politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour has to face up to the blindingly obvious – the Corbyn b
Comments
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I'd say I knew you were mistaken.surbiton19 said:
I think you and Richard are trying to apply logic to the argument. What if I told you Corbyn and his narrow band of hard core followers would like nothing better than a Tory No Deal Brexit ?
The thing is that any other caretaker (Ken Clarke, for instance, who I really like) will give Labour MPs in Leaver seats a cast-iron excuse to vote no - "yes, I wanted to block no deal, but I'm not voting for a Tory PM". Labour Leaver MPs are overwhelmingly in seats where voting for a non-Labour PM is career suicide. Clarke or similar would gain 30 Tories and lose 50 Labour. By contrast, NOT voting for Corbyn as a caretaker PM would be very difficult even for Labour Leavers.0 -
He is a Tory in any case so no real lossRoger said:
Looks like Labour will lose Edinburgh South their only safe seat in Scotland as Ian Murray goes independent. Not that smart.Yorkcity said:Corbyn now backing McDonnell on not blocking a Scottish Indepence referendum.
Makes sense to me , whatever Watson and Swinson say.0 -
England are going to be well to get 300 in the cricket....even using two innings.0
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Yes, but they can’t win with Corbyn. He is toxic as all hell - it appears to be the one thing all nations in this tattered Union can agree on.Pulpstar said:
The Labour leadership is all about triangulation to destroy the Lib Dems I think.surbiton19 said:
I think this is good politics. If the ultimate result is Scottish Independence, then so be it. If Scots want independence, they should have it.Gardenwalker said:
I wonder if this is tactically sound but strategically disastrous.Yorkcity said:Corbyn now backing McDonnell on not blocking a Scottish Indepence referendum.
Makes sense to me , whatever Watson and Swinson say.
If Corbyn wants to be PM soon, and indeed win any election, I should have thought his best bet would be to talk up the “caretaking” aspect of this role on offer.
The SNP have nowhere else to go anyway.
Loose talk about Scottish referendum simply allows both the Tories and the moderates to paint him (rightly) as a country wrecker. It doesn’t help him in the short term or long term.0 -
Disposable razors have plastic . Plus I am getting lazy.Beibheirli_C said:
Do young men shave any more? Beards and stubble seem to be the standard these days. Less razors being used...?Roger said:
It won't let me view it.Slackbladder said:
On the other hand, Get woke, go broke seems to be a real thing:
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/the-cost-of-gillettes-wokeness-revealed-a-noncash-writedown-of-12-billion/news-story/0338fd150d366ca2c759f6889f4bbc33
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Gillette market share is being hit by the likes of Dollar Shave Club.surbiton19 said:
Disposable razors have plastic . Plus I am getting lazy.Beibheirli_C said:
Do young men shave any more? Beards and stubble seem to be the standard these days. Less razors being used...?Roger said:
It won't let me view it.Slackbladder said:
On the other hand, Get woke, go broke seems to be a real thing:
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/the-cost-of-gillettes-wokeness-revealed-a-noncash-writedown-of-12-billion/news-story/0338fd150d366ca2c759f6889f4bbc330 -
Of course, the legislative route is procedurally difficult, but it's important to focus on the big point, which is that parliament makes the rules. If it decides that the money-motion rule has to be changed as part of this, then it can change it. This is particularly so when the Speaker is, to put it mildly, sympathetic.IanB2 said:
But the view is that it would be a money motion and hence reserved to government, or alternatively not binding simply making Bozo's job procedurally or politically difficult. Hence GOMOO being top of the agenda.Richard_Nabavi said:Given the problems with the proposal of a temporary government, I continue to believe that the legislative route is much more likely. It would be extremely hard for Corbyn to oppose it (and of course Labour did support Cooper-Boles). It's also very much in Labour's interests: leaving Boris as an impotent PM, in office but not in power, unable to prevent his flagship 'do-or-die' pledge from being broken, and with Farage free to join in the rock-throwing, would be a pretty good scenario for Labour in the GE which would inevitably follow soon afterwards.
Ultimately this is about political will, not procedure: can the anti-no-dealers put together a majority for long enough (and get an Act through the Lords) to grab control of the process?0 -
LESS!!!!Beibheirli_C said:
Do young men shave any more? Beards and stubble seem to be the standard these days. Less razors being used...?Roger said:
It won't let me view it.Slackbladder said:
On the other hand, Get woke, go broke seems to be a real thing:
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/the-cost-of-gillettes-wokeness-revealed-a-noncash-writedown-of-12-billion/news-story/0338fd150d366ca2c759f6889f4bbc33
Argh!
Oh, and this fifty-something hasn't shaved in decades. Leaving a bit of stubble has stopped me getting rashes and breakouts. Plus I'm lazy, and a fortnightly strim is fine by me.0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/15/lib-dems-and-anna-soubry-reject-corbyn-caretaker-government
There maybe more Tory rebels than LD MPs.0 -
Mr. Sandpit, lucky women don't realise they can buy blue products
[There are times when the so-called pink tax is blatant nonsense. Like the higher cost at a dry cleaner's for a delicate blouse than that charged for a rough/thicker shirt].0 -
I spare no expense when it comes to shaving, three or four (One per week) uses out of disposable Bic twin blades for me.0
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He's anything but a Tory. More genuinely socialist -in the best possible use of the word-than Corbynmalcolmg said:
He is a Tory in any case so no real lossRoger said:
Looks like Labour will lose Edinburgh South their only safe seat in Scotland as Ian Murray goes independent. Not that smart.Yorkcity said:Corbyn now backing McDonnell on not blocking a Scottish Indepence referendum.
Makes sense to me , whatever Watson and Swinson say.0 -
Oh Jason.0
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Definitely not, it's not clear that either Corbyn or $CARETAKER has the numbers, and if they don't have the numbers it's no clear that moderate Cons will pull the trigger. Not to mention, Boris may well request a pre-brexit election as soon as parliament returns, which probably makes the whole thing moot.Gardenwalker said:Such excitement on this board.
We seem to be assuming that a VONC is a fait accompli.
Is it?
Edit: I have assumed since Boris’s victory that it is the most likely of several unlikely possibilities.0 -
You'll have to do something naughty and get expelled. Like announcing who you voted for in the Euros.TheScreamingEagles said:
Apparently I'm remaining a member until next May when my membership runs out.Scrapheap_as_was said:Rather less pro-actively than more active ex-members, my renewal reminder has just come in from CCHQ.
I'm not going to do so.
In the hope I change my mind.0 -
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No, because he won't have even 10% of the Commons willing to allow it. And to be fair, I don't think he's suspected of being pliable - if he's promised not to do anything else, he won't, even if he's asked to.Slackbladder said:If corbyn gets in as PM as 'caretaker' does anyone really think there won't be pressure to do things in other areas which he has power to?
Thats the main reason it should not, and cannot be him.
In any case, frankly the best chance of doing stuff that he wants is to do exactly what he's said and then win an election.0 -
...but impossible for any MP of any other party even slightly squeamish about putting an anti-semite in No. 10.NickPalmer said:
I'd say I knew you were mistaken.surbiton19 said:
I think you and Richard are trying to apply logic to the argument. What if I told you Corbyn and his narrow band of hard core followers would like nothing better than a Tory No Deal Brexit ?
The thing is that any other caretaker (Ken Clarke, for instance, who I really like) will give Labour MPs in Leaver seats a cast-iron excuse to vote no - "yes, I wanted to block no deal, but I'm not voting for a Tory PM". Labour Leaver MPs are overwhelmingly in seats where voting for a non-Labour PM is career suicide. Clarke or similar would gain 30 Tories and lose 50 Labour. By contrast, NOT voting for Corbyn as a caretaker PM would be very difficult even for Labour Leavers.0 -
Corbyn as PM must be avoided and Swinson is absolutely right to dismiss it.
Lab is saying to the LibDems that if you don't support another political party ie Labour then you are facilitating Brexit. Which is of course exactly the position Labour itself was in re the WA and did not budge from.0 -
I'd put him in the top three.Currystardog said:
So the whole of Brexit is Boris's fault?Roger said:
"Boris is at least doing something positive'.Currystardog said:
What does this mean?Roger said:
LOL! The arsonist accusing the building of being made of wood!Currystardog said:
This just demonstrates that everything around Brexit is a blame game. You may not like him but at least Boris is doing something positive. Everyone else just wants to talk about what they are not prepared to do to get Brexit through.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1161915099935858689AndyJS said:Corbyn supporters are more interested in getting their man into Downing Street than stopping a no deal Brexit.
Boris got us into this F*cking mess.
Get a grip!
His power is amazing0 -
I voted Tory in the Euros.SandyRentool said:
You'll have to do something naughty and get expelled. Like announcing who you voted for in the Euros.TheScreamingEagles said:
Apparently I'm remaining a member until next May when my membership runs out.Scrapheap_as_was said:Rather less pro-actively than more active ex-members, my renewal reminder has just come in from CCHQ.
I'm not going to do so.
In the hope I change my mind.0 -
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On the other side, Tories are also committing career suicide though by voting for Corbyn or indeed another.NickPalmer said:
I'd say I knew you were mistaken.surbiton19 said:
I think you and Richard are trying to apply logic to the argument. What if I told you Corbyn and his narrow band of hard core followers would like nothing better than a Tory No Deal Brexit ?
The thing is that any other caretaker (Ken Clarke, for instance, who I really like) will give Labour MPs in Leaver seats a cast-iron excuse to vote no - "yes, I wanted to block no deal, but I'm not voting for a Tory PM". Labour Leaver MPs are overwhelmingly in seats where voting for a non-Labour PM is career suicide. Clarke or similar would gain 30 Tories and lose 50 Labour. By contrast, NOT voting for Corbyn as a caretaker PM would be very difficult even for Labour Leavers.0 -
Wow, 50 is a lot. What if it was Sylvia Hermon and the whole narrative was about stopping NI catching fire?NickPalmer said:Clarke or similar would gain 30 Tories and lose 50 Labour.
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What if they vote for Ken?rottenborough said:
On the other side, Tories are also committing career suicide though by voting for Corbyn or indeed another.NickPalmer said:
I'd say I knew you were mistaken.surbiton19 said:
I think you and Richard are trying to apply logic to the argument. What if I told you Corbyn and his narrow band of hard core followers would like nothing better than a Tory No Deal Brexit ?
The thing is that any other caretaker (Ken Clarke, for instance, who I really like) will give Labour MPs in Leaver seats a cast-iron excuse to vote no - "yes, I wanted to block no deal, but I'm not voting for a Tory PM". Labour Leaver MPs are overwhelmingly in seats where voting for a non-Labour PM is career suicide. Clarke or similar would gain 30 Tories and lose 50 Labour. By contrast, NOT voting for Corbyn as a caretaker PM would be very difficult even for Labour Leavers.0 -
That clearly shows you don't belong in the Conservative Party.TheScreamingEagles said:
I voted Tory in the Euros.SandyRentool said:
You'll have to do something naughty and get expelled. Like announcing who you voted for in the Euros.TheScreamingEagles said:
Apparently I'm remaining a member until next May when my membership runs out.Scrapheap_as_was said:Rather less pro-actively than more active ex-members, my renewal reminder has just come in from CCHQ.
I'm not going to do so.
In the hope I change my mind.1 -
Just over 50% of the UK's energy is being generated by wind, solar and hydro at the moment. That's a pretty impressive achievement in a relatively short space of time; I think it was only about 5% 10 to 15 years ago.
https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk0 -
If it’s true that both Clarke and Harman are ready and willing, what’s to stop a “combined ticket”?0
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Which is why Grieve and Letwin have today agreed to discuss it with him?Mysticrose said:In the attempt to diss Jo's position on Corbyn, it's perhaps worth pointing out that many Labour MPs feel exactly the same as her!!!!!
Obviously he's also totally unpalatable to every Tory MP.0 -
Optimistically, I think it's positive that the opposition parties are at least talking to each other about VoNC and plans for a new GE. That's the way out of this mess.
For my part, I would be perfectly happy for a caretaker govt led by anyone trustworthy to extend a50 and call a new GE. Provided it lasts a matter of weeks only, seems fine to me.
Corbyn should start thinking about who he trusts to do this.
If the stop No Deal gang manage to mess this up, there will be a lot of enraged voters out there.0 -
Cameron, Farage and Johnson are probably the three most responsible.Roger said:
I'd put him in the top three.Currystardog said:
So the whole of Brexit is Boris's fault?Roger said:
"Boris is at least doing something positive'.Currystardog said:
What does this mean?Roger said:
LOL! The arsonist accusing the building of being made of wood!Currystardog said:
This just demonstrates that everything around Brexit is a blame game. You may not like him but at least Boris is doing something positive. Everyone else just wants to talk about what they are not prepared to do to get Brexit through.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1161915099935858689AndyJS said:Corbyn supporters are more interested in getting their man into Downing Street than stopping a no deal Brexit.
Boris got us into this F*cking mess.
Get a grip!
His power is amazing0 -
Actually twitter thinks there is major signalling work that day at Gare du Midi.Sandpit said:
To be fair to Eurostar, I wouldn’t have opened bookings on that date either, until I had a pretty good idea of what the necessary arrangements need to be.FrancisUrquhart said:
But there normal schedule of bookable tickets for the days after that. Could it be an IT glitch or maintenance work?rottenborough said:
So may be symbolic rather than Brexit caused.1 -
It probably doesn't make it moot. Parliament won't vote for dissolution if there's a chance in a million that Johnson will call the election for on or after Oct 31.edmundintokyo said:
Definitely not, it's not clear that either Corbyn or $CARETAKER has the numbers, and if they don't have the numbers it's no clear that moderate Cons will pull the trigger. Not to mention, Boris may well request a pre-brexit election as soon as parliament returns, which probably makes the whole thing moot.Gardenwalker said:Such excitement on this board.
We seem to be assuming that a VONC is a fait accompli.
Is it?
Edit: I have assumed since Boris’s victory that it is the most likely of several unlikely possibilities.
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Please explain how it is a way out of this mess?rkrkrk said:Optimistically, I think it's positive that the opposition parties are at least talking to each other about VoNC and plans for a new GE. That's the way out of this mess.
For my part, I would be perfectly happy for a caretaker govt led by anyone trustworthy to extend a50 and call a new GE. Provided it lasts a matter of weeks only, seems fine to me.
Corbyn should start thinking about who he trusts to do this.
If the stop No Deal gang manage to mess this up, there will be a lot of enraged voters out there.0 -
They will still be deselected in a flash I would have thought. The membership are raving Boris fans by sounds of things.Gardenwalker said:
What if they vote for Ken?rottenborough said:
On the other side, Tories are also committing career suicide though by voting for Corbyn or indeed another.NickPalmer said:
I'd say I knew you were mistaken.surbiton19 said:
I think you and Richard are trying to apply logic to the argument. What if I told you Corbyn and his narrow band of hard core followers would like nothing better than a Tory No Deal Brexit ?
The thing is that any other caretaker (Ken Clarke, for instance, who I really like) will give Labour MPs in Leaver seats a cast-iron excuse to vote no - "yes, I wanted to block no deal, but I'm not voting for a Tory PM". Labour Leaver MPs are overwhelmingly in seats where voting for a non-Labour PM is career suicide. Clarke or similar would gain 30 Tories and lose 50 Labour. By contrast, NOT voting for Corbyn as a caretaker PM would be very difficult even for Labour Leavers.0 -
How incredibly noble of them.Scott_P said:0 -
The problem with Sylvia Hermon is nobody even knows who she is. I am not sure even most parliamentarians would recognise her in a line-up.edmundintokyo said:
Wow, 50 is a lot. What if it was Sylvia Hermon and the whole narrative was about stopping NI catching fire?NickPalmer said:Clarke or similar would gain 30 Tories and lose 50 Labour.
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Those were my threePulpstar said:
Cameron, Farage and Johnson are probably the three most responsible.Roger said:
I'd put him in the top three.Currystardog said:
So the whole of Brexit is Boris's fault?Roger said:
"Boris is at least doing something positive'.Currystardog said:
What does this mean?Roger said:
LOL! The arsonist accusing the building of being made of wood!Currystardog said:
This just demonstrates that everything around Brexit is a blame game. You may not like him but at least Boris is doing something positive. Everyone else just wants to talk about what they are not prepared to do to get Brexit through.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1161915099935858689AndyJS said:Corbyn supporters are more interested in getting their man into Downing Street than stopping a no deal Brexit.
Boris got us into this F*cking mess.
Get a grip!
His power is amazing0 -
Someone has to be prime minister. The government can be a multi-party coalition if necessary, but someone has to be prime minister.Gardenwalker said:If it’s true that both Clarke and Harman are ready and willing, what’s to stop a “combined ticket”?
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He can engineer one by VONC in himself..Endillion said:
It probably doesn't make it moot. Parliament won't vote for dissolution if there's a chance in a million that Johnson will call the election for on or after Oct 31.edmundintokyo said:
Definitely not, it's not clear that either Corbyn or $CARETAKER has the numbers, and if they don't have the numbers it's no clear that moderate Cons will pull the trigger. Not to mention, Boris may well request a pre-brexit election as soon as parliament returns, which probably makes the whole thing moot.Gardenwalker said:Such excitement on this board.
We seem to be assuming that a VONC is a fait accompli.
Is it?
Edit: I have assumed since Boris’s victory that it is the most likely of several unlikely possibilities.0 -
Good post.Endillion said:
It's very simple. It's because he has everyone over the Commons over a barrel. He wins either way: either he gets a Tory-sponsored No Deal and resulting chaos which he can benefit from politically, or he gets to be PM immediately while it all gets sorted out. Meanwhile, he controls the critical voting bloc needed to secure Confidence in anyone bar Boris Johnson as PM.anothernick said:
Good point. By defining the role as caretaker only Corbyn has undermined the case for it to be him and no one else, but the fact is that in order to build a parliamentary majority to stop no deal it is essential that the Corbynistas are brought on board. It is absurd for the LDs to pretend otherwise. Coprbyn is going to play a much more significant part in the process than they might wish and they will have to work with him, perhaps not as PM but certainly in a position of considerable power and influence.Richard_Nabavi said:Corbyn's proposal of a temporary government, led by a caretaker PM who happens to be himself, looks to me like a mistake. The reason for this is very simple: it's clearly an idea of some merit in itself, but by using the terms 'caretaker' and 'interim', promising not to implement any Labour policies as this caretaker PM, he has surely left himself open to a completely unanswerable argument: if we're going to have a caretaker PM, supported across parties, surely that person has to be someone who is NOT going to be fighting the next election as leader of one of the parties?
In fact, it's obvious that the best candidate for such a temporary post would be someone who is not even standing as an MP at the next election, so as to be completely untainted by any consideration of personal ambition or partisan calculation. Add to that the fact that Corbyn is one of the most divisive figures in parliament, doesn't even have the confidence of his own MPs, and is the last person that LibDems, independent and Tory MPs might wish to see in No 10, this initiative looks like at best a silly stunt, and probably a trap for himself. He has no answer to the question of why the caretaker PM he proposes shouldn't be a genuine caretaker.
He doesn't particularly care if No Deal happens, but everyone else does. SO he can legitimately say, "here are my demands, take them or leave them. If You're not prepared to make me PM then clearly you don't think No Deal is as bad an outcome as you say."
It's exactly the right strategy, especially as any other approach legitimises the view that he's not fit to be PM. It'll probably lead to No Deal.
Edit: No Deal is actually a double win for him, because he gets both chaos and the chance to blame it on the LDs.
It makes it clear , that stopping a no deal Brexit, is not in reality the Lib Dems main priority.0 -
Can he? Not without opposition support, I think.Slackbladder said:
He can engineer one by VONC in himself..Endillion said:
It probably doesn't make it moot. Parliament won't vote for dissolution if there's a chance in a million that Johnson will call the election for on or after Oct 31.edmundintokyo said:
Definitely not, it's not clear that either Corbyn or $CARETAKER has the numbers, and if they don't have the numbers it's no clear that moderate Cons will pull the trigger. Not to mention, Boris may well request a pre-brexit election as soon as parliament returns, which probably makes the whole thing moot.Gardenwalker said:Such excitement on this board.
We seem to be assuming that a VONC is a fait accompli.
Is it?
Edit: I have assumed since Boris’s victory that it is the most likely of several unlikely possibilities.0 -
But if it was say Harriet Harman, surely those Labour MPs could be brought on board?NickPalmer said:
I'd say I knew you were mistaken.surbiton19 said:
I think you and Richard are trying to apply logic to the argument. What if I told you Corbyn and his narrow band of hard core followers would like nothing better than a Tory No Deal Brexit ?
The thing is that any other caretaker (Ken Clarke, for instance, who I really like) will give Labour MPs in Leaver seats a cast-iron excuse to vote no - "yes, I wanted to block no deal, but I'm not voting for a Tory PM". Labour Leaver MPs are overwhelmingly in seats where voting for a non-Labour PM is career suicide. Clarke or similar would gain 30 Tories and lose 50 Labour. By contrast, NOT voting for Corbyn as a caretaker PM would be very difficult even for Labour Leavers.
I don't know about the personalities, but there must be some Labour person Corbyn can trust to extend a50 and get us a new GE.0 -
An advantage with the back benches, and a disadvantage with the front benches...Gardenwalker said:
The problem with Sylvia Hermon is nobody even knows who she is. I am not sure even most parliamentarians would recognise her in a line-up.edmundintokyo said:
Wow, 50 is a lot. What if it was Sylvia Hermon and the whole narrative was about stopping NI catching fire?NickPalmer said:Clarke or similar would gain 30 Tories and lose 50 Labour.
0 -
Have they, or have they seized the opportunity to try and change his mind and let someone else lead it?NickPalmer said:
Which is why Grieve and Letwin have today agreed to discuss it with him?Mysticrose said:In the attempt to diss Jo's position on Corbyn, it's perhaps worth pointing out that many Labour MPs feel exactly the same as her!!!!!
Obviously he's also totally unpalatable to every Tory MP.0 -
That would make this whole discussion unmoot again...Slackbladder said:
He can engineer one by VONC in himself..0 -
I wish you were joking...Richard_Nabavi said:
That clearly shows you don't belong in the Conservative Party.TheScreamingEagles said:
I voted Tory in the Euros.SandyRentool said:
You'll have to do something naughty and get expelled. Like announcing who you voted for in the Euros.TheScreamingEagles said:
Apparently I'm remaining a member until next May when my membership runs out.Scrapheap_as_was said:Rather less pro-actively than more active ex-members, my renewal reminder has just come in from CCHQ.
I'm not going to do so.
In the hope I change my mind.0 -
Bank holiday in most of mainland western europerottenborough said:
Actually twitter thinks there is major signalling work that day at Gare du Midi.Sandpit said:
To be fair to Eurostar, I wouldn’t have opened bookings on that date either, until I had a pretty good idea of what the necessary arrangements need to be.FrancisUrquhart said:
But there normal schedule of bookable tickets for the days after that. Could it be an IT glitch or maintenance work?rottenborough said:
So may be symbolic rather than Brexit caused.0 -
Exactly the same charge to be made against Labour for not supporting the WA. There is plenty of blame to go around.Chris said:I just hope she realises that if No Deal happens because she's sabotaged this proposal, she will deserve a large part of the blame.
Or kudos if you're that way inclined and after a no deal Brexit.0 -
Hague should also be on that list. He encouraged Euroscepticism in the Tory Party after 1997 and also encouraged Cameron to hold the referendum.Pulpstar said:
Cameron, Farage and Johnson are probably the three most responsible.Roger said:
I'd put him in the top three.Currystardog said:
So the whole of Brexit is Boris's fault?Roger said:
"Boris is at least doing something positive'.Currystardog said:
What does this mean?Roger said:
LOL! The arsonist accusing the building of being made of wood!Currystardog said:
This just demonstrates that everything around Brexit is a blame game. You may not like him but at least Boris is doing something positive. Everyone else just wants to talk about what they are not prepared to do to get Brexit through.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1161915099935858689AndyJS said:Corbyn supporters are more interested in getting their man into Downing Street than stopping a no deal Brexit.
Boris got us into this F*cking mess.
Get a grip!
His power is amazing0 -
Newton's third law of politics. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
After months of pointing and laughing at Brexiteer MPs keeping us in the EU through insistence on the sanctity of their own personal unicorns, Remainers fail to block Brexit because they can't hold their noses and vote for the wrong caretaker PM.0 -
No he can't. That has to be put down by the official Leader of the Opposition, or the Speaker won't let it be debated.Slackbladder said:
He can engineer one by VONC in himself..Endillion said:
It probably doesn't make it moot. Parliament won't vote for dissolution if there's a chance in a million that Johnson will call the election for on or after Oct 31.edmundintokyo said:
Definitely not, it's not clear that either Corbyn or $CARETAKER has the numbers, and if they don't have the numbers it's no clear that moderate Cons will pull the trigger. Not to mention, Boris may well request a pre-brexit election as soon as parliament returns, which probably makes the whole thing moot.Gardenwalker said:Such excitement on this board.
We seem to be assuming that a VONC is a fait accompli.
Is it?
Edit: I have assumed since Boris’s victory that it is the most likely of several unlikely possibilities.
Would be funny actually, if Bercow refused to allow Johnson to be No Confidenced.0 -
Easy. The current parliament cannot decide. The next one should be able to, either by coalescing behind ref 2 (Lab, LD, SNP) or leave with No Deal (Tory/Brexit). One of those blocs should win and will work together to secure their preferred outcome.Currystardog said:
Please explain how it is a way out of this mess?rkrkrk said:Optimistically, I think it's positive that the opposition parties are at least talking to each other about VoNC and plans for a new GE. That's the way out of this mess.
For my part, I would be perfectly happy for a caretaker govt led by anyone trustworthy to extend a50 and call a new GE. Provided it lasts a matter of weeks only, seems fine to me.
Corbyn should start thinking about who he trusts to do this.
If the stop No Deal gang manage to mess this up, there will be a lot of enraged voters out there.0 -
Do you think Corbyn's complete lack of compaigning to remain helped?Roger said:
Those were my threePulpstar said:
Cameron, Farage and Johnson are probably the three most responsible.Roger said:
I'd put him in the top three.Currystardog said:
So the whole of Brexit is Boris's fault?Roger said:
"Boris is at least doing something positive'.Currystardog said:
What does this mean?Roger said:
LOL! The arsonist accusing the building of being made of wood!Currystardog said:
This just demonstrates that everything around Brexit is a blame game. You may not like him but at least Boris is doing something positive. Everyone else just wants to talk about what they are not prepared to do to get Brexit through.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1161915099935858689AndyJS said:Corbyn supporters are more interested in getting their man into Downing Street than stopping a no deal Brexit.
Boris got us into this F*cking mess.
Get a grip!
His power is amazing0 -
Yep. His naked ambition in putting himself forward dismisses him. It shows his absence of judgement..TOPPING said:Corbyn as PM must be avoided and Swinson is absolutely right to dismiss it.
Lab is saying to the LibDems that if you don't support another political party ie Labour then you are facilitating Brexit. Which is of course exactly the position Labour itself was in re the WA and did not budge from.0 -
He's not top three. Perhaps in the second tier that includes Michael Gove and Aaron Banks maybe.anothernick said:
Hague should also be on that list. He encouraged Euroscepticism in the Tory Party after 1997 and also encouraged Cameron to hold the referendum.Pulpstar said:
Cameron, Farage and Johnson are probably the three most responsible.Roger said:
I'd put him in the top three.Currystardog said:
So the whole of Brexit is Boris's fault?Roger said:
"Boris is at least doing something positive'.Currystardog said:
What does this mean?Roger said:
LOL! The arsonist accusing the building of being made of wood!Currystardog said:
This just demonstrates that everything around Brexit is a blame game. You may not like him but at least Boris is doing something positive. Everyone else just wants to talk about what they are not prepared to do to get Brexit through.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1161915099935858689AndyJS said:Corbyn supporters are more interested in getting their man into Downing Street than stopping a no deal Brexit.
Boris got us into this F*cking mess.
Get a grip!
His power is amazing0 -
The problem is that 'leave with No Deal' is not the Tory policy. Johnson is bluffing and everyone* knows it.rkrkrk said:
Easy. The current parliament cannot decide. The next one should be able to, either by coalescing behind ref 2 (Lab, LD, SNP) or leave with No Deal (Tory/Brexit). One of those blocs should win and will work together to secure their preferred outcome.Currystardog said:
Please explain how it is a way out of this mess?rkrkrk said:Optimistically, I think it's positive that the opposition parties are at least talking to each other about VoNC and plans for a new GE. That's the way out of this mess.
For my part, I would be perfectly happy for a caretaker govt led by anyone trustworthy to extend a50 and call a new GE. Provided it lasts a matter of weeks only, seems fine to me.
Corbyn should start thinking about who he trusts to do this.
If the stop No Deal gang manage to mess this up, there will be a lot of enraged voters out there.
(*) Not everyone.0 -
No, though Corbyn at least did more than Theresa May (though subsequent events might suggest her invisibility was not an unmitigated disaster for Remain).Currystardog said:
Do you think Corbyn's complete lack of compaigning to remain helped?Roger said:
Those were my threePulpstar said:
Cameron, Farage and Johnson are probably the three most responsible.Roger said:
I'd put him in the top three.Currystardog said:
So the whole of Brexit is Boris's fault?Roger said:
"Boris is at least doing something positive'.Currystardog said:
What does this mean?Roger said:
LOL! The arsonist accusing the building of being made of wood!Currystardog said:
This just demonstrates that everything around Brexit is a blame game. You may not like him but at least Boris is doing something positive. Everyone else just wants to talk about what they are not prepared to do to get Brexit through.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1161915099935858689AndyJS said:Corbyn supporters are more interested in getting their man into Downing Street than stopping a no deal Brexit.
Boris got us into this F*cking mess.
Get a grip!
His power is amazing0 -
Root gone...good job england...oh f##k, we are going to lose 5-0 arent we.0
-
Brexit is impossible without Corbyn.Currystardog said:
Do you think Corbyn's complete lack of compaigning to remain helped?Roger said:
Those were my threePulpstar said:
Cameron, Farage and Johnson are probably the three most responsible.Roger said:
I'd put him in the top three.Currystardog said:
So the whole of Brexit is Boris's fault?Roger said:
"Boris is at least doing something positive'.Currystardog said:
What does this mean?Roger said:
LOL! The arsonist accusing the building of being made of wood!Currystardog said:
This just demonstrates that everything around Brexit is a blame game. You may not like him but at least Boris is doing something positive. Everyone else just wants to talk about what they are not prepared to do to get Brexit through.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1161915099935858689AndyJS said:Corbyn supporters are more interested in getting their man into Downing Street than stopping a no deal Brexit.
Boris got us into this F*cking mess.
Get a grip!
His power is amazing0 -
Many Democrats Love Elizabeth Warren. They Also Worry About Her.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/15/us/politics/elizabeth-warren-2020-campaign.html0 -
They are TINO....NickPalmer said:
Which is why Grieve and Letwin have today agreed to discuss it with him?Mysticrose said:In the attempt to diss Jo's position on Corbyn, it's perhaps worth pointing out that many Labour MPs feel exactly the same as her!!!!!
Obviously he's also totally unpalatable to every Tory MP.0 -
10 to 15 years ago? Try 2012 (certainly wind/solar - not sure about hydro)AndyJS said:Just over 50% of the UK's energy is being generated by wind, solar and hydro at the moment. That's a pretty impressive achievement in a relatively short space of time; I think it was only about 5% 10 to 15 years ago.
https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk0 -
Go wind. I am on the South coast at the moment. The sun is out, a little breezy but wonderful. After yesterday...…..AndyJS said:Just over 50% of the UK's energy is being generated by wind, solar and hydro at the moment. That's a pretty impressive achievement in a relatively short space of time; I think it was only about 5% 10 to 15 years ago.
https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk0 -
He is against democracy , fixated on preventing the Scottish people deciding their future. He should be gone.Roger said:
He's anything but a Tory. More genuinely socialist -in the best possible use of the word-than Corbynmalcolmg said:
He is a Tory in any case so no real lossRoger said:
Looks like Labour will lose Edinburgh South their only safe seat in Scotland as Ian Murray goes independent. Not that smart.Yorkcity said:Corbyn now backing McDonnell on not blocking a Scottish Indepence referendum.
Makes sense to me , whatever Watson and Swinson say.0 -
Has he scored a 100 in half an hour. Likely not.AndyJS said:Oh Jason.
0 -
Of course, there's also the possibility that the voters don't play along with your little game - and give PM Farage 350 MPs in that ensuing GE....rkrkrk said:Optimistically, I think it's positive that the opposition parties are at least talking to each other about VoNC and plans for a new GE. That's the way out of this mess.
For my part, I would be perfectly happy for a caretaker govt led by anyone trustworthy to extend a50 and call a new GE. Provided it lasts a matter of weeks only, seems fine to me.
Corbyn should start thinking about who he trusts to do this.
If the stop No Deal gang manage to mess this up, there will be a lot of enraged voters out there.
Which will be horrific - and exquisite.0 -
The problem with that is that even if you're right, he's driven the negotiations into a ditch and bet too much credibility on the deadline for extension+election, so it's not really clear that he can find an adequate pretext for an extension... Referendum? Revoke?williamglenn said:
The problem is that 'leave with No Deal' is not the Tory policy. Johnson is bluffing and everyone* knows it.
(*) Not everyone.0 -
If (unlikely as it sounds) Grieve and Letwin come out in support of caretaker Corbyn Swinson is going to look extremely silly. Which is another reason she should have been more circumspect in her response.NickPalmer said:
Which is why Grieve and Letwin have today agreed to discuss it with him?Mysticrose said:In the attempt to diss Jo's position on Corbyn, it's perhaps worth pointing out that many Labour MPs feel exactly the same as her!!!!!
Obviously he's also totally unpalatable to every Tory MP.0 -
OT just seen my first bluebottle in years. I thought they had disappeared along with sparrows and halfway competent politicians.0
-
How to avoid the problem of Labour MPs not wanting to support a Conservative PL and Cons not wanting to support a Lab PM
Get a list of 350 MPs to sign an open document stating
i) the name of the PM will be drawn from the list at random from an urn.
ii) they will support who ever is drawn at random.
iii) as prime minister they promise to deliver a delay in Brexit and call an electon for the earliest possible date.
If you end up with Philip Hammond as caretaker PM all the Labour MPs can geniunely state that they voted for nothing other than to avoid No Deal0 -
And ignore the referendum result??rkrkrk said:
Easy. The current parliament cannot decide. The next one should be able to, either by coalescing behind ref 2 (Lab, LD, SNP) or leave with No Deal (Tory/Brexit). One of those blocs should win and will work together to secure their preferred outcome.Currystardog said:
Please explain how it is a way out of this mess?rkrkrk said:Optimistically, I think it's positive that the opposition parties are at least talking to each other about VoNC and plans for a new GE. That's the way out of this mess.
For my part, I would be perfectly happy for a caretaker govt led by anyone trustworthy to extend a50 and call a new GE. Provided it lasts a matter of weeks only, seems fine to me.
Corbyn should start thinking about who he trusts to do this.
If the stop No Deal gang manage to mess this up, there will be a lot of enraged voters out there.
MPs cannot have that power0 -
Anybody who believes that JC would allow the loss of face of allowing somebody else to lead a post-VONC government or that the labour and conservative memberships would not deselect anybody who supported it is living in cloud cuckoo land and the MPs concerned know it. This proposition is utter madness except for the LDs. The MPs want to keep their jobs. If you have a safe seat for life (which many do) why would you throw it away?
Plus any Labour supporters who would back Swinson on this must surely understand this will totally undermine their party in the GE as she would be the person who “stopped Brexit” it would end Labour as the party of opposition to the tories.0 -
Anything on Gibraltar?
More annoyed by this article than you might expect.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/15/dominic-cummings-nhs-no-deal-brexit
The core of what Cummings said was that Tory MPs don't care about poor/ordinary people. Obviously not caring about the NHS as a sacred institution is more important to Labour politicians.0 -
Actually I think she'd come out OK. She's established her distance from Corbyn but doesn't have to get blamed for No Deal happening, because she reluctantly gave in and stopped No Deal happening.anothernick said:
If (unlikely as it sounds) Grieve and Letwin come out in support of caretaker Corbyn Swinson is going to look extremely silly. Which is another reason she should have been more circumspect in her response.
The same for Corbyn: He can take a position now about not letting anyone else be caretaker, but if he later reverses it, he looks responsible and statesmanlike.0 -
Arron, if you please. But sadly Bastani spells his the correct way.Pulpstar said:He's not top three. Perhaps in the second tier that includes Michael Gove and Aaron Banks maybe.
0 -
It's not a surprise that a Parliament that is bitterly divided on how to Brexit is also bitterly divided on how to stop it.0
-
Corbyn is walking into a trap.anothernick said:
If (unlikely as it sounds) Grieve and Letwin come out in support of caretaker Corbyn Swinson is going to look extremely silly. Which is another reason she should have been more circumspect in her response.NickPalmer said:
Which is why Grieve and Letwin have today agreed to discuss it with him?Mysticrose said:In the attempt to diss Jo's position on Corbyn, it's perhaps worth pointing out that many Labour MPs feel exactly the same as her!!!!!
Obviously he's also totally unpalatable to every Tory MP.
In discussions a GONU is agreed but under Ken Clarke/Harriet Harman but Corbyn rejects it and takes his ball away. Who is then responsible for a no deal0 -
Would you fancy facing your voters at the ensuing GE, having signed up to that insansity?eristdoof said:How to avoid the problem of Labour MPs not wanting to support a Conservative PL and Cons not wanting to support a Lab PM
Get a list of 350 MPs to sign an open document stating
i) the name of the PM will be drawn from the list at random from an urn.
ii) they will support who ever is drawn at random.
iii) as prime minister they promise to deliver a delay in Brexit and call an electon for the earliest possible date.
If you end up with Philip Hammond as caretaker PM all the Labour MPs can geniunely state that they voted for nothing other than to avoid No Deal
"Yes, we decided to pick the PM at random from an urn. No, we haven't all completely lost our minds. Yes, we are fit people to govern the country still. We can totally make decisions in an adult way usually, just this one was a bit hard."1 -
Oh dear, it's Chris Williamson. But never mind, it's not as if being PM has symbolic power and meaning as well.eristdoof said:How to avoid the problem of Labour MPs not wanting to support a Conservative PL and Cons not wanting to support a Lab PM
Get a list of 350 MPs to sign an open document stating
i) the name of the PM will be drawn from the list at random from an urn.
ii) they will support who ever is drawn at random.
iii) as prime minister they promise to deliver a delay in Brexit and call an electon for the earliest possible date.
If you end up with Philip Hammond as caretaker PM all the Labour MPs can geniunely state that they voted for nothing other than to avoid No Deal0 -
Anyone who didn't agree to vote for Corbyn as PM. Easy peasy.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Corbyn is walking into a trap.anothernick said:
If (unlikely as it sounds) Grieve and Letwin come out in support of caretaker Corbyn Swinson is going to look extremely silly. Which is another reason she should have been more circumspect in her response.NickPalmer said:
Which is why Grieve and Letwin have today agreed to discuss it with him?Mysticrose said:In the attempt to diss Jo's position on Corbyn, it's perhaps worth pointing out that many Labour MPs feel exactly the same as her!!!!!
Obviously he's also totally unpalatable to every Tory MP.
In discussions a GONU is agreed but under Ken Clarke/Harriet Harman but Corbyn rejects it and takes his ball away. Who is then responsible for a no deal0 -
As many have pointed out - the referendum was only ADVISORY.Currystardog said:
And ignore the referendum result??rkrkrk said:
Easy. The current parliament cannot decide. The next one should be able to, either by coalescing behind ref 2 (Lab, LD, SNP) or leave with No Deal (Tory/Brexit). One of those blocs should win and will work together to secure their preferred outcome.Currystardog said:
Please explain how it is a way out of this mess?rkrkrk said:Optimistically, I think it's positive that the opposition parties are at least talking to each other about VoNC and plans for a new GE. That's the way out of this mess.
For my part, I would be perfectly happy for a caretaker govt led by anyone trustworthy to extend a50 and call a new GE. Provided it lasts a matter of weeks only, seems fine to me.
Corbyn should start thinking about who he trusts to do this.
If the stop No Deal gang manage to mess this up, there will be a lot of enraged voters out there.
MPs cannot have that power
0 -
Sparrows and bluebottles are still around. Let us hope your third category makes a return too...DecrepitJohnL said:OT just seen my first bluebottle in years. I thought they had disappeared along with sparrows and halfway competent politicians.
0 -
Either there will have been a second referendum for Remain or the first result will have been implemented. So no ignoring of any ref result.Currystardog said:
And ignore the referendum result??rkrkrk said:
Easy. The current parliament cannot decide. The next one should be able to, either by coalescing behind ref 2 (Lab, LD, SNP) or leave with No Deal (Tory/Brexit). One of those blocs should win and will work together to secure their preferred outcome.Currystardog said:
Please explain how it is a way out of this mess?rkrkrk said:Optimistically, I think it's positive that the opposition parties are at least talking to each other about VoNC and plans for a new GE. That's the way out of this mess.
For my part, I would be perfectly happy for a caretaker govt led by anyone trustworthy to extend a50 and call a new GE. Provided it lasts a matter of weeks only, seems fine to me.
Corbyn should start thinking about who he trusts to do this.
If the stop No Deal gang manage to mess this up, there will be a lot of enraged voters out there.
MPs cannot have that power
In any case of course, in our system, MPs obviously do have the power to ignore a referendum.0 -
I am sure that will wash!!!Beibheirli_C said:
As many have pointed out - the referendum was only ADVISORY.Currystardog said:
And ignore the referendum result??rkrkrk said:
Easy. The current parliament cannot decide. The next one should be able to, either by coalescing behind ref 2 (Lab, LD, SNP) or leave with No Deal (Tory/Brexit). One of those blocs should win and will work together to secure their preferred outcome.Currystardog said:
Please explain how it is a way out of this mess?rkrkrk said:Optimistically, I think it's positive that the opposition parties are at least talking to each other about VoNC and plans for a new GE. That's the way out of this mess.
For my part, I would be perfectly happy for a caretaker govt led by anyone trustworthy to extend a50 and call a new GE. Provided it lasts a matter of weeks only, seems fine to me.
Corbyn should start thinking about who he trusts to do this.
If the stop No Deal gang manage to mess this up, there will be a lot of enraged voters out there.
MPs cannot have that power0 -
Nah, they are around, producing copious amounts of maggots, spoiling all they touch.DecrepitJohnL said:OT just seen my first bluebottle in years. I thought they had disappeared along with sparrows and halfway competent politicians.
There's still bluebottles too.0 -
What about Murdoch or Dacre?anothernick said:
Hague should also be on that list. He encouraged Euroscepticism in the Tory Party after 1997 and also encouraged Cameron to hold the referendum.Pulpstar said:
Cameron, Farage and Johnson are probably the three most responsible.Roger said:
I'd put him in the top three.Currystardog said:
So the whole of Brexit is Boris's fault?Roger said:
"Boris is at least doing something positive'.Currystardog said:
What does this mean?Roger said:
LOL! The arsonist accusing the building of being made of wood!Currystardog said:
This just demonstrates that everything around Brexit is a blame game. You may not like him but at least Boris is doing something positive. Everyone else just wants to talk about what they are not prepared to do to get Brexit through.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1161915099935858689AndyJS said:Corbyn supporters are more interested in getting their man into Downing Street than stopping a no deal Brexit.
Boris got us into this F*cking mess.
Get a grip!
His power is amazing
0 -
The Tories!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Corbyn is walking into a trap.anothernick said:
If (unlikely as it sounds) Grieve and Letwin come out in support of caretaker Corbyn Swinson is going to look extremely silly. Which is another reason she should have been more circumspect in her response.NickPalmer said:
Which is why Grieve and Letwin have today agreed to discuss it with him?Mysticrose said:In the attempt to diss Jo's position on Corbyn, it's perhaps worth pointing out that many Labour MPs feel exactly the same as her!!!!!
Obviously he's also totally unpalatable to every Tory MP.
In discussions a GONU is agreed but under Ken Clarke/Harriet Harman but Corbyn rejects it and takes his ball away. Who is then responsible for a no deal
Possibly Fatcha.
Corbyn was present at Brexit, but not involved.0 -
Big mistake by Swinson and the LibDems to give a flat no to Corbyn. It is clear he could never command a majority in the House, so why not back him on the condition that if he loses he commits to backing other candidates who might command a majority?0
-
Doesn't matter if he's bluffing, the EU will call his bluff, and we will leave with No Deal.williamglenn said:
The problem is that 'leave with No Deal' is not the Tory policy. Johnson is bluffing and everyone* knows it.rkrkrk said:
Easy. The current parliament cannot decide. The next one should be able to, either by coalescing behind ref 2 (Lab, LD, SNP) or leave with No Deal (Tory/Brexit). One of those blocs should win and will work together to secure their preferred outcome.Currystardog said:
Please explain how it is a way out of this mess?rkrkrk said:Optimistically, I think it's positive that the opposition parties are at least talking to each other about VoNC and plans for a new GE. That's the way out of this mess.
For my part, I would be perfectly happy for a caretaker govt led by anyone trustworthy to extend a50 and call a new GE. Provided it lasts a matter of weeks only, seems fine to me.
Corbyn should start thinking about who he trusts to do this.
If the stop No Deal gang manage to mess this up, there will be a lot of enraged voters out there.
(*) Not everyone.
That will resolve the current impasse pretty dramatically.0 -
Or UKIP winning the 2014 EU Elections?eristdoof said:
What about Murdoch or Dacre?anothernick said:
Hague should also be on that list. He encouraged Euroscepticism in the Tory Party after 1997 and also encouraged Cameron to hold the referendum.Pulpstar said:
Cameron, Farage and Johnson are probably the three most responsible.Roger said:
I'd put him in the top three.Currystardog said:
So the whole of Brexit is Boris's fault?Roger said:
"Boris is at least doing something positive'.Currystardog said:
What does this mean?Roger said:
LOL! The arsonist accusing the building of being made of wood!Currystardog said:
This just demonstrates that everything around Brexit is a blame game. You may not like him but at least Boris is doing something positive. Everyone else just wants to talk about what they are not prepared to do to get Brexit through.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1161915099935858689AndyJS said:Corbyn supporters are more interested in getting their man into Downing Street than stopping a no deal Brexit.
Boris got us into this F*cking mess.
Get a grip!
His power is amazing0 -
They are plentiful in my garden in Gloucestershire. They were everywhere when I was a kid in East London, but the numbers declined as the area did, I wonder if they have returned with gentrification?DecrepitJohnL said:OT just seen my first bluebottle in years. I thought they had disappeared along with sparrows and halfway competent politicians.
Hedgehogs seem to be in short supply although I do have one that has taken up residence near the pond. The dog does not approve, but we do.0 -
Yet, Twitterati are saying Swinson has walked into a trap. Labour first warmed up the SNP - they have numbers which matter. The Lib Dems are less numerous than Tory rebels.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Corbyn is walking into a trap.anothernick said:
If (unlikely as it sounds) Grieve and Letwin come out in support of caretaker Corbyn Swinson is going to look extremely silly. Which is another reason she should have been more circumspect in her response.NickPalmer said:
Which is why Grieve and Letwin have today agreed to discuss it with him?Mysticrose said:In the attempt to diss Jo's position on Corbyn, it's perhaps worth pointing out that many Labour MPs feel exactly the same as her!!!!!
Obviously he's also totally unpalatable to every Tory MP.
In discussions a GONU is agreed but under Ken Clarke/Harriet Harman but Corbyn rejects it and takes his ball away. Who is then responsible for a no deal
Has anyone noticed the Brexit Agenda has changed in the last 24 hours. It is not dominated by Johnson & Cummins.
0 -
And the subsequent General Election, in which 86% of votes were cast for parties pledging to implement (some form of) Brexit?Beibheirli_C said:
As many have pointed out - the referendum was only ADVISORY.Currystardog said:
And ignore the referendum result??rkrkrk said:
Easy. The current parliament cannot decide. The next one should be able to, either by coalescing behind ref 2 (Lab, LD, SNP) or leave with No Deal (Tory/Brexit). One of those blocs should win and will work together to secure their preferred outcome.Currystardog said:
Please explain how it is a way out of this mess?rkrkrk said:Optimistically, I think it's positive that the opposition parties are at least talking to each other about VoNC and plans for a new GE. That's the way out of this mess.
For my part, I would be perfectly happy for a caretaker govt led by anyone trustworthy to extend a50 and call a new GE. Provided it lasts a matter of weeks only, seems fine to me.
Corbyn should start thinking about who he trusts to do this.
If the stop No Deal gang manage to mess this up, there will be a lot of enraged voters out there.
MPs cannot have that power
Admittedly, it does now seem that views of politicians expressed to the voters when asking for those votes are only "advisory" - in that you would be well advised to ignore whatever politician are saying at election time.0 -
Because it makes it harder for her to attract Tory Remainers?SouthamObserver said:Big mistake by Swinson and the LibDems to give a flat no to Corbyn. It is clear he could never command a majority in the House, so why not back him on the condition that if he loses he commits to backing other candidates who might command a majority?
0 -
Corbyn cannot win a VOC. No Tory would ever back him. So, if I were an LD, I'd say we'll back you on the condition that if you lose you come out in support of a candidate, such as Harriet Harman, who rebel Tory MPs would be more inclined to back.rkrkrk said:
But if it was say Harriet Harman, surely those Labour MPs could be brought on board?NickPalmer said:
I'd say I knew you were mistaken.surbiton19 said:
I think you and Richard are trying to apply logic to the argument. What if I told you Corbyn and his narrow band of hard core followers would like nothing better than a Tory No Deal Brexit ?
The thing is that any other caretaker (Ken Clarke, for instance, who I really like) will give Labour MPs in Leaver seats a cast-iron excuse to vote no - "yes, I wanted to block no deal, but I'm not voting for a Tory PM". Labour Leaver MPs are overwhelmingly in seats where voting for a non-Labour PM is career suicide. Clarke or similar would gain 30 Tories and lose 50 Labour. By contrast, NOT voting for Corbyn as a caretaker PM would be very difficult even for Labour Leavers.
I don't know about the personalities, but there must be some Labour person Corbyn can trust to extend a50 and get us a new GE.
0
