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Methinks the Owen doth protest too muchrottenborough said:0 -
Didn't he/she get a twitter ban for errhhh you know anti-Jewish stuff....rottenborough said:0 -
Um *nothing* in that text makes reference to Labour members. It refers to Labour voters or Labour supportersrottenborough said:
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Growing up in Cinderford. He’s the 8th circle.Gallowgate said:What on earth did we do to deserve Owen Jones?
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1. When the narrow minded extreme entryists say many not the few they think the few are Jewish.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1149015560799301634
This is on the same par as the moon landings were fake!!!
2. You love Palestinian cause so much you have started to hate their opponents.
3. When unite endorsed member screws up and should be shown the door, unite endorsed official investigating goes easy on them.0 -
I'm not watching Love Island for this so it better be good.0
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When parts of Broadheath, the most exclusive suburb of Worcester was added to the constituency the game was up for the LDs. Roger Pincham nearly pipped PTM in 1974. Both were good guys.rural_voter said:
I was born in Leominster constituency and my impression from knowing people there is that they'd strongly prefer either Philip Dunne (Ludlow) or Jesse Norman (Hereford) as an MP. AFAIK neither of these MPs is the MD of a company based in a tax haven or has had a 'phantom mortgage'.matt said:H
Yet Leominster and North Herefordshire people vote for him. Perhaps the quality of the opposition is not all that it might be (the Leominster greens are flat earthers for example). The latter point emphasising that a Green/LD pact might look good sense if one lives in, say, London. Less so where the LDs, the Greens and their supporters are a million miles apart (see Herefordshire Council for more details).Mexicanpete said:
I'll raise you Bill Wiggin!matt said:
Temple-Morris was flawed in many ways but at least he wasn’t the LD Paul Keetch who was a weapons grade moron. Shepherd wasn’t much better. Jesse Norman’s IQ is the equivalent of 5 Herefordians combined, which may not be helpful.Mexicanpete said:
I used to be in the unfortunate position as a Labour voter to live in Leominster constituency which was a Liberal/Tory marginal and later a LD Tory marginal so I tactically voted Lib and LD. The great irony of course is the true gentleman, Peter Temple-Morris I was voting against eventually crossed the floor.SouthamObserver said:
I spent my adult life wanting to live in a Labour/Tory marginal. Now I do I wish I didn't! But I am voting LibDem whatever now. I cannot support Corbyn Labour. It is a racist party. I am sure Johnson's Tory party is too. Given that, I have to actively vote against both.IanB2 said:
That depends on where you live. There are plenty of Labour held seats that the Tories will never win. And plenty of Tory and SNP seats that Labour will never win.SouthamObserver said:[deleted]
The Liberals almost won Leominster in the October 1974 GE but I don't think it's been a marginal for ~40 years. It's now what I'd call a 21st.C rotten borough, like Paterson's seat of N. Shropshire and I don't think it's a plausible L.Dem seat barring a huge realignment.
Temple-Morris was a good MP, i.e. good on the Tory scale. In terms of the earlier discussion today he was a classic One-Nation Tory and had no time for the Thatcherites. (I think the sentiment was fully reciprocated.)0 -
Owen clearly hasn't asked Aaron if he got the Paul waugh sourced memo..... As Aarons nailed it....rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1149015560799301634
This is on the same par as the moon landings were fake!!!0 -
I am going to guess you will probably end up regretting missing Love Island....Gallowgate said:I'm not watching Love Island for this so it better be good.
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We are going down the German route with PhDs. That is not a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:
Go read how he got it...he basically wrote a thesis about how he (I mean others he was researching) went about direct action campaigns.ydoethur said:
It says quite a lot about the lack of academic rigour at RHUL that this guy has a PhD from them, even in sociology.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1149015560799301634
This is on the same par as the moon landings were fake!!!1 -
An election can be called as late as September 1st and still be held before October 31st.eek said:FPT and I know it's off topic for the clusterfuck that is going to be Panaroma and it's aftereffects
Unless an election is called on July 25th Boris will need an extension and Nigel will completely destroy him because of that..HYUFD said:
Given only Boris has a chance of delivering a majority for Brexit, not Farage, it is actually the other way around.eek said:I was bored for 5 minutes so this is for HYUFD - good luck in Boris's General Election campaign
Given this image which party do you vote for the Tories or Brexit...
It was Boris and Vote Leave and Cummings who got the Leave vote over 50% ,not Farage and Leave.EU and as long as the polls show a Boris led Tory Party ahead of the Brexit Party most Leavers will vote for the former
I'll add the second photo
Good luck in the election - a Boris lead Tories is going to need it
Plus as Boris has made clear he will take us out on October 31st Deal or No Deal and that assumes Macron would not veto further extension anyway, which as he has suggested he is likely to do0 -
Oi! Speak for yourself.matt said:
We are going down the German route with PhDs. That is not a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:
Go read how he got it...he basically wrote a thesis about how he (I mean others he was researching) went about direct action campaigns.ydoethur said:
It says quite a lot about the lack of academic rigour at RHUL that this guy has a PhD from them, even in sociology.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1149015560799301634
This is on the same par as the moon landings were fake!!!0 -
Didn't one of our new German EU overlords get caught having plagiarised theirs?matt said:
We are going down the German route with PhDs. That is not a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:
Go read how he got it...he basically wrote a thesis about how he (I mean others he was researching) went about direct action campaigns.ydoethur said:
It says quite a lot about the lack of academic rigour at RHUL that this guy has a PhD from them, even in sociology.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1149015560799301634
This is on the same par as the moon landings were fake!!!0 -
Full hour on Panorama on BBC1 now in primetime on " Is Labour anti-Semitic?'0
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Panorama was much better show in general when it was always an hour programme. 30 mins is too short a time to show really cover a topic in detail.HYUFD said:Full hour on Panorama on BBC1 now in primetime on " Is Labour anti-Semitic?'
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And no safe seats. And the ability for individuals to diverge from manifestos. And no wasted votes.logical_song said:
With STV you can have geography-based constituencies and pretty good proportionality.
And democracy.1 -
There will probably be about the same number of dicks on display.Gallowgate said:I'm not watching Love Island for this so it better be good.
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Yet the LibDems remain the only alternative to the Tories along the welsh borders, and in the Euro elections the LibDems outpolled the Tories across Herefordshire by 2:1. If there is a Remain Alliance, seats such as those are winnable.Mexicanpete said:
When parts of Broadheath, the most exclusive suburb of Worcester was added to the constituency the game was up for the LDs. Roger Pincham nearly pipped PTM in 1974. Both were good guys.rural_voter said:
I was born in Leominster constituency and my impression from knowing people there is that they'd strongly prefer either Philip Dunne (Ludlow) or Jesse Norman (Hereford) as an MP. AFAIK neither of these MPs is the MD of a company based in a tax haven or has had a 'phantom mortgage'.matt said:H
Yet Leominster and North Herefordshire people vote for him. Perhaps the quality of the opposition is not all that it might be (the Leominster greens are flat earthers for example). The latter point emphasising that a Green/LD pact might look good sense if one lives in, say, London. Less so where the LDs, the Greens and their supporters are a million miles apart (see Herefordshire Council for more details).Mexicanpete said:
I'll raise you Bill Wiggin!matt said:
Temple-Morris was flawed in many ways but at least he wasn’t the LD Paul Keetch who was a weapons grade moron. Shepherd wasn’t much better. Jesse Norman’s IQ is the equivalent of 5 Herefordians combined, which may not be helpful.Mexicanpete said:
I used to be in the unfortunate position as a Labour voter to live in Leominster constituency which was a Liberal/Tory marginal and later a LD Tory marginal so I tactically voted Lib and LD. The great irony of course is the true gentleman, Peter Temple-Morris I was voting against eventually crossed the floor.SouthamObserver said:
I spent my adult life wanting to live in a Labour/Tory marginal. Now I do I wish I didn't! But I am voting LibDem whatever now. I cannot support Corbyn Labour. It is a racist party. I am sure Johnson's Tory party is too. Given that, I have to actively .IanB2 said:
The Liberals almost won Leominster in the October 1974 GE but I don't think it's been a marginal for ~40 years. It's now what I'd call a 21st.C rotten borough, like Paterson's seat of N. Shropshire and I don't think it's a plausible L.Dem seat barring a huge realignment.
Temple-Morris was a good MP, i.e. good on the Tory scale. In terms of the earlier discussion today he was a classic One-Nation Tory and had no time for the Thatcherites. (I think the sentiment was fully reciprocated.)0 -
Average IQ of those under the spotlight might be higher on Love Island...ydoethur said:
There will probably be about the same number of dicks on display.Gallowgate said:I'm not watching Love Island for this so it better be good.
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100%+ this.Mango said:
And no safe seats. And the ability for individuals to diverge from manifestos. And no wasted votes.logical_song said:
With STV you can have geography-based constituencies and pretty good proportionality.
And democracy.
Although the North East would still be a safe Labour STV seat!0 -
But some include so many 'what if?' questions related to Brexit and/or leadership personalities that they come closer to being 'push polls'.MikeSmithson said:
All voting intention polls are hypothetical based on the the presumption that there's a general election tomorrowjustin124 said:
But that was a hypothetical poll - not the normal voting intention result!IanB2 said:
Most LibDem seats will be won from the Tories, and the tipping point for them starts to kick in as soon as the LibDems draw equal to the Tories in terms of vote share. Today’s 23%-23% draw in the YouGov is encouraging.stodge said:
Maximising the LD vote is all that matters. With 40% of the vote we can get rid of Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn and Nigel Farage in a single night and get this country back on track.IanB2 said:That depends on where you live. There are plenty of Labour held seats that the Tories will never win. And plenty of Tory and SNP seats that Labour will never win.
That should be the aim whether it's Jo or Ed.0 -
You’ll find that DPhils remain as good as ever....ydoethur said:
Oi! Speak for yourself.matt said:
We are going down the German route with PhDs. That is not a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:
Go read how he got it...he basically wrote a thesis about how he (I mean others he was researching) went about direct action campaigns.ydoethur said:
It says quite a lot about the lack of academic rigour at RHUL that this guy has a PhD from them, even in sociology.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1149015560799301634
This is on the same par as the moon landings were fake!!!0 -
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Andrew Gwyne doing the whopper point with his thumb. Total whopper.0
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I think it’s more fundamental than that. There is a space in modern politics for a left wing, socially conservative, party tied to the labour movement. There is a space for a social democratic, socially liberal party. But with the widening cultural faultline, it is increasingly difficult for a single party to gather in both constituencies.Mexicanpete said:
Ambiguity is one of the factors killing the Labour Part along with the other 999 cuts inflicted by Corbyn.eek said:
I suspect (heck we know) Labour can't and won't win a majority - the loss of Scotland to the SNP makes that impossible - hence the second referendum will be traded into revoke or referendum where everyone focuses on Remain and the leave option is actually defined.Mexicanpete said:
I spent decades in the Labour Party fending off the likes of Dave Nellist, Degsy and Corbyn. They have won- for the moment- but possibly forever. I don't want to vote for them now! If the LDs could pick up enough seats along with PC, SNP and Greens to defeat Boris and you don't need Labour I would be happy to vote for them, but I can't see that outcome for a generation. Which is why Labour even with a moron like Corbyn in charge need to be part of the Remainer picture, otherwise it is Boris and his brand of half-wittery that takes us out of the EU on his terms.eek said:
Labour ..Mexicanpete said:
Labour need to be on board too, with or without Corbyn- hopefully without, otherwise its Boris and Nige on a home-run.eek said:
40% is impossible (unless there is a Lib Dem / Green pact and even then I reckon it's nearer 30-33%).justin124 said:
At the moment polls have them on 15%/16% and beginning to fall back.stodge said:
Maximising the LD vote is all that matters. With 40% of the vote we can get rid of Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn and Nigel Farage in a single night and get this country back on track.IanB2 said:That depends on where you live. There are plenty of Labour held seats that the Tories will never win. And plenty of Tory and SNP seats that Labour will never win.
That should be the aim whether it's Jo or Ed.
What you can't however do is ignore the Labour remain seats - if they go to Brexit or the Tories leave could well have a majority. Labour need ambiguity to maximise what they can win and the remain parties need that to cross the 325 seat threshold.
Labour need to firmly come down on the side of a second vote, they really need to be part of the anti- Boris/Farage alliance, otherwise Boris/Farage win.0 -
The Tories and Brexit Party together got more votes than Labour, the LDs, the Greens and CUK combined in Herefordshire in the European Parliament electionsIanB2 said:
Yet the LibDems remain the only alternative to the Tories along the welsh borders, and in the Euro elections the LibDems outpolled the Tories across Herefordshire by 2:1. If there is a Remain Alliance, seats such as those are winnable.Mexicanpete said:
When parts of Broadheath, the most exclusive suburb of Worcester was added to the constituency the game was up for the LDs. Roger Pincham nearly pipped PTM in 1974. Both were good guys.rural_voter said:
I was born in Leominster constituency and my impression from knowing people there is that they'd strongly prefer either Philip Dunne (Ludlow) or Jesse Norman (Hereford) as an MP. AFAIK neither of these MPs is the MD of a company based in a tax haven or has had a 'phantom mortgage'.matt said:H
Yet Leominster and North Herefordshire people vote for him. Perhaps the quality ails).Mexicanpete said:
I'll raise you Bill Wiggin!matt said:
Temple-Morris was flawed in many ways but at least he wasn’t the LD Paul Keetch who was a weapons grade moron. Shepherd wasn’t much better. Jesse Norman’s IQ is the equivalent of 5 Herefordians combined, which may not be helpful.Mexicanpete said:
I used to be in the unfortunate position as a Labour voter to live in Leominster constituency which was a Liberal/Tory marginal and later a LD Tory marginal so I tactically voted Lib and LD. The great irony of course is the true gentleman, Peter Temple-Morris I was voting against eventually crossed the floor.SouthamObserver said:
I spent my adult life wanting to live in a Labour/Tory marginal. Now I do I wish I didn't! But I am voting LibDem whatever now. I cannot support Corbyn Labour. It is a racist party. I am sure Johnson's Tory party is too. Given that, I have to actively .IanB2 said:
The Liberals almost won Leominster in the October 1974 GE but I don't think it's been a marginal for ~40 years. It's now what I'd call a 21st.C rotten borough, like Paterson's seat of N. Shropshire and I don't think it's a plausible L.Dem seat barring a huge realignment.
Temple-Morris was a good MP, i.e. good on the Tory scale. In terms of the earlier discussion today he was a classic One-Nation Tory and had no time for the Thatcherites. (I think the sentiment was fully reciprocated.)
https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/news/article/810/european_parliamentary_election_20190 -
Can it? Did you read the article I posted last week regarding timing or my various timeline posts of the past few weeks working backwards - that show it's impossible due to Parliamentary startup times...HYUFD said:
An election can be called as late as September 1st and still be held before October 31st.eek said:FPT and I know it's off topic for the clusterfuck that is going to be Panaroma and it's aftereffects
Unless an election is called on July 25th Boris will need an extension and Nigel will completely destroy him because of that..HYUFD said:
Given only Boris has a chance of delivering a majority for Brexit, not Farage, it is actually the other way around.eek said:I was bored for 5 minutes so this is for HYUFD - good luck in Boris's General Election campaign
Given this image which party do you vote for the Tories or Brexit...
It was Boris and Vote Leave and Cummings who got the Leave vote over 50% ,not Farage and Leave.EU and as long as the polls show a Boris led Tory Party ahead of the Brexit Party most Leavers will vote for the former
I'll add the second photo
Good luck in the election - a Boris lead Tories is going to need it
Plus as Boris has made clear he will take us out on October 31st Deal or No Deal and that assumes Macron would not veto further extension anyway, which as he has suggested he is likely to do
Unless Boris calls an election on July 25th he is screwed....
And if he thinks he's going to win an election he is in for a mighty surprise....0 -
I wouldn’t worry too much. We Leavers are all aged or degenerate anywayStreeter said:
If Parliament is prorogued the people will hit the @Streeter . We don’t hold with coups in this country.GIN1138 said:
Do you think you might just be going a tiny bit over the top?Pro_Rata said:
I don't much fancy going to civil war against Marquee, GIN et al, but on days like today, with them spouting as they are,, I begin to wonder ....
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Not quite - as you extend the number of MPs returned the Tories and Lib Dems would have previously 30% and 10% of them...Gallowgate said:
100%+ this.Mango said:
And no safe seats. And the ability for individuals to diverge from manifestos. And no wasted votes.logical_song said:
With STV you can have geography-based constituencies and pretty good proportionality.
And democracy.
Although the North East would still be a safe Labour STV seat!
So in a seat returning 3 MPs it would be 2 Labour, 1 Tory. Returning 9 MPs, 5 Labour, 3 Tory 1 Lib Dem...
How constitencies work would be fun as the NE would probably split into 3 based on regional Mayors so it would be Tees Valley, Newcastle and Northumberland and the rest...0 -
Except for the subsequent political history. The LibDem organisation on the island is near non-existent. Most of the capable LibDem activists went Independent and controlled the council for a while, before it fell back into Tory hands. Meanwhile the Greens are strong on the island and had it as a target seat, but the 2017 squeeze and Corbynite surge hit them badly and they finished third behind Labour and the Tories.justin124 said:
The Isle of Wight was held by Stephen Ross for the Liberals 1974 - 1987. It should be a target seat for them.IanB2 said:
The issue won’t so much be tactical voting as against intelligent tactical voting. There are tons of Tory seats where Labour is now second that Labour won’t win in a month of Sundays, even if they were running close for lead in the polls, that could fall to other parties based on current poll ratings.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, there are going to be extremes of tactical voting across the board whenever the next election takes place. The one thing I would say is that I retain my faith in the essential decency of the majority of the British people. Unfortunately, though, the minority is bigger than I thought!IanB2 said:
Welcome!SouthamObserver said:
I spent my adult life wanting to live in a Labour/Tory marginal. Now I do I wish I didn't! But I am voting LibDem whatever now. I cannot support Corbyn Labour. It is a racist party. I am sure Johnson's Tory party is too. Given that, I have to actively vote against both.IanB2 said:
That depends on where you live. There are plenty of Labour held seats that the Tories will never win. And plenty of Tory and SNP seats that Labour will never win.SouthamObserver said:Whatever it reveals, tonight’s Panorama will change absolutely o leave are mad to stay!
The one reassurance is that, if things continue as they are, the next GE will be one on which the voting tallies from the previous GE will be less relevant than ever before.
One unusual example is the Isle of Wight, long a Green target, where Labour came second last time, but they will never be able to win. On latest polls the Greens are in with a shot, especially with a pact with the LDs, yet Labour will be able to use the 2017 result to try and squeeze the LD and Green vote in their favour. If non-Tory voters trended Green, they’d chalk up another gain, but the now time-expired Corbyn surge of 2017 makes this more difficult for them.
The LibDems are in a similar position in dozens of seats across the SW and Home Counties.
Realistically the only prospect of change is a Remain alliance with a Green candidate, and a Labour collapse. Otherwise the seat remains safe Tory.0 -
Mr B2
In that case you need an unholy alliance between the two. That won't happen, Corbynistas hate Blairites more than they do Johnson. Infact Corbynistas couldn't be happier whining about Boris from the safety of the opposition benches.0 -
Then let’s hope both the Tories and BXP stand, then..HYUFD said:
The Tories and Brexit Party together got more votes than Labour, the LDs, the Greens and CUK combined in Herefordshire in the European Parliament electionsIanB2 said:
Yet the LibDems remain the only alternative to the Tories along the welsh borders, and in the Euro elections the LibDems outpolled the Tories across Herefordshire by 2:1. If there is a Remain Alliance, seats such as those are winnable.Mexicanpete said:
When parts of Broadheath, the most exclusive suburb of Worcester was added to the constituency the game was up for the LDs. Roger Pincham nearly pipped PTM in 1974. Both were good guys.rural_voter said:
I was born in Leominster constituency and my impression from knowing people there is that they'd strongly prefer either Philip Dunne (Ludlow) or Jesse Norman (Hereford) as an MP. AFAIK neither of these MPs is the MD of a company based in a tax haven or has had a 'phantom mortgage'.matt said:H
Yet Leominster and North Herefordshire people vote for him. Perhaps the quality ails).Mexicanpete said:
I'll raise you Bill Wiggin!matt said:
Temple-Morris was flawed in many ways but at least he wasn’t the LD Paul Keetch who was a weapons grade moron. Shepherd wasn’t much better. Jesse Norman’s IQ is the equivalent of 5 Herefordians combined, which may not be helpful.Mexicanpete said:
I used to be in the unfortunate position as a Labour voter to live in Leominster constituency which was a Liberal/Tory marginal and later a LD Tory marginal so I tactically voted Lib and LD. The great irony of course is the true gentleman, Peter Temple-Morris I was voting against eventually crossed the floor.SouthamObserver said:
I spent my adult life wanting to live in a Labour/Tory marginal. Now I do I wish I didn't! But I am voting LibDem whatever now. I cannotacist party. I am sure .IanB2 said:
The Liberals almost won Leominster in the October 1974 GE but I don't think it's been a marginal for ~40 years. It's now what I'd call a 21st.C rotten borough, like Paterson's seat of N. Shropshire and I don't think it's a plausible L.Dem seat barring a huge realignment.
Temple-Morris was a good MP, i.e. good on the Tory scale. In terms of the earlier discussion today he was a classic One-Nation Tory and had no time for the Thatcherites. (I think the sentiment was fully reciprocated.)
https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/news/article/810/european_parliamentary_election_20190 -
I'm watching the Apollo doc.
In 50 years the US has gone from Kennedy & landing on the moon to Trump & no human spaceflight launch capability.1 -
I think it's actually more a question of the next election and only after that the future (although this does assume an election when we haven't left). For that scenario there are a fair few Labour seats where the only result is Labour or their Leave opponent (be it Tory or Brexit)... Down the line it's different but for the moment not campaigning hard and letting Labour alone fight some leave seats will do the Greens and Lib Dems no harm at all....IanB2 said:
I think it’s more fundamental than that. There is a space in modern politics for a left wing, socially conservative, party tied to the labour movement. There is a space for a social democratic, socially liberal party. But with the widening cultural faultline, it is increasingly difficult for a single party to gather in both constituencies.0 -
But Trump is going to have Space Force ;-)Pulpstar said:I'm watching the Apollo doc.
In 50 years the US has gone from Kennedy & landing on the moon to Trump & no human spaceflight launch capability.0 -
Given the lack of comments, I am going to guess the Panorama is a bit dull?0
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Space Cadet in Chief?FrancisUrquhart said:
But Trump is going to have Space Force ;-)Pulpstar said:I'm watching the Apollo doc.
In 50 years the US has gone from Kennedy & landing on the moon to Trump & no human spaceflight launch capability.0 -
or so engrossing no-one can tear away to post a comment...FrancisUrquhart said:Given the lack of comments, I am going to guess the Panorama is a bit dull?
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matt said:
Nothing would surprise me in Herefordshire. Anyone who claims superiority because they are Herefordshire born and bred is merely advertising that they were too stupid to leave. It’s like the Forest of Dean albeit with less incest.ydoethur said:
Do you mean that literally?!matt said:the Leominster greens are flat earthers
Yet one of the country’s most beautiful counties. Surely a great place to live, provided you don’t need a high paid job and aren’t heavily reliant on close to hand health services?0 -
Some of the Twitter comments from Corbyn's fanboys are so depressing. These people should be nowhere near power. They are as unhinged as the #freetommy frothers.0
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No, September 3rd is the last day required by the Electoral Commission for a general election by October 31st. Plus of course the Commons could VONC him at the end of July anyway.eek said:
Can it? Did you read the article I posted last week regarding timing or my various timeline posts of the past few weeks working backwards - that show it's impossible due to Parliamentary startup times...HYUFD said:
An election can be called as late as September 1st and still be held before October 31st.eek said:FPT and I know it's off topic for the clusterfuck that is going to be Panaroma and it's aftereffects
Unless an election is called on July 25th Boris will need an extension and Nigel will completely destroy him because of that..HYUFD said:
Given only Boris has a chance of delivering a majority for Brexit, not Farage, it is actually the other way around.eek said:I was bored for 5 minutes so this is for HYUFD - good luck in Boris's General Election campaign
Given this image which party do you vote for the Tories or Brexit...
It was Boris and Vote Leave and Cummings who got the Leave vote over 50% ,not Farage and Leave.EU and as long as the polls show a Boris led Tory Party ahead of the Brexit Party most Leavers will vote for the former
I'll add the second photo
Good luck in the election - a Boris lead Tories is going to need it
Plus as Boris has made clear he will take us out on October 31st Deal or No Deal and that assumes Macron would not veto further extension anyway, which as he has suggested he is likely to do
Unless Boris calls an election on July 25th he is screwed....
And if he thinks he's going to win an election he is in for a mighty surprise....
Either way Boris would be fine fighting a pre October 31st General election on a Brexit Deal or No Deal ticket0 -
Guess I'm the only one here watching the Moon Landing programme on BBC20
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In 1979 parts of Wyre Forest were also added to the constituency. It has no more tradition of Liberalism than Worcester.Mexicanpete said:
When parts of Broadheath, the most exclusive suburb of Worcester was added to the constituency the game was up for the LDs. Roger Pincham nearly pipped PTM in 1974. Both were good guys.rural_voter said:
I was born in Leominster constituency and my impression from knowing people there is that they'd strongly prefer either Philip Dunne (Ludlow) or Jesse Norman (Hereford) as an MP. AFAIK neither of these MPs is the MD of a company based in a tax haven or has had a 'phantom mortgage'.matt said:H
Yet Leominster and North Herefordshire people vote for him. Perhaps the quality of the opposition is not all that it might be (the Leominster greens are flat earthers for example). The latter point emphasising that a Green/LD pact might look good sense if one lives in, say, London. Less so where the LDs, the Greens and their supporters are a million miles apart (see Herefordshire Council for more details).Mexicanpete said:
I'll raise you Bill Wiggin!matt said:
Temple-Morris was flawed in many ways but at least he wasn’t the LD Paul Keetch who was a weapons grade moron. Shepherd wasn’t much better. Jesse Norman’s IQ is the equivalent of 5 Herefordians combined, which may not be helpful.Mexicanpete said:
I used to be in the unfortunate position as a Labour voter to live in Leominster constituency which was a Liberal/Tory marginal and later a LD Tory marginal so I tactically voted Lib and LD. The great irony of course is the true gentleman, Peter Temple-Morris I was voting against eventually crossed the floor.SouthamObserver said:
[del.]IanB2 said:
[del.]SouthamObserver said:[deleted]
The Liberals almost won Leominster in the October 1974 GE but I don't think it's been a marginal for ~40 years. It's now what I'd call a 21st.C rotten borough, like Paterson's seat of N. Shropshire and I don't think it's a plausible L.Dem seat barring a huge realignment.
Temple-Morris was a good MP, i.e. good on the Tory scale. In terms of the earlier discussion today he was a classic One-Nation Tory and had no time for the Thatcherites. (I think the sentiment was fully reciprocated.)0 -
I don't think it's telling us anything we didn't already know.FrancisUrquhart said:Given the lack of comments, I am going to guess the Panorama is a bit dull?
Labour come out of it badly - but if you bully, lie and misuse the law in order to shut people up about the fact you are a bunch of third-rate posh racist twits you will naturally look like a bunch of lowlifes.
The Labour responses are quite good value. They bear about as much resemblance to reality as the statements of Comical Ali, and are not much more coherent.0 -
What, and miss Love Island??Sunil_Prasannan said:Guess I'm the only one here watching the Moon Landing programme on BBC2
0 -
So far it’s mostly what we know already. What isn’t being said is that the problem stems from the left’s collective mindset and its conscious alignment with the heavyweight constituency of Muslim voters.eek said:
or so engrossing no-one can tear away to post a comment...FrancisUrquhart said:Given the lack of comments, I am going to guess the Panorama is a bit dull?
The revelations about the interference of the leader’s office and Gen Secretary are imminent, I think...0 -
I lived and worked in Hereford for 3 years, it is a beautiful county and though wages are lower house prices and rents and cost of living are much lower tooIanB2 said:matt said:
Nothing would surprise me in Herefordshire. Anyone who claims superiority because they are Herefordshire born and bred is merely advertising that they were too stupid to leave. It’s like the Forest of Dean albeit with less incest.ydoethur said:
Do you mean that literally?!matt said:the Leominster greens are flat earthers
Yet one of the country’s most beautiful counties. Surely a great place to live, provided you don’t need a high paid job and aren’t heavily reliant on close to hand health services?0 -
So far I'd say this is bad but not horrendous for Labour.0
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I assumed that it was going to be the case that all it showed was the Milne pulls the strings and Uncle Thickie don't give a shit about tackling the issue... and hence why I am not bothering to watch it.ydoethur said:
I don't think it's telling us anything we didn't already know.FrancisUrquhart said:Given the lack of comments, I am going to guess the Panorama is a bit dull?
Labour come out of it badly - but if you bully, lie and misuse the law in order to shut people up about the fact you are a bunch of third-rate posh racist twits you will naturally look like a bunch of lowlifes.
The Labour responses are quite good value. They bear about as much resemblance to reality as the statements of Comical Ali, and are not much more coherent.0 -
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My point was Broadheath like the areas I am guessing you are alluding to, Abberley, Great Witley, that sort of area only had the Conservative sort of tradition.rural_voter said:
In 1979 parts of Wyre Forest were also added to the constituency. It has no more tradition of Liberalism than Worcester.Mexicanpete said:
When parts of Broadheath, the most exclusive suburb of Worcester was added to the constituency the game was up for the LDs. Roger Pincham nearly pipped PTM in 1974. Both were good guys.rural_voter said:
I was born in Leominster constituency and my impression from knowing people there is that they'd strongly prefer either Philip Dunne (Ludlow) or Jesse Norman (Hereford) as an MP. AFAIK neither of these MPs is the MD of a company based in a tax haven or has had a 'phantom mortgage'.matt said:H
Yet Leominster and North Herefordshire people vote for him. Perhaps the quality of the opposition is not all that it might be (the Leominster greens are flat earthers for example). The latter point emphasising that a Green/LD pact might look good sense if one lives in, say, London. Less so where the LDs, the Greens and their supporters are a million miles apart (see Herefordshire Council for more details).Mexicanpete said:
I'll raise you Bill Wiggin!matt said:
Temple-Morris was flawed in many ways but at least he wasn’t the LD Paul Keetch who was a weapons grade moron. Shepherd wasn’t much better. Jesse Norman’s IQ is the equivalent of 5 Herefordians combined, which may not be helpful.Mexicanpete said:
I used to be in the unfortunate position as a Labour voter to live in Leominster constituency which was a Liberal/Tory marginal and later a LD Tory marginal so I tactically voted Lib and LD. The great irony of course is the true gentleman, Peter Temple-Morris I was voting against eventually crossed the floor.SouthamObserver said:
[del.]IanB2 said:
[del.]SouthamObserver said:[deleted]
The Liberals almost won Leominster in the October 1974 GE but I don't think it's been a marginal for ~40 years. It's now what I'd call a 21st.C rotten borough, like Paterson's seat of N. Shropshire and I don't think it's a plausible L.Dem seat barring a huge realignment.
Temple-Morris was a good MP, i.e. good on the Tory scale. In terms of the earlier discussion today he was a classic One-Nation Tory and had no time for the Thatcherites. (I think the sentiment was fully reciprocated.)0 -
I do not see a smoking gun.Byronic said:So far I'd say this is bad but not horrendous for Labour.
Milne and Livingstone are a pair of racists with the intellects of dead camels, but we already knew that.
So far, there is nothing to show Corbyn has lied or himself been a racist bully, or any other close ally in the Commons. So I think it is as you say not disastrous.0 -
Oh how far we have fallen.ydoethur said:
I do not see a smoking gun.Byronic said:So far I'd say this is bad but not horrendous for Labour.
Milne and Livingstone are a pair of racists with the intellects of dead camels, but we already knew that.
So far, there is nothing to show Corbyn has lied or himself been a racist bully, or any other close ally in the Commons. So I think it is as you say not disastrous.0 -
Corbyn is too busy signing apples and making jam to get involved....ydoethur said:
I do not see a smoking gun.Byronic said:So far I'd say this is bad but not horrendous for Labour.
Milne and Livingstone are a pair of racists with the intellects of dead camels, but we already knew that.
So far, there is nothing to show Corbyn has lied or himself been a racist bully, or any other close ally in the Commons. So I think it is as you say not disastrous.0 -
It's not An election under the FTPA requires 25 working days between being called and the date of the election so in theory it could be called on September 24th and held on October 31st.HYUFD said:
No, September 3rd is the last day required by the Electoral Commission for a general election by October 31st. Plus of course the Commons could VONC him at the end of July anyway.eek said:
Can it? Did you read the article I posted last week regarding timing or my various timeline posts of the past few weeks working backwards - that show it's impossible due to Parliamentary startup times...HYUFD said:
An election can be called as late as September 1st and still be held before October 31st.eek said:FPT and I know it's off topic for the clusterfuck that is going to be Panaroma and it's aftereffects
Unless an election is called on July 25th Boris will need an extension and Nigel will completely destroy him because of that..
I'll add the second photo
Good luck in the election - a Boris lead Tories is going to need it
Plus as Boris has made clear he will take us out on October 31st Deal or No Deal and that assumes Macron would not veto further extension anyway, which as he has suggested he is likely to do
Unless Boris calls an election on July 25th he is screwed....
And if he thinks he's going to win an election he is in for a mighty surprise....
Either way Boris would be fine fighting a pre October 31st General election on a Brexit Deal or No Deal ticket
Realistically it would need to be called earlier than the 24th but Party conferences get in the way.
However even if it was called on September 3rd with an election on October 10th, Parliament needs 2 weeks to be sworn in and there is more than 1 week of bills required for No Deal to be implemented.
The problem is that Boris isn't very good on detail, so he is only going to discover the issues above when it's too late...
Which means an extension will be required and any extension will result in Farage destroying him.
So if Boris wants an election he needs to go for it on July 25th...0 -
Alas, yes. That is what would be needed to sort this out.Gallowgate said:
Oh how far we have fallen.ydoethur said:
I do not see a smoking gun.Byronic said:So far I'd say this is bad but not horrendous for Labour.
Milne and Livingstone are a pair of racists with the intellects of dead camels, but we already knew that.
So far, there is nothing to show Corbyn has lied or himself been a racist bully, or any other close ally in the Commons. So I think it is as you say not disastrous.0 -
Somebody tell Nick Boles a 40% LD vote finishes both Boris and Jeremy consigning them both to the dustbin of history where they belong.Scott_P said:0 -
Hi Sean. What does your 20-summat Corbynista wife make of it?Byronic said:So far I'd say this is bad but not horrendous for Labour.
(EDIT: only kidding!)0 -
No! 'Corbyn' and 'disastrous' are synonyms.ydoethur said:
I do not see a smoking gun.Byronic said:So far I'd say this is bad but not horrendous for Labour.
Milne and Livingstone are a pair of racists with the intellects of dead camels, but we already knew that.
So far, there is nothing to show Corbyn has lied or himself been a racist bully, or any other close ally in the Commons. So I think it is as you say not disastrous.0 -
I have never before felt so alienated from the people & process that governs the country in which I live. It's isn't just the PM candidates, I'm afraid. The whole of Parliament seems ... inadequate.Scott_P said:
Good evening, everyone.0 -
Party conferences have often made way for Autumn General Elections.eek said:
It's not An election under the FTPA requires 25 working days between being called and the date of the election so in theory it could be called on September 24th and held on October 31st.HYUFD said:
No, September 3rd is the last day required by the Electoral Commission for a general election by October 31st. Plus of course the Commons could VONC him at the end of July anyway.eek said:
Can it? Did you read the article I posted last week regarding timing or my various timeline posts of the past few weeks working backwards - that show it's impossible due to Parliamentary startup times...HYUFD said:
An election can be called as late as September 1st and still be held before October 31st.eek said:FPT and I know it's off topic for the clusterfuck that is going to be Panaroma and it's aftereffects
Unless an election is called on July 25th Boris will need an extension and Nigel will completely destroy him because of that..HYUFD said:
Given only Boris has a chance of delivering a majority for Brexit, not Farage, it is actually the other way around.eek said:I was bored for 5 minutes so this is for HYUFD - good luck in Boris's General Election campaign
Given this image which party do you vote for the Tories or Brexit...
It was Boris and Vote Leave and Cummings who got the Leave vote over 50% ,not Farage and Leave.EU and as long as the polls show a Boris led Tory Party ahead of the Brexit Party most Leavers will vote for the former
I'll add the second photo
Good luck in the election - a Boris lead Tories is going to need it
Plus as Boris has made clear he will take us out on October 31st Deal or No Deal and that assumes Macron would not veto further extension anyway, which as he has suggested he is likely to do
Unless Boris calls an election on July 25th he is screwed....
And if he thinks he's going to win an election he is in for a mighty surprise....
Either way Boris would be fine fighting a pre October 31st General election on a Brexit Deal or No Deal ticket
Realistically it would need to be called earlier than the 24th but Party conferences get in the way.
However even if it was called on September 3rd with an election on October 10th, Parliament needs 2 weeks to be sworn in and there is more than 1 week of bills required for No Deal to be implemented.
The problem is that Boris isn't very good on detail is only going to discover this when it's too late...0 -
People who say they intend to vote Lib Dem need to actually go out and vote Lib Dem for a start..eek said:0 -
Corbyn does come across as a malignant, stupid, conniving old c*nt, surrounded by similar creepaloids.
But I think that is already priced in to his appalling poll ratings.
This programme won't destroy Corbyn's Labour, but it will be another weight forever holding them down.0 -
You missed out 'dishonest.'Byronic said:Corbyn does come across as a malignant, stupid, conniving old c*nt, surrounded by similar creepaloids.
But I think that is already priced in to his appalling poll ratings.
This programme won't destroy Corbyn's Labour, but it will be another weight forever holding them down.
But again, that isn't news.0 -
You've see the flaw in the idea...Pulpstar said:0 -
Labour ex-MP posting here would give a different view. Shame he disappears during shit/fan interfaces.Byronic said:Corbyn does come across as a malignant, stupid, conniving old c*nt, surrounded by similar creepaloids.
But I think that is already priced in to his appalling poll ratings.
This programme won't destroy Corbyn's Labour, but it will be another weight forever holding them down.0 -
I'm watching the roots of the Civil War show on BBC 4. Confirms me as a would have been a Royalist. Charles 1 was incompetent, but he was dealing with the Taliban.Sunil_Prasannan said:Guess I'm the only one here watching the Moon Landing programme on BBC2
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Currently level with the Conservatives on 23% and capable of hoovering up more votes from those disenchanted with Johnson and Corbyn.eek said:
The reason many people vote Conservative or Labour is not because they are strongly pro-Conservative or pro-Labour but they are anti the other party and vote for the one party because they believe if they don't the other party will get in. Break the spell and the two old parties fall apart - it's happened in by-elections before.
As for 40%, I'm aiming high - 35% will do fine. The split Con, Lab and TBP votes will do the rest.0 -
I'm watching Chernobyl instead, I figured that would be more uplifting.Gallowgate said:I'm not watching Love Island for this so it better be good.
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He was there, but does think he was involved...ydoethur said:
You missed out 'dishonest.'Byronic said:Corbyn does come across as a malignant, stupid, conniving old c*nt, surrounded by similar creepaloids.
But I think that is already priced in to his appalling poll ratings.
This programme won't destroy Corbyn's Labour, but it will be another weight forever holding them down.
But again, that isn't news.0 -
Corbyn's association with anti-Semitic Islamists is the most damning accusation of all.0
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I'm told it's hot stuff *innocent face*kle4 said:
I'm watching Chernobyl instead, I figured that would be more uplifting.Gallowgate said:I'm not watching Love Island for this so it better be good.
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Surely not, I'm shocked I tell you, shocked...Byronic said:Corbyn's association with anti-Semitic Islamists is the most damning accusation of all.
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If Boris win a parliamentary majority for Brexit, Deal or No Deal before October 31st that is what would happen as he would not ask for an extension and Parliament would not try and force him to ask for an extension.eek said:
It's not An election under the FTPA requires 25 working days between being called and the date of the election so in theory it could be called on September 24th and held on October 31st.HYUFD said:
No, September 3rd is the last day required by the Electoral Commission for a general election by October 31st. Plus of course the Commons could VONC him at the end of July anyway.eek said:
Can it? Did you read the article I posted last week regarding timing or my various timeline posts of the past few weeks working backwards - that show it's impossible due to Parliamentary startup times...HYUFD said:
An election can be called as late as September 1st and still be held before October 31st.eek said:FPT and I know it's off topic for the clusterfuck that is going to be Panaroma and it's aftereffects
Unless an election is called on July 25th Boris will need an extension and Nigel will completely destroy him because of that..
I'll add the second photo
Good luck in the election - a Boris lead Tories is going to need it
Plus as Boris has made clear he will take us out on October 31st Deal or No Deal and that assumes Macron would not veto further extension anyway, which as he has suggested he is likely to do
Unless Boris calls an election on July 25th he is screwed....
And if he thinks he's going to win an election he is in for a mighty surprise....
Either way Boris would be fine fighting a pre October 31st General election on a Brexit Deal or No Deal ticket
Realistically it would need to be called earlier than the 24th but Party conferences get in the way.
However even if it was called on September 3rd with an election on October 10th, Parliament needs 2 weeks to be sworn in and there is more than 1 week of bills required for No Deal to be implemented.
The problem is that Boris isn't very good on detail, so he is only going to discover the issues above when it's too late...
Which means an extension will be required and any extension will result in Farage destroying him.
So if Boris wants an election he needs to go for it on July 25th...
There may be some No Deal tidying up bills and subsequent renegotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement to at least remove the temporary Customs Union for GB but with no extension requested we would leave the EU on 31st October0 -
Not sure why Labour have been flapping about so much the past day or so then. You'd think they'd be used to this issue cropping up every couple of weeks or months, it happens like clockwork and bar a few Tiggers (who seemed to care more about the EU issue anyway) nothing every happens.ydoethur said:
I do not see a smoking gun.Byronic said:So far I'd say this is bad but not horrendous for Labour.
Milne and Livingstone are a pair of racists with the intellects of dead camels, but we already knew that.
So far, there is nothing to show Corbyn has lied or himself been a racist bully, or any other close ally in the Commons. So I think it is as you say not disastrous.0 -
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This is getting worse for Labour.0
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I've become a Lib Dem 'supporter' tonight. F*ck it.0
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Hey Sunil, I'm recording it - so no spoilers please!Sunil_Prasannan said:Guess I'm the only one here watching the Moon Landing programme on BBC2
0 -
The most embarrassing thing about this for Labour is the bizarre nature of their statement in response. It's so badly put together and unconvincing you would think Jeffrey Archer would blench at it.0
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Don'y worry, it won't taint you - I voted LD at three GEs, and it's only the one Tory GE vote that is tainting, I am assured.Gallowgate said:I've become a Lib Dem 'supporter' tonight. F*ck it.
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HYUFD said:
If Boris win a parliamentary majority for Brexit, Deal or No Deal before October 31st that is what would happen as he would not ask for an extension and Parliament would not try and force him to ask for an extension.
There may be some No Deal tidying up bills and subsequent renegotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement to at least remove the temporary Customs Union for GB but with no extension requested we would leave the EU on 31st October
Deal requires time to get the bills through Parliament.
No Deal requires time to get bills through Parliament\
If Boris campaigns on a No Deal Brexit the Tory party is totally and utterly toast.
You may not see it yet but I can imagine the posters already - mine aren't even the beginning of them...
I can easily explain in 8 steps enough to scare your average Leave Pensioner back to Labour....
It ends with less tax revenue, less money to pay your pension and no legal requirement to do so as we are outside the EU...0 -
Actually, fuck it, Labour are disgusting. A disgusting party. Let them die.0
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Wait until they are in government....Trumpian...ydoethur said:The most embarrassing thing about this for Labour is the bizarre nature of their statement in response. It's so badly put together and unconvincing you would think Jeffrey Archer would blench at it.
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Because they don't deal well with criticism. They are self-righteous and condescending and believe they are naturally perfect. Therefore, to be told they are racist thickos by an organisation they can't describe as right-wing is deeply upsetting for them.kle4 said:
Not sure why Labour have been flapping about so much the past day or so then. You'd think they'd be used to this issue cropping up every couple of weeks or months, it happens like clockwork and bar a few Tiggers (who seemed to care more about the EU issue anyway) nothing every happens.ydoethur said:
I do not see a smoking gun.Byronic said:So far I'd say this is bad but not horrendous for Labour.
Milne and Livingstone are a pair of racists with the intellects of dead camels, but we already knew that.
So far, there is nothing to show Corbyn has lied or himself been a racist bully, or any other close ally in the Commons. So I think it is as you say not disastrous.
Think Trump and Darroch only with somebody less intelligent than Trump.0 -
There you go... Just when I had convinced myself you're not SeanT you come out with this classic.Byronic said:Actually, fuck it, Labour are disgusting. A disgusting party. Let them die.
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Byng wasn’t jailed as I recall...ydoethur said:
So are our own ambassadors. How will they dare to be honest if they're just going to be pilloried like this? Or worse, if they said something nasty about a psychopath - say, President Xi - and suffered a little accident.Scott_P said:
The damage done is enormous. I hope whoever did it is found and jailed good and hard under the Byng principle.0 -
I agree with Massie on that. Ok, we won't always make a good judgement on the question, but 'would I attack issue X if my side did it?' or indeed the reverse, is a pretty good rule of thumb for determining just how partisan an attack is.Scott_P said:0 -
I was wrong in my initial judgement. This programme is quietly devastating.0
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The principle is 'to motivate the rest.'Charles said:
Byng wasn’t jailed as I recall...ydoethur said:
So are our own ambassadors. How will they dare to be honest if they're just going to be pilloried like this? Or worse, if they said something nasty about a psychopath - say, President Xi - and suffered a little accident.Scott_P said:
The damage done is enormous. I hope whoever did it is found and jailed good and hard under the Byng principle.
They need to learn that as diplomats they cannot be Candide.0 -
https://twitter.com/labourpress/status/1149057374155620357ydoethur said:The most embarrassing thing about this for Labour is the bizarre nature of their statement in response. It's so badly put together and unconvincing you would think Jeffrey Archer would blench at it.
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Genuine question - will Corbyn himself actually watch the programme or will he simply be briefed on its contents?0
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If you live in a safe parliamentary seat, the answer to the second question is “fuck all.” Thanks to PR, you have some input on the first.Philip_Thompson said:
It's a ratchett that already exists.Mexicanpete said:
Ah, that old chestnut, the Federal United States of Europe!Philip_Thompson said:
I prefer to have democracy as the safeguard.Mexicanpete said:
I think so. I just preferred it when there were safeguards to reign in the excesses of for example a Corbyn government's Soviet-style programme. I guess you are ok with that, and heaven forbid it became a popular Soviet- style populist government. Blimey, if it moves they could nationalise it.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed he could and I would see to undo that at the next election. Democracy, do you understand the concept?Mexicanpete said:
Son-of- Corbyn could do an awful lot of damage to your Nirvana in 5 years, including of course re-joining the EU without a referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually I'm happy to have the HoC determine future laws whether it is manned by the right or wrong sort of MPs. If it is the wrong sort of MPs we can remove them at the ballot box, something we can't do with the unelected von der Leyen.Mexicanpete said:So you will be quite happy to a have the HoC determine future laws so long as it is manned by the right sort of MPs.who can continue their business unfettered by the constraints of the EU. How will you feel when son-of-Corbyn is elected in a landslide sometime in the future? it could happen, unless your chaps are planning safeguards to ensure that never happens.
Or are you suggesting voters take control and all primary legislation must be agreed by plebicite. If so let's have a vote on No Deal!
If son-of-Corbyn is elected I will be very disappointed and campaign to seek to see his tenure terminated and his decisions reversed at the next election. Ie democracy.
What happens if a future EU-led government led to Soviet-style populist government and we can't kick it out at the ballot box?
If we want to undo an EU-law how can we do so via the ballot box?
If we want to undo a UK-law how can we do so via the ballot box?2 -
Yes. Exactly. It is the harrowing personal testimony.ydoethur said:
In many ways this series of people being forced out on sick leave and forced to sign NDAs is the most serious thing, because this really is news.Byronic said:I was wrong in my initial judgement. This programme is quietly devastating.
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Devastating.
Thank God for the BBC.
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This discussion has been closed.