politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » To add to BoJo’s woes it’s Corbyn not the PM who’ll decide whe
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If article 50 is revoked and trump is impeached do Leicester City have to return their champions medals?0
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I wonder how much thought went into the FTPA at the time, especially consideration of how it might work in circumstances other than were found in 2010?eristdoof said:
You mean like a coalition agreement covering 5 years of government being written and signed off within 6 days.kle4 said:
Sudden major changes as a backlash to a specific event are rarely well thought through good ideas.HYUFD said:As I was saying....
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1176823526399139840?s=200 -
That is extraordinary. An Open Borders policy with the EU, in return for... nothing.TGOHF2 said:0 -
All this has exposed is that Boris never had a serious and credible plan to achieve a deal, and hence very little chance of getting one in the time available.Gabs2 said:
But parliament is doing the opposite of giving him a fair crack of the whip. They have deliberately limited his leverage by blocking one course of action, while separately negotiating independently with the EU to stop the other course. We have the opposition in parliament taking a direct opposite foreign policy to the government, while keeping the government in power, purely for political reasons.Gardenwalker said:We desperately need a GE.
But first, Boris needs to deliver on his promise that he can get a Deal.
That is the promise he made to the Tory Party and to the country: “Do or Die” by October 31.
Since he seems to have spent his entire time since 2016 hanging out with No Dealers, plotting against Dealers, and has now promoted a bunch of No Dealers to Cabinet while attempting to suspend democratic norms and alienating anyone with a sense of right and wrong — it is true, that “Die” looks more likely at this point.
But he should be given a fair crack of the whip.0 -
Agreed. That the American Federal System has 3 branches the legislature, the executive and the judiciary is considered to be common basic knowledge in the US.viewcode said:
One good thing the Americans did (but no longer do?) is civics lessons, where these processes are taught in school. I would like to see that here.
The basics of politics and the constitution is also as good as compulsory in German schools. If you want to get German Citizenship you have to pass a test devoted to this subject.
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MyBurningEars said:
This should put to bed any lingering suspicions on here that you are Sean Thomas...not a man I'd have had down as an Argos shopper!Byronic said:On the main topic of the day...
Argos.
I find them incredibly useful. And I do a ton of shopping online.
About 90% of the time, if I decide I need something desperately - i.e. right now - I can go to Argos online, find it there, reserve it, walk 5 mins to my local store, and pick it up. Amazon will never beat that.
Argos offers instant and reliable gratification, which is a very modern thing. They should be fine, unless their management is wholly inept.
His being one of the few PB’ers within five minutes walk of an Argos store is rather evidence to the contrary!0 -
We have been talking about this for well over 3 years now, I cannot see any way in which Johnson is going to get through a GE pretending he can still satisfy those who will only settle for no deal as well as those who only want to leave with a deal. He is entirely dishonest, everyone will know that the minute the election is out of the way he is going to sh1t on one side or the other. It's untenable.HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extendkle4 said:Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.
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@Mortimer
I can confirm the goodness of Argos bookshelves. I have five already, and I'm trying to work out a way of combining them with a desk to create more room for a sixth, seventh and eighth. They are almost as good as IKEA and are very sturdy, but they don't have the notch at the back to fit a skirting board. However given the price and the location, I think they have the edge. Plus they look wicked cool when they line up...
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"Impose law" is a funny way of putting it.Pulpstar said:
The sum of Lord Sumption's comment simply don't add through to this being the case.viewcode said:
The Judiciary. Decides if the law has been broken (can be subcontracted to a jury) and what the punishment is. Does not impose law.
The Supreme Court has clearly decided it can impose law if it decides the executive is attempting to ride roughshod over the legislature.
The judges decided - unanimously - that the exercise of the royal prerogative is subject to common law, and that this advice clearly breached common law.
They did their job. Thank God someone in a position of authority in this country is still in possession of their senses and still using them.0 -
All unsuccessful lawyers must resign!Scott_P said:0 -
We can take consultation from knowing that our citizens know all about the wives of Henry VIIIeristdoof said:
Agreed. That the American Federal System has 3 branches the legislature, the executive and the judiciary is considered to be common basic knowledge in the US.viewcode said:
One good thing the Americans did (but no longer do?) is civics lessons, where these processes are taught in school. I would like to see that here.
The basics of politics and the constitution is also as good as compulsory in German schools. If you want to get German Citizenship you have to pass a test devoted to this subject.0 -
What is extraordinary is that Labour are proposing a suite of policies more far left in totality than ever proposed before in this country by a major political party...Byronic said:
That is extraordinary. An Open Borders policy with the EU, in return for... nothing.TGOHF2 said:
...and that the media would rather talk about Cox’s booming baritone or whatever shite is the dead cat du jour.
Corbyn is STILL getting a free pass.0 -
This is dignitas's business model.Gallowgate said:
Why doesn’t he resign now to save time?HYUFD said:
If the EU have not agreed the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop on October 17th by the 19th I suspectGallowgate said:
So when is he going to resign?HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extendkle4 said:Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.
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I did not know that, thank you.eristdoof said:
Agreed. That the American Federal System has 3 branches the legislature, the executive and the judiciary is considered to be common basic knowledge in the US.viewcode said:
One good thing the Americans did (but no longer do?) is civics lessons, where these processes are taught in school. I would like to see that here.
The basics of politics and the constitution is also as good as compulsory in German schools. If you want to get German Citizenship you have to pass a test devoted to this subject.0 -
Reading all 3 tweets, this is like PM Johnson going to Brussels to ask for an extension but having his fingers crossed behind his back, "so it doesn't count".TGOHF2 said:
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Gallowgate said:
Cox’s tantrum about an election reeks of desperation.
I remember his tantrum about MPs acting like children rather than legislators in thinking that no deal was a reasonable course of action.0 -
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This is just Boris banter.eristdoof said:
Reading all 3 tweets, this is like PM Johnson going to Brussels to ask for an extension but having his fingers crossed behind his back, "so it doesn't count".TGOHF2 said:
It can be safely ignored.
Peston would report it as such if he was able to do his job properly.0 -
No doubt the rebel alliance will be passing another Act to close off any loopholes. There's a convenient opportunity to do so next week, when many Tory MPs will be in Manchester.eristdoof said:
Reading all 3 tweets, this is like PM Johnson going to Brussels to ask for an extension but having his fingers crossed behind his back, "so it doesn't count".TGOHF2 said:0 -
Subsample news gone mainstream!Scott_P said:0 -
viewcode said:
@Mortimer
I can confirm the goodness of Argos bookshelves. I have five already, and I'm trying to work out a way of combining them with a desk to create more room for a sixth, seventh and eighth. They are almost as good as IKEA and are very sturdy, but they don't have the notch at the back to fit a skirting board. However given the price and the location, I think they have the edge. Plus they look wicked cool when they line up...
If you use the Maine bookcases, I’d suggest checking stock levels pronto. I tried to order a few more for our back office at the shop yesterday and found they didn’t have any for home delivery. So I cleared out the local stores of the walnut variety, just in case.viewcode said:@Mortimer
I can confirm the goodness of Argos bookshelves. I have five already, and I'm trying to work out a way of combining them with a desk to create more room for a sixth, seventh and eighth. They are almost as good as IKEA and are very sturdy, but they don't have the notch at the back to fit a skirting board. However given the price and the location, I think they have the edge. Plus they look wicked cool when they line up...
And yes - they look great lined up! I think we have 20 or so in total...
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Yes. I looked at the Citizens Test for the UK. It included questions like when was the last time the UK was in a war with France on the other side! The cost if the UK test is also outrageously high, in Germany it costs 25 Euros.IanB2 said:
We can take consultation from knowing that our citizens know all about the wives of Henry VIIIeristdoof said:
Agreed. That the American Federal System has 3 branches the legislature, the executive and the judiciary is considered to be common basic knowledge in the US.viewcode said:
One good thing the Americans did (but no longer do?) is civics lessons, where these processes are taught in school. I would like to see that here.
The basics of politics and the constitution is also as good as compulsory in German schools. If you want to get German Citizenship you have to pass a test devoted to this subject.
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+1 for civics classes.eristdoof said:
Agreed. That the American Federal System has 3 branches the legislature, the executive and the judiciary is considered to be common basic knowledge in the US.viewcode said:
One good thing the Americans did (but no longer do?) is civics lessons, where these processes are taught in school. I would like to see that here.
The basics of politics and the constitution is also as good as compulsory in German schools. If you want to get German Citizenship you have to pass a test devoted to this subject.
Every American kid has seen this video:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=tyeJ55o3El0
It’s so well known that comedians do parodies of it!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=JUDSeb2zHQ00 -
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.
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The media have possibly learned their lesson from last time when they massacred forests to highlight the horrid left-wing policies, and people said "actually that sounds rather good".Gardenwalker said:
What is extraordinary is that Labour are proposing a suite of policies more far left in totality than ever proposed before in this country by a major political party...Byronic said:
That is extraordinary. An Open Borders policy with the EU, in return for... nothing.TGOHF2 said:
...and that the media would rather talk about Cox’s booming baritone or whatever shite is the dead cat du jour.
Corbyn is STILL getting a free pass.
But mainly, the press are best regarded as an entertainment medium. Booming baritones make better copy than the establishment of state supplier of generics. Unfortunately. You do realise that Cox is dead-catting here?0 -
What time is the PM statement??0
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You've forgotten to take your medication again, haven't you?Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.1 -
Absolutely. In such a scenario Mr Powell's famous quotation may literally happen.Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.0 -
The Comres in the Tele last night has the question should the UK leave with or without a deal. 47% said yes, 31% said remain. Can not read too much into it but it could be that the leavers have a preference for no deal or deal but are prepared to accept the alternative as acceptable over not leaving.OllyT said:
We have been talking about this for well over 3 years now, I cannot see any way in which Johnson is going to get through a GE pretending he can still satisfy those who will only settle for no deal as well as those who only want to leave with a deal. He is entirely dishonest, everyone will know that the minute the election is out of the way he is going to sh1t on one side or the other. It's untenable.HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extendkle4 said:Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.
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And resigning as PM is hardly going to enhance his reputation as a responsible Prime Minister.OllyT said:
We have been talking about this for well over 3 years now, I cannot see any way in which Johnson is going to get through a GE pretending he can still satisfy those who will only settle for no deal as well as those who only want to leave with a deal. He is entirely dishonest, everyone will know that the minute the election is out of the way he is going to sh1t on one side or the other. It's untenable.HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extendkle4 said:Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.
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If the question had been "should the UK leave without a deal?" does anyone believe the answer would have been 47%?ralphmalph said:
The Comres in the Tele last night has the question should the UK leave with or without a deal. 47% said yes, 31% said remain. Can not read too much into it but it could be that the leavers have a preference for no deal or deal but are prepared to accept the alternative as acceptable over not leaving.OllyT said:
We have been talking about this for well over 3 years now, I cannot see any way in which Johnson is going to get through a GE pretending he can still satisfy those who will only settle for no deal as well as those who only want to leave with a deal. He is entirely dishonest, everyone will know that the minute the election is out of the way he is going to sh1t on one side or the other. It's untenable.HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extendkle4 said:Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.
What's the highest level of support ever recorded for that act of lunacy?0 -
Perfectly sane and sober. Anyone who isn't horrified by the implications of Labour's proposals - should they ever reach power - isn't sentient.Chris said:
You've forgotten to take your medication again, haven't you?Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.0 -
Not heard of Matt Warman before but was quite impressed by what I saw of him there.0
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I’m still waiting to have the whip hand over you lot.ozymandias said:
Absolutely. In such a scenario Mr Powell's famous quotation may literally happen.Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.1 -
God knows what you're going to be like after No Deal, if it happens. You could be unmedicated for weeks!Byronic said:
Perfectly sane and sober. Anyone who isn't horrified by the implications of Labour's proposals - should they ever reach power - isn't sentient.Chris said:
You've forgotten to take your medication again, haven't you?Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.0 -
Ah, Nick, I'd be interested in how you are going to spin Corbyn's latest lunatic wheeze of reneging on decades of international patent treaties and trashing EU intellectual property law. You can't conceivably think this is realistic, let alone desirable, so how on earth do you support this nonsense?NickPalmer said:
The media have possibly learned their lesson from last time when they massacred forests to highlight the horrid left-wing policies, and people said "actually that sounds rather good".Gardenwalker said:
What is extraordinary is that Labour are proposing a suite of policies more far left in totality than ever proposed before in this country by a major political party...Byronic said:
That is extraordinary. An Open Borders policy with the EU, in return for... nothing.TGOHF2 said:
...and that the media would rather talk about Cox’s booming baritone or whatever shite is the dead cat du jour.
Corbyn is STILL getting a free pass.
But mainly, the press are best regarded as an entertainment medium. Booming baritones make better copy than the establishment of state supplier of generics. Unfortunately. You do realise that Cox is dead-catting here?1 -
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1176842642338041859?s=21eristdoof said:
Reading all 3 tweets, this is like PM Johnson going to Brussels to ask for an extension but having his fingers crossed behind his back, "so it doesn't count".TGOHF2 said:0 -
Don’t worry sustained No Deal will stop people wanting to come over here.Byronic said:
Perfectly sane and sober. Anyone who isn't horrified by the implications of Labour's proposals - should they ever reach power - isn't sentient.Chris said:
You've forgotten to take your medication again, haven't you?Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.0 -
You can't read anything into ComRes subsidiary questions, they let their clients go the full Sir Humphrey on them. The toplines are probably not too bad, but if they differ with a more reputable pollster, believe the reputable pollster.ralphmalph said:
The Comres in the Tele last night has the question should the UK leave with or without a deal. 47% said yes, 31% said remain. Can not read too much into it but it could be that the leavers have a preference for no deal or deal but are prepared to accept the alternative as acceptable over not leaving.OllyT said:
We have been talking about this for well over 3 years now, I cannot see any way in which Johnson is going to get through a GE pretending he can still satisfy those who will only settle for no deal as well as those who only want to leave with a deal. He is entirely dishonest, everyone will know that the minute the election is out of the way he is going to sh1t on one side or the other. It's untenable.HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extendkle4 said:Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.
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I'm with Francis on the Argos Issue. Seems to me that high street stores only have 3 ways to appeal:viewcode said:@Mortimer
I can confirm the goodness of Argos bookshelves. I have five already, and I'm trying to work out a way of combining them with a desk to create more room for a sixth, seventh and eighth. They are almost as good as IKEA and are very sturdy, but they don't have the notch at the back to fit a skirting board. However given the price and the location, I think they have the edge. Plus they look wicked cool when they line up...
1) They sell goods that you actually need to see/feel, e.g. shoes
2) They sell goods for which you need knowledgeable advice on the spot, e.g. computers
3) They are endearingly local, so people like to pop in and chat to the owners while they get something
Argos fails all three. You can't see the goods any more than you can on Amazon - less, in fact, in their austere Soviet-style concrete outlets. Their assistants know little and care less about their thousands of products. And they are anonymous with a capital A. The only thing that keeps them going is that DIYers who know exactly what they want (so they don't need to look at it) find they can get things a bit more cheaply there. That's ultimately a niche market.0 -
Quite incredible. Labour activists seem determined to lose the election. This policy alone will guarantee a shellacking loss unless something utterly unbelievable has happened to the British electorate in the last few years.ozymandias said:
Absolutely. In such a scenario Mr Powell's famous quotation may literally happen.Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.0 -
The opposition has already bagged it's first prize. The earliest GE now possible is after the " do or die " deadline. Now the Battle Royale for the main prize - forcing the A50 extension. As soon as the opposition starts floating alternative dates - when not if - the GE will take place then this becomes a process story.
I'lll be interested to see the emotional reaction to the news a GE is on. Does the country *really* want all that now it's getting darker and thoughts turn to Christmas ? Or will it be quite happy to put it off till new year al9ng with the diet, joining the gym and paying off the credit card ?0 -
Seems like exactly the right thing to leak - get remainers rushing back to court to stop the PM doing XY and Z - every time they do it’s worth lots of votes.Gardenwalker said:
This is just Boris banter.eristdoof said:
Reading all 3 tweets, this is like PM Johnson going to Brussels to ask for an extension but having his fingers crossed behind his back, "so it doesn't count".TGOHF2 said:
It can be safely ignored.
Peston would report it as such if he was able to do his job properly.0 -
Don’t be harsh. He’s given me the best laugh in ages when he got his Lord Kerrs mixed up.Chris said:
God knows what you're going to be like after No Deal, if it happens. You could be unmedicated for weeks!Byronic said:
Perfectly sane and sober. Anyone who isn't horrified by the implications of Labour's proposals - should they ever reach power - isn't sentient.Chris said:
You've forgotten to take your medication again, haven't you?Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.0 -
You think 1m people a year moving to UK wont deliver a Far Right or extreme populist government?Chris said:
You've forgotten to take your medication again, haven't you?Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.0 -
The UK citizenship test reads like a crap pub quiz.eristdoof said:
Yes. I looked at the Citizens Test for the UK. It included questions like when was the last time the UK was in a war with France on the other side! The cost if the UK test is also outrageously high, in Germany it costs 25 Euros.IanB2 said:
We can take consultation from knowing that our citizens know all about the wives of Henry VIIIeristdoof said:
Agreed. That the American Federal System has 3 branches the legislature, the executive and the judiciary is considered to be common basic knowledge in the US.viewcode said:
One good thing the Americans did (but no longer do?) is civics lessons, where these processes are taught in school. I would like to see that here.
The basics of politics and the constitution is also as good as compulsory in German schools. If you want to get German Citizenship you have to pass a test devoted to this subject.0 -
Is 1942 the correct answer?eristdoof said:
Yes. I looked at the Citizens Test for the UK. It included questions like when was the last time the UK was in a war with France on the other side! The cost if the UK test is also outrageously high, in Germany it costs 25 Euros.IanB2 said:
We can take consultation from knowing that our citizens know all about the wives of Henry VIIIeristdoof said:
Agreed. That the American Federal System has 3 branches the legislature, the executive and the judiciary is considered to be common basic knowledge in the US.viewcode said:
One good thing the Americans did (but no longer do?) is civics lessons, where these processes are taught in school. I would like to see that here.
The basics of politics and the constitution is also as good as compulsory in German schools. If you want to get German Citizenship you have to pass a test devoted to this subject.
0 -
I volunteered to take it for a story by the local paper, when I was part of running the local council. I did fine thanks to distantly remembered history studies, but there were very few questions aimed at what you might call modern British culture or life, and those that there were seemed superficial. It looked like Gove had written it during a lunch break.eristdoof said:
Yes. I looked at the Citizens Test for the UK. It included questions like when was the last time the UK was in a war with France on the other side! The cost if the UK test is also outrageously high, in Germany it costs 25 Euros.IanB2 said:
We can take consultation from knowing that our citizens know all about the wives of Henry VIIIeristdoof said:
Agreed. That the American Federal System has 3 branches the legislature, the executive and the judiciary is considered to be common basic knowledge in the US.viewcode said:
One good thing the Americans did (but no longer do?) is civics lessons, where these processes are taught in school. I would like to see that here.
The basics of politics and the constitution is also as good as compulsory in German schools. If you want to get German Citizenship you have to pass a test devoted to this subject.0 -
Not that France. The France.Foxy said:
Is 1942 the correct answer?eristdoof said:
Yes. I looked at the Citizens Test for the UK. It included questions like when was the last time the UK was in a war with France on the other side! The cost if the UK test is also outrageously high, in Germany it costs 25 Euros.IanB2 said:
We can take consultation from knowing that our citizens know all about the wives of Henry VIIIeristdoof said:
Agreed. That the American Federal System has 3 branches the legislature, the executive and the judiciary is considered to be common basic knowledge in the US.viewcode said:
One good thing the Americans did (but no longer do?) is civics lessons, where these processes are taught in school. I would like to see that here.
The basics of politics and the constitution is also as good as compulsory in German schools. If you want to get German Citizenship you have to pass a test devoted to this subject.0 -
I remind you your honour you recently suggested "I piss off" in relation to a post I made about Boris Johnson. Perhaps you have anger management problems?Wulfrun_Phil said:
I am asking myself why the fuck should I continue posting here when the likes of you inhabit this site. There are people of opposing views that you can have a reasoned debate with. Then there is the likes of you and your gratuitous insults. Christ knows this site is not the place it once was.Nigel_Foremain said:
To state you have to be very dim indeed to believe no-deal is a legitimate course of action is a very polite English understatement. Thick as pigshit would still be understating it.Gardenwalker said:
The truth hurts sometimes.Wulfrun_Phil said:
Might you consider engaging in debate here without insulting people whose comments you disagree with?Gardenwalker said:
Sorry.
Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.0 -
Both videos are great. Thanks for posting!Sandpit said:
+1 for civics classes.eristdoof said:
Agreed. That the American Federal System has 3 branches the legislature, the executive and the judiciary is considered to be common basic knowledge in the US.viewcode said:
One good thing the Americans did (but no longer do?) is civics lessons, where these processes are taught in school. I would like to see that here.
The basics of politics and the constitution is also as good as compulsory in German schools. If you want to get German Citizenship you have to pass a test devoted to this subject.
Every American kid has seen this video:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=tyeJ55o3El0
It’s so well known that comedians do parodies of it!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=JUDSeb2zHQ01 -
You cannot disagree that completely unrestrained immigration, with benefits and voting rights to all is a very, very dangerous policy to have. Which is why no country does it.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’m still waiting to have the whip hand over you lot.ozymandias said:
Absolutely. In such a scenario Mr Powell's famous quotation may literally happen.Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.
Immigration itself is fine. And necessary. But it must be managed.0 -
He’s also manages to the miss all the abusive posts his fellow Leaver Richard Tyndall throws about.Roger said:
I remind you your honour you recently suggested "I piss off" in relation to a post I made about Boris Johnson. Perhaps you have anger management ptroblems?Wulfrun_Phil said:
I am asking myself why the fuck should I continue posting here when the likes of you inhabit this site. There are people of opposing views that you can have a reasoned debate with. Then there is the likes of you and your gratuitous insults. Christ knows this site is not the place it once was.Nigel_Foremain said:
To state you have to be very dim indeed to believe no-deal is a legitimate course of action is a very polite English understatement. Thick as pigshit would still be understating it.Gardenwalker said:
The truth hurts sometimes.Wulfrun_Phil said:
Might you consider engaging in debate here without insulting people whose comments you disagree with?Gardenwalker said:
Sorry.
Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.
Remarkable.
0 -
Ooh, I can cash in all my lays? Although doubtless Betfair won’t pay out until 1 November.Yellow_Submarine said:The opposition has already bagged it's first prize. The earliest GE now possible is after the " do or die " deadline. Now the Battle Royale for the main prize - forcing the A50 extension. As soon as the opposition starts floating alternative dates - when not if - the GE will take place then this becomes a process story.
I'lll be interested to see the emotional reaction to the news a GE is on. Does the country *really* want all that now it's getting darker and thoughts turn to Christmas ? Or will it be quite happy to put it off till new year al9ng with the diet, joining the gym and paying off the credit card ?0 -
I agree.ozymandias said:
You cannot disagree that completely unrestrained immigration, with benefits and voting rights to all is a very, very dangerous policy to have. Which is why no country does it.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’m still waiting to have the whip hand over you lot.ozymandias said:
Absolutely. In such a scenario Mr Powell's famous quotation may literally happen.Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.
Immigration itself is fine. And necessary. But it must be managed.0 -
And actually the Supreme Court judgment did explicitly refer to this principle in their judgment - for the benefit of the terminal thick, the prime minister, the law officers and so on.Gallowgate said:
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1176842642338041859?s=21eristdoof said:
Reading all 3 tweets, this is like PM Johnson going to Brussels to ask for an extension but having his fingers crossed behind his back, "so it doesn't count".TGOHF2 said:0 -
Johnson: "It is vital that the Conservatives win this election to prevent Corbyn fromeristdoof said:
And resigning as PM is hardly going to enhance his reputation as a responsible Prime Minister.OllyT said:
We have been talking about this for well over 3 years now, I cannot see any way in which Johnson is going to get through a GE pretending he can still satisfy those who will only settle for no deal as well as those who only want to leave with a deal. He is entirely dishonest, everyone will know that the minute the election is out of the way he is going to sh1t on one side or the other. It's untenable.HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extendkle4 said:Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.
becomingremaining as Prime Minister as he is a threat to the security and prosperity of this great - "
Everyone else: "Why did you resign as Prime Minister so that Corbyn could take office?"
Johnson: "I, er, well - that is an excellent question! An excellent question! I am so glad you asked that question. It is... It is because..."0 -
To be fair, the great Mike Smithson himself called me a "boring fart" and a "saddo" who should "get a life", just this morning. So the tenor is set by the management?TheScreamingEagles said:
He’s also manages to the miss all the abusive posts his fellow Leaver Richard Tyndall throws about.Roger said:
I remind you your honour you recently suggested "I piss off" in relation to a post I made about Boris Johnson. Perhaps you have anger management ptroblems?Wulfrun_Phil said:
I am asking myself why the fuck should I continue posting here when the likes of you inhabit this site. There are people of opposing views that you can have a reasoned debate with. Then there is the likes of you and your gratuitous insults. Christ knows this site is not the place it once was.Nigel_Foremain said:
To state you have to be very dim indeed to believe no-deal is a legitimate course of action is a very polite English understatement. Thick as pigshit would still be understating it.Gardenwalker said:
The truth hurts sometimes.Wulfrun_Phil said:
Might you consider engaging in debate here without insulting people whose comments you disagree with?Gardenwalker said:
Sorry.
Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.
Remarkable.
I think everyone should adopt my demeanour of unfailing good manners and infinite politesse.1 -
I think the second letter says "we'll be vetoing everything, including the budget, until we're out. Your move", rather than "jk lol".Gallowgate said:
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1176842642338041859?s=21eristdoof said:
Reading all 3 tweets, this is like PM Johnson going to Brussels to ask for an extension but having his fingers crossed behind his back, "so it doesn't count".TGOHF2 said:0 -
0
-
Will probably also say that we will not be appointing a commissionerDrutt said:
I think the second letter says "we'll be vetoing everything, including the budget, until we're out. Your move", rather than "jk lol".Gallowgate said:
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1176842642338041859?s=21eristdoof said:
Reading all 3 tweets, this is like PM Johnson going to Brussels to ask for an extension but having his fingers crossed behind his back, "so it doesn't count".TGOHF2 said:0 -
I think this sums it up well, from a libertarian immigrant to the U.K.:ozymandias said:
You cannot disagree that completely unrestrained immigration, with benefits and voting rights to all is a very, very dangerous policy to have. Which is why no country does it.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’m still waiting to have the whip hand over you lot.ozymandias said:
Absolutely. In such a scenario Mr Powell's famous quotation may literally happen.Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.
Immigration itself is fine. And necessary. But it must be managed.
https://twitter.com/KateAndrs/status/11760793149846241280 -
I think the signs are that most have indeed tended in that direction...Byronic said:
To be fair, the great Mike Smithson himself called me a "boring fart" and a "saddo" who should "get a life", just this morning. So the tenor is set by the management?TheScreamingEagles said:
He’s also manages to the miss all the abusive posts his fellow Leaver Richard Tyndall throws about.Roger said:
I remind you your honour you recently suggested "I piss off" in relation to a post I made about Boris Johnson. Perhaps you have anger management ptroblems?Wulfrun_Phil said:
I am asking myself why the fuck should I continue posting here when the likes of you inhabit this site. There are people of opposing views that you can have a reasoned debate with. Then there is the likes of you and your gratuitous insults. Christ knows this site is not the place it once was.Nigel_Foremain said:
To state you have to be very dim indeed to believe no-deal is a legitimate course of action is a very polite English understatement. Thick as pigshit would still be understating it.Gardenwalker said:
The truth hurts sometimes.Wulfrun_Phil said:
Might you consider engaging in debate here without insulting people whose comments you disagree with?Gardenwalker said:
Sorry.
Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.
Remarkable.
I think everyone should adopt my demeanour of unfailing good manners and infinite politesse.1 -
Considering we have an extreme, right-wing, (would-be) populist prime minister who has just been found to have suspended parliament unlawfully, that kind of scare scenario lacks something of the resonance it might otherwise have enjoyed.rottenborough said:
You think 1m people a year moving to UK wont deliver a Far Right or extreme populist government?Chris said:
You've forgotten to take your medication again, haven't you?Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.0 -
Aren’t you always saying that Twitter is not representative? Or is that only when you don’t agree?TGOHF2 said:More on Farage foul up
https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/1176844933719822337?s=211 -
It should be blatantly obvious that the above is correct. Labour are run by lunatics and fanatics. Unfortunately so are the Tories.ozymandias said:
You cannot disagree that completely unrestrained immigration, with benefits and voting rights to all is a very, very dangerous policy to have. Which is why no country does it.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’m still waiting to have the whip hand over you lot.ozymandias said:
Absolutely. In such a scenario Mr Powell's famous quotation may literally happen.Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.
Immigration itself is fine. And necessary. But it must be managed.
Well done those who have decided to leave these once respectable but now terrible organisations over the last couple of years. It will have been difficult but you have made the right choice.0 -
It's the single most insane and dangerous policy ever proposed by a major UK party, at least that I can remember. It makes No Deal Brexit look trivial. It would either lead to civil strife, or Fascism, or both.Sandpit said:
I think this sums it up well, from a libertarian immigrant to the U.K.:ozymandias said:
You cannot disagree that completely unrestrained immigration, with benefits and voting rights to all is a very, very dangerous policy to have. Which is why no country does it.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’m still waiting to have the whip hand over you lot.ozymandias said:
Absolutely. In such a scenario Mr Powell's famous quotation may literally happen.Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.
Immigration itself is fine. And necessary. But it must be managed.
https://twitter.com/KateAndrs/status/11760793149846241280 -
Time to go off in a huff and found a new party?TGOHF2 said:More on Farage foul up
https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/1176844933719822337?s=210 -
I think that the Supreme Court decision has politicised the SC but its not really about Brexit. The problem, so brilliantly discussed by Lord Sumption in his Reith lectures this year, is that the modern judiciary can never see an issue which they think is not a legal issue. The result is that matters that are not legal issues at all get reclassified and a judicial determination is then undertaken.
This does not give politics or indeed civil society its proper role. Sumption gave the example of prisoners votes. The first decision of the ECtHR said that the UK had clearly not considered the implications of taking away their right to vote and should reconsider. Parliament did and pretty much unanimously upheld the existing law. In the next case the ECtHR stated that in doing so Parliament had failed to apply the law and in particular Convention rights and that their decision was therefore wrong in law.
We see the same here. As the High Court and Lord Doherty held there is long recognised authority that certain matters fall outwith the reach of our Courts. These included matters of "high policy" and, err, prorogation. These dicta were ignored by the Supreme Court who impose the new test in Article, sorry, paragraph 50:
"the relevant limit upon the power to prorogue can be expressed in this way: that a decision to prorogue Parliament (or to advise the monarch to prorogue Parliament) will be unlawful if the prorogation has the effect of frustrating or preventing, without reasonable justification, the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions as a legislature and as the body responsible for the supervision of the executive."
So:
* who determines whether Parliament has been "frustrated"? They passed an Act in a day here which could have cancelled the prorogation but didn't.
*What is "reasonable justification"? What the hell does that even mean, let alone who decides it?
* What constitutional functions? The ability to legislate, ask questions, what?
* Ditto "supervision".
It really is pants but it is pants because the courts have no legal criteria to go on. Previous judges therefore backed away but the new Judiciary just make up some criteria by which they can judge how politicians have behaved. Its just wrong but if we are to have this sort of nonsense the idea that Justices can be seen as impartial is for the birds.3 -
People with Brexit party logos are representative of the Brexit party just as anyone with #FBPE in their name is of remaining in the European Union.Gallowgate said:
Aren’t you always saying that Twitter is not representative? Or is that only when you don’t agree?TGOHF2 said:More on Farage foul up
https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/1176844933719822337?s=210 -
For once, your post is accurate and not hyperbolic! Must try harder.Byronic said:
It's the single most insane and dangerous policy ever proposed by a major UK party, at least that I can remember. It makes No Deal Brexit look trivial. It would either leads to civil strife, or Fascism, or both.Sandpit said:
I think this sums it up well, from a libertarian immigrant to the U.K.:ozymandias said:
You cannot disagree that completely unrestrained immigration, with benefits and voting rights to all is a very, very dangerous policy to have. Which is why no country does it.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’m still waiting to have the whip hand over you lot.ozymandias said:
Absolutely. In such a scenario Mr Powell's famous quotation may literally happen.Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.
Immigration itself is fine. And necessary. But it must be managed.
https://twitter.com/KateAndrs/status/11760793149846241280 -
“We also won’t be paying our membership fee “dyedwoolie said:
Will probably also say that we will not be appointing a commissionerDrutt said:
I think the second letter says "we'll be vetoing everything, including the budget, until we're out. Your move", rather than "jk lol".Gallowgate said:
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1176842642338041859?s=21eristdoof said:
Reading all 3 tweets, this is like PM Johnson going to Brussels to ask for an extension but having his fingers crossed behind his back, "so it doesn't count".TGOHF2 said:0 -
So only when you don’t agree. Gotcha.Pulpstar said:
People with Brexit party logos are representative of the Brexit party just as anyone with #FBPE in their name is of remaining in the European Union.Gallowgate said:
Aren’t you always saying that Twitter is not representative? Or is that only when you don’t agree?TGOHF2 said:More on Farage foul up
https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/1176844933719822337?s=210 -
Sandpit said:ozymandias said:TheScreamingEagles said:ozymandias said:Byronic said:ozymandias said:
Hard to see this as anything other than the shortest political suicide note in history.Byronic said:
That is extraordinary. An Open Borders policy with the EU, in return for... nothing.TGOHF2 said:
Beggars belief that a conference tearing itself to shreds over Remain can approve a motion that takes the most politically controversial bit of Remain and gold-plates it.0 -
Not sure lawyers should quit whenever they lose.Scott_P said:0 -
Looks like things are getting heated in Parliament AND on here.
Cans someone give Barry Sheerman a Beta-Blocker.
0 -
Well personally I prefer opinion poll aggregates.Gallowgate said:
So only when you don’t agree. Gotcha.Pulpstar said:
People with Brexit party logos are representative of the Brexit party just as anyone with #FBPE in their name is of remaining in the European Union.Gallowgate said:
Aren’t you always saying that Twitter is not representative? Or is that only when you don’t agree?TGOHF2 said:More on Farage foul up
https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/1176844933719822337?s=210 -
I don't think PM Swinson would do that...Drutt said:
I think the second letter says "we'll be vetoing everything, including the budget, until we're out. Your move", rather than "jk lol".Gallowgate said:
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1176842642338041859?s=21eristdoof said:
Reading all 3 tweets, this is like PM Johnson going to Brussels to ask for an extension but having his fingers crossed behind his back, "so it doesn't count".TGOHF2 said:
And BoZo would be burnt toast!0 -
All you are really saying there is that a given case will require the courts to make a judgement as to whether a line has been crossed. That's always true in highly-contested legal cases, isn't it? That's why we have courts.DavidL said:...
It really is pants but it is pants because the courts have no legal criteria to go on. Previous judges therefore backed away but the new Judiciary just make up some criteria by which they can judge how politicians have behaved. Its just wrong but if we are to have this sort of nonsense the idea that Justices can be seen as impartial is for the birds.0 -
I’m more a sub-sample kind of guy.Pulpstar said:
Well personally I prefer opinion poll aggregates.Gallowgate said:
So only when you don’t agree. Gotcha.Pulpstar said:
People with Brexit party logos are representative of the Brexit party just as anyone with #FBPE in their name is of remaining in the European Union.Gallowgate said:
Aren’t you always saying that Twitter is not representative? Or is that only when you don’t agree?TGOHF2 said:More on Farage foul up
https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/1176844933719822337?s=210 -
To Kerr is human...TheScreamingEagles said:
Don’t be harsh. He’s given me the best laugh in ages when he got his Lord Kerrs mixed up.Chris said:
God knows what you're going to be like after No Deal, if it happens. You could be unmedicated for weeks!Byronic said:
Perfectly sane and sober. Anyone who isn't horrified by the implications of Labour's proposals - should they ever reach power - isn't sentient.Chris said:
You've forgotten to take your medication again, haven't you?Byronic said:
Indeed. It's an open invitation to everyone in the EU, and most people outside it, to come straight to the UK, where we will give you all rights and state benefits, immediately, and you get a vote in our GE as well! Hooray! And we've closed all detention centres so we've no intention of ever throwing anyone out.ozymandias said:
It's beyond insane. It would be the most liberal migration policy in the world, by miles, and it would mean the transformation (suicide?) of the country, in short order, as immigration increased to 1m a year, and up.
Why stay in Bulgaria or Gabon if you can just get to the UK and enjoy massive benefits. And also you'll be able to vote for more lovely Labour governments, to guarantee that these rights are yours forever, and the silly native Brits won't be able to do anything about it.
And there are bloody fools celebrating this on Twitter. They don't realise it would mean a Fascist government in five years, as those silly native Brits recoiled from this lunacy.1 -
Yes. Exactly what I was saying this morning, though I did it in a less aggressive way.DavidL said:I think that the Supreme Court decision has politicised the SC but its not really about Brexit. The problem, so brilliantly discussed by Lord Sumption in his Reith lectures this year, is that the modern judiciary can never see an issue which they think is not a legal issue. The result is that matters that are not legal issues at all get reclassified and a judicial determination is then undertaken.
This does not give politics or indeed civil society its proper role. Sumption gave the example of prisoners votes. The first decision of the ECtHR said that the UK had clearly not considered the implications of taking away their right to vote and should reconsider. Parliament did and pretty much unanimously upheld the existing law. In the next case the ECtHR stated that in doing so Parliament had failed to apply the law and in particular Convention rights and that their decision was therefore wrong in law.
We see the same here. As the High Court and Lord Doherty held there is long recognised authority that certain matters fall outwith the reach of our Courts. These included matters of "high policy" and, err, prorogation. These dicta were ignored by the Supreme Court who impose the new test in Article, sorry, paragraph 50:
"the relevant limit upon the power to prorogue can be expressed in this way: that a decision to prorogue Parliament (or to advise the monarch to prorogue Parliament) will be unlawful if the prorogation has the effect of frustrating or preventing, without reasonable justification, the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions as a legislature and as the body responsible for the supervision of the executive."
So:
* who determines whether Parliament has been "frustrated"? They passed an Act in a day here which could have cancelled the prorogation but didn't.
*What is "reasonable justification"? What the hell does that even mean, let alone who decides it?
* What constitutional functions? The ability to legislate, ask questions, what?
* Ditto "supervision".
It really is pants but it is pants because the courts have no legal criteria to go on. Previous judges therefore backed away but the new Judiciary just make up some criteria by which they can judge how politicians have behaved. Its just wrong but if we are to have this sort of nonsense the idea that Justices can be seen as impartial is for the birds.1 -
Farage only need some to come with him and in so doing sink Boris and brexit. I think he will oblige and enough will go with him.TGOHF2 said:More on Farage foul up
https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/1176844933719822337?s=210 -
I once called George Osborne a "creep" and got told off by OGH.Byronic said:
To be fair, the great Mike Smithson himself called me a "boring fart" and a "saddo" who should "get a life", just this morning. So the tenor is set by the management?TheScreamingEagles said:
He’s also manages to the miss all the abusive posts his fellow Leaver Richard Tyndall throws about.Roger said:
I remind you your honour you recently suggested "I piss off" in relation to a post I made about Boris Johnson. Perhaps you have anger management ptroblems?Wulfrun_Phil said:
I am asking myself why the fuck should I continue posting here when the likes of you inhabit this site. There are people of opposing views that you can have a reasoned debate with. Then there is the likes of you and your gratuitous insults. Christ knows this site is not the place it once was.Nigel_Foremain said:
To state you have to be very dim indeed to believe no-deal is a legitimate course of action is a very polite English understatement. Thick as pigshit would still be understating it.Gardenwalker said:
The truth hurts sometimes.Wulfrun_Phil said:
Might you consider engaging in debate here without insulting people whose comments you disagree with?Gardenwalker said:
Sorry.
Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.
Remarkable.
I think everyone should adopt my demeanour of unfailing good manners and infinite politesse.
I thought that was pretty mild compared to most of the insults that fly around on here. 1 -
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They need to be careful. No deal cannot be taken off the table indefinitely. It merely needs to be taken off the table PRIOR to an election.Scott_P said:0 -
No, he’ll found a new limited company, a bit like Sevco/The Rangers.Chris said:
Time to go off in a huff and found a new party?TGOHF2 said:More on Farage foul up
https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/1176844933719822337?s=210 -
I don't agree on the specific case, but a way that rather makes your point. When Sumption in his lectures attempted to give examples, he illustrated his own instinctive biases (e.g. IIRC he dismissed the idea that animals have rights - it's a legitimate view that he can hold, but definitely a political view, yet he simply assumed listeners would share it).DavidL said:I think that the Supreme Court decision has politicised the SC but its not really about Brexit. The problem, so brilliantly discussed by Lord Sumption in his Reith lectures this year, is that the modern judiciary can never see an issue which they think is not a legal issue. The result is that matters that are not legal issues at all get reclassified and a judicial determination is then undertaken.
In the absence of a constitution specifying all possible cases (which is very much not the British legal tradition), judges have to decide when a significant portion of society is being improperly disadvantages by unreasonable behaviour by the other branches of the system. I think we do need that but in the absence of guidelines at present the courts are going on instinct.0 -
A 3 day recess is probably reasonable.
https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/1176847143237275648?s=210 -
That was what always confused me, they are still taking a gamble with an election because if, and it's a big if at this point, BJ wins the Tories a majority on a no-deal platform there will be nothing that the LibDems and Labour can do about it.Gallowgate said:
They need to be careful. No deal cannot be taken off the table indefinitely. It merely needs to be taken off the table PRIOR to an election.Scott_P said:0 -
Free advice available if your club is facing a matching rights court case TSE.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, he’ll found a new limited company, a bit like Sevco/The Rangers.Chris said:
Time to go off in a huff and found a new party?TGOHF2 said:More on Farage foul up
https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/1176844933719822337?s=210 -
I think you need to explain where exactly you disagree with the unanimous judgment of the Supreme Court judges, rather than just dismissing it as "pants."DavidL said:
We see the same here. As the High Court and Lord Doherty held there is long recognised authority that certain matters fall outwith the reach of our Courts. These included matters of "high policy" and, err, prorogation. These dicta were ignored by the Supreme Court who impose the new test in Article, sorry, paragraph 50:
"the relevant limit upon the power to prorogue can be expressed in this way: that a decision to prorogue Parliament (or to advise the monarch to prorogue Parliament) will be unlawful if the prorogation has the effect of frustrating or preventing, without reasonable justification, the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions as a legislature and as the body responsible for the supervision of the executive."
So:
* who determines whether Parliament has been "frustrated"? They passed an Act in a day here which could have cancelled the prorogation but didn't.
*What is "reasonable justification"? What the hell does that even mean, let alone who decides it?
* What constitutional functions? The ability to legislate, ask questions, what?
* Ditto "supervision".
It really is pants but it is pants because the courts have no legal criteria to go on. Previous judges therefore backed away but the new Judiciary just make up some criteria by which they can judge how politicians have behaved. Its just wrong but if we are to have this sort of nonsense the idea that Justices can be seen as impartial is for the birds.
Do you think there should be any legal limitations on the scope of the royal prerogative? Assuming the answer is yes, what limitation would you substitute for the one the court suggested? Or are you arguing that the principle was correct, but the ability of parliament wasn't frustrated? Or that even though it was frustrated, there was reasonable justification for that?
That was why I thought the judgment was such a pleasure to read - it explained everything very clearly and concisely - no waffle, no ambiguity, no rhetoric. And therefore very difficult to argue with. Which I suppose is why you haven't argued with it, but just dismissed it.0 -
This discussion has been closed.