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  • nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    Fenman said:

    Fenman said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.

    Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.

    He can't. Royal assent is a formality. It is never denied. If Boris tried to drag the Queen into politics by asking her to refuse or delay assent to this bill he will, I am quite certain, be told where to go.
    That's not true. It was denied in 1707.

    Everything is a formality until it isn't.
    It has been a formality for three centuries. For over a century the monarchy has kept itself out of politics. If you really think our current Queen will change that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
    Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.
    I'm really tired of hearing this idiotic statement. The role of the Speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members. He can conform to precedent or move forward as he interprets the will of the House.
    But two can play at that game.

    The role of the speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members.

    The role of the monarch is to act on the advice of her ministers, as chosen and given confidence by Parliament.

    If her ministers advise to refuse consent then why should the Queen not follow her minister's advise?
    Not if she has any sense. And she has.
    People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.

    HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
    Privy council my arse pull the other one after last week
    Privy Council is constitutionally how HMQ gets her advice from ministers, what do you mean by "my arse pull the other one"?

    If the Privy Council says "don't assent to this" then why would HMQ assent to it?
    The privy council consist of a few more than the three that went to balmoral to advise the queen if that really is the privy council then it’s not fit for purpose
    That is how the Privy Council works. The government picks 3 Privy Councillors and sends them to meet the Queen.

    If the Commons isn't happy with how the government exercises its executive powers then the Commons can No Confidence the government.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    Fenman said:

    Fenman said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.

    Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.

    He can't. Royal assent is a formality. It is never denied. If Boris tried to drag the Queen into politics by asking her to refuse or delay assent to this bill he will, I am quite certain, be told where to go.
    That's not true. It was denied in 1707.

    Everything is a formality until it isn't.
    It has been a formality for three centuries. For over a century the monarchy has kept itself out of politics. If you really think our current Queen will change that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
    Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.
    I'm really tired of hearing this idiotic statement. The role of the Speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members. He can conform to precedent or move forward as he interprets the will of the House.
    But two can play at that game.

    The role of the speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members.

    The role of the monarch is to act on the advice of her ministers, as chosen and given confidence by Parliament.

    If her ministers advise to refuse consent then why should the Queen not follow her minister's advise?
    Not if she has any sense. And she has.
    People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.

    HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
    Privy council my arse pull the other one after last week
    Privy Council is constitutionally how HMQ gets her advice from ministers, what do you mean by "my arse pull the other one"?

    If the Privy Council says "don't assent to this" then why would HMQ assent to it?
    The privy council consist of a few more than the three that went to balmoral to advise the queen if that really is the privy council then it’s not fit for purpose

    Isn’t the Cabinet a subcommittee of the Privy Council?
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    I might be repeating what others have said but Panelbase is striking for the “shape” of the shares. Labour and the LibDems at the high end of their range, and BXP too. No way to know which is right until we see more real votes, but it would be interesting to get into the methodological differences.
  • RobD said:

    Yeah, but for all intents and purposes the advice is coming from the PM on such matters.

    Yes. As it should be in a democracy.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    viewcode said:

    We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.

    Key:
    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Opinium:
    A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
    B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
    C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
    D 10%

    Panelbase:
    A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
    B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
    C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
    D 3%

    Survation:
    A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
    B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
    C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
    D 5%

    YouGov:
    A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    Deltapoll:
    A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Without dates for those polls you information is worthless.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    eek said:

    viewcode said:

    We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.

    Key:
    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Opinium:
    A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
    B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
    C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
    D 10%

    Panelbase:
    A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
    B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
    C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
    D 3%

    Survation:
    A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
    B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
    C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
    D 5%

    YouGov:
    A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    Deltapoll:
    A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Without dates for those polls you information is worthless.
    I thank him for his efforts nonetheless.
  • viewcode said:

    We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.

    Key:
    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Opinium:
    A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
    B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
    C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
    D 10%

    Panelbase:
    A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
    B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
    C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
    D 3%

    Survation:
    A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
    B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
    C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
    D 5%

    YouGov:
    A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    Deltapoll:
    A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Thank you for this.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    eek said:

    viewcode said:

    We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.

    Key:
    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Opinium:
    A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
    B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
    C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
    D 10%

    Panelbase:
    A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
    B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
    C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
    D 3%

    Survation:
    A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
    B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
    C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
    D 5%

    YouGov:
    A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    Deltapoll:
    A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Without dates for those polls you information is worthless.
    So go look up the dates and fill them in.
  • Thank you viewcode, great summary.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    edited September 2019
    RobD said:

    eek said:

    viewcode said:

    We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.

    Key:
    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Opinium:
    A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
    B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
    C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
    D 10%

    Panelbase:
    A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
    B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
    C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
    D 3%

    Survation:
    A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
    B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
    C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
    D 5%

    YouGov:
    A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    Deltapoll:
    A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Without dates for those polls you information is worthless.
    I thank him for his efforts nonetheless.
    It is always nice to be thanked.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    eek said:

    viewcode said:

    We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.

    Key:
    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Opinium:
    A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
    B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
    C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
    D 10%

    Panelbase:
    A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
    B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
    C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
    D 3%

    Survation:
    A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
    B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
    C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
    D 5%

    YouGov:
    A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    Deltapoll:
    A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Without dates for those polls you information is worthless.
    Charmless.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited September 2019

    RobD said:

    Yeah, but for all intents and purposes the advice is coming from the PM on such matters.

    Yes. As it should be in a democracy.
    Given that many privy councilors were waiting for a meeting to be organized of the said privy council tells us that maybe privy councilors don’t know what their job is. There should only be three Rt Hon the rest are irrelevant if that is the case
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    Yes, sorry, meant to thank you as well. Always useful to see stuff summarised.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    eek said:

    viewcode said:

    We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.

    Key:
    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Opinium:
    A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
    B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
    C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
    D 10%

    Panelbase:
    A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
    B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
    C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
    D 3%

    Survation:
    A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
    B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
    C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
    D 5%

    YouGov:
    A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    Deltapoll:
    A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Without dates for those polls you information is worthless.
    Charmless.
    +1
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    Not much help but I have been stuck with apple for donkeys years now and although I am deeply unhappy with their pricing strategies I would be loathe to switch and start learning another companies style.

  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    "Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Commission turned round on you — where would you hide, Boris, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast — Benn's laws, not God's — and if you cut them down — and you're just the man to do it — d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Remain campaign benefit of law, for my own safety's sake."

    ~with apologies to Robert Bolt, and probably to Sunil who would have done this better
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    If other weekend polls are similar to the Panelbase and Survation ones, Johnson is in deep, deep trouble. Big if, though.

    Be amusing if Corbyn reads these polls and thinks "I'd like a vote now afterall".
    Not if he is going to lose at least 21 Labour seats as Panelbase predicts
    On the basis of UNS , Panelbase would see Labour losing 7 seats to the Tories - but 4 of them would enjoy first term incumbency - likely to be important in context of such a tiny overall swing.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    I've had iPads for years, but mine was slowing down, and I've just bought a Samsung S5e Tab, which I'm really enjoying using. Excellent screen, without the Apple Tax.

    If you are looking for an IPad, Amazon have been pricing the basic one in the £250 to 299 range, or try the Apple Refurbished store, as these are often just returns or old stock at a reasonable price.

    https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/refurbished/ipad
  • nichomar said:

    RobD said:

    Yeah, but for all intents and purposes the advice is coming from the PM on such matters.

    Yes. As it should be in a democracy.
    Given that many privy councilors were waiting for a meeting to be organized of the said privy council tells us that maybe privy councilors don’t know what their job is. There should only be three Rt Hon the rest are irrelevant if that is the case
    Just because some don't know what the role means doesn't mean that all don't.

    Quorum is 3+HMQ. Won't be the same 3 every time though.
  • justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    If other weekend polls are similar to the Panelbase and Survation ones, Johnson is in deep, deep trouble. Big if, though.

    Be amusing if Corbyn reads these polls and thinks "I'd like a vote now afterall".
    Not if he is going to lose at least 21 Labour seats as Panelbase predicts
    On the basis of UNS , Panelbase would see Labour losing 7 seats to the Tories - but 4 of them would enjoy first term incumbency - likely to be important in context of such a tiny overall swing.
    No doubt you've done the figures on Opinium too?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:
    What a bunch of tossers. They could "stop the coup" by allowing the prime minister to call an election.
    That would be the wrong type of democracy it seems.......
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    eek said:

    viewcode said:

    We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.

    Key:
    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Opinium:
    A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
    B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
    C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
    D 10%

    Panelbase:
    A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
    B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
    C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
    D 3%

    Survation:
    A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
    B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
    C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
    D 5%

    YouGov:
    A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    Deltapoll:
    A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Without dates for those polls you information is worthless.
    You obviously haven't been laid recently...
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605

    RobD said:

    nichomar said:

    Fenman said:

    Fenman said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.

    Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.

    He can't. Royal assent is a formality. It is never denied. If Boris tried to drag the Queen into politics by asking her to refuse or delay assent to this bill he will, I am quite certain, be told where to go.
    That's not true. It was denied in 1707.

    Everything is a formality until it isn't.
    It has been a formality for three centuries. For over a century the monarchy has kept itself out of politics. If you really think our current Queen will change that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
    Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.
    I'm really tired of hearing this idiotic statement. The role of the Speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members. He can conform to precedent or move forward as he interprets the will of the House.
    Not if she has any sense. And she has.
    People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.

    HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
    Privy council my arse pull the other one after last week
    Privy Council is constitutionally how HMQ gets her advice from ministers, what do you mean by "my arse pull the other one"?

    If the Privy Council says "don't assent to this" then why would HMQ assent to it?
    In your scenario, Privy Council basically means the PM.
    Privy Council quorom is HMQ plus 3 Privy Councillors. In my scenario I expect it would be Jacob Rees Mogg (Lord President) and 2 others, probably PM and Secretary of State for Exiting the EU.
    It might be the quorum but what is to stop say another five Privy Councillors turning up to give their advice? Normally notice has to be given of a meeting. Does the Privy Council have "Articles" or a constitution which define these matters?
  • Floater said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:
    What a bunch of tossers. They could "stop the coup" by allowing the prime minister to call an election.
    That would be the wrong type of democracy it seems.......
    Remainers attitude to democracy is either to ignore the result or just prevent it happening in the first place.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,264
    edited September 2019

    GIN1138 said:

    With Mann, De Piero and Farrelly all going, this very strongly suggests that they are expecting Labour losses in the Midlands Leaver seats.
    Was canvassed by Gloria and team today.

    They confirmed that she was still leaving, despite her remaining 3 years having suddenly turned into 3 months.

    Time to spend that £30k or whatever into a long cruise.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    RobD said:

    Yeah, but for all intents and purposes the advice is coming from the PM on such matters.

    Yes. As it should be in a democracy.
    Given that many privy councilors were waiting for a meeting to be organized of the said privy council tells us that maybe privy councilors don’t know what their job is. There should only be three Rt Hon the rest are irrelevant if that is the case
    Just because some don't know what the role means doesn't mean that all don't.

    Quorum is 3+HMQ. Won't be the same 3 every time though.
    But it will never be John major Ken Clarke and tony Blair
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2019
    Everyone has politicians they simply don't like, often for irrational reasons. For me, it's Hilary Benn and Keir Starmer. It's funny/odd in a way, because I've always been a big fan of Tony Benn. I like reading his diaries very much.
  • There is an obvious way out for Boris, but it requires cutting NI loose:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/could-boris-johnson-cut-northern-ireland-loose/amp/

    Actually, that's a bit dramatic. It would still be part of the UK but operating under different customs and regulatory rules in certain areas, so more detached. It would allow, though, mainland GB to fully exit the single market and customs union immediately following a transition period. It's also on the table from the EU because it's what they offered in the first place.

    As soon as a GE campaign is called (and parliament dissolved) he could cut the DUP loose in the hope of an overall majority, and make any such deal subject to ratification via a vote in a new NI assembly and an updated GFA.

    Problems would include Scotland wanting similar treatment and it would probably stoke the independence movement there. But it would deliver a 'Deal' that most of his party could accept.
  • AndyJS said:

    Everyone has politicians they simply can't stand, often for irrational reasons. For me, it's Hilary Benn and Keir Starmer. It's funny/odd in a way, because I've always been a big fan of Tony Benn. I like reading his diaries very much.

    That's odd.

    Whilst not sharing his politics I've always rather liked Hilary Benn.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    AndyJS said:

    Everyone has politicians they simply can't stand, often for irrational reasons. For me, it's Hilary Benn and Keir Starmer. It's funny/odd in a way, because I've always been a big fan of Tony Benn. I like reading his diaries very much.

    I assume that was a response to me?
  • eek said:

    viewcode said:

    We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.

    Key:
    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Opinium:
    A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
    B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
    C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
    D 10%

    Panelbase:
    A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
    B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
    C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
    D 3%

    Survation:
    A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
    B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
    C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
    D 5%

    YouGov:
    A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    Deltapoll:
    A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Without dates for those polls you information is worthless.
    What's your free contribution to the site with research and effort for the benefit and interest of others with no obvious reward?

    Can you let us know, so we can rudely criticise as well please?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    There is an obvious way out for Boris, but it requires cutting NI loose:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/could-boris-johnson-cut-northern-ireland-loose/amp/

    Actually, that's a bit dramatic. It would still be part of the UK but operating under different customs and regulatory rules in certain areas, so more detached. It would allow, though, mainland GB to fully exit the single market and customs union immediately following a transition period. It's also on the table from the EU because it's what they offered in the first place.

    As soon as a GE campaign is called (and parliament dissolved) he could cut the DUP loose in the hope of an overall majority, and make any such deal subject to ratification via a vote in a new NI assembly and an updated GFA.

    Problems would include Scotland wanting similar treatment and it would probably stoke the independence movement there. But it would deliver a 'Deal' that most of his party could accept.

    But apparently that’s anti democratic because NI would have to accept EU rules without representation as they no longer have MEPs
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    There is an obvious way out for Boris, but it requires cutting NI loose:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/could-boris-johnson-cut-northern-ireland-loose/amp/

    Actually, that's a bit dramatic. It would still be part of the UK but operating under different customs and regulatory rules in certain areas, so more detached. It would allow, though, mainland GB to fully exit the single market and customs union immediately following a transition period. It's also on the table from the EU because it's what they offered in the first place.

    As soon as a GE campaign is called (and parliament dissolved) he could cut the DUP loose in the hope of an overall majority, and make any such deal subject to ratification via a vote in a new NI assembly and an updated GFA.

    Problems would include Scotland wanting similar treatment and it would probably stoke the independence movement there. But it would deliver a 'Deal' that most of his party could accept.

    You mean like the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Falklands etc. Maybe you could even hide your tax dodged money.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    viewcode said:

    We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.

    Key:
    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Opinium:
    A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
    B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
    C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
    D 10%

    Panelbase:
    A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
    B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
    C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
    D 3%

    Survation:
    A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
    B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
    C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
    D 5%

    YouGov:
    A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    Deltapoll:
    A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    We had Panelbase earlier didn't we? Its YouGov and Delta Poll that's due later I think?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    I've had iPads for years, but mine was slowing down, and I've just bought a Samsung S5e Tab, which I'm really enjoying using. Excellent screen, without the Apple Tax.

    If you are looking for an IPad, Amazon have been pricing the basic one in the £250 to 299 range, or try the Apple Refurbished store, as these are often just returns or old stock at a reasonable price.

    https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/refurbished/ipad
    Thank you very much.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    eek said:

    viewcode said:

    We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.

    Key:
    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Opinium:
    A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
    B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
    C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
    D 10%

    Panelbase:
    A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
    B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
    C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
    D 3%

    Survation:
    A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
    B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
    C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
    D 5%

    YouGov:
    A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    Deltapoll:
    A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Without dates for those polls you information is worthless.
    What's your free contribution to the site with research and effort for the benefit and interest of others with no obvious reward?

    Can you let us know, so we can rudely criticise as well please?
    I'm merely pointing out that polls are snapshots without dates it's impossible to gauge what was happening at the time.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    nichomar said:

    Fenman said:

    Fenman said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.

    Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.

    He can't. Royal assent is a formality. It is never denied. If Boris tried to drag the Queen into politics by asking her to refuse or delay assent to this bill he will, I am quite certain, be told where to go.
    That's not true. It was denied in 1707.

    Everything is a formality until it isn't.
    It has been a formality for three centuries. For over a century the monarchy has kept itself out of politics. If you really think our current Queen will change that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
    Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.
    I'm really tired of hearing this idiotic statement. The role of the Speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members. He can conform to precedent or move forward as he interprets the will of the House.
    Not if she has any sense. And she has.
    People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.

    HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
    Privy council my arse pull the other one after last week
    Privy Council is constitutionally how HMQ gets her advice from ministers, what do you mean by "my arse pull the other one"?

    If the Privy Council says "don't assent to this" then why would HMQ assent to it?
    In your scenario, Privy Council basically means the PM.
    Privy Council quorom is HMQ plus 3 Privy Councillors. In my scenario I expect it would be Jacob Rees Mogg (Lord President) and 2 others, probably PM and Secretary of State for Exiting the EU.
    It might be the quorum but what is to stop say another five Privy Councillors turning up to give their advice? Normally notice has to be given of a meeting. Does the Privy Council have "Articles" or a constitution which define these matters?
    Do they have to wear uniforms like shorts and suspenders ?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,573

    viewcode said:

    We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.

    Key:
    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Opinium:
    A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
    B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
    C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
    D 10%

    Panelbase:
    A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
    B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
    C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
    D 3%

    Survation:
    A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
    B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
    C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
    D 5%

    YouGov:
    A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    Deltapoll:
    A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Thank you for this.

    +1. Grateful for people who do number crunching and organising like this. It's really helpful
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    “The Conservatives are up 3 points to 35% of the vote, while the Brexit party is down 3 points to 13%. The Liberal Democrats are up 2 points to 17% while Labour is down 1 point to 25%.”

    Electoral Calculus gives a Tory landslide and a Tory majority of 104 with this evening's Opinium.

    Tories 377
    Labour 184
    LDs 32

    Biggest Tory win since Thatcher for Boris if true

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=17&Brexit=14&Green=3&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
    But those figures are nonsense in terms of UNS! Opinium implies 30 Tory gains from Labour offset by 13 losses to the LDs and circa 10 losses to SNP. That would take them to 324 seats - a bare effective majority still on cusp of needing DUP support.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    nichomar said:

    Fenman said:

    Fenman said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.

    Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.

    He can't. Royal assent is a formality. It is never denied. If Boris tried to drag the Queen into politics by asking her to refuse or delay assent to this bill he will, I to go.
    That's not true. It was denied in 1707.

    Everything is a formality until it isn't.
    It has been a formality for three centuries. For over a century the monarchy has kept itself out of politics. If you really think our current Queen will change that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
    Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.
    I'm really tired of hearing this idiotic statement. The role of the Speaker is to represent the interests of Parliament and its members. He can conform to precedent or move forward as he interprets the will of the House.
    Not if she has any sense. And she has.
    People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.

    HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
    Privy council my arse pull the other one after last week
    Privy Council is constitutionally how HMQ gets her advice from ministers, what do you mean by "my arse pull the other one"?

    If the Privy Council says "don't assent to this" then why would HMQ assent to it?
    In your scenario, Privy Council basically means the PM.
    Privy Council quorom is HMQ plus 3 Privy Councillors. In my scenario I expect it would be Jacob Rees Mogg (Lord President) and 2 others, probably PM and Secretary of State for Exiting the EU.
    It might be the quorum but what is to stop say another five Privy Councillors turning up to give their advice? Normally notice has to be given of a meeting. Does the Privy Council have "Articles" or a constitution which define these matters?
    Do they have to wear uniforms like shorts and suspenders ?
    It's all gender-neutral these days don't you know.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    As an iPad Pro owner, I stopped reading at “reasonably priced”.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    “The Conservatives are up 3 points to 35% of the vote, while the Brexit party is down 3 points to 13%. The Liberal Democrats are up 2 points to 17% while Labour is down 1 point to 25%.”

    Electoral Calculus gives a Tory landslide and a Tory majority of 104 with this evening's Opinium.

    Tories 377
    Labour 184
    LDs 32

    Biggest Tory win since Thatcher for Boris if true

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=17&Brexit=14&Green=3&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
    But those figures are nonsense in terms of UNS! Opinium implies 30 Tory gains from Labour offset by 13 losses to the LDs and circa 10 losses to SNP. That would take them to 324 seats - a bare effective majority still on cusp of needing DUP support.
    You choose the model you want to get the answer you want no flavible projections yet
  • Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    In your scenario, Privy Council basically means the PM.

    Privy Council quorom is HMQ plus 3 Privy Councillors. In my scenario I expect it would be Jacob Rees Mogg (Lord President) and 2 others, probably PM and Secretary of State for Exiting the EU.
    It might be the quorum but what is to stop say another five Privy Councillors turning up to give their advice? Normally notice has to be given of a meeting. Does the Privy Council have "Articles" or a constitution which define these matters?
    Its not that sort of meeting where anyone can turn up. You have to be invited and the government will choose which 3 are invited when they're giving advice.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    As an alternative have a look at the smaller Chromebooks. Very versatile and good value.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    eek said:

    eek said:

    viewcode said:

    We have another two due tonight: YouGov and Panelbase, giving a total of five polls. Here is the summary.

    Key:
    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Opinium:
    A: Con32%, Lab26%, Lib15%, BXP16%
    B: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib17%, BXP13%
    C: Con+3%, Lab-1%, Lib+2%, BXP-3%
    D 10%

    Panelbase:
    A: Con21%, Lab31%, Lib13%, BXP19%
    B: Con31%. Lab28%, Lib19%, BXP15%
    C: Co+10%, Lab-3%, Lib+6%, BXP-4%
    D 3%

    Survation:
    A: Con31%, Lab24%, Lib21%, BXP14%
    B: Con29%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP17%
    C: Con-2%, Lab+0%, Lib-3%, BXP+3%
    D 5%

    YouGov:
    A: Con35%, Lab25%, Lib16%, BXP11%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    Deltapoll:
    A: Con35%, Lab24%, Lib18%, BXP14%
    B: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    C: Con??%, Lab??%, Lib??%, BXP??%
    D ?%

    A=previous poll, B=this poll, C=change since last poll, D=Con lead

    Without dates for those polls you information is worthless.
    What's your free contribution to the site with research and effort for the benefit and interest of others with no obvious reward?

    Can you let us know, so we can rudely criticise as well please?
    I'm merely pointing out that polls are snapshots without dates it's impossible to gauge what was happening at the time.
    Of course it is possible. We know that rough frequency of the polls, because they are covered on pb.com when they are released.

    We are interpreting rather crude polling & getting a rough direction of travel. We are not measuring the Lamb shift in QED.
  • There is an obvious way out for Boris, but it requires cutting NI loose:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/could-boris-johnson-cut-northern-ireland-loose/amp/

    Actually, that's a bit dramatic. It would still be part of the UK but operating under different customs and regulatory rules in certain areas, so more detached. It would allow, though, mainland GB to fully exit the single market and customs union immediately following a transition period. It's also on the table from the EU because it's what they offered in the first place.

    As soon as a GE campaign is called (and parliament dissolved) he could cut the DUP loose in the hope of an overall majority, and make any such deal subject to ratification via a vote in a new NI assembly and an updated GFA.

    Problems would include Scotland wanting similar treatment and it would probably stoke the independence movement there. But it would deliver a 'Deal' that most of his party could accept.

    You mean like the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Falklands etc. Maybe you could even hide your tax dodged money.
    I hope that wasn't aimed personally at me.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    In your scenario, Privy Council basically means the PM.

    Privy Council quorom is HMQ plus 3 Privy Councillors. In my scenario I expect it would be Jacob Rees Mogg (Lord President) and 2 others, probably PM and Secretary of State for Exiting the EU.
    It might be the quorum but what is to stop say another five Privy Councillors turning up to give their advice? Normally notice has to be given of a meeting. Does the Privy Council have "Articles" or a constitution which define these matters?
    Its not that sort of meeting where anyone can turn up. You have to be invited and the government will choose which 3 are invited when they're giving advice.
    So it’s load of old bollox not fit for purpose as is most of the U.K. constitution
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    tpfkar said:

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    nichomar said:

    Fenman said:

    Fenman said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.

    Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.

    He can't. Royal assent
    That's not true. It was denied in 1707.

    Everything is a formality until it isn't.
    It has been a formality for threeyou.
    Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.
    I'm really tired of
    Not if she has any sense. And she has.
    People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.

    HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
    Privy council my arse pull the other one after last week
    Privy Council is constitutionally how HMQ gets her advice from ministers, what do you mean by "my arse pull the other one"?

    If the Privy Council says "don't assent to this" then why would HMQ assent to it?
    In your scenario, Privy Council basically means the PM.
    Privy Council quorom is HMQ plus 3 Privy Councillors. In my scenario I expect it would be Jacob Rees Mogg (Lord President) and 2 others, probably PM and Secretary of State for Exiting the EU.
    It might be the quorum but what is to stop say another five Privy Councillors turning up to give their advice? Normally notice has to be given of a meeting. Does the Privy Council have "Articles" or a constitution which define these matters?
    Do they have to wear uniforms like shorts and suspenders ?
    It's all gender-neutral these days don't you know.
    I am amused by the idea of every living Privy Councillor tipping up, in uniform, to argue it out. They should be armed, and we should televise it.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    In your scenario, Privy Council basically means the PM.

    Privy Council quorom is HMQ plus 3 Privy Councillors. In my scenario I expect it would be Jacob Rees Mogg (Lord President) and 2 others, probably PM and Secretary of State for Exiting the EU.
    It might be the quorum but what is to stop say another five Privy Councillors turning up to give their advice? Normally notice has to be given of a meeting. Does the Privy Council have "Articles" or a constitution which define these matters?
    Its not that sort of meeting where anyone can turn up. You have to be invited and the government will choose which 3 are invited when they're giving advice.
    So it is fixed ! Worse than a cricket match.
  • nichomar said:

    There is an obvious way out for Boris, but it requires cutting NI loose:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/could-boris-johnson-cut-northern-ireland-loose/amp/

    Actually, that's a bit dramatic. It would still be part of the UK but operating under different customs and regulatory rules in certain areas, so more detached. It would allow, though, mainland GB to fully exit the single market and customs union immediately following a transition period. It's also on the table from the EU because it's what they offered in the first place.

    As soon as a GE campaign is called (and parliament dissolved) he could cut the DUP loose in the hope of an overall majority, and make any such deal subject to ratification via a vote in a new NI assembly and an updated GFA.

    Problems would include Scotland wanting similar treatment and it would probably stoke the independence movement there. But it would deliver a 'Deal' that most of his party could accept.

    But apparently that’s anti democratic because NI would have to accept EU rules without representation as they no longer have MEPs
    That's why I think the NI assembly would need to vote and ratify on it.

    It could trigger a border poll in the medium term, but not immediately.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    ab195 said:

    tpfkar said:

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    nichomar said:

    Fenman said:

    Fenman said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.

    Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.

    He can't. Royal assent
    That's not true. It was denied in 1707.

    Everything is a formality until it isn't.
    It has been a formality for threeyou.
    Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.
    I'm really tired of
    Not if she has any sense. And she has.
    People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.

    HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
    Privy council my arse pull the other one after last week
    Privy Council is constitutionally how HMQ gets her advice from ministers, what do you mean by "my arse pull the other one"?

    If the Privy Council says "don't assent to this" then why would HMQ assent to it?
    In your scenario, Privy Council basically means the PM.
    Privy Council quorom is HMQ plus 3 Privy Councillors. In my scenario I expect it would be Jacob Rees Mogg (Lord President) and 2 others, probably PM and Secretary of State for Exiting the EU.
    It might be the quorum but what is to stop say another five Privy Councillors turning up to give their advice? Normally notice has to be given of a meeting. Does the Privy Council have "Articles" or a constitution which define these matters?
    Do they have to wear uniforms like shorts and suspenders ?
    It's all gender-neutral these days don't you know.
    I am amused by the idea of every living Privy Councillor tipping up, in uniform, to argue it out. They should be armed, and we should televise it.
    Fight scene from Anchorman, but with Privy councillors
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    There is an obvious way out for Boris, but it requires cutting NI loose:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/could-boris-johnson-cut-northern-ireland-loose/amp/

    Actually, that's a bit dramatic. It would still be part of the UK but operating under different customs and regulatory rules in certain areas, so more detached. It would allow, though, mainland GB to fully exit the single market and customs union immediately following a transition period. It's also on the table from the EU because it's what they offered in the first place.

    As soon as a GE campaign is called (and parliament dissolved) he could cut the DUP loose in the hope of an overall majority, and make any such deal subject to ratification via a vote in a new NI assembly and an updated GFA.

    Problems would include Scotland wanting similar treatment and it would probably stoke the independence movement there. But it would deliver a 'Deal' that most of his party could accept.

    You mean like the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Falklands etc. Maybe you could even hide your tax dodged money.
    I hope that wasn't aimed personally at me.
    "You" here means like "one".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Sam Coates on Twitter saying Dom Cummings stated he didn't think the act imparted a legal compulsion on Boris or that it was unenforceable so hes canvassing for thoughts from lawyers to see if that's true. I think this will definitely be in the courts before Oct 19

    I get that the point is to prove Brexity credentials, but if Mr Cummings is wrong about his interpretation is it a good look for the Tories to be so focused on arcane points of legal procedure and interpretation?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Drutt said:

    "Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Commission turned round on you — where would you hide, Boris, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast — Benn's laws, not God's — and if you cut them down — and you're just the man to do it — d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Remain campaign benefit of law, for my own safety's sake."

    ~with apologies to Robert Bolt, and probably to Sunil who would have done this better

    Yes I've had that quote floating around my head in recent days.

    As has this one -

    "I'll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions, they're then pickled into a rigid dogma and you go on, sticking to that ... misplaced, irrelevant to the real needs and you end up in the grotesque chaos of a Tory Prime Minister, a Tory Prime Minister, threatening to break the law.

    I'm telling you, no matter how entertaining, how fulfilling for the short-term ego, you can't play politics with people's jobs and people's services."

    With apologies to Neil Kinnock. But pertinent given that the ERG and the BXP are today's Militant Tendency.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    I've had iPads for years, but mine was slowing down, and I've just bought a Samsung S5e Tab, which I'm really enjoying using. Excellent screen, without the Apple Tax.

    If you are looking for an IPad, Amazon have been pricing the basic one in the £250 to 299 range, or try the Apple Refurbished store, as these are often just returns or old stock at a reasonable price.

    https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/refurbished/ipad
    Thank you very much.
    When buying Apple stuff it's always worth checking when things were last updated at https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/ .

    That suggests the iPad is about to be replaced so if you want one of those wait a few weeks otherwise go for the iPad air from Amazon warehouse as it's just been released but it's still not cheap

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B07NHQQ27K/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    kle4 said:

    Sam Coates on Twitter saying Dom Cummings stated he didn't think the act imparted a legal compulsion on Boris or that it was unenforceable so hes canvassing for thoughts from lawyers to see if that's true. I think this will definitely be in the courts before Oct 19

    I get that the point is to prove Brexity credentials, but if Mr Cummings is wrong about his interpretation is it a good look for the Tories to be so focused on arcane points of legal procedure and interpretation?
    If they are European lawyers then they are traitors anybody who consults with European lawyer should be strung up😀
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    nichomar said:

    There is an obvious way out for Boris, but it requires cutting NI loose:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/could-boris-johnson-cut-northern-ireland-loose/amp/

    Actually, that's a bit dramatic. It would still be part of the UK but operating under different customs and regulatory rules in certain areas, so more detached. It would allow, though, mainland GB to fully exit the single market and customs union immediately following a transition period. It's also on the table from the EU because it's what they offered in the first place.

    As soon as a GE campaign is called (and parliament dissolved) he could cut the DUP loose in the hope of an overall majority, and make any such deal subject to ratification via a vote in a new NI assembly and an updated GFA.

    Problems would include Scotland wanting similar treatment and it would probably stoke the independence movement there. But it would deliver a 'Deal' that most of his party could accept.

    But apparently that’s anti democratic because NI would have to accept EU rules without representation as they no longer have MEPs
    That's why I think the NI assembly would need to vote and ratify on it.

    It could trigger a border poll in the medium term, but not immediately.
    Why can't NI be an independent country ? In the EU. It will be subsidized by them. Someone has to do it. That's their birthright.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Still no trace of this Con 40%+ that was predicted.

    I think the problem these polls pose for labour is they are not closing the gap when they are the main opposition. Indeed most polls show them static or dropping slightly and the local election results are appalling

    It is time for labour to recognise the damage Corbyn has created for them. Any sensible labour leader would have stood up against brexit and joined all parties on a stop brexit policy
    With great respect though, a Tory poll lead in the range of 3% - 10% is nowhere near the leads Labour confronted at the outset of the 2017 campaign - indeed Tory poll leads of 3% - 5% did not appear until a week or so before polling day. This data reminds me much more of what we saw in the early stages of the Februsry 1974 election.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    There is an obvious way out for Boris, but it requires cutting NI loose:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/could-boris-johnson-cut-northern-ireland-loose/amp/

    Actually, that's a bit dramatic. It would still be part of the UK but operating under different customs and regulatory rules in certain areas, so more detached. It would allow, though, mainland GB to fully exit the single market and customs union immediately following a transition period. It's also on the table from the EU because it's what they offered in the first place.

    As soon as a GE campaign is called (and parliament dissolved) he could cut the DUP loose in the hope of an overall majority, and make any such deal subject to ratification via a vote in a new NI assembly and an updated GFA.

    Problems would include Scotland wanting similar treatment and it would probably stoke the independence movement there. But it would deliver a 'Deal' that most of his party could accept.

    But apparently that’s anti democratic because NI would have to accept EU rules without representation as they no longer have MEPs
    That's why I think the NI assembly would need to vote and ratify on it.

    It could trigger a border poll in the medium term, but not immediately.
    Why can't NI be an independent country ? In the EU. It will be subsidized by them. Someone has to do it. That's their birthright.
    Much easier to joinROI
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477

    ab195 said:

    tpfkar said:

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    nichomar said:

    Fenman said:

    Fenman said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Boris should deny royal assent to the bill since the opposition have refused an election or VONC.

    Let the opposition VONC him if they want assent given.

    He can't. Royal assent
    That's not true. It was denied in 1707.

    Everything is a formality until it isn't.
    It has been a formality for threeyou.
    Sadly, we are well past this argument, after Bercow overturned several centuries of precedent in how standing orders are treated.
    I'm really tired of
    Not if she has any sense. And she has.
    People were saying HMQ wouldn't approve prorogation and she did it unquestioningly.

    HMQ has always taken her ministers advise. If the privy council says to refuse assent then how and why would she approve it?
    Privy council my arse pull the other one after last week
    Privy Council is constitutionally how HMQ gets her advice from ministers, what do you mean by "my arse pull the other one"?

    If the Privy Council says "don't assent to this" then why would HMQ assent to it?
    In your scenario, Privy Council basically means the PM.
    Privy Council quorom is HMQ plus 3 Privy Councillors. In my scenario I expect it would be Jacob Rees Mogg (Lord President) and 2 others, probably PM and Secretary of State for Exiting the EU.
    It might be the quorum but what is to stop say another five Privy Councillors turning up to give their advice? Normally notice has to be given of a meeting. Does the Privy Council have "Articles" or a constitution which define these matters?
    Do they have to wear uniforms like shorts and suspenders ?
    It's all gender-neutral these days don't you know.
    I am amused by the idea of every living Privy Councillor tipping up, in uniform, to argue it out. They should be armed, and we should televise it.
    Fight scene from Anchorman, but with Privy councillors
    I’m now quite drawn to the idea. I reckon Tebbit and Prescott would emerge victorious from the melee.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    I've had iPads for years, but mine was slowing down, and I've just bought a Samsung S5e Tab, which I'm really enjoying using. Excellent screen, without the Apple Tax.

    If you are looking for an IPad, Amazon have been pricing the basic one in the £250 to 299 range, or try the Apple Refurbished store, as these are often just returns or old stock at a reasonable price.

    https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/refurbished/ipad
    Thank you very much.
    When buying Apple stuff it's always worth checking when things were last updated at https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/ .

    That suggests the iPad is about to be replaced so if you want one of those wait a few weeks otherwise go for the iPad air from Amazon warehouse as it's just been released but it's still not cheap

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B07NHQQ27K/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

    Also it's worth looking at ebay as they often offer 10% off electrical items they were doing that on Thursday / Friday for sellers including Currys.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Echo chamber isn't its usual Borg-like self tonight.

    Looks like they realise what i've been saying all along is true.

    Get yourself out and about with normal decent people and gauge the true anger at what remainer MPs are doing to our democracy.

    What does this even mean?

    Are you suggesting that we are not normal, decent people?

    I work in manufacturing in County Durham. I interact on a daily basis with people you think seem to despise the ‘metropolitan liberal elite’.

    Get your head out of your arse.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Changes with May.

    Only a 3 point lead over Labour. Oosh.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1170373770487500800?s=21

    That is some turn round
    It was in the 40s earlier in the year.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    I’m an Apple fanboy so feel free to ignore but the normal ‘iPad’ not the Pro or the Air is due to be upgraded within the next few weeks and is exceptional value for money. I do recommend that.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    AndyJS said:

    Everyone has politicians they simply don't like, often for irrational reasons. For me, it's Hilary Benn and Keir Starmer. It's funny/odd in a way, because I've always been a big fan of Tony Benn. I like reading his diaries very much.

    There are some that really do get on your nerves...Ed Balls and Portillo...spring to mind, but you later find yourself liking when you see them in a different light.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Genuinely thought she already had.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    kle4 said:

    Genuinely thought she already had.
    Amber Rudd? :D
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    I've had iPads for years, but mine was slowing down, and I've just bought a Samsung S5e Tab, which I'm really enjoying using. Excellent screen, without the Apple Tax.

    If you are looking for an IPad, Amazon have been pricing the basic one in the £250 to 299 range, or try the Apple Refurbished store, as these are often just returns or old stock at a reasonable price.

    https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/refurbished/ipad
    Thank you very much.
    When buying Apple stuff it's always worth checking when things were last updated at https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/ .

    That suggests the iPad is about to be replaced so if you want one of those wait a few weeks otherwise go for the iPad air from Amazon warehouse as it's just been released but it's still not cheap

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B07NHQQ27K/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

    Thank you. I'm not that fussed about it being Apple. I have a Mac which I like. I'm used to it but it's not a deal breaker. I use my iPad when not at my desk and when out and about. But if there's another tablet that does the same stuff and can sync with my phone (also Samsung) and my Mac, will be happy.

    Apple are rather dear. My iPad was a 10-year anniversary present from my employer so looking at the prices now is a bit of a revelation, TBH.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    I’m an Apple fanboy so feel free to ignore but the normal ‘iPad’ not the Pro or the Air is due to be upgraded within the next few weeks and is exceptional value for money. I do recommend that.
    Thank you.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    GIN1138 said:

    Sorry to see John Mann leaving the Commons.
    His seat will be a top Tory target anyway - he was toast.
    Labour would hold Bassetlaw even on the Opinium figures.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited September 2019
    I’ll leave you with a few points
    We don’t know when the next election will take place
    We don’t really know the battle ground on which it will be fought
    I doubt if we even know who the key players will be
    And nobody knows what will happen tomorrow

    I’ll leave you with what I thought was yesterday’s best post para phrased, I’m afraid, from sandy rentoul ‘the U.K. are sending Prince Andrew to Mugabes funeral as a mark of respect of how high we hold him’
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    edited September 2019
    kle4 said:

    Changes with May.

    Only a 3 point lead over Labour. Oosh.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1170373770487500800?s=21

    That is some turn round
    It was in the 40s earlier in the year.
    Still a couple more polls to go and then let us see the trend

    However, after the dreadful week Boris has had ( and I resigned) where are the signs of Corbyn and labour benefitting. None so far
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    AndyJS said:

    Everyone has politicians they simply don't like, often for irrational reasons. For me, it's Hilary Benn and Keir Starmer. It's funny/odd in a way, because I've always been a big fan of Tony Benn. I like reading his diaries very much.

    Like Tyson it was Ed Balls for me.
  • kle4 said:

    Sam Coates on Twitter saying Dom Cummings stated he didn't think the act imparted a legal compulsion on Boris or that it was unenforceable so hes canvassing for thoughts from lawyers to see if that's true. I think this will definitely be in the courts before Oct 19

    I get that the point is to prove Brexity credentials, but if Mr Cummings is wrong about his interpretation is it a good look for the Tories to be so focused on arcane points of legal procedure and interpretation?
    Everyone is focused on arcane points of legal procedure and interpretation.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Echo chamber isn't its usual Borg-like self tonight.

    Looks like they realise what i've been saying all along is true.

    Get yourself out and about with normal decent people and gauge the true anger at what remainer MPs are doing to our democracy.

    What does this even mean?

    Are you suggesting that we are not normal, decent people?

    I work in manufacturing in County Durham. I interact on a daily basis with people you think seem to despise the ‘metropolitan liberal elite’.

    Get your head out of your arse.

    Well said. It seems to be a revelation to some of the more ardent Boris fans on here that it is possible to be pretty pissed off at the way MPs have behaved over the last three years (and to want them to agree to an orderly withdrawal from the EU) and also be pretty cross at the idea of a Prime Minister deliberately breaking the law. But MPs' failure to come to a decision does not justify the latter.

    A PM who deliberately sets out to break the law is crossing a Rubicon. If we cannot expect our legislators to understand that they are subject to the law then we are heading for very dangerous waters. Those who cheer on Boris and others in his contempt for the law should be ashamed of themselves.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited September 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    Echo chamber isn't its usual Borg-like self tonight.

    Looks like they realise what i've been saying all along is true.

    Get yourself out and about with normal decent people and gauge the true anger at what remainer MPs are doing to our democracy.

    What does this even mean?

    Are you suggesting that we are not normal, decent people?

    I work in manufacturing in County Durham. I interact on a daily basis with people you think seem to despise the ‘metropolitan liberal elite’.

    Get your head out of your arse.

    But MPs' failure to come to a decision does not justify [breaking the law]

    A PM who deliberately sets out to break the law is crossing a Rubicon. If we cannot expect our legislators to understand that they are subject to the law then we are heading for very dangerous waters.
    Very much agree with this. We're taught as children that two wrongs don't make a right, never even mind issues of proportion between the wrongs in this case, yet for the sake of political gamesmanship following the law is being treated as some incidental thing we can do without if we don't like what others are doing.
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    All these independents and the LibDems must be a little bit tempted to formally ally in the House and freeze out the SNO from 3rd party status. Though I guess with an impending election, one way or another, it’s a bit less tempting.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    I’m an Apple fanboy so feel free to ignore but the normal ‘iPad’ not the Pro or the Air is due to be upgraded within the next few weeks and is exceptional value for money. I do recommend that.
    When I was a New York earlier I bought top of the range iPhones, and Pro MacBooks and iPads to replace all our old kit...spent a county fortune...

    I gave away my 5 year old Mac and wish I hadn't. I have gone back to using my old lightweight phone 6 and fished out my 4 year old Mini iPad....

    So...my advice would be to shop on Amazon for some 2/3 year old models
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    kle4 said:

    Sam Coates on Twitter saying Dom Cummings stated he didn't think the act imparted a legal compulsion on Boris or that it was unenforceable so hes canvassing for thoughts from lawyers to see if that's true. I think this will definitely be in the courts before Oct 19

    I get that the point is to prove Brexity credentials, but if Mr Cummings is wrong about his interpretation is it a good look for the Tories to be so focused on arcane points of legal procedure and interpretation?
    Everyone is focused on arcane points of legal procedure and interpretation.
    There is nothing arcane about expecting our Prime Minister to comply with the law. It is the very basis of a free country under the rule of law.

    That we cannot - apparently - expect that because some advisor with no legal training thinks otherwise is not something to be cheered.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited September 2019

    kle4 said:

    Sam Coates on Twitter saying Dom Cummings stated he didn't think the act imparted a legal compulsion on Boris or that it was unenforceable so hes canvassing for thoughts from lawyers to see if that's true. I think this will definitely be in the courts before Oct 19

    I get that the point is to prove Brexity credentials, but if Mr Cummings is wrong about his interpretation is it a good look for the Tories to be so focused on arcane points of legal procedure and interpretation?
    Everyone is focused on arcane points of legal procedure and interpretation.
    Yes (on other subjects), but the Tories are shouting loudest about it at present. And I don't think it is a good look for the other side either, I think there's far too much scrabbling around, hoping procedure can put off a decision or the courts can take away the need for MPs to make a drastic choice (eg VONC). It's cowardly.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Echo chamber isn't its usual Borg-like self tonight.

    Looks like they realise what i've been saying all along is true.

    Get yourself out and about with normal decent people and gauge the true anger at what remainer MPs are doing to our democracy.

    What does this even mean?

    Are you suggesting that we are not normal, decent people?

    I work in manufacturing in County Durham. I interact on a daily basis with people you think seem to despise the ‘metropolitan liberal elite’.

    Get your head out of your arse.

    But MPs' failure to come to a decision does not justify [breaking the law]

    A PM who deliberately sets out to break the law is crossing a Rubicon. If we cannot expect our legislators to understand that they are subject to the law then we are heading for very dangerous waters.
    Very much agree with this. We're taught as children that two wrongs don't make a right, never even mind issues of proportion between the wrongs in this case, yet for the sake of political gamesmanship following the law is being treated as some incidental thing we can do without if we don't like what others are doing.
    Some of the Boris fans ought to speak to people who have lived in countries where "following the law is being treated as some incidental thing we can do without" and see what that means in practice.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    nichomar said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    “The Conservatives are up 3 points to 35% of the vote, while the Brexit party is down 3 points to 13%. The Liberal Democrats are up 2 points to 17% while Labour is down 1 point to 25%.”

    Electoral Calculus gives a Tory landslide and a Tory majority of 104 with this evening's Opinium.

    Tories 377
    Labour 184
    LDs 32

    Biggest Tory win since Thatcher for Boris if true

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=17&Brexit=14&Green=3&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
    But those figures are nonsense in terms of UNS! Opinium implies 30 Tory gains from Labour offset by 13 losses to the LDs and circa 10 losses to SNP. That would take them to 324 seats - a bare effective majority still on cusp of needing DUP support.
    You choose the model you want to get the answer you want no flavible projections yet
    UNS has been the traditional method used when interpreting polling data. It is far from perfect, but I believe it to be more reliable than Baxter's tables.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    tyson said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    I’m an Apple fanboy so feel free to ignore but the normal ‘iPad’ not the Pro or the Air is due to be upgraded within the next few weeks and is exceptional value for money. I do recommend that.
    When I was a New York earlier I bought top of the range iPhones, and Pro MacBooks and iPads to replace all our old kit...spent a county fortune...

    I gave away my 5 year old Mac and wish I hadn't. I have gone back to using my old lightweight phone 6 and fished out my 4 year old Mini iPad....

    So...my advice would be to shop on Amazon for some 2/3 year old models
    What didn’t you like? I’ve just bought an iPad Pro 11” for when I go back to University and it’s fantastic.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited September 2019
    "The crisis engulfing Johnson and his government, which saw the prime minister’s brother Jo resign from the cabinet on Thursday after 21 Tory MPs were stripped of the whip, deepened further last night when the most senior MP, Kenneth Clarke, said he was thinking about voting for the Liberal Democrats at the next election and regarded a Jeremy Corbyn government as less damaging to the UK than a no-deal Brexit.

    In his first newspaper interview since being stripped of the whip after almost 60 years in the Conservative party, the father of the house told the Observer that if he were starting out on his political career now, he would not choose the Tories. “If I was 20 years old and thinking which political party I was going to join … I would not join the Conservative party. I would not follow Boris Johnson in this wild, rightwing nationalist stuff,” he said."

  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    tyson said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    I’m an Apple fanboy so feel free to ignore but the normal ‘iPad’ not the Pro or the Air is due to be upgraded within the next few weeks and is exceptional value for money. I do recommend that.
    When I was a New York earlier I bought top of the range iPhones, and Pro MacBooks and iPads to replace all our old kit...spent a county fortune...

    I gave away my 5 year old Mac and wish I hadn't. I have gone back to using my old lightweight phone 6 and fished out my 4 year old Mini iPad....

    So...my advice would be to shop on Amazon for some 2/3 year old models
    What didn’t you like? I’ve just bought an iPad Pro 11” for when I go back to University and it’s fantastic.
    The new Macbook pro is crap. I've broken two keyboards already and it's a dongle-fest - forget or lose yours and you can't plug in a memory stick, a monitor, use wired internet etc. Piss poor design.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    edited September 2019

    kle4 said:

    Genuinely thought she already had.
    Amber Rudd? :D
    Never. She likes her ministerial car.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Cyclefree said:

    Echo chamber isn't its usual Borg-like self tonight.

    Looks like they realise what i've been saying all along is true.

    Get yourself out and about with normal decent people and gauge the true anger at what remainer MPs are doing to our democracy.

    What does this even mean?

    Are you suggesting that we are not normal, decent people?

    I work in manufacturing in County Durham. I interact on a daily basis with people you think seem to despise the ‘metropolitan liberal elite’.

    Get your head out of your arse.

    Well said. It seems to be a revelation to some of the more ardent Boris fans on here that it is possible to be pretty pissed off at the way MPs have behaved over the last three years (and to want them to agree to an orderly withdrawal from the EU) and also be pretty cross at the idea of a Prime Minister deliberately breaking the law. But MPs' failure to come to a decision does not justify the latter.

    A PM who deliberately sets out to break the law is crossing a Rubicon. If we cannot expect our legislators to understand that they are subject to the law then we are heading for very dangerous waters. Those who cheer on Boris and others in his contempt for the law should be ashamed of themselves.
    Sadly contempt for the law is one of the casualties to expect when MPs fail to respect the 2016 result and indeed fail to respect their own commitments when they voted for Article 50. I voted to Remain but the implication from many on here that all the evil lies on one side while all the good is on the other is pretty vomit inducing.
    Also there is as yet no clear evidence that the PM is actually planning to disobey the law. As so often people jump in on the basis of rumour and prejudice.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Drutt said:

    "Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Commission turned round on you — where would you hide, Boris, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast — Benn's laws, not God's — and if you cut them down — and you're just the man to do it — d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Remain campaign benefit of law, for my own safety's sake."

    ~with apologies to Robert Bolt, and probably to Sunil who would have done this better

    Yes I've had that quote floating around my head in recent days.

    As has this one -

    "I'll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions, they're then pickled into a rigid dogma and you go on, sticking to that ... misplaced, irrelevant to the real needs and you end up in the grotesque chaos of a Tory Prime Minister, a Tory Prime Minister, threatening to break the law.

    I'm telling you, no matter how entertaining, how fulfilling for the short-term ego, you can't play politics with people's jobs and people's services."

    With apologies to Neil Kinnock. But pertinent given that the ERG and the BXP are today's Militant Tendency.
    The difference is that the Militant Tendency didn't actually take over the Labour party. UKIP/Bxt Party have taken over the Tory party and control the UK government.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Sorry to see John Mann leaving the Commons.
    Is he stepping down next election or taking the Chiltern Hundreds?
    If he is taking up a Government job, he is automatically disqualified as an MP.
    A shame that John is leaving Parliament. I ran across him politically many years ago and liked his droll sense of humour, which doesn't come across in his somewhat austere public persona. Also a good guy who always works hard for the people who voted him in.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    kyf_100 said:

    tyson said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    I’m an Apple fanboy so feel free to ignore but the normal ‘iPad’ not the Pro or the Air is due to be upgraded within the next few weeks and is exceptional value for money. I do recommend that.
    When I was a New York earlier I bought top of the range iPhones, and Pro MacBooks and iPads to replace all our old kit...spent a county fortune...

    I gave away my 5 year old Mac and wish I hadn't. I have gone back to using my old lightweight phone 6 and fished out my 4 year old Mini iPad....

    So...my advice would be to shop on Amazon for some 2/3 year old models
    What didn’t you like? I’ve just bought an iPad Pro 11” for when I go back to University and it’s fantastic.
    The new Macbook pro is crap. I've broken two keyboards already and it's a dongle-fest - forget or lose yours and you can't plug in a memory stick, a monitor, use wired internet etc. Piss poor design.
    I have heard a lot of bad things about the keyboards.

    However wired internet and memory sticks are fringe use-cases these days!
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    edited September 2019

    tyson said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    I’m an Apple fanboy so feel free to ignore but the normal ‘iPad’ not the Pro or the Air is due to be upgraded within the next few weeks and is exceptional value for money. I do recommend that.
    When I was a New York earlier I bought top of the range iPhones, and Pro MacBooks and iPads to replace all our old kit...spent a county fortune...

    I gave away my 5 year old Mac and wish I hadn't. I have gone back to using my old lightweight phone 6 and fished out my 4 year old Mini iPad....

    So...my advice would be to shop on Amazon for some 2/3 year old models
    What didn’t you like? I’ve just bought an iPad Pro 11” for when I go back to University and it’s fantastic.
    They were too heavy...and the keyboard on the Mac is annoying..I keep on making typos...

    Technology wise I am a bit on the backward side mind...

    I'm still driving my Megane which is now 14 years old, and by a country mile the worst car either on my road, or at my workplace carpark...
  • Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Sam Coates on Twitter saying Dom Cummings stated he didn't think the act imparted a legal compulsion on Boris or that it was unenforceable so hes canvassing for thoughts from lawyers to see if that's true. I think this will definitely be in the courts before Oct 19

    I get that the point is to prove Brexity credentials, but if Mr Cummings is wrong about his interpretation is it a good look for the Tories to be so focused on arcane points of legal procedure and interpretation?
    Everyone is focused on arcane points of legal procedure and interpretation.
    There is nothing arcane about expecting our Prime Minister to comply with the law. It is the very basis of a free country under the rule of law.

    That we cannot - apparently - expect that because some advisor with no legal training thinks otherwise is not something to be cheered.
    I don't understand on what basis Cummings has a different interpretation of the law, it seems pretty watertight to me, but if lawyers have different interpretations of the law is the latter not entitled to take it to court if they so desire?

    That is also part of a free country under the rule of law too. That is what courts are for. But I think its moot, if there is a loophole in the law Parliament will have the numbers to close it anyway.

    The right place to settle this is the ballot box and it is a constitutional mess to expect a PM to implement a law he vehemently opposes that has been forced by the opposition. The opposition should become the government if they have the numbers and put the law through themselves.

    That's why I think the cleanest and simplest solution is not to break the law, it is to veto the law and have the Commons VONC and put a new government in if they have the numbers to do so. Then the government implementing the law will be one that actually believes in it.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    edited September 2019

    "The crisis engulfing Johnson and his government, which saw the prime minister’s brother Jo resign from the cabinet on Thursday after 21 Tory MPs were stripped of the whip, deepened further last night when the most senior MP, Kenneth Clarke, said he was thinking about voting for the Liberal Democrats at the next election and regarded a Jeremy Corbyn government as less damaging to the UK than a no-deal Brexit.

    In his first newspaper interview since being stripped of the whip after almost 60 years in the Conservative party, the father of the house told the Observer that if he were starting out on his political career now, he would not choose the Tories. “If I was 20 years old and thinking which political party I was going to join … I would not join the Conservative party. I would not follow Boris Johnson in this wild, rightwing nationalist stuff,” he said."

    Sorry, how is that the crisis "deepening"? Clarke has been cast out, he no longer has the Tory whip, if he wants to vote for Corbyn or Swinson that's completely up to him. Of course he wouldn't fit in today's Tory party - that's why he's no longer representing it. He is a Europhile wet, of course he would feel at home in the Lib Dems.
  • Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Echo chamber isn't its usual Borg-like self tonight.

    Looks like they realise what i've been saying all along is true.

    Get yourself out and about with normal decent people and gauge the true anger at what remainer MPs are doing to our democracy.

    What does this even mean?

    Are you suggesting that we are not normal, decent people?

    I work in manufacturing in County Durham. I interact on a daily basis with people you think seem to despise the ‘metropolitan liberal elite’.

    Get your head out of your arse.

    But MPs' failure to come to a decision does not justify [breaking the law]

    A PM who deliberately sets out to break the law is crossing a Rubicon. If we cannot expect our legislators to understand that they are subject to the law then we are heading for very dangerous waters.
    Very much agree with this. We're taught as children that two wrongs don't make a right, never even mind issues of proportion between the wrongs in this case, yet for the sake of political gamesmanship following the law is being treated as some incidental thing we can do without if we don't like what others are doing.
    Some of the Boris fans ought to speak to people who have lived in countries where "following the law is being treated as some incidental thing we can do without" and see what that means in practice.
    I have never advocated breaking the law.

    Though noteworthy that many historical luminaries like Gandhi did when they were seeking independence especially.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, a question for the PB Brains Trust.

    What is the best reasonably priced tablet around. My iPad is now nearly 6 years old and becoming unreliable.

    I use it for reading/watching stuff etc and checking up on my personal and work emails.

    Should I go for another Apple product or some other brand?

    And if so which?

    Thanks in advance. VM me if necessary.

    I’m an Apple fanboy so feel free to ignore but the normal ‘iPad’ not the Pro or the Air is due to be upgraded within the next few weeks and is exceptional value for money. I do recommend that.
    When I was a New York earlier I bought top of the range iPhones, and Pro MacBooks and iPads to replace all our old kit...spent a county fortune...

    I gave away my 5 year old Mac and wish I hadn't. I have gone back to using my old lightweight phone 6 and fished out my 4 year old Mini iPad....

    So...my advice would be to shop on Amazon for some 2/3 year old models
    What didn’t you like? I’ve just bought an iPad Pro 11” for when I go back to University and it’s fantastic.
    They were too heavy...and the keyboard on the Mac is annoying..I keep on making typos...

    Technology wise I am a bit on the backward side mind...

    I'm still driving my Megane which is now 14 years old, and by a country mile the worst car either on my road, or at my workplace carpark...
    Welcome to my world. My 15 year old Ford Fiesta is still going strong!
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Sam Coates on Twitter saying Dom Cummings stated he didn't think the act imparted a legal compulsion on Boris or that it was unenforceable so hes canvassing for thoughts from lawyers to see if that's true. I think this will definitely be in the courts before Oct 19

    I get that the point is to prove Brexity credentials, but if Mr Cummings is wrong about his interpretation is it a good look for the Tories to be so focused on arcane points of legal procedure and interpretation?
    Everyone is focused on arcane points of legal procedure and interpretation.
    There is nothing arcane about expecting our Prime Minister to comply with the law. It is the very basis of a free country under the rule of law.

    That we cannot - apparently - expect that because some advisor with no legal training thinks otherwise is not something to be cheered.
    I don't understand on what basis Cummings has a different interpretation of the law, it seems pretty watertight to me, but if lawyers have different interpretations of the law is the latter not entitled to take it to court if they so desire?

    That is also part of a free country under the rule of law too. That is what courts are for. But I think its moot, if there is a loophole in the law Parliament will have the numbers to close it anyway.

    The right place to settle this is the ballot box and it is a constitutional mess to expect a PM to implement a law he vehemently opposes that has been forced by the opposition. The opposition should become the government if they have the numbers and put the law through themselves.

    That's why I think the cleanest and simplest solution is not to break the law, it is to veto the law and have the Commons VONC and put a new government in if they have the numbers to do so. Then the government implementing the law will be one that actually believes in it.
    Good post Philip...
  • Cyclefree said:

    Echo chamber isn't its usual Borg-like self tonight.

    Looks like they realise what i've been saying all along is true.

    Get yourself out and about with normal decent people and gauge the true anger at what remainer MPs are doing to our democracy.

    What does this even mean?

    Are you suggesting that we are not normal, decent people?

    I work in manufacturing in County Durham. I interact on a daily basis with people you think seem to despise the ‘metropolitan liberal elite’.

    Get your head out of your arse.

    Well said. It seems to be a revelation to some of the more ardent Boris fans on here that it is possible to be pretty pissed off at the way MPs have behaved over the last three years (and to want them to agree to an orderly withdrawal from the EU) and also be pretty cross at the idea of a Prime Minister deliberately breaking the law. But MPs' failure to come to a decision does not justify the latter.

    A PM who deliberately sets out to break the law is crossing a Rubicon. If we cannot expect our legislators to understand that they are subject to the law then we are heading for very dangerous waters. Those who cheer on Boris and others in his contempt for the law should be ashamed of themselves.
    Hear hear.
This discussion has been closed.