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I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.CaptainBuzzkill said:
If the government resigns the only acceptable replacement would be one whose only purpose would be to extend and then call a GE.kle4 said:
For the country the problem is theres no grouping with sufficient support to run the country and it looks like no election will be permitted to try to change that for several months. Again, Boris going doesnt change thst much.
He cannot stop the Commons doing whatever it wants anymore, he cannot take action other than resignation. But that's such a nuclear option.
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?0 -
Well, he can hardly criticise a party leader for breaking the law, ignoring democracy and intimidating the judiciary in support of a constitutional change using illegal methods.RochdalePioneers said:Jezbollah is going on the Today programme? On the Biased Broadcasting Company?
As there's nothing happening today he'll probably attack the lies and toxic actions of a Prime Minister who should have resigned a long time ago. Tony Blair. Only by attacking the evil Tory Blair can Labour persuade middle ground punters that True Socialism is nearly here, and thus win a glorious 704 seat (Jennie Formby is counting the votes) majority at the election
Although he might, with justification, say he's already got that taped and Boris should back off.0 -
Why would attacking our legal system do anything to reduce the BXP vote share - if anything Nigel is now the saner Brexiter option.kle4 said:
I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.CaptainBuzzkill said:
If the government resigns the only acceptable replacement would be one whose only purpose would be to extend and then call a GE.kle4 said:
For the country the problem is theres no grouping with sufficient support to run the country and it looks like no election will be permitted to try to change that for several months. Again, Boris going doesnt change thst much.
He cannot stop the Commons doing whatever it wants anymore, he cannot take action other than resignation. But that's such a nuclear option.
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?0 -
I thought you were a Labourite (although now a homeless one?)RochdalePioneers said:Jezbollah is going on the Today programme? On the Biased Broadcasting Company?
As there's nothing happening today he'll probably attack the lies and toxic actions of a Prime Minister who should have resigned a long time ago. Tony Blair. Only by attacking the evil Tory Blair can Labour persuade middle ground punters that True Socialism is nearly here, and thus win a glorious 704 seat (Jennie Formby is counting the votes) majority at the election0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/25/pink-eyed-terminators-and-limbless-chickens-boris-johnsons-un-speech-in-quotes
Wonder at what point the translators gave up?0 -
Letts is an odious little weasel.Scott_P said:3 -
Brexiteers ranting on Facebook and Twitter thus:
WE NEED BREXIT TO RESTORE POWER AND SOVEREIGNTY TO BRITISH PARLIAMENT AND BRITISH COURTS AND BRITISH LAWS
(we remain a member of the EU. Parliament then the courts rule on British laws)
THE BRITISH PARLIAMENT AND BRITISH COURTS HAVE TOO MUCH POWER OVER BRITISH LAES. WHO DO THESE PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE
Sadly this is why this country is doomed. There are too many utterly stupid people out there0 -
I put a token amount on Ed Milliband at 150/1 yesterday.ydoethur said:
Well, yes. That's why Margaret Beckett seems likelier than Ken Clarke.edmundintokyo said:
Is there any evidence that Corbyn will go for this? If you're an extremely shit party leader, it seems dangerous to let your party to put up a reasonably OK Prime Minister.AlastairMeeks said:Just to point out again, I tipped Margaret Beckett in a thread header a month ago.
If ever there was to be a Coalition of Chaos, there could only be one PM.1 -
Delicious. Michael Gove sqirming like a hooked eel on radio 4. What a piece of work!0
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That's harsh. Weasels are quite useful animals.Anabobazina said:
Letts is an odious little weasel.Scott_P said:0 -
The government resigning is the answer.kle4 said:
I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.
He cannot stop the Commons doing whatever it wants anymore, he cannot take action other than resignation. But that's such a nuclear option.
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
Why would Johnson request the extension if he has ANY other alternative? It's electoral suicide for him and the party if he does.
The government resigning would be spun as an act of protest, in support of the people, at the way remainers in parliament have thwarted the will of over 17m voters.
Beckett or Corbyn takes over as temp PM and make the extension request followed by an immediate GE.
Labour get annihilated.0 -
Labour need to be stopped. Aside from their idiocy on Brexit at conference they unveiled policies to destroy industry (32 hour week paid for by business) and steal private property (schools, pharmaceuticals). Yes there are plenty of decent policies in there. But the Stalinist agenda has taken over, the nutters are in full control and are too dangerous to be allowed near power. I think the exact same thing about the Johnson Judas Priest cult too btwBeibheirli_C said:
I thought you were a Labourite (although now a homeless one?)RochdalePioneers said:Jezbollah is going on the Today programme? On the Biased Broadcasting Company?
As there's nothing happening today he'll probably attack the lies and toxic actions of a Prime Minister who should have resigned a long time ago. Tony Blair. Only by attacking the evil Tory Blair can Labour persuade middle ground punters that True Socialism is nearly here, and thus win a glorious 704 seat (Jennie Formby is counting the votes) majority at the election0 -
This doesn't relate to my post.Foxy said:
The last GE showed the British electorate didn't want a government that could ram through partisan policies. The Tories tried to anyway, which is why we are watching a government collapsing.0 -
Indeed, BoZo only seemed to start negotiating when No Deal was taken off the table...kle4 said:
I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.CaptainBuzzkill said:
If the government resigns the only acceptable replacement would be one whose only purpose would be to extend and then call a GE.kle4 said:
For the country the problem is theres no grouping with sufficient support to run the country and it looks like no election will be permitted to try to change that for several months. Again, Boris going doesnt change thst much.0 -
He needs to try from the other end.kle4 said:
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
1) Whip for the WA subject to a confirmatory referendum, which will probably pass
2) Win the referendum0 -
Johnson will be OK with those headlines. Normally sympathetic papers chose not to highlight the biggest constitutional dishonesty in modern UK politics or the egregious incompetence of the prime minister. Compare with attitudes towards the Major government following Black Wednesday:
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Gove confirms we will have a Queen’s speech.
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I am so old that not only did I get the reference and know who Dick Emery was but I knew people who knew him. He once invited a reporter friend who had interviewed him to dinner and when she turned him down, he turned up at her newspaper office declaring he was in love with her (she had only met him the once). Another friend went to one of his many weddings where he spent most of the wedding reception smooching an ex-wife and ignoring his bride.AlastairMeeks said:My main recollection of Dick Emery was that he had a very complicated love life.
I wonder what made the Sun think of a priapic comedian in connection with Boris?0 -
That Sun frontpage LOLFF43 said:Johnson will be OK with those headlines. Normally sympathetic papers chose not to highlight the biggest constitutional dishonesty in modern UK politics or the egregious incompetence of the prime minister. Compare with attitudes towards the Major government following Black Wednesday:
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People have genuinely suggested Boris should break the law to see us Brexit, seemingly on the basis that delivering on the referendum is the only thing that matters, and the tory rating has been pretty high while Johnson hinted he might not follow the Benn Act.eek said:
Why would attacking our legal system do anything to reduce the BXP vote share - if anything Nigel is now the saner Brexiter option.kle4 said:
I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.CaptainBuzzkill said:
If the government resigns the only acceptable replacement would be one whose only purpose would be to extend and then call a GE.kle4 said:
For the country the problem is theres no grouping with sufficient support to run the country and it looks like no election will be permitted to try to change that for several months. Again, Boris going doesnt change thst much.
He cannot stop the Commons doing whatever it wants anymore, he cannot take action other than resignation. But that's such a nuclear option.
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
The assumption would therefore be that any action which shows Johnson is trying to brexit and is being stopped will shore up support. Attacking the judges is part of that.
Every action Johnson has taken - do or die, not providing the EU with any proposals for weeks etc - and MP support for him to begin with, can be explained by him thinking BXP voters will back him if he shouts Brexit loud enough.
I wonder if he regrets how hard he went after the WA. He was content to accept it in the end, however reluctant, and BXP were nowhere then.0 -
3) Brexiteer landslide at GE.edmundintokyo said:
He needs to try from the other end.kle4 said:
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
1) Whip for the WA subject to a confirmatory referendum, which will probably pass
2) Win the referendum0 -
You tell youngsters that today and they don't believe you.Foxy said:
It passed as comedy in the Seventies and early Eighties, but was blown away by alternative comedy.ydoethur said:
Who or what was the Dick Emery show?CarlottaVance said:
The Dick Emery show ended in 1982 when today’s 40 year olds would have been 3 - I’d add at least a decade (and a bit) to that!not_on_fire said:The Sun headline is weird. Just unfunny and probably completely over the heads of anyone under 40.
When there were only 3 channels, few video recorders, and no t'internet, people would watch any old rot. Though in those days news and current affairs were very well done. People had longer attention spans then, and channel hopping was less common without a remote control. You actually had to get off the sofa to change channel.0 -
But he has fully condemned the WA now and the party would crucify him for reviving it, and rightly fears remain would win such a referendum. So it's a non starter.edmundintokyo said:
He needs to try from the other end.kle4 said:
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
1) Whip for the WA subject to a confirmatory referendum, which will probably pass
2) Win the referendum1 -
It's not true, you could change the channel with a stickRecidivist said:
You tell youngsters that today and they don't believe you.Foxy said:
It passed as comedy in the Seventies and early Eighties, but was blown away by alternative comedy.ydoethur said:
Who or what was the Dick Emery show?CarlottaVance said:
The Dick Emery show ended in 1982 when today’s 40 year olds would have been 3 - I’d add at least a decade (and a bit) to that!not_on_fire said:The Sun headline is weird. Just unfunny and probably completely over the heads of anyone under 40.
When there were only 3 channels, few video recorders, and no t'internet, people would watch any old rot. Though in those days news and current affairs were very well done. People had longer attention spans then, and channel hopping was less common without a remote control. You actually had to get off the sofa to change channel.0 -
Why do you think such a government would only last the few days needed to send the letter? Someone like Ken Clarke might quite fancy seeing things through to 2022 and trying to get a referendum done in the meantime. He'd be the defacto leader of the British En Marche after all and no doubt enjoying himself immensely.CaptainBuzzkill said:
The government resigning is the answer.kle4 said:
I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.
He cannot stop the Commons doing whatever it wants anymore, he cannot take action other than resignation. But that's such a nuclear option.
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
Why would Johnson request the extension if he has ANY other alternative? It's electoral suicide for him and the party if he does.
The government resigning would be spun as an act of protest, in support of the people, at the way remainers in parliament have thwarted the will of over 17m voters.
Beckett or Corbyn takes over as temp PM and make the extension request followed by an immediate GE.
Labour get annihilated.
There's no evidence that if Corbyn became PM it would be as a mere caretaker, he'd want to show for a reasonable period he's capable of sane and statesmanlike behaviour and possibly even put a few things through to tip the electoral scales in his favour (votes for 16-years old perhaps).
Boris resigning is an incredibly risky move on his part, I don't think he'll do it.0 -
The prorogation being cancelled does complicate the plan of the opposition somewhat, harder now to just sit tight until the deadline arises for passing an extension. There's no chance of an election being called before an extension is requested, so what will happen for the next couple of weeks? Boris will keep trying to submit requests for an election that won't pass. He may try and force a vonc on himself, and in any case it will be difficult for Labour to continually avoid one.
A situation where there is desparate scrambling and horse trading to agree on a Gonu caretaker candidate seems likely. Corbyn will not get the votes but he won't want to vote down a potential Gonu candidate when push comes to shove, because that would lead to an election too soon, which would be in Boris' interests, not Corbyn's. For all the opposition parties, the safest way out of this now would be to have a Gonu figure pass legislation for May's deal vs Remain, before an election. Certainly having Brexit resolved would be great for Corbyn, and while it may take the wind out of the LD sails, they wouldn't be able to refuse an opportunity for a second referendum if one presented itself.0 -
Slashdot! Dear heavens... a blast from the past. I never liked it all that much because of some of the "theological" arguments on programming style or the GPL, etc. I preferred reading Pamela Jones's Groklaw at the time.JosiasJessop said:I used to read Slashdot regularly fifteen to twenty years ago. Now, when I pop in every so often, it seems a little dead. ISTR there was a takeover that changed it slightly?
And this tells me that I'm getting old - and so is t'Internet and t'web. We're seeing a second generation born of people who have lived whilst the web has existed in a popular, commercial sense. Their world growing up is massively different to the one I grew up in - and much of that is down to the web.
As for the internet, I can remember lying in the bath reading a computer mag of the time that had two interesting stories about new technologies. One about a new graphical interface for the internet and a tool call Mosaic to access it, and the other about the hottest new language of the day - Java.
I used to have to access the internet via WAIS, ftp and telnet via CIX. Then Demon;s dial-up set me free at a sizzling 33.6K
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There was a survey quoted on here where a significant no of our young people thought Hitler was a good guy.. Some people don't realise peas are grown, they think they are manufactured... they walk amongst us...Recidivist said:
You tell youngsters that today and they don't believe you.Foxy said:
It passed as comedy in the Seventies and early Eighties, but was blown away by alternative comedy.ydoethur said:
Who or what was the Dick Emery show?CarlottaVance said:
The Dick Emery show ended in 1982 when today’s 40 year olds would have been 3 - I’d add at least a decade (and a bit) to that!not_on_fire said:The Sun headline is weird. Just unfunny and probably completely over the heads of anyone under 40.
When there were only 3 channels, few video recorders, and no t'internet, people would watch any old rot. Though in those days news and current affairs were very well done. People had longer attention spans then, and channel hopping was less common without a remote control. You actually had to get off the sofa to change channel.0 -
John McDonnell has apparently stated that he will vacate no11 downing st for a homeless family to help solve the housing crisis. Didn’t even consider the more conventional wisdom that the Government could sell it off and build several new homes with the proceeds.RochdalePioneers said:
Labour need to be stopped. Aside from their idiocy on Brexit at conference they unveiled policies to destroy industry (32 hour week paid for by business) and steal private property (schools, pharmaceuticals). Yes there are plenty of decent policies in there. But the Stalinist agenda has taken over, the nutters are in full control and are too dangerous to be allowed near power. I think the exact same thing about the Johnson Judas Priest cult too btwBeibheirli_C said:
I thought you were a Labourite (although now a homeless one?)RochdalePioneers said:Jezbollah is going on the Today programme? On the Biased Broadcasting Company?
As there's nothing happening today he'll probably attack the lies and toxic actions of a Prime Minister who should have resigned a long time ago. Tony Blair. Only by attacking the evil Tory Blair can Labour persuade middle ground punters that True Socialism is nearly here, and thus win a glorious 704 seat (Jennie Formby is counting the votes) majority at the election0 -
The risks you outline are huge indeed. But Boris can do nothing at present and presumably parliament will fill the time defeating him in votes and demanding embarrassing info.moonshine said:
Why do you think such a government would only last the few days needed to send the letter? Someone like Ken Clarke might quite fancy seeing things through to 2022 and trying to get a referendum done in the meantime. He'd be the defacto leader of the British En Marche after all and no doubt enjoying himself immensely.CaptainBuzzkill said:
The government resigning is the answer.kle4 said:
I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.
He cannot stop the Commons doing whatever it wants anymore, he cannot take action other than resignation. But that's such a nuclear option.
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
Why would Johnson request the extension if he has ANY other alternative? It's electoral suicide for him and the party if he does.
The government resigning would be spun as an act of protest, in support of the people, at the way remainers in parliament have thwarted the will of over 17m voters.
Beckett or Corbyn takes over as temp PM and make the extension request followed by an immediate GE.
Labour get annihilated.
There's no evidence that if Corbyn became PM it would be as a mere caretaker, he'd want to show for a reasonable period he's capable of sane and statesmanlike behaviour and possibly even put a few things through to tip the electoral scales in his favour (votes for 16-years old perhaps).
Boris resigning is an incredibly risky move on his part, I don't think he'll do it.
So if he wont resign and cannot get anything done what then?0 -
Hang around for a bit pretending to negotiate and hoping something lucky happens?kle4 said:So if he wont resign and cannot get anything done what then?
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Parliament will remain sitting through Halloween. I suspect that there is quite a lot of constitutional work they could do:Paristonda said:The prorogation being cancelled does complicate the plan of the opposition somewhat, harder now to just sit tight until the deadline arises for passing an extension. There's no chance of an election being called before an extension is requested, so what will happen for the next couple of weeks? Boris will keep trying to submit requests for an election that won't pass. He may try and force a vonc on himself, and in any case it will be difficult for Labour to continually avoid one.
A situation where there is desparate scrambling and horse trading to agree on a Gonu caretaker candidate seems likely. Corbyn will not get the votes but he won't want to vote down a potential Gonu candidate when push comes to shove, because that would lead to an election too soon, which would be in Boris' interests, not Corbyn's. For all the opposition parties, the safest way out of this now would be to have a Gonu figure pass legislation for May's deal vs Remain, before an election. Certainly having Brexit resolved would be great for Corbyn, and while it may take the wind out of the LD sails, they wouldn't be able to refuse an opportunity for a second referendum if one presented itself.
1. Parliamentary Supremacy Act - cement into place the powers of the legislature over the executive (which can only act with the consent of the legislature)
2. Parliament (Sessions and Prorogation) Act - maximum session length of 1 year, maximum prorogation length 5 days)
I'd also love an act to bring in Single Transferrable Vote with Multi-member constituencies. Have to head off the coming storm when the Brexit Party get 7m votes and 2 seats0 -
Prime location but isn't it drafty and full of rats? I'll pass.alex. said:
John McDonnell has apparently stated that he will vacate no11 downing st for a homeless family to help solve the housing crisis. Didn’t even consider the more conventional wisdom that the Government could sell it off and build several new homes with the proceeds.RochdalePioneers said:
Labour need to be stopped. Aside from their idiocy on Brexit at conference they unveiled policies to destroy industry (32 hour week paid for by business) and steal private property (schools, pharmaceuticals). Yes there are plenty of decent policies in there. But the Stalinist agenda has taken over, the nutters are in full control and are too dangerous to be allowed near power. I think the exact same thing about the Johnson Judas Priest cult too btwBeibheirli_C said:
I thought you were a Labourite (although now a homeless one?)RochdalePioneers said:Jezbollah is going on the Today programme? On the Biased Broadcasting Company?
As there's nothing happening today he'll probably attack the lies and toxic actions of a Prime Minister who should have resigned a long time ago. Tony Blair. Only by attacking the evil Tory Blair can Labour persuade middle ground punters that True Socialism is nearly here, and thus win a glorious 704 seat (Jennie Formby is counting the votes) majority at the election
Still, what can one expect of a street named for a traitor.0 -
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Why would they limit a session to one year when they are objecting to a much longer session being curtailed?RochdalePioneers said:
Parliament will remain sitting through Halloween. I suspect that there is quite a lot of constitutional work they could do:Paristonda said:The prorogation being cancelled does complicate the plan of the opposition somewhat, harder now to just sit tight until the deadline arises for passing an extension. There's no chance of an election being called before an extension is requested, so what will happen for the next couple of weeks? Boris will keep trying to submit requests for an election that won't pass. He may try and force a vonc on himself, and in any case it will be difficult for Labour to continually avoid one.
A situation where there is desparate scrambling and horse trading to agree on a Gonu caretaker candidate seems likely. Corbyn will not get the votes but he won't want to vote down a potential Gonu candidate when push comes to shove, because that would lead to an election too soon, which would be in Boris' interests, not Corbyn's. For all the opposition parties, the safest way out of this now would be to have a Gonu figure pass legislation for May's deal vs Remain, before an election. Certainly having Brexit resolved would be great for Corbyn, and while it may take the wind out of the LD sails, they wouldn't be able to refuse an opportunity for a second referendum if one presented itself.
1. Parliamentary Supremacy Act - cement into place the powers of the legislature over the executive (which can only act with the consent of the legislature)
2. Parliament (Sessions and Prorogation) Act - maximum session length of 1 year, maximum prorogation length 5 days)
I'd also love an act to bring in Single Transferrable Vote with Multi-member constituencies. Have to head off the coming storm when the Brexit Party get 7m votes and 2 seats0 -
???? That poll is 5 months old!TGOHF2 said:0 -
There were text based internet "browsers", but AFAI remember Mosaic was a really big step forward in making the internet usable.Beibheirli_C said:
Slashdot! Dear heavens... a blast from the past. I never liked it all that much because of some of the "theological" arguments on programming style or the GPL, etc. I preferred reading Pamela Jones's Groklaw at the time.JosiasJessop said:I used to read Slashdot regularly fifteen to twenty years ago. Now, when I pop in every so often, it seems a little dead. ISTR there was a takeover that changed it slightly?
And this tells me that I'm getting old - and so is t'Internet and t'web. We're seeing a second generation born of people who have lived whilst the web has existed in a popular, commercial sense. Their world growing up is massively different to the one I grew up in - and much of that is down to the web.
As for the internet, I can remember lying in the bath reading a computer mag of the time that had two interesting stories about new technologies. One about a new graphical interface for the internet and a tool call Mosaic to access it, and the other about the hottest new language of the day - Java.
I used to have to access the internet via WAIS, ftp and telnet via CIX. Then Demon;s dial-up set me free at a sizzling 33.6K
I had no such problems with download speeds as my online access was at uni, it was a good time to be a postgraduate student.
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Or your big toe...edmundintokyo said:
It's not true, you could change the channel with a stickRecidivist said:
You tell youngsters that today and they don't believe you.Foxy said:
It passed as comedy in the Seventies and early Eighties, but was blown away by alternative comedy.ydoethur said:
Who or what was the Dick Emery show?CarlottaVance said:
The Dick Emery show ended in 1982 when today’s 40 year olds would have been 3 - I’d add at least a decade (and a bit) to that!not_on_fire said:The Sun headline is weird. Just unfunny and probably completely over the heads of anyone under 40.
When there were only 3 channels, few video recorders, and no t'internet, people would watch any old rot. Though in those days news and current affairs were very well done. People had longer attention spans then, and channel hopping was less common without a remote control. You actually had to get off the sofa to change channel. 0 -
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Dick Emery ..... titter ....
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1
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Or an obedient child.Beibheirli_C said:
Or your big toe...edmundintokyo said:
It's not true, you could change the channel with a stickRecidivist said:
You tell youngsters that today and they don't believe you.Foxy said:
It passed as comedy in the Seventies and early Eighties, but was blown away by alternative comedy.ydoethur said:
Who or what was the Dick Emery show?CarlottaVance said:
The Dick Emery show ended in 1982 when today’s 40 year olds would have been 3 - I’d add at least a decade (and a bit) to that!not_on_fire said:The Sun headline is weird. Just unfunny and probably completely over the heads of anyone under 40.
When there were only 3 channels, few video recorders, and no t'internet, people would watch any old rot. Though in those days news and current affairs were very well done. People had longer attention spans then, and channel hopping was less common without a remote control. You actually had to get off the sofa to change channel.0 -
Neither Johnson nor Corbyn want to go anywhere near signing that letter. To both leaders it’s kryptonite. Tories obviously destroyed by BXP, Labour destroyed by both Tories and BXP in subsequent election. The optics of doing it are awful and how it can be used as ammunition by their opponents is just too great a danger.Paristonda said:The prorogation being cancelled does complicate the plan of the opposition somewhat, harder now to just sit tight until the deadline arises for passing an extension. There's no chance of an election being called before an extension is requested, so what will happen for the next couple of weeks? Boris will keep trying to submit requests for an election that won't pass. He may try and force a vonc on himself, and in any case it will be difficult for Labour to continually avoid one.
A situation where there is desparate scrambling and horse trading to agree on a Gonu caretaker candidate seems likely. Corbyn will not get the votes but he won't want to vote down a potential Gonu candidate when push comes to shove, because that would lead to an election too soon, which would be in Boris' interests, not Corbyn's. For all the opposition parties, the safest way out of this now would be to have a Gonu figure pass legislation for May's deal vs Remain, before an election. Certainly having Brexit resolved would be great for Corbyn, and while it may take the wind out of the LD sails, they wouldn't be able to refuse an opportunity for a second referendum if one presented itself.
The only person(s) who can sign without fear are Swinson or AN other as temp caretaker.
Surprises me that no one has suggested Boris could recommend Swinson to HMQ.0 -
Oh no it isn't!not_on_fire said:
???? That poll is 5 months old!TGOHF2 said:0 -
Demon's service was incredible at the time.Beibheirli_C said:I used to have to access the internet via WAIS, ftp and telnet via CIX. Then Demon;s dial-up set me free at a sizzling 33.6K
Email via SMTP only...0 -
Like finding a unicorn in a field in Essex?edmundintokyo said:
Hang around for a bit pretending to negotiate and hoping something lucky happens?kle4 said:So if he wont resign and cannot get anything done what then?
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Hed be better advised to focus on matters close to home rather than joshing on twitter given the contempt his bosses hold the law in.Foxy said:Cox is having A Grand Day Out:
https://twitter.com/Geoffrey_Cox/status/1176629018382295041?s=190 -
Where would the on going support for such a government come from?moonshine said:
Why do you think such a government would only last the few days needed to send the letter? Someone like Ken Clarke might quite fancy seeing things through to 2022 and trying to get a referendum done in the meantime. He'd be the defacto leader of the British En Marche after all and no doubt enjoying himself immensely.
There's no evidence that if Corbyn became PM it would be as a mere caretaker, he'd want to show for a reasonable period he's capable of sane and statesmanlike behaviour and possibly even put a few things through to tip the electoral scales in his favour (votes for 16-years old perhaps).
Boris resigning is an incredibly risky move on his part, I don't think he'll do it.
It would be challenging enough to get the support for a temporary PM to request an extension.0 -
I did my first comedy commercial with Dick Emery for an insurance company. "Do you wan't a quick one on your grand piano? ....."No an insurance quote silly!" and four others in the same vein. He died a few weeks later and the ads which were supposed to run for a year were pulled. We went to a restaurant after the first days shoot and as we trooped in the head waiter said to me "I'm sorry sir you need to wear a tie". Dick Emery who was behind me boomed "Right we go elsewhere!" then turned round and led us all out leaving a head waiter begging us to come back.Foxy said:
He was Trans before it was fashionable?AlastairMeeks said:My main recollection of Dick Emery was that he had a very complicated love life.
0 -
Everyone should eat peas fresh from the pod at least once.SquareRoot said:
There was a survey quoted on here where a significant no of our young people thought Hitler was a good guy.. Some people don't realise peas are grown, they think they are manufactured... they walk amongst us...Recidivist said:
You tell youngsters that today and they don't believe you.Foxy said:
It passed as comedy in the Seventies and early Eighties, but was blown away by alternative comedy.ydoethur said:
Who or what was the Dick Emery show?CarlottaVance said:
The Dick Emery show ended in 1982 when today’s 40 year olds would have been 3 - I’d add at least a decade (and a bit) to that!not_on_fire said:The Sun headline is weird. Just unfunny and probably completely over the heads of anyone under 40.
When there were only 3 channels, few video recorders, and no t'internet, people would watch any old rot. Though in those days news and current affairs were very well done. People had longer attention spans then, and channel hopping was less common without a remote control. You actually had to get off the sofa to change channel.0 -
An extension AND referendum before an election is just a complete non starter. Just apply some critical thought to the prospect. It would require several months to deliver which would mean several months more with no effective Govt. The Govt officially in place would be in danger of being turfed out at any time meaning we might not even make it to the referendum (and imagine the chaos involved if a General Election and referendum almost coincided).
And even if somehow we did make it to the referendum unscathed, the GE immediately following it would quite likely see the Brexit party sweep the board (cf Scotland)with a pledge to exit on the back of their Parliamentary majority alone.0 -
Margaret Beckett publicly described herself as a "moron" (her words) for putting Corbyn on the shortlist.eek said:
It's because Beckett put Corbyn on the shortlist that she is the likeliest option (a moderate who Corbyn doesn't dislike).Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Beckett is one of the idiots who put Corbyn on the short list.
But it'd be nice of Conservative MPs to provide the nation with its first female Labour PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33625612
Where is the evidence that Corbyn will back Beckett? Its incredibly dangerous for him.
And it seems incredibly ... err, moronic .. for the so-called GONU to be run by a self-confessed "moron".0 -
Curious statistics in this Guardian article.
52% of Britons take 100% of international flights. 48% take no flights at all.
*innocent face*
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other0 -
Ken Clarke has talked in terms of a longer term government and renegotiating Brexit.moonshine said:
Why do you think such a government would only last the few days needed to send the letter? Someone like Ken Clarke might quite fancy seeing things through to 2022 and trying to get a referendum done in the meantime. He'd be the defacto leader of the British En Marche after all and no doubt enjoying himself immensely.CaptainBuzzkill said:
The government resigning is the answer.kle4 said:
I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.
He cannot stop the Commons doing whatever it wants anymore, he cannot take action other than resignation. But that's such a nuclear option.
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
Why would Johnson request the extension if he has ANY other alternative? It's electoral suicide for him and the party if he does.
The government resigning would be spun as an act of protest, in support of the people, at the way remainers in parliament have thwarted the will of over 17m voters.
Beckett or Corbyn takes over as temp PM and make the extension request followed by an immediate GE.
Labour get annihilated.
There's no evidence that if Corbyn became PM it would be as a mere caretaker, he'd want to show for a reasonable period he's capable of sane and statesmanlike behaviour and possibly even put a few things through to tip the electoral scales in his favour (votes for 16-years old perhaps).
Boris resigning is an incredibly risky move on his part, I don't think he'll do it.
Jeremy Corbyn has addressed your point by offering so-called purdah, which is the state governments enter into during an election campaign, when nothing significant can be done; once the election is called, that would be the case anyway. Given the numbers, a Corbyn government that did renege on this could be immediately VONC'd. Corbyn's prize, of course, would be six weeks of wearing a suit in Downing Street without the world coming to an end, which would probably help Labour in the forthcoming election campaign.
Since this sort of short term, circumscribed Labour minority government to extend Article 50 and call an election suits both Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson (who can then run an insurgent election campaign, championing the people against the Establishment) I expect that this, or something very like it, will happen.0 -
Essex is full of wonderseristdoof said:
Like finding a unicorn in a field in Essex?edmundintokyo said:
Hang around for a bit pretending to negotiate and hoping something lucky happens?kle4 said:So if he wont resign and cannot get anything done what then?
0 -
Oh yes - I had forgotten that. And only £10 a month (exVAT, other charges may apply, etc, etc)Scott_P said:
Demon's service was incredible at the time.Beibheirli_C said:I used to have to access the internet via WAIS, ftp and telnet via CIX. Then Demon;s dial-up set me free at a sizzling 33.6K
Email via SMTP only...
0 -
The Mail's editor has also changed in that time from Dacre to be less Brexity0
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Exactly. Once in power it is far more difficult to give up. Theresa May was deemed, correctly, a lame duck PM after the GE and she staggered on for another two years.moonshine said:
Why do you think such a government would only last the few days needed to send the letter? Someone like Ken Clarke might quite fancy seeing things through to 2022 and trying to get a referendum done in the meantime. He'd be the defacto leader of the British En Marche after all and no doubt enjoying himself immensely.CaptainBuzzkill said:
The government resigning is the answer.kle4 said:
I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.
He cannot stop the Commons doing whatever it wants anymore, he cannot take action other than resignation. But that's such a nuclear option.
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
Why would Johnson request the extension if he has ANY other alternative? It's electoral suicide for him and the party if he does.
The government resigning would be spun as an act of protest, in support of the people, at the way remainers in parliament have thwarted the will of over 17m voters.
Beckett or Corbyn takes over as temp PM and make the extension request followed by an immediate GE.
Labour get annihilated.
There's no evidence that if Corbyn became PM it would be as a mere caretaker, he'd want to show for a reasonable period he's capable of sane and statesmanlike behaviour and possibly even put a few things through to tip the electoral scales in his favour (votes for 16-years old perhaps).
Boris resigning is an incredibly risky move on his part, I don't think he'll do it.0 -
Boris Johnson's recommendation has to be made in good faith. There is no evidence that Jo Swinson could command the confidence of the Commons at present.ozymandias said:
Neither Johnson nor Corbyn want to go anywhere near signing that letter. To both leaders it’s kryptonite. Tories obviously destroyed by BXP, Labour destroyed by both Tories and BXP in subsequent election. The optics of doing it are awful and how it can be used as ammunition by their opponents is just too great a danger.Paristonda said:The prorogation being cancelled does complicate the plan of the opposition somewhat, harder now to just sit tight until the deadline arises for passing an extension. There's no chance of an election being called before an extension is requested, so what will happen for the next couple of weeks? Boris will keep trying to submit requests for an election that won't pass. He may try and force a vonc on himself, and in any case it will be difficult for Labour to continually avoid one.
A situation where there is desparate scrambling and horse trading to agree on a Gonu caretaker candidate seems likely. Corbyn will not get the votes but he won't want to vote down a potential Gonu candidate when push comes to shove, because that would lead to an election too soon, which would be in Boris' interests, not Corbyn's. For all the opposition parties, the safest way out of this now would be to have a Gonu figure pass legislation for May's deal vs Remain, before an election. Certainly having Brexit resolved would be great for Corbyn, and while it may take the wind out of the LD sails, they wouldn't be able to refuse an opportunity for a second referendum if one presented itself.
The only person(s) who can sign without fear are Swinson or AN other as temp caretaker.
Surprises me that no one has suggested Boris could recommend Swinson to HMQ.
This might change if Labour give an indication that they might be prepared to support her as Prime Minister. No such indication has yet been given.
It might make quite an interesting thread header to consider what Boris Johnson's options in those circumstances might be. He does not have a free hand but he can be imaginative. His view is in any case not determinative, though it would be influential.0 -
Boris might recommend Tom Watson just to create maximum problems for Corbynozymandias said:
Neither Johnson nor Corbyn want to go anywhere near signing that letter. To both leaders it’s kryptonite. Tories obviously destroyed by BXP, Labour destroyed by both Tories and BXP in subsequent election. The optics of doing it are awful and how it can be used as ammunition by their opponents is just too great a danger.Paristonda said:The prorogation being cancelled does complicate the plan of the opposition somewhat, harder now to just sit tight until the deadline arises for passing an extension. There's no chance of an election being called before an extension is requested, so what will happen for the next couple of weeks? Boris will keep trying to submit requests for an election that won't pass. He may try and force a vonc on himself, and in any case it will be difficult for Labour to continually avoid one.
A situation where there is desparate scrambling and horse trading to agree on a Gonu caretaker candidate seems likely. Corbyn will not get the votes but he won't want to vote down a potential Gonu candidate when push comes to shove, because that would lead to an election too soon, which would be in Boris' interests, not Corbyn's. For all the opposition parties, the safest way out of this now would be to have a Gonu figure pass legislation for May's deal vs Remain, before an election. Certainly having Brexit resolved would be great for Corbyn, and while it may take the wind out of the LD sails, they wouldn't be able to refuse an opportunity for a second referendum if one presented itself.
The only person(s) who can sign without fear are Swinson or AN other as temp caretaker.
Surprises me that no one has suggested Boris could recommend Swinson to HMQ.1 -
0
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The main revelation from these front pages is that all the senior staff at the Sun are in their 60s, at least, and the chief subeditor is 79. Which is unexpected.0
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Could the Sun just have been poking fun at Lady Hale's appearance? Amazing as it seems that such a thing could happen in the 21st century.SandraMc said:
I am so old that not only did I get the reference and know who Dick Emery was but I knew people who knew him. He once invited a reporter friend who had interviewed him to dinner and when she turned him down, he turned up at her newspaper office declaring he was in love with her (she had only met him the once). Another friend went to one of his many weddings where he spent most of the wedding reception smooching an ex-wife and ignoring his bride.AlastairMeeks said:My main recollection of Dick Emery was that he had a very complicated love life.
I wonder what made the Sun think of a priapic comedian in connection with Boris?
Not that she really resembles either of Dick Emery's female personae - particularly the one who used that catchphrase.0 -
-
Tories went crazy at May 'legitimising' Corbyn by talking to him. Theyd willingly hand him the keys to no.10 by resigning the government? Even with the people vs parliament election plan it's a lot to ask.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ken Clarke has talked in terms of a longer term government and renegotiating Brexit.moonshine said:
Why do you think such a government would only last the few days needed to send the letter? Someone like Ken Clarke might quite fancy seeing things through to 2022 and trying to get a referendum done in the meantime. He'd be the defacto leader of the British En Marche after all and no doubt enjoying himself immensely.CaptainBuzzkill said:
The government resigning is the answer.kle4 said:
I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.
He cannot stop the Commons doing whatever it wants anymore, he cannot take action other than resignation. But that's such a nuclear option.
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
Why would Johnson request the extension if he has ANY other alternative? It's electoral suicide for him and the party if he does.
The government resigning would be spun as an act of protest, in support of the people, at the way remainers in parliament have thwarted the will of over 17m voters.
Beckett or Corbyn takes over as temp PM and make the extension request followed by an immediate GE.
Labour get annihilated.
There's no evidence that if Corbyn perhaps).
Boris resigning is an incredibly risky move on his part, I don't think he'll do it.
Jeremy Corbyn has addressed your point by offering so-called purdah, which is the state governments enter into during an election campaign, when nothing significant can be done; once the election is called, that would be the case anyway. Given the numbers, a Corbyn government that did renege on this could be immediately VONC'd. Corbyn's prize, of course, would be six weeks of wearing a suit in Downing Street without the world coming to an end, which would probably help Labour in the forthcoming election campaign.
Since this sort of short term, circumscribed Labour minority government to extend Article 50 and call an election suits both Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson (who can then run an insurgent election campaign, championing the people against the Establishment) I expect that this, or something very like it, will happen.
I see no other option for them yet it still seems impossible.0 -
PS one of the consequences of yesterday's judgment is that the idea of Boris Johnson trying to sit out the 14 days to force a general election is for the birds. The whole Supreme Court judgment could be summarised in a single sentence: "don't take the piss". The courts would be equally unsympathetic to a delinquent Prime Minister failing to work with the intentions of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act.0
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Boris is all about doing things in good faith.AlastairMeeks said:
Boris Johnson's recommendation has to be made in good faith. There is no evidence that Jo Swinson could command the confidence of the Commons at present.ozymandias said:
Neither Johnson nor Corbyn want to go anywhere near signing that letter. To both leaders it’s kryptonite. Tories obviously destroyed by BXP, Labour destroyed by both Tories and BXP in subsequent election. The optics of doing it are awful and how it can be used as ammunition by their opponents is just too great a danger.Paristonda said:The prorogation being cancelled does complicate the plan of the opposition somewhat, harder now to just sit tight until the deadline arises for passing an extension. There's no chance of an election being called before an extension is requested, so what will happen for the next couple of weeks? Boris will keep trying to submit requests for an election that won't pass. He may try and force a vonc on himself, and in any case it will be difficult for Labour to continually avoid one.
A situation where there is desparate scrambling and horse trading to agree on a Gonu caretaker candidate seems likely. Corbyn will not get the votes but he won't want to vote down a potential Gonu candidate when push comes to shove, because that would lead to an election too soon, which would be in Boris' interests, not Corbyn's. For all the opposition parties, the safest way out of this now would be to have a Gonu figure pass legislation for May's deal vs Remain, before an election. Certainly having Brexit resolved would be great for Corbyn, and while it may take the wind out of the LD sails, they wouldn't be able to refuse an opportunity for a second referendum if one presented itself.
The only person(s) who can sign without fear are Swinson or AN other as temp caretaker.
Surprises me that no one has suggested Boris could recommend Swinson to HMQ.
This might change if Labour give an indication that they might be prepared to support her as Prime Minister. No such indication has yet been given.
It might make quite an interesting thread header to consider what Boris Johnson's options in those circumstances might be. He does not have a free hand but he can be imaginative. His view is in any case not determinative, though it would be influential.0 -
And the squeeze begins. That last opinion poll (I know) will focus minds at CCHQ also.Scott_P said:0 -
Well Ld’s plus independents (chukka and ex-tories et al) plus Whipped tories (to keep out Corbyn) are a majority. DUP could be brought along.AlastairMeeks said:
Boris Johnson's recommendation has to be made in good faith. There is no evidence that Jo Swinson could command the confidence of the Commons at present.ozymandias said:
Neither Johnson nor Corbyn want to go anywhere near signing that letter. To both leaders it’s kryptonite. Tories obviously destroyed by BXP, Labour destroyed by both Tories and BXP in subsequent election. The optics of doing it are awful and how it can be used as ammunition by their opponents is just too great a danger.Paristonda said:The prorogation being cancelled does complicate the plan of the opposition somewhat, harder now to just sit tight until the deadline arises for passing an extension. There's no chance of an election being called before an extension is requested, so what will happen for the next couple of weeks? Boris will keep trying to submit requests for an election that won't pass. He may try and force a vonc on himself, and in any case it will be difficult for Labour to continually avoid one.
A situation where there is desparate scrambling and horse trading to agree on a Gonu caretaker candidate seems likely. Corbyn will not get the votes but he won't want to vote down a potential Gonu candidate when push comes to shove, because that would lead to an election too soon, which would be in Boris' interests, not Corbyn's. For all the opposition parties, the safest way out of this now would be to have a Gonu figure pass legislation for May's deal vs Remain, before an election. Certainly having Brexit resolved would be great for Corbyn, and while it may take the wind out of the LD sails, they wouldn't be able to refuse an opportunity for a second referendum if one presented itself.
The only person(s) who can sign without fear are Swinson or AN other as temp caretaker.
Surprises me that no one has suggested Boris could recommend Swinson to HMQ.
This might change if Labour give an indication that they might be prepared to support her as Prime Minister. No such indication has yet been given.
It might make quite an interesting thread header to consider what Boris Johnson's options in those circumstances might be. He does not have a free hand but he can be imaginative. His view is in any case not determinative, though it would be influential.
Actually makes sense Brexiteers making remainers do the dirty work hence why I think tories could be whipped. Had the added advantage of keeping the Marxist out.0 -
There is one other impossible way out. The Tories have to do a deal with the Brexit Party.kle4 said:
Tories went crazy at May 'legitimising' Corbyn by talking to him. Theyd willingly hand him the keys to no.10 by resigning the government? Even with the people vs parliament election plan it's a lot to ask.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ken Clarke has talked in terms of a longer term government and renegotiating Brexit.moonshine said:
Why do you think such a government would only last the few days needed to send the letter? Someone like Ken Clarke might quite fancy seeing things through to 2022 and trying to get a referendum done in the meantime. He'd be the defacto leader of the British En Marche after all and no doubt enjoying himself immensely.CaptainBuzzkill said:
The government resigning is the answer.kle4 said:
I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.
He cannot stop the Commons doing whatever it wants anymore, he cannot take action other than resignation. But that's such a nuclear option.
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
Why would Johnson request the extension if he has ANY other alternative? It's electoral suicide for him and the party if he does.
The government resigning would be spun as an act of protest, in support of the people, at the way remainers in parliament have thwarted the will of over 17m voters.
Beckett or Corbyn takes over as temp PM and make the extension request followed by an immediate GE.
Labour get annihilated.
There's no evidence that if Corbyn perhaps).
Boris resigning is an incredibly risky move on his part, I don't think he'll do it.
Jeremy Corbyn has addressed your point by offering so-called purdah, which is the state governments enter into during an election campaign, when nothing significant can be done; once the election is called, that would be the case anyway. Given the numbers, a Corbyn government that did renege on this could be immediately VONC'd. Corbyn's prize, of course, would be six weeks of wearing a suit in Downing Street without the world coming to an end, which would probably help Labour in the forthcoming election campaign.
Since this sort of short term, circumscribed Labour minority government to extend Article 50 and call an election suits both Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson (who can then run an insurgent election campaign, championing the people against the Establishment) I expect that this, or something very like it, will happen.
I see no other option for them yet it still seems impossible.0 -
Page has been deleted, posted in errorGallowgate said:
Conference bounce for Labour!TGOHF2 said:0 -
Boris is finished if it gets to Nov 1st and we are still in the EU. And doesn't everyone know it.kle4 said:
Tories went crazy at May 'legitimising' Corbyn by talking to him. Theyd willingly hand him the keys to no.10 by resigning the government? Even with the people vs parliament election plan it's a lot to ask.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ken Clarke has talked in terms of a longer term government and renegotiating Brexit.moonshine said:
Why do you think such a government would only last the few days needed to send the lettert quite fancy seeing things through to 2022 and trying to get a referendum done in the meantime. He'd be the defacto leader of the British En Marche after all and no doubt enjoying himself immensely.CaptainBuzzkill said:
The government resigning is the answer.kle4 said:
I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.
He cannot stop the Commons doing whatever it wants anymore, he cannot take action other than resignation. But that's such a nuclear option.
Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
Why would Johnson request the extension if he has ANY other alternative? It's electoral suicide for him and the party if he does.
The government resigning would be spun as an act of protest, in support of the people, at the way remainers in parliament have thwarted the will of over 17m voters.
Beckett or Corbyn takes over as temp PM and make the extension request followed by an immediate GE.
Labour get annihilated.
There's no evidence that if Corbyn perhaps).
Boris resigning is an incredibly risky move on his part, I don't think he'll do it.
Jeremy Corbyn has addressed your point by offering so-called purdah, which is the state governments enter into during an election campaign, when nothing significant can be done; once the election is called, that would be the case anyway. Given the numbers, a Corbyn government that did renege on this could be immediately VONC'd. Corbyn's prize, of course, would be six weeks of wearing a suit in Downing Street without the world coming to an end, which would probably help Labour in the forthcoming election campaign.
Since this sort of short term, circumscribed Labour minority government to extend Article 50 and call an election suits both Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson (who can then run an insurgent election campaign, championing the people against the Establishment) I expect that this, or something very like it, will happen.
I see no other option for them yet it still seems impossible.0 -
They've easily got the numbers, since Boris helpfully amputated a chunk of his own majority and gave it to them.CaptainBuzzkill said:
Where would the on going support for such a government come from?
It would be challenging enough to get the support for a temporary PM to request an extension.
Beyond Brexit all they really need to agree on is a budget, and the Tories have helpfully gifted them a huge, unfunded pre-election spending splurge, so just do that and take the credit.0 -
The Tories will simply refuse to attend Parliament then during that timeScott_P said:0 -
He'd be a fool. That is likely to also create maximum problems for himself if Watson makes a success of it.HYUFD said:
Boris might recommend Tom Watson just to create maximum problems for Corbynozymandias said:
Neither Johnson nor Corbyn want to go anywhere near signing that letter. To both leaders it’s kryptonite. Tories obviously destroyed by BXP, Labour destroyed by both Tories and BXP in subsequent election. The optics of doing it are awful and how it can be used as ammunition by their opponents is just too great a danger.Paristonda said:The prorogation being cancelled does complicate the plan of the opposition somewhat, harder now to just sit tight until the deadline arises for passing an extension. There's no chance of an election being called before an extension is requested, so what will happen for the next couple of weeks? Boris will keep trying to submit requests for an election that won't pass. He may try and force a vonc on himself, and in any case it will be difficult for Labour to continually avoid one.
A situation where there is desparate scrambling and horse trading to agree on a Gonu caretaker candidate seems likely. Corbyn will not get the votes but he won't want to vote down a potential Gonu candidate when push comes to shove, because that would lead to an election too soon, which would be in Boris' interests, not Corbyn's. For all the opposition parties, the safest way out of this now would be to have a Gonu figure pass legislation for May's deal vs Remain, before an election. Certainly having Brexit resolved would be great for Corbyn, and while it may take the wind out of the LD sails, they wouldn't be able to refuse an opportunity for a second referendum if one presented itself.
The only person(s) who can sign without fear are Swinson or AN other as temp caretaker.
Surprises me that no one has suggested Boris could recommend Swinson to HMQ.0 -
It's a shame they don't say how many flights it takes to put you into the top 1%/10%/20%/etcByronic said:Curious statistics in this Guardian article.
52% of Britons take 100% of international flights. 48% take no flights at all.
*innocent face*
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I'm sure seanT, late of this parish, would have delighted in telling us that he was in the top 0.1%, or something. He was a travel writer, you know.1 -
If Laura K thinks Johnson is n trouble with his own side HYUFD will need some pretty powerful polls before I'd bet on him surviving0
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Still no Labour lead though and Comres is the most pro Labour pollster now, all the movement Tory and LD to Brexit Party with Labour unchanged confirming Boris must stick to his guns and even harden his Brexit stance further, he must under no circumstances whatsoever extend and go into opposition insteadwilliamglenn said:The Boris bounce seems to be over.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1176744281970749441?s=210 -
So what they are working to a deadline. They would also be seen as both anti-democratic and anti-parliamentary. Despite the outpost of resistance in Essex where you will no doubt person the barricades that's not a good look.HYUFD said:
The Tories will simply refuse to attend Parliament then during that timeScott_P said:
Doesn't matter what happens in the interim up to Nov 1st. Tom Watson should go out and bulk buy tubs of lard.0 -
Yes - Mosaic inspired Netscape and the rest was history and we all used Netscape because Bill Gates said the Internet was a waste of time and Micro$oft were not wasting any time on it. Then came the mother of all backtracks and life for webpage builders more then doubled in complexity when the deformed, evil troll that was IE5 was foisted on us all.eristdoof said:
There were text based internet "browsers", but AFAI remember Mosaic was a really big step forward in making the internet usable.Beibheirli_C said:
Slashdot! Dear heavens... a blast from the past. I never liked it all that much because of some of the "theological" arguments on programming style or the GPL, etc. I preferred reading Pamela Jones's Groklaw at the time.JosiasJessop said:I used to read Slashdot regularly fifteen to twenty years ago. Now, when I pop in every so often, it seems a little dead. ISTR there was a takeover that changed it slightly?
And this tells me that I'm getting old - and so is t'Internet and t'web. We're seeing a second generation born of people who have lived whilst the web has existed in a popular, commercial sense. Their world growing up is massively different to the one I grew up in - and much of that is down to the web.
As for the internet, I can remember lying in the bath reading a computer mag of the time that had two interesting stories about new technologies. One about a new graphical interface for the internet and a tool call Mosaic to access it, and the other about the hottest new language of the day - Java.
I used to have to access the internet via WAIS, ftp and telnet via CIX. Then Demon;s dial-up set me free at a sizzling 33.6K
I had no such problems with download speeds as my online access was at uni, it was a good time to be a postgraduate student.1 -
The Dick Emery Show was awful. Even though it was very popular, it wasn't funny, relying on catchphrases and bad jokes. But it was popular for some reason.
The Black and White Minstrels was massively popular. Not my cup of tea, but it broke many records for audience share. It was never overtaken by alternative comedy and remained popular right until it was taken off by the BBC.
Trying to pretend it became unpopular is re-writing history. It was racist and that was the reason the BBC took it off alr.0 -
Yes I remember him. Poor thing confused being a good writer (which he undoubtedly was) with having any kind of a discerning or superior palate.OblitusSumMe said:
It's a shame they don't say how many flights it takes to put you into the top 1%/10%/20%/etcByronic said:Curious statistics in this Guardian article.
52% of Britons take 100% of international flights. 48% take no flights at all.
*innocent face*
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I'm sure seanT, late of this parish, would have delighted in telling us that he was in the top 0.1%, or something. He was a travel writer, you know.0 -
Note the final sentence. I very much doubt the Palace feels obliged to take his word as sacrosanct now. They presumably have already been actively consulting the great and the good about who might fill his shoes if necessary.kle4 said:
Boris is all about doing things in good faith.AlastairMeeks said:
Boris Johnson's recommendation has to be made in good faith. There is no evidence that Jo Swinson could command the confidence of the Commons at present.ozymandias said:
Neither Johnson nor Corbyn want to go anywhere near signing that letter. To both leaders it’s kryptonite. Tories obviously destroyed by BXP, Labour destroyed by both Tories and BXP in subsequent election. The optics of doing it are awful and how it can be used as ammunition by their opponents is just too great a danger.Paristonda said:The prorogation being cancelled does complicate the plan of the opposition somewhat, harder now to just sit tight until the deadline arises for passing an extension. There's no chance of an election being called before an extension is requested, so what will happen for the next couple of weeks? Boris will keep trying to submit requests for an election that won't pass. He may try and force a vonc on himself, and in any case it will be difficult for Labour to continually avoid one.
A situation where there is desparate scrambling and horse trading to agree on a Gonu caretaker candidate seems likely. Corbyn will not get the votes but he won't want to vote down a potential Gonu candidate when push comes to shove, because that would lead to an election too soon, which would be in Boris' interests, not Corbyn's. For all the opposition parties, the safest way out of this now would be to have a Gonu figure pass legislation for May's deal vs Remain, before an election. Certainly having Brexit resolved would be great for Corbyn, and while it may take the wind out of the LD sails, they wouldn't be able to refuse an opportunity for a second referendum if one presented itself.
The only person(s) who can sign without fear are Swinson or AN other as temp caretaker.
Surprises me that no one has suggested Boris could recommend Swinson to HMQ.
This might change if Labour give an indication that they might be prepared to support her as Prime Minister. No such indication has yet been given.
It might make quite an interesting thread header to consider what Boris Johnson's options in those circumstances might be. He does not have a free hand but he can be imaginative. His view is in any case not determinative, though it would be influential.0 -
Boris is not in trouble and if he goes Dominic Raab is certain to replace him on a pact with the Brexit Party ticket for ultra hard BrexitRoger said:If Laura K thinks Johnson is n trouble with his own side HYUFD will need some pretty powerful polls before I'd bet on him surviving
0 -
Losing votes to the Brexit Party means he should double down on legitimising the Brexit Party’s main policy?HYUFD said:
Still no Labour lead though and Comres is the most pro Labour pollster now, all the movement Tory and LD to Brexit Party with Labour unchanged confirming Boris must stick to his guns and even harden his Brexit stance further, he must under no circumstances whatsoever extend and go into opposition insteadwilliamglenn said:The Boris bounce seems to be over.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1176744281970749441?s=210 -
Not correct. They remain passengers in this. They are not going to become actors.AlastairMeeks said:
Note the final sentence. I very much doubt the Palace feels obliged to take his word as sacrosanct now. They presumably have already been actively consulting the great and the good about who might fill his shoes if necessary.kle4 said:
Boris is all about doing things in good faith.AlastairMeeks said:
Boris Johnson's recommendation has to be made in good faith. There is no evidence that Jo Swinson could command the confidence of the Commons at present.ozymandias said:
Neither Johnson nor Corbyn want to go anywhere near signing that letter. To both leaders it’s kryptonite. Tories obviously destroyed by BXP, Labour destroyed by both Tories and BXP in subsequent election. The optics of doing it are awful and how it can be used as ammunition by their opponents is just too great a danger.Paristonda said:The prorogation being cancelled does complicate the plan of the opposition somewhat, harder now to just sit tight until the deadline arises for passing an extension. There's no chance of an election being called before an extension is requested, so what will happen for the next couple of weeks? Boris will keep trying to submit requests for an election that won't pass. He may try and force a vonc on himself, and in any case it will be difficult for Labour to continually avoid one.
A situation where there is desparate scrambling and horse trading to agree on a Gonu caretaker candidate seems likely. Corbyn will not get the votes but he won't want to vote down a potential Gonu candidate when push comes to shove, because that would lead to an election too soon, which would be in Boris' interests, not Corbyn's. For all the opposition parties, the safest way out of this now would be to have a Gonu figure pass legislation for May's deal vs Remain, before an election. Certainly having Brexit resolved would be great for Corbyn, and while it may take the wind out of the LD sails, they wouldn't be able to refuse an opportunity for a second referendum if one presented itself.
The only person(s) who can sign without fear are Swinson or AN other as temp caretaker.
Surprises me that no one has suggested Boris could recommend Swinson to HMQ.
This might change if Labour give an indication that they might be prepared to support her as Prime Minister. No such indication has yet been given.
It might make quite an interesting thread header to consider what Boris Johnson's options in those circumstances might be. He does not have a free hand but he can be imaginative. His view is in any case not determinative, though it would be influential.0 -
There is no majority in Parliament for anything at the moment anyway beyond extension of Article 50 so who caresalex. said:0 -
I haven't been abroad since 2003. I have flown a number of times in the UK though, so I'm not claiming sainthood. Everyone has their vices - frequent flyers really ought to be paying more though.Byronic said:Curious statistics in this Guardian article.
52% of Britons take 100% of international flights. 48% take no flights at all.
*innocent face*
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other0 -
It would split Labour down the middle and probably break it in 2YBarddCwsc said:
He'd be a fool. That is likely to also create maximum problems for himself if Watson makes a success of it.HYUFD said:
Boris might recommend Tom Watson just to create maximum problems for Corbynozymandias said:
Neither Johnson nor Corbyn want to go anywhere near signing that letter. To both leaders it’s kryptonite. Tories obviously destroyed by BXP, Labour destroyed by both Tories and BXP in subsequent election. The optics of doing it are awful and how it can be used as ammunition by their opponents is just too great a danger.Paristonda said:The prorogation being cancelled does complicate the plan of the opposition somewhat, harder now to just sit tight until the deadline arises for passing an extension. There's no chance of an election being called before an extension is requested, so what will happen for the next couple of weeks? Boris will keep trying to submit requests for an election that won't pass. He may try and force a vonc on himself, and in any case it will be difficult for Labour to continually avoid one.
A situation where there is desparate scrambling and horse trading to agree on a Gonu caretaker candidate seems likely. Corbyn will not get the votes but he won't want to vote down a potential Gonu candidate when push comes to shove, because that would lead to an election too soon, which would be in Boris' interests, not Corbyn's. For all the opposition parties, the safest way out of this now would be to have a Gonu figure pass legislation for May's deal vs Remain, before an election. Certainly having Brexit resolved would be great for Corbyn, and while it may take the wind out of the LD sails, they wouldn't be able to refuse an opportunity for a second referendum if one presented itself.
The only person(s) who can sign without fear are Swinson or AN other as temp caretaker.
Surprises me that no one has suggested Boris could recommend Swinson to HMQ.0 -
There would be if the Tories didn’t turn up!!!HYUFD said:
0 -
As an international male model, I must take 50 flights a year minimum. I’m not delighted by the idea of a “progressive flight tax” - where you pay more and more for each ticket, though you get one cheap, untaxed flight a year.OblitusSumMe said:
It's a shame they don't say how many flights it takes to put you into the top 1%/10%/20%/etcByronic said:Curious statistics in this Guardian article.
52% of Britons take 100% of international flights. 48% take no flights at all.
*innocent face*
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I'm sure seanT, late of this parish, would have delighted in telling us that he was in the top 0.1%, or something. He was a travel writer, you know.
It’s a terrible, communistic, North Korean device. 99% of people would have the travel equivalent of a Trabant. One return flight a year. That’s your lot. The super rich 1%, who can afford the most stringent taxes, would have endless flights, the equivalent of a BMW.
It’s such a bad idea that, in this present age of madness, it will probably be tried.0 -
Customs Union and Confirmatory Referendum both came very close in the indicative votes. Put them together in a package and they'll probably pass.HYUFD said:There is no majority in Parliament for anything at the moment anyway beyond extension of Article 50 so who cares
0 -
If none of the Tories turn up, Corbyn would have a majority for whatever he liked.HYUFD said:0 -
Please don't. I know some trans people and the mental health issues caused by their condition can be horrendous. Whatever else it is, trans is not "fashionable".Foxy said:
He was Trans before it was fashionable?AlastairMeeks said:My main recollection of Dick Emery was that he had a very complicated love life.
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