politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A man of principles. Boris Johnson and the EU
Comments
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Bozo’s reputation for hard work and attention to detail being legendary.Philip_Thompson said:
Good! We don't need a statesman, we need a grifter who will get this through.Zephyr said:
You would admit though, watching Boris at his press conference with Angela, he did appear gauche and unstatesmanlike?HYUFD said:
Yes and Merkel suggesting an alternative to the backstop could be found within 30 daysPhilip_Thompson said:
Elements of sanity entering the discussion.HYUFD said:
Funny how the backstop couldn't be replaced, there were no alternatives, it was absolutely fundamentally required . . . only to then say lets spend the next 30 days discussing its replacement.
Serious grown up politics entering the discussion. Well done Boris!
And interesting that it is Merkel - not Tusk or Varadkar - that was the one to go to, in order to make progress. The sheriff is calling the shots now, BMW no doubt have been in touch
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-494276740 -
Appropriate in the circumstances of the late 19th century, when the lease was established, perhaps. Not so much in the early 21st century.Charles said:
The fact that the lease existed in the first place establishes the principle that financial transactions for territory might be appropriate in some circumstancesTOPPING said:
It's not similarly at all. The lease expired. The idea of buying parts of countries is more than a little unusual. It is bizarre. As the whole planet apart from D Trump (and you?) seems to appreciate.Charles said:
I don’t have issue with it in principle. Of course it’s a little unusual in the modern era, but if - for example - the US were to pay us for exclusive use of say the Chagas Islands I’d be good with that.TOPPING said:
But in general you agree with countries trying to buy other countries' territories. Bizarre.Charles said:
Access to the Arctic is priceless.stodge said:
I just wonder what Trump would have paid for Greenland. Alaska was bought for only $120 million or so in today's money (roughly 2 cents per acre) which is incredible.Scott_P said:
Alaska is 586,000 square miles and Greenland is 836,000 square miles so about 140% of Alaska.
If I was Denmark, what would I accept? 100 billion kroner?
But of course Denmark couldn’t say that so came up with some PC nonsense instead
Similarly we were right to return the New Territories to China when our lease expired
I’ve not been the Greenland but I suspect if you offered the inhabitants the chance to become US citizens they would go for it0 -
Would you happily swallow an extension? Would be one of the most amusing things on PB if so.HYUFD said:
There have been rumours the Boris camp could extend the transition period to do precisely thatrcs1000 said:
He's right, they can. AND THEY ARE EXACTLY WHAT IS ENVISAGED IN THE WA/PD*.HYUFD said:
The point is that - realistically - the technology is going to take two to three years (not 14 months) to implement. The Backstop exists to bridge any gap.
The solution is a simple one: extend the transition period.
* This assumes there is no FTA which negates the need for border checks0 -
Of course Boris looks like a world leader, despite your dislike of him Boris is already up there with Churchill, Thatcher and Blair in his presence and recognition on the world stageTOPPING said:
Boris does not look like a world leader and he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with to boot. Why do you indulge him so?HYUFD said:
No, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal.TOPPING said:
Even though he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with. You still seem to revere him. Very strange. Quite admire Corbyn do you?HYUFD said:BBC News at 10 and ITV news leading on the Boris and Merkel language.
Ignoring the policy and backstop or any potential alternative copletely there is a real body language change between Boris and May. When May met Merkel Merkel was clearly the stronger and more confident party, with May more hunched and reserved, however today Boris looked confident and strong and spoke straight to camera and met Merkel on at least equal terms if not more
Seriously though there are only 3 UK PMs in my lifetime who have genuinely looked like world leaders and confident on the world stage, Thatcher, Blair and now Boris, with maybe Cameron halfway there. Boris is making his mark already0 -
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I'm thinking. I could expand the argument to include the Navy and press-gangs, but that's not in the spirit of your point. I would throw in state religions (which England formally has but the US does not), state education, and the UK tendency to centralise. The US and UK handled WW2 differently: the UK converted to a wholly war footing very early and had a lot of state control, wheras US did not militarise its civic society. The nationalisation waves of the Attlee Government were enormous and all-persuasive.Charles said:
Disagree - post the civil war we’ve only had large armies during times of war (which were frequent...) - standing armies were much smaller.viewcode said:
The UK does not have a tradition of suspicion of large standing armies. We've had quite a few of them, lots of conscription, and the only reason why the current one is so small is because of money.Charles said:
I think it’s almost solely the US and U.K. with the suspicion of standing armies you mention. It’s why we don’t give our police guns and why the US arms its citizensFoxy said:Sure, some parts of the world are not at the stage of social development as Europe, so may well feel a degree of military threat. In practice these tend to be autocratic countries, and the army is mostly a menace to their own people, as we see at the moment in Shenzen and the implicit threats to Hong Kong. Across most of the world this is true, As democracy has spread through Africa and Latin America, military expenditure has dropped there too.
A lot of Western countries, notably the USA and UK, have traditionally been suspicious of large standing armies as instruments of tyranny. We had a substantial navy that helped us avoid that European disease of militarism.
As a rough rule of thumb, Americans are individualists that defends against its Government (so Posse Comitatus rules, states rights, a one-page census form, a constitution with "we the people") but trusts industry (so weaker data protection rules, you can sell blood), but Brits are societal and want a strong Government to act for it (so television licenses, compulsory seatbelts, NHS, a census form on several pages, and constant, constant complaining) but distrust industry (so data protection rules are strict, central blood and organ, um, organisation). Although to be fair things are changing rapidly and I see your point, it wasn't that way in the past
Americans have a fear of State tyranny (the Crown). Brits basically want to be left alone (“my home is my castle”)0 -
The British Indian Army of WW2 was the largest all-volunteer force ever assembled.Foxy said:
Apart from the American Civil War and 1941 onwards, the USA has had a very small military. Despite years of tension, the British Army was a fraction of the size of continental armies in 1914. Indeed I think the Serbs fielded a bigger army. We did have the navy, and a long history of press gangs, but it was a volunteer force apart from 1916-18 and 1939-1962.Charles said:
Disagree - post the civil war we’ve only had large armies during times of war (which were frequent...) - standing armies were much smaller.viewcode said:
The UK does not have a tradition of suspicion of large standing armies. We've had quite a few of them, lots of conscription, and the only reason why the current one is so small is because of money.Charles said:
I think it’s almost solely the US and U.K. with the suspicion of standing armies you mention. It’s why we don’t give our police guns and why the US arms its citizensFoxy said:
Sure, some parts of the world are noglw said:
Russia and China are spending considerarbly more in real terms because their economies have been growing very nicely in recent decades. The GDP comparison is deeply misleading, you should look at what they've got and what they are building.Foxy said:
Nope, stone cold sober.Byronic said:I think foxy is drunk. I know the signs.
Just pointing out that countries right across the continent are spending less on their military as a proportion of GDP than at any point in history, and that we are nearly entirely at peace. As a continent, Governments, including our own, rightly see the armed forces as a waste of money, which is why the forces have been cut back so much during austerity by the Tories.
As a rough rule of thumb, Americans are individualists that defends against its Government (so Posse Comitatus rules, states rights, a one-page census form, a constitution with "we the people") but trusts industry (so weaker data protection rules, you can sell blood), but Brits are societal and want a strong Government to act for it (so television licenses, compulsory seatbelts, NHS, a census form on several pages, and constant, constant complaining) but distrust industry (so data protection rules are strict, central blood and organ, um, organisation). Although to be fair things are changing rapidly and I see your point, it wasn't that way in the past
Americans have a fear of State tyranny (the Crown). Brits basically want to be left alone (“my home is my castle”)1 -
Johnson was bullshitting Merkel. Everyone knows that, except possibly Johnson himselfTOPPING said:
Boris does not look like a world leader and he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with to boot. Why do you indulge him so?HYUFD said:
No, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal.TOPPING said:
Even though he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with. You still seem to revere him. Very strange. Quite admire Corbyn do you?HYUFD said:BBC News at 10 and ITV news leading on the Boris and Merkel language.
Ignoring the policy and backstop or any potential alternative copletely there is a real body language change between Boris and May. When May met Merkel Merkel was clearly the stronger and more confident party, with May more hunched and reserved, however today Boris looked confident and strong and spoke straight to camera and met Merkel on at least equal terms if not more
Seriously though there are only 3 UK PMs in my lifetime who have genuinely looked like world leaders and confident on the world stage, Thatcher, Blair and now Boris, with maybe Cameron halfway there. Boris is making his mark already0 -
If he pulls this off, he will be in Downing Street for a decade.IanB2 said:
Bozo’s reputation for hard work and attention to detail being legendary.Philip_Thompson said:
Good! We don't need a statesman, we need a grifter who will get this through.Zephyr said:
You would admit though, watching Boris at his press conference with Angela, he did appear gauche and unstatesmanlike?HYUFD said:
Yes and Merkel suggesting an alternative to the backstop could be found within 30 daysPhilip_Thompson said:
Elements of sanity entering the discussion.HYUFD said:
Funny how the backstop couldn't be replaced, there were no alternatives, it was absolutely fundamentally required . . . only to then say lets spend the next 30 days discussing its replacement.
Serious grown up politics entering the discussion. Well done Boris!
And interesting that it is Merkel - not Tusk or Varadkar - that was the one to go to, in order to make progress. The sheriff is calling the shots now, BMW no doubt have been in touch
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-494276740 -
Far from it, it is currently Boris with clear poll leads at home and able to direct Brexit in a manner that is most appealing to the voters he needs to win ie Brexit diehards and floating voters in the middle.SouthamObserver said:
Bless you. Merkel played Johnson today while doing the crossword and feeding the cat. His credulous response shows how easy it was. She gave him a deadline. He said thank-you.HYUFD said:
No, Boris has committed to find an alternative to the backstop showing he is doing everything he can to get the only Deal to get a majority through Parliament ie the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop as per the Brady Amendment, agreed with the EU.SouthamObserver said:Johnson has now set himself up to fail on two fronts:
1. Finding an alternative to the backstop.
2. Delivering a pain-free No Deal Brexit.
I know everything has changed in politics, but this doesn’t look smart. What am I missing?
If the EU refuses to help then he can show floating voters he pursued No Deal only as a last resort to deliver Brexit, not as his first choice (though Merkel seemed positive something could be done today)
Merkel is not as strong as she was and her party is barely able to keep ahead of the Greens in the latest German polls0 -
Bloody hell, calm down that's a bit prematureHYUFD said:
Of course Boris looks like a world leader, despite your dislike of him Boris is already up there with Churchill, Thatcher and Blair in his presence and recognition on the world stageTOPPING said:
Boris does not look like a world leader and he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with to boot. Why do you indulge him so?HYUFD said:
No, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal.TOPPING said:
Even though he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with. You still seem to revere him. Very strange. Quite admire Corbyn do you?HYUFD said:BBC News at 10 and ITV news leading on the Boris and Merkel language.
Ignoring the policy and backstop or any potential alternative copletely there is a real body language change between Boris and May. When May met Merkel Merkel was clearly the stronger and more confident party, with May more hunched and reserved, however today Boris looked confident and strong and spoke straight to camera and met Merkel on at least equal terms if not more
Seriously though there are only 3 UK PMs in my lifetime who have genuinely looked like world leaders and confident on the world stage, Thatcher, Blair and now Boris, with maybe Cameron halfway there. Boris is making his mark already0 -
No he doesn't. He is leading a party whose policies you vehemently disagree with. You are wholly at odds with his approach. Even you think he is a misguided fool.HYUFD said:
Of course Boris looks like a world leader, despite your dislike of him Boris is already up there with Churchill, Thatcher and Blair in his presence and recognition on the world stageTOPPING said:
Boris does not look like a world leader and he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with to boot. Why do you indulge him so?HYUFD said:
No, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal.TOPPING said:
Even though he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with. You still seem to revere him. Very strange. Quite admire Corbyn do you?HYUFD said:BBC News at 10 and ITV news leading on the Boris and Merkel language.
Ignoring the policy and backstop or any potential alternative copletely there is a real body language change between Boris and May. When May met Merkel Merkel was clearly the stronger and more confident party, with May more hunched and reserved, however today Boris looked confident and strong and spoke straight to camera and met Merkel on at least equal terms if not more
Seriously though there are only 3 UK PMs in my lifetime who have genuinely looked like world leaders and confident on the world stage, Thatcher, Blair and now Boris, with maybe Cameron halfway there. Boris is making his mark already0 -
Not if Brexit turns out to be bad news, he won’t, however cleverly he delivers it.rottenborough said:
If he pulls this off, he will be in Downing Street for a decade.IanB2 said:
Bozo’s reputation for hard work and attention to detail being legendary.Philip_Thompson said:
Good! We don't need a statesman, we need a grifter who will get this through.Zephyr said:
You would admit though, watching Boris at his press conference with Angela, he did appear gauche and unstatesmanlike?HYUFD said:
Yes and Merkel suggesting an alternative to the backstop could be found within 30 daysPhilip_Thompson said:
Elements of sanity entering the discussion.HYUFD said:
Funny how the backstop couldn't be replaced, there were no alternatives, it was absolutely fundamentally required . . . only to then say lets spend the next 30 days discussing its replacement.
Serious grown up politics entering the discussion. Well done Boris!
And interesting that it is Merkel - not Tusk or Varadkar - that was the one to go to, in order to make progress. The sheriff is calling the shots now, BMW no doubt have been in touch
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-494276740 -
Only if the Withdrawal Agreement had passed so we had delivered Brexit, the transition period requires Brexit first rememberTOPPING said:
Would you happily swallow an extension? Would be one of the most amusing things on PB if so.HYUFD said:
There have been rumours the Boris camp could extend the transition period to do precisely thatrcs1000 said:
He's right, they can. AND THEY ARE EXACTLY WHAT IS ENVISAGED IN THE WA/PD*.HYUFD said:
The point is that - realistically - the technology is going to take two to three years (not 14 months) to implement. The Backstop exists to bridge any gap.
The solution is a simple one: extend the transition period.
* This assumes there is no FTA which negates the need for border checks0 -
Meanwhile HS2 hangs in the balance according to Indie.
Yet WM Con mayor Street is doomed if it is canned.0 -
What? What happened to do or die?HYUFD said:
Only if the Withdrawal Agreement had passed so we had delivered Brexit, the transition period requires Brexit first rememberTOPPING said:
Would you happily swallow an extension? Would be one of the most amusing things on PB if so.HYUFD said:
There have been rumours the Boris camp could extend the transition period to do precisely thatrcs1000 said:
He's right, they can. AND THEY ARE EXACTLY WHAT IS ENVISAGED IN THE WA/PD*.HYUFD said:
The point is that - realistically - the technology is going to take two to three years (not 14 months) to implement. The Backstop exists to bridge any gap.
The solution is a simple one: extend the transition period.
* This assumes there is no FTA which negates the need for border checks0 -
Yes Boris is the most charismatic PM we have had since Blair, no questionrottenborough said:Whatever your political opinion on Johnson, he does at least look comfortable in his own skin being PM. He likes people.
The photos tonight in contrast to May's terrified social phobia look at every event are quite stark.0 -
We, of course, lease the island of Diego Garcia to the Americans.Charles said:
The fact that the lease existed in the first place establishes the principle that financial transactions for territory might be appropriate in some circumstancesTOPPING said:
It's not similarly at all. The lease expired. The idea of buying parts of countries is more than a little unusual. It is bizarre. As the whole planet apart from D Trump (and you?) seems to appreciate.Charles said:
I don’t have issue with it in principle. Of course it’s a little unusual in the modern era, but if - for example - the US were to pay us for exclusive use of say the Chagas Islands I’d be good with that.TOPPING said:
But in general you agree with countries trying to buy other countries' territories. Bizarre.Charles said:
Access to the Arctic is priceless.stodge said:
I just wonder what Trump would have paid for Greenland. Alaska was bought for only $120 million or so in today's money (roughly 2 cents per acre) which is incredible.Scott_P said:
Alaska is 586,000 square miles and Greenland is 836,000 square miles so about 140% of Alaska.
If I was Denmark, what would I accept? 100 billion kroner?
But of course Denmark couldn’t say that so came up with some PC nonsense instead
Similarly we were right to return the New Territories to China when our lease expired
I’ve not been the Greenland but I suspect if you offered the inhabitants the chance to become US citizens they would go for it0 -
No deal plan averted.williamglenn said:The Mail gets the best photo.
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1164288414872682496
Sell canned goods0 -
Corbyn is pretty charismatic. Still as much of a tosser as Boris.HYUFD said:
Yes Boris is the most charismatic PM we have had since Blair, no questionrottenborough said:Whatever your political opinion on Johnson, he does at least look comfortable in his own skin being PM. He likes people.
The photos tonight in contrast to May's terrified social phobia look at every event are quite stark.0 -
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Nothing, the transition period only happens once Brexit has been delivered with a Deal, though I still prefer No Deal to further delay of Brexit or revoke and remainTOPPING said:
What? What happened to do or die?HYUFD said:
Only if the Withdrawal Agreement had passed so we had delivered Brexit, the transition period requires Brexit first rememberTOPPING said:
Would you happily swallow an extension? Would be one of the most amusing things on PB if so.HYUFD said:
There have been rumours the Boris camp could extend the transition period to do precisely thatrcs1000 said:
He's right, they can. AND THEY ARE EXACTLY WHAT IS ENVISAGED IN THE WA/PD*.HYUFD said:
The point is that - realistically - the technology is going to take two to three years (not 14 months) to implement. The Backstop exists to bridge any gap.
The solution is a simple one: extend the transition period.
* This assumes there is no FTA which negates the need for border checks0 -
Show us your unicorns, Herr Johnson.HYUFD said:
Far from it, it is currently Boris with clear poll leads at home and able to direct Brexit in a manner that is most appealing to the voters he needs to win ie Brexit diehards and floating voters in the middle.SouthamObserver said:
Bless you. Merkel played Johnson today while doing the crossword and feeding the cat. His credulous response shows how easy it was. She gave him a deadline. He said thank-you.HYUFD said:
No, Boris has committed to find an alternative to the backstop showing he is doing everything he can to get the only Deal to get a majority through Parliament ie the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop as per the Brady Amendment, agreed with the EU.SouthamObserver said:Johnson has now set himself up to fail on two fronts:
1. Finding an alternative to the backstop.
2. Delivering a pain-free No Deal Brexit.
I know everything has changed in politics, but this doesn’t look smart. What am I missing?
If the EU refuses to help then he can show floating voters he pursued No Deal only as a last resort to deliver Brexit, not as his first choice (though Merkel seemed positive something could be done today)
Merkel is not as strong as she was and her party is barely able to keep ahead of the Greens in the latest German polls
Yes, Angela. Anything you say Angela. Thirty days, Angela? Thank-you so very much.
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Someone call the WhaaambulanceTheuniondivvie said:
Only with the promise that it would ensure continuing EU membership. That turned out well.TheScreamingEagles said:
A decision that was endorsed by the Scottish people in September 2014.Theuniondivvie said:
Ho, impecunious, fuckwitted aristos did that, comrade.SandyRentool said:
They've done that once already when they sold themselves to England.geoffw said:An independent Scotland could perhaps extricate itself from looming bankruptcy by offering itself for sale.
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HYUFD’s insanity seems to mirror Trump’s.Floater said:
Bloody hell, calm down that's a bit prematureHYUFD said:
Of course Boris looks like a world leader, despite your dislike of him Boris is already up there with Churchill, Thatcher and Blair in his presence and recognition on the world stageTOPPING said:
Boris does not look like a world leader and he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with to boot. Why do you indulge him so?HYUFD said:
No, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal.TOPPING said:
Even though he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with. You still seem to revere him. Very strange. Quite admire Corbyn do you?HYUFD said:BBC News at 10 and ITV news leading on the Boris and Merkel language.
Ignoring the policy and backstop or any potential alternative copletely there is a real body language change between Boris and May. When May met Merkel Merkel was clearly the stronger and more confident party, with May more hunched and reserved, however today Boris looked confident and strong and spoke straight to camera and met Merkel on at least equal terms if not more
Seriously though there are only 3 UK PMs in my lifetime who have genuinely looked like world leaders and confident on the world stage, Thatcher, Blair and now Boris, with maybe Cameron halfway there. Boris is making his mark already
Can we be sure they are not the same person?2 -
No you don't. You prefer to remain in the EU and to stay in the single market and the customs union.HYUFD said:
Nothing, the transition period only happens once Brexit has been delivered with a Deal, though I still prefer No Deal to further delay of Brexit or revoke and remainTOPPING said:
What? What happened to do or die?HYUFD said:
Only if the Withdrawal Agreement had passed so we had delivered Brexit, the transition period requires Brexit first rememberTOPPING said:
Would you happily swallow an extension? Would be one of the most amusing things on PB if so.HYUFD said:
There have been rumours the Boris camp could extend the transition period to do precisely thatrcs1000 said:
He's right, they can. AND THEY ARE EXACTLY WHAT IS ENVISAGED IN THE WA/PD*.HYUFD said:
The point is that - realistically - the technology is going to take two to three years (not 14 months) to implement. The Backstop exists to bridge any gap.
The solution is a simple one: extend the transition period.
* This assumes there is no FTA which negates the need for border checks
That is what you prefer.
Indeed not only do you prefer it you voted for it. And good for you, a man of reliable principles, that you did and still do think like that.0 -
No he isn't, Corbyn was mildly more charismatic than May, he is not even in the same league of charisma as Boris, nor intelligence either for that matterTOPPING said:
Corbyn is pretty charismatic. Still as much of a tosser as Boris.HYUFD said:
Yes Boris is the most charismatic PM we have had since Blair, no questionrottenborough said:Whatever your political opinion on Johnson, he does at least look comfortable in his own skin being PM. He likes people.
The photos tonight in contrast to May's terrified social phobia look at every event are quite stark.0 -
We lease the Chagos Islands to the Americans and don't care much about the sovereignty of the islanders. So selling places against the will of the inhabitants is still British policy.OblitusSumMe said:
Appropriate in the circumstances of the late 19th century, when the lease was established, perhaps. Not so much in the early 21st century.Charles said:
The fact that the lease existed in the first place establishes the principle that financial transactions for territory might be appropriate in some circumstancesTOPPING said:
It's not similarly at all. The lease expired. The idea of buying parts of countries is more than a little unusual. It is bizarre. As the whole planet apart from D Trump (and you?) seems to appreciate.Charles said:
I don’t have issue with it in principle. Of course it’s a little unusual in the modern era, but if - for example - the US were to pay us for exclusive use of say the Chagas Islands I’d be good with that.TOPPING said:
But in general you agree with countries trying to buy other countries' territories. Bizarre.Charles said:
Access to the Arctic is priceless.stodge said:
I just wonder what Trump would have paid for Greenland. Alaska was bought for only $120 million or so in today's money (roughly 2 cents per acre) which is incredible.Scott_P said:
Alaska is 586,000 square miles and Greenland is 836,000 square miles so about 140% of Alaska.
If I was Denmark, what would I accept? 100 billion kroner?
But of course Denmark couldn’t say that so came up with some PC nonsense instead
Similarly we were right to return the New Territories to China when our lease expired
I’ve not been the Greenland but I suspect if you offered the inhabitants the chance to become US citizens they would go for it0 -
OT. I am extremely saddened that this week looks to be the end of Bolton Wanderers (3 senior players, now no manager or assistant) and Bury (Friday deadline to stump up a large sum of money or be expelled from EFL. 8 players, but no games played this season).
2 venerable sporting institutions both past winners of the FA Cup. It is a long time since any league club was liquidated, now we could have two from the same area in short order.0 -
Both espouse policies you vehemently disagree with.HYUFD said:
No he isn't, Corbyn was mildly more charismatic than May, he is not even in the same league of charisma as Boris, nor intelligence either for that matterTOPPING said:
Corbyn is pretty charismatic. Still as much of a tosser as Boris.HYUFD said:
Yes Boris is the most charismatic PM we have had since Blair, no questionrottenborough said:Whatever your political opinion on Johnson, he does at least look comfortable in his own skin being PM. He likes people.
The photos tonight in contrast to May's terrified social phobia look at every event are quite stark.0 -
This Blue on Blue, Topping at HYUFD was boring at the start.3
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Go to bed then sunshine.JBriskinindyref2 said:This Blue on Blue, Topping at HYUFD was boring at the start.
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Biden. Already running against Trump, not the other Dems. And still available at 3.8.
https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/11642653584565125130 -
Okay, I retract, it was funny the first day. But I mean it's been weeks now...JBriskinindyref2 said:This Blue on Blue, Topping at HYUFD was boring at the start.
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Little chance of that - I've just logged on for the day. Time to see what the nightshift get up to I feel.TOPPING said:
Go to bed then sunshine.JBriskinindyref2 said:This Blue on Blue, Topping at HYUFD was boring at the start.
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Some people just won't listen...JBriskinindyref2 said:
Okay, I retract, it was funny the first day. But I mean it's been weeks now...JBriskinindyref2 said:This Blue on Blue, Topping at HYUFD was boring at the start.
But I am now taking my own advice and going to bed. A domain.0 -
It's not about policing but defending Europe. Germany's Army is of comparable size to the UK's.Alanbrooke said:
fair pointsmatthiasfromhamburg said:
but as has been pointed out Germany has no intention or capability to police Europe. It freeloads off the US and needs the apperance of the EU to leverage its position. It has now avoidably put itself in the position where iit will have to make major revisions to its position. Yugoslavia and Ukraine were acts forced on Germany by others, Brexit is entirely self inflicted.
Admittedly it can and will do more in the future, but allegations of "freeloading" are risible.
The US are spending above 4% of GDP not to defend Europe but on nonsense like Iraq and similar, which then creates other problems we have to deal with.
That's no contribution to European security.
The Bundeswehr doesnt have any useful capacity, van der Leyen screwed it up totally. Submarines that cant sail, planes that cant fly for lack of spare parts, armour that rusts in its garages. Militarily Germany is not a reliable partner .
A little harsh, but not entirely unfair.
Some parts of the German military are in a lamentable state indeed, others not so much.
Overall, I think its fair to say, roughly on par with their British counterparts.
We're both lagging behind the French somewhat. What does that say?0 -
A flawless victory in the no-deal blame game for both Boris and Merkel: BLAME THE FRENCH.rottenborough said:0 -
Not to mention ejaculatory.Floater said:
Bloody hell, calm down that's a bit prematureHYUFD said:
Of course Boris looks like a world leader, despite your dislike of him Boris is already up there with Churchill, Thatcher and Blair in his presence and recognition on the world stageTOPPING said:
Boris does not look like a world leader and he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with to boot. Why do you indulge him so?HYUFD said:
No, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal.TOPPING said:
Even though he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with. You still seem to revere him. Very strange. Quite admire Corbyn do you?HYUFD said:BBC News at 10 and ITV news leading on the Boris and Merkel language.
Ignoring the policy and backstop or any potential alternative copletely there is a real body language change between Boris and May. When May met Merkel Merkel was clearly the stronger and more confident party, with May more hunched and reserved, however today Boris looked confident and strong and spoke straight to camera and met Merkel on at least equal terms if not more
Seriously though there are only 3 UK PMs in my lifetime who have genuinely looked like world leaders and confident on the world stage, Thatcher, Blair and now Boris, with maybe Cameron halfway there. Boris is making his mark already0 -
A good value lay IMO.rottenborough said:Biden. Already running against Trump, not the other Dems. And still available at 3.8.
https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/11642653584565125130 -
Late night divvie eh?Theuniondivvie said:
Not to mention ejaculatory.Floater said:
Bloody hell, calm down that's a bit prematureHYUFD said:
Of course Boris looks like a world leader, despite your dislike of him Boris is already up there with Churchill, Thatcher and Blair in his presence and recognition on the world stageTOPPING said:
Boris does not look like a world leader and he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with to boot. Why do you indulge him so?HYUFD said:
No, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal.TOPPING said:
Even though he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with. You still seem to revere him. Very strange. Quite admire Corbyn do you?HYUFD said:BBC News at 10 and ITV news leading on the Boris and Merkel language.
Ignoring the policy and backstop or any potential alternative copletely there is a real body language change between Boris and May. When May met Merkel Merkel was clearly the stronger and more confident party, with May more hunched and reserved, however today Boris looked confident and strong and spoke straight to camera and met Merkel on at least equal terms if not more
Seriously though there are only 3 UK PMs in my lifetime who have genuinely looked like world leaders and confident on the world stage, Thatcher, Blair and now Boris, with maybe Cameron halfway there. Boris is making his mark already
Why are you called Union divvie when you're anti-union. You used to be DevoMax didnt' you?
Both very silly names but don't worry I always had you down as CYBERNAT0 -
I did suggest earlier that recent days proved he needed an intervention.Byronic said:My god.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/21/trump-press-conference-greenland-jewish-democrats?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I believe Trump is, now, demonstrably and obviously demented.
Which is something I've never thought before, (there have been far worse Presidents recently in terms of actual, practical havoc wreaking as opposed to bollock speaking).
Was told I was falling into his cunning plan to distract from bad news by winding up Liberals.
Fact is. I've always seen through that ploy. This isn't that. This isn't firing up his base, or bashing the SJWs, this is incoherent nonsense.
For the first time, I fear the President is genuinely unhinged.0 -
Better not get too tetchy then if I am the most powerful man in the worldGardenwalker said:
HYUFD’s insanity seems to mirror Trump’s.Floater said:
Bloody hell, calm down that's a bit prematureHYUFD said:
Of course Boris looks like a world leader, despite your dislike of him Boris is already up there with Churchill, Thatcher and Blair in his presence and recognition on the world stageTOPPING said:
Boris does not look like a world leader and he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with to boot. Why do you indulge him so?HYUFD said:
No, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal.TOPPING said:
Even though he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with. You still seem to revere him. Very strange. Quite admire Corbyn do you?HYUFD said:BBC News at 10 and ITV news leading on the Boris and Merkel language.
Ignoring the policy and backstop or any potential alternative copletely there is a real body language change between Boris and May. When May met Merkel Merkel was clearly the stronger and more confident party, with May more hunched and reserved, however today Boris looked confident and strong and spoke straight to camera and met Merkel on at least equal terms if not more
Seriously though there are only 3 UK PMs in my lifetime who have genuinely looked like world leaders and confident on the world stage, Thatcher, Blair and now Boris, with maybe Cameron halfway there. Boris is making his mark already
Can we be sure they are not the same person?0 -
Lol 30 days to solve an issue that took 100 years or so to fix last time?0
-
There are no good solutions available thanks to Brexit.. "Vassal State" at least limits the damageFloater said:About that backstop.....
Just out of interest those remainers who have been swooning over the approaching end of days, will you accept it if we leave with a revised deal?0 -
Unfortunately the system relies on the US administration Cabinet doing something and they are all picked by Trump.dixiedean said:
I did suggest earlier that recent days proved he needed an intervention.Byronic said:My god.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/21/trump-press-conference-greenland-jewish-democrats?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I believe Trump is, now, demonstrably and obviously demented.
Which is something I've never thought before, (there have been far worse Presidents recently in terms of actual, practical havoc wreaking as opposed to bollock speaking).
Was told I was falling into his cunning plan to distract from bad news by winding up Liberals.
Fact is. I've always seen through that ploy. This isn't that. This isn't firing up his base, or bashing the SJWs, this is incoherent nonsense.
For the first time, I fear the President is genuinely unhinged.0 -
No I don't, I now back leaving the EU and single market and customs union and ending free movement and doing our own trade deals, in a decade or so I might consider rejoining the single market once immigration is under control but not the full EU now, especially as we might lose the opt outs we had when I voted Remain anywayTOPPING said:
No you don't. You prefer to remain in the EU and to stay in the single market and the customs union.HYUFD said:
Nothing, the transition period only happens once Brexit has been delivered with a Deal, though I still prefer No Deal to further delay of Brexit or revoke and remainTOPPING said:
What? What happened to do or die?HYUFD said:
Only if the Withdrawal Agreement had passed so we had delivered Brexit, the transition period requires Brexit first rememberTOPPING said:
Would you happily swallow an extension? Would be one of the most amusing things on PB if so.HYUFD said:
There have been rumours the Boris camp could extend the transition period to do precisely thatrcs1000 said:
He's right, they can. AND THEY ARE EXACTLY WHAT IS ENVISAGED IN THE WA/PD*.HYUFD said:
The point is that - realistically - the technology is going to take two to three years (not 14 months) to implement. The Backstop exists to bridge any gap.
The solution is a simple one: extend the transition period.
* This assumes there is no FTA which negates the need for border checks
That is what you prefer.
Indeed not only do you prefer it you voted for it. And good for you, a man of reliable principles, that you did and still do think like that.0 -
Divvie too slow - I'm off to bed0
-
We shall see. I have just topped up a few quid.Foxy said:
A good value lay IMO.rottenborough said:Biden. Already running against Trump, not the other Dems. And still available at 3.8.
https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/11642653584565125130 -
Vassal state would be ok you think?FF43 said:
There are no good solutions available thanks to Brexit.. "Vassal State" at least limits the damageFloater said:About that backstop.....
Just out of interest those remainers who have been swooning over the approaching end of days, will you accept it if we leave with a revised deal?
Not a lot I can say - seek help0 -
You can put postwar PMs in 4 categories in terms of charisma and presence on the world stage.Theuniondivvie said:
Not to mention ejaculatory.Floater said:
Bloody hell, calm down that's a bit prematureHYUFD said:
Of course Boris looks like a world leader, despite your dislike of him Boris is already up there with Churchill, Thatcher and Blair in his presence and recognition on the world stageTOPPING said:
Boris does not look like a world leader and he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with to boot. Why do you indulge him so?HYUFD said:
No, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal.TOPPING said:
Even though he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with. You still seem to revere him. Very strange. Quite admire Corbyn do you?HYUFD said:BBC News at 10 and ITV news leading on the Boris and Merkel language.
Ignoring the policy and backstop or any potential alternative copletely there is a real body language change between Boris and May. When May met Merkel Merkel was clearly the stronger and more confident party, with May more hunched and reserved, however today Boris looked confident and strong and spoke straight to camera and met Merkel on at least equal terms if not more
Seriously though there are only 3 UK PMs in my lifetime who have genuinely looked like world leaders and confident on the world stage, Thatcher, Blair and now Boris, with maybe Cameron halfway there. Boris is making his mark already
Top tier Churchill, Thatcher, Blair
Second tier Attlee (albeit top tier for getting his domestic agenda through), Macmillan, Wilson, Cameron
Third tier Home, Heath, Callaghan, Major
Last tier Eden, Brown and May.
Boris certainly has the potential to be top tier and certainly at least second tier0 -
Something most right minded people around the world can live with.Drutt said:
A flawless victory in the no-deal blame game for both Boris and Merkel: BLAME THE FRENCH.rottenborough said:0 -
I see that the field is thinning out, 10 so far for the next debate. I think Warren will be the candidate.rottenborough said:
We shall see. I have just topped up a few quid.Foxy said:
A good value lay IMO.rottenborough said:Biden. Already running against Trump, not the other Dems. And still available at 3.8.
https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/1164265358456512513
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/abc-news-announces-details-democratic-primary-debate/story?id=650773210 -
And something very easy to do here. Barnier demanded too much from the UK and now Macron is refusing to compromise even slightly. I don't see how No Deal is avoided at this point.Floater said:
Something most right minded people around the world can live with.Drutt said:
A flawless victory in the no-deal blame game for both Boris and Merkel: BLAME THE FRENCH.rottenborough said:0 -
That is sad.dixiedean said:OT. I am extremely saddened that this week looks to be the end of Bolton Wanderers (3 senior players, now no manager or assistant) and Bury (Friday deadline to stump up a large sum of money or be expelled from EFL. 8 players, but no games played this season).
2 venerable sporting institutions both past winners of the FA Cup. It is a long time since any league club was liquidated, now we could have two from the same area in short order.
My love affair with the mighty Gillingham (no sniggering at the back) started after a newspaper appeal for people to go watch them as they were on verge of going under.0 -
I didn't vote for it. You did.Floater said:
Vassal state would be ok you think?FF43 said:
There are no good solutions available thanks to Brexit.. "Vassal State" at least limits the damageFloater said:About that backstop.....
Just out of interest those remainers who have been swooning over the approaching end of days, will you accept it if we leave with a revised deal?
Not a lot I can say - seek help0 -
Indeed. Some of us expend precisely zero effort!Theuniondivvie said:
Shocking to think that someone might create a sock puppet persona. Of course some expend more effort on this than others.Byronic said:
Colour me a tiny bit skeptical as to whether you are really Matthias from Hamburg, an average German guy who just happens to be wandering onto a British political blog. But, also, colour me intrigued. Subterfuge is fun.matthiasfromhamburg said:
Being half way informed on British politics seems neither odd nor impressive to me, I guess I was just born curious.Byronic said:
You are oddly well informed on British politics. Impressive. May we know why, approximately? - there is no obligation to identify yourself with detail, if you prefer not to.matthiasfromhamburg said:
Correct. Mr. Johnson has indeed said what Shankar Singham's AAC prompted him to say.HYUFD said:
Do you really believe that him saying it makes these things come true?
And, of course, there's no obligation to identify oneselves with detail, "Mr. Byronic" (or "Mr. Tremayne?")
Also, ich bin nicht er.0 -
Both Barnier and Macron are French of course and the French vetoed our entry in the first place under De Gaulle.Gabs2 said:
And something very easy to do here. Barnier demanded too much from the UK and now Macron is refusing to compromise even slightly. I don't see how No Deal is avoided at this point.Floater said:
Something most right minded people around the world can live with.Drutt said:
A flawless victory in the no-deal blame game for both Boris and Merkel: BLAME THE FRENCH.rottenborough said:
The French being a Catholic and Latin people have always considered us a Protestant Anglo Saxon nation with more in common with the USA and the Anglosphere than continental Europe. Germany of course being a fellow Protestant Anglo Saxon nation has always been more supportive of our EU membership0 -
The Right HonourableHYUFD said:
You can put postwar PMs in 4 categories in terms of charisma and presence on the world stage.Theuniondivvie said:
Not to mention ejaculatory.Floater said:
Bloody hell, calm down that's a bit prematureHYUFD said:
Of course Boris looks like a world leader, despite your dislike of him Boris is already up there with Churchill, Thatcher and Blair in his presence and recognition on the world stageTOPPING said:
Boris does not look like a world leader and he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with to boot. Why do you indulge him so?HYUFD said:
No, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal.TOPPING said:
Even though he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with. You still seem to revere him. Very strange. Quite admire Corbyn do you?HYUFD said:BBC News at 10 and ITV news leading on the Boris and Merkel language.
Ignoring the policy and backstop or any potential alternative copletely there is a real body language change between Boris and May. When May met Merkel Merkel was clearly the stronger and more confident party, with May more hunched and reserved, however today Boris looked confident and strong and spoke straight to camera and met Merkel on at least equal terms if not more
Seriously though there are only 3 UK PMs in my lifetime who have genuinely looked like world leaders and confident on the world stage, Thatcher, Blair and now Boris, with maybe Cameron halfway there. Boris is making his mark already
Top tier Churchill, Thatcher, Blair
Second tier Attlee (albeit top tier for getting his domestic agenda through), Macmillan, Wilson, Cameron
Third tier Home, Heath, Callaghan, Major
Last tier Eden, Brown and May.
Boris certainly has the potential to be top tier and certainly at least second tier
Boris Johnson
MP
Assumed office
23 July 2019
I think premature and ejaculatory covers it.
So to speak.0 -
HYUFD said:
BBC News at 10 and ITV news leading on the Boris and Merkel meeting.
Ignoring the policy and backstop or any potential alternative completely there is a real body language change between Boris and May. When May met Merkel Merkel was clearly the stronger and more confident party, with May more hunched and tentative and reserved, however today Boris looked confident and strong and spoke straight to camera and met Merkel on at least equal terms if not more
For crying out loud man, take a cold shower.0 -
Anyway, I don't think Merkel does think a solution can be found in 30 days. I think what she meant is that she is agnostic about the backstop. I believe she said the backstop isn't up to her, negotiations would be run as a common approach through the EU and it has to work for Ireland.0
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Yes. Many of my friends at school were Wanderers or Shakers fans. To lose them both will be a hammer blow to individuals and communities. Love affair is correct.Floater said:
That is sad.dixiedean said:OT. I am extremely saddened that this week looks to be the end of Bolton Wanderers (3 senior players, now no manager or assistant) and Bury (Friday deadline to stump up a large sum of money or be expelled from EFL. 8 players, but no games played this season).
2 venerable sporting institutions both past winners of the FA Cup. It is a long time since any league club was liquidated, now we could have two from the same area in short order.
My love affair with the mighty Gillingham (no sniggering at the back) started after a newspaper appeal for people to go watch them as they were on verge of going under.0 -
With all the things Trump has been coming out with today - odd even for him - can the 25th Amendment be long delayed?
0 -
Your analysis is correct on both counts.dixiedean said:
I did suggest earlier that recent days proved he needed an intervention.Byronic said:My god.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/21/trump-press-conference-greenland-jewish-democrats?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I believe Trump is, now, demonstrably and obviously demented.
Which is something I've never thought before, (there have been far worse Presidents recently in terms of actual, practical havoc wreaking as opposed to bollock speaking).
Was told I was falling into his cunning plan to distract from bad news by winding up Liberals.
Fact is. I've always seen through that ploy. This isn't that. This isn't firing up his base, or bashing the SJWs, this is incoherent nonsense.
For the first time, I fear the President is genuinely unhinged.
1. There have been far worse (simply because Trumpton is a lazy twat with no agency, so has done fuck all)
2. He’s doolally
0 -
Reckon you are right. Although Attlee is probably Sui Generis. He'd be bottom tier on charisma, but, as the midwife to our atomic bomb, probably first tier in world stage terms.HYUFD said:
You can put postwar PMs in 4 categories in terms of charisma and presence on the world stage.Theuniondivvie said:
Not to mention ejaculatory.Floater said:
Bloody hell, calm down that's a bit prematureHYUFD said:
Of course Boris looks like a world leader, despite your dislike of him Boris is already up there with Churchill, Thatcher and Blair in his presence and recognition on the world stageTOPPING said:
Boris does not look like a world leader and he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with to boot. Why do you indulge him so?HYUFD said:
No, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal.TOPPING said:
Even though he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with. You still seem to revere him. Very strange. Quite admire Corbyn do you?HYUFD said:BBC News at 10 and ITV news leading on the Boris and Merkel language.
Ignoring the policy and backstop or any potential alternative copletely there is a real body language change between Boris and May. When May met Merkel Merkel was clearly the stronger and more confident party, with May more hunched and reserved, however today Boris looked confident and strong and spoke straight to camera and met Merkel on at least equal terms if not more
Seriously though there are only 3 UK PMs in my lifetime who have genuinely looked like world leaders and confident on the world stage, Thatcher, Blair and now Boris, with maybe Cameron halfway there. Boris is making his mark already
Top tier Churchill, Thatcher, Blair
Second tier Attlee (albeit top tier for getting his domestic agenda through), Macmillan, Wilson, Cameron
Third tier Home, Heath, Callaghan, Major
Last tier Eden, Brown and May.
Boris certainly has the potential to be top tier and certainly at least second tier
Boris has many, many months, if not years to go before he gets a ranking.0 -
Yes, but in the late 19th century the peoples of land transferred in such a way were not able to take their case to the British courts, or to win support at the UN to censure such transfers.Foxy said:
We lease the Chagos Islands to the Americans and don't care much about the sovereignty of the islanders. So selling places against the will of the inhabitants is still British policy.OblitusSumMe said:
Appropriate in the circumstances of the late 19th century, when the lease was established, perhaps. Not so much in the early 21st century.Charles said:
The fact that the lease existed in the first place establishes the principle that financial transactions for territory might be appropriate in some circumstancesTOPPING said:
It's not similarly at all. The lease expired. The idea of buying parts of countries is more than a little unusual. It is bizarre. As the whole planet apart from D Trump (and you?) seems to appreciate.Charles said:
I don’t have issue with it in principle. Of course it’s a little unusual in the modern era, but if - for example - the US were to pay us for exclusive use of say the Chagas Islands I’d be good with that.TOPPING said:
But in general you agree with countries trying to buy other countries' territories. Bizarre.Charles said:
Access to the Arctic is priceless.stodge said:
I just wonder what Trump would have paid for Greenland. Alaska was bought for only $120 million or so in today's money (roughly 2 cents per acre) which is incredible.Scott_P said:
Alaska is 586,000 square miles and Greenland is 836,000 square miles so about 140% of Alaska.
If I was Denmark, what would I accept? 100 billion kroner?
But of course Denmark couldn’t say that so came up with some PC nonsense instead
Similarly we were right to return the New Territories to China when our lease expired
I’ve not been the Greenland but I suspect if you offered the inhabitants the chance to become US citizens they would go for it
There seems a clear change in the context.0 -
Surely there must be some locals with sufficient funds and love for their teams to get behind the clubs? Or is the cost of ownership now just too astronomical.dixiedean said:OT. I am extremely saddened that this week looks to be the end of Bolton Wanderers (3 senior players, now no manager or assistant) and Bury (Friday deadline to stump up a large sum of money or be expelled from EFL. 8 players, but no games played this season).
2 venerable sporting institutions both past winners of the FA Cup. It is a long time since any league club was liquidated, now we could have two from the same area in short order.0 -
Attlee belongs in the first tier on policy impact grounds but not charisma and global presence groundsdixiedean said:
Reckon you are right. Although Attlee is probably Sui Generis. He'd be bottom tier on charisma, but, as the midwife to our atomic bomb, probably first tier in world stage terms.HYUFD said:
You can put postwar PMs in 4 categories in terms of charisma and presence on the world stage.Theuniondivvie said:
Not to mention ejaculatory.Floater said:
Bloody hell, calm down that's a bit prematureHYUFD said:
Of course Boris looks like a world leader, despite your dislike of him Boris is already up there with Churchill, Thatcher and Blair in his presence and recognition on the world stageTOPPING said:
Boris does not look like a world leader and he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with to boot. Why do you indulge him so?HYUFD said:
No, I back Brexit Deal or No Deal.TOPPING said:
Even though he is pursuing a policy that you vehemently disagree with. You still seem to revere him. Very strange. Quite admire Corbyn do you?HYUFD said:BBC News at 10 and ITV news leading on the Boris and Merkel language.
Ignoring the policy and backstop or any potential alternative copletely there is a real body language change between Boris and May. When May met Merkel Merkel was clearly the stronger and more confident party, with May more hunched and reserved, however today Boris looked confident and strong and spoke straight to camera and met Merkel on at least equal terms if not more
Seriously though there are only 3 UK PMs in my lifetime who have genuinely looked like world leaders and confident on the world stage, Thatcher, Blair and now Boris, with maybe Cameron halfway there. Boris is making his mark already
Top tier Churchill, Thatcher, Blair
Second tier Attlee (albeit top tier for getting his domestic agenda through), Macmillan, Wilson, Cameron
Third tier Home, Heath, Callaghan, Major
Last tier Eden, Brown and May.
Boris certainly has the potential to be top tier and certainly at least second tier
Boris has many, many months, if not years to go before he gets a ranking.0 -
It's a 30 day chance more than May ever got....FF43 said:Anyway, I don't think Merkel does think a solution can be found in 30 days. I think what she meant is that she is agnostic about the backstop. I believe she said the backstop isn't up to her, negotiations would be run as a common approach through the EU and it has to work for Ireland.
Of course, if Boris does pull a rabbit out a hat -
* Crikey! I wondered where that vibrator had gone....*
- then the last two years of May dicking about will have been demonstrated to be the worst period for both government and civil service in recent history. Blair and Iraq aside, the worst for a very long time.0 -
-
The level of debt is astronomical. Bolton have had £150m of debt written off by Eddie Davies their former owner. Easily serviceable when they were in the PL. This dates back to the sale of Burnden Park, a walkable town centre location on the cheap, and a move 8 miles out of town at exactly the wrong time. A big, retail park in the late 90s. Just before Online shopping.ExiledInScotland said:
Surely there must be some locals with sufficient funds and love for their teams to get behind the clubs? Or is the cost of ownership now just too astronomical.dixiedean said:OT. I am extremely saddened that this week looks to be the end of Bolton Wanderers (3 senior players, now no manager or assistant) and Bury (Friday deadline to stump up a large sum of money or be expelled from EFL. 8 players, but no games played this season).
2 venerable sporting institutions both past winners of the FA Cup. It is a long time since any league club was liquidated, now we could have two from the same area in short order.0 -
0
-
Germany is a Protestant nation? Bayern says hello.HYUFD said:
Both Barnier and Macron are French of course and the French vetoed our entry in the first place under De Gaulle.Gabs2 said:
And something very easy to do here. Barnier demanded too much from the UK and now Macron is refusing to compromise even slightly. I don't see how No Deal is avoided at this point.Floater said:
Something most right minded people around the world can live with.Drutt said:
A flawless victory in the no-deal blame game for both Boris and Merkel: BLAME THE FRENCH.rottenborough said:
The French being a Catholic and Latin people have always considered us a Protestant Anglo Saxon nation with more in common with the USA and the Anglosphere than continental Europe. Germany of course being a fellow Protestant Anglo Saxon nation has always been more supportive of our EU membership0 -
Bayern says Grüß Gott.dixiedean said:
Germany is a Protestant nation? Bayern says hello.HYUFD said:
Both Barnier and Macron are French of course and the French vetoed our entry in the first place under De Gaulle.Gabs2 said:
And something very easy to do here. Barnier demanded too much from the UK and now Macron is refusing to compromise even slightly. I don't see how No Deal is avoided at this point.Floater said:
Something most right minded people around the world can live with.Drutt said:
A flawless victory in the no-deal blame game for both Boris and Merkel: BLAME THE FRENCH.rottenborough said:
The French being a Catholic and Latin people have always considered us a Protestant Anglo Saxon nation with more in common with the USA and the Anglosphere than continental Europe. Germany of course being a fellow Protestant Anglo Saxon nation has always been more supportive of our EU membership0 -
When Germany was first created by Bismarck in 1871 it was 2/3 Protestant and 1/3 Catholic and even then Bavaria was majority Catholic so that does not change the pointdixiedean said:
Germany is a Protestant nation? Bayern says hello.HYUFD said:
Both Barnier and Macron are French of course and the French vetoed our entry in the first place under De Gaulle.Gabs2 said:
And something very easy to do here. Barnier demanded too much from the UK and now Macron is refusing to compromise even slightly. I don't see how No Deal is avoided at this point.Floater said:
Something most right minded people around the world can live with.Drutt said:
A flawless victory in the no-deal blame game for both Boris and Merkel: BLAME THE FRENCH.rottenborough said:
The French being a Catholic and Latin people have always considered us a Protestant Anglo Saxon nation with more in common with the USA and the Anglosphere than continental Europe. Germany of course being a fellow Protestant Anglo Saxon nation has always been more supportive of our EU membership0 -
The strong and stable bit still makes me smile. Wonder if it'll work better for him than it did for TM.rottenborough said:Biden. Already running against Trump, not the other Dems. And still available at 3.8.
https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/11642653584565125130 -
Probably an unpopular point, but why _shouldnt_ countries buy and sell territory? Especially underpopulated territory.
If i lived in greenland i might feel flattered by the attention.1 -
Well you would be putting contract law/international treaty law into direct conflict with the right of self-determination, as enshrined in the UN charter.edb said:Probably an unpopular point, but why _shouldnt_ countries buy and sell territory? Especially underpopulated territory.
If i lived in greenland i might feel flattered by the attention.
This doesn't seem like a sensible idea.0 -
Offer the locals a million bucks each to become the 51st State. It would be a mere $56 billion. Bugger all for that much real estate.edb said:Probably an unpopular point, but why _shouldnt_ countries buy and sell territory? Especially underpopulated territory.
If i lived in greenland i might feel flattered by the attention.
Then see how they vote.....1 -
Not saying they shouldnt get a say, or that this particular one is a good idea. It should be mutual. But "self determination" is actually a lot more nebulous than its proponents would like to admit. Most borders are essentially accidents of history. Noone in greenland chose to be ruled by denmark rather than, say, Peru.1
-
Indeed. Trump just lost the Senate in a flash.MarqueeMark said:
Offer the locals a million bucks each to become the 51st State. It would be a mere $56 billion. Bugger all for that much real estate.edb said:Probably an unpopular point, but why _shouldnt_ countries buy and sell territory? Especially underpopulated territory.
If i lived in greenland i might feel flattered by the attention.
Then see how they vote.....0 -
Is the Church of England Protestant? Most. Protestants don't consider it to be so. It is Anglo-Catholic at best.HYUFD said:
When Germany was first created by Bismarck in 1871 it was 2/3 Protestant and 1/3 Catholic and even then Bavaria was majority Catholic so that does not change the pointdixiedean said:
Germany is a Protestant nation? Bayern says hello.HYUFD said:
Both Barnier and Macron are French of course and the French vetoed our entry in the first place under De Gaulle.Gabs2 said:
And something very easy to do here. Barnier demanded too much from the UK and now Macron is refusing to compromise even slightly. I don't see how No Deal is avoided at this point.Floater said:
Something most right minded people around the world can live with.Drutt said:
A flawless victory in the no-deal blame game for both Boris and Merkel: BLAME THE FRENCH.rottenborough said:
The French being a Catholic and Latin people have always considered us a Protestant Anglo Saxon nation with more in common with the USA and the Anglosphere than continental Europe. Germany of course being a fellow Protestant Anglo Saxon nation has always been more supportive of our EU membership0 -
Fwiw, I think, that she thinks, that basically the only solution is the one already on the table.FF43 said:Anyway, I don't think Merkel does think a solution can be found in 30 days. I think what she meant is that she is agnostic about the backstop. I believe she said the backstop isn't up to her, negotiations would be run as a common approach through the EU and it has to work for Ireland.
Even after a reformulation (after another extension) the effect of the legal mechanics needs to be the same, i.e. allowing Ireland at the same time an open border with NI and the rest of the EU.
I think she herself would favour a solution that has been proposed by HUYFD, I believe, NI referendum on the backstop and bribing the DUP to complain about the border in the Irish Sea a little less loudly.
But I doubt that she will want to play a visibly active role. Her last significant intervention in the process occurred when Elmar Brook succeeded in persuading her to trust Mrs. May's reassurances, that the widening of the backstop to all of the UK would enable her to outmanoeuvre the DUP.
Having promoted a positive response to Mrs. May's request among her peers, the subsequent failure of Mrs. May to effectively "sell" it as the valuable, generous and significant concession that it was to her domestic audience, made Mrs. Merkel's use of influence appear in hindsight as an unfortunate misallocation of political capital.
I think she will be reluctant to invest too much in Mr. Johnson.0 -
I'm not being an arse, I like Angela Merkel, think she's a fine stateswoman, and wish her abundant health and a long and active political life. However, her health is a subject of interest, and the choice to be seated is potentially an indication she's not back up to full strength.StuartDickson said:
What an arse. We’ll see how you cope with being old.Luckyguy1983 said:
Is she seated due to her recent wobbliness?Endillion said:
She's changed her position. She's said she's willing to discuss alternatives to the backstop. What more do you think Johnson wants at this point?Scott_P said:Ben Swain on tour...
https://twitter.com/paul__johnson/status/11642082692856258570 -
IMO what we need is a return to the "soft liberalism" of the 1990s. The problem is that almost no-one is advocating that at the moment.0
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Crimea was virtually inevitable since the twin idiocies of Kosovo and Iraq.Alanbrooke said:
the period is indeed remarkable but lets not pretend thgere isnt any fighting, Basically Europe rolls over every time theres shooting, Crimea, then the Ukraine. Germany and France arent going to do anything except hide behing the US.
But how can you square support for Brexit with a desire to see a bit more backbone to European collective defence? Brexit is Putin's single biggest foreign policy win in Europe.
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Greenland would probably be a US Territory like Puerto Rico so no eligibility for the Senate (or the House)dixiedean said:
Indeed. Trump just lost the Senate in a flash.MarqueeMark said:
Offer the locals a million bucks each to become the 51st State. It would be a mere $56 billion. Bugger all for that much real estate.edb said:Probably an unpopular point, but why _shouldnt_ countries buy and sell territory? Especially underpopulated territory.
If i lived in greenland i might feel flattered by the attention.
Then see how they vote.....0 -
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So, a bit like the relationship between Northern Ireland and the EU under the backstopnot_on_fire said:
Greenland would probably be a US Territory like Puerto Rico so no eligibility for the Senate (or the House)dixiedean said:
Indeed. Trump just lost the Senate in a flash.MarqueeMark said:
Offer the locals a million bucks each to become the 51st State. It would be a mere $56 billion. Bugger all for that much real estate.edb said:Probably an unpopular point, but why _shouldnt_ countries buy and sell territory? Especially underpopulated territory.
If i lived in greenland i might feel flattered by the attention.
Then see how they vote.....
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LONDON (Reuters) - Britain and South Korea will sign a continuity Free Trade Agreement on Thursday to allow businesses to keep trading freely after Brexit at the end of October, the British government said.
Britain has been seeking to replicate EU-trade agreements with third countries ahead of its planned departure from the bloc but many had stalled over the uncertainty about if and when Brexit would happen after it was delayed earlier this year.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-trade-korea/uk-and-south-korea-to-sign-post-brexit-continuity-trade-deal-idUKKCN1VB2I90 -
If you were running the No campaign for a US takeover of Greenland you'd simply send a copy of a US tax form to every household and explain that they'd have to file it forever even if they left the US / Greenland.Charles said:
The fact that the lease existed in the first place establishes the principle that financial transactions for territory might be appropriate in some circumstances
I’ve not been the Greenland but I suspect if you offered the inhabitants the chance to become US citizens they would go for it1 -
If Trump can portray Antifa and similar organisations as the biggest threat to the USA, he wins the next election. At the moment, they're making it very easy for him. Most Americans must be wondering: why don't the Portland police do anything about their violent protests.0
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I saw a clever "Fake News" description of AntiFA as "Anti First Amendment"AndyJS said:If Trump can portray Antifa and similar organisations as the biggest threat to the USA, he wins the next election. At the moment, they're making it very easy for him. Most Americans must be wondering: why don't the Portland police do anything about their violent protests.
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Come to think of it, it's a bit puzzling that Trump doesn't put more indirect pressure on the police in Portland to do something about Antifa's violent antics. Maybe he's being very Machiavellian and deliberately not doing so, in the knowledge that their behaviour only adds to his support in the run up to next year's election.0
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Ooops! "30 Days" is all over the front pages.....
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1164246937543028737?s=200 -
So the outlook seems to be:
* September 3 to September 12: Rebels try to get control of the agenda to pass legislation to constrain Boris
* Rest of September: Party conferences, nothing happens
* Late September: It become clear Boris does / doesn't have anything to propose to the EU side
* Early Oct: If still headed for No Deal, frantic GoNAfaE things
* Deadline: Oct 17/18 Council of Ministers meeting
* Up until end Oct: In theory you could call the Council of Ministers together for an emergency meeting but it may be too late0
