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A few ways, which is why I said it depends how you define it. On some measures it hurts us more, but on others it hurts them more and it depends upon priorities.SouthamObserver said:
How will it hurt them more?Philip_Thompson said:
Depends how you define hurt.bigjohnowls said:Wonder if the cretins still believe it's going to hurt them more than us?
IMNSHO if the EU continues to insist upon the backstop it will under our new leadership hurt the EU more than it hurts us, which wasn't the case under May. Which is why they should drop it.
Irish border: They care passionately about this, which is what drove the backstop. They've been playing a game here insisting they're prepared to have no deal, to get a backstop, to avoid a potential no deal. If we simply don't care as much as they do about the Irish border, if we adopt a laissez-faire approach to this, then it will hurt them more. They're not getting what they want and they face an impossible dilemma.
1: Either the Irish are forced to erect a hard border, which they passionately don't want.
2: Or the EU are forced to develop alternative arrangements away from the border to keep the border open while respecting the integrity of the Single Market. This is exactly what Brexiteers have been demanding and what has been dismissed as a unicorn.
3: Or the EU compromises on the integrity of the Single Market in order to keep the Irish border open. Thus again giving us what we want but them not having what they want.
Either way whatever they choose the integrity of the UK is maintained, only the integrity of the EU is threatened. Ultimately the integrity of the UK may be threatened by a border poll, which itself arguably hurts Ireland more than England, but I think the odds of this are significantly overblown.
Financial settlement: We are due to pay them billions. We won't. Simple.
Benefits to costs: We Brexiteers view our freedom as beneficial. They [like Remainers] view Brexit as entirely harmful with no gain. So we may absorb any hurt with a stoic "no pain, no gain" attitude but any hurt to them brings no benefits whatsoever.0 -
He will one day - he's just passed the benchmark.surbiton19 said:0 -
Other than ‘not doing it will benefit Nigel and f*ck up Boris’ the benefits of Brexit are seeming less and less concrete.1
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Of course, they want a Govt bung, just like the one Cable gave them in the autumn of 2012 when he flew to Detroit to sort a deal because GM wanted to close the plant eventhough we were in the fantastic single market and the stupendous customs union.FF43 said:
Which is presumably why they spun the decision to move production out of the UK as a "We hope to keep producing cars in the UK" storyralphmalph said:0 -
"Theresa May under fire..." ...from the people who brought her down. Fat chance she'll give a shit about what they think.williamglenn said:0 -
A strong poll for Trump on the economy, outside of that he looks very unpopular. We must be due the next recession and market crash sooner rather than later, will fortune smile favourably on Trump again. It would be kind of ironic if no deal Brexit triggers the next global recession and costs Trump the 2020 election.surbiton19 said:0 -
Whilst broadly agreeing with your Irish border problem summation, all of this "who suffers most" debate is pointless. May's "No deal is better than a bad deal" seemingly applies to both sides. Both sides should therefore be concentrating on reaching an okay deal.Philip_Thompson said:
A few ways, which is why I said it depends how you define it. On some measures it hurts us more, but on others it hurts them more and it depends upon priorities.SouthamObserver said:
How will it hurt them more?Philip_Thompson said:
Depends how you define hurt.bigjohnowls said:Wonder if the cretins still believe it's going to hurt them more than us?
IMNSHO if the EU continues to insist upon the backstop it will under our new leadership hurt the EU more than it hurts us, which wasn't the case under May. Which is why they should drop it.
Irish border: They care passionately about this, which is what drove the backstop. They've been playing a game here insisting they're prepared to have no deal, to get a backstop, to avoid a potential no deal. If we simply don't care as much as they do about the Irish border, if we adopt a laissez-faire approach to this, then it will hurt them more. They're not getting what they want and they face an impossible dilemma.
1: Either the Irish are forced to erect a hard border, which they passionately don't want.
2: Or the EU are forced to develop alternative arrangements away from the border to keep the border open while respecting the integrity of the Single Market. This is exactly what Brexiteers have been demanding and what has been dismissed as a unicorn.
3: Or the EU compromises on the integrity of the Single Market in order to keep the Irish border open. Thus again giving us what we want but them not having what they want.
Either way whatever they choose the integrity of the UK is maintained, only the integrity of the EU is threatened. Ultimately the integrity of the UK may be threatened by a border poll, which itself arguably hurts Ireland more than England, but I think the odds of this are significantly overblown.
Financial settlement: We are due to pay them billions. We won't. Simple.0 -
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
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The decision to move the bulk of production to Germany has already been taken. Although they might want money from the UK government to keep the rest here.ralphmalph said:
Of course, they want a Govt bung, just like the one Cable gave them in the autumn of 2012 when he flew to Detroit to sort a deal because GM wanted to close the plant eventhough we were in the fantastic single market and the stupendous customs union.FF43 said:
Which is presumably why they spun the decision to move production out of the UK as a "We hope to keep producing cars in the UK" storyralphmalph said:0 -
In other words " Who/Whom?"another_richard said:
Globalisation, the bank bailouts and a trillion quid of government borrowing have killed conservatism.Beibheirli_C said:
I have never been a member of any party, but I have voted across the political spectrum over the years and that does include having voted Tory at more than one GE.Philip_Thompson said:
I did indeed miss it, because I wasn't a member. I'm tempted to rejoin now though, I feel as a socially liberal Tory that I've got my party back now May's gone.Beibheirli_C said:
Perhaps you missed the recent voting by Tory members?Philip_Thompson said:
A vote on what?Beibheirli_C said:
So why not express that support with a vote?Philip_Thompson said:
Not really, Boris is putting forward the kind of policies Big_G himself supports so why shouldn't he be applauding those policies?Beibheirli_C said:
Indeed, but it is quite the volte face.CarlottaVance said:
Why? Is he not allowed to change his mind?Beibheirli_C said:
A couple of weeks ago you could not bring yourself to vote for Boris, now you are applauding warmly on all but one policy.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris still is on tne social left as you will see as he unveils more of his domestic agenda
I oppose Boris on no deal but not the policies he is putting forward
Incredible!
One way of showing you have a mind is being prepared to change it.....
It would be rather hypocritical or closed-minded to oppose a politician putting forward what you've previously suggested, because of who it is.
We're not due another vote on anything until after 31 October now at which point Schrodinger's Brexit should have been resolved.
*sigh!*
I suspect and hope it will be many years before there's another leadership election though.
Given the antics of the current Tory party, I cannot see anything "conservative" about them.
They are not the party they once were even 10 years ago and certainly not 20 or 30 years ago. They need some radical changes before I could vote for them again
The only arguments left are who gets what place at the trough.
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Trump is even money on Betfair, I don't think that's correct he should be 11-8 or thereabouts I think.noneoftheabove said:
A strong poll for Trump on the economy, outside of that he looks very unpopular. We must be due the next recession and market crash sooner rather than later, will fortune smile favourably on Trump again. It would be kind of ironic if no deal Brexit triggers the next global recession and costs Trump the 2020 election.surbiton19 said:0 -
One of the grim fascinations coming up is seeing what happens to Dominic C. Yes, he masterminded Vote Leave, and his decision to save and throw lots of resources at social media in the final week was brave and pivotal. But running a referendum campaign is a fairly trivial problem- one aim, one target date, one enemy to mess with.Foxy said:
A Cummings is not for life, just until Christmas.Benpointer said:
Indeed. My (admittedly limited) experience of this management style is that the perpetrators think the rules don't apply to them, until they suddenly find they do.Cyclefree said:
He thinks he is. To be fair, you don't generally have much of a social relationship with bosses you sue. But this sort of behaviour is so contrary to best HR practice that if he carries on like this and someone does sue, it will be kerching, kerching for them.Benpointer said:
He's above the law then is he?FrancisUrquhart said:From same telegraph link....
Mr Cummings told the group of advisers that if any of them tried to take him to an employment tribunal "you will be dead to me", according to one source.
No one expects political longevity for him. He has been brought in only to get Brexit done and the BXP destroyed.
I am not convinced that he will manage either. The idea that certain spindoctors are mysterious Svengalis is for the birds. It is all smoke and mirrors.
Now, he has to run a government with pressures from all sides, competing success criteria, a need to have a plan beyond October 31, and an opponent (the EU) that seems justified in its confidence that it can just wait for gravity to take its course.
In the past, Cummings has been pretty contemptuous of the civil service. Now he has the chance to show us he can run the machinery of government better. Couldn't happen to a nicer chap.0 -
I completely agree, the problem is that at the minute a compromise has been met on almost every issue bar the backstop . . . to which now both sides are demanding the other side to concede.ReggieCide said:
Whilst broadly agreeing with your Irish border problem summation, all of this "who suffers most" debate is pointless. May's "No deal is better than a bad deal" seemingly applies to both sides. Both sides should therefore be concentrating on reaching an okay deal.Philip_Thompson said:
A few ways, which is why I said it depends how you define it. On some measures it hurts us more, but on others it hurts them more and it depends upon priorities.SouthamObserver said:
How will it hurt them more?Philip_Thompson said:
Depends how you define hurt.bigjohnowls said:Wonder if the cretins still believe it's going to hurt them more than us?
IMNSHO if the EU continues to insist upon the backstop it will under our new leadership hurt the EU more than it hurts us, which wasn't the case under May. Which is why they should drop it.
Irish border: They care passionately about this, which is what drove the backstop. They've been playing a game here insisting they're prepared to have no deal, to get a backstop, to avoid a potential no deal. If we simply don't care as much as they do about the Irish border, if we adopt a laissez-faire approach to this, then it will hurt them more. They're not getting what they want and they face an impossible dilemma.
1: Either the Irish are forced to erect a hard border, which they passionately don't want.
2: Or the EU are forced to develop alternative arrangements away from the border to keep the border open while respecting the integrity of the Single Market. This is exactly what Brexiteers have been demanding and what has been dismissed as a unicorn.
3: Or the EU compromises on the integrity of the Single Market in order to keep the Irish border open. Thus again giving us what we want but them not having what they want.
Either way whatever they choose the integrity of the UK is maintained, only the integrity of the EU is threatened. Ultimately the integrity of the UK may be threatened by a border poll, which itself arguably hurts Ireland more than England, but I think the odds of this are significantly overblown.
Financial settlement: We are due to pay them billions. We won't. Simple.
To me logically the EU should concede because what they are seeking [the backstop] they won't get in a no deal scenario anyway, so why spurn a compromise deal in order to get no deal?
Whereas what Brexiteers are seeking [control over our laws etc] we will gain in no deal and won't in the backstop, so we have less reason to concede.0 -
Looking back now, I can’t see that Brexit was about anything other than bolstering the career of Boris Johnson. (Some other reasons were mentioned I seem to recall but these seem wholly illusory.)0
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I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island? These people probably vote tribally, or maybe used to.Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
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He's still at 4.8 on betfair.surbiton19 said:0 -
Yeah that's exactly what 17.4 million people voted for.Stark_Dawning said:Looking back now, I can’t see that Brexit was about anything other than bolstering the career of Boris Johnson. (Some other reasons were mentioned I seem to recall but these seem wholly illusory.)
17.4 million people decided we wanted Boris Johnson. That was enough for us all.0 -
That's the point though.Stuartinromford said:One of the grim fascinations coming up is seeing what happens to Dominic C. Yes, he masterminded Vote Leave, and his decision to save and throw lots of resources at social media in the final week was brave and pivotal. But running a referendum campaign is a fairly trivial problem- one aim, one target date, one enemy to mess with.
Now, he has to run a government with pressures from all sides, competing success criteria, a need to have a plan beyond October 31, and an opponent (the EU) that seems justified in its confidence that it can just wait for gravity to take its course.
In the past, Cummings has been pretty contemptuous of the civil service. Now he has the chance to show us he can run the machinery of government better. Couldn't happen to a nicer chap.
It doesn't look at all like he has been brought in to govern.
It looks like he is there solely to win an election against Corbyn in the next 6 months.0 -
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£100m here, £300m there, pretty soon it adds up to real money...0
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*raise hand*ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island?Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
I couldn't name a single Love Island contestant. Never watched it.0 -
Wait until she honours Robbins.....Benpointer said:
"Theresa May under fire..." ...from the people who brought her down. Fat chance she'll give a shit about what they think.williamglenn said:0 -
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets0 -
The Eu already compromised.Philip_Thompson said:I completely agree, the problem is that at the minute a compromise has been met on almost every issue bar the backstop . . . to which now both sides are demanding the other side to concede.
We asked for the backstop. They reluctantly agreed.0 -
She should!MarqueeMark said:
Wait until she honours Robbins.....Benpointer said:
"Theresa May under fire..." ...from the people who brought her down. Fat chance she'll give a shit about what they think.williamglenn said:
Its the last honour he'll ever get. He's done Remainer May's bidding faithfully, if she doesn't honour him nobody else ever will.0 -
As I said, other reasons for Brexit were mentioned along the way, but these have been largely forgotten or will never materialise. Boris’s career is certainly now the prime focus of it all.Philip_Thompson said:
Yeah that's exactly what 17.4 million people voted for.Stark_Dawning said:Looking back now, I can’t see that Brexit was about anything other than bolstering the career of Boris Johnson. (Some other reasons were mentioned I seem to recall but these seem wholly illusory.)
17.4 million people decided we wanted Boris Johnson. That was enough for us all.
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"We" didn't ask for the backstop.Scott_P said:
The Eu already compromised.Philip_Thompson said:I completely agree, the problem is that at the minute a compromise has been met on almost every issue bar the backstop . . . to which now both sides are demanding the other side to concede.
We asked for the backstop. They reluctantly agreed.
I don't seem to recall Boris ever asking for the backstop.0 -
He led the toastPhilip_Thompson said:I don't seem to recall Boris ever asking for the backstop.
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“We”Scott_P said:
The Eu already compromised.Philip_Thompson said:I completely agree, the problem is that at the minute a compromise has been met on almost every issue bar the backstop . . . to which now both sides are demanding the other side to concede.
We asked for the backstop. They reluctantly agreed.
Therein lies your problem.
You meant “She”.
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Dated the 1st October 2017another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then0 -
But you just outlined the current raison d'etre of the Tory Party. Therefore, no effort or cost will be spared.Stark_Dawning said:Other than ‘not doing it will benefit Nigel and f*ck up Boris’ the benefits of Brexit are seeming less and less concrete.
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Looks like the Mail embargoed I think0
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Wasn’t it in the Chequers agreement? My recollection is that Boris said that was great.Philip_Thompson said:
"We" didn't ask for the backstop.Scott_P said:
The Eu already compromised.Philip_Thompson said:I completely agree, the problem is that at the minute a compromise has been met on almost every issue bar the backstop . . . to which now both sides are demanding the other side to concede.
We asked for the backstop. They reluctantly agreed.
I don't seem to recall Boris ever asking for the backstop.0 -
Have you read the FT article? The first paragraph is that PSA is committed to making the next Astra in the UK.FF43 said:
The decision to move the bulk of production to Germany has already been taken. Although they might want money from the UK government to keep the rest here.ralphmalph said:
Of course, they want a Govt bung, just like the one Cable gave them in the autumn of 2012 when he flew to Detroit to sort a deal because GM wanted to close the plant eventhough we were in the fantastic single market and the stupendous customs union.FF43 said:
Which is presumably why they spun the decision to move production out of the UK as a "We hope to keep producing cars in the UK" storyralphmalph said:0 -
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RBS was hardly a great advert for private enterprise!another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
Anyway, it seems clear that your "Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything" was somewhat overstating the case. EDIT: Just seen you latest update, Looks like I was being unfair, there.
I'm not surprised that 20% or more want to see more nationalisation though... there are plenty who are not seeing much benefit from the free market approach to the economy.0 -
That's 2 don't knows thenPhilip_Thompson said:
*raise hand*ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island?Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
I couldn't name a single Love Island contestant. Never watched it.0 -
Further information:another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
According to a recent poll published by The Times (in association with the Legatum Institute, conducted by Populus), 23% of Brits support the nationalisation of Travel Agents
23% travel agents
24% car manufacturing
27% airlines
33% mobile phone network
35% food
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2017/10/23-brits-want-nationalise-travel-agents/0 -
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Not to mention MPs. Many of whom will not be party to his cunning plans.Stuartinromford said:
One of the grim fascinations coming up is seeing what happens to Dominic C. Yes, he masterminded Vote Leave, and his decision to save and throw lots of resources at social media in the final week was brave and pivotal. But running a referendum campaign is a fairly trivial problem- one aim, one target date, one enemy to mess with.Foxy said:
A Cummings is not for life, just until Christmas.Benpointer said:
Indeed. My (admittedly limited) experience of this management style is that the perpetrators think the rules don't apply to them, until they suddenly find they do.Cyclefree said:
He thinks he is. To be fair, you don't generally have much of a social relationship with bosses you sue. But this sort of behaviour is so contrary to best HR practice that if he carries on like this and someone does sue, it will be kerching, kerching for them.Benpointer said:
He's above the law then is he?FrancisUrquhart said:From same telegraph link....
Mr Cummings told the group of advisers that if any of them tried to take him to an employment tribunal "you will be dead to me", according to one source.
No one expects political longevity for him. He has been brought in only to get Brexit done and the BXP destroyed.
I am not convinced that he will manage either. The idea that certain spindoctors are mysterious Svengalis is for the birds. It is all smoke and mirrors.
Now, he has to run a government with pressures from all sides, competing success criteria, a need to have a plan beyond October 31, and an opponent (the EU) that seems justified in its confidence that it can just wait for gravity to take its course.
In the past, Cummings has been pretty contemptuous of the civil service. Now he has the chance to show us he can run the machinery of government better. Couldn't happen to a nicer chap.0 -
It is not recent. October 2017another_richard said:
Further information:another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
According to a recent poll published by The Times (in association with the Legatum Institute, conducted by Populus), 23% of Brits support the nationalisation of Travel Agents
23% travel agents
24% car manufacturing
27% airlines
33% mobile phone network
35% food
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2017/10/23-brits-want-nationalise-travel-agents/0 -
I doubt if opinion has swung against nationalisation since then though.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is not recent. October 2017another_richard said:
Further information:another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
According to a recent poll published by The Times (in association with the Legatum Institute, conducted by Populus), 23% of Brits support the nationalisation of Travel Agents
23% travel agents
24% car manufacturing
27% airlines
33% mobile phone network
35% food
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2017/10/23-brits-want-nationalise-travel-agents/0 -
Shhhhhhhhhh, He'll be wanting to nationalise bridges next.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Dated the 1st October 2017another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then0 -
Three quarters of the current model Astra is made in Liverpool with one quarter in Poland. The decision has been made to produce three quarters of the next model in Germany with the remainder still TBD. The hope is that the one quarter will made in Liverpool.ralphmalph said:
Have you read the FT article? The first paragraph is that PSA is committed to making the next Astra in the UK.FF43 said:
The decision to move the bulk of production to Germany has already been taken. Although they might want money from the UK government to keep the rest here.ralphmalph said:
Of course, they want a Govt bung, just like the one Cable gave them in the autumn of 2012 when he flew to Detroit to sort a deal because GM wanted to close the plant eventhough we were in the fantastic single market and the stupendous customs union.FF43 said:
Which is presumably why they spun the decision to move production out of the UK as a "We hope to keep producing cars in the UK" storyralphmalph said:
The bulk of production will therefore move from the UK to Germany.0 -
It has swung against CorbynBenpointer said:
I doubt if opinion has swung against nationalisation since then though.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is not recent. October 2017another_richard said:
Further information:another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
According to a recent poll published by The Times (in association with the Legatum Institute, conducted by Populus), 23% of Brits support the nationalisation of Travel Agents
23% travel agents
24% car manufacturing
27% airlines
33% mobile phone network
35% food
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2017/10/23-brits-want-nationalise-travel-agents/0 -
ReggieCide said:
That's 2 don't knows thenPhilip_Thompson said:
*raise hand*ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island?Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
I couldn't name a single Love Island contestant. Never watched it.
Plus one don't care.
There was a Grauniad puff-piece over the weekend about how LI was gripping the nation with peak viewing figures of 6 million... or less than 1 in 10; I suspect >90% are don't knows really.0 -
I suspect you're right, and I'd be surprised if the percentage was as low as 36%. Political polling generally shows that anything other than budgets, general elections and new PMs have limited impact and pass most people by, with negligible long term impacts.ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island? These people probably vote tribally, or maybe used to.Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
I also couldn't name a single person who's been on Love Island. Sounds like we need a Venn diagram...0 -
You really think that this is anything but arrant nonsense in respect of the UK population as a whole? It's a fucking poll.Benpointer said:
I doubt if opinion has swung against nationalisation since then though.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is not recent. October 2017another_richard said:
Further information:another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
According to a recent poll published by The Times (in association with the Legatum Institute, conducted by Populus), 23% of Brits support the nationalisation of Travel Agents
23% travel agents
24% car manufacturing
27% airlines
33% mobile phone network
35% food
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2017/10/23-brits-want-nationalise-travel-agents/0 -
-
My recollection is that malevolent Remainer May was so insecure and vindictive she briefed that any Cabinet Ministers who resigned over Chequers would be stranded their, have their car removed immediately and be left to get a Taxi back home . . . as if that would prevent people saying they agreed to her face, getting home and then resigning later that weekend!Stark_Dawning said:
Wasn’t it in the Chequers agreement? My recollection is that Boris said that was great.Philip_Thompson said:
"We" didn't ask for the backstop.Scott_P said:
The Eu already compromised.Philip_Thompson said:I completely agree, the problem is that at the minute a compromise has been met on almost every issue bar the backstop . . . to which now both sides are demanding the other side to concede.
We asked for the backstop. They reluctantly agreed.
I don't seem to recall Boris ever asking for the backstop.0 -
Feels like he can win another tight contest (maybe chance of winning 55%-45% his favour) if the economy is going well but very unlikely if the economy has tanked (maybe 15%-85%). Obviously the economy can be between going well/tanked, but I concur that evens sounds like a decen lay, not sure quite how much beyond that. Given his age and scandals you are probably about right.Pulpstar said:
Trump is even money on Betfair, I don't think that's correct he should be 11-8 or thereabouts I think.noneoftheabove said:
A strong poll for Trump on the economy, outside of that he looks very unpopular. We must be due the next recession and market crash sooner rather than later, will fortune smile favourably on Trump again. It would be kind of ironic if no deal Brexit triggers the next global recession and costs Trump the 2020 election.surbiton19 said:0 -
You may not be able to have PM Corbyn without nationalisation but we could certainly have nationalisation without PM Corbyn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It has swung against CorbynBenpointer said:
I doubt if opinion has swung against nationalisation since then though.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is not recent. October 2017another_richard said:
Further information:another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
According to a recent poll published by The Times (in association with the Legatum Institute, conducted by Populus), 23% of Brits support the nationalisation of Travel Agents
23% travel agents
24% car manufacturing
27% airlines
33% mobile phone network
35% food
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2017/10/23-brits-want-nationalise-travel-agents/0 -
0
-
I know it's an old poll, but I doubt the numbers have changed much since it was published. What amazes me is that a third of people want nationalised mobile phone networks. What would that achieve? Other than higher bills and worse service for everyone. I have to tolerate a pseudo-public telecoms monopoly on my internet connection via BT Openreach and it's awful. Any fault takes forever to fix and needs three weeks notice before they send anyone out.another_richard said:
Further information:another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
According to a recent poll published by The Times (in association with the Legatum Institute, conducted by Populus), 23% of Brits support the nationalisation of Travel Agents
23% travel agents
24% car manufacturing
27% airlines
33% mobile phone network
35% food
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2017/10/23-brits-want-nationalise-travel-agents/0 -
So you have not read the article.FF43 said:
Three quarters of the current model Astra is made in Liverpool with one quarter in Poland. The decision has been made to produce three quarters of the next model in Germany with the remainder still TBD. The hope is that the one quarter will made in Liverpool.ralphmalph said:
Have you read the FT article? The first paragraph is that PSA is committed to making the next Astra in the UK.FF43 said:
The decision to move the bulk of production to Germany has already been taken. Although they might want money from the UK government to keep the rest here.ralphmalph said:
Of course, they want a Govt bung, just like the one Cable gave them in the autumn of 2012 when he flew to Detroit to sort a deal because GM wanted to close the plant eventhough we were in the fantastic single market and the stupendous customs union.FF43 said:
Which is presumably why they spun the decision to move production out of the UK as a "We hope to keep producing cars in the UK" storyralphmalph said:
The bulk of production will therefore move from the UK to Germany.0 -
Tomorrow’s headline really ought to be A Whole Lot of Spaffing Going On.Scott_P said:0 -
Who knows who's guess is most accurate. I don't give a toss.Benpointer said:ReggieCide said:
That's 2 don't knows thenPhilip_Thompson said:
*raise hand*ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island?Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
I couldn't name a single Love Island contestant. Never watched it.
Plus one don't care.
There was a Grauniad puff-piece over the weekend about how LI was gripping the nation with peak viewing figures of 6 million... or less than 1 in 10; I suspect >90% are don't knows really.0 -
You mean it doesn't concur with your preferences? Good reason to discount it then.ReggieCide said:
You really think that this is anything but arrant nonsense in respect of the UK population as a whole? It's a fucking poll.Benpointer said:
I doubt if opinion has swung against nationalisation since then though.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is not recent. October 2017another_richard said:
Further information:another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
According to a recent poll published by The Times (in association with the Legatum Institute, conducted by Populus), 23% of Brits support the nationalisation of Travel Agents
23% travel agents
24% car manufacturing
27% airlines
33% mobile phone network
35% food
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2017/10/23-brits-want-nationalise-travel-agents/
0 -
Right, off to bed - night all!0
-
Scott_P said:
Boris Blows Billions.0 -
I know we are discouraged from saying people didnt know what they voted for but surely it can be accepted that not all the country understands what nationalisation involves.Mauve said:
I know it's an old poll, but I doubt the numbers have changed much since it was published. What amazes me is that a third of people want nationalised mobile phone networks. What would that achieve? Other than higher bills and worse service for everyone. I have to tolerate a pseudo-public telecoms monopoly on my internet connection via BT Openreach and it's awful. Any fault takes forever to fix and needs three weeks notice before they send anyone out.another_richard said:
Further information:another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
According to a recent poll published by The Times (in association with the Legatum Institute, conducted by Populus), 23% of Brits support the nationalisation of Travel Agents
23% travel agents
24% car manufacturing
27% airlines
33% mobile phone network
35% food
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2017/10/23-brits-want-nationalise-travel-agents/0 -
Pleased you agree.Benpointer said:
You mean it doesn't concur with your preferences? Good reason to discount it then.ReggieCide said:
You really think that this is anything but arrant nonsense in respect of the UK population as a whole? It's a fucking poll.Benpointer said:
I doubt if opinion has swung against nationalisation since then though.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is not recent. October 2017another_richard said:
Further information:another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
According to a recent poll published by The Times (in association with the Legatum Institute, conducted by Populus), 23% of Brits support the nationalisation of Travel Agents
23% travel agents
24% car manufacturing
27% airlines
33% mobile phone network
35% food
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2017/10/23-brits-want-nationalise-travel-agents/0 -
I could probably name them all...Mauve said:
I suspect you're right, and I'd be surprised if the percentage was as low as 36%. Political polling generally shows that anything other than budgets, general elections and new PMs have limited impact and pass most people by, with negligible long term impacts.ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island? These people probably vote tribally, or maybe used to.Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
I also couldn't name a single person who's been on Love Island. Sounds like we need a Venn diagram...
0 -
Etonian Incontinence.MarqueeMark said:0 -
How dare Boris do PM things !
0 -
-
I'm looking forward to hearing what he has to say. He can hardly do worse than standing on the Royal Mile and chuntering on about Culloden.No_Offence_Alan said:0 -
If these people would only leave the country, then Boris will indeed be #NotMyPrimeMinister.TGOHF said:
Like they all said they would leave the country if Boris became mayor of London. Never fucking deliver on their promises.0 -
There's certainly a sector of society who own little, suffer from high prices and have little financial hope.Benpointer said:
RBS was hardly a great advert for private enterprise!another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
Anyway, it seems clear that your "Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything" was somewhat overstating the case. EDIT: Just seen you latest update, Looks like I was being unfair, there.
I'm not surprised that 20% or more want to see more nationalisation though... there are plenty who are not seeing much benefit from the free market approach to the economy.
So its easy to see why they might support radical change to the economy.
There will also be people who suspect they are being ripped off by businesses and think they would get things 20% cheaper if there were no shareholders and profits.
I think that the ability to change utility / insurance etc suppliers has encouraged that second view because if you don't annually change your suppliers you can be ripped off. Of course before you could easily compare prices and change your suppliers you had little idea if you were being ripped off or not and little ability to do anything about it if you were.0 -
Entirely the opposite experience for me. They came and did the work within the hour. After the private sector Talk Talk failed to turn up for five days. Needless to say I left them.Mauve said:
I know it's an old poll, but I doubt the numbers have changed much since it was published. What amazes me is that a third of people want nationalised mobile phone networks. What would that achieve? Other than higher bills and worse service for everyone. I have to tolerate a pseudo-public telecoms monopoly on my internet connection via BT Openreach and it's awful. Any fault takes forever to fix and needs three weeks notice before they send anyone out.another_richard said:
Further information:another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
According to a recent poll published by The Times (in association with the Legatum Institute, conducted by Populus), 23% of Brits support the nationalisation of Travel Agents
23% travel agents
24% car manufacturing
27% airlines
33% mobile phone network
35% food
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2017/10/23-brits-want-nationalise-travel-agents/0 -
Mrs Foxy is a fan, but she chucks me out when it starts. The sarcasm gets too much. See you 2100 tommorow...Philip_Thompson said:
*raise hand*ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island?Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
I couldn't name a single Love Island contestant. Never watched it.0 -
-
Works for me...TGOHF said:0 -
What is Love Island?ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island? These people probably vote tribally, or maybe used to.Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
0 -
Sounded like BT Openreach was their only option, whereas you had a choice. I think that was their pointdixiedean said:
Entirely the opposite experience for me. They came and did the work within the hour. After the private sector Talk Talk failed to turn up for five days. Needless to say I left them.Mauve said:
I know it's an old poll, but I doubt the numbers have changed much since it was published. What amazes me is that a third of people want nationalised mobile phone networks. What would that achieve? Other than higher bills and worse service for everyone. I have to tolerate a pseudo-public telecoms monopoly on my internet connection via BT Openreach and it's awful. Any fault takes forever to fix and needs three weeks notice before they send anyone out.another_richard said:
Further information:another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
According to a recent poll published by The Times (in association with the Legatum Institute, conducted by Populus), 23% of Brits support the nationalisation of Travel Agents
23% travel agents
24% car manufacturing
27% airlines
33% mobile phone network
35% food
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2017/10/23-brits-want-nationalise-travel-agents/
0 -
By, those money taps are turned on.Scott_P said:0 -
Big Brother on a beach I believe.MTimT said:
What is Love Island?ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island? These people probably vote tribally, or maybe used to.Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
0 -
-
The biggest threat to the union is Bozos lunatic no deal .Scott_P said:
He needs to STFU and stop peddling this care for the Union guff . If he cared about the UK he’d not have been the architect of Brexit .0 -
The greatest TV show that ITV2 has ever produced.MTimT said:
What is Love Island?ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island? These people probably vote tribally, or maybe used to.Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
I voted for Greg and Amber to win.0 -
It’s a villa not a beach FYIanother_richard said:
Big Brother on a beach I believe.MTimT said:
What is Love Island?ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island? These people probably vote tribally, or maybe used to.Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
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No. It took 5 days for Talk Talk to run a test, to show the problem was between the telegraph pole and the house. And therefore BTs responsibility. They were round in an hour and done in 2.RobD said:
Sounded like BT Openreach was their only option, whereas you had a choice. I think that was their pointdixiedean said:
Entirely the opposite experience for me. They came and did the work within the hour. After the private sector Talk Talk failed to turn up for five days. Needless to say I left them.Mauve said:
I know it's an old poll, but I doubt the numbers have changed much since it was published. What amazes me is that a third of people want nationalised mobile phone networks. What would that achieve? Other than higher bills and worse service for everyone. I have to tolerate a pseudo-public telecoms monopoly on my internet connection via BT Openreach and it's awful. Any fault takes forever to fix and needs three weeks notice before they send anyone out.another_richard said:
Further information:another_richard said:
I've seen a poll here with over 20% support for the nationalisation of supermarkets, travel agents and car factories.Benpointer said:
There's a poll that shows that?another_richard said:
Approximately 20% want to nationalise everything.DavidL said:
Personally I find it shocking that 15% of the population think he is the best qualified to be PM, even amongst that rather rum bunch. What are these people thinking?Gardenwalker said:On-thread: Pretty impressive poll for Swinson, as she’s hardly been in the media and even her election was crowded out by the Boris effect.
Appalling for Corbyn. Simply appalling.
Is this the lowest Preferred PM % for a LotO ever?
I can't find it at the moment but this relates to the issue:
Nationalisation fever also appears to be infectious. Royal Bank of Scotland, you might assume, is not a powerful advert for the delights of state ownership but the country is apparently evenly split on whether all banks should be nationalised. There was even 27% support for nationalising airlines, as if the budget airline revolution never happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets
According to a recent poll published by The Times (in association with the Legatum Institute, conducted by Populus), 23% of Brits support the nationalisation of Travel Agents
23% travel agents
24% car manufacturing
27% airlines
33% mobile phone network
35% food
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2017/10/23-brits-want-nationalise-travel-agents/0 -
If you cant see your GP perhaps you should see an optician.Scott_P said:0 -
I'm not opposed to outgoing PMs giving out a few gongs to supporters, I don't think it that unreasonable that the outgoing head of government in some small way can reward their staunchest supporters in such a way as it is only a title at the end of the day.williamglenn said:
A peerage is a different kettle of fish, even if latitude is granted with honours given while the PM resigns, raising someone to the legislature is pretty substantial.
Boris Blows Billions Badly?Nigelb said:0 -
I read the article, but you didn't read my comment that explained the background to the article, hence your ill informed remark.ralphmalph said:
So you have not read the article.FF43 said:
Three quarters of the current model Astra is made in Liverpool with one quarter in Poland. The decision has been made to produce three quarters of the next model in Germany with the remainder still TBD. The hope is that the one quarter will made in Liverpool.ralphmalph said:
Have you read the FT article? The first paragraph is that PSA is committed to making the next Astra in the UK.FF43 said:
The decision to move the bulk of production to Germany has already been taken. Although they might want money from the UK government to keep the rest here.ralphmalph said:
Of course, they want a Govt bung, just like the one Cable gave them in the autumn of 2012 when he flew to Detroit to sort a deal because GM wanted to close the plant eventhough we were in the fantastic single market and the stupendous customs union.FF43 said:
Which is presumably why they spun the decision to move production out of the UK as a "We hope to keep producing cars in the UK" storyralphmalph said:
The bulk of production will therefore move from the UK to Germany.
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Tommy and Molly Mae massive favourites but Amber and Gregg could have a chance. India and Ovie the outsiders.Foxy said:
Mrs Foxy is a fan, but she chucks me out when it starts. The sarcasm gets too much. See you 2100 tommorow...Philip_Thompson said:
*raise hand*ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island?Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
I couldn't name a single Love Island contestant. Never watched it.0 -
So provide the background where a senior exec at PSA is quoted as stating that the 75:25 split will reverse.FF43 said:
I read the article, but you didn't read my comment that explained the background to the article, hence your ill informed remark.ralphmalph said:
So you have not read the article.FF43 said:
Three quarters of the current model Astra is made in Liverpool with one quarter in Poland. The decision has been made to produce three quarters of the next model in Germany with the remainder still TBD. The hope is that the one quarter will made in Liverpool.ralphmalph said:
Have you read the FT article? The first paragraph is that PSA is committed to making the next Astra in the UK.FF43 said:
The decision to move the bulk of production to Germany has already been taken. Although they might want money from the UK government to keep the rest here.ralphmalph said:
Of course, they want a Govt bung, just like the one Cable gave them in the autumn of 2012 when he flew to Detroit to sort a deal because GM wanted to close the plant eventhough we were in the fantastic single market and the stupendous customs union.FF43 said:
Which is presumably why they spun the decision to move production out of the UK as a "We hope to keep producing cars in the UK" storyralphmalph said:
The bulk of production will therefore move from the UK to Germany.0 -
It seems the sheer power of optimism and belief has wished into existence a veritable money forest. Who now can fail to believe in the power of positive thinking?0
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It's free to vote via the App.too.Gallowgate said:
The greatest TV show that ITV2 has ever produced.MTimT said:
What is Love Island?ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island? These people probably vote tribally, or maybe used to.Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
I voted for Greg and Amber to win.0 -
The big difference between you and me is that I already feel free. I do not regard myself, my family, my friends, work colleagues or country as oppressed victims. We have agency.Philip_Thompson said:
A few ways, which is why I said it depends how you define it. On some measures it hurts us more, but on others it hurts them more and it depends upon priorities.SouthamObserver said:
How will it hurt them more?Philip_Thompson said:
Depends how you define hurt.bigjohnowls said:Wonder if the cretins still believe it's going to hurt them more than us?
IMNSHO if the EU continues to insist upon the backstop it will under our new leadership hurt the EU more than it hurts us, which wasn't the case under May. Which is why they should drop it.
Irish border: They care passionately about this, which is what drove the backstop. They've been playing a game here insisting they're prepared to have no deal, to get a backstop, to avoid a potential no deal. If we simply don't care as much as they do about the Irish border, if we adopt a laissez-faire approach to this, then it will hurt them more. They're not getting what they want and they face an impossible dilemma.
1: Either the Irish are forced to erect a hard border, which they passionately don't want.
2: Or the EU are forced to develop alternative arrangements away from the border to keep the border open while respecting the integrity of the Single Market. This is exactly what Brexiteers have been demanding and what has been dismissed as a unicorn.
3: Or the EU compromises on the integrity of the Single Market in order to keep the Irish border open. Thus again giving us what we want but them not having what they want.
Either way whatever they choose the integrity of the UK is maintained, only the integrity of the EU is threatened. Ultimately the integrity of the UK may be threatened by a border poll, which itself arguably hurts Ireland more than England, but I think the odds of this are significantly overblown.
Financial settlement: We are due to pay them billions. We won't. Simple.
Benefits to costs: We Brexiteers view our freedom as beneficial. They [like Remainers] view Brexit as entirely harmful with no gain. So we may absorb any hurt with a stoic "no pain, no gain" attitude but any hurt to them brings no benefits whatsoever.
The hard border surrounding the UK that No Deal will create will substantially restrict our current freedoms to trade, move capital and travel. While No Deal also means no FTAs with our biggest export markets and the loss of current access to dozens more. We will also be a poorer country, which will reduce our freedom to make choices.
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The ultimate in dumbed-down TV programmesGallowgate said:
The greatest TV show that ITV2 has ever produced.MTimT said:
What is Love Island?ReggieCide said:
I reckon many, many people never watch the news, ever. How many don't knows would you get on a poll about Love Island? These people probably vote tribally, or maybe used to.Mauve said:
It tells you how many people haven't been watching the news recently. With 36% don't knows that's a lot of votes available for anyone who has a clear, simple message. Of course, "no view" in this context might translate in to "sack the lot of them"ReggieCide said:At a time when I suspect polls tell us nothing, this one tells us loads: they're fucking useless.
I voted for Greg and Amber to win.
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Yeh, right.
This discussion has been closed.