentally, you imply in your more blood-curdling posts that there is a way of reversing Brexit, and it will happen "in due course" etc etc. What is it?

    Genuine question. I am quite neutral on Brexit these days. The fires have burned out. I have no more energy to expend on it, as it sucks in all energy. So vexing is pointless.

    But I am still curious as to how it might pan out, and welcome theories thereto.
    Are you saying your diamond hard-on is now flaccid?
  • HYUFD said:

    Good move from Javid to promise to raise the minimum wage, targeted at precisely the working class Leave voters the Tories need to win a Tory majority

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1178679760018391040
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106

    I have also come to the conclusion that life is brittle and not every human is able to function as a net giver.

    As I recall there have been studies showing over half of UK households are 'net takers' from the system.
  • Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?

    No. I also.
    No and would expect most to know it
    Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
    More likely to be evidence that one is actually paying one's correct taxes - one way or another - via the annual tax return and ensuing correspondence.
    Never done a tax return. Although I did have some shares at one point. Obviously they had decreased in value.
  • HYUFD said:

    Good move from Javid to promise to raise the minimum wage, targeted at precisely the working class Leave voters the Tories need to win a Tory majority

    Last week you were saying it was skilled manual workers - they earn well above minimum wage.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    TOPPING said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Thankfully the opposition parties have seen sense and not fallen for a trap .

    To have tried to VONC Bozo now would have allowed him to say they ruined negotiations as allegedly concrete proposals will be put forward early next week .

    Secondly the 21 Tory rebels are reluctant to pull the plug, some want the whip back and others want to be seen to giving him a chance to secure a deal.

    The off record briefings about a loophole in the Benn Act were a desperate attempt to frighten the opposition into an early VONC.

    The so called loopholes are just more nonsense from Cummings .

    But if they are not nonsense, they have lost time to do something about them......

    So they will have fallen for the trap.
    I’ll take what the experts say who agree even if Bozo refuses to obey the law the courts will take quick action to make sure he does .

    His threats at the judiciary won’t go down well.
    Good to see you prejudging what the courts will decide. They are truly no longer independent if you can rely upon them to do your bidding.....
    Good point. If I drive at 130mph on the A1(M) and get caught I have no idea what will happen.
    You might. Especially if you happen to know the police haven't propery calibrated their speed guns.....
    In North Yorkshire Police area , they have no fixed speed cameras.
    They have mobile speed vans , which go to differing areas each day.
    The vans are manned by civilians.
    I believe the fines collected , pay for the wages , vehicles, and equipment.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093
    I have been absent-mindedly scrolling this thread on my phone and I think I have marked about half a dozen comments off-topic with my fat fingers. Sorry if one of them was yours.

    By the way, I think the PM takes the political, rather than the legal, loophole and resigns (VONCing himself to start the FTPA clock) a couple of hours before he has to send the letter. No emergency PM arises for, inter alia, all the reasons we have discussed.

    Cummings isn't a legislative affairs guy, he's a how-to-win-votes guy. There's no secret legal plot.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?

    No. I also.
    No and would expect most to know it
    Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?

    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?

    No. I also.
    No and would expect most to know it
    Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
    Dont confuse changing jobs frequently for being shit! When i was working i was the best at several employers, the problem was i either did not agree with the ethics or was hated by other employees due to success who made it a very depressing environment and i wanted to get out! :wink: Life can be very unfair!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598

    MikeL said:

    Whatever the tactics and the pros and cons for each party, this is all pushing things later and later in the year - are we really going to have a GE in December?

    If they wait till after Thurs 31 Oct and then go VONC early the next week it's 7 weeks from Thurs 7 Nov which is Boxing Day!

    OK, if Con party agrees and go 2/3 route, 5 weeks is Thurs 12 Dec. Surely still too late in year / near Christmas.

    I guess if Boris does get extension on Sat 19 Oct then process could all start on Mon 21 Oct which brings each of above dates forward two weeks.

    If Johnson gets an extension on 19 October I think the last thing he will want to do is go into an immediate general election. Farage will be in full betrayal mode and all of Johnson's "do or die" rhetoric will be thrown back at him.
    Indeed – this speaks to the fundamental Catch-22 in all this election speculation.

    The moment the opposition are willing to vote for it is the exact moment the government no longer wants it.
  • Byronic said:
    What do you think? Seriously.....
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:
    What do you think? Seriously.....
    As it's written by a Brexit party evangel, I'd normally dismiss it. BUT the author is Robert Rowland, who is not a total idiot. So I genuinely dunno
  • Mr. Indyref2, have to fill in the NI number every year on a tax return. I'm reasonably sure I know it off the top of my head just from that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?

    No. I also.
    No and would expect most to know it
    Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
    More likely to be evidence that one is actually paying one's correct taxes - one way or another - via the annual tax return and ensuing correspondence.
    Never done a tax return. Although I did have some shares at one point. Obviously they had decreased in value.
    That's certainly possible if one's affairs are simple and don't exceed the relevant allowances.
  • Byronic said:

    Byronic said:
    What do you think? Seriously.....
    As it's written by a Brexit party evangel, I'd normally dismiss it. BUT the author is Robert Rowland, who is not a total idiot. So I genuinely dunno
    His Twitter profile is:

    Robert Rowland
    @RowlandBrexitSE
    @brexitparty_uk
    MEP for the South East. Campaigning against the #brexitbetrayal and to #ChangePoliticsForGood #TungstenTippedBrexiteer


    ... so it's probably fair to say that he's not exactly the most impartial of writers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited September 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Good move from Javid to promise to raise the minimum wage, targeted at precisely the working class Leave voters the Tories need to win a Tory majority

    Last week you were saying it was skilled manual workers - they earn well above minimum wage.
    64% of unskilled DE workers voted Leave, no harm throwing a shot across Corbyn's bow with his core vote

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
  • Mr. Indyref2, have to fill in the NI number every year on a tax return. I'm reasonably sure I know it off the top of my head just from that.

    You pay Capital Gains Tax every year? How much you got left?
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    His Twitter profile is:

    Robert Rowland
    @RowlandBrexitSE
    @brexitparty_uk
    MEP for the South East. Campaigning against the #brexitbetrayal and to #ChangePoliticsForGood #TungstenTippedBrexiteer


    ... so it's probably fair to say that he's not exactly the most impartial of writers.

    Is it true though?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?

    No. I also.
    No and would expect most to know it
    Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?

    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?

    No. I also.
    No and would expect most to know it
    Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
    Dont confuse changing jobs frequently for being shit! When i was working i was the best at several employers, the problem was i either did not agree with the ethics or was hated by other employees due to success who made it a very depressing environment and i wanted to get out! :wink: Life can be very unfair!
    I’m sure they all admired your candid humility, though...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230

    nico67 said:

    I’ll take what the experts say who agree even if Bozo refuses to obey the law the courts will take quick action to make sure he does .

    His threats at the judiciary won’t go down well.

    Good to see you prejudging what the courts will decide. They are truly no longer independent if you can rely upon them to do your bidding.....
    They do that. I have them on standby. I have my instructions piped directly into their brains. Their eyes flash briefly red when I download my instructions.

    Pause.

    OK, I might be making that up... :(
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093

    BBC News - Tory conference: National Living Wage to rise to £10.50, says chancellor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49881980

    Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.

    It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
    And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
    I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them! :blush:
    TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
    It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    Drutt said:

    I have been absent-mindedly scrolling this thread on my phone and I think I have marked about half a dozen comments off-topic with my fat fingers. Sorry if one of them was yours.

    By the way, I think the PM takes the political, rather than the legal, loophole and resigns (VONCing himself to start the FTPA clock) a couple of hours before he has to send the letter. No emergency PM arises for, inter alia, all the reasons we have discussed.

    Cummings isn't a legislative affairs guy, he's a how-to-win-votes guy. There's no secret legal plot.


    What is not mentioned often enough is that as well as employing Cummings, No 10 took on Nikki da Costa too. She is very much a legislative affairs genius.
  • Byronic said:

    Byronic said:
    What do you think? Seriously.....
    As it's written by a Brexit party evangel, I'd normally dismiss it. BUT the author is Robert Rowland, who is not a total idiot. So I genuinely dunno
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:
    What do you think? Seriously.....
    As it's written by a Brexit party evangel, I'd normally dismiss it. BUT the author is Robert Rowland, who is not a total idiot. So I genuinely dunno
    Not like you to be missing your cynicism. Overnight Hammond threatens to sue Brexit mad Telegraph journalist. This afternoon Brexit evangelist finds something hidden in WA and the Telegraph publish it.

    Seriously?
  • I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.

    I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    SunnyJim said:

    I have also come to the conclusion that life is brittle and not every human is able to function as a net giver.

    As I recall there have been studies showing over half of UK households are 'net takers' from the system.
    SunnyJim said:

    I have also come to the conclusion that life is brittle and not every human is able to function as a net giver.

    As I recall there have been studies showing over half of UK households are 'net takers' from the system.
    Yes I can believe that as I seem to remeber in the US in 2012 Romney quoted a figure that made it difficult to win in respect of your point. The interesting point is Labours underperformance given your assertion! :wink:
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Scott_P said:
    But the Tories have long ceased to be a conservative party. They're part of the death cult now.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2019
    SunnyJim said:


    His Twitter profile is:

    Robert Rowland
    @RowlandBrexitSE
    @brexitparty_uk
    MEP for the South East. Campaigning against the #brexitbetrayal and to #ChangePoliticsForGood #TungstenTippedBrexiteer


    ... so it's probably fair to say that he's not exactly the most impartial of writers.

    Is it true though?
    I've no idea, but if it is it seems very odd that no-one has ever mentioned it before, as far as I know.

    Mind you, it is true that all those who most vociferously laid into the WA didn't seem to have actually read it, so maybe he's the first Brexiteer to do so and has found this amazing flaw. Or alternatively it's just bollocks.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230

    viewcode said:

    BBC News - Tory conference: National Living Wage to rise to £10.50, says chancellor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49881980

    Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.

    It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
    And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
    I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them! :blush:
    TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
    So if Corbyn offered you TWELVE POUNDS...you'd take it?... :)
    Very Good - From a personal perspective, being signed off and that, and have never earned 10 fifty in my life- and since they got there first, I'm taking the Tory offer.
    £10.50 per hour, assuming a 37hour week and a 48week year, is £18,500pa.
  • Scott_P said:
    Isn’t this a bit silly?

    Everyone knows he’s a shagger.

    It’s his incompetence and conduct in office as PM that’ll be his downfall. This is a distraction.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    Scott_P said:

    Replacing the PM trying to deliver Brexit with one trying to delay it is literally the only bear trap the Remainers have yet to walk into WRT Boris.

    Whether it’s through a VONC or dismissal, it won’t end well for Remain City when they face Brexit United at home on the return leg....
  • Drutt said:

    BBC News - Tory conference: National Living Wage to rise to £10.50, says chancellor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49881980

    Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.

    It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
    And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
    I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them! :blush:
    TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
    It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.
    So you're saying the National Living Wage has become Livable? Sounds great to me.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    edited September 2019
    Mr. Indyref2, I'm just self-employed.

    Edited extra bit: as a writer, incidentally, so if anyone wants some writing done, give me a bell.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    SunnyJim said:


    His Twitter profile is:

    Robert Rowland
    @RowlandBrexitSE
    @brexitparty_uk
    MEP for the South East. Campaigning against the #brexitbetrayal and to #ChangePoliticsForGood #TungstenTippedBrexiteer


    ... so it's probably fair to say that he's not exactly the most impartial of writers.

    Is it true though?
    I've no idea, but if it is it seems very odd that no-one has ever mentioned it before, as far as I know.

    Mind you, it is true that all those who most vociferously laid into the WA didn't seem to have actually read it, so maybe he's the first Brexiteer to do so and has found this amazing flaw. Or alternaitvely it's just bollocks.
    You commonly brag about how you've studied the WA, unlike everyone else. Yet, as you admit now, you have no idea if this alleged element of it is true.

    So you haven't studied it at all, and your opinion is near worthless.
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    BBC News - Tory conference: National Living Wage to rise to £10.50, says chancellor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49881980

    Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.

    It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
    And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
    I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them! :blush:
    TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
    So if Corbyn offered you TWELVE POUNDS...you'd take it?... :)
    Very Good - From a personal perspective, being signed off and that, and have never earned 10 fifty in my life- and since they got there first, I'm taking the Tory offer.
    £10.50 per hour, assuming a 37hour week and a 48week year, is £18,500pa.
    Okay, I have earned more than that nominally. But still, sounds a good deal to me.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    Drutt said:



    It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.

    CPI is running at 1.7%.

    The Tories are offering OVER 3 TIMES the current rate of inflation to the lowest paid in society.

    You would have to be a swivel-eyed Labour drone to criticize that.

  • I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.

    I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.

    Noone works 35 hours a week.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    It looks like the WA EIB stuff is at least partly true.

    This is from parliament's analysis of the agreement.

    "Under the Withdrawal Agreement, the UK will, over a period of 12 years,
    receive the €3.5 billion of capital it has paid in to the EIB. However, the UK
    will not receive any share of the profits that the EIB has accumulated, nor any
    interest or dividends. Given that this could amount to €7.6 billion, almost 20
    percent of the UK’s obligations under the £35–39 billion financial settlement,
    we regret that the Government has failed to provide an adequate explanation of
    the position taken in the negotiations."

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldeucom/269/269.pdf
  • Scott_P said:
    Isn’t this a bit silly?

    Everyone knows he’s a shagger.

    It’s his incompetence and conduct in office as PM that’ll be his downfall. This is a distraction.
    I would broadly agree if his character wasnt in question generally, and particularly a refusal to apologise. If he said "it was a very long time ago, I dont recollect it at all but if I caused any offence I apologise" that would make a big difference. The character he is playing as PM is not allowed to apologise though, Trump has set the guidelines he follows.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.

    I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.

    Noone works 35 hours a week.
    Quite a lot of people I know work a 35 hour week.
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    BBC News - Tory conference: National Living Wage to rise to £10.50, says chancellor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49881980

    Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.

    It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
    And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
    I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them! :blush:
    TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
    So if Corbyn offered you TWELVE POUNDS...you'd take it?... :)
    Very Good - From a personal perspective, being signed off and that, and have never earned 10 fifty in my life- and since they got there first, I'm taking the Tory offer.
    £10.50 per hour, assuming a 37hour week and a 48week year, is £18,500pa.
    There's 52 weeks in a year and a thing called "holiday pay"
  • Byronic said:

    SunnyJim said:


    His Twitter profile is:

    Robert Rowland
    @RowlandBrexitSE
    @brexitparty_uk
    MEP for the South East. Campaigning against the #brexitbetrayal and to #ChangePoliticsForGood #TungstenTippedBrexiteer


    ... so it's probably fair to say that he's not exactly the most impartial of writers.

    Is it true though?
    I've no idea, but if it is it seems very odd that no-one has ever mentioned it before, as far as I know.

    Mind you, it is true that all those who most vociferously laid into the WA didn't seem to have actually read it, so maybe he's the first Brexiteer to do so and has found this amazing flaw. Or alternaitvely it's just bollocks.
    You commonly brag about how you've studied the WA, unlike everyone else. Yet, as you admit now, you have no idea if this alleged element of it is true.

    So you haven't studied it at all, and your opinion is near worthless.
    No I don't brag about that at all. It's a long document and I've looked at those paragraphs which relate to the stuff which the ERG said made us a vassal state. I don't claim to have gone through all the highly technical bits, such as this, and TBH I'm not qualified to comment on that aspect. I very much suspect Robert Rowland is even less so..
  • Mortimer said:

    Scott_P said:

    Replacing the PM trying to deliver Brexit with one trying to delay it is literally the only bear trap the Remainers have yet to walk into WRT Boris.

    Whether it’s through a VONC or dismissal, it won’t end well for Remain City when they face Brexit United at home on the return leg....
    Will your Golden Rule still be operational when we're still in the EU in 2022 after a series of own goals by Remainers?
  • rpjs said:

    Scott_P said:
    But the Tories have long ceased to be a conservative party. They're part of the death cult now.
    Yep. The Conservative and Unionist party is over. Deceased. The new Trump-style party that it is emerging couldn't conserve or protect a whelk stand never mind the rule of law.
  • Byronic said:

    It looks like the WA EIB stuff is at least partly true.

    This is from parliament's analysis of the agreement.

    "Under the Withdrawal Agreement, the UK will, over a period of 12 years,
    receive the €3.5 billion of capital it has paid in to the EIB. However, the UK
    will not receive any share of the profits that the EIB has accumulated, nor any
    interest or dividends. Given that this could amount to €7.6 billion, almost 20
    percent of the UK’s obligations under the £35–39 billion financial settlement,
    we regret that the Government has failed to provide an adequate explanation of
    the position taken in the negotiations."

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldeucom/269/269.pdf

    OK, fair enough, although the claim made by Rowland goes further than that.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    Mortimer said:

    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?

    No. I also.
    No and would expect most to know it
    Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?

    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?

    No. I also.
    No and would expect most to know it
    Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
    Dont confuse changing jobs frequently for being shit! When i was working i was the best at several employers, the problem was i either did not agree with the ethics or was hated by other employees due to success who made it a very depressing environment and i wanted to get out! :wink: Life can be very unfair!
    I’m sure they all admired your candid humility, though...
    The worst people were made redundant! I opted for voulontary redundancy as i could not work there and they gave me a generous redundancy package and offered a weeks holiday in a four star resort! You might want to think I have not been succesful or be negative about my impact but you are being as petty as the nasty people i worked with. I have done many things in life that have had impact. Have you?
  • HYUFD said:

    Good move from Javid to promise to raise the minimum wage, targeted at precisely the working class Leave voters the Tories need to win a Tory majority

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1178679760018391040
    Whenever someone (usually from the far left) makes proposals for a steep rise of minimum wages in Germany there are questions being asked:

    - will only the min wage rise, the other three out of four workers unaffected?
    -what about the 50% economically inactive, will benefit recipients enjoy the same rises of income?
    -who will pay for the wage rises, will profitability of businesses be affected, or will prices rise?
    -in the likely case of the latter (inflation), how will competitiveness of export businesses be affected?

    Who is asking the Tories these questions?
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    rpjs said:

    Scott_P said:
    But the Tories have long ceased to be a conservative party. They're part of the death cult now.
    Yep. The Conservative and Unionist party is over. Deceased. The new Trump-style party that it is emerging couldn't conserve or protect a whelk stand never mind the rule of law.
    I despise it! Boris is a terrible PM! Worst ever...
  • Mr. Indyref2, I'm just self-employed.

    Edited extra bit: as a writer, incidentally, so if anyone wants some writing done, give me a bell.

    Sorry, being on benefits street I don't need a copywriter or the sort.

    When my mum was earning half the minimum wage as a self-employed child minder she had to do them.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again; capitalism just doesn't work.
  • I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.

    I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.

    Noone works 35 hours a week.
    No-one?

    Many employment contracts are drafted around that. Some more at 37.5 hours per week and another good chunk at 40 hours. It depends.

    It may be that people work more, of course, and it might be different for shift workers but I’ve based it on a 9-5 with an hour for lunch.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230
    edited September 2019
    I was in Waterstones on Saturday, buying "The Rise and Fall of the British Nation: A Twentieth-Century History" (David Edgerton, ISBN: 9780141975979) when I noticed "The Cold War" by John Lewis Gaddis. I had a look at his Waterstone's page[1] and he looks interesting. Has anybody read Gaddis and if so, what did you think?


    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/author/john-lewis-gaddis/60177
  • HYUFD said:

    Good move from Javid to promise to raise the minimum wage, targeted at precisely the working class Leave voters the Tories need to win a Tory majority

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1178679760018391040
    Whenever someone (usually from the far left) makes proposals for a steep rise of minimum wages in Germany there are questions being asked:

    - will only the min wage rise, the other three out of four workers unaffected?
    -what about the 50% economically inactive, will benefit recipients enjoy the same rises of income?
    -who will pay for the wage rises, will profitability of businesses be affected, or will prices rise?
    -in the likely case of the latter (inflation), how will competitiveness of export businesses be affected?

    Who is asking the Tories these questions?
    In the UK the response will be Corbyn offering £12.50 an hour followed by voters getting even angrier that politicians dont keep their promises in 2024.
  • HYUFD said:

    Good move from Javid to promise to raise the minimum wage, targeted at precisely the working class Leave voters the Tories need to win a Tory majority

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1178679760018391040
    Whenever someone (usually from the far left) makes proposals for a steep rise of minimum wages in Germany there are questions being asked:

    - will only the min wage rise, the other three out of four workers unaffected?
    -what about the 50% economically inactive, will benefit recipients enjoy the same rises of income?
    -who will pay for the wage rises, will profitability of businesses be affected, or will prices rise?
    -in the likely case of the latter (inflation), how will competitiveness of export businesses be affected?

    Who is asking the Tories these questions?
    Those are excellent questions, but the opposition are certainly not asking them. They are asking only why more free money isn't being doled out more quickly.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    It looks like the WA EIB stuff is at least partly true.

    This is from parliament's analysis of the agreement.

    "Under the Withdrawal Agreement, the UK will, over a period of 12 years,
    receive the €3.5 billion of capital it has paid in to the EIB. However, the UK
    will not receive any share of the profits that the EIB has accumulated, nor any
    interest or dividends. Given that this could amount to €7.6 billion, almost 20
    percent of the UK’s obligations under the £35–39 billion financial settlement,
    we regret that the Government has failed to provide an adequate explanation of
    the position taken in the negotiations."

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldeucom/269/269.pdf

    OK, fair enough, although the claim made by Rowland goes further than that.
    The WA does seem to be a shockingly bad deal. Almost as if some of the UK and EU negotiators decided to make it so dreadful, MPs would vote against, and in the end we would stay.

    I detect an echo here.
  • Mr. Indyref2, capitalism works a hell of a lot better than socialism.
  • I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.

    I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.

    Noone works 35 hours a week.
    No-one?

    Many employment contracts are drafted around that. Some more at 37.5 hours per week and another good chunk at 40 hours. It depends.

    It may be that people work more, of course, and it might be different for shift workers but I’ve based it on a 9-5 with an hour for lunch.
    hour long lunches are a bit old school I thought - but if people you know are working 35 hours fair play to them. We work to live not live to work after all (unless you get lucky like me and just have to watch sky news/sports, post on PB and pray to Coffey everyday)
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    BBC News - Tory conference: National Living Wage to rise to £10.50, says chancellor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49881980

    Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.

    It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
    And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
    I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them! :blush:
    TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
    So if Corbyn offered you TWELVE POUNDS...you'd take it?... :)
    Very Good - From a personal perspective, being signed off and that, and have never earned 10 fifty in my life- and since they got there first, I'm taking the Tory offer.
    £10.50 per hour, assuming a 37hour week and a 48week year, is £18,500pa.
    There's 52 weeks in a year and a thing called "holiday pay"
    Not to be too old fashioned about it but it kind of depends if you’re on a salary, according to an employment contract, or paid an hourly wage for regular clocked hours.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093
    SunnyJim said:

    Drutt said:



    It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.

    CPI is running at 1.7%.

    The Tories are offering OVER 3 TIMES the current rate of inflation to the lowest paid in society.

    You would have to be a swivel-eyed Labour drone to criticize that.

    If you look back through my postings you'll recognise I'm nothing of the sort. I don't like the idea of a government telling employees and employers what the price of the former's labour must be at all. I do, though, like to see a greater labour share of income. I don't think NMW or NLW is the best way to go about it

    But the figures are the figures. It's an increase, but in the context of current wage growth it's a modest increase. We shouldn't lose our shit over it.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:

    The WA does seem to be a shockingly bad deal. Almost as if some of the UK and EU negotiators decided to make it so dreadful, MPs would vote against, and in the end we would stay.

    I detect an echo here.

    It simply reflects our weak bargaining position. Why would anyone be surprised that we don't great a brilliant deal when the alternative is dramatically worse for us?
  • viewcode said:

    I was in Waterstones on Saturday, buying "The Rise and Fall of the British Nation: A Twentieth-Century History" (David Edgerton, ISBN: 9780141975979) when I noticed "The Cold War" by John Lewis Gaddis. I had a look at his Waterstone's page[1] and he looks interesting. Has anybody read Gaddis and if so, what did you think?


    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/author/john-lewis-gaddis/60177

    Related note, I've got Cameron's auto-bio. Anyone else? I'll read it quicker and give you the best bits if no-one else has.
  • I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.

    I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.

    Noone works 35 hours a week.
    No-one?

    Many employment contracts are drafted around that. Some more at 37.5 hours per week and another good chunk at 40 hours. It depends.

    It may be that people work more, of course, and it might be different for shift workers but I’ve based it on a 9-5 with an hour for lunch.
    hour long lunches are a bit old school I thought - but if people you know are working 35 hours fair play to them. We work to live not live to work after all (unless you get lucky like me and just have to watch sky news/sports, post on PB and pray to Coffey everyday)
    My contracted hours are 40 hours per week, personally, and i work between 45-50 a week. So not too bad.

    TfL and other public bodies operate off 35 hours.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    BBC News - Tory conference: National Living Wage to rise to £10.50, says chancellor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49881980

    Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.

    It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
    And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
    I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them! :blush:
    TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
    So if Corbyn offered you TWELVE POUNDS...you'd take it?... :)
    Very Good - From a personal perspective, being signed off and that, and have never earned 10 fifty in my life- and since they got there first, I'm taking the Tory offer.
    £10.50 per hour, assuming a 37hour week and a 48week year, is £18,500pa.
    There's 52 weeks in a year and a thing called "holiday pay"
    I used to be freelance, so I assume a 48week year (you don't get paid for bank holidays, holidays, etc). I don't know how it works with minimum pay: my poor period (well, one of them :( ) predates the minimum wage, and by the later one I could improvise.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670

    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?

    No. I also.
    No and would expect most to know it
    Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
    Given you only ever get issued one NI number it most certainly must have been.
  • Mr. Indyref2, capitalism works a hell of a lot better than socialism.

    Sorry, I forgot I'm a PB Tory now, can't see how or why I managed to blurt that out.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093

    Drutt said:

    BBC News - Tory conference: National Living Wage to rise to £10.50, says chancellor
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49881980

    Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.

    It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
    And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
    I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them! :blush:
    TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
    It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.
    So you're saying the National Living Wage has become Livable? Sounds great to me.
    My comment was just the figures. But the figures are a two-edged sword. It's neither so mean a policy as to be consumed by inflation, nor so profligate as to be a major drama.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    HYUFD said:

    Good move from Javid to promise to raise the minimum wage, targeted at precisely the working class Leave voters the Tories need to win a Tory majority

    What about nationalising the trains?

    Tomorrow?
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Byronic said:

    The WA does seem to be a shockingly bad deal. Almost as if some of the UK and EU negotiators decided to make it so dreadful, MPs would vote against, and in the end we would stay.

    I detect an echo here.

    It simply reflects our weak bargaining position. Why would anyone be surprised that we don't great a brilliant deal when the alternative is dramatically worse for us?
    I thought you thought it was a brilliant deal?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670
    Mortimer said:

    I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.

    I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.

    Noone works 35 hours a week.
    Quite a lot of people I know work a 35 hour week.
    35 hours is part time
  • Drutt said:

    SunnyJim said:

    Drutt said:



    It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.

    CPI is running at 1.7%.

    The Tories are offering OVER 3 TIMES the current rate of inflation to the lowest paid in society.

    You would have to be a swivel-eyed Labour drone to criticize that.

    If you look back through my postings you'll recognise I'm nothing of the sort. I don't like the idea of a government telling employees and employers what the price of the former's labour must be at all. I do, though, like to see a greater labour share of income. I don't think NMW or NLW is the best way to go about it

    But the figures are the figures. It's an increase, but in the context of current wage growth it's a modest increase. We shouldn't lose our shit over it.
    I, for one, am totally losing my shit over it.

    Labour were a calling with their banning of private schools and 32 hours.

    But Tories have just played their pocket rockets.

    I judge parties by their policies and I can sit on the fence no more.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    The WA does seem to be a shockingly bad deal. Almost as if some of the UK and EU negotiators decided to make it so dreadful, MPs would vote against, and in the end we would stay.

    I detect an echo here.

    It simply reflects our weak bargaining position. Why would anyone be surprised that we don't great a brilliant deal when the alternative is dramatically worse for us?
    I thought you thought it was a brilliant deal?
    Yes, I'm confused as well.
  • Anyway, I'm off. Play nicely, everyone.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093

    HYUFD said:

    Good move from Javid to promise to raise the minimum wage, targeted at precisely the working class Leave voters the Tories need to win a Tory majority

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1178679760018391040
    Whenever someone (usually from the far left) makes proposals for a steep rise of minimum wages in Germany there are questions being asked:

    - will only the min wage rise, the other three out of four workers unaffected?
    -what about the 50% economically inactive, will benefit recipients enjoy the same rises of income?
    -who will pay for the wage rises, will profitability of businesses be affected, or will prices rise?
    -in the likely case of the latter (inflation), how will competitiveness of export businesses be affected?

    Who is asking the Tories these questions?
    The answers would be: yes, no, employers, negatively.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    edited September 2019
    Drutt said:


    If you look back through my postings you'll recognise I'm nothing of the sort. I don't like the idea of a government telling employees and employers what the price of the former's labour must be at all. I do, though, like to see a greater labour share of income. I don't think NMW or NLW is the best way to go about it

    But the figures are the figures. It's an increase, but in the context of current wage growth it's a modest increase. We shouldn't lose our shit over it.

    I wasn't suggesting you were, although on re-reading I can see how it could be inferred.

    I was referencing the deeply tribal Labour supporters who mindlessly criticize even if they would be delighted with a particular policy if it came from their side.

    It is just embarrassing.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670
    edited September 2019
    I see Boris is trying to get Scotland back on side.

    Boris Johnson tells ScotTories he will block Scotland's First Minister from COP26 global climate change summit in Glasgow and cover it in union flags
    https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1178621160046632960
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2019

    Byronic said:

    The WA does seem to be a shockingly bad deal. Almost as if some of the UK and EU negotiators decided to make it so dreadful, MPs would vote against, and in the end we would stay.

    I detect an echo here.

    It simply reflects our weak bargaining position. Why would anyone be surprised that we don't great a brilliant deal when the alternative is dramatically worse for us?
    I thought you thought it was a brilliant deal?
    The concession our side got on the backstop was a major achievement (so it's really bizarre that this is the bit that got most flak). Otherwise it's much as expected: the best available given the poor starting position.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    viewcode said:

    I was in Waterstones on Saturday, buying "The Rise and Fall of the British Nation: A Twentieth-Century History" (David Edgerton, ISBN: 9780141975979) when I noticed "The Cold War" by John Lewis Gaddis. I had a look at his Waterstone's page[1] and he looks interesting. Has anybody read Gaddis and if so, what did you think?


    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/author/john-lewis-gaddis/60177

    Ii have not see that!

    Might be worth a look!
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    SunnyJim said:

    Drutt said:



    It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.

    CPI is running at 1.7%.

    The Tories are offering OVER 3 TIMES the current rate of inflation to the lowest paid in society.

    You would have to be a swivel-eyed Labour drone to criticize that.

    Point of order: if Labour is offering £10/hr from 2020 with inflationary rises, then the Tories are offering less. So criticising it is legitimate.
    I'm not, by the way. This is good step forward from both parties.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230

    viewcode said:

    I was in Waterstones on Saturday, buying "The Rise and Fall of the British Nation: A Twentieth-Century History" (David Edgerton, ISBN: 9780141975979) when I noticed "The Cold War" by John Lewis Gaddis. I had a look at his Waterstone's page[1] and he looks interesting. Has anybody read Gaddis and if so, what did you think?


    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/author/john-lewis-gaddis/60177

    Ii have not see that!

    Might be worth a look!
    Which one: Edgerton or Gaddis?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,559

    Re: Republicans in the NYT

    Simply put it's them and us. I'm sure many Republicans in their hearts don't agree with everything Trump says or does but they still like him a lot better than the likes of Pelosi or Sanders.

    The left are no better. Look at the way, Labour brushed away the Bercow bullying allegations as we was on their side over Brexit. Look at the way Momentum operate.

    Indeed.
    Corbyn/Johnson - two cheeks etc.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited September 2019
    Thanks for the article, an explanation for why political parties exist. In these uncertain times, necessity is the mother of invention. If we discover that (according to HYUFD this morning) Boris and Orban have been trading arms for vetos, this will be solved.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    malcolmg said:

    I see Boris is trying to get Scotland back on side.

    Boris Johnson tells ScotTories he will block Scotland's First Minister from COP26 global climate change summit in Glasgow and cover it in union flags

    If Boris gets Brexit done either pre or post GE what would you estimate the likelihood of Sindyref 2 being won by the SNP?

    It would surely be greater than 50/50 would it not?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    malcolmg said:

    I see Boris is trying to get Scotland back on side.

    Boris Johnson tells ScotTories he will block Scotland's First Minister from COP26 global climate change summit in Glasgow and cover it in union flags
    https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1178621160046632960

    Do you think he would be doing that if the FM was a Conservative?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Mr. Indyref2, have to fill in the NI number every year on a tax return. I'm reasonably sure I know it off the top of my head just from that.

    You pay Capital Gains Tax every year? How much you got left?
    Tax returns self assessment, self employed, higher rate tax payers, etc unfortunately once you have to fill one in they never let you go, my wife has had zero income for 12 years or more but I still have to complete one for her.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    If I laugh any harder I will injure myself...

    https://twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1178708715857416192
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093

    Drutt said:

    SunnyJim said:

    Drutt said:



    It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.

    CPI is running at 1.7%.

    The Tories are offering OVER 3 TIMES the current rate of inflation to the lowest paid in society.

    You would have to be a swivel-eyed Labour drone to criticize that.

    If you look back through my postings you'll recognise I'm nothing of the sort. I don't like the idea of a government telling employees and employers what the price of the former's labour must be at all. I do, though, like to see a greater labour share of income. I don't think NMW or NLW is the best way to go about it

    But the figures are the figures. It's an increase, but in the context of current wage growth it's a modest increase. We shouldn't lose our shit over it.
    I, for one, am totally losing my shit over it.

    Labour were a calling with their banning of private schools and 32 hours.

    But Tories have just played their pocket rockets.

    I judge parties by their policies and I can sit on the fence no more.
    The 32 hours a week policy, on the same review, is actually a policy that nobody gets a pay rise for eight years but at the end you'll only be working four days a week.

    Also bear in mind that if you're on NMW now, the best way to get a raise over a five year period is not to wait for HMG to mandate it for you
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    As a way of calming things, here's some soothing if off-topic news

    THE SWEDISH NAVY IS RETURNING TO ITS VAST UNDERGROUND LAIR

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/30/swedish-navy-returns-to-vast-underground-hq-amid-russia-fears
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Mortimer said:

    I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.

    I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.

    Noone works 35 hours a week.
    Quite a lot of people I know work a 35 hour week.
    Never heard of zero hours contracts Mr B?
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I was in Waterstones on Saturday, buying "The Rise and Fall of the British Nation: A Twentieth-Century History" (David Edgerton, ISBN: 9780141975979) when I noticed "The Cold War" by John Lewis Gaddis. I had a look at his Waterstone's page[1] and he looks interesting. Has anybody read Gaddis and if so, what did you think?


    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/author/john-lewis-gaddis/60177

    Ii have not see that!

    Might be worth a look!
    Which one: Edgerton or Gaddis?
    Both! I am drawn to the former!
This discussion has been closed.