I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Funny I've been a supporter and member of the Tories almost all my political life precisely because I am a Thatcherite and Libertarian. Why should that be horrific hard right?
Because you want to suspend democracy to achieve your ends.
I don't. I want an autumn election, that's not suspending democracy.
If Corbyn Labour are not careful Swinson's LDs will end up leading to the opposition to Boris' Tories instead
... of concentrating on a large number of seats in the SE and SW where they are a realistic challenge to the Tories and where cheesed off remainers could allow them to derive the Tories of their majority."
Just finishing off the sentence for you.
With danger of sounding like @HYUFD the latest YouGov suggests Laura Pidcock and Emily Thornberry would lose their seats to the Lib Dems...
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
Just like in late April 2010!
You do live in the past when we are in a political climate unique in peacetime
Times have changed and Corbyn has been found out
I am blessed with a very good memory - and sense of history. I have never been drawn to bandwaggons at any level.
There is a risk at the moment when calling a VONC that the Tory parties retort with let's have an election then....
While calling one is the sensible thing to do and essential it really needs to be delayed until Parliament returns after the Party Conferences when the chance of an election before October 31st has past...
I am not entirely convinced by that to be honest. Failing to get a VNOC paseed now would not have prevented Corbyn trying again in September! Thatcher made several unsuccessful attempts at this in 1977/78 - and eventually succeeded. As it is, he could - at worst - expect to get much closer now than back in January - with four Tories now on the Opposition benches and two new Labour MPs. I suspect also that Lady Hermon would be much less inclined to support Boris Johnson than she was to help out Theresa May. Some signs that Alan Duncan might support such a vote. It would be pretty tight - single figures.
Makes me wonder what Duncan would have to do for you to take it as a definite sign?
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
Prediction. Boris and co will go round Europe but get nowhere with negotiations, partly because there is no one on the EU side with authority, and partly Nothing Has Changed. That takes to September where Parliament attempts to block No Deal. If they are successful, Boris calls a No Deal election to crush the saboteurs. If unsuccessful No Deal goes ahead on the Day of the Dead.
No. I do not want a hard left Labour leader. I would like there to be a strong effective Labour leader. The hard left are not effective because they are more interested in fighting amongst themselves and ideological purity.
I used to vote Labour. I turned to the Lib Dems because I could not stomach Blair's authoritarian approach to civil liberties.
We all lose out when there is no effective opposition. We need one now more than ever.
If this government did fall I would cheer and would vote Lib Dem. Indeed I hope they replace Labour if Labour stay in the grip of Corbyn and his pals.
In the meanwhile a government which badly needs being held to account will likely get away with stuff because Labour are AWOL.
That wasn't my question.
Which was - given we DO have a hard left Labour leader would you rather he was (a) highly effective and on track to be PM or (b) piss poor and thus highly unlikely to ever get into power?
It's (b) - of course it is. That is clear.
Therefore your beautifully written piece is insincere.
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
Just like in late April 2010!
Except that the Lib Dems ought to have learned from experience this time.
Labour was more exposed then after 13 years in Government - much more on the defensive.
By the time Labour table a VONC it will be too late to stop no deal short of replacing the government prior to an election. I assume you will three line whip in favour of Ken Clarke?
If you think that Corbyn will back Clarke or anyone but himself I have a bridge to sell you!
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Funny I've been a supporter and member of the Tories almost all my political life precisely because I am a Thatcherite and Libertarian. Why should that be horrific hard right?
Because you want to suspend democracy to achieve your ends.
I don't. I want an autumn election, that's not suspending democracy.
You are happy to prorogue Parliament to force through a no deal Brexit that wasn’t voted for.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
No one pays any attention to the Commons , it’s irrelevant how well Johnson does in his exchanges with Corbyn .
He will be judged on his record not one liners in the Commons . If he doesn’t deliver Brexit by October 31 st he’s in big trouble .
His only way of avoiding being held responsible is if MPs take it out of his hands , at which point we’ll get a Lectern speech where he’ll blame them , have an anti EU tirade and call an election .
With Cummings in no 10 Bozo might feel he can win , the election will descend into nationalism on steroids , with a version of the Trump playbook with some extra Latin thrown in for good measure .
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Not Thatcherites. Opponents of democracy.
Your stuck record is rather boring Mr Meeks
I’m sorry you’re bored that Conservatives are flirting with suspending democracy. It seems quite important to me.
It is very important indeed. I share your concerns and am glad you are making them. I think there is a perceptible threat to our democracy in a way which I never expected to see. And that is what this thread header and my last one were about.
Anyway, I need to water my garden. The threatened storm has passed West Hampstead by.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
Yes. i find that if I sit on my arse and do nothing, good stuff magically appears on my lap. It's surprising how often that happens....
I don't think the last 30 hours or so can be described as Boris sitting on his arse doing nothing.
He's been quite bombastic and active with effectively a new government in place already.
Mandy Rice Davies applies to what the EU is saying today, but how they think and what they say in the next six weeks can vary.
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Not Thatcherites. Opponents of democracy.
Your stuck record is rather boring Mr Meeks
I’m sorry you’re bored that Conservatives are flirting with suspending democracy. It seems quite important to me.
It is very important indeed. I share your concerns and am glad you are making them. I think there is a perceptible threat to our democracy in a way which I never expected to see. And that is what this thread header and my last one were about.
Anyway, I need to water my garden. The threatened storm has passed West Hampstead by.
I thought Boris was quite funny today and I enjoyed his attack on Corbyn.
But that’s the *easy* bit. Corbyn is so utterly toxic and inept that the script just writes itself, and no one ever argued Johnson could not do a decent comedy routine.
At the end of this hot day, he still has a proroguer as his FS, a hanger and flogger as his HS and such luminaries as Williamson and Shapps around the table.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
Prediction. Boris and co will go round Europe but get nowhere with negotiations, partly because there is no one on the EU side with authority, and partly Nothing Has Changed. That takes to September where Parliament attempts to block No Deal. If they are successful, Boris calls a No Deal election to crush the saboteurs. If unsuccessful No Deal goes ahead on the Day of the Dead.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
We will see, but I think he has no such intention. A quick election and five more years with a workable majority is all he is interested in. In that (I hope unlikely) event, he is perfectly capable of deciding no deal is more convenient for him politically. Though I guess he doesn’t care much one way or the other.
No. I do not want a hard left Labour leader. I would like there to be a strong effective Labour leader. The hard left are not effective because they are more interested in fighting amongst themselves and ideological purity.
I used to vote Labour. I turned to the Lib Dems because I could not stomach Blair's authoritarian approach to civil liberties.
We all lose out when there is no effective opposition. We need one now more than ever.
If this government did fall I would cheer and would vote Lib Dem. Indeed I hope they replace Labour if Labour stay in the grip of Corbyn and his pals.
In the meanwhile a government which badly needs being held to account will likely get away with stuff because Labour are AWOL.
That wasn't my question.
Which was - given we DO have a hard left Labour leader would you rather he was (a) highly effective and on track to be PM or (b) piss poor and thus highly unlikely to ever get into power?
It's (b) - of course it is. That is clear.
Therefore your beautifully written piece is insincere.
Slam dunk?
No. He is useless because he is hard left. If Labour want to be an effective opposition they need to get rid of him.
That is what I want and Labour are doing everyone a disservice by keeping a failing leader and depriving all of us, whether Labour or not, of an effective opposition.
If the government falls there is an election. It is not a given that Labour would win.
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Funny I've been a supporter and member of the Tories almost all my political life precisely because I am a Thatcherite and Libertarian. Why should that be horrific hard right?
Because you want to suspend democracy to achieve your ends.
I don't. I want an autumn election, that's not suspending democracy.
You are happy to prorogue Parliament to force through a no deal Brexit that wasn’t voted for.
It's not my preferred choice but Parliament has voted four times for a no deal Brexit.
Another random thought - imagine the LDs get up to high twenties and becoming the leading party of opposition and likely kingmakers - what is to stop entryists, perhaps radical greens after a LD Green electoral pact, to take over yet another sensible party and turn it into a cult?
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
For longterm Tories like yourself it may well be the choice - but left of centre voters are unlikely to show much faith in the 'Tories' Little Helpers'.
I would vote Lib Dem before I would vote for either of the other two. You can thank the current shambles for that.
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Funny I've been a supporter and member of the Tories almost all my political life precisely because I am a Thatcherite and Libertarian. Why should that be horrific hard right?
Because you want to suspend democracy to achieve your ends.
I don't. I want an autumn election, that's not suspending democracy.
You are happy to prorogue Parliament to force through a no deal Brexit that wasn’t voted for.
You're happy to ignore something that was voted for. Glass houses and all that. Suspending parliament is a step up, but forcing through a no-deal Brexit can't be criticised if you yourself are prepared to ignore such things.
We have a party called the Liberal Democrats that have made no accommodation at all to the expressed democratic wish for even a second. How can they describe themselves as democrats?
Somewhere along the way we may have to stomach something that has a degree of outrage about it. That degree though should be as small as possible, and definitely shouldn't include suspending parliament.
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Not Thatcherites. Opponents of democracy.
Your stuck record is rather boring Mr Meeks
I’m sorry you’re bored that Conservatives are flirting with suspending democracy. It seems quite important to me.
It is very important indeed. I share your concerns and am glad you are making them. I think there is a perceptible threat to our democracy in a way which I never expected to see. And that is what this thread header and my last one were about.
Anyway, I need to water my garden. The threatened storm has passed West Hampstead by.
No. I do not want a hard left Labour leader. I would like there to be a strong effective Labour leader. The hard left are not effective because they are more interested in fighting amongst themselves and ideological purity.
I used to vote Labour. I turned to the Lib Dems because I could not stomach Blair's authoritarian approach to civil liberties.
We all lose out when there is no effective opposition. We need one now more than ever.
If this government did fall I would cheer and would vote Lib Dem. Indeed I hope they replace Labour if Labour stay in the grip of Corbyn and his pals.
In the meanwhile a government which badly needs being held to account will likely get away with stuff because Labour are AWOL.
That wasn't my question.
Which was - given we DO have a hard left Labour leader would you rather he was (a) highly effective and on track to be PM or (b) piss poor and thus highly unlikely to ever get into power?
It's (b) - of course it is. That is clear.
Therefore your beautifully written piece is insincere.
Slam dunk?
If we’re wishing Corbyn were something he isn’t, then we might reasonably also desire that he not be of the fringier left.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
Prediction. Boris and co will go round Europe but get nowhere with negotiations, partly because there is no one on the EU side with authority, and partly Nothing Has Changed. That takes to September where Parliament attempts to block No Deal. If they are successful, Boris calls a No Deal election to crush the saboteurs. If unsuccessful No Deal goes ahead on the Day of the Dead.
Although it's a children's film by Disney, Coco is a really sweet and quite educational film that shows Mexican traditions in a really nice way. A great film to watch with kids or grandkids.
Looks like Steve Baker was honestly expecting a cabinet post. When he was offered a junior position he turned it down.
I don't think that is the reason. Even though I disagree with him 120%, Steve Baker, for a politician, is quite unique. He believes in what he says. He is not prepared to chain himself with collective responsibility as a payroll voter. He will be prepared to vote against any deal BJ brings back if he does not like it.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
Yes. i find that if I sit on my arse and do nothing, good stuff magically appears on my lap. It's surprising how often that happens....
I don't think the last 30 hours or so can be described as Boris sitting on his arse doing nothing.
He's been quite bombastic and active with effectively a new government in place already.
Mandy Rice Davies applies to what the EU is saying today, but how they think and what they say in the next six weeks can vary.
We clearly have different opinions on this. I think there will be no changes to the WA (PD is possible, but unlikely).
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Not Thatcherites. Opponents of democracy.
Your stuck record is rather boring Mr Meeks
I’m sorry you’re bored that Conservatives are flirting with suspending democracy. It seems quite important to me.
It is very important indeed. I share your concerns and am glad you are making them. I think there is a perceptible threat to our democracy in a way which I never expected to see. And that is what this thread header and my last one were about.
Anyway, I need to water my garden. The threatened storm has passed West Hampstead by.
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
For longterm Tories like yourself it may well be the choice - but left of centre voters are unlikely to show much faith in the 'Tories' Little Helpers'.
I would vote Lib Dem before I would vote for either of the other two. You can thank the current shambles for that.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
That six weeks stand down is an anachronism, and needs sorting out. No reason why they can't work the same system as everyone else.
Nah. They should work less not more. The trouble is that if you provide them with time to make new laws they will always fill it up, even if we don't need any new laws. We need less political interference in our lives not more.
I sort of agree, but at 70 odd grand plus expenses, I want a bit more graft out of them. I've got a shed that wants painting, maybe Nicky Morgan could lend a hand now the sun is out?
To be fair on Nicky, she wont be on holiday as ministers will have work to do in the next 6 weeks.
Best wishes to Mrs TFS, Glenfield Breast Unit are a well run dept. I would trust them with Mrs Foxy.
Cheers, mate. They have been excellent... but now referred to an oncologist at LRI.... so it's all a bit scary now.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
Prediction. Boris and co will go round Europe but get nowhere with negotiations, partly because there is no one on the EU side with authority, and partly Nothing Has Changed. That takes to September where Parliament attempts to block No Deal. If they are successful, Boris calls a No Deal election to crush the saboteurs. If unsuccessful No Deal goes ahead on the Day of the Dead.
Although it's a children's film by Disney, Coco is a really sweet and quite educational film that shows Mexican traditions in a really nice way. A great film to watch with kids or grandkids.
Knowing my grandchildren I would be surprised if they have not watched it
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
No (or not much) offence, but if it ends up a no deal and Boris and his merry men manage to frame it as all the fault of the EU, I'm not convinced that you wouldn't be finding reasons to support him.
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Not Thatcherites. Opponents of democracy.
Your stuck record is rather boring Mr Meeks
I’m sorry you’re bored that Conservatives are flirting with suspending democracy. It seems quite important to me.
It is very important indeed. I share your concerns and am glad you are making them. I think there is a perceptible threat to our democracy in a way which I never expected to see. And that is what this thread header and my last one were about.
Anyway, I need to water my garden. The threatened storm has passed West Hampstead by.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
Lovely piece of writing. Although Blair was total toss at PMQs.
Swinson's VoNC was a nice piece of politics. Forced Labour to back it, in which case the Lib Dems look like the real opposition, or oppose, in which case they can be accused of propping up the Tories and enabling a No Deal Brexit. The latter was an obvious choice, but either way it's more than Vince managed in months.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
No (or not much) offence, but if it ends up a no deal and Boris and his merry men manage to frame it as all the fault of the EU, I'm not convinced that you wouldn't be finding reasons to support him.
If the EU do not negotiate I think public opinion is going to demand no deal
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
No (or not much) offence, but if it ends up a no deal and Boris and his merry men manage to frame it as all the fault of the EU, I'm not convinced that you wouldn't be finding reasons to support him.
If the EU do not negotiate I think public opinion is going to demand no deal
I do not want no deal or support it
Yes but it’s like saying I’ll demand the impossible and if you don’t give it to me then it’s your fault .
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
That six weeks stand down is an anachronism, and needs sorting out. No reason why they can't work the same system as everyone else.
Nah. They should work less not more. The trouble is that if you provide them with time to make new laws they will always fill it up, even if we don't need any new laws. We need less political interference in our lives not more.
I sort of agree, but at 70 odd grand plus expenses, I want a bit more graft out of them. I've got a shed that wants painting, maybe Nicky Morgan could lend a hand now the sun is out?
To be fair on Nicky, she wont be on holiday as ministers will have work to do in the next 6 weeks.
Best wishes to Mrs TFS, Glenfield Breast Unit are a well run dept. I would trust them with Mrs Foxy.
Cheers, mate. They have been excellent... but now referred to an oncologist at LRI.... so it's all a bit scary now.
If you fancy a beer sometime, let me know. The Sir Robert Peel is the best pub near the LRI.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
No (or not much) offence, but if it ends up a no deal and Boris and his merry men manage to frame it as all the fault of the EU, I'm not convinced that you wouldn't be finding reasons to support him.
If the EU do not negotiate I think public opinion is going to demand no deal
I do not want no deal or support it
Yes but it’s like saying I’ll demand the impossible and if you don’t give it to me then it’s your fault .
It’s not impossible. They just don’t want to do it.
On topic, this is bit overwrought. If you've got a situation where MPs may jump but haven't yet, it makes sense to wait until they do before having the no-confidence vote. Normally they get brought routinely in the expectation that they'll be lost, but a situatiion where a motion brought at the right time might actually be won has a different dynamic.
There's also some logic to Swinson's motion: It's not a proper no-confidence motion, so if there are some wavering Tories, they may find it easier to vote for the Swinson no-confidence lite than a proper Corbyn No Confidence motion, but the former is potentially a gateway drug to the latter.
Jeremy Corbyn isn't very good, but this is fine. Holding off gave Swinson an opening to score a point but the election isn't going to be fought over parliamentary motion timing.
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
For longterm Tories like yourself it may well be the choice - but left of centre voters are unlikely to show much faith in the 'Tories' Little Helpers'.
I would vote Lib Dem before I would vote for either of the other two. You can thank the current shambles for that.
Welcome back! A(nother) same woman!!
Same?
I only popped back to enjoy the Borishambles. In the interim I have gone all gaelic just to confuse the Little Englanders.
No thunderstorms in Ireland today. Stunning weather and a bit windy
If we’re wishing Corbyn were something he isn’t, then we might reasonably also desire that he not be of the fringier left.
Of course. But I think much of the talk that he is a rubbish politician is driven by visceral dislike of his politics rather than a genuine assessment of his personal merits.
For example under the complaints about how 'weak and pathetic' he is there lurks in many a fear of their house being taxed. Say.
And therefore the true feeling about his perceived inadequacy is more relief than anger.
If he is crap it's people like me who should be upset. Which if he loses an election in October to Boris Johnson I will be. I'll be as livid as Gerald the Gorilla in that case.
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Not Thatcherites. Opponents of democracy.
Your stuck record is rather boring Mr Meeks
I’m sorry you’re bored that Conservatives are flirting with suspending democracy. It seems quite important to me.
It is very important indeed. I share your concerns and am glad you are making them. I think there is a perceptible threat to our democracy in a way which I never expected to see. And that is what this thread header and my last one were about.
Anyway, I need to water my garden. The threatened storm has passed West Hampstead by.
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Not Thatcherites. Opponents of democracy.
Your stuck record is rather boring Mr Meeks
I’m sorry you’re bored that Conservatives are flirting with suspending democracy. It seems quite important to me.
It is very important indeed. I share your concerns and am glad you are making them. I think there is a perceptible threat to our democracy in a way which I never expected to see. And that is what this thread header and my last one were about.
Anyway, I need to water my garden. The threatened storm has passed West Hampstead by.
We need a right wing dictatorship. Hopefully, Johnson will be our Franco.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
No (or not much) offence, but if it ends up a no deal and Boris and his merry men manage to frame it as all the fault of the EU, I'm not convinced that you wouldn't be finding reasons to support him.
If the EU do not negotiate I think public opinion is going to demand no deal
I do not want no deal or support it
Boris Johnson doesn't care whether there's a deal or not, and the consequences of each, if it gives him power. It looks like he's trying to engineer No Deal now and get a deal later because that suits his electoral purposes.
He's by far the most cynical prime minister of my lifetime and isn't a fit and proper person to be in post.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
If alternative solutions can remove the need for the backstop then what’s the problem . Put the solutions in and the backstop falls away .
Or of course one can surmise that there aren’t current solutions in which case the ERG and the rest are just lying .
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
If alternative solutions can remove the need for the backstop then what’s the problem . Put the solutions in and the backstop falls away .
Or of course one can surmise that there aren’t current solutions in which case the ERG and the rest are just lying .
The problem is sequencing. The EU won’t discuss alternatives until the withdrawal agreement is signed.
If we’re wishing Corbyn were something he isn’t, then we might reasonably also desire that he not be of the fringier left.
Of course. But I think much of the talk that he is a rubbish politician is driven by visceral dislike of his politics rather than a genuine assessment of his personal merits.
For example under the complaints about how 'weak and pathetic' he is there lurks in many a fear of their house being taxed. Say.
And therefore the true feeling about his perceived inadequacy is more relief than anger.
If he is crap it's people like me who should be upset. Which if he loses an election in October to Boris Johnson I will be. I'll be as livid as Gerald the Gorilla in that case.
The fear of corbynism economic policies is more to do with a fear of mcdonnell, who is a true believer in marxism and isnt a moron...and perfectly happy to confiscate "unearned" wealth.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
If alternative solutions can remove the need for the backstop then what’s the problem . Put the solutions in and the backstop falls away .
Or of course one can surmise that there aren’t current solutions in which case the ERG and the rest are just lying .
The backstop is just an Irish ploy to get one over the brits.
Very Spiteful.
But of course no-deal = hard border so, once again-
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
No (or not much) offence, but if it ends up a no deal and Boris and his merry men manage to frame it as all the fault of the EU, I'm not convinced that you wouldn't be finding reasons to support him.
If the EU do not negotiate I think public opinion is going to demand no deal
I do not want no deal or support it
Yes but it’s like saying I’ll demand the impossible and if you don’t give it to me then it’s your fault .
It’s not impossible. They just don’t want to do it.
The WA isn't impossible ('we' negotiated it after all), 'we' just don't want to do it.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
No (or not much) offence, but if it ends up a no deal and Boris and his merry men manage to frame it as all the fault of the EU, I'm not convinced that you wouldn't be finding reasons to support him.
If the EU do not negotiate I think public opinion is going to demand no deal
I do not want no deal or support it
Yes but it’s like saying I’ll demand the impossible and if you don’t give it to me then it’s your fault .
It’s not impossible. They just don’t want to do it.
The WA isn't impossible ('we' negotiated it after all), 'we' just don't want to do it.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
If alternative solutions can remove the need for the backstop then what’s the problem . Put the solutions in and the backstop falls away .
Or of course one can surmise that there aren’t current solutions in which case the ERG and the rest are just lying .
The problem is sequencing. The EU won’t discuss alternatives until the withdrawal agreement is signed.
Problem sorted , in the transition put the solutions in . Why do Tories fear something they’ve guaranteed can be sorted out .
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
No (or not much) offence, but if it ends up a no deal and Boris and his merry men manage to frame it as all the fault of the EU, I'm not convinced that you wouldn't be finding reasons to support him.
If the EU do not negotiate I think public opinion is going to demand no deal
I do not want no deal or support it
Yes but it’s like saying I’ll demand the impossible and if you don’t give it to me then it’s your fault .
It’s not impossible. They just don’t want to do it.
The WA isn't impossible ('we' negotiated it after all), 'we' just don't want to do it.
If we’re wishing Corbyn were something he isn’t, then we might reasonably also desire that he not be of the fringier left.
Of course. But I think much of the talk that he is a rubbish politician is driven by visceral dislike of his politics rather than a genuine assessment of his personal merits.
For example under the complaints about how 'weak and pathetic' he is there lurks in many a fear of their house being taxed. Say.
And therefore the true feeling about his perceived inadequacy is more relief than anger.
If he is crap it's people like me who should be upset. Which if he loses an election in October to Boris Johnson I will be. I'll be as livid as Gerald the Gorilla in that case.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
No (or not much) offence, but if it ends up a no deal and Boris and his merry men manage to frame it as all the fault of the EU, I'm not convinced that you wouldn't be finding reasons to support him.
If the EU do not negotiate I think public opinion is going to demand no deal
I do not want no deal or support it
Yes but it’s like saying I’ll demand the impossible and if you don’t give it to me then it’s your fault .
Nothing is impossible on this.
In 98 days time the EU will have to put in a border or alternative arrangements on a no deal as the UK will not put a border in place
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why would they reopen negotiations just because Boris is PM? He hasn't asked for anything different to what May asked for. Removing the backstop is as much of a unicorn now as it was in February.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
If alternative solutions can remove the need for the backstop then what’s the problem . Put the solutions in and the backstop falls away .
Or of course one can surmise that there aren’t current solutions in which case the ERG and the rest are just lying .
The problem is sequencing. The EU won’t discuss alternatives until the withdrawal agreement is signed.
Problem sorted , in the transition put the solutions in . Why do Tories fear something they’ve guaranteed can be sorted out .
“In the transition put the solutions in”?
If the alternatives could be discussed and arranged, there would be no need for a transition. The whole point of the transition is to negotiate the alternatives.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
If alternative solutions can remove the need for the backstop then what’s the problem . Put the solutions in and the backstop falls away .
Or of course one can surmise that there aren’t current solutions in which case the ERG and the rest are just lying .
The problem is sequencing. The EU won’t discuss alternatives until the withdrawal agreement is signed.
If the alternatives are viable then the Backstop is not an issue. If the alternative arrangements are Boris's bullshit, bluster and balderdash then not. Which is why Boris doesn't back the backstop (apart from the third vote of course).
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
If alternative solutions can remove the need for the backstop then what’s the problem . Put the solutions in and the backstop falls away .
Or of course one can surmise that there aren’t current solutions in which case the ERG and the rest are just lying .
The backstop is just an Irish ploy to get one over the brits.
Very Spiteful.
But of course no-deal = hard border so, once again-
C'est la vie
This is nonsense . The Irish just want to keep the border open and it’s nothing to do with some perverse need to screw the UK .
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
No (or not much) offence, but if it ends up a no deal and Boris and his merry men manage to frame it as all the fault of the EU, I'm not convinced that you wouldn't be finding reasons to support him.
If the EU do not negotiate I think public opinion is going to demand no deal
I do not want no deal or support it
Yes but it’s like saying I’ll demand the impossible and if you don’t give it to me then it’s your fault .
It’s not impossible. They just don’t want to do it.
The WA isn't impossible ('we' negotiated it after all), 'we' just don't want to do it.
Team May negotiated it.
The commons kept voting against it.
EU not negotiating with Team Boris
Halloween no-deal Brexit Nailed On.
Indeed - it's "Boris' "No Deal" which he will have to own. It will destroy the UK and the Conservative Party. The destruction of the Conservative Party is the only silver lining in this calamitous period for this country.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
If alternative solutions can remove the need for the backstop then what’s the problem . Put the solutions in and the backstop falls away .
Or of course one can surmise that there aren’t current solutions in which case the ERG and the rest are just lying .
The problem is sequencing. The EU won’t discuss alternatives until the withdrawal agreement is signed.
If the alternatives are viable then the Backstop is not an issue. If the alternative arrangements are Boris's bullshit, bluster and balderdash then not. Which is why Boris doesn't back the backstop (apart from the third vote of course).
Who knows? We can’t negotiate anything about the future relationship until after the WA. Insanity, I know.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why would they reopen negotiations just because Boris is PM? He hasn't asked for anything different to what May asked for. Removing the backstop is as much of a unicorn now as it was in February.
The backstop must be removed or we're going out no-deal - we're playing hardball now.
It's the Irish (southern) who'll suffer the most once the border goes up. And they'll only have themselves to blame.
On topic, this is bit overwrought. If you've got a situation where MPs may jump but haven't yet, it makes sense to wait until they do before having the no-confidence vote. Normally they get brought routinely in the expectation that they'll be lost, but a situatiion where a motion brought at the right time might actually be won has a different dynamic.
There's also some logic to Swinson's motion: It's not a proper no-confidence motion, so if there are some wavering Tories, they may find it easier to vote for the Swinson no-confidence lite than a proper Corbyn No Confidence motion, but the former is potentially a gateway drug to the latter.
Jeremy Corbyn isn't very good, but this is fine. Holding off gave Swinson an opening to score a point but the election isn't going to be fought over parliamentary motion timing.
I still do not see that Corbyn would have lost anything by tabling a VNOC. Had it failed, he could simply repeat the exercise in September or October. The only point that occurs to me to justify his indecision might be a preference for any resulting election to be held in the mid to October - November period rather than the first half of September. Maybe there is a view that any Boris bounce or honeymoon will have dissipated by mid to late Autumn.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
If alternative solutions can remove the need for the backstop then what’s the problem . Put the solutions in and the backstop falls away .
Or of course one can surmise that there aren’t current solutions in which case the ERG and the rest are just lying .
The backstop is just an Irish ploy to get one over the brits.
Very Spiteful.
But of course no-deal = hard border so, once again-
C'est la vie
This is nonsense . The Irish just want to keep the border open and it’s nothing to do with some perverse need to screw the UK .
Of course the Irish want the border open. Until recently they laid claim to the whole island. But we're Team Britain and we're leaving the EU.
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Funny I've been a supporter and member of the Tories almost all my political life precisely because I am a Thatcherite and Libertarian. Why should that be horrific hard right?
Because you want to suspend democracy to achieve your ends.
I don't. I want an autumn election, that's not suspending democracy.
You are happy to prorogue Parliament to force through a no deal Brexit that wasn’t voted for.
You're happy to ignore something that was voted for. Glass houses and all that. Suspending parliament is a step up, but forcing through a no-deal Brexit can't be criticised if you yourself are prepared to ignore such things.
We have a party called the Liberal Democrats that have made no accommodation at all to the expressed democratic wish for even a second. How can they describe themselves as democrats?
Somewhere along the way we may have to stomach something that has a degree of outrage about it. That degree though should be as small as possible, and definitely shouldn't include suspending parliament.
Well that’s not true. I would have voted for the withdrawal agreement. If there were a fresh referendum on it, I’d still vote for it. If there were a revoke/ no deal referendum I’d abstain.
Suspending Parliament to secure a policy objective is the act of an anti-democrat. You have to decide whether you are going to defend democracy or subvert it. Sadly, too many Leavers are going to decide to subvert it.
No. He is useless because he is hard left. If Labour want to be an effective opposition they need to get rid of him.
That is what I want and Labour are doing everyone a disservice by keeping a failing leader and depriving all of us, whether Labour or not, of an effective opposition.
If the government falls there is an election. It is not a given that Labour would win.
Exactly my point. Your problem with him is his (in your view) foolish and dangerous political views. But your article says the problem is that he is incompetent.
Let me pose it this way then -
Which would you prefer - a highly effective hard left LOTO or a bumbling ineffectual moderate?
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why would they reopen negotiations just because Boris is PM? He hasn't asked for anything different to what May asked for. Removing the backstop is as much of a unicorn now as it was in February.
The backstop must be removed or we're going out no-deal - we're playing hardball now.
It's the Irish (southern) who'll suffer the most once the border goes up. And they'll only have themselves to blame.
No. They will have us to blame. And rightfully so.
There are lots of people who are saying that even to make a bare bones no deal Brexit even remotely viable the Government will have to pass several key pieces of legislation. Is this true, because how can the Government with any seriousness argue that they are “planning” for no deal, if they are also refusing to bring any legislation before the House? And what are the consequences if they don’t?
Might they be actually planning to use the Blair era Emergency Powers Act?
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why would they reopen negotiations just because Boris is PM? He hasn't asked for anything different to what May asked for. Removing the backstop is as much of a unicorn now as it was in February.
The backstop must be removed or we're going out no-deal - we're playing hardball now.
It's the Irish (southern) who'll suffer the most once the border goes up. And they'll only have themselves to blame.
Good luck getting your US trade deal . Congress will block anything that trashes the Good Friday agreement .
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why would they reopen negotiations just because Boris is PM? He hasn't asked for anything different to what May asked for. Removing the backstop is as much of a unicorn now as it was in February.
The backstop must be removed or we're going out no-deal - we're playing hardball now.
It's the Irish (southern) who'll suffer the most once the border goes up. And they'll only have themselves to blame.
Nah, they will blame the English of course.
I wouldn't expect much in the post Brexit minideals until the Irish are content with the arrangements.
@Philip_Thompson doesn't seem interested in my no change to the WA wager. Shame, it could be an interesting one.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why would they reopen negotiations just because Boris is PM? He hasn't asked for anything different to what May asked for. Removing the backstop is as much of a unicorn now as it was in February.
The backstop must be removed or we're going out no-deal - we're playing hardball now.
It's the Irish (southern) who'll suffer the most once the border goes up. And they'll only have themselves to blame.
Good luck getting your US trade deal . Congress will block anything that trashes the Good Friday agreement .
Remind us what section in the GFA customs checks are excluded.
There are lots of people who are saying that even to make a bare bones no deal Brexit even remotely viable the Government will have to pass several key pieces of legislation. Is this true, because how can the Government with any seriousness argue that they are “planning” for no deal, if they are also refusing to bring any legislation before the House? And what are the consequences if they don’t?
Might they be actually planning to use the Blair era Emergency Powers Act?
There are several bills outstanding on trade , immigration etc .
These need to be passed , I think the institute for government has more on them .
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why is it that their red lines are petty, and ours not ?
One might wish that both were more flexible, perhaps.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why would they reopen negotiations just because Boris is PM? He hasn't asked for anything different to what May asked for. Removing the backstop is as much of a unicorn now as it was in February.
The backstop must be removed or we're going out no-deal - we're playing hardball now.
It's the Irish (southern) who'll suffer the most once the border goes up. And they'll only have themselves to blame.
Good luck getting your US trade deal . Congress will block anything that trashes the Good Friday agreement .
Remind us what section in the GFA customs checks are excluded.
It doesn’t really matter. Congress won’t care about the detail, if leading Irish politicians are against it.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why would they reopen negotiations just because Boris is PM? He hasn't asked for anything different to what May asked for. Removing the backstop is as much of a unicorn now as it was in February.
The backstop must be removed or we're going out no-deal - we're playing hardball now.
It's the Irish (southern) who'll suffer the most once the border goes up. And they'll only have themselves to blame.
Good luck getting your US trade deal . Congress will block anything that trashes the Good Friday agreement .
Remind us what section in the GFA customs checks are excluded.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why would they reopen negotiations just because Boris is PM? He hasn't asked for anything different to what May asked for. Removing the backstop is as much of a unicorn now as it was in February.
The backstop must be removed or we're going out no-deal - we're playing hardball now.
It's the Irish (southern) who'll suffer the most once the border goes up. And they'll only have themselves to blame.
I'd trust the EU to support the RoI more than I'd trust Boris to support NI. A no deal will screw NI over more than the RoI and lead to a united Ireland fairly quickly. Not to mention that the EU seem much more competent at organising piss ups in breweries than the Conservatives.
Boris can claim to be playing hardball all he wants. To actually act on anything he needs to win an election, given the lack of majority for anything at the moment, which involves having his lies examined in public.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why would they reopen negotiations just because Boris is PM? He hasn't asked for anything different to what May asked for. Removing the backstop is as much of a unicorn now as it was in February.
The backstop must be removed or we're going out no-deal - we're playing hardball now.
It's the Irish (southern) who'll suffer the most once the border goes up. And they'll only have themselves to blame.
Good luck getting your US trade deal . Congress will block anything that trashes the Good Friday agreement .
Remind us what section in the GFA customs checks are excluded.
How is that relevant? What matters is perception.
Well, how about we fight misinformation, rather than revelling in it.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why is it that their red lines are petty, and ours not ?
One might wish that both were more flexible, perhaps.
We're only leaving a trade organisation - it shouldn't be that difficult - It is rather eye-opening to see the amount of self hating brits there are though (judging by this website)
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why would they reopen negotiations just because Boris is PM? He hasn't asked for anything different to what May asked for. Removing the backstop is as much of a unicorn now as it was in February.
The backstop must be removed or we're going out no-deal - we're playing hardball now.
It's the Irish (southern) who'll suffer the most once the border goes up. And they'll only have themselves to blame.
Good luck getting your US trade deal . Congress will block anything that trashes the Good Friday agreement .
Remind us what section in the GFA customs checks are excluded.
Remind me on what planet the US Congress is unbiased regarding UK/Ireland relations?
If we’re wishing Corbyn were something he isn’t, then we might reasonably also desire that he not be of the fringier left.
Of course. But I think much of the talk that he is a rubbish politician is driven by visceral dislike of his politics rather than a genuine assessment of his personal merits.
For example under the complaints about how 'weak and pathetic' he is there lurks in many a fear of their house being taxed. Say.
And therefore the true feeling about his perceived inadequacy is more relief than anger.
If he is crap it's people like me who should be upset. Which if he loses an election in October to Boris Johnson I will be. I'll be as livid as Gerald the Gorilla in that case.
Nonsense. Corbyn is both a rubbish politician, and someone whose politics I viscerally dislike. McDonnell is just the latter, hence why I fear him, and by extension, a Corbyn government. Raab is (mostly) just the former, hence I depair at his having been appointed Foreign Secretary, although I view it as a missed opportunity rather than a danger to my quality of life.
The two qualities are perfectly separable for most people.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
No (or not much) offence, but if it ends up a no deal and Boris and his merry men manage to frame it as all the fault of the EU, I'm not convinced that you wouldn't be finding reasons to support him.
If the EU do not negotiate I think public opinion is going to demand no deal
I do not want no deal or support it
Yes but it’s like saying I’ll demand the impossible and if you don’t give it to me then it’s your fault .
It’s not impossible. They just don’t want to do it.
The WA isn't impossible ('we' negotiated it after all), 'we' just don't want to do it.
Team May negotiated it.
The commons kept voting against it.
EU not negotiating with Team Boris
Halloween no-deal Brexit Nailed On.
Punishment for Boris and Punishment for the Tories in that case!
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why would they reopen negotiations just because Boris is PM? He hasn't asked for anything different to what May asked for. Removing the backstop is as much of a unicorn now as it was in February.
The backstop must be removed or we're going out no-deal - we're playing hardball now.
It's the Irish (southern) who'll suffer the most once the border goes up. And they'll only have themselves to blame.
Good luck getting your US trade deal . Congress will block anything that trashes the Good Friday agreement .
Remind us what section in the GFA customs checks are excluded.
How is that relevant? What matters is perception.
Well, how about we fight misinformation, rather than revelling in it.
Because we should support the spirit of the GFA and the status quo that followed as it has done great things for Northern Ireland. Trashing that consensus for no gain is pointless.
Bozo has learnt nothing and his cabinet are deluded .
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
It's the EU that has decided that the UK will be leaving with no-deal with their refusal to re-open the withdrawal agreement.
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
Why is it that their red lines are petty, and ours not ?
One might wish that both were more flexible, perhaps.
We're only leaving a trade organisation - it shouldn't be that difficult - It is rather eye-opening to see the amount of self hating brits there are though (judging by this website)
There are lots of people who are saying that even to make a bare bones no deal Brexit even remotely viable the Government will have to pass several key pieces of legislation. Is this true, because how can the Government with any seriousness argue that they are “planning” for no deal, if they are also refusing to bring any legislation before the House? And what are the consequences if they don’t?
Might they be actually planning to use the Blair era Emergency Powers Act?
I don't know. As far as I can tell, the plan is:
a) fuck up b) blame the EU c) let somebody else clear up the mess d) loop back to a)
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
No (or not much) offence, but if it ends up a no deal and Boris and his merry men manage to frame it as all the fault of the EU, I'm not convinced that you wouldn't be finding reasons to support him.
If the EU do not negotiate I think public opinion is going to demand no deal
I do not want no deal or support it
Yes but it’s like saying I’ll demand the impossible and if you don’t give it to me then it’s your fault .
It’s not impossible. They just don’t want to do it.
The WA isn't impossible ('we' negotiated it after all), 'we' just don't want to do it.
Team May negotiated it.
The commons kept voting against it.
EU not negotiating with Team Boris
Halloween no-deal Brexit Nailed On.
Punishment for Boris and Punishment for the Tories in that case!
Taking one for the team like the patriots they often claim to be.
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
For longterm Tories like yourself it may well be the choice - but left of centre voters are unlikely to show much faith in the 'Tories' Little Helpers'.
I would vote Lib Dem before I would vote for either of the other two. You can thank the current shambles for that.
Welcome back! A(nother) same woman!!
Same?
I only popped back to enjoy the Borishambles. In the interim I have gone all gaelic just to confuse the Little Englanders.
No thunderstorms in Ireland today. Stunning weather and a bit windy
Sane. The perils of typing in the dark in the garden..........
Comments
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Dead
Which was - given we DO have a hard left Labour leader would you rather he was (a) highly effective and on track to be PM or (b) piss poor and thus highly unlikely to ever get into power?
It's (b) - of course it is. That is clear.
Therefore your beautifully written piece is insincere.
Slam dunk?
He will be judged on his record not one liners in the Commons . If he doesn’t deliver Brexit by October 31 st he’s in big trouble .
His only way of avoiding being held responsible is if MPs take it out of his hands , at which point we’ll get a Lectern speech where he’ll blame them , have an anti EU tirade and call an election .
With Cummings in no 10 Bozo might feel he can win , the election will descend into nationalism on steroids , with a version of the Trump playbook with some extra Latin thrown in for good measure .
Anyway, I need to water my garden. The threatened storm has passed West Hampstead by.
But that’s the *easy* bit. Corbyn is so utterly toxic and inept that the script just writes itself, and no one ever argued Johnson could not do a decent comedy routine.
At the end of this hot day, he still has a proroguer as his FS, a hanger and flogger as his HS and such luminaries as Williamson and Shapps around the table.
Let’s see what happens.
The mystery is sticking to the same strategy despite all the evidence that the beneficiaries of the Tories’ mess are the BXP and LibDems
In that (I hope unlikely) event, he is perfectly capable of deciding no deal is more convenient for him politically. Though I guess he doesn’t care much one way or the other.
That is what I want and Labour are doing everyone a disservice by keeping a failing leader and depriving all of us, whether Labour or not, of an effective opposition.
If the government falls there is an election. It is not a given that Labour would win.
We have a party called the Liberal Democrats that have made no accommodation at all to the expressed democratic wish for even a second. How can they describe themselves as democrats?
Somewhere along the way we may have to stomach something that has a degree of outrage about it. That degree though should be as small as possible, and definitely shouldn't include suspending parliament.
If I'm allowed to pass this on .....🤔
He will be prepared to vote against any deal BJ brings back if he does not like it.
We may have the makings of a wager. Any thoughts?
I will ask them
The EU will not reward the architect of Brexit with any sort of victory . Astonishingly these Tory Leavers expect a political project which is Brexit to be met with a non political version across the Channel .
They have always viewed the EU in purely economic terms, that it’s role should be just that . They’ve completely ignored the more emotional aspects of the project . Those in positions of power are totally emotionally wedded to the EU .
Hence Donald Tusks often very emotional press conferences , I will be sad to see him go , a truly wonderful man .
The EU don’t want no deal but the UK red lines mean they can’t offer much more than what’s been agreed .
The peace process in NI is very close to Barniers heart , he indeed helped deliver lots of funds there to aid that in his previous role .
The UK can decide to leave with no deal but it’s their choice , and their choice also to put peace there at risk .
The UK decided to leave , no one forced them to . And that’s really it . The EU priority is to protect its single market and CU , but more importantly to protect the project itself .
https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578
Swinson's VoNC was a nice piece of politics. Forced Labour to back it, in which case the Lib Dems look like the real opposition, or oppose, in which case they can be accused of propping up the Tories and enabling a No Deal Brexit. The latter was an obvious choice, but either way it's more than Vince managed in months.
I do not want no deal or support it
Very petty of them.
C'est la vie - once we're out we'll be rid of them.
There's also some logic to Swinson's motion: It's not a proper no-confidence motion, so if there are some wavering Tories, they may find it easier to vote for the Swinson no-confidence lite than a proper Corbyn No Confidence motion, but the former is potentially a gateway drug to the latter.
Jeremy Corbyn isn't very good, but this is fine. Holding off gave Swinson an opening to score a point but the election isn't going to be fought over parliamentary motion timing.
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1154494101959536640
I only popped back to enjoy the Borishambles. In the interim I have gone all gaelic just to confuse the Little Englanders.
No thunderstorms in Ireland today. Stunning weather and a bit windy
For example under the complaints about how 'weak and pathetic' he is there lurks in many a fear of their house being taxed. Say.
And therefore the true feeling about his perceived inadequacy is more relief than anger.
If he is crap it's people like me who should be upset. Which if he loses an election in October to Boris Johnson I will be. I'll be as livid as Gerald the Gorilla in that case.
He's by far the most cynical prime minister of my lifetime and isn't a fit and proper person to be in post.
Or of course one can surmise that there aren’t current solutions in which case the ERG and the rest are just lying .
Very Spiteful.
But of course no-deal = hard border so, once again-
C'est la vie
Some interesting byelections. BXP in Gloucester and the Gay Donkey splitters in Hartlepool.
Interesting to see the coalition in Hartlepool is Conservatives, Independents and Scargillites. Strange bedfellows indeed.
The commons kept voting against it.
EU not negotiating with Team Boris
Halloween no-deal Brexit Nailed On.
Prepare yourself, then.
In 98 days time the EU will have to put in a border or alternative arrangements on a no deal as the UK will not put a border in place
No wonder Varadker is beginning to panic
If the alternatives could be discussed and arranged, there would be no need for a transition. The whole point of the transition is to negotiate the alternatives.
It's the Irish (southern) who'll suffer the most once the border goes up. And they'll only have themselves to blame.
Suspending Parliament to secure a policy objective is the act of an anti-democrat. You have to decide whether you are going to defend democracy or subvert it. Sadly, too many Leavers are going to decide to subvert it.
Let me pose it this way then -
Which would you prefer - a highly effective hard left LOTO or a bumbling ineffectual moderate?
Gun to head.
Your arrogance is astonishing.
There are lots of people who are saying that even to make a bare bones no deal Brexit even remotely viable the Government will have to pass several key pieces of legislation. Is this true, because how can the Government with any seriousness argue that they are “planning” for no deal, if they are also refusing to bring any legislation before the House? And what are the consequences if they don’t?
Might they be actually planning to use the Blair era Emergency Powers Act?
I wouldn't expect much in the post Brexit minideals until the Irish are content with the arrangements.
@Philip_Thompson doesn't seem interested in my no change to the WA wager. Shame, it could be an interesting one.
These need to be passed , I think the institute for government has more on them .
One might wish that both were more flexible, perhaps.
Boris can claim to be playing hardball all he wants. To actually act on anything he needs to win an election, given the lack of majority for anything at the moment, which involves having his lies examined in public.
The two qualities are perfectly separable for most people.
a) fuck up
b) blame the EU
c) let somebody else clear up the mess
d) loop back to a)
See also @JBriskinindyref2 posts