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One thing Farage has got spot on is setting up his new party in a completely undemocratic fashion. Party democracy as practised in the main parties has been hugely damaging for the country.Gallowgate said:0 -
I do fear for him - stress can do strange things to rational peoplemalcolmg said:
You need to see a doctorHYUFD said:
Even if the Tories lost all 13 Scottish seats to the SNP they would still have a majority of 78 with Opinium according to Electoral CalculusSouthamObserver said:
Tory gains in Scotland at the SNP’s expense again!!!HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a Tory landslide and a Tory majority of 104 with this evening's Opinium.Gallowgate said:“The Conservatives are up 3 points to 35% of the vote, while the Brexit party is down 3 points to 13%. The Liberal Democrats are up 2 points to 17% while Labour is down 1 point to 25%.”
Tories 377
Labour 184
LDs 32
Biggest Tory win since Thatcher for Boris if true
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=17&Brexit=14&Green=3&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base0 -
The LDs are more of a threat long term to Corbyn Labour than the Tories as the Brexit Party were more of a threat long term to the Tories than Corbyn LabourGallowgate said:You just know that Labour will spend more time in the coming election campaign attacking the Lib Dems than the Tories.
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England need 383 to win0
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A model showing Tory gains in Scotland at the SNP’s expense is not reliable. Clearly, a 10 point lead is enough for the Tories to win, but by how much is pure guesswork.HYUFD said:
Even if the Tories lost all 13 Scottish seats to the SNP they would still have a majority of 78 with Opinium according to Electoral CalculusSouthamObserver said:
Tory gains in Scotland at the SNP’s expense again!!!HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a Tory landslide and a Tory majority of 104 with this evening's Opinium.Gallowgate said:“The Conservatives are up 3 points to 35% of the vote, while the Brexit party is down 3 points to 13%. The Liberal Democrats are up 2 points to 17% while Labour is down 1 point to 25%.”
Tories 377
Labour 184
LDs 32
Biggest Tory win since Thatcher for Boris if true
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=17&Brexit=14&Green=3&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
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And a DeltapollSouthamObserver said:
There’s bound to be a YouGov.WhisperingOracle said:Any other pollsters due tonight, or later over the weekend ?
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1170383503055347712?s=200 -
Neither are you free to disregard its subsequent interpretation.Byronic said:
You are free to call me a nutter, of course, but you’re not free to dispute the wording of the Treason Felony Act of 1848. Which, prima facie, has the ‘Rebel Alliance’ bang to rights.Dadge said:
Surely you realise that if you write posts like this, then everyone can see you're a nutter?Byronic said:IANAL but it looks to me like the Rebel Alliance have committed treason felony, according to the Act of 1848, which makes it a crime to “wage war against the sovereign” - by word, deed or act - “in order to put any force or constraint upon or in order to intimidate or overawe both Houses or either House of Parliament.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_Felony_Act_1848
If we’re going to lock up the Prime Minister on the basis of a strange new law thrown together last week, then we definitely need to jail the Rebel Alliance on the basis of a fundamental law, which has been in force since the mid 19th century.
Nutter.
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I'll try again since my computer threw a wobbly.solarflare said:The thing with the polls is you have to remember the poll shifts lag the events, not the other way round.
The Tory vote share held up remarkably well right up until the original extension in March and only then did it drop off a cliff. It's been rebounding since Boris was appointed and was making lots of "can do" comments and speeches.
If he does have to end up asking for an extension because Parliament makes him, I wouldn't be surprised to see the polling repeating that.0 -
I'm calling peak Boris - at 10.01 pm when the exit poll gets announced....RobD said:
Weren't we supposed to be at peak boris a few weeks ago?Dadge said:
I think we're at Peak Boris. By the end of October 5% of Tories will have switched (back) to Farage.Philip_Thompson said:
Very easy to see 5% being squeezed from BXP to CON to get to 40% I'm predicting by end of October.Gallowgate said:
Con 35%AndyJS said:
Do we have the figures?Gallowgate said:10% Tory lead in Opinium
Lab 25%
LDem 17%
Brexit 13%1 -
Have you been giving legal advice to Dom? Apparently he's found out that Boris won't have to ask for an extension after all, so perhaps incarcerating the Rebel Alliance for treason is part of it.Byronic said:IANAL but it looks to me like the Rebel Alliance have committed treason felony, according to the Act of 1848, which makes it a crime to “wage war against the sovereign” - by word, deed or act - “in order to put any force or constraint upon or in order to intimidate or overawe both Houses or either House of Parliament.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_Felony_Act_1848
If we’re going to lock up the Prime Minister on the basis of a strange new law thrown together last week, then we definitely need to jail the Rebel Alliance on the basis of a fundamental law, which has been in force since the mid 19th century.0 -
Given the number of Conservative MPs leaving/dismissed, is there a chance of TIG getting bigger again given I doubt the LDs would be willing to give them all candidacies both as it would upset present candidates and branches and laying themselves open to calls from Labour of being “mini-me tories” again?0
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nico67 said:
Who do you think . A surprise say from one of the 21 Tory rebels or something a bit more predictable .nichomar said:Sound of music tonight
Angela smith then Heidi Allen then one or more of the 21nico67 said:
Who do you think . A surprise say from one of the 21 Tory rebels or something a bit more predictable .nichomar said:Sound of music tonight
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Not a bad suggestion . Heidi Allen at the conference would get some good media attention . I think she’d have a good chance of holding her seat .nichomar said:nico67 said:
Who do you think . A surprise say from one of the 21 Tory rebels or something a bit more predictable .nichomar said:Sound of music tonight
Angela smith then Heidi Allen then one or more of the 21nico67 said:
Who do you think . A surprise say from one of the 21 Tory rebels or something a bit more predictable .nichomar said:Sound of music tonight
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The voting records of some of those newly-LibDem Tories are going to be a gift to Labour......beentheredonethat said:Given the number of Conservative MPs leaving/dismissed, is there a chance of TIG getting bigger again given I doubt the LDs would be willing to give them all candidacies both as it would upset present candidates and branches and laying themselves open to calls from Labour of being “mini-me tories” again?
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Wonder if it'll be a regular poll or a KABOOOOOOOM poll?CarlottaVance said:
And a DeltapollSouthamObserver said:
There’s bound to be a YouGov.WhisperingOracle said:Any other pollsters due tonight, or later over the weekend ?
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1170383503055347712?s=20
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It's hard to imagine now, but it wasn't all that long ago we were looking with amusement and incredulity at the chants of "lock her up!" heard across the pond.Stark_Dawning said:
Have you been giving legal advice to Dom? Apparently he's found out that Boris won't have to ask for an extension after all, so perhaps incarcerating the Rebel Alliance for treason is part of it.Byronic said:IANAL but it looks to me like the Rebel Alliance have committed treason felony, according to the Act of 1848, which makes it a crime to “wage war against the sovereign” - by word, deed or act - “in order to put any force or constraint upon or in order to intimidate or overawe both Houses or either House of Parliament.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_Felony_Act_1848
If we’re going to lock up the Prime Minister on the basis of a strange new law thrown together last week, then we definitely need to jail the Rebel Alliance on the basis of a fundamental law, which has been in force since the mid 19th century.
That sort of thing could never happen here, we said. We do politics differently, we said. Well, here we are.1 -
They would certainly seem to me to be a double-edged sword and very likely to staunch the present Lab to LD drift although it would possibly accentuate Con to LD.MarqueeMark said:
The voting records of some of those newly-LibDem Tories are going to be a gift to Labour......beentheredonethat said:Given the number of Conservative MPs leaving/dismissed, is there a chance of TIG getting bigger again given I doubt the LDs would be willing to give them all candidacies both as it would upset present candidates and branches and laying themselves open to calls from Labour of being “mini-me tories” again?
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Root- golden0
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Well the cricket not going too well 0-20
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Oh dear England 0 -2 !0
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What a ball from Cummins.....0
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Remain on Remain warfare.....Gallowgate said:You just know that Labour will spend more time in the coming election campaign attacking the Lib Dems than the Tories.
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Bring Leach out.0
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His previous comment to the deputy editor of the Observer, who wrote up the Opinium poll, is cryptic, to say the least:GIN1138 said:
Wonder if it'll be a regular poll or a KABOOOOOOOM poll? :CarlottaVance said:
And a DeltapollSouthamObserver said:
There’s bound to be a YouGov.WhisperingOracle said:Any other pollsters due tonight, or later over the weekend ?
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1170383503055347712?s=20
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1170383129334489088?s=21
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England’s Ashes hopes were fun while they lasted.0
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I don't think I'll come back for the fifth day.0
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I was offered a Sunday ticket. My reply was non too diplomaticTheScreamingEagles said:I don't think I'll come back for the fifth day.
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Good riddance to him. I doubt there will be many tears amongst other Labour MPs .CarlottaVance said:-1 -
It's got to be Boris on 47%.SouthamObserver said:
His previous comment to the deputy editor of the Observer, who wrote up the Opinium poll, is cryptic, to say the least:GIN1138 said:
Wonder if it'll be a regular poll or a KABOOOOOOOM poll? :CarlottaVance said:
And a DeltapollSouthamObserver said:
There’s bound to be a YouGov.WhisperingOracle said:Any other pollsters due tonight, or later over the weekend ?
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1170383503055347712?s=20
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1170383129334489088?s=210 -
Some bellend at TfGM has decided Sunday would be the perfect day to NOT run trams to Old Trafford.beentheredonethat said:
I was offered a Sunday ticket. My reply was non too diplomaticTheScreamingEagles said:I don't think I'll come back for the fifth day.
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If you honestly believe that the average voter knows diddly squat about a single mp thinks then you may be mistaken. The problems come internally within the host party. Given the problems are mainly around the gay marriage bill the incomes will have to demonstrate their credentials over time. I think we are trying to build a new broad center coalition which is pro EU, pro environment, pro education and strongly for electoral reform.beentheredonethat said:
They would certainly seem to me to be a double-edged sword and very likely to staunch the present Lab to LD drift although it would possibly accentuate Con to LD.MarqueeMark said:
The voting records of some of those newly-LibDem Tories are going to be a gift to Labour......beentheredonethat said:Given the number of Conservative MPs leaving/dismissed, is there a chance of TIG getting bigger again given I doubt the LDs would be willing to give them all candidacies both as it would upset present candidates and branches and laying themselves open to calls from Labour of being “mini-me tories” again?
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Sorry to see John Mann leaving the Commons.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Sadly I am perfectly unsurprisedTheScreamingEagles said:
Some bellend at TfGM has decided Sunday would be the perfect day to NOT run trams to Old Trafford.beentheredonethat said:
I was offered a Sunday ticket. My reply was non too diplomaticTheScreamingEagles said:I don't think I'll come back for the fifth day.
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Hull North votes by ward
Avenue: 52 for reselection, 25 for open selection
Central: 0 for reselection, 2 for open selection
Orchard Park: 4 for reselection, 7 for open selection
North Carr: 4 for reselection, 7 for open selection
West Carr: 3 for reselection, 0 for open selection
University: 6 for reselection, 3 for open selection
Kingswood: 2 for reselection, 1 for open selection
OK, it doesn't look as an organized attempt to deselect.
Barely anyone showed up in the trigger ballot meetings.
And it seems Diana Johnson hasn't done anything to get out her supporters. Quite too nonchalant on her part.0 -
If the rest of tonight's polling is positive for Boris it might allay some of the murmurings after this week in the party.......0
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I took it as he didnt believe the Guardian poll. So suggests his will be closer ?Stark_Dawning said:
It's got to be Boris on 47%.SouthamObserver said:
His previous comment to the deputy editor of the Observer, who wrote up the Opinium poll, is cryptic, to say the least:GIN1138 said:
Wonder if it'll be a regular poll or a KABOOOOOOOM poll? :CarlottaVance said:
And a DeltapollSouthamObserver said:
There’s bound to be a YouGov.WhisperingOracle said:Any other pollsters due tonight, or later over the weekend ?
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1170383503055347712?s=20
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1170383129334489088?s=210 -
I said before all the excitement we would win the third test, then meekly roll over for the Ashes in the fourth....Nigelb said:England’s Ashes hopes were fun while they lasted.
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This quality of Unionist debate is bog standard in Scotland. They have zero policy platform to promote, so they just hurl preposterous abuse. Before Venezuela they were banging on about the Yugoslav war. Cuba is a perennial favourite.Anabobazina said:
You really are funny.TGOHF said:
Under the SNP - no chance . Venezuela is their closest model. Or Cuba.williamglenn said:
You wouldn’t be happy to see Scotland follow an Estonian economic model?TGOHF said:
Nats and the EU are high tax, high spend , puritanical, meddling, authoritarian- and socialist.Anabobazina said:One thing I have never grasped is why the hardest europhobes seem to also be the hardest anti Scots independence. Richard Tyndall is the honourable exception.
They think they’re being clever, but what they are really doing is betraying their profound hatred (often self-hatred). They really do think that Scotland is a basket case and that Scots are complete morons. And then they wonder why they’ve been out of power in Edinburgh for 12 years, with no end in sight.
They are very comfortable with a high tax, high spend, puritanical, meddling and authoritarian Conservative government in London, but the prospect of vibrant, open, innovative, multi-party democracy in Edinburgh horrifies them.0 -
Excellent captaincy I must say by Tim Paine, other captains would probably be more nervous about leaving anything under 400 for England to chase after Headingley.
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I have no doubt your party is attempting to align itself with those policies but when Labour deliver election leaflets saying the only non-Tory vote is for them then I certainly believe that will concern Lab-LD switchers in the constituency concerned.nichomar said:
If you honestly believe that the average voter knows diddly squat about a single mp thinks then you may be mistaken. The problems come internally within the host party. Given the problems are mainly around the gay marriage bill the incomes will have to demonstrate their credentials over time. I think we are trying to build a new broad center coalition which is pro EU, pro environment, pro education and strongly for electoral reform.beentheredonethat said:
They would certainly seem to me to be a double-edged sword and very likely to staunch the present Lab to LD drift although it would possibly accentuate Con to LD.MarqueeMark said:
The voting records of some of those newly-LibDem Tories are going to be a gift to Labour......beentheredonethat said:Given the number of Conservative MPs leaving/dismissed, is there a chance of TIG getting bigger again given I doubt the LDs would be willing to give them all candidacies both as it would upset present candidates and branches and laying themselves open to calls from Labour of being “mini-me tories” again?
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His seat will be a top Tory target anyway - he was toast.GIN1138 said:
Sorry to see John Mann leaving the Commons.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Maybe LDs above Lab with swinson being most approved leaderTGOHF said:
I took it as he didnt believe the Guardian poll. So suggests his will be closer ?Stark_Dawning said:
It's got to be Boris on 47%.SouthamObserver said:
His previous comment to the deputy editor of the Observer, who wrote up the Opinium poll, is cryptic, to say the least:GIN1138 said:
Wonder if it'll be a regular poll or a KABOOOOOOOM poll? :CarlottaVance said:
And a DeltapollSouthamObserver said:
There’s bound to be a YouGov.WhisperingOracle said:Any other pollsters due tonight, or later over the weekend ?
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1170383503055347712?s=20
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1170383129334489088?s=210 -
England still have a hope of saving the match whilst Stokes hasn't been dismissed I reckon.0
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That wasn’t the point it was about individual MPs impacting lab lib dem switchers. I hope where there is a ‘sane’ remain mp in a lab con marginal then it may be better for them to vote labour, the definition of sane is open to interpretation but I would vote for Benn and Starmerbeentheredonethat said:
I have no doubt your party is attempting to align itself with those policies but when Labour deliver election leaflets saying the only non-Tory vote is for them then I certainly believe that will concern Lab-LD switchers in the constituency concerned.nichomar said:
If you honestly believe that the average voter knows diddly squat about a single mp thinks then you may be mistaken. The problems come internally within the host party. Given the problems are mainly around the gay marriage bill the incomes will have to demonstrate their credentials over time. I think we are trying to build a new broad center coalition which is pro EU, pro environment, pro education and strongly for electoral reform.beentheredonethat said:
They would certainly seem to me to be a double-edged sword and very likely to staunch the present Lab to LD drift although it would possibly accentuate Con to LD.MarqueeMark said:
The voting records of some of those newly-LibDem Tories are going to be a gift to Labour......beentheredonethat said:Given the number of Conservative MPs leaving/dismissed, is there a chance of TIG getting bigger again given I doubt the LDs would be willing to give them all candidacies both as it would upset present candidates and branches and laying themselves open to calls from Labour of being “mini-me tories” again?
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Scuffles at an anti Brexit march in London. Soubry crying again
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/anti-brexit-protesters-decry-johnsons-coup-in-london-and-leeds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other0 -
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What a bunch of tossers. They could "stop the coup" by allowing the prime minister to call an election.Byronic said:Scuffles at an anti Brexit march in London. Soubry crying again
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/anti-brexit-protesters-decry-johnsons-coup-in-london-and-leeds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other0 -
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Is he stepping down next election or taking the Chiltern Hundreds?GIN1138 said:
Sorry to see John Mann leaving the Commons.CarlottaVance said:0 -
The hardcore Remainer cause has been captured by the radical left - Momentum etc.kyf_100 said:
What a bunch of tossers. They could "stop the coup" by allowing the prime minister to call an election.Byronic said:Scuffles at an anti Brexit march in London. Soubry crying again
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/anti-brexit-protesters-decry-johnsons-coup-in-london-and-leeds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Politicians like Soubry are foolish to be associated with them.0 -
Looks like resignation first outing in new role late September. One wonders why the government would have an Antisemitism tsar all too bloody obviousPhilip_Thompson said:
Is he stepping down next election or taking the Chiltern Hundreds?GIN1138 said:
Sorry to see John Mann leaving the Commons.CarlottaVance said:0 -
It seems like the pollsters have no idea what would happen in an election.......dyedwoolie said:If the rest of tonight's polling is positive for Boris it might allay some of the murmurings after this week in the party.......
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Boris with a landslide or well hung?0 -
😂😂🤣🤣Byronic said:
The hardcore Remainer cause has been captured by the radical left - Momentum etc.kyf_100 said:
What a bunch of tossers. They could "stop the coup" by allowing the prime minister to call an election.Byronic said:Scuffles at an anti Brexit march in London. Soubry crying again
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/anti-brexit-protesters-decry-johnsons-coup-in-london-and-leeds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Politicians like Soubry are foolish to be associated with them.0 -
Really bad form for a pollster to say he doesn't believe in certain polls he disagrees with.TGOHF said:
I took it as he didnt believe the Guardian poll. So suggests his will be closer ?Stark_Dawning said:
It's got to be Boris on 47%.SouthamObserver said:
His previous comment to the deputy editor of the Observer, who wrote up the Opinium poll, is cryptic, to say the least:GIN1138 said:
Wonder if it'll be a regular poll or a KABOOOOOOOM poll? :CarlottaVance said:
And a DeltapollSouthamObserver said:
There’s bound to be a YouGov.WhisperingOracle said:Any other pollsters due tonight, or later over the weekend ?
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1170383503055347712?s=20
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/1170383129334489088?s=210 -
At least you had some entertainment for your money.TheScreamingEagles said:I don't think I'll come back for the fifth day.
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Heidi Allen, I assume?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Surely they aren't still going on with "Stop The Coup" when they are expicitly denying themselves the chance to "Stop The Coup" with a general election?kyf_100 said:
What a bunch of tossers. They could "stop the coup" by allowing the prime minister to call an election.Byronic said:Scuffles at an anti Brexit march in London. Soubry crying again
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/anti-brexit-protesters-decry-johnsons-coup-in-london-and-leeds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other0 -
With Mann, De Piero and Farrelly all going, this very strongly suggests that they are expecting Labour losses in the Midlands Leaver seats.MarqueeMark said:
His seat will be a top Tory target anyway - he was toast.GIN1138 said:
Sorry to see John Mann leaving the Commons.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I’d go with that.Pulpstar said:England still have a hope of saving the match whilst Stokes hasn't been dismissed I reckon.
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Owen Jones was there so, ya know, top notch peopleGIN1138 said:
Surely they aren't still going on with "Stop The Coup" when they are expicitly denying themselves the chance to "Stop The Coup" with a general election?kyf_100 said:
What a bunch of tossers. They could "stop the coup" by allowing the prime minister to call an election.Byronic said:Scuffles at an anti Brexit march in London. Soubry crying again
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/anti-brexit-protesters-decry-johnsons-coup-in-london-and-leeds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other1 -
I'm afraid so. The headline on that article is "Anti-Brexit protesters decry Johnson's 'coup'" and all the premade signs the protesters are waving contain the hashtag #stopthecoup...GIN1138 said:
Surely they aren't still going on with "Stop The Coup" when they are expicitly denying themselves the chance to "Stop The Coup" with a general election?kyf_100 said:
What a bunch of tossers. They could "stop the coup" by allowing the prime minister to call an election.Byronic said:Scuffles at an anti Brexit march in London. Soubry crying again
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/anti-brexit-protesters-decry-johnsons-coup-in-london-and-leeds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Not many would-be dictators offer their opponents a general election. Now I almost want Boris to surround Heathrow Airport with tanks on general principle. If we're going to have a coup, we might as well have a real one. It may yet be the only way to actually deliver brexit...
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Hung out to dry I hope!nunuone said:
It seems like the pollsters have no idea what would happen in an election.......dyedwoolie said:If the rest of tonight's polling is positive for Boris it might allay some of the murmurings after this week in the party.......
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Boris with a landslide or well hung?0 -
and that includes Bob Willis!Scott_P said:0 -
The pattern seems to be alternating Tory and Labour. It's good opticsAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Heidi Allen, I assume?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Any idea what other polls we should be expecting and what time?0
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Not really, Momentum don't really care about Brexit, they would be happy with a Labour Brexit Deal and socialism.Byronic said:
The hardcore Remainer cause has been captured by the radical left - Momentum etc.kyf_100 said:
What a bunch of tossers. They could "stop the coup" by allowing the prime minister to call an election.Byronic said:Scuffles at an anti Brexit march in London. Soubry crying again
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/anti-brexit-protesters-decry-johnsons-coup-in-london-and-leeds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Politicians like Soubry are foolish to be associated with them.
It is Blairites and Cameroons and the LDs who are diehard Remainers on the whole along with the SNP0 -
Another Labour Leaver is leaving. On the one hand that means they have nothing to lose and can keep voting with the Govrrnment on Brexit. On the other hand if they are replaced with more loyalist and/or europhile candidates it causes Boris more problems if the election results in another hung parliament. The same for several ex Labour Independents ( Austin and Lewis )0
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If you read the report it specifically mentions Momentum. They may not care about Brexit, but they love having a ruck with “evil Tories”HYUFD said:
Not really, Momentum don't really care about Brexit, they would be happy with a Labour Brexit Deal and socialism.Byronic said:
The hardcore Remainer cause has been captured by the radical left - Momentum etc.kyf_100 said:
What a bunch of tossers. They could "stop the coup" by allowing the prime minister to call an election.Byronic said:Scuffles at an anti Brexit march in London. Soubry crying again
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/anti-brexit-protesters-decry-johnsons-coup-in-london-and-leeds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Politicians like Soubry are foolish to be associated with them.
It is Blairites and Cameroons and the LDs who are diehard Remainers on the whole along with the SNP
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Who would have thought that the internet might have emboldened extremists 20 years ago.Byronic said:
The hardcore Remainer cause has been captured by the radical left - Momentum etc.kyf_100 said:
What a bunch of tossers. They could "stop the coup" by allowing the prime minister to call an election.Byronic said:Scuffles at an anti Brexit march in London. Soubry crying again
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/anti-brexit-protesters-decry-johnsons-coup-in-london-and-leeds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Politicians like Soubry are foolish to be associated with them.0 -
Not if she has any sense. And she has.Philip_Thompson said:
But two can play at that game.Fenman said:
I'm really tired of hearing this idiotic statement. The role of the Speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members. He can conform to precedent or move forward as he interprets the will of the House.Gabs2 said:
Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.prh47bridge said:
It has been a formality for three centuries. For over a century the monarchy has kept itself out of politics. If you really think our current Queen will change that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.Philip_Thompson said:
That's not true. It was denied in 1707.prh47bridge said:
He can't. Royal assent is a formality. It is never denied. If Boris tried to drag the Queen into politics by asking her to refuse or delay assent to this bill he will, I am quite certain, be told where to go.Philip_Thompson said:Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.
Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.
Everything is a formality until it isn't.
The role of the speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members.
The role of the monarch is to act on the advice of her ministers, as chosen and given confidence by Parliament.
If her ministers advise to refuse consent then why should the Queen not follow her minister's advise?0 -
Show Trials for the leaders of the remainer traitors in parliament.Byronic said:
You are free to call me a nutter, of course, but you’re not free to dispute the wording of the Treason Felony Act of 1848. Which, prima facie, has the ‘Rebel Alliance’ bang to rights.
Truth & Reconciliation Commission for the rest of the country.-1 -
People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.Fenman said:
Not if she has any sense. And she has.Philip_Thompson said:
But two can play at that game.Fenman said:
I'm really tired of hearing this idiotic statement. The role of the Speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members. He can conform to precedent or move forward as he interprets the will of the House.Gabs2 said:
Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.prh47bridge said:
It has been a formality for three centuries. For over a century the monarchy has kept itself out of politics. If you really think our current Queen will change that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.Philip_Thompson said:
That's not true. It was denied in 1707.prh47bridge said:
He can't. Royal assent is a formality. It is never denied. If Boris tried to drag the Queen into politics by asking her to refuse or delay assent to this bill he will, I am quite certain, be told where to go.Philip_Thompson said:Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.
Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.
Everything is a formality until it isn't.
The role of the speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members.
The role of the monarch is to act on the advice of her ministers, as chosen and given confidence by Parliament.
If her ministers advise to refuse consent then why should the Queen not follow her minister's advise?
HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?0 -
The Labour party is alo being tilted unequivcably remain as the Tories face leave.YBarddCwsc said:
With Mann, De Piero and Farrelly all going, this very strongly suggests that they are expecting Labour losses in the Midlands Leaver seats.MarqueeMark said:
His seat will be a top Tory target anyway - he was toast.GIN1138 said:
Sorry to see John Mann leaving the Commons.CarlottaVance said:
The big two are making sure of ~ 50% voting blocks between them...0 -
OTOH The Tories are more leave now.Yellow_Submarine said:Another Labour Leaver is leaving. On the one hand that means they have nothing to lose and can keep voting with the Govrrnment on Brexit. On the other hand if they are replaced with more loyalist and/or europhile candidates it causes Boris more problems if the election results in another hung parliament. The same for several ex Labour Independents ( Austin and Lewis )
0 -
The parties like the country are polarised. The election will be won by whoever can unite their side of the divide.Pulpstar said:
OTOH The Tories are more leave now.Yellow_Submarine said:Another Labour Leaver is leaving. On the one hand that means they have nothing to lose and can keep voting with the Govrrnment on Brexit. On the other hand if they are replaced with more loyalist and/or europhile candidates it causes Boris more problems if the election results in another hung parliament. The same for several ex Labour Independents ( Austin and Lewis )
0 -
Privy council my arse pull the other one after last weekPhilip_Thompson said:
People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.Fenman said:
Not if she has any sense. And she has.Philip_Thompson said:
But two can play at that game.Fenman said:
I'm really tired of hearing this idiotic statement. The role of the Speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members. He can conform to precedent or move forward as he interprets the will of the House.Gabs2 said:
Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.prh47bridge said:
It has been a formality for three centuries. For over a century the monarchy has kept itself out of politics. If you really think our current Queen will change that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.Philip_Thompson said:
That's not true. It was denied in 1707.prh47bridge said:
He can't. Royal assent is a formality. It is never denied. If Boris tried to drag the Queen into politics by asking her to refuse or delay assent to this bill he will, I am quite certain, be told where to go.Philip_Thompson said:Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.
Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.
Everything is a formality until it isn't.
The role of the speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members.
The role of the monarch is to act on the advice of her ministers, as chosen and given confidence by Parliament.
If her ministers advise to refuse consent then why should the Queen not follow her minister's advise?
HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
0 -
Once Brexit is done this will be a huge problem for Labour.Yellow_Submarine said:Another Labour Leaver is leaving. On the one hand that means they have nothing to lose and can keep voting with the Govrrnment on Brexit. On the other hand if they are replaced with more loyalist and/or europhile candidates it causes Boris more problems if the election results in another hung parliament. The same for several ex Labour Independents ( Austin and Lewis )
They are going to be find themselves in the crowded rejoin space with the LD's, Greens, PC, SNP.
They will all be gutting each other out whilst there will only be one realistic choice for those who do not want to rejoin the EU.0 -
Maybe but they are aligning with Remainers as a means to an end, a Corbyn government not with the end goal of reversing Brexit and staying in the EU like the Blairites, LDs and CameroonsByronic said:
If you read the report it specifically mentions Momentum. They may not care about Brexit, but they love having a ruck with “evil Tories”HYUFD said:
Not really, Momentum don't really care about Brexit, they would be happy with a Labour Brexit Deal and socialism.Byronic said:
The hardcore Remainer cause has been captured by the radical left - Momentum etc.kyf_100 said:
What a bunch of tossers. They could "stop the coup" by allowing the prime minister to call an election.Byronic said:Scuffles at an anti Brexit march in London. Soubry crying again
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/anti-brexit-protesters-decry-johnsons-coup-in-london-and-leeds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Politicians like Soubry are foolish to be associated with them.
It is Blairites and Cameroons and the LDs who are diehard Remainers on the whole along with the SNP0 -
I think that is right. It is an existential threat for Labour.Pulpstar said:
The Labour party is alo being tilted unequivcably remain as the Tories face leave.YBarddCwsc said:
With Mann, De Piero and Farrelly all going, this very strongly suggests that they are expecting Labour losses in the Midlands Leaver seats.MarqueeMark said:
His seat will be a top Tory target anyway - he was toast.GIN1138 said:
Sorry to see John Mann leaving the Commons.CarlottaVance said:
The big two are making sure of ~ 50% voting blocks between them...
Labour can't allow the LibDems to take 20 per cent of the vote, just as the Tories couldn't allow TBP to take 20 per cent. There will be no 'Remainer Pact'.
I suspect this means Boris wins.0 -
We know we're getting a Delta Poll poll (as Martin Boon confirmed on Twitter)Philip_Thompson said:Any idea what other polls we should be expecting and what time?
I would be shocked if we didn't get YouGov as well.0 -
Tabman said:
The pattern seems to be alternating Tory and Labour. It's good opticsAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Heidi Allen, I assume?CarlottaVance said:
Not sure where the next labour one comes from but I’m sure momentum will throw out a few decent candidTes0 -
Having spent three years scorning it, Momentum has finally realised it has allowed a huge movement - and one with a large central database - to build up with no far-left input or control. It is belatedly and unsuccessfully trying to play catch up. Look at the turnout for its demo today compared to those organised by the People's Vote campaign. This is the reason why you can expect Labour not to allow £3 votes in the next leadership election.Byronic said:
If you read the report it specifically mentions Momentum. They may not care about Brexit, but they love having a ruck with “evil Tories”HYUFD said:
Not really, Momentum don't really care about Brexit, they would be happy with a Labour Brexit Deal and socialism.Byronic said:
The hardcore Remainer cause has been captured by the radical left - Momentum etc.kyf_100 said:
What a bunch of tossers. They could "stop the coup" by allowing the prime minister to call an election.Byronic said:Scuffles at an anti Brexit march in London. Soubry crying again
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/anti-brexit-protesters-decry-johnsons-coup-in-london-and-leeds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Politicians like Soubry are foolish to be associated with them.
It is Blairites and Cameroons and the LDs who are diehard Remainers on the whole along with the SNP
0 -
Referendums work perfectly well if the politicians abide by them. On the other hand our Parliamentary system has been failing for decades and is unfit for purpose.stodge said:
I was actually quoting Churchill, not Burke but that doesn't matter much.Richard_Tyndall said:
No. All this because MPs forgot they were delegated to represent their constituents and not their own personal wishes and desires.
I know you all love to quote Burke on this as if he is some sort of prophet but it is worth remembering that Burke's actions based on his own philosophy ruined the businesses and lives of many of those he represented and led to him being thrown out of office 2 years later.
In the end you can make all these claims about 'delegates' rather than 'representatives' but most of the time it is just a smoke screen for MPs doing what they want and sod their constituents.
To be honest, MPs, once elected, can do whatever they like and it's really only their Party that keeps them "in check" via the power of the Whip.
A referendum is not an election - my area, Newham, voted 53-47 to Remain and my MP, Stephen Timms, voted against the invoking of A50 etc. He was representing his constituents and the result of the referendum in his area if not nationally but the 47% who voted Leave in Newham aren't represented at all.
Referenda are ultimately divisive and counter-productive and, apart from local issues, probably don't work in a parliamentary democracy. Clement Attlee saw their dangers as have others.
The nation has had to endure this pain because the Conservative Party was unable to resolve its own internal divisions and decided asking the public would somehow lead to a resolution.0 -
Britain Elects says it has some exclusive polling tonightGIN1138 said:
We know we're getting a Delta Poll poll (as Martin Boon confirmed on Twitter)Philip_Thompson said:Any idea what other polls we should be expecting and what time?
I would be shocked if we didn't get YouGov as well.0 -
Funny you and your fellow travellers seem to think the same thing about Scotland and the English. At least I am consistent in my beliefs.malcolmg said:
It shows they have gone mental, and are living in la la landGallowgate said:
Not sure what relevance that has.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not by choice. Many of us consider their position little different to that of an occupying power.Gallowgate said:
We’re all citizens of that ‘foreign power’.Philip_Thompson said:
The EU is a foreign power for these purposes, the EU's constitution makes this clear. We are not a part of the 27.Fenman said:
The EU is not a foreign power. We are members.Stark_Dawning said:
Weren't they just checking that the EU would indeed grant an extension if one was requested? If anything they were being helpful to Boris - no point losing him his majority if No Deal was nailed on anyway. Boris and Cummings should be thanking them for injecting a bit of clarity and thoroughness.dyedwoolie said:
Tbf if there were secret talks between the EU and the rebels and action agreed to subvert the UK government's position then it is collusion with a foreign power. The government are the only people that can negotiate with the EU.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, Rory's right. They're starting to sound scary.Scott_P said:
The language is of course deliberately provocative and not necessary0 -
Privy Council is constitutionally how HMQ gets her advice from ministers, what do you mean by "my arse pull the other one"?nichomar said:
Privy council my arse pull the other one after last weekPhilip_Thompson said:
People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.Fenman said:
Not if she has any sense. And she has.Philip_Thompson said:
But two can play at that game.Fenman said:
I'm really tired of hearing this idiotic statement. The role of the Speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members. He can conform to precedent or move forward as he interprets the will of the House.Gabs2 said:
Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.prh47bridge said:
It has been a formality for three centuries. For over a century the monarchy has kept itself out of politics. If you really think our current Queen will change that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.Philip_Thompson said:
That's not true. It was denied in 1707.prh47bridge said:
He can't. Royal assent is a formality. It is never denied. If Boris tried to drag the Queen into politics by asking her to refuse or delay assent to this bill he will, I am quite certain, be told where to go.Philip_Thompson said:Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.
Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.
Everything is a formality until it isn't.
The role of the speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members.
The role of the monarch is to act on the advice of her ministers, as chosen and given confidence by Parliament.
If her ministers advise to refuse consent then why should the Queen not follow her minister's advise?
HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
If the Privy Council says "don't assent to this" then why would HMQ assent to it?0 -
Echo chamber isn't its usual Borg-like self tonight.
Looks like they realise what i've been saying all along is true.
Get yourself out and about with normal decent people and gauge the true anger at what remainer MPs are doing to our democracy.0 -
In your scenario, Privy Council basically means the PM.Philip_Thompson said:
Privy Council is constitutionally how HMQ gets her advice from ministers, what do you mean by "my arse pull the other one"?nichomar said:
Privy council my arse pull the other one after last weekPhilip_Thompson said:
People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.Fenman said:
Not if she has any sense. And she has.Philip_Thompson said:
But two can play at that game.Fenman said:
I'm really tired of hearing this idiotic statement. The role of the Speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members. He can conform to precedent or move forward as he interprets the will of the House.Gabs2 said:
Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.prh47bridge said:
It has been a formality for three centuries. For over a century the monarchy has kept itself out of politics. If you really think our current Queen will change that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.Philip_Thompson said:
That's not true. It was denied in 1707.prh47bridge said:
He can't. Royal assent is a formality. It is never denied. If Boris tried to drag the Queen into politics by asking her to refuse or delay assent to this bill he will, I am quite certain, be told where to go.Philip_Thompson said:Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.
Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.
Everything is a formality until it isn't.
The role of the speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members.
The role of the monarch is to act on the advice of her ministers, as chosen and given confidence by Parliament.
If her ministers advise to refuse consent then why should the Queen not follow her minister's advise?
HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
If the Privy Council says "don't assent to this" then why would HMQ assent to it?0 -
We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.
Key:
A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead
Opinium:
A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
D 10%
Panelbase:
A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
D 3%
Survation:
A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
D 5%
YouGov:
A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
D ?%
Deltapoll:
A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
D ?%
A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead0 -
I think the we are going to break him and trap him in number 10 comments seeping out from opposition mps plus the 'we will decide when you get to vote' stuff ultimately is very counter productive to them.
Its goading the electorate into backing the beleaguered PM and showing parliament who is really sovereign.
The anger is real.0 -
The privy council consist of a few more than the three that went to balmoral and is not restricted to current government ministers. I invite you to show me where that is where she must gets advice from government ministers to inform her decisions. if that really is the privy council then it’s not fit for purposePhilip_Thompson said:
Privy Council is constitutionally how HMQ gets her advice from ministers, what do you mean by "my arse pull the other one"?nichomar said:
Privy council my arse pull the other one after last weekPhilip_Thompson said:
People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.Fenman said:
Not if she has any sense. And she has.Philip_Thompson said:
But two can play at that game.Fenman said:
I'm really tired of hearing this idiotic statement. The role of the Speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members. He can conform to precedent or move forward as he interprets the will of the House.Gabs2 said:
Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.prh47bridge said:
It has been a formality for three centuries. For over a century the monarchy has kept itself out of politics. If you really think our current Queen will change that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.Philip_Thompson said:
That's not true. It was denied in 1707.prh47bridge said:
He can't. Royal assent is a formality. It is never denied. If Boris tried to drag the Queen into politics by asking her to refuse or delay assent to this bill he will, I am quite certain, be told where to go.Philip_Thompson said:Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.
Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.
Everything is a formality until it isn't.
The role of the speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members.
The role of the monarch is to act on the advice of her ministers, as chosen and given confidence by Parliament.
If her ministers advise to refuse consent then why should the Queen not follow her minister's advise?
HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
If the Privy Council says "don't assent to this" then why would HMQ assent to it?1 -
The problem each of them has though is that they are not exclusive blocs. Both have smaller parties which can strip votes from them.Pulpstar said:
The Labour party is alo being tilted unequivcably remain as the Tories face leave.YBarddCwsc said:
With Mann, De Piero and Farrelly all going, this very strongly suggests that they are expecting Labour losses in the Midlands Leaver seats.MarqueeMark said:
His seat will be a top Tory target anyway - he was toast.GIN1138 said:
Sorry to see John Mann leaving the Commons.CarlottaVance said:
The big two are making sure of ~ 50% voting blocks between them...
My hope of course is that this is a bigger problem for Remain than Leave but I wouldn't like to call it.0 -
Privy Council quorom is HMQ plus 3 Privy Councillors. In my scenario I expect it would be Jacob Rees Mogg (Lord President) and 2 others, probably PM and Secretary of State for Exiting the EU.RobD said:
In your scenario, Privy Council basically means the PM.Philip_Thompson said:
Privy Council is constitutionally how HMQ gets her advice from ministers, what do you mean by "my arse pull the other one"?nichomar said:
Privy council my arse pull the other one after last weekPhilip_Thompson said:
People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.Fenman said:
Not if she has any sense. And she has.Philip_Thompson said:
But two can play at that game.Fenman said:
I'm really tired of hearing this idiotic statement. The role of the Speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members. He can conform to precedent or move forward as he interprets the will of the House.Gabs2 said:
Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.prh47bridge said:
It has been a formality for three centuries. For over a century the monarchy has kept itself out of politics. If you really think our current Queen will change that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.Philip_Thompson said:
That's not true. It was denied in 1707.prh47bridge said:
He can't. Royal assent is a formality. It is never denied. If Boris tried to drag the Queen into politics by asking her to refuse or delay assent to this bill he will, I am quite certain, be told where to go.Philip_Thompson said:Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.
Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.
Everything is a formality until it isn't.
The role of the speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members.
The role of the monarch is to act on the advice of her ministers, as chosen and given confidence by Parliament.
If her ministers advise to refuse consent then why should the Queen not follow her minister's advise?
HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
If the Privy Council says "don't assent to this" then why would HMQ assent to it?0 -
Yeah, but for all intents and purposes the advice is coming from the PM on such matters.Philip_Thompson said:
Privy Council quorom is HMQ plus 3 Privy Councillors. In my scenario I expect it would be Jacob Rees Mogg (Lord President) and 2 others, probably PM and Secretary of State for Exiting the EU.RobD said:
In your scenario, Privy Council basically means the PM.Philip_Thompson said:
Privy Council is constitutionally how HMQ gets her advice from ministers, what do you mean by "my arse pull the other one"?nichomar said:
Privy council my arse pull the other one after last weekPhilip_Thompson said:
People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.Fenman said:
Not if she has any sense. And she has.Philip_Thompson said:
But two can play at that game.Fenman said:
I'm really tired of hearing this idiotic statement. The role of the Speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members. He can conform to precedent or move forward as he interprets the will of the House.Gabs2 said:
Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.prh47bridge said:
It has been a formality for three centuries. For over a century the monarchy has kept itself out of politics. If you really think our current Queen will change that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.Philip_Thompson said:
That's not true. It was denied in 1707.prh47bridge said:
He can't. Royal assent is a formality. It is never denied. If Boris tried to drag the Queen into politics by asking her to refuse or delay assent to this bill he will, I am quite certain, be told where to go.Philip_Thompson said:Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.
Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.
Everything is a formality until it isn't.
The role of the speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members.
The role of the monarch is to act on the advice of her ministers, as chosen and given confidence by Parliament.
If her ministers advise to refuse consent then why should the Queen not follow her minister's advise?
HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
If the Privy Council says "don't assent to this" then why would HMQ assent to it?0
