Thankfully the opposition parties have seen sense and not fallen for a trap .
To have tried to VONC Bozo now would have allowed him to say they ruined negotiations as allegedly concrete proposals will be put forward early next week .
Secondly the 21 Tory rebels are reluctant to pull the plug, some want the whip back and others want to be seen to giving him a chance to secure a deal.
The off record briefings about a loophole in the Benn Act were a desperate attempt to frighten the opposition into an early VONC.
The so called loopholes are just more nonsense from Cummings .
But if they are not nonsense, they have lost time to do something about them......
So they will have fallen for the trap.
I’ll take what the experts say who agree even if Bozo refuses to obey the law the courts will take quick action to make sure he does .
His threats at the judiciary won’t go down well.
Good to see you prejudging what the courts will decide. They are truly no longer independent if you can rely upon them to do your bidding.....
Good point. If I drive at 130mph on the A1(M) and get caught I have no idea what will happen.
You might. Especially if you happen to know the police haven't propery calibrated their speed guns.....
Thankfully the opposition parties have seen sense and not fallen for a trap .
To have tried to VONC Bozo now would have allowed him to say they ruined negotiations as allegedly concrete proposals will be put forward early next week .
Secondly the 21 Tory rebels are reluctant to pull the plug, some want the whip back and others want to be seen to giving him a chance to secure a deal.
The off record briefings about a loophole in the Benn Act were a desperate attempt to frighten the opposition into an early VONC.
The so called loopholes are just more nonsense from Cummings .
But if they are not nonsense, they have lost time to do something about them......
So they will have fallen for the trap.
I’ll take what the experts say who agree even if Bozo refuses to obey the law the courts will take quick action to make sure he does .
His threats at the judiciary won’t go down well.
Good to see you prejudging what the courts will decide. They are truly no longer independent if you can rely upon them to do your bidding.....
Clearly you haven’t read the experts views on the so called loopholes . The courts will uphold the law . And please spare us the faux outrage over the independence of the judiciary . I said before the SC case I’d respect their ruling if it went for the government , they’re the experts . Sadly Leavers only respect judges and other bodies if they agree with them . The so called Leave mantra to get back parliamentary sovereignty and British judges deciding is yet another pack of lies . Leavers seem instead to want to live in a dictatorship given the insults hurled at the judges whose decision means a future PM doesn’t have unrestricted power .
Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.
It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them!
Parties change very rapidly. No reason to be ashamed of supporting them pre 2019 nor supporting Labour pre 2015. No reason not to consider either of them again when they return to their senses.
Thats a good point. I think i am a centrerist. Some movements economically and socially are necessary but i believe it is a slow process. Too much too soon is bad. Hence my opposition to no deal brexit! I have also come to the conclusion that life is brittle and not every human is able to function as a net giver. Some state intervention is not only necessary but desirable.
Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?
No. I also.
No and would expect most to know it
Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
More likely to be evidence that one is actually paying one's correct taxes - one way or another - via the annual tax return and ensuing correspondence.
It makes complete sense. Use him up, then toss him aside like a scrunched-up tissue.
You do get decidely tumescent when you discuss thwarting Brexit. But chacun son gout.
Incidentally, you imply in your more blood-curdling posts that there is a way of reversing Brexit, and it will happen "in due course" etc etc. What is it?
Genuine question. I am quite neutral on Brexit these days. The fires have burned out. I have no more energy to expend on it, as it sucks in all energy. So vexing is pointless.
But I am still curious as to how it might pan out, and welcome theories thereto.
Are you saying your diamond hard-on is now flaccid?
Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?
No. I also.
No and would expect most to know it
Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
More likely to be evidence that one is actually paying one's correct taxes - one way or another - via the annual tax return and ensuing correspondence.
Never done a tax return. Although I did have some shares at one point. Obviously they had decreased in value.
Thankfully the opposition parties have seen sense and not fallen for a trap .
To have tried to VONC Bozo now would have allowed him to say they ruined negotiations as allegedly concrete proposals will be put forward early next week .
Secondly the 21 Tory rebels are reluctant to pull the plug, some want the whip back and others want to be seen to giving him a chance to secure a deal.
The off record briefings about a loophole in the Benn Act were a desperate attempt to frighten the opposition into an early VONC.
The so called loopholes are just more nonsense from Cummings .
But if they are not nonsense, they have lost time to do something about them......
So they will have fallen for the trap.
I’ll take what the experts say who agree even if Bozo refuses to obey the law the courts will take quick action to make sure he does .
His threats at the judiciary won’t go down well.
Good to see you prejudging what the courts will decide. They are truly no longer independent if you can rely upon them to do your bidding.....
Good point. If I drive at 130mph on the A1(M) and get caught I have no idea what will happen.
You might. Especially if you happen to know the police haven't propery calibrated their speed guns.....
In North Yorkshire Police area , they have no fixed speed cameras. They have mobile speed vans , which go to differing areas each day. The vans are manned by civilians. I believe the fines collected , pay for the wages , vehicles, and equipment.
I have been absent-mindedly scrolling this thread on my phone and I think I have marked about half a dozen comments off-topic with my fat fingers. Sorry if one of them was yours.
By the way, I think the PM takes the political, rather than the legal, loophole and resigns (VONCing himself to start the FTPA clock) a couple of hours before he has to send the letter. No emergency PM arises for, inter alia, all the reasons we have discussed.
Cummings isn't a legislative affairs guy, he's a how-to-win-votes guy. There's no secret legal plot.
Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?
No. I also.
No and would expect most to know it
Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
Dont confuse changing jobs frequently for being shit! When i was working i was the best at several employers, the problem was i either did not agree with the ethics or was hated by other employees due to success who made it a very depressing environment and i wanted to get out! Life can be very unfair!
Whatever the tactics and the pros and cons for each party, this is all pushing things later and later in the year - are we really going to have a GE in December?
If they wait till after Thurs 31 Oct and then go VONC early the next week it's 7 weeks from Thurs 7 Nov which is Boxing Day!
OK, if Con party agrees and go 2/3 route, 5 weeks is Thurs 12 Dec. Surely still too late in year / near Christmas.
I guess if Boris does get extension on Sat 19 Oct then process could all start on Mon 21 Oct which brings each of above dates forward two weeks.
If Johnson gets an extension on 19 October I think the last thing he will want to do is go into an immediate general election. Farage will be in full betrayal mode and all of Johnson's "do or die" rhetoric will be thrown back at him.
Indeed – this speaks to the fundamental Catch-22 in all this election speculation.
The moment the opposition are willing to vote for it is the exact moment the government no longer wants it.
Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?
No. I also.
No and would expect most to know it
Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
More likely to be evidence that one is actually paying one's correct taxes - one way or another - via the annual tax return and ensuing correspondence.
Never done a tax return. Although I did have some shares at one point. Obviously they had decreased in value.
That's certainly possible if one's affairs are simple and don't exceed the relevant allowances.
As it's written by a Brexit party evangel, I'd normally dismiss it. BUT the author is Robert Rowland, who is not a total idiot. So I genuinely dunno
His Twitter profile is:
Robert Rowland @RowlandBrexitSE @brexitparty_uk MEP for the South East. Campaigning against the #brexitbetrayal and to #ChangePoliticsForGood #TungstenTippedBrexiteer
... so it's probably fair to say that he's not exactly the most impartial of writers.
Robert Rowland @RowlandBrexitSE @brexitparty_uk MEP for the South East. Campaigning against the #brexitbetrayal and to #ChangePoliticsForGood #TungstenTippedBrexiteer
... so it's probably fair to say that he's not exactly the most impartial of writers.
Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?
No. I also.
No and would expect most to know it
Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
Dont confuse changing jobs frequently for being shit! When i was working i was the best at several employers, the problem was i either did not agree with the ethics or was hated by other employees due to success who made it a very depressing environment and i wanted to get out! Life can be very unfair!
I’m sure they all admired your candid humility, though...
I’ll take what the experts say who agree even if Bozo refuses to obey the law the courts will take quick action to make sure he does .
His threats at the judiciary won’t go down well.
Good to see you prejudging what the courts will decide. They are truly no longer independent if you can rely upon them to do your bidding.....
They do that. I have them on standby. I have my instructions piped directly into their brains. Their eyes flash briefly red when I download my instructions.
Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.
It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them!
TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.
I have been absent-mindedly scrolling this thread on my phone and I think I have marked about half a dozen comments off-topic with my fat fingers. Sorry if one of them was yours.
By the way, I think the PM takes the political, rather than the legal, loophole and resigns (VONCing himself to start the FTPA clock) a couple of hours before he has to send the letter. No emergency PM arises for, inter alia, all the reasons we have discussed.
Cummings isn't a legislative affairs guy, he's a how-to-win-votes guy. There's no secret legal plot.
What is not mentioned often enough is that as well as employing Cummings, No 10 took on Nikki da Costa too. She is very much a legislative affairs genius.
As it's written by a Brexit party evangel, I'd normally dismiss it. BUT the author is Robert Rowland, who is not a total idiot. So I genuinely dunno
Not like you to be missing your cynicism. Overnight Hammond threatens to sue Brexit mad Telegraph journalist. This afternoon Brexit evangelist finds something hidden in WA and the Telegraph publish it.
I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.
I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.
I have also come to the conclusion that life is brittle and not every human is able to function as a net giver.
As I recall there have been studies showing over half of UK households are 'net takers' from the system.
Yes I can believe that as I seem to remeber in the US in 2012 Romney quoted a figure that made it difficult to win in respect of your point. The interesting point is Labours underperformance given your assertion!
Robert Rowland @RowlandBrexitSE @brexitparty_uk MEP for the South East. Campaigning against the #brexitbetrayal and to #ChangePoliticsForGood #TungstenTippedBrexiteer
... so it's probably fair to say that he's not exactly the most impartial of writers.
Is it true though?
I've no idea, but if it is it seems very odd that no-one has ever mentioned it before, as far as I know.
Mind you, it is true that all those who most vociferously laid into the WA didn't seem to have actually read it, so maybe he's the first Brexiteer to do so and has found this amazing flaw. Or alternatively it's just bollocks.
Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.
It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them!
TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
So if Corbyn offered you TWELVE POUNDS...you'd take it?...
Very Good - From a personal perspective, being signed off and that, and have never earned 10 fifty in my life- and since they got there first, I'm taking the Tory offer.
£10.50 per hour, assuming a 37hour week and a 48week year, is £18,500pa.
Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.
It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them!
TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.
So you're saying the National Living Wage has become Livable? Sounds great to me.
Robert Rowland @RowlandBrexitSE @brexitparty_uk MEP for the South East. Campaigning against the #brexitbetrayal and to #ChangePoliticsForGood #TungstenTippedBrexiteer
... so it's probably fair to say that he's not exactly the most impartial of writers.
Is it true though?
I've no idea, but if it is it seems very odd that no-one has ever mentioned it before, as far as I know.
Mind you, it is true that all those who most vociferously laid into the WA didn't seem to have actually read it, so maybe he's the first Brexiteer to do so and has found this amazing flaw. Or alternaitvely it's just bollocks.
You commonly brag about how you've studied the WA, unlike everyone else. Yet, as you admit now, you have no idea if this alleged element of it is true.
So you haven't studied it at all, and your opinion is near worthless.
Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.
It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them!
TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
So if Corbyn offered you TWELVE POUNDS...you'd take it?...
Very Good - From a personal perspective, being signed off and that, and have never earned 10 fifty in my life- and since they got there first, I'm taking the Tory offer.
£10.50 per hour, assuming a 37hour week and a 48week year, is £18,500pa.
Okay, I have earned more than that nominally. But still, sounds a good deal to me.
I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.
I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.
It looks like the WA EIB stuff is at least partly true.
This is from parliament's analysis of the agreement.
"Under the Withdrawal Agreement, the UK will, over a period of 12 years, receive the €3.5 billion of capital it has paid in to the EIB. However, the UK will not receive any share of the profits that the EIB has accumulated, nor any interest or dividends. Given that this could amount to €7.6 billion, almost 20 percent of the UK’s obligations under the £35–39 billion financial settlement, we regret that the Government has failed to provide an adequate explanation of the position taken in the negotiations."
It’s his incompetence and conduct in office as PM that’ll be his downfall. This is a distraction.
I would broadly agree if his character wasnt in question generally, and particularly a refusal to apologise. If he said "it was a very long time ago, I dont recollect it at all but if I caused any offence I apologise" that would make a big difference. The character he is playing as PM is not allowed to apologise though, Trump has set the guidelines he follows.
I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.
I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.
Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.
It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them!
TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
So if Corbyn offered you TWELVE POUNDS...you'd take it?...
Very Good - From a personal perspective, being signed off and that, and have never earned 10 fifty in my life- and since they got there first, I'm taking the Tory offer.
£10.50 per hour, assuming a 37hour week and a 48week year, is £18,500pa.
There's 52 weeks in a year and a thing called "holiday pay"
Robert Rowland @RowlandBrexitSE @brexitparty_uk MEP for the South East. Campaigning against the #brexitbetrayal and to #ChangePoliticsForGood #TungstenTippedBrexiteer
... so it's probably fair to say that he's not exactly the most impartial of writers.
Is it true though?
I've no idea, but if it is it seems very odd that no-one has ever mentioned it before, as far as I know.
Mind you, it is true that all those who most vociferously laid into the WA didn't seem to have actually read it, so maybe he's the first Brexiteer to do so and has found this amazing flaw. Or alternaitvely it's just bollocks.
You commonly brag about how you've studied the WA, unlike everyone else. Yet, as you admit now, you have no idea if this alleged element of it is true.
So you haven't studied it at all, and your opinion is near worthless.
No I don't brag about that at all. It's a long document and I've looked at those paragraphs which relate to the stuff which the ERG said made us a vassal state. I don't claim to have gone through all the highly technical bits, such as this, and TBH I'm not qualified to comment on that aspect. I very much suspect Robert Rowland is even less so..
But the Tories have long ceased to be a conservative party. They're part of the death cult now.
Yep. The Conservative and Unionist party is over. Deceased. The new Trump-style party that it is emerging couldn't conserve or protect a whelk stand never mind the rule of law.
It looks like the WA EIB stuff is at least partly true.
This is from parliament's analysis of the agreement.
"Under the Withdrawal Agreement, the UK will, over a period of 12 years, receive the €3.5 billion of capital it has paid in to the EIB. However, the UK will not receive any share of the profits that the EIB has accumulated, nor any interest or dividends. Given that this could amount to €7.6 billion, almost 20 percent of the UK’s obligations under the £35–39 billion financial settlement, we regret that the Government has failed to provide an adequate explanation of the position taken in the negotiations."
Am I unusual in knowing my NI number off by heart?
No. I also.
No and would expect most to know it
Was it an Urban (or my internal family) Myth that knowing it off by heart was a sign that you were rubbish at work and had had a lot of jobs?
Dont confuse changing jobs frequently for being shit! When i was working i was the best at several employers, the problem was i either did not agree with the ethics or was hated by other employees due to success who made it a very depressing environment and i wanted to get out! Life can be very unfair!
I’m sure they all admired your candid humility, though...
The worst people were made redundant! I opted for voulontary redundancy as i could not work there and they gave me a generous redundancy package and offered a weeks holiday in a four star resort! You might want to think I have not been succesful or be negative about my impact but you are being as petty as the nasty people i worked with. I have done many things in life that have had impact. Have you?
Whenever someone (usually from the far left) makes proposals for a steep rise of minimum wages in Germany there are questions being asked:
- will only the min wage rise, the other three out of four workers unaffected? -what about the 50% economically inactive, will benefit recipients enjoy the same rises of income? -who will pay for the wage rises, will profitability of businesses be affected, or will prices rise? -in the likely case of the latter (inflation), how will competitiveness of export businesses be affected?
But the Tories have long ceased to be a conservative party. They're part of the death cult now.
Yep. The Conservative and Unionist party is over. Deceased. The new Trump-style party that it is emerging couldn't conserve or protect a whelk stand never mind the rule of law.
I despise it! Boris is a terrible PM! Worst ever...
I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.
I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.
Noone works 35 hours a week.
No-one?
Many employment contracts are drafted around that. Some more at 37.5 hours per week and another good chunk at 40 hours. It depends.
It may be that people work more, of course, and it might be different for shift workers but I’ve based it on a 9-5 with an hour for lunch.
I was in Waterstones on Saturday, buying "The Rise and Fall of the British Nation: A Twentieth-Century History" (David Edgerton, ISBN: 9780141975979) when I noticed "The Cold War" by John Lewis Gaddis. I had a look at his Waterstone's page[1] and he looks interesting. Has anybody read Gaddis and if so, what did you think?
Whenever someone (usually from the far left) makes proposals for a steep rise of minimum wages in Germany there are questions being asked:
- will only the min wage rise, the other three out of four workers unaffected? -what about the 50% economically inactive, will benefit recipients enjoy the same rises of income? -who will pay for the wage rises, will profitability of businesses be affected, or will prices rise? -in the likely case of the latter (inflation), how will competitiveness of export businesses be affected?
Who is asking the Tories these questions?
In the UK the response will be Corbyn offering £12.50 an hour followed by voters getting even angrier that politicians dont keep their promises in 2024.
Whenever someone (usually from the far left) makes proposals for a steep rise of minimum wages in Germany there are questions being asked:
- will only the min wage rise, the other three out of four workers unaffected? -what about the 50% economically inactive, will benefit recipients enjoy the same rises of income? -who will pay for the wage rises, will profitability of businesses be affected, or will prices rise? -in the likely case of the latter (inflation), how will competitiveness of export businesses be affected?
Who is asking the Tories these questions?
Those are excellent questions, but the opposition are certainly not asking them. They are asking only why more free money isn't being doled out more quickly.
It looks like the WA EIB stuff is at least partly true.
This is from parliament's analysis of the agreement.
"Under the Withdrawal Agreement, the UK will, over a period of 12 years, receive the €3.5 billion of capital it has paid in to the EIB. However, the UK will not receive any share of the profits that the EIB has accumulated, nor any interest or dividends. Given that this could amount to €7.6 billion, almost 20 percent of the UK’s obligations under the £35–39 billion financial settlement, we regret that the Government has failed to provide an adequate explanation of the position taken in the negotiations."
OK, fair enough, although the claim made by Rowland goes further than that.
The WA does seem to be a shockingly bad deal. Almost as if some of the UK and EU negotiators decided to make it so dreadful, MPs would vote against, and in the end we would stay.
I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.
I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.
Noone works 35 hours a week.
No-one?
Many employment contracts are drafted around that. Some more at 37.5 hours per week and another good chunk at 40 hours. It depends.
It may be that people work more, of course, and it might be different for shift workers but I’ve based it on a 9-5 with an hour for lunch.
hour long lunches are a bit old school I thought - but if people you know are working 35 hours fair play to them. We work to live not live to work after all (unless you get lucky like me and just have to watch sky news/sports, post on PB and pray to Coffey everyday)
Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.
It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them!
TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
So if Corbyn offered you TWELVE POUNDS...you'd take it?...
Very Good - From a personal perspective, being signed off and that, and have never earned 10 fifty in my life- and since they got there first, I'm taking the Tory offer.
£10.50 per hour, assuming a 37hour week and a 48week year, is £18,500pa.
There's 52 weeks in a year and a thing called "holiday pay"
Not to be too old fashioned about it but it kind of depends if you’re on a salary, according to an employment contract, or paid an hourly wage for regular clocked hours.
It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.
CPI is running at 1.7%.
The Tories are offering OVER 3 TIMES the current rate of inflation to the lowest paid in society.
You would have to be a swivel-eyed Labour drone to criticize that.
If you look back through my postings you'll recognise I'm nothing of the sort. I don't like the idea of a government telling employees and employers what the price of the former's labour must be at all. I do, though, like to see a greater labour share of income. I don't think NMW or NLW is the best way to go about it
But the figures are the figures. It's an increase, but in the context of current wage growth it's a modest increase. We shouldn't lose our shit over it.
The WA does seem to be a shockingly bad deal. Almost as if some of the UK and EU negotiators decided to make it so dreadful, MPs would vote against, and in the end we would stay.
I detect an echo here.
It simply reflects our weak bargaining position. Why would anyone be surprised that we don't great a brilliant deal when the alternative is dramatically worse for us?
I was in Waterstones on Saturday, buying "The Rise and Fall of the British Nation: A Twentieth-Century History" (David Edgerton, ISBN: 9780141975979) when I noticed "The Cold War" by John Lewis Gaddis. I had a look at his Waterstone's page[1] and he looks interesting. Has anybody read Gaddis and if so, what did you think?
I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.
I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.
Noone works 35 hours a week.
No-one?
Many employment contracts are drafted around that. Some more at 37.5 hours per week and another good chunk at 40 hours. It depends.
It may be that people work more, of course, and it might be different for shift workers but I’ve based it on a 9-5 with an hour for lunch.
hour long lunches are a bit old school I thought - but if people you know are working 35 hours fair play to them. We work to live not live to work after all (unless you get lucky like me and just have to watch sky news/sports, post on PB and pray to Coffey everyday)
My contracted hours are 40 hours per week, personally, and i work between 45-50 a week. So not too bad.
Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.
It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them!
TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
So if Corbyn offered you TWELVE POUNDS...you'd take it?...
Very Good - From a personal perspective, being signed off and that, and have never earned 10 fifty in my life- and since they got there first, I'm taking the Tory offer.
£10.50 per hour, assuming a 37hour week and a 48week year, is £18,500pa.
There's 52 weeks in a year and a thing called "holiday pay"
I used to be freelance, so I assume a 48week year (you don't get paid for bank holidays, holidays, etc). I don't know how it works with minimum pay: my poor period (well, one of them ) predates the minimum wage, and by the later one I could improvise.
Why on earth are we setting this 5 years in advance? What if there is deflation in that time? Or 10% inflation? Its not exactly the most predictable economy ever at the moment.
It is meaningless, apart from confirming the country is being managed for opinion poll outcomes, not economic (or other socially good) outcomes.
And it's not a commitment - like Labour's 32-hour week over 10 years, it's something they will "aim to" do. I'm not especially cynical about politics, but there is wriggle room there.
I have long taken the view that as society develops it is only logical that it becomes more social democratic. From my perspective it seems to be only that technology has not yet evolved to a level sustainable level to cut working hours and also some parts of the world will always be able to do things cheaper by human activity. Personally i have been on a political journey from a Tory to a progressive, even as a Tory i was always worried about human impacts. The Tories now are so repulsive i am embarassed i ever supported them!
TEN POUNDS FIFTY!
It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.
So you're saying the National Living Wage has become Livable? Sounds great to me.
My comment was just the figures. But the figures are a two-edged sword. It's neither so mean a policy as to be consumed by inflation, nor so profligate as to be a major drama.
The WA does seem to be a shockingly bad deal. Almost as if some of the UK and EU negotiators decided to make it so dreadful, MPs would vote against, and in the end we would stay.
I detect an echo here.
It simply reflects our weak bargaining position. Why would anyone be surprised that we don't great a brilliant deal when the alternative is dramatically worse for us?
I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.
I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.
It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.
CPI is running at 1.7%.
The Tories are offering OVER 3 TIMES the current rate of inflation to the lowest paid in society.
You would have to be a swivel-eyed Labour drone to criticize that.
If you look back through my postings you'll recognise I'm nothing of the sort. I don't like the idea of a government telling employees and employers what the price of the former's labour must be at all. I do, though, like to see a greater labour share of income. I don't think NMW or NLW is the best way to go about it
But the figures are the figures. It's an increase, but in the context of current wage growth it's a modest increase. We shouldn't lose our shit over it.
I, for one, am totally losing my shit over it.
Labour were a calling with their banning of private schools and 32 hours.
But Tories have just played their pocket rockets.
I judge parties by their policies and I can sit on the fence no more.
The WA does seem to be a shockingly bad deal. Almost as if some of the UK and EU negotiators decided to make it so dreadful, MPs would vote against, and in the end we would stay.
I detect an echo here.
It simply reflects our weak bargaining position. Why would anyone be surprised that we don't great a brilliant deal when the alternative is dramatically worse for us?
Whenever someone (usually from the far left) makes proposals for a steep rise of minimum wages in Germany there are questions being asked:
- will only the min wage rise, the other three out of four workers unaffected? -what about the 50% economically inactive, will benefit recipients enjoy the same rises of income? -who will pay for the wage rises, will profitability of businesses be affected, or will prices rise? -in the likely case of the latter (inflation), how will competitiveness of export businesses be affected?
Who is asking the Tories these questions?
The answers would be: yes, no, employers, negatively.
If you look back through my postings you'll recognise I'm nothing of the sort. I don't like the idea of a government telling employees and employers what the price of the former's labour must be at all. I do, though, like to see a greater labour share of income. I don't think NMW or NLW is the best way to go about it
But the figures are the figures. It's an increase, but in the context of current wage growth it's a modest increase. We shouldn't lose our shit over it.
I wasn't suggesting you were, although on re-reading I can see how it could be inferred.
I was referencing the deeply tribal Labour supporters who mindlessly criticize even if they would be delighted with a particular policy if it came from their side.
The WA does seem to be a shockingly bad deal. Almost as if some of the UK and EU negotiators decided to make it so dreadful, MPs would vote against, and in the end we would stay.
I detect an echo here.
It simply reflects our weak bargaining position. Why would anyone be surprised that we don't great a brilliant deal when the alternative is dramatically worse for us?
I thought you thought it was a brilliant deal?
The concession our side got on the backstop was a major achievement (so it's really bizarre that this is the bit that got most flak). Otherwise it's much as expected: the best available given the poor starting position.
I was in Waterstones on Saturday, buying "The Rise and Fall of the British Nation: A Twentieth-Century History" (David Edgerton, ISBN: 9780141975979) when I noticed "The Cold War" by John Lewis Gaddis. I had a look at his Waterstone's page[1] and he looks interesting. Has anybody read Gaddis and if so, what did you think?
It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.
CPI is running at 1.7%.
The Tories are offering OVER 3 TIMES the current rate of inflation to the lowest paid in society.
You would have to be a swivel-eyed Labour drone to criticize that.
Point of order: if Labour is offering £10/hr from 2020 with inflationary rises, then the Tories are offering less. So criticising it is legitimate. I'm not, by the way. This is good step forward from both parties.
I was in Waterstones on Saturday, buying "The Rise and Fall of the British Nation: A Twentieth-Century History" (David Edgerton, ISBN: 9780141975979) when I noticed "The Cold War" by John Lewis Gaddis. I had a look at his Waterstone's page[1] and he looks interesting. Has anybody read Gaddis and if so, what did you think?
Simply put it's them and us. I'm sure many Republicans in their hearts don't agree with everything Trump says or does but they still like him a lot better than the likes of Pelosi or Sanders.
The left are no better. Look at the way, Labour brushed away the Bercow bullying allegations as we was on their side over Brexit. Look at the way Momentum operate.
Thanks for the article, an explanation for why political parties exist. In these uncertain times, necessity is the mother of invention. If we discover that (according to HYUFD this morning) Boris and Orban have been trading arms for vetos, this will be solved.
Mr. Indyref2, have to fill in the NI number every year on a tax return. I'm reasonably sure I know it off the top of my head just from that.
You pay Capital Gains Tax every year? How much you got left?
Tax returns self assessment, self employed, higher rate tax payers, etc unfortunately once you have to fill one in they never let you go, my wife has had zero income for 12 years or more but I still have to complete one for her.
It's 5.5% a year. Average wage inflation is 4% right now.
CPI is running at 1.7%.
The Tories are offering OVER 3 TIMES the current rate of inflation to the lowest paid in society.
You would have to be a swivel-eyed Labour drone to criticize that.
If you look back through my postings you'll recognise I'm nothing of the sort. I don't like the idea of a government telling employees and employers what the price of the former's labour must be at all. I do, though, like to see a greater labour share of income. I don't think NMW or NLW is the best way to go about it
But the figures are the figures. It's an increase, but in the context of current wage growth it's a modest increase. We shouldn't lose our shit over it.
I, for one, am totally losing my shit over it.
Labour were a calling with their banning of private schools and 32 hours.
But Tories have just played their pocket rockets.
I judge parties by their policies and I can sit on the fence no more.
The 32 hours a week policy, on the same review, is actually a policy that nobody gets a pay rise for eight years but at the end you'll only be working four days a week.
Also bear in mind that if you're on NMW now, the best way to get a raise over a five year period is not to wait for HMG to mandate it for you
I think this means a full time (35 hours a week working 233 days a year) wage is about £17,100 in 2024, but that equates to about £15,500 today, in real terms, so not quite as generous as it looks in nominal.
I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.
I was in Waterstones on Saturday, buying "The Rise and Fall of the British Nation: A Twentieth-Century History" (David Edgerton, ISBN: 9780141975979) when I noticed "The Cold War" by John Lewis Gaddis. I had a look at his Waterstone's page[1] and he looks interesting. Has anybody read Gaddis and if so, what did you think?
Comments
I might have a flutter.
Any chance we could get her back? The past two months have made her reign feel like an oasis of honesty, decency and sound judgement. And NO GROPING
They have mobile speed vans , which go to differing areas each day.
The vans are manned by civilians.
I believe the fines collected , pay for the wages , vehicles, and equipment.
By the way, I think the PM takes the political, rather than the legal, loophole and resigns (VONCing himself to start the FTPA clock) a couple of hours before he has to send the letter. No emergency PM arises for, inter alia, all the reasons we have discussed.
Cummings isn't a legislative affairs guy, he's a how-to-win-votes guy. There's no secret legal plot.
The moment the opposition are willing to vote for it is the exact moment the government no longer wants it.
Robert Rowland
@RowlandBrexitSE
@brexitparty_uk
MEP for the South East. Campaigning against the #brexitbetrayal and to #ChangePoliticsForGood #TungstenTippedBrexiteer
... so it's probably fair to say that he's not exactly the most impartial of writers.
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
Pause.
OK, I might be making that up...
What is not mentioned often enough is that as well as employing Cummings, No 10 took on Nikki da Costa too. She is very much a legislative affairs genius.
Seriously?
I’d hope The Saj would cut employer NI rates to help them pay for it too, and mitigate impact on employment.
Mind you, it is true that all those who most vociferously laid into the WA didn't seem to have actually read it, so maybe he's the first Brexiteer to do so and has found this amazing flaw. Or alternatively it's just bollocks.
Everyone knows he’s a shagger.
It’s his incompetence and conduct in office as PM that’ll be his downfall. This is a distraction.
Replacing the PM trying to deliver Brexit with one trying to delay it is literally the only bear trap the Remainers have yet to walk into WRT Boris.
Whether it’s through a VONC or dismissal, it won’t end well for Remain City when they face Brexit United at home on the return leg....
Edited extra bit: as a writer, incidentally, so if anyone wants some writing done, give me a bell.
So you haven't studied it at all, and your opinion is near worthless.
The Tories are offering OVER 3 TIMES the current rate of inflation to the lowest paid in society.
You would have to be a swivel-eyed Labour drone to criticize that.
This is from parliament's analysis of the agreement.
"Under the Withdrawal Agreement, the UK will, over a period of 12 years,
receive the €3.5 billion of capital it has paid in to the EIB. However, the UK
will not receive any share of the profits that the EIB has accumulated, nor any
interest or dividends. Given that this could amount to €7.6 billion, almost 20
percent of the UK’s obligations under the £35–39 billion financial settlement,
we regret that the Government has failed to provide an adequate explanation of
the position taken in the negotiations."
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldeucom/269/269.pdf
- will only the min wage rise, the other three out of four workers unaffected?
-what about the 50% economically inactive, will benefit recipients enjoy the same rises of income?
-who will pay for the wage rises, will profitability of businesses be affected, or will prices rise?
-in the likely case of the latter (inflation), how will competitiveness of export businesses be affected?
Who is asking the Tories these questions?
When my mum was earning half the minimum wage as a self-employed child minder she had to do them.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again; capitalism just doesn't work.
Many employment contracts are drafted around that. Some more at 37.5 hours per week and another good chunk at 40 hours. It depends.
It may be that people work more, of course, and it might be different for shift workers but I’ve based it on a 9-5 with an hour for lunch.
[1] https://www.waterstones.com/author/john-lewis-gaddis/60177
I detect an echo here.
But the figures are the figures. It's an increase, but in the context of current wage growth it's a modest increase. We shouldn't lose our shit over it.
TfL and other public bodies operate off 35 hours.
Tomorrow?
Labour were a calling with their banning of private schools and 32 hours.
But Tories have just played their pocket rockets.
I judge parties by their policies and I can sit on the fence no more.
I was referencing the deeply tribal Labour supporters who mindlessly criticize even if they would be delighted with a particular policy if it came from their side.
It is just embarrassing.
Boris Johnson tells ScotTories he will block Scotland's First Minister from COP26 global climate change summit in Glasgow and cover it in union flags
https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1178621160046632960
Might be worth a look!
I'm not, by the way. This is good step forward from both parties.
Corbyn/Johnson - two cheeks etc.
It would surely be greater than 50/50 would it not?
https://twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1178708715857416192
Also bear in mind that if you're on NMW now, the best way to get a raise over a five year period is not to wait for HMG to mandate it for you
THE SWEDISH NAVY IS RETURNING TO ITS VAST UNDERGROUND LAIR
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/30/swedish-navy-returns-to-vast-underground-hq-amid-russia-fears