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As joyful as those happy to see the back of Gauke and Clarke and the rest are, I hope they are aware they are displaying the exact same sentiments as Corbynistas. Which is fine, be a Borista to their Corbynista, but it is eerily similar in style.
Good night all.0 -
Indeed. I'm amazed Labour have been so stupid as to fall into Boris's trap, which basically had a glowing neon sign with an arrow pointing at it saying in block capitals "TRAP HERE".MaxPB said:
Well all they will hear tonight and tomorrow (and the next few days) is that Boris wanted to have an election and Labour denied the people a say. As you rightly point out, the detail of whatever no deal blocking stuff will get lost in the small print. The headlines are "Labour vote down election". It's going to play very badly IMO.The_Taxman said:
After speaking to someone I know, they ventured their opinion on Brexit. They still don't understand why the 2016 vote did not mean we instantly left the EU! I tried explaining it is a bit more complicated than that but did not want to cause offence by outlining how things work or do not work. By the same token, the average person probably does not understand the FTPA and why Boris cannot have an election, so far. People think what they want to think and the sheer level of ignorance on democratic institutions and the processes involved seem to pass many citizens.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.0 -
Meaningless you may say, but the polls are the main reason Boris felt emboldened to go down this path, and why Labour refused an election they have demanded for so long. So they definitely have impact.Anabobazina said:
They are utterly meaningless at this stage.AndyJS said:Some new opinion polls are needed.
Fog of war.0 -
I don't think going into another election promising more austerity would be a winner, but I also don't see how we can outbid Labour on spending.Gallowgate said:
Meanwhile Labour will be shaking that mighty magic money tree within an inch of its life. It was very thoughtful for Javid to plant it for McDonnell today.MaxPB said:
I'm not so sure on that. Labour having to be dragged into an election will be brought up at every available opportunity.Benpointer said:
By the time we're into an election campaign, Labour will not have turned down the election offer.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.
Today's vote will be yesterday's fish and chip paper.0 -
This is magnificent ...
https://twitter.com/alex_negueruela/status/1169265030287810561?s=210 -
Re. Thread Header - It's kind of hard for Boris to get elected when the Opposition is running for the hills in absolute terror at the first sign of an election.
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Those are the headlines in the tory press and right wing websites. There are opposite headlines out there talking about Boris being a loser and his a govt divided and a shambles.MaxPB said:
Well all they will hear tonight and tomorrow (and the next few days) is that Boris wanted to have an election and Labour denied the people a say. As you rightly point out, the detail of whatever no deal blocking stuff will get lost in the small print. The headlines are "Labour vote down election". It's going to play very badly IMO.The_Taxman said:
After speaking to someone I know, they ventured their opinion on Brexit. They still don't understand why the 2016 vote did not mean we instantly left the EU! I tried explaining it is a bit more complicated than that but did not want to cause offence by outlining how things work or do not work. By the same token, the average person probably does not understand the FTPA and why Boris cannot have an election, so far. People think what they want to think and the sheer level of ignorance on democratic institutions and the processes involved seem to pass many citizens.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.0 -
Manor Farm, card game. You know the quote.kle4 said:As joyful as those happy to see the back of Gauke and Clarke and the rest are, I hope they are aware they are displaying the exact same sentiments as Corbynistas. Which is fine, be a Borista to their Corbynista, but it is eerily similar in style.
Good night all.0 -
Being inflexible was his USP and his edge against Hunt in the leadership campaign. As we all predicted at the time, he is prisoner to the means he used to get the job. In truth dating back to 2016.glw said:
Richard Nabavi was one of the first to point out the sheer political stupidity of the 31st October deadline. Although that was more in the context of the clock running out whilst a new deal is being negotiated, rather than BoJo's self-inflicted wounds. If Boris has been just a little bit flexible with the date of exit, even something like "early 2020" would have done, he could have avoided this mess.Scott_P said:BoZo is on the hook, and squirming like mad...
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/11693568491850055681 -
So does this wheeze for defeating the Tory filibuster secretly come from Dominic Cummings, so that the Benn bill passes, and the opposition parties will agree an election?eek said:0 -
Jezza has had a good week. He may be a fairly dim anti-semite, but unlike Boris he seems to be getting good advice.SouthamObserver said:
Without an election before 31st October Johnson’s entire strategy is in shreds. Tonight he is entirely dependent on the stupidity of Jeremy Corbyn. So the chances are he’ll be fine.Scott_P said:BoZo is on the hook, and squirming like mad...
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/11693568491850055680 -
BXP soared in the polls when the extension occurred, he wanted to avoid that possibility. Even though it immediately meant his own policy of negotiation and deal, requiring legislation, was undercut by not having time.glw said:
Richard Nabavi was one of the first to point out the sheer political stupidity of the 31st October deadline. Although that was more in the context of the clock running out whilst a new deal is being negotiated, rather than BoJo's self-inflicted wounds. If Boris has been just a little bit flexible with the date of exit, even something like "early 2020" would have done, he could have avoided this mess.Scott_P said:BoZo is on the hook, and squirming like mad...
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/11693568491850055680 -
I would heartily recommend the guided tour of the upper parts of St Magnus. As long as you are ok with steep spiral staircases.Carnyx said:
Now, now. Try St Magnus (Kirkwall).Byronic said:
Scotland has cathedrals?? How? Are they made out of piled turf, or something?StuartDickson said:
LaonByronic said:
Shall we have a favorite cathedrals game? OOOOH PLEASETabman said:
Ooops. My bad. It's been a while since I last saw the inside. But it's nice to be able to agree with Sean@ByronicByronic said:
Canterbury! Beautiful. The great reliquary of Englishness.Benpointer said:
Perpendicular gothic - unsatisfactory engineering? That's a bit unfair.StuartDickson said:
I suspected as much. All flamboyant, drooping appendage, with unsatisfactory engineering.Byronic said:
The Perpendicular.StuartDickson said:
Ta.Byronic said:
You have the most fantastically baroque and elaborate inferiority complex I have ever encountered. Congrats.StuartDickson said:
Idiot.Casino_Royale said:Angus MacNeil has a fantastic accent.
A Scottish one that sounds Welsh.
He’s a Gael.
What are the roots of your late gothic superiority complex?
Tho the apogee of the style is surely King’s, Cambridge. Architecture so sublime, vaulting so delicate, it turns into a kind of.... mist.
https://images.app.goo.gl/5gBsFqvAZUSiR2sP7
My top ten, in no obvious order
Durham
Salisbury
Kilfenora (mad!)
Burgos
St Basil’s
Amalfi
Hagia Sophia
Laon
St Peters (is it a cathedral?)
Hallgrimskirka
Senlis
Soissins
Beauvais
Amiens
Chartres
Brechin
Dunblane
St Andrews
Fortrose
I need to Google this. Weird!
Good grief, I believe that is the first non-political sentence I have written all day.
Bed now. More practical politics tomorrow.0 -
It will be Labour vote down election after surrendering to the EU. It's an easy refrain for the Tories to exploit and one that will resonate with a public that's increasingly sick of parliament's messing about with Brexit.MaxPB said:
Well all they will hear tonight and tomorrow (and the next few days) is that Boris wanted to have an election and Labour denied the people a say. As you rightly point out, the detail of whatever no deal blocking stuff will get lost in the small print. The headlines are "Labour vote down election". It's going to play very badly IMO.The_Taxman said:
After speaking to someone I know, they ventured their opinion on Brexit. They still don't understand why the 2016 vote did not mean we instantly left the EU! I tried explaining it is a bit more complicated than that but did not want to cause offence by outlining how things work or do not work. By the same token, the average person probably does not understand the FTPA and why Boris cannot have an election, so far. People think what they want to think and the sheer level of ignorance on democratic institutions and the processes involved seem to pass many citizens.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.0 -
Have you rejoined the party?Philip_Thompson said:
Goodbye Gauke!Gallowgate said:0 -
If Corbyn goes for an election then the PLP will fall into line behind him, despite the misgivings of the centre-Left faction who want to force Johnson to apply for the extension first.Wulfrun_Phil said:
So, if Corbyn is content for Labour to vote for a GE once the bill outlawing no deal has received Royal Assent, he needs to whip together 136 Labour MPs to get a GE over the line by the 2/3rds route, or less if the SNP etc share his view. That seems do-able.AndyJS said:Ayes 298
Noes 56
My best guess remains that Corbyn wants to get the dissolution sorted out before we get to prorogation, so that party conference season is cancelled and the heavily pro-EU majority within Labour can't argue the toss with him over Remain. The Labour leadership has clearly decided that constructive ambiguity (unicorn renegotiation, then second referendum in which it might back either its own Deal or Remain, depending what it feels like at the time) is the best way to try to hold together as much of the Labour vote as possible.0 -
Great headlines for the Government tonight, Corbyn blocks Brexit and the Government ends austerity and increases spending on the NHS and police etc.
What a constrast to GE17 when Corbyn promised to back Brexit and could attack May's Government over continued austerity2 -
If a simple majority bill for an election on 15 Oct passes the Commons [perhaps with Tory+SNP support] are the Lords capable of voting on that without the filibuster on Benn failing?0
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The World (Trade Organisation) Is Not Enoughwilliamglenn said:
Boris Johnson is more like ‘My, another May!’MarqueeMark said:
But he still gets to Die Another Day......Scott_P said:1 -
I think you mean tomorrow's!Benpointer said:
By the time we're into an election campaign, Labour will not have turned down the election offer.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.
Today's vote will be yesterday's fish and chip paper.0 -
It's sad for them but being an MP is not a job for life. Too many still treat parliament like a cosy gentleman's club.kle4 said:As joyful as those happy to see the back of Gauke and Clarke and the rest are, I hope they are aware they are displaying the exact same sentiments as Corbynistas. Which is fine, be a Borista to their Corbynista, but it is eerily similar in style.
Good night all.
In the private sector it happens all the time that a new CEO comes in and some of the existing managers move on.
Ultimately, the voters need to know they will get what they vote for:
If they give Boris a majority, he can deliver on no deal. Ditto with Corbyn and his agenda.
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I actually have no idea.Noo said:
Manor Farm, card game. You know the quote.kle4 said:As joyful as those happy to see the back of Gauke and Clarke and the rest are, I hope they are aware they are displaying the exact same sentiments as Corbynistas. Which is fine, be a Borista to their Corbynista, but it is eerily similar in style.
Good night all.0 -
In spirit, not formally yet.TOPPING said:
Have you rejoined the party?Philip_Thompson said:
Goodbye Gauke!Gallowgate said:0 -
Defeat your enemy by defeating yourself. "Genius."kle4 said:
BXP soared in the polls when the extension occurred, he wanted to avoid that possibility. Even though it immediately meant his own policy of negotiation and deal, requiring legislation, was undercut by not having time.glw said:
Richard Nabavi was one of the first to point out the sheer political stupidity of the 31st October deadline. Although that was more in the context of the clock running out whilst a new deal is being negotiated, rather than BoJo's self-inflicted wounds. If Boris has been just a little bit flexible with the date of exit, even something like "early 2020" would have done, he could have avoided this mess.Scott_P said:BoZo is on the hook, and squirming like mad...
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/11693568491850055680 -
I have to say Stuart's list of Scottish cathedrals is idiosyncratic, missing out Kirkwall and Glasgow. Also St Andrews Cathedral is, patchy.Carnyx said:
Now, now. Try St Magnus (Kirkwall).Byronic said:
Scotland has cathedrals?? How? Are they made out of piled turf, or something?StuartDickson said:
LaonByronic said:
Shall we have a favorite cathedrals game? OOOOH PLEASETabman said:
Ooops. My bad. It's been a while since I last saw the inside. But it's nice to be able to agree with Sean@ByronicByronic said:
Canterbury! Beautiful. The great reliquary of Englishness.Benpointer said:
Perpendicular gothic - unsatisfactory engineering? That's a bit unfair.StuartDickson said:
I suspected as much. All flamboyant, drooping appendage, with unsatisfactory engineering.Byronic said:
The Perpendicular.StuartDickson said:
Ta.Byronic said:
You have the most fantastically baroque and elaborate inferiority complex I have ever encountered. Congrats.StuartDickson said:
Idiot.Casino_Royale said:Angus MacNeil has a fantastic accent.
A Scottish one that sounds Welsh.
He’s a Gael.
What are the roots of your late gothic superiority complex?
Tho the apogee of the style is surely King’s, Cambridge. Architecture so sublime, vaulting so delicate, it turns into a kind of.... mist.
https://images.app.goo.gl/5gBsFqvAZUSiR2sP7
My top ten, in no obvious order
Durham
Salisbury
Kilfenora (mad!)
Burgos
St Basil’s
Amalfi
Hagia Sophia
Laon
St Peters (is it a cathedral?)
Hallgrimskirka
Senlis
Soissins
Beauvais
Amiens
Chartres
Brechin
Dunblane
St Andrews
Fortrose
I need to Google this. Weird!
https://images.app.goo.gl/g2uzdjS1ju5jwAsn70 -
They can't but it will be enough to reassure working class Labour Leave voters thinking of voting Tory over Corbyn's Brexit betrayal to make the final leap to Boris.MaxPB said:
I don't think going into another election promising more austerity would be a winner, but I also don't see how we can outbid Labour on spending.Gallowgate said:
Meanwhile Labour will be shaking that mighty magic money tree within an inch of its life. It was very thoughtful for Javid to plant it for McDonnell today.MaxPB said:
I'm not so sure on that. Labour having to be dragged into an election will be brought up at every available opportunity.Benpointer said:
By the time we're into an election campaign, Labour will not have turned down the election offer.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.
Today's vote will be yesterday's fish and chip paper.
Cummings has wargamed this as vital if Labour marginal seats in the North, the Midlands and Wales are to go blue0 -
It all turns on October 31st. If we leave by then he is a hero. If we don't he is done for.MaxPB said:
Well all they will hear tonight and tomorrow (and the next few days) is that Boris wanted to have an election and Labour denied the people a say. As you rightly point out, the detail of whatever no deal blocking stuff will get lost in the small print. The headlines are "Labour vote down election". It's going to play very badly IMO.The_Taxman said:
After speaking to someone I know, they ventured their opinion on Brexit. They still don't understand why the 2016 vote did not mean we instantly left the EU! I tried explaining it is a bit more complicated than that but did not want to cause offence by outlining how things work or do not work. By the same token, the average person probably does not understand the FTPA and why Boris cannot have an election, so far. People think what they want to think and the sheer level of ignorance on democratic institutions and the processes involved seem to pass many citizens.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.1 -
When did you leave?Philip_Thompson said:
In spirit, not formally yet.TOPPING said:
Have you rejoined the party?Philip_Thompson said:
Goodbye Gauke!Gallowgate said:0 -
Leave and Let (People) DieNoo said:
The World (Trade Organisation) Is Not Enoughwilliamglenn said:
Boris Johnson is more like ‘My, another May!’MarqueeMark said:
But he still gets to Die Another Day......Scott_P said:0 -
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That strikes me as a poor strategy. But what do I know, I'm just a lowly analyst.HYUFD said:
They can't but it will be enough to reassure working class Labour Leaver voters thinking of voting Tory over Corbyn's Brexit betrayal to make the final leap to BorisMaxPB said:
I don't think going into another election promising more austerity would be a winner, but I also don't see how we can outbid Labour on spending.Gallowgate said:
Meanwhile Labour will be shaking that mighty magic money tree within an inch of its life. It was very thoughtful for Javid to plant it for McDonnell today.MaxPB said:
I'm not so sure on that. Labour having to be dragged into an election will be brought up at every available opportunity.Benpointer said:
By the time we're into an election campaign, Labour will not have turned down the election offer.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.
Today's vote will be yesterday's fish and chip paper.0 -
When May was elected.Benpointer said:
When did you leave?Philip_Thompson said:
In spirit, not formally yet.TOPPING said:
Have you rejoined the party?Philip_Thompson said:
Goodbye Gauke!Gallowgate said:
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To be fair the usual papers (Tory press or Brexit supporting media) run negative stories about Corbyn, McDonnell and Labour on a daily basis. So, nothing new from that angle. Boris has been given a free ride by the press and I cannot see why he will suddenly experience a removal of that. I cannot stand BJ and have never understood his appeal. Maybe people will realise he is obnoxious and not to be trusted? But I won't hold my breath!MaxPB said:
Well all they will hear tonight and tomorrow (and the next few days) is that Boris wanted to have an election and Labour denied the people a say. As you rightly point out, the detail of whatever no deal blocking stuff will get lost in the small print. The headlines are "Labour vote down election". It's going to play very badly IMO.The_Taxman said:
After speaking to someone I know, they ventured their opinion on Brexit. They still don't understand why the 2016 vote did not mean we instantly left the EU! I tried explaining it is a bit more complicated than that but did not want to cause offence by outlining how things work or do not work. By the same token, the average person probably does not understand the FTPA and why Boris cannot have an election, so far. People think what they want to think and the sheer level of ignorance on democratic institutions and the processes involved seem to pass many citizens.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.0 -
0
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All day I have been getting whats app messages from friends and Corbyn is getting an absolute bollockingTGOHF said:0 -
True. I don't see how it's possible, even in the unlikely transition scenario.TOPPING said:
It all turns on October 31st. If we leave by then he is a hero. If we don't he is done for.MaxPB said:
Well all they will hear tonight and tomorrow (and the next few days) is that Boris wanted to have an election and Labour denied the people a say. As you rightly point out, the detail of whatever no deal blocking stuff will get lost in the small print. The headlines are "Labour vote down election". It's going to play very badly IMO.The_Taxman said:
After speaking to someone I know, they ventured their opinion on Brexit. They still don't understand why the 2016 vote did not mean we instantly left the EU! I tried explaining it is a bit more complicated than that but did not want to cause offence by outlining how things work or do not work. By the same token, the average person probably does not understand the FTPA and why Boris cannot have an election, so far. People think what they want to think and the sheer level of ignorance on democratic institutions and the processes involved seem to pass many citizens.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.0 -
The idea that Labour will be damaged in an election campaign by in the past voting against an election having just voted for an election seems to me to faintly absurd.0
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Tory MPs were all elected on a manifest to "deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union", not a No Deal crash.GarethoftheVale2 said:
It's sad for them but being an MP is not a job for life. Too many still treat parliament like a cosy gentleman's club.kle4 said:As joyful as those happy to see the back of Gauke and Clarke and the rest are, I hope they are aware they are displaying the exact same sentiments as Corbynistas. Which is fine, be a Borista to their Corbynista, but it is eerily similar in style.
Good night all.
In the private sector it happens all the time that a new CEO comes in and some of the existing managers move on.
Ultimately, the voters need to know they will get what they vote for:
If they give Boris a majority, he can deliver on no deal. Ditto with Corbyn and his agenda.0 -
The Daily Mail website, the most visited English speaking news website isn’t exactly optimal.HYUFD said:Great headlines for the Government tonight, Corbyn blocks Brexit and the Government ends austerity and increases spending on the NHS and police etc.
What a constrast to GE17 when Corbyn promised to back Brexit and could attack May's Government over continued austerity
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I agree in terms of the Leave voters. It is difficult to see what more Johnson could do to win over Brexit Party voters. You also wonder whether there are people claiming in opinion polls to be willing to vote for the BXP just to keep the pressure up on the Conservatives, while intending to vote Conservative all along.Pulpstar said:Corbyn/Milne at least do want an election I think, they just want the Benn bill to be watertight before granting it.
But the Starmer/others strategy isn't about preventing a "No Deal" Brexit. It's entirely about attempting to humiliate Johnson by making him sign Corbyn's surrender letter in order to gain narrow political advantage before a GE begins.
It's too clever by half !
Johnson is becoming the totem for leave, Farage has barely been on the airwaves. He's drowned out right now and I expect polls to show further collapse into the Tories of the leave vote.
However, the question of the overall Tory share also depends on how much leakage there will be of Remainer Tories (still 15% of the Remain vote in the last YouGov) in the direction of the LDs or DKs, and whether any more Labour Leavers now give up on Corbyn (most have so far gone to the BXP rather than the Cons).
It would be decent of YouGov to conduct another poll. The monthly IPSOS Mori poll is also well overdue. The end July one was published on 1st August.0 -
It's hard to understand what's changed with Jezza since 2017? I always had him down a campaigner at heart. A politiican that was most at home away from the petty games of Westminster and out on the stump.HYUFD said:Great headlines for the Government tonight, Corbyn blocks Brexit and the Government ends austerity and increases spending on the NHS and police etc.
What a constrast to GE17 when Corbyn promised to back Brexit and could attack May's Government over continued austerity
It's very, very disappoitning.
To think I've been toying with voting for him in recent months.
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We should also remember Boris Johnson's flexible relationship with the truth. If he wins an election on October 15th (and has therefore got the voters out of the way for the next four-and-a-half years) then he can always emerge from the European Council meeting, declare that significant progress has been made, and that he has therefore agreed to a short, technical extension to A50 whilst the details are thrashed out.kle4 said:
BXP soared in the polls when the extension occurred, he wanted to avoid that possibility. Even though it immediately meant his own policy of negotiation and deal, requiring legislation, was undercut by not having time.glw said:
Richard Nabavi was one of the first to point out the sheer political stupidity of the 31st October deadline. Although that was more in the context of the clock running out whilst a new deal is being negotiated, rather than BoJo's self-inflicted wounds. If Boris has been just a little bit flexible with the date of exit, even something like "early 2020" would have done, he could have avoided this mess.Scott_P said:BoZo is on the hook, and squirming like mad...
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1169356849185005568
Campaigning on a platform of leaving on October 31st doesn't, astonishingly, mean it has to be delivered if the Tories win. So long as he manages to get out at some point not too long thereafter, then the minutiae of when it was achieved would've been long forgotten by May 2024.0 -
No Prime Minister is elected. To use that phraseology, particularly in the headline, is a sign of political malevolence. It immediately stops reading of the following article because it is just going to be a political screed rather than an analysis.dr_spyn said:Unelected PM Boris Johnson, oh for goodness sake, what was Gordon Brown, Theresa May in 2016?
First.
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The scary thing is that Labour have played this exactly right so far. Which suggests a ludicrous move can only be just around the corner!SouthamObserver said:
Without an election before 31st October Johnson’s entire strategy is in shreds. Tonight he is entirely dependent on the stupidity of Jeremy Corbyn. So the chances are he’ll be fine.Scott_P said:BoZo is on the hook, and squirming like mad...
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/11693568491850055680 -
"Use your enemy's strength against him" -- Sun Tzuglw said:
Defeat your enemy by defeating yourself. "Genius."kle4 said:
BXP soared in the polls when the extension occurred, he wanted to avoid that possibility. Even though it immediately meant his own policy of negotiation and deal, requiring legislation, was undercut by not having time.glw said:
Richard Nabavi was one of the first to point out the sheer political stupidity of the 31st October deadline. Although that was more in the context of the clock running out whilst a new deal is being negotiated, rather than BoJo's self-inflicted wounds. If Boris has been just a little bit flexible with the date of exit, even something like "early 2020" would have done, he could have avoided this mess.Scott_P said:BoZo is on the hook, and squirming like mad...
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1169356849185005568
"Use our own weakness against ourselves" -- Dominic Cummings0 -
Kinnock and Benn are directing the government agenda; Corbyn is following Blair's advice.
Interesting times
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It isn't it is the ONLY strategy that can get a Tory majority, most voters now oppose further austerity in the polls but also oppose further extension and want Brexit doneMaxPB said:
That strikes me as a poor strategy. But what do I know, I'm just a lowly analyst.HYUFD said:
They can't but it will be enough to reassure working class Labour Leaver voters thinking of voting Tory over Corbyn's Brexit betrayal to make the final leap to BorisMaxPB said:
I don't think going into another election promising more austerity would be a winner, but I also don't see how we can outbid Labour on spending.Gallowgate said:
Meanwhile Labour will be shaking that mighty magic money tree within an inch of its life. It was very thoughtful for Javid to plant it for McDonnell today.MaxPB said:
I'm not so sure on that. Labour having to be dragged into an election will be brought up at every available opportunity.Benpointer said:
By the time we're into an election campaign, Labour will not have turned down the election offer.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.
Today's vote will be yesterday's fish and chip paper.0 -
Bob__Sykes said:
I long for the halycon days of early 2019 when the Brexit impasse was just a mess rather than a full blown seismic crisis.
To think barely a week ago I was giving Boris 8 out of 10 for his first month in the job, even as a soft Remainer...
Wasn’t Parliament in recess during his first month? 😁0 -
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Here’s another goody.
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Boris has just been elected by the MPs and members with a clear mandate to change the previous policy.Benpointer said:
Tory MPs were all elected on a manifest to "deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union", not a No Deal crash.GarethoftheVale2 said:
It's sad for them but being an MP is not a job for life. Too many still treat parliament like a cosy gentleman's club.kle4 said:As joyful as those happy to see the back of Gauke and Clarke and the rest are, I hope they are aware they are displaying the exact same sentiments as Corbynistas. Which is fine, be a Borista to their Corbynista, but it is eerily similar in style.
Good night all.
In the private sector it happens all the time that a new CEO comes in and some of the existing managers move on.
Ultimately, the voters need to know they will get what they vote for:
If they give Boris a majority, he can deliver on no deal. Ditto with Corbyn and his agenda.
By partner is a Kiwi and is shocked and how much UK MPs are allowed to get away with not following the whip. It wouldn't happen in Aus and NZ (although the Australians tend to knife their leaders instead)0 -
Tantrum of BorisNoo said:
The World (Trade Organisation) Is Not Enoughwilliamglenn said:
Boris Johnson is more like ‘My, another May!’MarqueeMark said:
But he still gets to Die Another Day......Scott_P said:
1 -
He is getting conflicting advice. On the one hand, you have the politically savvy and generally smart Starmer and McDonnell saying don’t give Johnson what he wants let him fail to do or die by 31st October, on the other you’ve got the Milne and the Morning Star Brexiteers saying Labour cannot lose so let’s fight an election now. At the moment he’s listening to Milne.Foxy said:
Jezza has had a good week. He may be a fairly dim anti-semite, but unlike Boris he seems to be getting good advice.SouthamObserver said:
Without an election before 31st October Johnson’s entire strategy is in shreds. Tonight he is entirely dependent on the stupidity of Jeremy Corbyn. So the chances are he’ll be fine.Scott_P said:BoZo is on the hook, and squirming like mad...
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1169356849185005568
0 -
Lords 10% through the filibuster.0
-
I don't think HYFUD has the remotest fucking clue of how tribal and anti-southern posh Northern voters are...MaxPB said:
That strikes me as a poor strategy. But what do I know, I'm just a lowly analyst.HYUFD said:
They can't but it will be enough to reassure working class Labour Leaver voters thinking of voting Tory over Corbyn's Brexit betrayal to make the final leap to BorisMaxPB said:
I don't think going into another election promising more austerity would be a winner, but I also don't see how we can outbid Labour on spending.Gallowgate said:
Meanwhile Labour will be shaking that mighty magic money tree within an inch of its life. It was very thoughtful for Javid to plant it for McDonnell today.MaxPB said:
I'm not so sure on that. Labour having to be dragged into an election will be brought up at every available opportunity.Benpointer said:
By the time we're into an election campaign, Labour will not have turned down the election offer.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.
Today's vote will be yesterday's fish and chip paper.
I'm a City (Man) City fan...I'm a Greenpeace, lefty, liberal (Jewish lineage), climate change activist...my team is now run by an Autocratic Oil, Arab Oligarch...and who do I still support? Many City of fucking course....
0 -
+1Anabobazina said:The idea that Labour will be damaged in an election campaign by in the past voting against an election having just voted for an election seems to me to faintly absurd.
too much short-term thinking. The opposition should only agree to an election on their terms not BJ's. I would insist on leader debates and anything else they want to include in the campaign or sort out before dissolution.0 -
He's following Blair's advice? Blair whose idea of "democracy" is bombing the absolute crap out of impovrished nations?Benpointer said:Kinnock and Benn are directing the government agenda; Corbyn is following Blair's advice.
Interesting times
That Blair?0 -
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Getting working class Labour voters to vote for the Tory party is a fools errand.HYUFD said:
It isn't it is the ONLY strategy that can get a Tory majority, most voters now oppose further austerity in the polls but also oppose further extension and want Brexit doneMaxPB said:
That strikes me as a poor strategy. But what do I know, I'm just a lowly analyst.HYUFD said:
They can't but it will be enough to reassure working class Labour Leaver voters thinking of voting Tory over Corbyn's Brexit betrayal to make the final leap to BorisMaxPB said:
I don't think going into another election promising more austerity would be a winner, but I also don't see how we can outbid Labour on spending.Gallowgate said:
Meanwhile Labour will be shaking that mighty magic money tree within an inch of its life. It was very thoughtful for Javid to plant it for McDonnell today.MaxPB said:
I'm not so sure on that. Labour having to be dragged into an election will be brought up at every available opportunity.Benpointer said:
By the time we're into an election campaign, Labour will not have turned down the election offer.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.
Today's vote will be yesterday's fish and chip paper.0 -
House of Lords like a test match version of "Just a minute"0
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It only matters if those friends supported Corbyn in 2017.Floater said:
All day I have been getting whats app messages from friends and Corbyn is getting an absolute bollockingTGOHF said:
Having said that, Johnson's task isn't huge. He doesn't need a landslide. He just needs a net gain of 20 or more seats.0 -
Not necessarily, Boris has voted for No Deal and the WA at MV3 and to remove the backstop. the Commons has voted to stay in the EU past October 31st, against No Deal and against the WA.TOPPING said:
It all turns on October 31st. If we leave by then he is a hero. If we don't he is done for.MaxPB said:
Well all they will hear tonight and tomorrow (and the next few days) is that Boris wanted to have an election and Labour denied the people a say. As you rightly point out, the detail of whatever no deal blocking stuff will get lost in the small print. The headlines are "Labour vote down election". It's going to play very badly IMO.The_Taxman said:
After speaking to someone I know, they ventured their opinion on Brexit. They still don't understand why the 2016 vote did not mean we instantly left the EU! I tried explaining it is a bit more complicated than that but did not want to cause offence by outlining how things work or do not work. By the same token, the average person probably does not understand the FTPA and why Boris cannot have an election, so far. People think what they want to think and the sheer level of ignorance on democratic institutions and the processes involved seem to pass many citizens.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.
This week has been a PR exercise from Boris reassuring Leavers he is on their side against the diehard Remainer traitors in the Commons, he might try and ask the Queen to refuse royal assent but even if the Bill against No Deal passes led by Corbyn Boris can then call a general election backed by Labour with a mandate for Brexit having always voted to Leave on October 31st while Corbyn has always voted to Remain past October 31st and to leave the EU if the Tories win a majority straightaway.
He can then watch the Labour Leave seats start to topple0 -
Let's go for that vote and have pics of Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson on every billboard.....
0 -
Interesting to follow the progress of the Lords filibuster:
https://twitter.com/RichardNewby3
The government peers are relatively thin on the ground. I wonder how well their stamina will hold up overnight.0 -
The point is there is general agreement on the technical solutionPhilip_Thompson said:
I'm not being obtuse at all.rcs1000 said:
Are you being deliberately obtuse?Philip_Thompson said:Ireland suggesting border checks could be done away from the border: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49587610
Gee who's been suggesting that?
The backstop is b****ks and always has been.
We all know the correct technical solution to the border. There have been papers published, including by the European Commission, on the solution.
The issue is not "is there a technical solution which removes the need for a hard border", it is "what happens between the end of the transition period and the implementation of the technical solution"?
There is also the - very reasonable - fear that the EU or Ireland will drag their feet once we're in the backstop, and that's why binding international arbitration was added to the WA backstop text.
If there is a correct technical solution to the border then lets drop the vile backstop, enter a transition [during which the backstop doesn't apply anyway], avoid the risk of no deal and work on the solution.
I don't care if the EU or Ireland don't drag their feet once in the backstop. I object to being in the backstop full stop. And if there is an [imperfect] solution that can be done immediately in the event of no deal, it should be a reasonable fallback at the end of a transition.
The answer to "what happens between the end of the transition period and the implementation of the technical solution" should not be the backstop IMO it should be "unless an agreement otherwise is reached at the time, then the same as would occur in a no deal scenario".
What there is not general agreement on is what happens between the end of the transition (due for end 2020) and its implementation.0 -
I think HYUFD will pop that through his cipher and end up with a great headline somewhereGallowgate said:
The Daily Mail website, the most visited English speaking news website isn’t exactly optimal.HYUFD said:Great headlines for the Government tonight, Corbyn blocks Brexit and the Government ends austerity and increases spending on the NHS and police etc.
What a constrast to GE17 when Corbyn promised to back Brexit and could attack May's Government over continued austerity
0 -
Eh? Milne is the one who wants a chaotic No Deal Tory result so that Jezza can pick up the pieces.SouthamObserver said:
He is getting conflicting advice. On the one hand, you have the politically savvy and generally smart Starmer and McDonnell saying don’t give Johnson what he wants let him fail to do or die by 31st October, on the other you’ve got the Milne and the Morning Star Brexiteers saying Labour cannot lose so let’s fight an election now. At the moment he’s listening to Milne.Foxy said:
Jezza has had a good week. He may be a fairly dim anti-semite, but unlike Boris he seems to be getting good advice.SouthamObserver said:
Without an election before 31st October Johnson’s entire strategy is in shreds. Tonight he is entirely dependent on the stupidity of Jeremy Corbyn. So the chances are he’ll be fine.Scott_P said:BoZo is on the hook, and squirming like mad...
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/11693568491850055680 -
Labour will try to explain turning down an election but it will be difficult. For the last two years, we've heard little else from Jezza. And he has to explain it in a sentence. Best of luck with that one.0
-
How many days, weeks can Jezza’s ego take being called a chicken 24/7 ?
The street fighter turned hider.1 -
40-50 net gains gets no deal, 70-80 gets a deal.FF43 said:
It only matters if those friends supported Corbyn in 2017.Floater said:
All day I have been getting whats app messages from friends and Corbyn is getting an absolute bollockingTGOHF said:
Having said that, Johnson's task isn't huge. He doesn't need a landslide. He just needs a net gain of 20 or more seats.0 -
"Without an election before 31st October Johnson’s entire strategy is in shreds."
Doesn't he want an election AFTER 31st?0 -
Big praise for Gina Miller.0
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How come we didn’t get several thread headers on your agonised tussle with your conscience?Philip_Thompson said:
When May was elected.Benpointer said:
When did you leave?Philip_Thompson said:
In spirit, not formally yet.TOPPING said:
Have you rejoined the party?Philip_Thompson said:
Goodbye Gauke!Gallowgate said:0 -
Lord True "Doesn't want to prolong his speech"0
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Haha....I don't think you quite realise just how repellant Boris Johnson is when we are faced with his entitled, narcissistic bluster day in and out....HYUFD said:
Not necessarily, Boris has voted for No Deal and the WA at MV3 and to remove the backstop. the Commons has voted to stay in the EU past October 31st, against No Deal and against the WA.TOPPING said:
It all turns on October 31st. If we leave by then he is a hero. If we don't he is done for.MaxPB said:
Well all they will hear tonight and tomorrow (and the next few days) is that Boris wanted to have an election and Labour denied the people a say. As you rightly point out, the detail of whatever no deal blocking stuff will get lost in the small print. The headlines are "Labour vote down election". It's going to play very badly IMO.The_Taxman said:
After speaking to someone I know, they ventured their opinion on Brexit. They still don't understand why the 2016 vote did not mean we instantly left the EU! I tried explaining it is a bit more complicated than that but did not want to cause offence by outlining how things work or do not work. By the same token, the average person probably does not understand the FTPA and why Boris cannot have an election, so far. People think what they want to think and the sheer level of ignorance on democratic institutions and the processes involved seem to pass many citizens.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.
This week has been a PR exercise from Boris reassuring Leavers he is on their side against the diehard Remainer traitors in the Commons, he might try and ask the Queen to refuse royal assent but even if the Bill against No Deal passes led by Corbyn Boris can then call a general election backed by Labour with a mandate for Brexit having always voted to Leave on October 31st while Corbyn has always voted to Remain past October 31st and to leave the EU if the Tories win a majority straightaway.
He can then watch the Labour Leave seats start to topple
0 -
On that I agree.rcs1000 said:
The point is there is general agreement on the technical solutionPhilip_Thompson said:
I'm not being obtuse at all.rcs1000 said:
Are you being deliberately obtuse?Philip_Thompson said:Ireland suggesting border checks could be done away from the border: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49587610
Gee who's been suggesting that?
The backstop is b****ks and always has been.
We all know the correct technical solution to the border. There have been papers published, including by the European Commission, on the solution.
The issue is not "is there a technical solution which removes the need for a hard border", it is "what happens between the end of the transition period and the implementation of the technical solution"?
There is also the - very reasonable - fear that the EU or Ireland will drag their feet once we're in the backstop, and that's why binding international arbitration was added to the WA backstop text.
If there is a correct technical solution to the border then lets drop the vile backstop, enter a transition [during which the backstop doesn't apply anyway], avoid the risk of no deal and work on the solution.
I don't care if the EU or Ireland don't drag their feet once in the backstop. I object to being in the backstop full stop. And if there is an [imperfect] solution that can be done immediately in the event of no deal, it should be a reasonable fallback at the end of a transition.
The answer to "what happens between the end of the transition period and the implementation of the technical solution" should not be the backstop IMO it should be "unless an agreement otherwise is reached at the time, then the same as would occur in a no deal scenario".
What there is not general agreement on is what happens between the end of the transition (due for end 2020) and its implementation.0 -
WRONG, 6% of 2017 Labour voters are now voting Tory and only 1% of 2017 Tory voters are now voting Labour with YouGov this week.MaxPB said:
Getting working class Labour voters to vote for the Tory party is a fools errand.HYUFD said:
It isn't it is the ONLY strategy that can get a Tory majority, most voters now oppose further austerity in the polls but also oppose further extension and want Brexit doneMaxPB said:
That strikes me as a poor strategy. But what do I know, I'm just a lowly analyst.HYUFD said:
They can't but it will be enough to reassure working class Labour Leaver voters thinking of voting Tory over Corbyn's Brexit betrayal to make the final leap to BorisMaxPB said:
I don't think going into another election promising more austerity would be a winner, but I also don't see how we can outbid Labour on spending.Gallowgate said:
Meanwhile Labour will be shaking that mighty magic money tree within an inch of its life. It was very thoughtful for Javid to plant it for McDonnell today.MaxPB said:
I'm not so sure on that. Labour having to be dragged into an election will be brought up at every available opportunity.Benpointer said:
By the time we're into an election campaign, Labour will not have turned down the election offer.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.
Today's vote will be yesterday's fish and chip paper.
8% of 2017 Labour voters are also now voting Brexit Party and just need one more push to come to Boris
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/c68uv1jm1d/TheTimes_190903_VI_Trackers_w.pdf0 -
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Er, no... 15th October was his date.rottenborough said:"Without an election before 31st October Johnson’s entire strategy is in shreds."
Doesn't he want an election AFTER 31st?0 -
After a visit to Glasgow Cathedral, according my History teacher one of my classmates wrote down that Glasgow Cathedral was famous for its flying buttocks.FF43 said:
I have to say Stuart's list of Scottish cathedrals is idiosyncratic, missing out Kirkwall and Glasgow. Also St Andrews Cathedral is, patchy.Carnyx said:
Now, now. Try St Magnus (Kirkwall).Byronic said:
Scotland has cathedrals?? How? Are they made out of piled turf, or something?StuartDickson said:
LaonByronic said:
Shall we have a favorite cathedrals game? OOOOH PLEASETabman said:
Ooops. My bad. It's been a while since I last saw the inside. But it's nice to be able to agree with Sean@ByronicByronic said:
Canterbury! Beautiful. The great reliquary of Englishness.Benpointer said:
Perpendicular gothic - unsatisfactory engineering? That's a bit unfair.StuartDickson said:
I suspected as much. All flamboyant, drooping appendage, with unsatisfactory engineering.Byronic said:
The Perpendicular.StuartDickson said:
Ta.Byronic said:
You have the most fantastically baroque and elaborate inferiority complex I have ever encountered. Congrats.StuartDickson said:
Idiot.Casino_Royale said:Angus MacNeil has a fantastic accent.
A Scottish one that sounds Welsh.
He’s a Gael.
What are the roots of your late gothic superiority complex?
Tho the apogee of the style is surely King’s, Cambridge. Architecture so sublime, vaulting so delicate, it turns into a kind of.... mist.
https://images.app.goo.gl/5gBsFqvAZUSiR2sP7
My top ten, in no obvious order
Durham
Salisbury
Kilfenora (mad!)
Burgos
St Basil’s
Amalfi
Hagia Sophia
Laon
St Peters (is it a cathedral?)
Hallgrimskirka
Senlis
Soissins
Beauvais
Amiens
Chartres
Brechin
Dunblane
St Andrews
Fortrose
I need to Google this. Weird!
https://images.app.goo.gl/g2uzdjS1ju5jwAsn7
Wells is one of my favourite Cathedrals, Gloucester is another. St Mark's in Venice has the most extraordinary tiled mosaics. Paddy's Wigwam is wonderful on a sunny day, when the light changes as the sun moves round.0 -
I can't think there is a lot happened the last 48 hrs that wasn't as expected. Maybe the numbers were a bit higher but I'm not sure about that - the lower numbers seemed to be wishful thinking.
But Boris was a long way off how he performed just after taking office today, but not as bad as his detractors wish. The HofL stuff is where it is at at the moment - that seems to be just empty optimism to me.
It is hard to disagree with Corbyn's logic on the GE vote.
The Kinnock amendment is interesting and certainly a very minor win for Boris.
Less obviously not getting the GE might be another minor win for Boris.
Of course he has a measure of control of the house when the proprogation timetable sticks in - he only has to allow stuff he wants.
Last time we had a GE on 15 Oct Labour won by 3.0 -
What many people will see is Corbyn stopping Brexit and then refusing to let the public vote on his actions.0
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You just don’t understand. Visceral hatred of the tories is just a way of life up here. They may vote Brexit Party but not Tory.HYUFD said:
WRONG, 6% of 2017 Labour voters are now voting Tory and only 1% of 2017 Tory voters are now voting Labour.MaxPB said:
Getting working class Labour voters to vote for the Tory party is a fools errand.HYUFD said:
It isn't it is the ONLY strategy that can get a Tory majority, most voters now oppose further austerity in the polls but also oppose further extension and want Brexit doneMaxPB said:
That strikes me as a poor strategy. But what do I know, I'm just a lowly analyst.HYUFD said:
They can't but it will be enough to reassure working class Labour Leaver voters thinking of voting Tory over Corbyn's Brexit betrayal to make the final leap to BorisMaxPB said:
I don't think going into another election promising more austerity would be a winner, but I also don't see how we can outbid Labour on spending.Gallowgate said:
Meanwhile Labour will be shaking that mighty magic money tree within an inch of its life. It was very thoughtful for Javid to plant it for McDonnell today.MaxPB said:
I'm not so sure on that. Labour having to be dragged into an election will be brought up at every available opportunity.Benpointer said:
By the time we're into an election campaign, Labour will not have turned down the election offer.MaxPB said:Hmm, it's going to be tough for Labour to use the unelected insult against Boris any more.
I think them turning down an election will play very poorly with the public, they do look scared and on the run.
Today's vote will be yesterday's fish and chip paper.
8% of 2017 Labour voters are also now voting Brexit Party and just need one more push to come to Boris
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/c68uv1jm1d/TheTimes_190903_VI_Trackers_w.pdf0 -
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I wrote that I dislike her and why. I don't think I was especially prominent enough to do a thread on that. It was a personal decision and I just did it.Charles said:
How come we didn’t get several thread headers on your agonised tussle with your conscience?Philip_Thompson said:
When May was elected.Benpointer said:
When did you leave?Philip_Thompson said:
In spirit, not formally yet.TOPPING said:
Have you rejoined the party?Philip_Thompson said:
Goodbye Gauke!Gallowgate said:
And there was no agonised tussle. It was an easy decision.0 -
He's just trying to steal some of Nicola's limelight.Scott_P said: 0 -
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Thinking on BBC Outside Source was that the filibuster won’t make it as they’ll run through the weekend if necessaryChris said:Interesting to follow the progress of the Lords filibuster:
https://twitter.com/RichardNewby3
The government peers are relatively thin on the ground. I wonder how well their stamina will hold up overnight.0 -
Penrith and Borders: Independent Conservative GAIN from Conservative.Scott_P said:0 -
No, the Commons already voted for the Withdrawal Agreement minus backstop remember but has always voted against No Deal so the reverse at mostMaxPB said:
40-50 net gains gets no deal, 70-80 gets a deal.FF43 said:
It only matters if those friends supported Corbyn in 2017.Floater said:
All day I have been getting whats app messages from friends and Corbyn is getting an absolute bollockingTGOHF said:
Having said that, Johnson's task isn't huge. He doesn't need a landslide. He just needs a net gain of 20 or more seats.0 -
Got to feel sorry for TheSaj tonight...
LOL0 -
0
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Scope for making a series of Laurel & Hardy style images replete with "another fine mess" taglines.tyson said:Let's go for that vote and have pics of Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson on every billboard.....
That said, I think it's usually a bad idea to put your opponent's faces on your literature.0 -
The trouble with being an obsessive game theory player is if the other side don't give a fuck about game theory.Scott_P said:0
This discussion has been closed.