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  • justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    It would be good to know the fieldwork dates for this poll. As it stands, it represents a swing of 1.75% to Con from Lab compared with 2017 and would result in 19 Tory gains from Labour on basis of UNS. However, there would also be 14 LibDem gains from the Tories as a result of a 12% swing from Con to LibDem. No information re-SNP . Labour losses likely to be lower due to first term incumbency boosts in 13 of the 19 seats affected
    I do admire your blind faith in labour
    With great respect Big G, I am simply interpreting the figures as published! Faith does not enter into it.
    Do you accept that every poll (13) since Boris became PM shows a conservative lead of upto 10% from all pollsters apart from Com Res at the end of July, which had a labour lead of 1%
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    justin124 said:

    It would be good to know the fieldwork dates for this poll. As it stands, it represents a swing of 1.75% to Con from Lab compared with 2017 and would result in 19 Tory gains from Labour on basis of UNS. However, there would also be 14 LibDem gains from the Tories as a result of a 12% swing from Con to LibDem. No information re-SNP . Labour losses likely to be lower due to first term incumbency boosts in 13 of the 19 seats affected
    Why an incumbency bonus? These new Labour MPs have failed to deliver on their promise - to implement Brexit. Complete failure to deliver on their promise.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Cicero said:

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Ah, yes, the great Brexit prediction game. That one where everyone has got so much right over the last 3 years. I think you underestimate how pissed off the EU are with our pissing about.

    It takes two to tango.

    We're quite pissed off with their pissing about too.
    Whatever. They’re justified given how we fail to appreciate how our appalling genocidal behaviour in Ireland over 800 years made their demands for the “backstop” so inevitable. Either way it’s going to be very hard for us to live or work anywhere outside England in the future. Our loss more than theirs.
    And here I was thinking the backstop was about protecting the single market.
    It’s to protect free movement into and out of a historically disputed territory because they, justifiably, don’t trust us as far as they can throw us
    Your arse-licking love of the EU is absurd. They’re tired of us “pissing about”?!

    Perhaps we are “pissing about” because the EU has offered us a deal so bad it feels better to Remain. And why have the EU done that? Because that was their intention all along, as admitted by their lead Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, who told a French newspaper at the start “I will have done my job if the exit terms are so bad the British would prefer to stay”

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1087110446484779008?s=20
    The Daily Telegraph makes more stuff up.
    You are the peddlar of false news here.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    It would be good to know the fieldwork dates for this poll. As it stands, it represents a swing of 1.75% to Con from Lab compared with 2017 and would result in 19 Tory gains from Labour on basis of UNS. However, there would also be 14 LibDem gains from the Tories as a result of a 12% swing from Con to LibDem. No information re-SNP . Labour losses likely to be lower due to first term incumbency boosts in 13 of the 19 seats affected
    I do admire your blind faith in labour
    With great respect Big G, I am simply interpreting the figures as published! Faith does not enter into it.
    Do you accept that every poll (13) since Boris became PM shows a conservative lead of upto 10% from all pollsters apart from Com Res at the end of July, which had a labour lead of 1%
    Yes - those facts are undeniable! In no way does that contradict my interpretation of this polling data.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited August 2019

    justin124 said:

    It would be good to know the fieldwork dates for this poll. As it stands, it represents a swing of 1.75% to Con from Lab compared with 2017 and would result in 19 Tory gains from Labour on basis of UNS. However, there would also be 14 LibDem gains from the Tories as a result of a 12% swing from Con to LibDem. No information re-SNP . Labour losses likely to be lower due to first term incumbency boosts in 13 of the 19 seats affected
    Why an incumbency bonus? These new Labour MPs have failed to deliver on their promise - to implement Brexit. Complete failure to deliver on their promise.
    New MPs almost always get a first-term incumbency bonus. Thereafter, the incumbency effect is negligible, even for really good MPs.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Best prices - Article 50 to be revoked?

    No 4/11
    Yes 3/1

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    It would be good to know the fieldwork dates for this poll. As it stands, it represents a swing of 1.75% to Con from Lab compared with 2017 and would result in 19 Tory gains from Labour on basis of UNS. However, there would also be 14 LibDem gains from the Tories as a result of a 12% swing from Con to LibDem. No information re-SNP . Labour losses likely to be lower due to first term incumbency boosts in 13 of the 19 seats affected
    Why an incumbency bonus? These new Labour MPs have failed to deliver on their promise - to implement Brexit. Complete failure to deliver on their promise.
    Your opinion - and indeed my own - on that is neither here nor there! There is clear evidence from previous GEs that newly elected MPs tend to do significantly better at their first attempt to be re-elected than the headline National Voting shares - and swing - would imply. They are likely to have established themselves as constituency MPs and built up a degree of personal support. We saw this in 2015 when the Tories managed to hang on to most marginals at risk to Labour in England despite a 1% swing in Labour's favour. Labour's gains proved to be minimal.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    It would be good to know the fieldwork dates for this poll. As it stands, it represents a swing of 1.75% to Con from Lab compared with 2017 and would result in 19 Tory gains from Labour on basis of UNS. However, there would also be 14 LibDem gains from the Tories as a result of a 12% swing from Con to LibDem. No information re-SNP . Labour losses likely to be lower due to first term incumbency boosts in 13 of the 19 seats affected
    Why an incumbency bonus? These new Labour MPs have failed to deliver on their promise - to implement Brexit. Complete failure to deliver on their promise.
    Your opinion - and indeed my own - on that is neither here nor there! There is clear evidence from previous GEs that newly elected MPs tend to do significantly better at their first attempt to be re-elected than the headline National Voting shares - and swing - would imply. They are likely to have established themselves as constituency MPs and built up a degree of personal support. We saw this in 2015 when the Tories managed to hang on to most marginals at risk to Labour in England despite a 1% swing in Labour's favour. Labour's gains proved to be minimal.
    Plus the fact Labour campaigned against no deal. When May said no deal better than bad deal, Labour clearly opposed that in the campaign.
  • Best prices - Article 50 to be revoked?

    No 4/11
    Yes 3/1

    I do not see a pathway to revoke other than a referendum

    However, if we do not leave the EU will the SNP decide to remain part of the UK or is the question irrelevant, i.e. the SNP want independence and the brexit outcome is immaterial
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438
    edited August 2019

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    It would be good to know the fieldwork dates for this poll. As it stands, it represents a swing of 1.75% to Con from Lab compared with 2017 and would result in 19 Tory gains from Labour on basis of UNS. However, there would also be 14 LibDem gains from the Tories as a result of a 12% swing from Con to LibDem. No information re-SNP . Labour losses likely to be lower due to first term incumbency boosts in 13 of the 19 seats affected
    I do admire your blind faith in labour
    With great respect Big G, I am simply interpreting the figures as published! Faith does not enter into it.
    Do you accept that every poll (13) since Boris became PM shows a conservative lead of upto 10% from all pollsters apart from Com Res at the end of July, which had a labour lead of 1%
    If there was no leader bounce at all it would have been a shock. Blair got a baby Leo bounce 🤱🏼

    The last few days though there has clearly been been a shift in mood against this government, everywhere in media narrative, it will be interesting to see how quickly this bounce unravels from here in the polls. My prediction is, recognising how conference season is hard to poll, the bounce will be on its way out even before conference season.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Just seen that the BBC are going to be running a three-part series entitled "The Rise of the Nazis".

    Hopefully, it's an historical documentary series not current affairs. :wink:

    I know things are bad in Germany, but come on!!
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438

    Best prices - Article 50 to be revoked?

    No 4/11
    Yes 3/1

    I do not see a pathway to revoke other than a referendum

    However, if we do not leave the EU will the SNP decide to remain part of the UK or is the question irrelevant, i.e. the SNP want independence and the brexit outcome is immaterial
    My view is indyref2 is irrelevant. In 2016 the English voted for independence from Scotland. If “trash the union” wasn’t clearly written under leave on the ballot paper then that is the error in such examples of direct democracy, because the bottom line is the English cannot take Scottish out the EU against their will, they are not slaves or prisoners.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068
    viewcode said:

    @rcs1000, what does one need to do to mitigate the effects of the 'rebalancing' of the UK economy you keep alluding to. Pay off as much of mortgage as possible? Large savings in Sterling?

    Remortgage and buy property. Holding liquid Sterling is stupid when the currency is falling and/or inflation increasing. Get into debt and let inflation eat away at the loan repayments. If you can buy non-sterling denominated assets, so much the better. I think transferring liquidity into shares might also be a good idea, as the value of the shares and dividends will rise as sterling falls/inflation rises.

    Of course, this might be total bollocks and I might be totally wrong: it's hardly unprecedented. DYOR on this and consult widely.
    Both house and equity prices are likely to go down in a recession, so not very safe advice.

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Floater said:

    Just seen that the BBC are going to be running a three-part series entitled "The Rise of the Nazis".

    Hopefully, it's an historical documentary series not current affairs. :wink:

    I know things are bad in Germany, but come on!!
    What makes you think he was talking about Germany?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    Just seen that the BBC are going to be running a three-part series entitled "The Rise of the Nazis".

    Hopefully, it's an historical documentary series not current affairs. :wink:

    I thought they already did "The Tories Nazis: A Warning From History" back in the 1990s. Narrated by Sam West.
    They did... but to be fair this is a history lesson bears reiterating - frequently.
  • Zephyr said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    It would be good to know the fieldwork dates for this poll. As it stands, it represents a swing of 1.75% to Con from Lab compared with 2017 and would result in 19 Tory gains from Labour on basis of UNS. However, there would also be 14 LibDem gains from the Tories as a result of a 12% swing from Con to LibDem. No information re-SNP . Labour losses likely to be lower due to first term incumbency boosts in 13 of the 19 seats affected
    I do admire your blind faith in labour
    With great respect Big G, I am simply interpreting the figures as published! Faith does not enter into it.
    Do you accept that every poll (13) since Boris became PM shows a conservative lead of upto 10% from all pollsters apart from Com Res at the end of July, which had a labour lead of 1%
    If there was no leader bounce at all it would have been a shock. Blair got a baby Leo bounce 🤱🏼

    The last few days though there has clearly been been a shift in mood towards this government, it will be interesting to see how quickly this bounce unravels from here in the polls. My prediction is, recognising how conference season is hard to poll, the bounce will be on its way out even before conference season.
    I am neutral on this.

    This weekend has seen a 24/7 anti brexit media blitz and attacks on the government over policing and just about everything else

    If the polls remain in the conservatives favour I can only conclude the public have switched off and just want Brexit to happen on the 31st October.

    Of course Corbyn is Boris's big helper. Has there ever been a more inadequate opposition leader in a time of crisis.

    Almost any other labour leader would have committed to remain months ago and united the oppostion, not only to no deal but to any deal
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Floater said:

    Just seen that the BBC are going to be running a three-part series entitled "The Rise of the Nazis".

    Hopefully, it's an historical documentary series not current affairs. :wink:

    I know things are bad in Germany, but come on!!
    Of course, it could never happen here, could it?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    Scott_P said:
    Remind me. Isn't the EU on holiday or have I missed something
    They are not the ones holding the solution to the crisis (or the cause of it either)

    Revoke A50!
  • Zephyr said:

    Best prices - Article 50 to be revoked?

    No 4/11
    Yes 3/1

    I do not see a pathway to revoke other than a referendum

    However, if we do not leave the EU will the SNP decide to remain part of the UK or is the question irrelevant, i.e. the SNP want independence and the brexit outcome is immaterial
    My view is indyref2 is irrelevant. In 2016 the English voted for independence from Scotland. If “trash the union” wasn’t clearly written under leave on the ballot paper then that is the error in such examples of direct democracy, because the bottom line is the English cannot take Scottish out the EU against their will, they are not slaves or prisoners.
    Over one third of Scots voted leave
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,231

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    People will still move between the EU and the UK after Brexit, just as they did before the EU introduced Free Movement. It will be slightly harder, but far from impossible.

    Why are we making it harder again?
    Because we are making it fair and the same as non-Europeans.

    Why should we discriminate against non-Europeans?
    I don’t think discrimination in this context means what you think it does
    We are treating non-Europeans differenty to Europeans. That is discrimination.

    You asked why we are making it harder, that is the answer. We should be taking in the best migrants, not the whitest European migrants.
    Not the attitude taken in your native Australia whose “points based” system we apparently seek to emulate
    I am native English.

    It is the attitude taken by Australia, they don't offer free movement to the whole of ASEAN, though they do with NZ just as we should with Ireland.
    “Native” English. Your p What’s your attitude to “non-native” English. Are they less English somehow?

    Yes, the White Australia policy was so equal opps it hurt with its fairness.
    What the actual f**k!?

    Are you just trolling now? You said "your native Australia" to someone you know is English, then you object to me saying I'm native English?

    My attitude to "non-native" English is they're welcome here, I support migration from around the globe. Just as I was welcome halfway around the globe for years too.

    The White Australia policy was racist, wrong and discriminatory. It was dropped decades ago. A white Europe policy is no better. Our discrimination against non-Europeans is no better.
    We don’t have a White Europe policy. You just need an EU passport. We let in plenty of non EU immigrants. The Australian policy was based purely on skin colour.
    No it wasn't. It was based on passing a dictation test that non-Europeans were expected to fail.
    English is one of the official languages of India, a country that contains over a billion people who are mostly non-white. It has a comprehensive education system and its own space program. I think its inhabitants can read "Spot Sat Upon The Mat"
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Zephyr said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    It would be good to know the fieldwork dates for this poll. As it stands, it represents a swing of 1.75% to Con from Lab compared with 2017 and would result in 19 Tory gains from Labour on basis of UNS. However, there would also be 14 LibDem gains from the Tories as a result of a 12% swing from Con to LibDem. No information re-SNP . Labour losses likely to be lower due to first term incumbency boosts in 13 of the 19 seats affected
    I do admire your blind faith in labour
    With great respect Big G, I am simply interpreting the figures as published! Faith does not enter into it.
    Do you accept that every poll (13) since Boris became PM shows a conservative lead of upto 10% from all pollsters apart from Com Res at the end of July, which had a labour lead of 1%
    If there was no leader bounce at all it would have been a shock. Blair got a baby Leo bounce 🤱🏼

    The last few days though there has clearly been been a shift in mood towards this government, it will be interesting to see how quickly this bounce unravels from here in the polls. My prediction is, recognising how conference season is hard to poll, the bounce will be on its way out even before conference season.
    I am neutral on this.

    This weekend has seen a 24/7 anti brexit media blitz and attacks on the government over policing and just about everything else

    If the polls remain in the conservatives favour I can only conclude the public have switched off and just want Brexit to happen on the 31st October.

    Of course Corbyn is Boris's big helper. Has there ever been a more inadequate opposition leader in a time of crisis.

    Almost any other labour leader would have committed to remain months ago and united the oppostion, not only to no deal but to any deal
    Learned helplessness (Google it) is the best description of the public's state of mind.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    Scott_P said:
    Remind me. Isn't the EU on holiday or have I missed something
    The EU is not facing a moment of national crisis.
  • Scott_P said:
    Remind me. Isn't the EU on holiday or have I missed something
    The EU is not facing a moment of national crisis.
    To be fair Ben, it is facing a real crisis both in the way German and French economies are heading into recession. Do not think that a no deal is not a crisis for the EU, of course it is and made worse by geopolitical concerns
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
    @Big_G_NorthWales
    Of course Corbyn is Boris's big helper. Has there ever been a more inadequate opposition leader in a time of crisis.

    Almost any other labour leader would have committed to remain months ago and united the oppostion, not only to no deal but to any deal

    Well yes, but Corbyn's goal is to get power through Tory chaos.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,231

    justin124 said:

    It would be good to know the fieldwork dates for this poll. As it stands, it represents a swing of 1.75% to Con from Lab compared with 2017 and would result in 19 Tory gains from Labour on basis of UNS. However, there would also be 14 LibDem gains from the Tories as a result of a 12% swing from Con to LibDem. No information re-SNP . Labour losses likely to be lower due to first term incumbency boosts in 13 of the 19 seats affected
    I do admire your blind faith in labour
    "Kamerad, da gibt es kein Zurueck!" :lol:
    I googled it. I got a lot of NeoNazi stuff and I now have to clear down my browser history. So...thanks for that... :(
  • Scott_P said:
    Remind me. Isn't the EU on holiday or have I missed something
    They are not the ones holding the solution to the crisis (or the cause of it either)

    Revoke A50!
    How can revoke be the answer. I do not say I would object just I cannot see it
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
  • viewcode said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    People will still move between the EU and the UK after Brexit, just as they did before the EU introduced Free Movement. It will be slightly harder, but far from impossible.

    Why are we making it harder again?
    Because we are making it fair and the same as non-Europeans.

    Why should we discriminate against non-Europeans?
    I don’t think discrimination in this context means what you think it does
    We are treating non-Europeans differenty to Europeans. That is discrimination.

    You asked why we are making it harder, that is the answer. We should be taking in the best migrants, not the whitest European migrants.
    Not the attitude taken in your native Australia whose “points based” system we apparently seek to emulate
    I am native English.

    It is the attitude taken by Australia, they don't offer free movement to the whole of ASEAN, though they do with NZ just as we should with Ireland.
    “Native” English. Your p What’s your attitude to “non-native” English. Are they less English somehow?

    Yes, the White Australia policy was so equal opps it hurt with its fairness.
    What the actual f**k!?

    Are you just trolling now? You said "your native Australia" to someone you know is English, then you object to me saying I'm native English?

    My attitude to "non-native" English is they're welcome here, I support migration from around the globe. Just as I was welcome halfway around the globe for years too.

    The White Australia policy was racist, wrong and discriminatory. It was dropped decades ago. A white Europe policy is no better. Our discrimination against non-Europeans is no better.
    We don’t have a White Europe policy. You just need an EU passport. We let in plenty of non EU immigrants. The Australian policy was based purely on skin colour.
    No it wasn't. It was based on passing a dictation test that non-Europeans were expected to fail.
    English is one of the official languages of India, a country that contains over a billion people who are mostly non-white. It has a comprehensive education system and its own space program. I think its inhabitants can read "Spot Sat Upon The Mat"
    They can't pronounce the word "healthy" :)
  • viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    It would be good to know the fieldwork dates for this poll. As it stands, it represents a swing of 1.75% to Con from Lab compared with 2017 and would result in 19 Tory gains from Labour on basis of UNS. However, there would also be 14 LibDem gains from the Tories as a result of a 12% swing from Con to LibDem. No information re-SNP . Labour losses likely to be lower due to first term incumbency boosts in 13 of the 19 seats affected
    I do admire your blind faith in labour
    "Kamerad, da gibt es kein Zurueck!" :lol:
    I googled it. I got a lot of NeoNazi stuff and I now have to clear down my browser history. So...thanks for that... :(
    Sorry about that. I first read about it in Antony Beevor's "Crete".
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Just seen that the BBC are going to be running a three-part series entitled "The Rise of the Nazis".

    Hopefully, it's an historical documentary series not current affairs. :wink:

    I thought they already did "The Tories Nazis: A Warning From History" back in the 1990s. Narrated by Sam West.
    They did... but to be fair this is a history lesson bears reiterating - frequently.
    I'd like to see a little more on the hideousness of Stalin's Russia. Especially as it probably has more reflection on the collective psyche of today's Russia than the Third Reich does on today's Germany.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,231
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    @rcs1000, what does one need to do to mitigate the effects of the 'rebalancing' of the UK economy you keep alluding to. Pay off as much of mortgage as possible? Large savings in Sterling?

    Remortgage and buy property. Holding liquid Sterling is stupid when the currency is falling and/or inflation increasing. Get into debt and let inflation eat away at the loan repayments. If you can buy non-sterling denominated assets, so much the better. I think transferring liquidity into shares might also be a good idea, as the value of the shares and dividends will rise as sterling falls/inflation rises.

    Of course, this might be total bollocks and I might be totally wrong: it's hardly unprecedented. DYOR on this and consult widely.
    Both house and equity prices are likely to go down in a recession, so not very safe advice.

    Look at the history of the 1970s. Recession? Yes. Public order problems, wildcat strikes? Yes. IMF loans? Yes. What happened to house prices? They went up.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,231

    viewcode said:

    English is one of the official languages of India, a country that contains over a billion people who are mostly non-white. It has a comprehensive education system and its own space program. I think its inhabitants can read "Spot Sat Upon The Mat"

    They can't pronounce the word "healthy" :)
    I know an Indian guy in IRL (well several, but one in my team) and I can never get over his pronounciation of the letter "H". It's like the NZ pronounciation of "6" ("sex") and French pronounciation of "Y" ("yee-creck") and US pronounciation of "Z" ("zee")
  • Day after day those who want to remain pounce on every little thing that is negative about leaving, exaggerate it many times in their favour, all in an attempt to stop it

    In the meantime no dealers attack every bit of adverse criticism of no deal brexit as project fear and everything will be resolved with new trade deals and optimism

    Both are as bad as each other.

    I know it is not popular but bring back TM and get her deal through
  • Perhaps we are “pissing about” because the EU has offered us a deal so bad it feels better to Remain. And why have the EU done that? Because that was their intention all along, as admitted by their lead Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, who told a French newspaper at the start “I will have done my job if the exit terms are so bad the British would prefer to stay”

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1087110446484779008?s=20

    The Daily Telegraph makes more stuff up.

    Barnier said it. Here's a screengrab

    https://twitter.com/GregHands/status/1101795488045645829?s=20

    The UK, its consumers, its businesses and its capital stakeholders are currently enjoying enormously favourable terms of trade with participants of the single market, just about the most favourable you could find in a global comparison.
    That comes with the drawback of political, legal and financial obligations. If the UK decides to exert its sovereignty to rid itself of some or even all of these obligations then that will precipitate a deterioration of the terms of trade, that is merely a natural fact.

    The extent to which this must inevitably occur, due to the fact that the new balance of benefits/obligations must fit into the already existing global matrix of balanced EU/other country trade relations, and how severe a disruption this will cause, is a fact not widely understood in the UK's public mind, neither before the referendum nor since.

    When taking up his job Mr. Barnier declared that he saw it as a part of his task to instill much more clarity on that into the UK's public debate, possibly even up to the point that the UK might find it appropriate to reevaluate its decision.

    That propagandists like Mr. Hannan are inclined to reinterprate this as a 'plot to keep the UK in the EU' is unsurprising but nevertheless entirely unconvincing.
    The number of EU voices who see the UK remaining in the EU as a favourable thing has been severely diminished, believe me.

    The fact though, that so many people are receptive to such a kind of hysterical paranoia is in itself remarkable.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Perhaps we are “pissing about” because the EU has offered us a deal so bad it feels better to Remain. And why have the EU done that? Because that was their intention all along, as admitted by their lead Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, who told a French newspaper at the start “I will have done my job if the exit terms are so bad the British would prefer to stay”

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1087110446484779008?s=20

    The Daily Telegraph makes more stuff up.

    Barnier said it. Here's a screengrab

    https://twitter.com/GregHands/status/1101795488045645829?s=20

    The UK, its consumers, its businesses and its capital stakeholders are currently enjoying enormously favourable terms of trade with participants of the single market, just about the most favourable you could find in a global comparison.
    That comes with the drawback of political, legal and financial obligations. If the UK decides to exert its sovereignty to rid itself of some or even all of these obligations then that will precipitate a deterioration of the terms of trade, that is merely a natural fact.

    The extent to which this must inevitably occur, due to the fact that the new balance of benefits/obligations must fit into the already existing global matrix of balanced EU/other country trade relations, and how severe a disruption this will cause, is a fact not widely understood in the UK's public mind, neither before the referendum nor since.

    When taking up his job Mr. Barnier declared that he saw it as a part of his task to instill much more clarity on that into the UK's public debate, possibly even up to the point that the UK might find it appropriate to reevaluate its decision.

    That propagandists like Mr. Hannan are inclined to reinterprate this as a 'plot to keep the UK in the EU' is unsurprising but nevertheless entirely unconvincing.
    The number of EU voices who see the UK remaining in the EU as a favourable thing has been severely diminished, believe me.

    The fact though, that so many people are receptive to such a kind of hysterical paranoia is in itself remarkable.

    But the simple fact is that if the EU wanted the UK parliament to pass the WA then it would be immeasurably easier if public opinion was largely in favour of the WA.

    The simple fact that they mocked May on twitter, blanked her in front of the TV cameras, said we could not be part of Galileo, made TV programs with quotes we were a colony, etc, meant that public opinion never supported the WA. Hence the politicians never moved. In simple terms the EU was not very smart and the decision to act this way was even more strange because they experienced negative public opinion over TTIP.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Day after day those who want to remain pounce on every little thing that is negative about leaving, exaggerate it many times in their favour, all in an attempt to stop it

    In the meantime no dealers attack every bit of adverse criticism of no deal brexit as project fear and everything will be resolved with new trade deals and optimism

    Both are as bad as each other.

    I know it is not popular but bring back TM and get her deal through

    I don't think TM could solve the problems she created to be fair! She made one mistake after another and Boris was in the cabinet and agreed to these decisions. Where did TM go wrong? My view is she probably agreed to a larger financial settlement than was necessary, she agreed to the NI backstop, she activated article 50, she went for an early GE and then failed to adjust her strategy for a minority government supported by a relatively small political party affected by the backstop.

    Personally, I am utterly hacked off with Brexit. It is a stupid and economically backward step that will cause lower economic growth in the future. Immigration will continue but instead of being European in origin will instead be exchanged from Immigration from the rest of the world. I could go on....
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    Scott_P said:
    Remind me. Isn't the EU on holiday or have I missed something
    They are not the ones holding the solution to the crisis (or the cause of it either)

    Revoke A50!
    How can revoke be the answer. I do not say I would object just I cannot see it
    Nobody wants No Deal and (apparently) extentions are out. The only weapen left in the UK arsenal is Revoke and we will throw that one away too.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    edited August 2019

    Perhaps we are “pissing about” because the EU has offered us a deal so bad it feels better to Remain. And why have the EU done that? Because that was their intention all along, as admitted by their lead Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, who told a French newspaper at the start “I will have done my job if the exit terms are so bad the British would prefer to stay”

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1087110446484779008?s=20

    The Daily Telegraph makes more stuff up.

    Barnier said it. Here's a screengrab

    https://twitter.com/GregHands/status/1101795488045645829?s=20

    The UK, its consumers, its businesses and its capital stakeholders are currently enjoying enormously favourable terms of trade with participants of the single market, just about the most favourable you could find in a global comparison.
    That comes with the drawback of political, legal and financial obligations. If the UK decides to exert its sovereignty to rid itself of some or even all of these obligations then that will precipitate a deterioration of the terms of trade, that is merely a natural fact.

    The extent to which this must inevitably occur, due to the fact that the new balance of benefits/obligations must fit into the already existing global matrix of balanced EU/other country trade relations, and how severe a disruption this will cause, is a fact not widely understood in the UK's public mind, neither before the referendum nor since.

    When taking up his job Mr. Barnier declared that he saw it as a part of his task to instill much more clarity on that into the UK's public debate, possibly even up to the point that the UK might find it appropriate to reevaluate its decision.

    That propagandists like Mr. Hannan are inclined to reinterprate this as a 'plot to keep the UK in the EU' is unsurprising but nevertheless entirely unconvincing.
    The number of EU voices who see the UK remaining in the EU as a favourable thing has been severely diminished, believe me.

    The fact though, that so many people are receptive to such a kind of hysterical paranoia is in itself remarkable.



    You very rarely see anyone mentioning that the price to us of belonging to the protectionist EU is to be the 2nd largest net contributor without getting to run the show like the largest contributor, which also under-provides in defence costs to compensate.
  • Day after day those who want to remain pounce on every little thing that is negative about leaving, exaggerate it many times in their favour, all in an attempt to stop it

    In the meantime no dealers attack every bit of adverse criticism of no deal brexit as project fear and everything will be resolved with new trade deals and optimism

    Both are as bad as each other.

    I know it is not popular but bring back TM and get her deal through

    I don't think TM could solve the problems she created to be fair! She made one mistake after another and Boris was in the cabinet and agreed to these decisions. Where did TM go wrong? My view is she probably agreed to a larger financial settlement than was necessary, she agreed to the NI backstop, she activated article 50, she went for an early GE and then failed to adjust her strategy for a minority government supported by a relatively small political party affected by the backstop.

    Personally, I am utterly hacked off with Brexit. It is a stupid and economically backward step that will cause lower economic growth in the future. Immigration will continue but instead of being European in origin will instead be exchanged from Immigration from the rest of the world. I could go on....
    I largely agree with you apart from A50

    498 mps voted for A50 blind without realising the no deal default

    To me, her deal remains the best way to resolve this but others have different views mainly as they are either no dealers or truely want to remain
  • Scott_P said:
    Remind me. Isn't the EU on holiday or have I missed something
    They are not the ones holding the solution to the crisis (or the cause of it either)

    Revoke A50!
    How can revoke be the answer. I do not say I would object just I cannot see it
    Nobody wants No Deal and (apparently) extentions are out. The only weapen left in the UK arsenal is Revoke and we will throw that one away too.
    I wish your first sentence was true.

    Sadly too many do want no deal and judging by the polls it is winning more support
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Scott_P said:
    Remind me. Isn't the EU on holiday or have I missed something
    They are not the ones holding the solution to the crisis (or the cause of it either)

    Revoke A50!
    How can revoke be the answer. I do not say I would object just I cannot see it
    Nobody wants No Deal and (apparently) extentions are out. The only weapen left in the UK arsenal is Revoke and we will throw that one away too.
    I don't want "No Deal" but it's a bit of a stretch to say nobody does, but hey ho ...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    Scott_P said:
    Remind me. Isn't the EU on holiday or have I missed something
    They are not the ones holding the solution to the crisis (or the cause of it either)

    Revoke A50!
    How can revoke be the answer. I do not say I would object just I cannot see it
    Nobody wants No Deal and (apparently) extentions are out. The only weapen left in the UK arsenal is Revoke and we will throw that one away too.
    I wish your first sentence was true.

    Sadly too many do want no deal and judging by the polls it is winning more support
    Fine. No Deal it is then.

    At least we can test the Leaver's theory that the biggest driver of economic growth is to make it more diffcult to export to your biggest market.

    Then we can apply to rejoin.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,046

    Floater said:

    Just seen that the BBC are going to be running a three-part series entitled "The Rise of the Nazis".

    Hopefully, it's an historical documentary series not current affairs. :wink:

    I know things are bad in Germany, but come on!!
    Of course, it could never happen here, could it?
    No.
  • Scott_P said:
    Remind me. Isn't the EU on holiday or have I missed something
    They are not the ones holding the solution to the crisis (or the cause of it either)

    Revoke A50!
    How can revoke be the answer. I do not say I would object just I cannot see it
    Nobody wants No Deal and (apparently) extentions are out. The only weapen left in the UK arsenal is Revoke and we will throw that one away too.
    I wish your first sentence was true.

    Sadly too many do want no deal and judging by the polls it is winning more support
    Fine. No Deal it is then.

    At least we can test the Leaver's theory that the biggest driver of economic growth is to make it more diffcult to export to your biggest market.

    Then we can apply to rejoin.
    I really hope it is not a no deal. It is upto the HOC to find the compromise
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068

    Just seen that the BBC are going to be running a three-part series entitled "The Rise of the Nazis".

    Hopefully, it's an historical documentary series not current affairs. :wink:

    I thought they already did "The Tories Nazis: A Warning From History" back in the 1990s. Narrated by Sam West.
    They did... but to be fair this is a history lesson bears reiterating - frequently.
    I'd like to see a little more on the hideousness of Stalin's Russia. Especially as it probably has more reflection on the collective psyche of today's Russia than the Third Reich does on today's Germany.
    This was very good, not quite in the same league as Shoah, but fascinating. It seems to have dropped off iplayer, but we'll worth it if you can find it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0077ss7

  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited August 2019
    For

    matthiasfromhamburg

    *****

    The UK, its consumers, its businesses and its capital stakeholders are currently enjoying enormously favourable terms of trade with participants of the single market, just about the most favourable you could find in a global comparison.
    That comes with the drawback of political, legal and financial obligations. If the UK decides to exert its sovereignty to rid itself of some or even all of these obligations then that will precipitate a deterioration of the terms of trade, that is merely a natural fact.

    The extent to which this must inevitably occur, due to the fact that the new balance of benefits/obligations must fit into the already existing global matrix of balanced EU/other country trade relations, and how severe a disruption this will cause, is a fact not widely understood in the UK's public mind, neither before the referendum nor since.

    When taking up his job Mr. Barnier declared that he saw it as a part of his task to instill much more clarity on that into the UK's public debate, possibly even up to the point that the UK might find it appropriate to reevaluate its decision.

    That propagandists like Mr. Hannan are inclined to reinterprate this as a 'plot to keep the UK in the EU' is unsurprising but nevertheless entirely unconvincing.
    The number of EU voices who see the UK remaining in the EU as a favourable thing has been severely diminished, believe me.

    The fact though, that so many people are receptive to such a kind of hysterical paranoia is in itself remarkable.

    *****

    It's not paranoia. Barnier was just being honest, possibly too honest, as the EU Commission has since claimed the quote was "misinterpreted", or "taken out of context".

    The fact is, the EU has to make Brexit as painful and punitive as possible, pour decourager les autres. If Brexit is a success, others will follow.

    So we are in a club where the only way of leaving is to take a beating? This, presumably, is why support for joining the EU, in Norway, Iceland and Switzerland, is at record lows.

    The EU has its good points, but it is basically a pile of shit.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Day after day those who want to remain pounce on every little thing that is negative about leaving, exaggerate it many times in their favour, all in an attempt to stop it

    In the meantime no dealers attack every bit of adverse criticism of no deal brexit as project fear and everything will be resolved with new trade deals and optimism

    Both are as bad as each other.

    I know it is not popular but bring back TM and get her deal through

    I don't think TM could solve the problems she created to be fair! She made one mistake after another and Boris was in the cabinet and agreed to these decisions. Where did TM go wrong? My view is she probably agreed to a larger financial settlement than was necessary, she agreed to the NI backstop, she activated article 50, she went for an early GE and then failed to adjust her strategy for a minority government supported by a relatively small political party affected by the backstop.

    Personally, I am utterly hacked off with Brexit. It is a stupid and economically backward step that will cause lower economic growth in the future. Immigration will continue but instead of being European in origin will instead be exchanged from Immigration from the rest of the world. I could go on....
    I largely agree with you apart from A50

    498 mps voted for A50 blind without realising the no deal default

    To me, her deal remains the best way to resolve this but others have different views mainly as they are either no dealers or truely want to remain
    Fair enough on the article 50, TM to her credit dipped the hands of her cabinet and parliament in the red paint on that one. Many agreed when some of them certainly should not have done. I cannot see the TM Deal being passed and to be honest I am starting to get very angry at this No Deal talk. I now worry that my medication supply is going to be disrupted. I have a condition that has serious consequences of relapse if I cannot get my supply of medication. Maybe Boris is all bluster and he will not do No Deal but if he does, where does that leave us...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,231
    Foxy said:

    Just seen that the BBC are going to be running a three-part series entitled "The Rise of the Nazis".

    Hopefully, it's an historical documentary series not current affairs. :wink:

    I thought they already did "The Tories Nazis: A Warning From History" back in the 1990s. Narrated by Sam West.
    They did... but to be fair this is a history lesson bears reiterating - frequently.
    I'd like to see a little more on the hideousness of Stalin's Russia. Especially as it probably has more reflection on the collective psyche of today's Russia than the Third Reich does on today's Germany.
    This was very good, not quite in the same league as Shoah, but fascinating. It seems to have dropped off iplayer, but we'll worth it if you can find it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0077ss7

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKk366tI_LU
  • AndyJS said:

    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
    Unless Corbyn accepts a neutral figure (as far as possible) I doubt a vonc will not happen

    However, I would not be surprised to see Boris call a GE and challenge Corbyn to support it
  • Scott_P said:
    Remind me. Isn't the EU on holiday or have I missed something
    They are not the ones holding the solution to the crisis (or the cause of it either)

    Revoke A50!
    How can revoke be the answer. I do not say I would object just I cannot see it
    Nobody wants No Deal and (apparently) extentions are out. The only weapen left in the UK arsenal is Revoke and we will throw that one away too.
    I wish your first sentence was true.

    Sadly too many do want no deal and judging by the polls it is winning more support
    Fine. No Deal it is then.

    At least we can test the Leaver's theory that the biggest driver of economic growth is to make it more diffcult to export to your biggest market.

    Then we can apply to rejoin.
    That's fair.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    AndyJS said:

    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
    Unless Corbyn accepts a neutral figure (as far as possible) I doubt a vonc will not happen

    However, I would not be surprised to see Boris call a GE and challenge Corbyn to support it
    What I don't quite get is this: let's say a VONC is called, Boris holds a GE before Brexit.

    Let's say Boris wins a small majority: quite likely on latest polls.

    Does Boris then go for No Deal, or does he force through a TMay-like Deal with his new majority?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    Scott_P said:
    Remind me. Isn't the EU on holiday or have I missed something
    They are not the ones holding the solution to the crisis (or the cause of it either)

    Revoke A50!
    How can revoke be the answer. I do not say I would object just I cannot see it
    Nobody wants No Deal and (apparently) extentions are out. The only weapen left in the UK arsenal is Revoke and we will throw that one away too.
    I wish your first sentence was true.

    Sadly too many do want no deal and judging by the polls it is winning more support
    Fine. No Deal it is then.

    At least we can test the Leaver's theory that the biggest driver of economic growth is to make it more diffcult to export to your biggest market.

    Then we can apply to rejoin.
    I really hope it is not a no deal. It is upto the HOC to find the compromise
    The only hope is that poop starts to hit the fan before 31st Oct. If the govt hushes it all up then No Deals us and admits afterward that it knew it was a crock of sh*t then they will get a very sharp lesson on what respecting democracy means.

  • Day after day those who want to remain pounce on every little thing that is negative about leaving, exaggerate it many times in their favour, all in an attempt to stop it

    In the meantime no dealers attack every bit of adverse criticism of no deal brexit as project fear and everything will be resolved with new trade deals and optimism

    Both are as bad as each other.

    I know it is not popular but bring back TM and get her deal through

    I don't think TM could solve the problems she created to be fair! She made one mistake after another and Boris was in the cabinet and agreed to these decisions. Where did TM go wrong? My view is she probably agreed to a larger financial settlement than was necessary, she agreed to the NI backstop, she activated article 50, she went for an early GE and then failed to adjust her strategy for a minority government supported by a relatively small political party affected by the backstop.

    Personally, I am utterly hacked off with Brexit. It is a stupid and economically backward step that will cause lower economic growth in the future. Immigration will continue but instead of being European in origin will instead be exchanged from Immigration from the rest of the world. I could go on....
    I largely agree with you apart from A50

    498 mps voted for A50 blind without realising the no deal default

    To me, her deal remains the best way to resolve this but others have different views mainly as they are either no dealers or truely want to remain
    Fair enough on the article 50, TM to her credit dipped the hands of her cabinet and parliament in the red paint on that one. Many agreed when some of them certainly should not have done. I cannot see the TM Deal being passed and to be honest I am starting to get very angry at this No Deal talk. I now worry that my medication supply is going to be disrupted. I have a condition that has serious consequences of relapse if I cannot get my supply of medication. Maybe Boris is all bluster and he will not do No Deal but if he does, where does that leave us...
    As I said a night or two ago it is very scary and the mps have to find a compromise

    Both my wife and I take daily medication, as do most of us oldies, but I am not fearful the HMG will not air freight in supplies from outside the EU
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    Scott_P said:
    Remind me. Isn't the EU on holiday or have I missed something
    They are not the ones holding the solution to the crisis (or the cause of it either)

    Revoke A50!
    How can revoke be the answer. I do not say I would object just I cannot see it
    Nobody wants No Deal and (apparently) extentions are out. The only weapen left in the UK arsenal is Revoke and we will throw that one away too.
    I wish your first sentence was true.

    Sadly too many do want no deal and judging by the polls it is winning more support
    Fine. No Deal it is then.

    At least we can test the Leaver's theory that the biggest driver of economic growth is to make it more diffcult to export to your biggest market.

    Then we can apply to rejoin.
    That's fair.
    It is absolutley stupid beyond belief, but sometimes there is only one way to get the message across.
  • Byronic said:

    AndyJS said:

    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
    Unless Corbyn accepts a neutral figure (as far as possible) I doubt a vonc will not happen

    However, I would not be surprised to see Boris call a GE and challenge Corbyn to support it
    What I don't quite get is this: let's say a VONC is called, Boris holds a GE before Brexit.

    Let's say Boris wins a small majority: quite likely on latest polls.

    Does Boris then go for No Deal, or does he force through a TMay-like Deal with his new majority?
    I really have no idea
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,046
    Thanks for mindlessly posting that Tweet again - I'm sure we've all benefited richly from a re-run.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    Byronic said:


    It's not paranoia. Barnier was just being honest, possibly too honest, as the EU Commission has since claimed the quote was "misinterpreted", or "taken out of context".

    The fact is, the EU has to make Brexit as painful and punitive as possible, pour decourager les autres. If Brexit is a success, others will follow.

    So we are in a club where the only way of leaving is to take a beating? This, presumably, is why support for joining the EU, in Norway, Iceland and Switzerland, is at record lows.

    The EU has its good points, but it is basically a pile of shit.

    Isn't belief in the whole 'evil EU was always intent on an autres encouraging reaming of the UK' schtick somewhat at odds with thinking the EU is/was bluffing?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,046

    Day after day those who want to remain pounce on every little thing that is negative about leaving, exaggerate it many times in their favour, all in an attempt to stop it

    In the meantime no dealers attack every bit of adverse criticism of no deal brexit as project fear and everything will be resolved with new trade deals and optimism

    Both are as bad as each other.

    I know it is not popular but bring back TM and get her deal through

    I don't think TM could solve the problems she created to be fair! She made one mistake after another and Boris was in the cabinet and agreed to these decisions. Where did TM go wrong? My view is she probably agreed to a larger financial settlement than was necessary, she agreed to the NI backstop, she activated article 50, she went for an early GE and then failed to adjust her strategy for a minority government supported by a relatively small political party affected by the backstop.

    Personally, I am utterly hacked off with Brexit. It is a stupid and economically backward step that will cause lower economic growth in the future. Immigration will continue but instead of being European in origin will instead be exchanged from Immigration from the rest of the world. I could go on....
    I largely agree with you apart from A50

    498 mps voted for A50 blind without realising the no deal default

    To me, her deal remains the best way to resolve this but others have different views mainly as they are either no dealers or truely want to remain
    Fair enough on the article 50, TM to her credit dipped the hands of her cabinet and parliament in the red paint on that one. Many agreed when some of them certainly should not have done. I cannot see the TM Deal being passed and to be honest I am starting to get very angry at this No Deal talk. I now worry that my medication supply is going to be disrupted. I have a condition that has serious consequences of relapse if I cannot get my supply of medication. Maybe Boris is all bluster and he will not do No Deal but if he does, where does that leave us...
    If you want to put your own mind at rest, why don't you research who makes your medication and find out what the situation will be when we no deal? Makes a bit more sense to me than posting here about how worried you are.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    @rcs1000, what does one need to do to mitigate the effects of the 'rebalancing' of the UK economy you keep alluding to. Pay off as much of mortgage as possible? Large savings in Sterling?

    Remortgage and buy property. Holding liquid Sterling is stupid when the currency is falling and/or inflation increasing. Get into debt and let inflation eat away at the loan repayments. If you can buy non-sterling denominated assets, so much the better. I think transferring liquidity into shares might also be a good idea, as the value of the shares and dividends will rise as sterling falls/inflation rises.

    Of course, this might be total bollocks and I might be totally wrong: it's hardly unprecedented. DYOR on this and consult widely.
    Both house and equity prices are likely to go down in a recession, so not very safe advice.

    Look at the history of the 1970s. Recession? Yes. Public order problems, wildcat strikes? Yes. IMF loans? Yes. What happened to house prices? They went up.
    They went up during the Barber boom, otherwise failed to keep pace with inflation, so depreciated in real terms. Equities much the same.

  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    AndyJS said:

    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
    Unless Corbyn accepts a neutral figure (as far as possible) I doubt a vonc will not happen

    However, I would not be surprised to see Boris call a GE and challenge Corbyn to support it
    What I don't quite get is this: let's say a VONC is called, Boris holds a GE before Brexit.

    Let's say Boris wins a small majority: quite likely on latest polls.

    Does Boris then go for No Deal, or does he force through a TMay-like Deal with his new majority?
    I really have no idea
    There is of course a third possibility. With Bojo's new majority and five years in office guaranteed, Boris could take the risk and say: I am going to request an Extension and sort out a proper new deal, with lots of oomph, a dash of Pericles, massive tits on that. Etc.

    He might see it as worth the short term political cost, as he would be impregnable inside the Tory party, having won the election.

    Hmm.


  • Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    @rcs1000, what does one need to do to mitigate the effects of the 'rebalancing' of the UK economy you keep alluding to. Pay off as much of mortgage as possible? Large savings in Sterling?

    Remortgage and buy property. Holding liquid Sterling is stupid when the currency is falling and/or inflation increasing. Get into debt and let inflation eat away at the loan repayments. If you can buy non-sterling denominated assets, so much the better. I think transferring liquidity into shares might also be a good idea, as the value of the shares and dividends will rise as sterling falls/inflation rises.

    Of course, this might be total bollocks and I might be totally wrong: it's hardly unprecedented. DYOR on this and consult widely.
    Both house and equity prices are likely to go down in a recession, so not very safe advice.

    Look at the history of the 1970s. Recession? Yes. Public order problems, wildcat strikes? Yes. IMF loans? Yes. What happened to house prices? They went up.
    They went up during the Barber boom, otherwise failed to keep pace with inflation, so depreciated in real terms. Equities much the same.

    Leicester should have won today Dr Foxy

    Lamps is struggling
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:


    It's not paranoia. Barnier was just being honest, possibly too honest, as the EU Commission has since claimed the quote was "misinterpreted", or "taken out of context".

    The fact is, the EU has to make Brexit as painful and punitive as possible, pour decourager les autres. If Brexit is a success, others will follow.

    So we are in a club where the only way of leaving is to take a beating? This, presumably, is why support for joining the EU, in Norway, Iceland and Switzerland, is at record lows.

    The EU has its good points, but it is basically a pile of shit.

    Isn't belief in the whole 'evil EU was always intent on an autres encouraging reaming of the UK' schtick somewhat at odds with thinking the EU is/was bluffing?
    I've never believed the EU was or is bluffing. All the logic on their side is to push for a punishing Brexit, to keep the EU project on the road, and less enthusiastic members in line.

    That said, when faced with a crazed UK intent on doing suicide bomber Brexit, is it possible they will blink at the last moment?

    Yes. Possibly.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Project Fear" now has its own Wikipedia page.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Fear
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    Byronic said:

    AndyJS said:

    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
    Unless Corbyn accepts a neutral figure (as far as possible) I doubt a vonc will not happen

    However, I would not be surprised to see Boris call a GE and challenge Corbyn to support it
    What I don't quite get is this: let's say a VONC is called, Boris holds a GE before Brexit.

    Let's say Boris wins a small majority: quite likely on latest polls.

    Does Boris then go for No Deal, or does he force through a TMay-like Deal with his new majority?
    What makes people so sure that just because Johnson calls an election, he will get one. The situation is completely different from 2017. One condition that will immediately be put on him is that there will be No Deal.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    AndyJS said:

    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
    Unless Corbyn accepts a neutral figure (as far as possible) I doubt a vonc will not happen

    However, I would not be surprised to see Boris call a GE and challenge Corbyn to support it
    What I don't quite get is this: let's say a VONC is called, Boris holds a GE before Brexit.

    Let's say Boris wins a small majority: quite likely on latest polls.

    Does Boris then go for No Deal, or does he force through a TMay-like Deal with his new majority?
    What makes people so sure that just because Johnson calls an election, he will get one. The situation is completely different from 2017. One condition that will immediately be put on him is that there will be No Deal.
    My premise is that he is VONC'd and he loses the VONC. This is, after all, the most likely development in September.
  • Time to go

    My son in law and his sister are experiencing terrible emotions over the dementia of their mother and hospitalisation of their father. Their mother is now in care but not taking it well and their father sesms to have several age related problems

    Dementia is a terrible experience for those involved and there is no quick fix, sadly

    Good night folks
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Time to go

    My son in law and his sister are experiencing terrible emotions over the dementia of their mother and hospitalisation of their father. Their mother is now in care but not taking it well and their father sesms to have several age related problems

    Dementia is a terrible experience for those involved and there is no quick fix, sadly

    Good night folks

    Sympathy, old PB pal

    Dementia is indeed a horror. There are no kind words that help.
  • Byronic said:

    AndyJS said:

    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
    Unless Corbyn accepts a neutral figure (as far as possible) I doubt a vonc will not happen

    However, I would not be surprised to see Boris call a GE and challenge Corbyn to support it
    What I don't quite get is this: let's say a VONC is called, Boris holds a GE before Brexit.

    Let's say Boris wins a small majority: quite likely on latest polls.

    Does Boris then go for No Deal, or does he force through a TMay-like Deal with his new majority?
    What makes people so sure that just because Johnson calls an election, he will get one. The situation is completely different from 2017. One condition that will immediately be put on him is that there will be No Deal.
    You cannot apply a condition on a GE. If Boris calls a GE Corbyn either backs it or rejects the call which would be ironic due to his desire to have one
  • Byronic said:

    Time to go

    My son in law and his sister are experiencing terrible emotions over the dementia of their mother and hospitalisation of their father. Their mother is now in care but not taking it well and their father sesms to have several age related problems

    Dementia is a terrible experience for those involved and there is no quick fix, sadly

    Good night folks

    Sympathy, old PB pal

    Dementia is indeed a horror. There are no kind words that help.
    Thank you. It is hard - we had it with my wife's parents
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Has anyone seen this new ‘what3words’ thing which is like post codes for the 21st Century? The whole world is split up into 3mx3m grid with 3 unique words for each one. It’s very interesting. 10 Downing Street is drum.larger.occupy ...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    @rcs1000, what does one need to do to mitigate the effects of the 'rebalancing' of the UK economy you keep alluding to. Pay off as much of mortgage as possible? Large savings in Sterling?

    Remortgage and buy property. Holding liquid Sterling is stupid when the currency is falling and/or inflation increasing. Get into debt and let inflation eat away at the loan repayments. If you can buy non-sterling denominated assets, so much the better. I think transferring liquidity into shares might also be a good idea, as the value of the shares and dividends will rise as sterling falls/inflation rises.

    Of course, this might be total bollocks and I might be totally wrong: it's hardly unprecedented. DYOR on this and consult widely.
    Both house and equity prices are likely to go down in a recession, so not very safe advice.

    Look at the history of the 1970s. Recession? Yes. Public order problems, wildcat strikes? Yes. IMF loans? Yes. What happened to house prices? They went up.
    They went up during the Barber boom, otherwise failed to keep pace with inflation, so depreciated in real terms. Equities much the same.

    Leicester should have won today Dr Foxy

    Lamps is struggling
    We were poor to start (something that we have a tendency to) but after the first 20 min were far more threatening. Fans are already making Soyonucu a favorite*. I think Chelsea started at an unsustainable pace, particularly having played extra time midweek. If Lampard loses at Carrow road next week, the fans will get restive.


    *getting £80 million for our third best centreback is looking very good business! See Soyonucu taking the Mickey below. The joke is because he resembles Lord Farquad in Shrek:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1163168900286242816?s=19



  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    "Turkey are"? Is there more than one of it? Christ!!!!
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    @rcs1000, what does one need to do to mitigate the effects of the 'rebalancing' of the UK economy you keep alluding to. Pay off as much of mortgage as possible? Large savings in Sterling?

    Remortgage and buy property. Holding liquid Sterling is stupid when the currency is falling and/or inflation increasing. Get into debt and let inflation eat away at the loan repayments. If you can buy non-sterling denominated assets, so much the better. I think transferring liquidity into shares might also be a good idea, as the value of the shares and dividends will rise as sterling falls/inflation rises.

    Of course, this might be total bollocks and I might be totally wrong: it's hardly unprecedented. DYOR on this and consult widely.
    Both house and equity prices are likely to go down in a recession, so not very safe advice.

    Also there may not be any inflation to speak of. We could have deflation. This could be like the 30s which put paid to the Gold Standard. We need coordinated borrowing at these negative rates and spent on infrastructure. We need inflation !
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
    Unless Corbyn accepts a neutral figure (as far as possible) I doubt a vonc will not happen

    However, I would not be surprised to see Boris call a GE and challenge Corbyn to support it
    I think Corbyn will certainly support an election as soon as possible, despite the fact Labour are on 25% in most polls compared to 41% last time.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    @rcs1000, what does one need to do to mitigate the effects of the 'rebalancing' of the UK economy you keep alluding to. Pay off as much of mortgage as possible? Large savings in Sterling?

    Remortgage and buy property. Holding liquid Sterling is stupid when the currency is falling and/or inflation increasing. Get into debt and let inflation eat away at the loan repayments. If you can buy non-sterling denominated assets, so much the better. I think transferring liquidity into shares might also be a good idea, as the value of the shares and dividends will rise as sterling falls/inflation rises.

    Of course, this might be total bollocks and I might be totally wrong: it's hardly unprecedented. DYOR on this and consult widely.
    Both house and equity prices are likely to go down in a recession, so not very safe advice.

    Look at the history of the 1970s. Recession? Yes. Public order problems, wildcat strikes? Yes. IMF loans? Yes. What happened to house prices? They went up.
    They went up during the Barber boom, otherwise failed to keep pace with inflation, so depreciated in real terms. Equities much the same.

    Leicester should have won today Dr Foxy

    Lamps is struggling
    We were poor to start (something that we have a tendency to) but after the first 20 min were far more threatening. Fans are already making Soyonucu a favorite*. I think Chelsea started at an unsustainable pace, particularly having played extra time midweek. If Lampard loses at Carrow road next week, the fans will get restive.


    *getting £80 million for our third best centreback is looking very good business! See Soyonucu taking the Mickey below. The joke is because he resembles Lord Farquad in Shrek:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1163168900286242816?s=19



    Very good and thanks for Maquire. United and Englands next captain
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited August 2019
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
    Unless Corbyn accepts a neutral figure (as far as possible) I doubt a vonc will not happen

    However, I would not be surprised to see Boris call a GE and challenge Corbyn to support it
    I think Corbyn will certainly support an election as soon as possible, despite the fact Labour are on 25% in most polls compared to 41% last time.
    Of course he will. It is why I am convinced he is an idiot.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    @rcs1000, what does one need to do to mitigate the effects of the 'rebalancing' of the UK economy you keep alluding to. Pay off as much of mortgage as possible? Large savings in Sterling?

    Remortgage and buy property. Holding liquid Sterling is stupid when the currency is falling and/or inflation increasing. Get into debt and let inflation eat away at the loan repayments. If you can buy non-sterling denominated assets, so much the better. I think transferring liquidity into shares might also be a good idea, as the value of the shares and dividends will rise as sterling falls/inflation rises.

    Of course, this might be total bollocks and I might be totally wrong: it's hardly unprecedented. DYOR on this and consult widely.
    Both house and equity prices are likely to go down in a recession, so not very safe advice.

    Look at the history of the 1970s. Recession? Yes. Public order problems, wildcat strikes? Yes. IMF loans? Yes. What happened to house prices? They went up.
    They went up during the Barber boom, otherwise failed to keep pace with inflation, so depreciated in real terms. Equities much the same.

    Leicester should have won today Dr Foxy

    Lamps is struggling
    We were poor to start (something that we have a tendency to) but after the first 20 min were far more threatening. Fans are already making Soyonucu a favorite*. I think Chelsea started at an unsustainable pace, particularly having played extra time midweek. If Lampard loses at Carrow road next week, the fans will get restive.


    *getting £80 million for our third best centreback is looking very good business! See Soyonucu taking the Mickey below. The joke is because he resembles Lord Farquad in Shrek:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1163168900286242816?s=19



    Very good and thanks for Maquire. United and Englands next captain
    United could be top of the league this time tomorrow !
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
    Unless Corbyn accepts a neutral figure (as far as possible) I doubt a vonc will not happen

    However, I would not be surprised to see Boris call a GE and challenge Corbyn to support it
    I think Corbyn will certainly support an election as soon as possible, despite the fact Labour are on 25% in most polls compared to 41% last time.
    Of course he will. It is why I am convinced he is an idiot.
    His theory is that lightning will strike twice and Labour will get a 15 point increase during the campaign for the second time in a row.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    Byronic said:

    AndyJS said:

    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
    Unless Corbyn accepts a neutral figure (as far as possible) I doubt a vonc will not happen

    However, I would not be surprised to see Boris call a GE and challenge Corbyn to support it
    What I don't quite get is this: let's say a VONC is called, Boris holds a GE before Brexit.

    Let's say Boris wins a small majority: quite likely on latest polls.

    Does Boris then go for No Deal, or does he force through a TMay-like Deal with his new majority?
    What makes people so sure that just because Johnson calls an election, he will get one. The situation is completely different from 2017. One condition that will immediately be put on him is that there will be No Deal.
    You cannot apply a condition on a GE. If Boris calls a GE Corbyn either backs it or rejects the call which would be ironic due to his desire to have one
    Of course, you can. Johnson will be invited to give an undertaking that there will be an extension, and if he does not GE is not voted through. The two can be separate dealt with.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    @rcs1000, what does one need to do to mitigate the effects of the 'rebalancing' of the UK economy you keep alluding to. Pay off as much of mortgage as possible? Large savings in Sterling?

    Remortgage and buy property. Holding liquid Sterling is stupid when the currency is falling and/or inflation increasing. Get into debt and let inflation eat away at the loan repayments. If you can buy non-sterling denominated assets, so much the better. I think transferring liquidity into shares might also be a good idea, as the value of the shares and dividends will rise as sterling falls/inflation rises.

    Of course, this might be total bollocks and I might be totally wrong: it's hardly unprecedented. DYOR on this and consult widely.
    Both house and equity prices are likely to go down in a recession, so not very safe advice.

    Look at the history of the 1970s. Recession? Yes. Public order problems, wildcat strikes? Yes. IMF loans? Yes. What happened to house prices? They went up.
    They went up during the Barber boom, otherwise failed to keep pace with inflation, so depreciated in real terms. Equities much the same.

    Leicester should have won today Dr Foxy

    Lamps is struggling
    We were poor to start (something that we have a tendency to) but after the first 20 min were far more threatening. Fans are already making Soyonucu a favorite*. I think Chelsea started at an unsustainable pace, particularly having played extra time midweek. If Lampard loses at Carrow road next week, the fans will get restive.


    *getting £80 million for our third best centreback is looking very good business! See Soyonucu taking the Mickey below. The joke is because he resembles Lord Farquad in Shrek:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1163168900286242816?s=19



    Very good and thanks for Maquire. United and Englands next captain
    Maguire is an excellent player, how he fares without Ndidi in front of him will be interesting. It was a very uncharacteristic error by Ndidi today, glad he made amends with his header.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Day after day those who want to remain pounce on every little thing that is negative about leaving, exaggerate it many times in their favour, all in an attempt to stop it


    Both are as bad as each other.

    I know it is not popular but bring back TM and get her deal through

    I don't think TM could solve the problems she created to be fair! She made one mistake after another and Boris was in the cabinet and agreed to these decisions. Where did TM go wrong? My view is she probably agreed to a larger financial settlement than was necessary, she agreed to the NI backstop, she activated article 50, she went for an early GE and then failed to adjust her strategy for a minority government supported by a relatively small political party affected by the backstop.

    Personally, I am utterly hacked off with Brexit. It is a stupid and economically backward step that will cause lower economic growth in the future. Immigration will continue but instead of being European in origin will instead be exchanged from Immigration from the rest of the world. I could go on....
    I largely agree with you apart from A50

    498 mps voted for A50 blind without realising the no deal default

    To me, her deal remains the best way to resolve this but others have different views mainly as they are either no dealers or truely want to remain
    Fair enough on the article 50, TM to her credit dipped the hands of her cabinet and parliament in the red paint on that one. Many agreed when some of them certainly should not have done. I cannot see the TM Deal being passed and to be honest I am starting to get very angry at this No Deal talk. I now worry that my medication supply is going to be disrupted. I have a condition that has serious consequences of relapse if I cannot get my supply of medication. Maybe Boris is all bluster and he will not do No Deal but if he does, where does that leave us...
    If you want to put your own mind at rest, why don't you research who makes your medication and find out what the situation will be when we no deal? Makes a bit more sense to me than posting here about how worried you are.
    Thanks, when you are reliant on NHS medication you have little control. I have looked into this but my medication has several pharmaceutical suppliers so it is not as simple as you say. I only post on here saying the concerns I have as I sometimes feel some posters think it is only theoretical. Bumps in the road are no good to me or hundreds of thousands of other people who might suffer medical supply failure....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068

    Has anyone seen this new ‘what3words’ thing which is like post codes for the 21st Century? The whole world is split up into 3mx3m grid with 3 unique words for each one. It’s very interesting. 10 Downing Street is drum.larger.occupy ...

    It is a great system for emergency services, but also useful for finding Mrs Foxy when she wanders off in the shops!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Byronic said:

    Time to go

    My son in law and his sister are experiencing terrible emotions over the dementia of their mother and hospitalisation of their father. Their mother is now in care but not taking it well and their father sesms to have several age related problems

    Dementia is a terrible experience for those involved and there is no quick fix, sadly

    Good night folks

    Sympathy, old PB pal

    Dementia is indeed a horror. There are no kind words that help.
    Thank you. It is hard - we had it with my wife's parents
    Dementia is such a cruel disease.

    My sympathies to you and your family.
  • Byronic said:

    AndyJS said:

    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
    Unless Corbyn accepts a neutral figure (as far as possible) I doubt a vonc will not happen

    However, I would not be surprised to see Boris call a GE and challenge Corbyn to support it
    What I don't quite get is this: let's say a VONC is called, Boris holds a GE before Brexit.

    Let's say Boris wins a small majority: quite likely on latest polls.

    Does Boris then go for No Deal, or does he force through a TMay-like Deal with his new majority?
    What makes people so sure that just because Johnson calls an election, he will get one. The situation is completely different from 2017. One condition that will immediately be put on him is that there will be No Deal.
    You cannot apply a condition on a GE. If Boris calls a GE Corbyn either backs it or rejects the call which would be ironic due to his desire to have one
    Of course, you can. Johnson will be invited to give an undertaking that there will be an extension, and if he does not GE is not voted through. The two can be separate dealt with.
    And so we no deal
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    nunuone said:

    Bring on the vote of no confidence, if you dare, Corbyn!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664

    What do MPs do who want to vote in favour of a VONC but don't want Corbyn to be a caretaker PM? Is that combination possible?
    Unless Corbyn accepts a neutral figure (as far as possible) I doubt a vonc will not happen

    However, I would not be surprised to see Boris call a GE and challenge Corbyn to support it
    I think Corbyn will certainly support an election as soon as possible, despite the fact Labour are on 25% in most polls compared to 41% last time.
    It would be ironic if having called for a general election Corbyn saw his party suffer the biggest fall in party voteshare of either of the 2 main parties in postwar history, even the 11% drop Major saw the Tories suffer from 1992 to 1997 is lower than the 16% fall Corbyn is predicted to see Labour suffer now
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Day after day those who want to remain pounce on every little thing that is negative about leaving, exaggerate it many times in their favour, all in an attempt to stop it

    In the meantime no dealers attack every bit of adverse criticism of no deal brexit as project fear and everything will be resolved with new trade deals and optimism

    Both are as bad as each other.

    I know it is not popular but bring back TM and get her deal through

    I don't think TM could solve the problems she created to be fair! She made one mistake after another and Boris was in the cabinet and agreed to these decisions. Where did TM go wrong? My view is she probably agreed to a larger financial settlement than was necessary, she agreed to the NI backstop, she activated article 50, she went for an early GE and then failed to adjust her strategy for a minority government supported by a relatively small political party affected by the backstop.

    Personally, I am utterly hacked off with Brexit. It is a stupid and economically backward step that will cause lower economic growth in the future. Immigration will continue but instead of being European in origin will instead be exchanged from Immigration from the rest of the world. I could go on....
    I largely agree with you apart from A50

    498 mps voted for A50 blind without realising the no deal default

    To me, her deal remains the best way to resolve this but others have different views mainly as they are either no dealers or truely want to remain
    Fair enough on the article 50, TM to her credit dipped the hands of her cabinet and parliament in the red paint on that one. Many agreed when some of them certainly should not have done. I cannot see the TM Deal being passed and to be honest I am starting to get very angry at this No Deal talk. I now worry that my medication supply is going to be disrupted. I have a condition that has serious consequences of relapse if I cannot get my supply of medication. Maybe Boris is all bluster and he will not do No Deal but if he does, where does that leave us...
    As I said a night or two ago it is very scary and the mps have to find a compromise

    Both my wife and I take daily medication, as do most of us oldies, but I am not fearful the HMG will not air freight in supplies from outside the EU
    I like your optimism but I think strategic planning and Brexit are suffering a complete inability to minimise disruption.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068

    Time to go

    My son in law and his sister are experiencing terrible emotions over the dementia of their mother and hospitalisation of their father. Their mother is now in care but not taking it well and their father sesms to have several age related problems

    Dementia is a terrible experience for those involved and there is no quick fix, sadly

    Good night folks

    My mother in law took a couple of months to settle in her nursing home, but is now the happiest she has been in a year. She likes the food and company, and the staff are great.

    Sometimes it just takes a bit of time to adapt. It was the right move.
  • Scott_P said:
    Remind me. Isn't the EU on holiday or have I missed something
    They are not the ones holding the solution to the crisis (or the cause of it either)

    Revoke A50!
    How can revoke be the answer. I do not say I would object just I cannot see it
    Nobody wants No Deal and (apparently) extentions are out. The only weapen left in the UK arsenal is Revoke and we will throw that one away too.
    I wish your first sentence was true.

    Sadly too many do want no deal and judging by the polls it is winning more support
    Fine. No Deal it is then.

    At least we can test the Leaver's theory that the biggest driver of economic growth is to make it more diffcult to export to your biggest market.

    Then we can apply to rejoin.
    That's fair.
    It is absolutley stupid beyond belief, but sometimes there is only one way to get the message across.
    I agree that thinking once we are through this people will want to dive back in is stupid beyond belief. It's fair for you to try though but we need to leave first.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited August 2019

    Thanks, when you are reliant on NHS medication you have little control. I have looked into this but my medication has several pharmaceutical suppliers so it is not as simple as you say. I only post on here saying the concerns I have as I sometimes feel some posters think it is only theoretical. Bumps in the road are no good to me or hundreds of thousands of other people who might suffer medical supply failure....

    You are not the only one. About a million women in the UK are on HRT and they are already experiencing difficulty getting their regular medications. No one will say what the reason is.

    I wonder what large disruptive event looming could cause such a thing?
  • Foxy said:

    Time to go

    My son in law and his sister are experiencing terrible emotions over the dementia of their mother and hospitalisation of their father. Their mother is now in care but not taking it well and their father sesms to have several age related problems

    Dementia is a terrible experience for those involved and there is no quick fix, sadly

    Good night folks

    My mother in law took a couple of months to settle in her nursing home, but is now the happiest she has been in a year. She likes the food and company, and the staff are great.

    Sometimes it just takes a bit of time to adapt. It was the right move.
    Yes I agree - indeed there is no other choice
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Wales has MPs at Westminster and it's own Assembly it voted Leave just like England, there is no desire for Wales to leave the UK
This discussion has been closed.