politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Johnson’s first net approval ratings are 33 points lower than
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Johnson’s first net approval ratings are 33 points lower than TMay when she entered Number 10 in 2016
As well as the voting intention surveys this weekend we have had the first approval ratings from Opinium on Johnson in polling carried out since he entered Number 10. A total of 28% said they approved of the way he was handling his job compared with 31% saying the disapproved. This gives a net figure of minus three.
Comments
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First.0
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lazy sleazy Boris on the slide.0
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Second. Like Boris in most popular PM since Cameron.0
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Given the baggage he carries, it's also hard to see how he turns it round. It's not like Corbyn, whom most people knew vaguely was a Bad Thing but didn't know much about until he started scattering largesse around. Boris Johnson has been a prominent public figure for 30-odd years in a series of high-profile roles and most people have already seen what he's like.0
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The leader figures gives a lot of confidence for the future of our country !!!!!0
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I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
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Yup always better to continue an argument into the next thread I find.Cyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
Laters0 -
Exactly. It's all downhill from here for Boris and the hill will be pretty steep. With a cliff edge at the end.ydoethur said:Given the baggage he carries, it's also hard to see how he turns it round. It's not like Corbyn, whom most people knew vaguely was a Bad Thing but didn't know much about until he started scattering largesse around. Boris Johnson has been a prominent public figure for 30-odd years in a series of high-profile roles and most people have already seen what he's like.
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I like your headers. Acerbic, but not nasty. Like a fine Manzanilla sherry.Cyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.0 -
You are a wonderful contributor to this site and I read all your threads and posts with great interest and respect. I do not agree with all you write but that is not a reason to become rude, but rather a reason to try to make my own views in a fair and sensible mannerCyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
Please have a glass of wine, relax and think of your gardening that gives you so much pleasure (as indeed our garden does for my dear wife) and continue to provide us with your interesting knowledge and views1 -
It should be, agreed.anothernick said:
Exactly. It's all downhill from here for Boris and the hill will be pretty steep. With a cliff edge at the end.ydoethur said:Given the baggage he carries, it's also hard to see how he turns it round. It's not like Corbyn, whom most people knew vaguely was a Bad Thing but didn't know much about until he started scattering largesse around. Boris Johnson has been a prominent public figure for 30-odd years in a series of high-profile roles and most people have already seen what he's like.
But with things so volatile at the moment and Labour in as bad a mess as the Tories, it may be that being less awful than the alternative will be good enough.0 -
Agreed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are a wonderful contributor to this site and I read all your threads and posts with great interest and respect. I do not agree with all you write but that is not a reason to become rude, but rather a reason to try to make my own views in a fair and sensible mannerCyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
Please have a glass of wine, relax and think of your gardening that gives you so much pleasure (as indeed our garden does for my dear wife) and continue to provide us with your interesting knowledge and views0 -
Yeah, but BoJo has the mojo, therefore anything that says he is not the Bozziah is someone talking the country down.0
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Never. He came back from terrible ratings before, why would the faithful not think he will again?HYUFD said:
More to the point, how many non-corbynites will just return to the fold to prevent a Tory victory like last time? My best is most of those who say how much labour is not the party they joined will vote for it next time just the same.0 -
I'm happy to confirm that I find your attacks on Cyclefree misguided as well as tedious, and also that you should learn how and when to use commas.JBriskinindyref2 said:
Yup always better to continue an argument into the next thread I find.Cyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
Laters
On topic: I think there are two important points to be made here. One is that Johnson's leadership rating are inevitably tarnished by the hangover of May's appalling ratings towards the end of her time in office, and the spillover onto the Tory brand. The second is that I think Johnson would probably do quite well out of an election campaign where he was front and centre, providing he played it more or less straight and cut out most of his usual histrionics.0 -
He turns it around either by delivering unexpectedly on his many many many promises, or if no deal turns out to be no big deal after all.ydoethur said:Given the baggage he carries, it's also hard to see how he turns it round. It's not like Corbyn, whom most people knew vaguely was a Bad Thing but didn't know much about until he started scattering largesse around. Boris Johnson has been a prominent public figure for 30-odd years in a series of high-profile roles and most people have already seen what he's like.
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Imagine just for a moment that -3 for Boris and ~30% for the Tories is the high-water mark under the leadership of Britain Trump. Just how badly could they do at the next general election?0
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TBH I think the state of Labour is not going to be a significant factor in determining Boris' fate. IMHO one of two things will happen at the end of October - the UK will not leave the EU or it will leave without a deal. The former being the most likely. But in either case Boris is stuffed, and the state of Labour is not going to make much difference.ydoethur said:
It should be, agreed.anothernick said:
Exactly. It's all downhill from here for Boris and the hill will be pretty steep. With a cliff edge at the end.ydoethur said:Given the baggage he carries, it's also hard to see how he turns it round. It's not like Corbyn, whom most people knew vaguely was a Bad Thing but didn't know much about until he started scattering largesse around. Boris Johnson has been a prominent public figure for 30-odd years in a series of high-profile roles and most people have already seen what he's like.
But with things so volatile at the moment and Labour in as bad a mess as the Tories, it may be that being less awful than the alternative will be good enough.0 -
Meanwhile. If you're having a bad day, remember that there's always someone worse off.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-491468960
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Not as badly as Corbynglw said:Imagine just for a moment that -3 for Boris and ~30% is the high-water mark for the Tories under the leadership of Britain Trump. Just how badly could they do at the next general election?
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I wish it were so, but he is actually on a mini bounce (back). His popularity ratings were -19% during the contest.JBriskinindyref2 said:lazy sleazy Boris on the slide.
Johnson fools some of the people all the time. Question is whether that's enough to keep him in power.
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Open goal for the Lib Dems but I remain of the opinion a huge fudged deal will happenanothernick said:
TBH I think the state of Labour is not going to be a significant factor in determining Boris' fate. IMHO one of two things will happen at the end of October - the UK will not leave the EU or it will leave without a deal. The former being the most likely. But in either case Boris is stuffed, and the state of Labour is not going to make much difference.ydoethur said:
It should be, agreed.anothernick said:
Exactly. It's all downhill from here for Boris and the hill will be pretty steep. With a cliff edge at the end.ydoethur said:Given the baggage he carries, it's also hard to see how he turns it round. It's not like Corbyn, whom most people knew vaguely was a Bad Thing but didn't know much about until he started scattering largesse around. Boris Johnson has been a prominent public figure for 30-odd years in a series of high-profile roles and most people have already seen what he's like.
But with things so volatile at the moment and Labour in as bad a mess as the Tories, it may be that being less awful than the alternative will be good enough.
It is obvious that neither of the main parties benefit by letting this continue without a resolution of some form0 -
Wishful thinking. The only way the state of Labour makes no difference is if the realistic alternative is the Liberal Democrats.anothernick said:
TBH I think the state of Labour is not going to be a significant factor in determining Boris' fate. IMHO one of two things will happen at the end of October - the UK will not leave the EU or it will leave without a deal. The former being the most likely. But in either case Boris is stuffed, and the state of Labour is not going to make much difference.ydoethur said:
It should be, agreed.anothernick said:
Exactly. It's all downhill from here for Boris and the hill will be pretty steep. With a cliff edge at the end.ydoethur said:Given the baggage he carries, it's also hard to see how he turns it round. It's not like Corbyn, whom most people knew vaguely was a Bad Thing but didn't know much about until he started scattering largesse around. Boris Johnson has been a prominent public figure for 30-odd years in a series of high-profile roles and most people have already seen what he's like.
But with things so volatile at the moment and Labour in as bad a mess as the Tories, it may be that being less awful than the alternative will be good enough.
Remember 1992.0 -
Fraser Nelson on why BJ’s team will not operate anything like TM’s did and why comparisons may be misplaced.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/07/the-new-boris-machine-owes-very-little-to-westminster/amp/?__twitter_impression=true1 -
+1 Nicely said Big_G!Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are a wonderful contributor to this site and I read all your threads and posts with great interest and respect. I do not agree with all you write but that is not a reason to become rude, but rather a reason to try to make my own views in a fair and sensible mannerCyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
Please have a glass of wine, relax and think of your gardening that gives you so much pleasure (as indeed our garden does for my dear wife) and continue to provide us with your interesting knowledge and views0 -
Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.0 -
"My friends, as I have discovered myself, there are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh disasters."
- Boris, 20040 -
Swinson being picked top PM by as many as Farage and Corbyn is a very good result for her first weeks in the job.0
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Also from Opinium ...
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1155554899809247232?s=210 -
All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.0
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That kind of rhetoric has already cost me several grim hours as I supported a very old friend through the breakdown of a relationship. His girlfriend is Slovenian and had a nervous breakdown due to silly remarks like this.SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.0 -
Specifically, if he reverts back to the version that won the London mayoralty twice on the bounce. Which is totally plausible, if you buy into the idea that it's all just an act in the first place.glw said:
Basically it might work if Boris isn't Boris. Hmmm.Endillion said:The second is that I think Johnson would probably do quite well out of an election campaign where he was front and centre, providing he played it more or less straight and cut out most of his usual histrionics.
Interestingly I seem to be in a minority on this, with the general view being that Johnson is such a known quantity by now that he can only become less popular. I'd argue the opposite: his detractors have maxed out by now (in other words, everyone who's going to hate him already does), but there are huge swathes of crucial voters all across the country who think they hate him, but haven't actually seen much of him yet. If he can keep the focus on good common sense policies that will actually benefit ordinary people (and he's made an excellent start by talking about bus services and infrastructure spending, rather than tax cuts for high earners) then he has plenty of room to surprise on the upside.0 -
It is all so unnecesaryydoethur said:
That kind of rhetoric has already cost me several grim hours as I supported a very old friend through the breakdown of a relationship. His girlfriend is Slovenian and had a nervous breakdown due to silly remarks like this.SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.0 -
Yep, No Deal does scare me, I have to say. I think it will be hugely damaging. You might get through it OK in Spain, but I’m not sure it will be so easy for millions of people living in the UK.felix said:All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.
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I don't "attack" Cyclefree. I criticise her poorly written thread headers and then she gets very passive-aggressive with me. Maybe she just gets fawned over all the time so it has come as a bit of a surprise to her.Endillion said:
I'm happy to confirm that I find your attacks on Cyclefree misguided as well as tedious, and also that you should learn how and when to use commas.JBriskinindyref2 said:
Yup always better to continue an argument into the next thread I find.Cyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
Laters
On topic: I think there are two important points to be made here. One is that Johnson's leadership rating are inevitably tarnished by the hangover of May's appalling ratings towards the end of her time in office, and the spillover onto the Tory brand. The second is that I think Johnson would probably do quite well out of an election campaign where he was front and centre, providing he played it more or less straight and cut out most of his usual histrionics.
As Edmund Burke stated-
"Because half a dozen grasshoppers under a fern make the field ring with their importunate chink, whilst thousands of great cattle, reposed beneath the shadow of the British oak, chew the cud and are silent, pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field."0 -
Not when you’re after the BXP vote.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is all so unnecessaryydoethur said:
That kind of rhetoric has already cost me several grim hours as I supported a very old friend through the breakdown of a relationship. His girlfriend is Slovenian and had a nervous breakdown due to silly remarks like this.SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.0 -
But I don't think Boris will lose a GE -I don't think he will even get that far. He will be forced out in the same way as May. The dire state of Labour played no part in her downfall and it will be the same for Boris.ydoethur said:
Wishful thinking. The only way the state of Labour makes no difference is if the realistic alternative is the Liberal Democrats.anothernick said:
TBH I think the state of Labour is not going to be a significant factor in determining Boris' fate. IMHO one of two things will happen at the end of October - the UK will not leave the EU or it will leave without a deal. The former being the most likely. But in either case Boris is stuffed, and the state of Labour is not going to make much difference.ydoethur said:
It should be, agreed.anothernick said:
Exactly. It's all downhill from here for Boris and the hill will be pretty steep. With a cliff edge at the end.ydoethur said:Given the baggage he carries, it's also hard to see how he turns it round. It's not like Corbyn, whom most people knew vaguely was a Bad Thing but didn't know much about until he started scattering largesse around. Boris Johnson has been a prominent public figure for 30-odd years in a series of high-profile roles and most people have already seen what he's like.
But with things so volatile at the moment and Labour in as bad a mess as the Tories, it may be that being less awful than the alternative will be good enough.
Remember 1992.0 -
It will be a disaster for many in the EU as wellSouthamObserver said:
Yep, No Deal does scare me, I have to say. I think it will be hugely damaging. You might get through it OK in Spain, but I’m not sure it will be so easy for millions of people living in the UK.felix said:All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.
If it happens, the consequences not only for UK politicians but leaders in the EU could be very serious indeed.
And Junckers plus Barnier legacy will be trashed0 -
He thinks Dominic Cummings has a 55% chance of getting a deal with the EU. Which is...TGOHF said:Fraser Nelson on why BJ’s team will not operate anything like TM’s did and why comparisons may be misplaced.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/07/the-new-boris-machine-owes-very-little-to-westminster/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
A) Remarkably precise for an estimate, and
b) Provides absolutely no evidence or justification for such a bold claim, other than he has successfully campaigned in a number of referendums. Which is hardly a comparable situation.0 -
Boris has started his tenure as PM with a more hostile exposure in the media and by commentators than any previous PM I can remember.
That negative exposure (if the media /commentators have any resonance with the public) is likely to have the effect of depressing his ratings early on. At the moment people will be responding according to the low expectations they have been fed. This will offer him the chance to improve ratings if he avoids failure, controversy and stupidity.
It is always easier to exceed low expectations than meet high expectations.2 -
There is one No Deal constant: it hurts us a lot more than it hurts them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be a disaster for many in the EU as wellSouthamObserver said:
Yep, No Deal does scare me, I have to say. I think it will be hugely damaging. You might get through it OK in Spain, but I’m not sure it will be so easy for millions of people living in the UK.felix said:All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.
If it happens, the consequences not only for UK politicians but leaders in the EU could be very serious indeed.
And Junckers plus Barnier legacy will be trashed
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It is still unnecessarySouthamObserver said:
Not when you’re after the BXP vote.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is all so unnecessaryydoethur said:
That kind of rhetoric has already cost me several grim hours as I supported a very old friend through the breakdown of a relationship. His girlfriend is Slovenian and had a nervous breakdown due to silly remarks like this.SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.0 -
It's possible that No Deal won't amount to much, I don't think it's likely but I can entertian the possibility of it not being disruptive. But we live in a country where a bit of snow, or some very hot days, or a drone around an airport, can all cause a lot of disruption and public anguish. It makes no sense to choose a cliff edge rather than a gradual transition for the change of our relationship with the EU, if we can potentially negotiate a deal. I wish we'd already left the EU by now, but if it takes another 6 months more, or even a year or two, to get a deal then we should choose to do that and exit the EU smoothly.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, No Deal does scare me, I have to say. I think it will be hugely damaging. You might get through it OK in Spain, but I’m not sure it will be so easy for millions of people living in the UK.felix said:All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.
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Maybe, but if it happens it is a collective failure of politicians and leaders here and throughout the EUSouthamObserver said:
There is one No Deal constant: it hurts us a lot more than it hurts them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be a disaster for many in the EU as wellSouthamObserver said:
Yep, No Deal does scare me, I have to say. I think it will be hugely damaging. You might get through it OK in Spain, but I’m not sure it will be so easy for millions of people living in the UK.felix said:All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.
If it happens, the consequences not only for UK politicians but leaders in the EU could be very serious indeed.
And Junckers plus Barnier legacy will be trashed0 -
Depends which entity reacts better. 3 years of May and Hammond may have fooled us into thinking govt can’t be proactive but Boris ‘s team could take a radical approach.SouthamObserver said:
There is one No Deal constant: it hurts us a lot more than it hurts them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be a disaster for many in the EU as wellSouthamObserver said:
Yep, No Deal does scare me, I have to say. I think it will be hugely damaging. You might get through it OK in Spain, but I’m not sure it will be so easy for millions of people living in the UK.felix said:All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.
If it happens, the consequences not only for UK politicians but leaders in the EU could be very serious indeed.
And Junckers plus Barnier legacy will be trashed0 -
People love this kind of Boris-speak. But, on reflection, it is just meaningless twaddle.Sunil_Prasannan said:"My friends, as I have discovered myself, there are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh disasters."
- Boris, 2004
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I did indeed miss it, because I wasn't a member. I'm tempted to rejoin now though, I feel as a socially liberal Tory that I've got my party back now May's gone.Beibheirli_C said:
Perhaps you missed the recent voting by Tory members?Philip_Thompson said:
A vote on what?Beibheirli_C said:
So why not express that support with a vote?Philip_Thompson said:
Not really, Boris is putting forward the kind of policies Big_G himself supports so why shouldn't he be applauding those policies?Beibheirli_C said:
Indeed, but it is quite the volte face.CarlottaVance said:
Why? Is he not allowed to change his mind?Beibheirli_C said:
A couple of weeks ago you could not bring yourself to vote for Boris, now you are applauding warmly on all but one policy.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris still is on tne social left as you will see as he unveils more of his domestic agendaDougSeal said:
Who, Boris or Berlusconi? Boris was on the liberal social left when he wanted to win in London. Not now. Priti Patel as HS? He may go there again, if it suits him, as with everything else. If you mean Berlusconi, apologies.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I oppose Boris on no deal but not the policies he is putting forward
Incredible!
One way of showing you have a mind is being prepared to change it.....
It would be rather hypocritical or closed-minded to oppose a politician putting forward what you've previously suggested, because of who it is.
We're not due another vote on anything until after 31 October now at which point Schrodinger's Brexit should have been resolved.
*sigh!*
I suspect and hope it will be many years before there's another leadership election though.0 -
Great appointment!Scott_P said:0 -
Chuck Norris!0
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Good appointmentScott_P said:0 -
Yep, I agree. Of course, the less disruptive No Deal is in the UK the less disruptive it will be in the EU27. That still leaves us worse off than them because we’ll have no prospect of trade deals with our two biggest export markets and reduced access to dozens more. We lose most whichever way you look at it.glw said:
It's possible that No Deal won't amount to much, I don't think it's likely but I can entertian the possibility of it not being disruptive. But we live in a country where a bit of snow, or some very hot days, or a drone around an airport, can all cause a lot of disruption and public anguish. It makes no sense to choose a cliff edge rather than a gradual transition for the change of our relationship with the EU, if we can potentially negotiate a deal. I wish we'd already left the EU by now, but if it takes another 6 months more, or even a year or two, to get a deal then we should choose to do that and exit the EU smoothly.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, No Deal does scare me, I have to say. I think it will be hugely damaging. You might get through it OK in Spain, but I’m not sure it will be so easy for millions of people living in the UK.felix said:All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.
0 -
Personally, I find it rather disturbing that given the choice of Johnson, Corbyn or Farage only 12% of my fellow countryman opt for Swinson as best PM. It's really not that difficult ...0
-
Southam, you do not understand. They need our [ devalued ] pound. They will be only too happy to let us in.SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.0 -
The narrow pathway isanothernick said:
TBH I think the state of Labour is not going to be a significant factor in determining Boris' fate. IMHO one of two things will happen at the end of October - the UK will not leave the EU or it will leave without a deal. The former being the most likely. But in either case Boris is stuffed, and the state of Labour is not going to make much difference.ydoethur said:
It should be, agreed.anothernick said:
Exactly. It's all downhill from here for Boris and the hill will be pretty steep. With a cliff edge at the end.ydoethur said:Given the baggage he carries, it's also hard to see how he turns it round. It's not like Corbyn, whom most people knew vaguely was a Bad Thing but didn't know much about until he started scattering largesse around. Boris Johnson has been a prominent public figure for 30-odd years in a series of high-profile roles and most people have already seen what he's like.
But with things so volatile at the moment and Labour in as bad a mess as the Tories, it may be that being less awful than the alternative will be good enough.
I think that's entirely possible as long as he doesn't have to get Brexit through. Johnson might get away with saying, Brexit is boring, let's talk about something else. Alternatively be might get away with dressing up the mediocrity of a May type deal as something exciting and buccaneering. But if he's playing hardball he's not playing to his strengths.Endillion said:
Specifically, if he reverts back to the version that won the London mayoralty twice on the bounce. Which is totally plausible, if you buy into the idea that it's all just an act in the first place.glw said:
Basically it might work if Boris isn't Boris. Hmmm.Endillion said:The second is that I think Johnson would probably do quite well out of an election campaign where he was front and centre, providing he played it more or less straight and cut out most of his usual histrionics.
Interestingly I seem to be in a minority on this, with the general view being that Johnson is such a known quantity by now that he can only become less popular. I'd argue the opposite: his detractors have maxed out by now (in other words, everyone who's going to hate him already does), but there are huge swathes of crucial voters all across the country who think they hate him, but haven't actually seen much of him yet. If he can keep the focus on good common sense policies that will actually benefit ordinary people (and he's made an excellent start by talking about bus services and infrastructure spending, rather than tax cuts for high earners) then he has plenty of room to surprise on the upside.0 -
What negative exposure, in which media, are you referring to Philip?philiph said:Boris has started his tenure as PM with a more hostile exposure in the media and by commentators than any previous PM I can remember.
That negative exposure (if the media /commentators have any resonance with the public) is likely to have the effect of depressing his ratings early on. At the moment people will be responding according to the low expectations they have been fed. This will offer him the chance to improve ratings if he avoids failure, controversy and stupidity.
It is always easier to exceed low expectations than meet high expectations.0 -
Most people really don't think in those terms. Maybe they should but they don't and let's face it the past 6 years of scaremongering and forecasts of doom have really not been borne out in most folk's reality. I find my family are pretty fatalistic and meh about the whole business now. They want closure.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, No Deal does scare me, I have to say. I think it will be hugely damaging. You might get through it OK in Spain, but I’m not sure it will be so easy for millions of people living in the UK.felix said:All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.
0 -
Does she mean visas for tourism, or an end to free movement to move here?SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.
Visas for tourism would be an absurd situation to be in. Treating EU citizens the same as we treat Australian, Kiwi, Canadian and American citizens would be perfectly reasonable.0 -
Most of the public will say 'who'ThomasNashe said:Personally, I find it rather disturbing that given the choice of Johnson, Corbyn or Farage only 12% of my fellow countryman opt for Swinson as best PM. It's really not that difficult ...
She needs lots of time in the news cycle0 -
She probably doesn't know what she means herself.Philip_Thompson said:
Does she mean visas for tourism, or an end to free movement to move here?SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.
Visas for tourism would be an absurd situation to be in. Treating EU citizens the same as we treat Australian, Kiwi, Canadian and American citizens would be perfectly reasonable.0 -
-
Thank you and to @FF43 and others for your kind comments.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are a wonderful contributor to this site and I read all your threads and posts with great interest and respect. I do not agree with all you write but that is not a reason to become rude, but rather a reason to try to make my own views in a fair and sensible mannerCyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
Please have a glass of wine, relax and think of your gardening that gives you so much pleasure (as indeed our garden does for my dear wife) and continue to provide us with your interesting knowledge and views
I will forego the glass of wine as I am trying to lose weight. And I have a busy and difficult work day tomorrow so want to have a clear head. My son is cooking a lovely chicken soup he has made his own: chicken with leeks and prunes and I will have that later after watering the garden. Lots of lovely pink nerines planted today. I hope they will flower.0 -
Your criticisms aren't particularly constructive. Perhaps you could work on that.JBriskinindyref2 said:
I don't "attack" Cyclefree. I criticise her poorly written thread headers and then she gets very passive-aggressive with me. Maybe she just gets fawned over all the time so it has come as a bit of a surprise to her.Endillion said:
I'm happy to confirm that I find your attacks on Cyclefree misguided as well as tedious, and also that you should learn how and when to use commas.JBriskinindyref2 said:
Yup always better to continue an argument into the next thread I find.Cyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
Laters
On topic: I think there are two important points to be made here. One is that Johnson's leadership rating are inevitably tarnished by the hangover of May's appalling ratings towards the end of her time in office, and the spillover onto the Tory brand. The second is that I think Johnson would probably do quite well out of an election campaign where he was front and centre, providing he played it more or less straight and cut out most of his usual histrionics.
As Edmund Burke stated-
"Because half a dozen grasshoppers under a fern make the field ring with their importunate chink, whilst thousands of great cattle, reposed beneath the shadow of the British oak, chew the cud and are silent, pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field."0 -
Wonder if the cretins still believe it's going to hurt them more than us?0
-
55% is not a remarkably precise estimate, its a go-to for saying roughly 50-50 but one option is slightly more likely.dixiedean said:
He thinks Dominic Cummings has a 55% chance of getting a deal with the EU. Which is...TGOHF said:Fraser Nelson on why BJ’s team will not operate anything like TM’s did and why comparisons may be misplaced.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/07/the-new-boris-machine-owes-very-little-to-westminster/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
A) Remarkably precise for an estimate, and
b) Provides absolutely no evidence or justification for such a bold claim, other than he has successfully campaigned in a number of referendums. Which is hardly a comparable situation.
Incidentally from memory as a Poker player 55% is roughly the same odds pre-flop of Pocket 6's holding up against someone with an Ace and a King. I like to bet high and get a heads-up bet whenever I have low pockets and I can tell you I've zero confidence once there's a caller it can definitely go either way.0 -
They’re not going to get it for a long, long time!felix said:
Most people really don't think in those terms. Maybe they should but they don't and let's face it the past 6 years of scaremongering and forecasts of doom have really not been borne out in most folk's reality. I find my family are pretty fatalistic and meh about the whole business now. They want closure.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, No Deal does scare me, I have to say. I think it will be hugely damaging. You might get through it OK in Spain, but I’m not sure it will be so easy for millions of people living in the UK.felix said:All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.
0 -
The key thing for Boris is he comfortably leads Corbyn, Swinson and Farage as best PM. Unless that changes it does not really matter if his personal approval rating is negative0
-
If she attacks me again - you can guarantee it.Endillion said:
Your criticisms aren't particularly constructive. Perhaps you could work on that.JBriskinindyref2 said:
I don't "attack" Cyclefree. I criticise her poorly written thread headers and then she gets very passive-aggressive with me. Maybe she just gets fawned over all the time so it has come as a bit of a surprise to her.Endillion said:
I'm happy to confirm that I find your attacks on Cyclefree misguided as well as tedious, and also that you should learn how and when to use commas.JBriskinindyref2 said:
Yup always better to continue an argument into the next thread I find.Cyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
Laters
On topic: I think there are two important points to be made here. One is that Johnson's leadership rating are inevitably tarnished by the hangover of May's appalling ratings towards the end of her time in office, and the spillover onto the Tory brand. The second is that I think Johnson would probably do quite well out of an election campaign where he was front and centre, providing he played it more or less straight and cut out most of his usual histrionics.
As Edmund Burke stated-
"Because half a dozen grasshoppers under a fern make the field ring with their importunate chink, whilst thousands of great cattle, reposed beneath the shadow of the British oak, chew the cud and are silent, pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field."0 -
She says automatic right of entry.Philip_Thompson said:
Does she mean visas for tourism, or an end to free movement to move here?SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.
Visas for tourism would be an absurd situation to be in. Treating EU citizens the same as we treat Australian, Kiwi, Canadian and American citizens would be perfectly reasonable.
0 -
Depends how you define hurt.bigjohnowls said:Wonder if the cretins still believe it's going to hurt them more than us?
IMNSHO if the EU continues to insist upon the backstop it will under our new leadership hurt the EU more than it hurts us, which wasn't the case under May. Which is why they should drop it.0 -
I wish you well on the weight front.Cyclefree said:
Thank you and to @FF43 for your kind comments.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are a wonderful contributor to this site and I read all your threads and posts with great interest and respect. I do not agree with all you write but that is not a reason to become rude, but rather a reason to try to make my own views in a fair and sensible mannerCyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
Please have a glass of wine, relax and think of your gardening that gives you so much pleasure (as indeed our garden does for my dear wife) and continue to provide us with your interesting knowledge and views
I will forego the glass of wine as I am trying to lose weight. And I have a busy and difficult work day tomorrow so want to have a clear head. My son is cooking a lovely chicken soup he has made his own: chicken with leeks and prunes and I will have that later after watering the garden. Lots of lovely pink nerines planted today. I hope they will flower.
I have lost over 15 kgs since april but discovered that a glass of red wine is actually good for you, in moderation of course
The chicken soup sounds very appealing0 -
It's never the fall which kills you, it's always the landing. The past 6 years were the fall, closure is the landing.felix said:
Most people really don't think in those terms. Maybe they should but they don't and let's face it the past 6 years of scaremongering and forecasts of doom have really not been borne out in most folk's reality. I find my family are pretty fatalistic and meh about the whole business now. They want closure.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, No Deal does scare me, I have to say. I think it will be hugely damaging. You might get through it OK in Spain, but I’m not sure it will be so easy for millions of people living in the UK.felix said:All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.
2 -
Yes but which does she mean by that?SouthamObserver said:
She says automatic right of entry.Philip_Thompson said:
Does she mean visas for tourism, or an end to free movement to move here?SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.
Visas for tourism would be an absurd situation to be in. Treating EU citizens the same as we treat Australian, Kiwi, Canadian and American citizens would be perfectly reasonable.0 -
They need approval to enter.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes but which does she mean by that?SouthamObserver said:
She says automatic right of entry.Philip_Thompson said:
Does she mean visas for tourism, or an end to free movement to move here?SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.
Visas for tourism would be an absurd situation to be in. Treating EU citizens the same as we treat Australian, Kiwi, Canadian and American citizens would be perfectly reasonable.
0 -
Really? It's looked like the Borisgraph to me for the last couple of months.ThomasNashe said:0 -
That would change rapidly during a GE campaign.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Most of the public will say 'who'ThomasNashe said:Personally, I find it rather disturbing that given the choice of Johnson, Corbyn or Farage only 12% of my fellow countryman opt for Swinson as best PM. It's really not that difficult ...
She needs lots of time in the news cycle0 -
What kind of approval?SouthamObserver said:
They need approval to enter.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes but which does she mean by that?SouthamObserver said:
She says automatic right of entry.Philip_Thompson said:
Does she mean visas for tourism, or an end to free movement to move here?SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.
Visas for tourism would be an absurd situation to be in. Treating EU citizens the same as we treat Australian, Kiwi, Canadian and American citizens would be perfectly reasonable.
Americans need approval to enter to move here, but they can get a visa waiver if they're coming for a holiday etc - that is a sane solution for Europeans too, anything else is insane.0 -
You should know. You are their biggest cheerleader. I do not know exactly how we treat the people from the nations you mention. To go to Australia, we have to buy an online visa but to the USA, I believe no visa is required if the stay is less than 3 months. Unless that has changed.Philip_Thompson said:
Does she mean visas for tourism, or an end to free movement to move here?SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.
Visas for tourism would be an absurd situation to be in. Treating EU citizens the same as we treat Australian, Kiwi, Canadian and American citizens would be perfectly reasonable.
0 -
I have to say the coverage of Boris has been generally euphoric especially from, not surprisingly, the pro-Conservative press. He comes into the job with more "back story" than most recent Prime Ministers and especially the likes of May and to an extent Major who weren't well known by the general public and coming into the job via an internal election is rather different from winning a general election.Benpointer said:
What negative exposure, in which media, are you referring to Philip?philiph said:Boris has started his tenure as PM with a more hostile exposure in the media and by commentators than any previous PM I can remember.
That negative exposure (if the media /commentators have any resonance with the public) is likely to have the effect of depressing his ratings early on. At the moment people will be responding according to the low expectations they have been fed. This will offer him the chance to improve ratings if he avoids failure, controversy and stupidity.
It is always easier to exceed low expectations than meet high expectations.
Nonetheless, there has been a clear media spin to project what has happened as a real change of Government and to be fair a lot of those who prospered in the Cameron and May periods are gone and a lot of the new Cabinet aren't again well known.
Interesting to see the old familiar "I voted Remain but the vote must be honoured and we must leave" argument coming out for an airing. If a turkey knew what voting for Christmas meant it would probably want to annul its vote. I voted LEAVE but I didn't vote to inflict catastrophic economic damage on myself or the country by crashing out without a WA so perhaps the turkey has a point.0 -
I have done nothing of the kind. I pointed out that your criticisms of certain phrases were criticisms of phrases used by Boris i.e. quotes. If you don't like their style go after him.JBriskinindyref2 said:
I don't "attack" Cyclefree. I criticise her poorly written thread headers and then she gets very passive-aggressive with me. Maybe she just gets fawned over all the time so it has come as a bit of a surprise to her.Endillion said:
I'm happy to confirm that I find your attacks on Cyclefree misguided as well as tedious, and also that you should learn how and when to use commas.JBriskinindyref2 said:
Yup always better to continue an argument into the next thread I find.Cyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
Laters
On topic: I think there are two important points to be made here. One is that Johnson's leadership rating are inevitably tarnished by the hangover of May's appalling ratings towards the end of her time in office, and the spillover onto the Tory brand. The second is that I think Johnson would probably do quite well out of an election campaign where he was front and centre, providing he played it more or less straight and cut out most of his usual histrionics.
As Edmund Burke stated-
"Because half a dozen grasshoppers under a fern make the field ring with their importunate chink, whilst thousands of great cattle, reposed beneath the shadow of the British oak, chew the cud and are silent, pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field."
I'm fine with you not liking or disagreeing with my headers. Why don't you write one yourself and see if it is accepted.
I have rarely in my life been fawned over.
Still, someone who likes Edmund Burke, one of my great political heroes, is not all bad. It's a very good quote.
Have a lovely evening.0 -
You need an ESTA for the US.surbiton19 said:
You should know. You are their biggest cheerleader. I do not know exactly how we treat the people from the nations you mention. To go to Australia, we have to buy an online visa but to the USA, I believe no visa is required if the stay is less than 3 months. Unless that has changed.Philip_Thompson said:
Does she mean visas for tourism, or an end to free movement to move here?SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.
Visas for tourism would be an absurd situation to be in. Treating EU citizens the same as we treat Australian, Kiwi, Canadian and American citizens would be perfectly reasonable.
0 -
She needs it before then and to be honest she probably willBenpointer said:
That would change rapidly during a GE campaign.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Most of the public will say 'who'ThomasNashe said:Personally, I find it rather disturbing that given the choice of Johnson, Corbyn or Farage only 12% of my fellow countryman opt for Swinson as best PM. It's really not that difficult ...
She needs lots of time in the news cycle0 -
Barnier was the man who finally made a small admission about the extent of BSE in France (which amounted to more cases than the rest of the world added together). So his legacy as an honest if unimaginative man is secure.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be a disaster for many in the EU as wellSouthamObserver said:
Yep, No Deal does scare me, I have to say. I think it will be hugely damaging. You might get through it OK in Spain, but I’m not sure it will be so easy for millions of people living in the UK.felix said:All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.
If it happens, the consequences not only for UK politicians but leaders in the EU could be very serious indeed.
And Junckers plus Barnier legacy will be trashed
Juncker' legacy is that of a man who was forced to resign after it was found the security services were rigging elections in his favour and whose tax deals would disgrace the Virgin Islands. He also reduced the credibility of the Commission to zero and left us a series of videos of drunkenness in public that even Yeltsin would blush at.
It's hard to see how he tops that legacy, so I'm not bothered about that.
What No Deal does represent is a failure of salesmanship, but that's May's fault, not theirs.0 -
I agree. My guess is that she doesn’t know what she is talking about.Philip_Thompson said:
What kind of approval?SouthamObserver said:
They need approval to enter.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes but which does she mean by that?SouthamObserver said:
She says automatic right of entry.Philip_Thompson said:
Does she mean visas for tourism, or an end to free movement to move here?SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.
Visas for tourism would be an absurd situation to be in. Treating EU citizens the same as we treat Australian, Kiwi, Canadian and American citizens would be perfectly reasonable.
Americans need approval to enter to move here, but they can get a visa waiver if they're coming for a holiday etc - that is a sane solution for Europeans too, anything else is insane.
0 -
How will it hurt them more?Philip_Thompson said:
Depends how you define hurt.bigjohnowls said:Wonder if the cretins still believe it's going to hurt them more than us?
IMNSHO if the EU continues to insist upon the backstop it will under our new leadership hurt the EU more than it hurts us, which wasn't the case under May. Which is why they should drop it.
0 -
Our circa 280 bn exports subject to wto terms hurts a lot. The 340bn imports hurt is split 26 ways German hurt eg is 20% of our hurt France 15% etc etc. Gove must be a thick fuckerPhilip_Thompson said:
Depends how you define hurt.bigjohnowls said:Wonder if the cretins still believe it's going to hurt them more than us?
IMNSHO if the EU continues to insist upon the backstop it will under our new leadership hurt the EU more than it hurts us, which wasn't the case under May. Which is why they should drop it.0 -
I think they forgot about him. He had to telephone No.10 instead.Scott_P said:
0 -
ESTA for US and an ETA for Canadasurbiton19 said:
You should know. You are their biggest cheerleader. I do not know exactly how we treat the people from the nations you mention. To go to Australia, we have to buy an online visa but to the USA, I believe no visa is required if the stay is less than 3 months. Unless that has changed.Philip_Thompson said:
Does she mean visas for tourism, or an end to free movement to move here?SouthamObserver said:Interesting that Priti Patel talks about ending EU citizens’ automatic right of entry to the UK in her MoS article today. Two thoughts on that:
1. Visas for visits to the UK for them means visas for us to visit EU countries.
2. You can’t end automatic entry without a hard border in Northern Ireland.
Visas for tourism would be an absurd situation to be in. Treating EU citizens the same as we treat Australian, Kiwi, Canadian and American citizens would be perfectly reasonable.0 -
Having written a couple of headers myself, I appreciate your efforts even when I disagree.Cyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
In terms of style they read well to me. The hardest bit I find is keeping it down to a reasonable length.0 -
So if I understand the Con/Leave (yes, I know you voted Remain) party line, it goes like this:Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be a disaster for many in the EU as wellSouthamObserver said:
Yep, No Deal does scare me, I have to say. I think it will be hugely damaging. You might get through it OK in Spain, but I’m not sure it will be so easy for millions of people living in the UK.felix said:All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.
If it happens, the consequences not only for UK politicians but leaders in the EU could be very serious indeed.
And Junckers plus Barnier legacy will be trashed
1) No Deal holds no fear to the United Kingdom. It is sufficiently large and advanced to cope with No Deal, even with less than one hundred days to prepare
2) No Deal holds enormous fear to the EU, despite the fact that it is seven times larger than us and did most of its No Deal preparation earlier this year.
I hope I do not need to use sarcasm or other rude technique to point out the problems with that logic.0 -
FTFYbigjohnowls said:Gove is a thick fucker
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"pottering in the garden" again I see.Cyclefree said:
I have done nothing of the kind. I pointed out that your criticisms of certain phrases were criticisms of phrases used by Boris i.e. quotes. If you don't like their style go after him.JBriskinindyref2 said:
I don't "attack" Cyclefree. I criticise her poorly written thread headers and then she gets very passive-aggressive with me. Maybe she just gets fawned over all the time so it has come as a bit of a surprise to her.Endillion said:
I'm happy to confirm that I find your attacks on Cyclefree misguided as well as tedious, and also that you should learn how and when to use commas.JBriskinindyref2 said:
Yup always better to continue an argument into the next thread I find.Cyclefree said:I'm not quite sure why @JBriskinindyref2 has it in for me. But I suggest that he drops it. He doesn't like my headers. I don't suppose he's alone. It doesn't bother me but the nit-picking over every other word etc, must be tedious for others on here.
Oh - and BTW - it's "vassal" with an "a" not an "e".
I can do nit-picking too. And I hate bad spelling. But hey it might be the typing.
Anyway, time to have a nice evening.
Laters
On topic: I think there are two important points to be made here. One is that Johnson's leadership rating are inevitably tarnished by the hangover of May's appalling ratings towards the end of her time in office, and the spillover onto the Tory brand. The second is that I think Johnson would probably do quite well out of an election campaign where he was front and centre, providing he played it more or less straight and cut out most of his usual histrionics.
As Edmund Burke stated-
"Because half a dozen grasshoppers under a fern make the field ring with their importunate chink, whilst thousands of great cattle, reposed beneath the shadow of the British oak, chew the cud and are silent, pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field."
I'm fine with you not liking or disagreeing with my headers. Why don't you write one yourself and see if it is accepted.
I have rarely in my life been fawned over.
Still, someone who likes Edmund Burke, one of my great political heroes, is not all bad. It's a very good quote.
Have a lovely evening.
Burke is an arch tory - it's no surprise you like him.
I did write a thread header - I posted it on the last thread. I wish you could keep your drivel to the comments part - but they're probably too long.0 -
GITFWNBPMydoethur said:0 -
More likely he has been anguishing over whether to sign 'the pledge'.surbiton19 said:0 -
Of course, if the UK lowers most tariffs the EU hurt will be significantly reduced - and there will be no need for anyone to do a trade deal with us.bigjohnowls said:
Our circa 280 bn exports subject to wto terms hurts a lot. The 340bn imports hurt is split 26 ways German hurt eg is 20% of our hurt France 15% etc etc. Gove must be a thick fuckerPhilip_Thompson said:
Depends how you define hurt.bigjohnowls said:Wonder if the cretins still believe it's going to hurt them more than us?
IMNSHO if the EU continues to insist upon the backstop it will under our new leadership hurt the EU more than it hurts us, which wasn't the case under May. Which is why they should drop it.
0 -
I do hope not. Boris is bad, Gove would be - unimaginable.bigjohnowls said:
GITFWNBPMydoethur said:0 -
I am sure her profile will increase over the coming weeks anyway but the GE will only occur at the end of a GE campaign, and during the campaign she will inevitably get a lot of airtime.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She needs it before then and to be honest she probably willBenpointer said:
That would change rapidly during a GE campaign.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Most of the public will say 'who'ThomasNashe said:Personally, I find it rather disturbing that given the choice of Johnson, Corbyn or Farage only 12% of my fellow countryman opt for Swinson as best PM. It's really not that difficult ...
She needs lots of time in the news cycle0 -
I do not subscribe to either 1 or 2.viewcode said:
So if I understand the Con/Leave (yes, I know you voted Remain) party line, it goes like this:Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be a disaster for many in the EU as wellSouthamObserver said:
Yep, No Deal does scare me, I have to say. I think it will be hugely damaging. You might get through it OK in Spain, but I’m not sure it will be so easy for millions of people living in the UK.felix said:All the carping against Bojo on here, twitter and elsewhere is totally tedious. Talking with my family this week - they're staying with us on holiday - what struck me was the only thing they really want now is to get Brexit done. Like me we all voted remain - but they just want it done and like me they believe the vote must be honoured. I think this factor is the biggest reason for the 'bounce'. If he 'gets it done' he'll sweep all before him and if not he'll be an amusing footnote in History. But the sense of palpable panic on the left and also from 'Remain' from a few lousy polls suggests to me that they are shit scared.
If it happens, the consequences not only for UK politicians but leaders in the EU could be very serious indeed.
And Junckers plus Barnier legacy will be trashed
1) No Deal holds no fear to the United Kingdom. It is sufficiently large and advanced to cope with No Deal, even with less than one hundred days to prepare
2) No Deal holds enormous fear to the EU, despite the fact that it is seven times larger than us and did most of its No Deal preparation earlier this year.
I hope I do not need to use sarcasm or other rude technique to point out the problems with that logic.
No deal is idiotic and will damage us, but also the EU and will cause massive disruption and ill will
Each side is playing a dangerous game and I just hope somewhere a deal comes forward to mitigate some of the damage0
