Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » To add to BoJo’s woes it’s Corbyn not the PM who’ll decide whe

1246789

Comments

  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Sudden major changes as a backlash to a specific event are rarely well thought through good ideas.
    The inference is highly irresponsible. What a twat, he should know better.
  • Sean_F said:

    CD13 said:

    MPs rushing back to gaze at their navel. "What an impressive navel you are."

    It's making Cox's job easy. "Put your money where your mouth is."

    "No, we just want to sit and let the weeks go by. Oh, look, there goes some tumbleweed."

    It is quite amusing watching some real venom from the opposition benches - Sheerman being just the latest - in recent weeks when their very parties refuse to trigger a general election.

    You’ve refused a 2nd referendum. What’s your point?
    'I' have done nothing.

    The people made their decision, in 2016. It is not their fault politicians cannot.
    The people made their decision, in 2017. It is not their fault politicians cannot.
    Which is why there needs to be a GE to break the deadlock!
    Which is why there needs to be a 2nd referendum against a specific Brexit settlement to break the deadlock!
    The result would only be implemented if we voted to Remain
    You could get around that by passing the relevant legislation to implement the withdrawal agreement with a clause stipulating that it would come into effect following confirmation in a referendum.

    Then Parliament would not have to take any further action following the confirmatory referendum to implement the result.

    I don't think this is a compromise that will fly, because I would expect Leavers like Farage to call for a boycott of such a referendum, and so the result would lack legitimacy.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Sudden major changes as a backlash to a specific event are rarely well thought through good ideas.
    It was mooted as part of a wider look at our constitutional arrangements proposed by Caroline Lucas with with Cox broadly agreed
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Remainer MPs going to try and introduce a law to rule out no deal indefinitely?

    Well at least until a GE I suppose.
  • Surprise, surprise Hickley Point costs are over running already. Only a matter of time before the already cut back list of new reactor sites gets even shorter. Wind has won.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/25/hinkley-point-nuclear-plant-to-run-29m-over-budget

    Wind and nuclear are not by and large in direct competition, so "wind has won" is surely overstating the case. If we don't use nuclear for baseload we will have to use something else, but it won't be wind. (I don't think the necessary energy storage solutions to use wind or solar as baseload are expected to be mature enough for the immediate future.)

    My memory of this is a bit rusty but if I recall correctly, one thing we are planning on doing is importing quite a lot more from the continent. But that's only a bit of it.

    I did read an interesting and quite detailed report on all this a few weeks ago but I can't seem to find it for you now, unfortunately.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    Mr kl4,

    Cox can't lose. If the venom increases, he just opens his arms. "If you feel so worked up, put down a motion of no confidence or let the people decide."
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainer MPs going to try and introduce a law to rule out no deal indefinitely?

    Well at least until a GE I suppose.

    Do you class Rory Stewart as a ‘remainer MP’?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainer MPs going to try and introduce a law to rule out no deal indefinitely?

    Well at least until a GE I suppose.

    Do you class Rory Stewart as a ‘remainer MP’?
    Yes.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited September 2019

    Cox's performance was a strange mixture of Churchill and Hitler.

    Perfect observation.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    CD13 said:

    Mr kl4,

    Cox can't lose. If the venom increases, he just opens his arms. "If you feel so worked up, put down a motion of no confidence or let the people decide."

    The people have already decided in 2017.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    Depends who extends - Boris or the Speaker.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,922

    Mortimer said:

    isam said:

    Argos, like Thomas Cook, what the point of it? Why would you shop in Argos (as a stand alone store), when I can get everything they sell from Amazon, but cheaper.

    If you want it that day?
    That isn't really a sustainable business model, especially as Amazon increasingly has same day delivery. These days, for odds and ends I need then and there, I get from the supermarket, everything else the t'interweb.

    I just don't see where a standalone Argos fit into that future.
    Back in my consulting days I did several detailed studies of Argos (though admittedly pre Sainsbury's purchase), and use it as a customer too.

    It is poised, IMO, to be the main competitor to Amazon because:

    1) Same day purchase. I can't see how this will never take off outside of the M25 for Amazon.
    2) Demographic advantage. Did you know, for example, that you can reserve something online and pay cash in store? It is still a trusted brand by the baby boomers, too.
    3) Pricing. Some of their products are tremendously good value - flat back bookcases, for example, are very cheap.


    Buying items from physical stores rather than Amazon increasingly feels like a charitable donation.
    I find Amazon service increasingly disappointing. Next day delivery is less attractive when its delivered at 4.55pm. It also takes like 15 minutes to select which of the thousands of types of sellotape one wants.

    If High St rents return to sensible levels, I predict a return of shops that provide a good service/selection of prodcts.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,776

    Sean_F said:

    CD13 said:

    MPs rushing back to gaze at their navel. "What an impressive navel you are."

    It's making Cox's job easy. "Put your money where your mouth is."

    "No, we just want to sit and let the weeks go by. Oh, look, there goes some tumbleweed."

    It is quite amusing watching some real venom from the opposition benches - Sheerman being just the latest - in recent weeks when their very parties refuse to trigger a general election.

    You’ve refused a 2nd referendum. What’s your point?
    'I' have done nothing.

    The people made their decision, in 2016. It is not their fault politicians cannot.
    The people made their decision, in 2017. It is not their fault politicians cannot.
    Which is why there needs to be a GE to break the deadlock!
    Which is why there needs to be a 2nd referendum against a specific Brexit settlement to break the deadlock!
    The result would only be implemented if we voted to Remain
    Not this bollocks again. Let me guess, the Queen is a lizard and 5G causes brain cancer as well?
    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extend
  • Mortimer said:

    isam said:

    Argos, like Thomas Cook, what the point of it? Why would you shop in Argos (as a stand alone store), when I can get everything they sell from Amazon, but cheaper.

    If you want it that day?
    That isn't really a sustainable business model, especially as Amazon increasingly has same day delivery. These days, for odds and ends I need then and there, I get from the supermarket, everything else the t'interweb.

    I just don't see where a standalone Argos fit into that future.
    Back in my consulting days I did several detailed studies of Argos (though admittedly pre Sainsbury's purchase), and use it as a customer too.

    It is poised, IMO, to be the main competitor to Amazon because:

    1) Same day purchase. I can't see how this will never take off outside of the M25 for Amazon.
    2) Demographic advantage. Did you know, for example, that you can reserve something online and pay cash in store? It is still a trusted brand by the baby boomers, too.
    3) Pricing. Some of their products are tremendously good value - flat back bookcases, for example, are very cheap.
    (2) and (3) are not solid enough to provide sustainable competitive advantage, and I have my doubts about (1).
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    edited September 2019
    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainer MPs going to try and introduce a law to rule out no deal indefinitely?

    Well at least until a GE I suppose.

    Do you class Rory Stewart as a ‘remainer MP’?
    Yes.
    Well that just shows what an imbecile you are.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    Sean_F said:

    CD13 said:

    MPs rushing back to gaze at their navel. "What an impressive navel you are."

    It's making Cox's job easy. "Put your money where your mouth is."

    "No, we just want to sit and let the weeks go by. Oh, look, there goes some tumbleweed."

    It is quite amusing watching some real venom from the opposition benches - Sheerman being just the latest - in recent weeks when their very parties refuse to trigger a general election.

    You’ve refused a 2nd referendum. What’s your point?
    'I' have done nothing.

    The people made their decision, in 2016. It is not their fault politicians cannot.
    The people made their decision, in 2017. It is not their fault politicians cannot.
    Which is why there needs to be a GE to break the deadlock!
    Which is why there needs to be a 2nd referendum against a specific Brexit settlement to break the deadlock!
    The result would only be implemented if we voted to Remain
    You could get around that by passing the relevant legislation to implement the withdrawal agreement with a clause stipulating that it would come into effect following confirmation in a referendum.

    Then Parliament would not have to take any further action following the confirmatory referendum to implement the result.

    I don't think this is a compromise that will fly, because I would expect Leavers like Farage to call for a boycott of such a referendum, and so the result would lack legitimacy.
    Which they would be entitled to do, given the government clearly stated the result would be implemented prior to the vote.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extend
    So when is he going to resign?
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    HYUFD said:
    And as I was saying, Leavers basically detest their country and wish to tear all the good parts down utterly.

    Cox is a cock.

    Another one whose reputation has been utterly salvaged by the demands of Brexit - which is acting as kind of gruelling machine for exposing your actual value set.
    As someone that supports mobs going to the private homes of your political opponents, I don't think you have strong grounds to argue on here.
  • TGOHF2 said:

    Decent inning from Cox - he was on form.

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1176818748549820416

  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    isam said:

    Argos, like Thomas Cook, what the point of it? Why would you shop in Argos (as a stand alone store), when I can get everything they sell from Amazon, but cheaper.

    If you want it that day?
    That isn't really a sustainable business model, especially as Amazon increasingly has same day delivery. These days, for odds and ends I need then and there, I get from the supermarket, everything else the t'interweb.

    I just don't see where a standalone Argos fit into that future.
    Back in my consulting days I did several detailed studies of Argos (though admittedly pre Sainsbury's purchase), and use it as a customer too.

    It is poised, IMO, to be the main competitor to Amazon because:

    1) Same day purchase. I can't see how this will never take off outside of the M25 for Amazon.
    2) Demographic advantage. Did you know, for example, that you can reserve something online and pay cash in store? It is still a trusted brand by the baby boomers, too.
    3) Pricing. Some of their products are tremendously good value - flat back bookcases, for example, are very cheap.


    Buying items from physical stores rather than Amazon increasingly feels like a charitable donation.
    I find Amazon service increasingly disappointing. Next day delivery is less attractive when its delivered at 4.55pm. It also takes like 15 minutes to select which of the thousands of types of sellotape one wants.

    If High St rents return to sensible levels, I predict a return of shops that provide a good service/selection of prodcts.
    Definitely something in this.

    Also, the fabled recommendations engine:
    Buy a toilet seat once and Amazon thinks you are a toilet seat collector...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    isam said:

    Argos, like Thomas Cook, what the point of it? Why would you shop in Argos (as a stand alone store), when I can get everything they sell from Amazon, but cheaper.

    If you want it that day?
    Exactly - last night I thought I had lost my mobile phone power pack and I'm going on holiday today, I was actually looking up what Argos might have to offer. As it happens, I found it this morning, I had absently-mindedly put it somewhere silly.
    I don't see that as a viable long term business just catering to the occasions when the absent minded lose something the day before they need it.
    It's like Maplins. Excellent if you needed advice on a complex set of adaptors, inputs and converters to attach a sound system to your TV but that must have been around 5% of their business. The rest you could buy online.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited September 2019
    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    As soon as we extend I think the numbers are there for the Gov't to carry on governing. Boles, Ian Austin, Ivan Lewis, John Mann (Abstain) and so forth all vote for the Gov't at that point.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    CD13 said:

    MPs rushing back to gaze at their navel. "What an impressive navel you are."

    It's making Cox's job easy. "Put your money where your mouth is."

    "No, we just want to sit and let the weeks go by. Oh, look, there goes some tumbleweed."

    It is quite amusing watching some real venom from the opposition benches - Sheerman being just the latest - in recent weeks when their very parties refuse to trigger a general election.

    You’ve refused a 2nd referendum. What’s your point?
    'I' have done nothing.

    The people made their decision, in 2016. It is not their fault politicians cannot.
    The people made their decision, in 2017. It is not their fault politicians cannot.
    Which is why there needs to be a GE to break the deadlock!
    Which is why there needs to be a 2nd referendum against a specific Brexit settlement to break the deadlock!
    The result would only be implemented if we voted to Remain
    Not this bollocks again. Let me guess, the Queen is a lizard and 5G causes brain cancer as well?
    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
    Was 9/11 an inside job also?
  • Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    As soon as we extend I think the numbers are there for the Gov't to carry on governing. Boles, Ian Austin, Ivan Lewis, John Mann (Abstain) and so forth all vote for the Gov't at that point.
    As soon as we extend, then the Opposition forces will VONC. Including all that motley lot you mention.

    No one wants lying liar Boris to last a moment longer than October 31.
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Sudden major changes as a backlash to a specific event are rarely well thought through good ideas.

    The practical effect of this will be wholesale changes in the judiciary every time a government chnages. The only way round that is a written constitution with a high amendment threshold. In other words, it is very unlikely to happen.

  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    On the main topic of the day...

    Argos.

    I find them incredibly useful. And I do a ton of shopping online.

    About 90% of the time, if I decide I need something desperately - i.e. right now - I can go to Argos online, find it there, reserve it, walk 5 mins to my local store, and pick it up. Amazon will never beat that.

    Argos offers instant and reliable gratification, which is a very modern thing. They should be fine, unless their management is wholly inept.
  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extend
    That would mean the only way voters could vote for Brexit with a deal would be to elect Corbyn.
  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extend
    So when is he going to resign?
    We need to know when to order the extra popcorn.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainer MPs going to try and introduce a law to rule out no deal indefinitely?

    Well at least until a GE I suppose.

    Do you class Rory Stewart as a ‘remainer MP’?
    Yes.
    Well that just shows what an imbecile you are.</ <blockquote class="UserQuote">

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    As soon as we extend I think the numbers are there for the Gov't to carry on governing. Boles, Ian Austin, Ivan Lewis, John Mann (Abstain) and so forth all vote for the Gov't at that point.
    As soon as we extend, then the Opposition forces will VONC. Including all that motley lot you mention.

    No one wants lying liar Boris to last a moment longer than October 31.
    Jezza would risk a no deal on Jan 31s after a GE ? Isn’t that a bit reckless ?
  • TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    Argos, like Thomas Cook, what the point of it? Why would you shop in Argos (as a stand alone store), when I can get everything they sell from Amazon, but cheaper.

    If you want it that day?
    Exactly - last night I thought I had lost my mobile phone power pack and I'm going on holiday today, I was actually looking up what Argos might have to offer. As it happens, I found it this morning, I had absently-mindedly put it somewhere silly.
    I don't see that as a viable long term business just catering to the occasions when the absent minded lose something the day before they need it.
    It's like Maplins. Excellent if you needed advice on a complex set of adaptors, inputs and converters to attach a sound system to your TV but that must have been around 5% of their business. The rest you could buy online.
    Our local Homebase is good for some peace and quiet on a busy day. And it's warm in the winter, too. I sometimes buy something small just to keep them going - a half-inch paint brush, that sort of thing,
  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainer MPs going to try and introduce a law to rule out no deal indefinitely?

    Well at least until a GE I suppose.

    Do you class Rory Stewart as a ‘remainer MP’?
    Yes.
    Rory Stewart repeatedly votes for WA to take UK out of EU. Yet he’s a “Remainer MP”.

    Rees-Mogg repeatedly votes against WA and thus keeps UK in the EU. Yet he’s supposedly a Leaver MP.

    Brexiteers are bonkers.
  • Cox is engaging in disgusting rabble rousing nonsense, which demeans his office as the government's senior legal officer. Tories are turning into the Trump party before our eyes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Sudden major changes as a backlash to a specific event are rarely well thought through good ideas.
    It was mooted as part of a wider look at our constitutional arrangements proposed by Caroline Lucas with with Cox broadly agreed
    But this specific mooted changed is in response to dislike of a single decision. He would not have mentioned it if the government had won, there can be little doubt of that when it is now taken as read the justices are all lefty remainiacs (despite prorogation not being about brexit if course).
  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainer MPs going to try and introduce a law to rule out no deal indefinitely?

    Well at least until a GE I suppose.

    Do you class Rory Stewart as a ‘remainer MP’?
    Yes.
    Well that just shows what an imbecile you are.</ <blockquote class="UserQuote">

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    As soon as we extend I think the numbers are there for the Gov't to carry on governing. Boles, Ian Austin, Ivan Lewis, John Mann (Abstain) and so forth all vote for the Gov't at that point.
    As soon as we extend, then the Opposition forces will VONC. Including all that motley lot you mention.

    No one wants lying liar Boris to last a moment longer than October 31.
    Jezza would risk a no deal on Jan 31s after a GE ? Isn’t that a bit reckless ?
    Sigh.

    If there is an extension, it will be a decent one.
    Enough to allow Boris or - far more likely - any successor government - to secure a deal which may or may not be put to a confirmatory referendum.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Sudden major changes as a backlash to a specific event are rarely well thought through good ideas.

    The practical effect of this will be wholesale changes in the judiciary every time a government chnages. The only way round that is a written constitution with a high amendment threshold. In other words, it is very unlikely to happen.

    Or they leave the court alone.
  • Byronic said:

    On the main topic of the day...

    Argos.

    I find them incredibly useful. And I do a ton of shopping online.

    About 90% of the time, if I decide I need something desperately - i.e. right now - I can go to Argos online, find it there, reserve it, walk 5 mins to my local store, and pick it up. Amazon will never beat that.

    Argos offers instant and reliable gratification, which is a very modern thing. They should be fine, unless their management is wholly inept.

    This should put to bed any lingering suspicions on here that you are Sean Thomas...not a man I'd have had down as an Argos shopper!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Cox just said that an election motion will be coming before the house shortly...
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    We desperately need a GE.

    But first, Boris needs to deliver on his promise that he can get a Deal.

    That is the promise he made to the Tory Party and to the country: “Do or Die” by October 31.

    Since he seems to have spent his entire time since 2016 hanging out with No Dealers, plotting against Dealers, and has now promoted a bunch of No Dealers to Cabinet while attempting to suspend democratic norms and alienating anyone with a sense of right and wrong — it is true, that “Die” looks more likely at this point.

    But he should be given a fair crack of the whip.

    I broadly agree, he needs a deal but if parliament rejects it then it should be no deal October 31st, no ifs no buts.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    We desperately need a GE.

    But first, Boris needs to deliver on his promise that he can get a Deal.

    That is the promise he made to the Tory Party and to the country: “Do or Die” by October 31.

    Since he seems to have spent his entire time since 2016 hanging out with No Dealers, plotting against Dealers, and has now promoted a bunch of No Dealers to Cabinet while attempting to suspend democratic norms and alienating anyone with a sense of right and wrong — it is true, that “Die” looks more likely at this point.

    But he should be given a fair crack of the whip.

    But parliament is doing the opposite of giving him a fair crack of the whip. They have deliberately limited his leverage by blocking one course of action, while separately negotiating independently with the EU to stop the other course. We have the opposition in parliament taking a direct opposite foreign policy to the government, while keeping the government in power, purely for political reasons.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited September 2019

    Cox is engaging in disgusting rabble rousing nonsense, which demeans his office as the government's senior legal officer. Tories are turning into the Trump party before our eyes.

    Let’s be clear what Cox is saying.

    “I don’t agree with the judiciary so I think that parliament should be able to have influence over them”.

    He should resign his QC-ship.
    He’s done.
  • Gabs2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    CD13 said:

    MPs rushing back to gaze at their navel. "What an impressive navel you are."

    It's making Cox's job easy. "Put your money where your mouth is."

    "No, we just want to sit and let the weeks go by. Oh, look, there goes some tumbleweed."

    It is quite amusing watching some real venom from the opposition benches - Sheerman being just the latest - in recent weeks when their very parties refuse to trigger a general election.

    You’ve refused a 2nd referendum. What’s your point?
    'I' have done nothing.

    The people made their decision, in 2016. It is not their fault politicians cannot.
    The people made their decision, in 2017. It is not their fault politicians cannot.
    Which is why there needs to be a GE to break the deadlock!
    Which is why there needs to be a 2nd referendum against a specific Brexit settlement to break the deadlock!
    The result would only be implemented if we voted to Remain
    You could get around that by passing the relevant legislation to implement the withdrawal agreement with a clause stipulating that it would come into effect following confirmation in a referendum.

    Then Parliament would not have to take any further action following the confirmatory referendum to implement the result.

    I don't think this is a compromise that will fly, because I would expect Leavers like Farage to call for a boycott of such a referendum, and so the result would lack legitimacy.
    Which they would be entitled to do, given the government clearly stated the result would be implemented prior to the vote.
    A second referendum has never been my preferred solution, but I don't think we can remain bound by silly pledges made before the referendum.

    There was no plan as to how to implement Leave and so the government was in no position to make that commitment.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    As soon as we extend I think the numbers are there for the Gov't to carry on governing. Boles, Ian Austin, Ivan Lewis, John Mann (Abstain) and so forth all vote for the Gov't at that point.
    But if so we get a different problem - still no election if the Tory vote plummets and enough others keep them in place, but still no numbers to pass a Brexit deal or no deal.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Cox’s tantrum about an election reeks of desperation.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Sudden major changes as a backlash to a specific event are rarely well thought through good ideas.
    It was mooted as part of a wider look at our constitutional arrangements proposed by Caroline Lucas with with Cox broadly agreed
    But this specific mooted changed is in response to dislike of a single decision. He would not have mentioned it if the government had won, there can be little doubt of that when it is now taken as read the justices are all lefty remainiacs (despite prorogation not being about brexit if course).
    No he just said it may be a necessary consideration of any constitutional review and would be a matter for parliament. It's not being proposed as a policy
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    TGOHF2 said:
    Coming to all Tory and Brexit Party leaflets in Labour Leave seats soon
  • Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this is right, is it?

    https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1176816002941837313

    I thought the only way that the government falls under the FTPA is a specific vote of no-confidence. So we could have the very odd situation of the Queen's Speech being voted down but the zombie government left undead.

    All of this nonsense follows from Boris's brain-dead October 31st pledge.

    If the Tories extended again past October 31st their support would collapse to the Brexit Party no matter how often you deny it

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1176087917149728768?s=20

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1176096370702180355?s=20
    I think there's a difference, in the eyes of Leave supporters, between the government choosing to extend, and being forced to by a House of Commons that will never tolerate Brexit.
    In the eyes of some but by no means all. So it's now far better tactically for the Conservatives to have nothing to do with it, which means letting Corbyn or a Corbyn-backed PM do the dirty deed, as well as voting down a Johnson tabled VONC. Johnson would get an electoral bonus from that, rather than an electoral penalty.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited September 2019
    Gabs2 said:

    We desperately need a GE.

    But first, Boris needs to deliver on his promise that he can get a Deal.

    That is the promise he made to the Tory Party and to the country: “Do or Die” by October 31.

    Since he seems to have spent his entire time since 2016 hanging out with No Dealers, plotting against Dealers, and has now promoted a bunch of No Dealers to Cabinet while attempting to suspend democratic norms and alienating anyone with a sense of right and wrong — it is true, that “Die” looks more likely at this point.

    But he should be given a fair crack of the whip.

    But parliament is doing the opposite of giving him a fair crack of the whip. They have deliberately limited his leverage by blocking one course of action, while separately negotiating independently with the EU to stop the other course. We have the opposition in parliament taking a direct opposite foreign policy to the government, while keeping the government in power, purely for political reasons.
    Sorry.

    Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.

    Hence why the overwhelming majority of voters don’t want it; and Parliament has attempted several times to avoid it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    CD13 said:

    Mr kl4,

    Cox can't lose. If the venom increases, he just opens his arms. "If you feel so worked up, put down a motion of no confidence or let the people decide."

    He loses my respect with some of his comments though, which would surely be devastating.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extend
    That would mean the only way voters could vote for Brexit with a deal would be to elect Corbyn.
    No they could vote for a Tory majority and Swinson would veto Corbyn as PM anyway
  • Brom said:

    We desperately need a GE.

    But first, Boris needs to deliver on his promise that he can get a Deal.

    That is the promise he made to the Tory Party and to the country: “Do or Die” by October 31.

    Since he seems to have spent his entire time since 2016 hanging out with No Dealers, plotting against Dealers, and has now promoted a bunch of No Dealers to Cabinet while attempting to suspend democratic norms and alienating anyone with a sense of right and wrong — it is true, that “Die” looks more likely at this point.

    But he should be given a fair crack of the whip.

    I broadly agree, he needs a deal but if parliament rejects it then it should be no deal October 31st, no ifs no buts.
    You are either as mad as a box of frogs or you are a hedge fund manager.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainer MPs going to try and introduce a law to rule out no deal indefinitely?

    Well at least until a GE I suppose.

    I read that quickly and thought that you had written
    "Remainer MPs going to try and introduce a law to rule out infidelity?"

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    To be honest, my brain has never been able to process the fact that Johnson is PM. We've had PMs that I've disagreed with or disliked before but I've never had any trouble thinking of them as PM as they've looked and sounded the part. With Johnson though... well you might as well tell me that Mr Blobby or Zippy from Rainbow are PM as they'd feel no less ridiculous to my mind. I'm not saying that I challenge Johnson's legitimacy as PM but just that my brain literally struggles to process the idea that it's happened.

    I share this difficulty entirely. But Mr Johnson may be a marmite figure after all. I was with someone yesterday who normally never talks about politics except on the odd occasion he's criticising a politician, and to my surprise he expressed complete satisfaction with Boris.

    Good afternoon, everyone.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extend
    So when is he going to resign?
    If the EU have not agreed the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop on October 17th by the 19th I suspect
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Gabs2 said:

    We desperately need a GE.

    But first, Boris needs to deliver on his promise that he can get a Deal.

    That is the promise he made to the Tory Party and to the country: “Do or Die” by October 31.

    Since he seems to have spent his entire time since 2016 hanging out with No Dealers, plotting against Dealers, and has now promoted a bunch of No Dealers to Cabinet while attempting to suspend democratic norms and alienating anyone with a sense of right and wrong — it is true, that “Die” looks more likely at this point.

    But he should be given a fair crack of the whip.

    But parliament is doing the opposite of giving him a fair crack of the whip. They have deliberately limited his leverage by blocking one course of action, while separately negotiating independently with the EU to stop the other course. We have the opposition in parliament taking a direct opposite foreign policy to the government, while keeping the government in power, purely for political reasons.
    Sorry.

    Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.

    Hence why the overwhelming majority of voters don’t want it; and Parliament has attempted several times to avoid it.
    Its legitimate, I just think it's an awful course.
  • Cox is engaging in disgusting rabble rousing nonsense, which demeans his office as the government's senior legal officer. Tories are turning into the Trump party before our eyes.

    Let’s be clear what Cox is saying.

    “I don’t agree with the judiciary so I think that parliament should be able to have influence over them”.

    He should resign his QC-ship.
    He’s done.
    +1. The man is a disgrace. He should have resigned yesterday. Better people have resigned for a great deal less incompetence. Now he seeks to make matters worse.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extend
    So when is he going to resign?
    If the EU have not agreed the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop on October 17th by the 19th I suspect
    Why doesn’t he resign now to save time?
  • Brom said:

    We desperately need a GE.

    But first, Boris needs to deliver on his promise that he can get a Deal.

    That is the promise he made to the Tory Party and to the country: “Do or Die” by October 31.

    Since he seems to have spent his entire time since 2016 hanging out with No Dealers, plotting against Dealers, and has now promoted a bunch of No Dealers to Cabinet while attempting to suspend democratic norms and alienating anyone with a sense of right and wrong — it is true, that “Die” looks more likely at this point.

    But he should be given a fair crack of the whip.

    I broadly agree, he needs a deal but if parliament rejects it then it should be no deal October 31st, no ifs no buts.
    Why?

    October 31 and No Deal are utter garbage, spewed up by the banter heuristic that seems to run our politics and media.

    Imagine Bismarck losing his shit over German unification thus: “If the Hessians don’t agree to unify by this totally made up date, I’m going to invite Russian troops into Berlin!”
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Sudden major changes as a backlash to a specific event are rarely well thought through good ideas.
    It was mooted as part of a wider look at our constitutional arrangements proposed by Caroline Lucas with with Cox broadly agreed
    But this specific mooted changed is in response to dislike of a single decision. He would not have mentioned it if the government had won, there can be little doubt of that when it is now taken as read the justices are all lefty remainiacs (despite prorogation not being about brexit if course).
    No he just said it may be a necessary consideration of any constitutional review and would be a matter for parliament. It's not being proposed as a policy
    It's a dog whistle. Hyufd and others are chomping at the bit to do it, and Cox and colleagues through 'sources' have been stoking that fervour and then pretending they respect the judges by mealy mouthed words afterwards
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Cox’s tantrum about an election reeks of desperation.

    They are desperate . If we dont leave in November we probably never will. If only more has listened to cox months ago he wouldnt be desperate now.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Sudden major changes as a backlash to a specific event are rarely well thought through good ideas.
    It was mooted as part of a wider look at our constitutional arrangements proposed by Caroline Lucas with with Cox broadly agreed
    But this specific mooted changed is in response to dislike of a single decision. He would not have mentioned it if the government had won, there can be little doubt of that when it is now taken as read the justices are all lefty remainiacs (despite prorogation not being about brexit if course).
    No he just said it may be a necessary consideration of any constitutional review and would be a matter for parliament. It's not being proposed as a policy
    It's a dog whistle. Hyufd and others are chomping at the bit to do it, and Cox and colleagues through 'sources' have been stoking that fervour and then pretending they respect the judges by mealy mouthed words afterwards
    That's not how I saw it being presented but each must form their own view
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Sudden major changes as a backlash to a specific event are rarely well thought through good ideas.
    You mean like a coalition agreement covering 5 years of government being written and signed off within 6 days.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    PM Ma Beckett to deliver the extension letter on the 19th ?


  • Sorry.

    Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.

    Might you consider engaging in debate here without insulting people whose comments you disagree with?
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    Cox just said that an election motion will be coming before the house shortly...

    The Telegraph posted on this this morning .
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    Gabs2 said:

    We desperately need a GE.

    But first, Boris needs to deliver on his promise that he can get a Deal.

    That is the promise he made to the Tory Party and to the country: “Do or Die” by October 31.

    Since he seems to have spent his entire time since 2016 hanging out with No Dealers, plotting against Dealers, and has now promoted a bunch of No Dealers to Cabinet while attempting to suspend democratic norms and alienating anyone with a sense of right and wrong — it is true, that “Die” looks more likely at this point.

    But he should be given a fair crack of the whip.

    But parliament is doing the opposite of giving him a fair crack of the whip. They have deliberately limited his leverage by blocking one course of action, while separately negotiating independently with the EU to stop the other course. We have the opposition in parliament taking a direct opposite foreign policy to the government, while keeping the government in power, purely for political reasons.
    Sorry.

    Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.

    Hence why the overwhelming majority of voters don’t want it; and Parliament has attempted several times to avoid it.
    No Deal would be a very poor policy outcome, but it is far more legitimate than Revoke, given it is covered by the referendum decision. And far more legitimate than blocking the enaction of the decision to rerun the vote because you don't like it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited September 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    PM Ma Beckett to deliver the extension letter on the 19th ?

    Cometh the hour, toweth the caravan.

    Edit: PS I was the FIRST to suggest Margaret Beckett as a potential PM. Not Meeks. He just stole my idea from the comments and put it in a header, like the elitist Remoaner that he is.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,257

    Mortimer said:

    isam said:

    Argos, like Thomas Cook, what the point of it? Why would you shop in Argos (as a stand alone store), when I can get everything they sell from Amazon, but cheaper.

    If you want it that day?
    That isn't really a sustainable business model, especially as Amazon increasingly has same day delivery. These days, for odds and ends I need then and there, I get from the supermarket, everything else the t'interweb.

    I just don't see where a standalone Argos fit into that future.
    Back in my consulting days I did several detailed studies of Argos (though admittedly pre Sainsbury's purchase), and use it as a customer too.

    It is poised, IMO, to be the main competitor to Amazon because:

    1) Same day purchase. I can't see how this will never take off outside of the M25 for Amazon.
    2) Demographic advantage. Did you know, for example, that you can reserve something online and pay cash in store? It is still a trusted brand by the baby boomers, too.
    3) Pricing. Some of their products are tremendously good value - flat back bookcases, for example, are very cheap.


    Buying items from physical stores rather than Amazon increasingly feels like a charitable donation.
    We buy little in physical stores, except food, but also little from amazon - there's often somewhere else cheaper or same price. Tend to first look on amazon to choose or shortlist as they have largest range, then seek out best deal - and there's always the possibility the smaller company pays more UK tax on the sale and treats its workers better!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,922
    AnneJGP said:

    To be honest, my brain has never been able to process the fact that Johnson is PM. We've had PMs that I've disagreed with or disliked before but I've never had any trouble thinking of them as PM as they've looked and sounded the part. With Johnson though... well you might as well tell me that Mr Blobby or Zippy from Rainbow are PM as they'd feel no less ridiculous to my mind. I'm not saying that I challenge Johnson's legitimacy as PM but just that my brain literally struggles to process the idea that it's happened.

    I share this difficulty entirely. But Mr Johnson may be a marmite figure after all. I was with someone yesterday who normally never talks about politics except on the odd occasion he's criticising a politician, and to my surprise he expressed complete satisfaction with Boris.

    Good afternoon, everyone.
    Anyone who has ever done canvassing will tell you that it is rare to find genuine support for any one individual politician.

    My first election was '05, so I'm too late to have witnessed it for Blair, but I'm told it was palpable. I didn't see it for anyone until '17, when Mrs May (or more regularly 'Theresa') was genuinely popular here in Dorset.

    It is nothing compared to the name recognition and genuine warmth felt for Boris, though. I've been getting it on the doorstep for the last 2 months.

  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extend
    Let's face it, the only thing about your predictions on your hero that have been consistent is their inconsistency. Oh, yes also their ludicrousness also. Our very own version of Nostradamus (aka HYUFD) has moved from absolutely certain predictions of Bozo leading the Tories to certain victory with a 100+ majority to him now leading them to opposition. You are a traitor to Boris!!


  • Sorry.

    Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.

    Might you consider engaging in debate here without insulting people whose comments you disagree with?
    The truth hurts sometimes.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited September 2019
    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    We desperately need a GE.

    But first, Boris needs to deliver on his promise that he can get a Deal.

    That is the promise he made to the Tory Party and to the country: “Do or Die” by October 31.

    Since he seems to have spent his entire time since 2016 hanging out with No Dealers, plotting against Dealers, and has now promoted a bunch of No Dealers to Cabinet while attempting to suspend democratic norms and alienating anyone with a sense of right and wrong — it is true, that “Die” looks more likely at this point.

    But he should be given a fair crack of the whip.

    But parliament is doing the opposite of giving him a fair crack of the whip. They have deliberately limited his leverage by blocking one course of action, while separately negotiating independently with the EU to stop the other course. We have the opposition in parliament taking a direct opposite foreign policy to the government, while keeping the government in power, purely for political reasons.
    Sorry.

    Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.

    Hence why the overwhelming majority of voters don’t want it; and Parliament has attempted several times to avoid it.
    No Deal would be a very poor policy outcome, but it is far more legitimate than Revoke, given it is covered by the referendum decision. And far more legitimate than blocking the enaction of the decision to rerun the vote because you don't like it.
    I don’t support “Revoke”, either.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,237

    Sadly (and I genuinely mean that) the SC has already politicised itself in the eyes of millions of voters.

    They are now fair game and I don't see how we won't end up with a nomination system for the SC in the future.

    Judging from this and a post you posted FPT, I don't think you understand how things work in the UK. For you and others, let me explain:

    The Legislature. Usually known as Parliament or Westminster. Meets in the Palace of Westminster. Consists of MPs (elected by popular vote) and Lords (it's complicated). Scruintinises and changes legislation proposed by the Government. Occasionally proposes legislation of its own, but is frequently shouted down when it does

    The Government. Usually known as Whitehall. Meets in various buildings and ministries. Consists of the Prime Minister, the Privy Council (of which the Cabinet is a Standing Committee), and the Civil Service. The PM and the Cabinet are mostly (but not always) MPs. The PM is appointed by the Monarch, the Cabinet is appointed by the PM. The Government issues orders, directives and regulations with the force of law, but must itself obey the law and get authorisation from Parliament to spend taxes (and I think to have a standing Army)

    The Judiciary. Decides if the law has been broken (can be subcontracted to a jury) and what the punishment is. Does not impose law.

    The Monarch. Appoints the PM. Is appointed by descent and is usually recognised by the Privy Council and Parliament (there is a separate ceremony for this, incidentally). Can be overthrown by Parliament.

    I think many Leavers either think the UK works like the US, or wishes it did. What is certain that frequently throughout the Brexit process they have been genuinely surprised and upset when it turns out that it doesn't and isn't. I appreciate your feelings but this is the way we do things here, and have done for many years.

    One good thing the Americans did (but no longer do?) is civics lessons, where these processes are taught in school. I would like to see that here.


  • Sorry.

    Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.

    Might you consider engaging in debate here without insulting people whose comments you disagree with?
    The truth hurts sometimes.
    To state you have to be very dim indeed to believe no-deal is a legitimate course of action is a very polite English understatement. Thick as pigshit would still be understating it.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861

    Cox is engaging in disgusting rabble rousing nonsense, which demeans his office as the government's senior legal officer. Tories are turning into the Trump party before our eyes.

    Let’s be clear what Cox is saying.

    “I don’t agree with the judiciary so I think that parliament should be able to have influence over them”.

    He should resign his QC-ship.
    He’s done.
    Parliament does have a way of influencing the the findings of the judiciary. It is called passing an act of parliament. Had the government passed an act closing parliament for the 5 weeks, it would have been lawful. Parliament would have never passed the act though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    edited September 2019
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,237


    Embarrassing.

    I think you should never post on Brexit or the law ever again.

    Go Remainers!

    Silencing dissenting voices on Brexit since 2016.
    Byronic voted Remain.
    Byronic does say that. Byronic also says many other things.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Gavin Barwell hoping for compromise on the BBC. Has he not seen the direction of travel?! These mps are digging in, getting further away not closer.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extend
    That would mean the only way voters could vote for Brexit with a deal would be to elect Corbyn.
    No they could vote for a Tory majority and Swinson would veto Corbyn as PM anyway
    A Tory majority would not deliver a deal because they do not accept the WA so the Tory policy is really No Deal. A Labour majority plus a second referendum would deliver Brexit with a deal.


  • Sorry.

    Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.

    Might you consider engaging in debate here without insulting people whose comments you disagree with?
    The truth hurts sometimes.
    To state you have to be very dim indeed to believe no-deal is a legitimate course of action is a very polite English understatement. Thick as pigshit would still be understating it.
    I am asking myself why the fuck should I continue posting here when the likes of you inhabit this site. There are people of opposing views that you can have a reasoned debate with. Then there is the likes of you and your gratuitous insults. Christ knows this site is not the place it once was.
  • Mortimer said:

    isam said:

    Argos, like Thomas Cook, what the point of it? Why would you shop in Argos (as a stand alone store), when I can get everything they sell from Amazon, but cheaper.

    If you want it that day?
    That isn't really a sustainable business model, especially as Amazon increasingly has same day delivery. These days, for odds and ends I need then and there, I get from the supermarket, everything else the t'interweb.

    I just don't see where a standalone Argos fit into that future.
    Back in my consulting days I did several detailed studies of Argos (though admittedly pre Sainsbury's purchase), and use it as a customer too.

    It is poised, IMO, to be the main competitor to Amazon because:

    1) Same day purchase. I can't see how this will never take off outside of the M25 for Amazon.
    2) Demographic advantage. Did you know, for example, that you can reserve something online and pay cash in store? It is still a trusted brand by the baby boomers, too.
    3) Pricing. Some of their products are tremendously good value - flat back bookcases, for example, are very cheap.


    It's remarkable how many people seem to think its M25 or nothing in this country. We are very compact nation and it will be possible probably within the decade to get same day delivery across the whole country.

    In the North West, Amazon has just developed a massive warehouse depot off the M62 in Warrington. I am not sure what region this covers but it wouldn't surprise me if from here they can service the whole "M62 corridor" between Liverpool and Manchester.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited September 2019



    Sorry.

    Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.

    Might you consider engaging in debate here without insulting people whose comments you disagree with?
    The truth hurts sometimes.
    To state you have to be very dim indeed to believe no-deal is a legitimate course of action is a very polite English understatement. Thick as pigshit would still be understating it.
    It is exceedingly difficult to retain respect for “Leavers” given the way they both sucked up - and continue to propagate - utter bollocks about the way this country works and how it earns its living.

    And that just the 2016 Leaverhood.

    Since then they have - with only a few exceptions - feverishly jumped behind every fresh outrage from the shit-for-brains, both in parliament and in the media, who run the country.

    Wake me up when a single fucking Leaver on here fesses up to say, “You know what? I was wrong, grossly wrong about my vote in 2016.”

    Remainers are not necessary the smartest, the most virtuous, the most attractive, or the wittiest people alive. But at least they did not - when it counted - make the most disastrous decision ever granted to the British public.

    How can anyone surveying the utter bin-fire of British politics over the last three years conclude anything else?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578



    Sorry.

    Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.

    Might you consider engaging in debate here without insulting people whose comments you disagree with?
    The truth hurts sometimes.
    To state you have to be very dim indeed to believe no-deal is a legitimate course of action is a very polite English understatement. Thick as pigshit would still be understating it.
    I am asking myself why the fuck should I continue posting here when the likes of you inhabit this site. There are people of opposing views that you can have a reasoned debate with. Then there is the likes of you and your gratuitous insults. Christ knows this site is not the place it once was.
    The worst of it is that dear Nigel Foremain thinks he is a model of restraint, and he constantly upbraids others for their abuse and hostility. Yet he is one of the most demented and vituperative commenters on the site.

    Brexit: sending everyone mad since June 2016. Thanks Dave,
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Mortimer said:

    I've been getting it on the doorstep for the last 2 months.

    Canvassing has never been so jolly .... or indeed more ..... :smiley:

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    viewcode said:


    The Judiciary. Decides if the law has been broken (can be subcontracted to a jury) and what the punishment is. Does not impose law.

    The sum of Lord Sumption's comment simply don't add through to this being the case.
    The Supreme Court has clearly decided it can impose law if it decides the executive is attempting to ride roughshod over the legislature.

  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,678
    kle4 said:

    Gavin Barwell hoping for compromise on the BBC. Has he not seen the direction of travel?! These mps are digging in, getting further away not closer.

    Pretty much like Pb.com then?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    viewcode said:

    Sadly (and I genuinely mean that) the SC has already politicised itself in the eyes of future.

    Judging from this and a post you posted FPT, I don't think you understand how things work in the UK. For you and others, let me explain:

    The Legislature. Usually known as Parliament or Westminster. Meets in the Palace of Westminster. Consists of MPs (elected by popular vote) and Lords (it's complicated). Scruintinises and changes legislation proposed by the Government. Occasionally proposes legislation of its own, but is frequently shouted down when it does

    The Government. Usually known as Whitehall. Meets in various buildings and ministries. Consists of the Prime Minister, the Privy Council (of which the Cabinet is a Standing Committee), and the Civil Service. The PM and the Cabinet are mostly (but not always) MPs. The PM is appointed by the Monarch, the Cabinet is appointed by the PM. The Government issues orders, directives and regulations with the force of law, but must itself obey the law and get authorisation from Parliament to spend taxes (and I think to have a standing Army)

    The Judiciary. Decides if the law has been broken (can be subcontracted to a jury) and what the punishment is. Does not impose law.

    The Monarch. Appoints the PM. Is appointed by descent and is usually recognised by the Privy Council and Parliament (there is a separate ceremony for this, incidentally). Can be overthrown by Parliament.

    I think many Leavers either think the UK works like the US, or wishes it did. What is certain that frequently throughout the Brexit process they have been genuinely surprised and upset when it turns out that it doesn't and isn't. I appreciate your feelings but this is the way we do things here, and have done for many years.

    One good thing the Americans did (but no longer do?) is civics lessons, where these processes are taught in school. I would like to see that here.
    +1 Granted I've no doubt hit some things wrong, but a lot of people get furious that...things are as they are. Mostly no dealers but not exclusively given the faux surprise of some that the queen doesn't exercise personal judgement.


  • Sorry.

    Only the very dim think No Deal is a legitimate “course of action”.

    Might you consider engaging in debate here without insulting people whose comments you disagree with?
    The truth hurts sometimes.
    To state you have to be very dim indeed to believe no-deal is a legitimate course of action is a very polite English understatement. Thick as pigshit would still be understating it.
    I am asking myself why the fuck should I continue posting here when the likes of you inhabit this site. There are people of opposing views that you can have a reasoned debate with. Then there is the likes of you and your gratuitous insults. Christ knows this site is not the place it once was.
    Best you retire from the fray, then, bubbles.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF2 said:
    Coming to all Tory and Brexit Party leaflets in Labour Leave seats soon
    Tories should call them up and ask if they need more volunteers for their leaflet deliveries!
  • isamisam Posts: 40,732

    Brom said:

    We desperately need a GE.

    But first, Boris needs to deliver on his promise that he can get a Deal.

    That is the promise he made to the Tory Party and to the country: “Do or Die” by October 31.

    Since he seems to have spent his entire time since 2016 hanging out with No Dealers, plotting against Dealers, and has now promoted a bunch of No Dealers to Cabinet while attempting to suspend democratic norms and alienating anyone with a sense of right and wrong — it is true, that “Die” looks more likely at this point.

    But he should be given a fair crack of the whip.

    I broadly agree, he needs a deal but if parliament rejects it then it should be no deal October 31st, no ifs no buts.
    Why?

    October 31 and No Deal are utter garbage, spewed up by the banter heuristic that seems to run our politics and media.

    Imagine Bismarck losing his shit over German unification thus: “If the Hessians don’t agree to unify by this totally made up date, I’m going to invite Russian troops into Berlin!”
    It suits the people who want to never leave for there to be no deadline to meet, so they never have to meet it. They’ve already managed to dodge the default ‘March 29th or leave without a deal’ date. Boris is at least trying to show them up for what they are
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    Gavin Barwell hoping for compromise on the BBC. Has he not seen the direction of travel?! These mps are digging in, getting further away not closer.

    Pretty much like Pb.com then?
    I resemble that remark.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Hyufd is right the tories will suffer big drops in support of we extend. Boris committing so hard and not being able to deliver is his own mess, and the reaction to that failure I disagree with, but hes right to fear it so.

    Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform rather than stay PM and agree to extend
    I am struggling to keep up here. Wasn't Boris picked because he is an election winner?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,922
    JackW said:

    Mortimer said:

    I've been getting it on the doorstep for the last 2 months.

    Canvassing has never been so jolly .... or indeed more ..... :smiley:

    :wink:
  • TGOHF2 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Remainer MPs going to try and introduce a law to rule out no deal indefinitely?

    Well at least until a GE I suppose.

    Do you class Rory Stewart as a ‘remainer MP’?
    Yes.
    Rory Stewart repeatedly votes for WA to take UK out of EU. Yet he’s a “Remainer MP”.

    Rees-Mogg repeatedly votes against WA and thus keeps UK in the EU. Yet he’s supposedly a Leaver MP.

    Brexiteers are bonkers.
    Stewart voted to extend Article 50; Mogg did not.

    If Mogg had won the extend Article 50 vote we would have left. Stewart did so we remained.
This discussion has been closed.