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No they haven’t. If we had gone into the Euro at that time it would have put much more scrutiny on Brown without getting a free pass from the ‘independent Bank of England’.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:0 -
Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.0 -
I find that genuinely surprising (given what you post on here) but good for you.Nigel_Foremain said:
Nope, I think you are possibly a moron because your political instinct/frame of reference can't recognise a Tory, just because I don't agree with the un-Conservative policy of Brexit. I have been a member for over 20 years, and an activist (though not now).GIN1138 said:
You only think that because you agree over BrexitNigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now.Scott_P said:
I bet in 2001 you thought he was a moron and voted for Blair!
I loathed Blair, his petty cool Britannia, his irritating style of speech, his persecution of people in the countryside, his use of the military to suck up to George W Bush and his general hypocrisy. In spite of all of this comparative awfulness he will be seen as a brilliant PM compared to Bozo. As a genuine Conservative (rather than the Johnny come lately variety) I find that regrettable.
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Phillips vs Stewart at PMQs is an exchange I'd watch.Dura_Ace said:
RLB is a continuity Corbynite and hence a palatable choice to the current regime. It has to be a woman and Labour would be best served by Jess Rodham Philips but she has no chance.nico67 said:
I’d rather have Corbyn . Are the Labour Party mad . Long Bailey is hopeless .Pulpstar said:Long Bailey now favourite for Labour leader.
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Stiff competition in the 'Most Annoying Politician Handicap'. Laura Pidcock the clear favourite, but Rebecca Long Bailey, Mark Francois, Ian Blackford, Sammy Wilson, Steve Baker, Richard Burgon, Ian Lavery, Bill Cash all running strongly.rottenborough said:
Interesting...Pulpstar said:Long Bailey now favourite for Labour leader.
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The DUP support no Brexit. The union comes first, and they know any form of Brexit is likely to boost the chances of a united Ireland. By demanding an end to the backstop, which they know cannot be delivered, they are merely ensuring that a deal cannot be agreed, and they know parliament will block no deal so, perforce, Brexit will not happen.nico67 said:So the DUP support no deal .
They really are a disgrace .0 -
The DUP are doing more to deliver a united Ireland than Sinn Féin/IRA have ever done.nico67 said:So the DUP support no deal .
They really are a disgrace .0 -
The soggy middle ?TOPPING said:
I'd forgotten about theseNigelb said:
Very much suck it and see, at the moment.Alistair said:
There's a hole in your statement there.MikeSmithson said:
In a head to head this polo had Harris ahead of BidenPulpstar said:There's a Quinnipiac poll out today, could shed more light - or more heat...
In addition to the RCP polls there was a Rasmussen poll out showing Biden in the low 30s with the rest of the big 4 on 13. It wasn't quite a VI poll though so maybe that's why it isn't in the RCP average.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/biden_still_leads_among_democrats_but_support_is_down
https://marketingweek.com/1996/02/16/nestle-adds-holes-to-the-polo-range-2/0 -
It’s going to be Diane Abbott.Pulpstar said:AlastairMeeks said:
One of my happier candidates. I got on her on Betfair at 350.Pulpstar said:Long Bailey now favourite for Labour leader.
I'm hopeful of the Dawn Butler train pulling into 20ish for a tale like that yet.0 -
It'd have made Brexit impossible. Even for Boris. See Salvini, Orban, MorawieckiNigel_Foremain said:
I wasn't in favour of it at the time, but I suspect we would have found it very helpful for our economy, but as you say, we have no idea, except that it would have made Brexit even more damaging than it already will beTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:0 -
We did have a housing boom that Gordon Brown was able to get away with ignoring because the monetary policy framework he set up allowed him to pretend there was no problem. Take away that fig leaf and he would have had to address it.eek said:
Look at Ireland and multiple it by 20.... Our housing market would have gone the same way as theirs did and would have blown up our banks far more than even 2008 did...TOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
In the counterfactual where Blair was tough enough to overrule Brown, he might not have remained as chancellor at all.0 -
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".0 -
Utterly deluded. How much scrutiny has there been on Italy and France?williamglenn said:
No they haven’t. If we had gone into the Euro at that time it would have put much more scrutiny on Brown without getting a free pass from the ‘independent Bank of England’.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:0 -
100% correct. DUP is a Remain party and is acting without scruple. They are no friends of the Conservatives.anothernick said:
The DUP support no Brexit. The union comes first, and they know any form of Brexit is likely to boost the chances of a united Ireland. By demanding an end to the backstop, which they know cannot be delivered, they are merely ensuring that a deal cannot be agreed, and they know parliament will block no deal so, perforce, Brexit will not happen.nico67 said:So the DUP support no deal .
They really are a disgrace .
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You’re ignoring source of the triumphalism that came from the framework Brown created for us outside the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".0 -
I’m talking about domestic political scrutiny, from the press and the opposition.tlg86 said:
Utterly deluded. How much scrutiny has there been on Italy and France?williamglenn said:
No they haven’t. If we had gone into the Euro at that time it would have put much more scrutiny on Brown without getting a free pass from the ‘independent Bank of England’.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:0 -
"Someone else" is still the best bet in the labour leadership betting I think.TheScreamingEagles said:
It’s going to be Diane Abbott.Pulpstar said:AlastairMeeks said:
One of my happier candidates. I got on her on Betfair at 350.Pulpstar said:Long Bailey now favourite for Labour leader.
I'm hopeful of the Dawn Butler train pulling into 20ish for a tale like that yet.1 -
"We want to be in Yoorup not run by Yoorup"Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:0 -
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.0 -
Even more deluded.williamglenn said:
I’m talking about domestic political scrutiny, from the press and the opposition.tlg86 said:
Utterly deluded. How much scrutiny has there been on Italy and France?williamglenn said:
No they haven’t. If we had gone into the Euro at that time it would have put much more scrutiny on Brown without getting a free pass from the ‘independent Bank of England’.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:0 -
What difference would it make? Yes, you are right but these are not normal times and the Conservatives have decided to tear themselves apart even without forensic dissection by the leader of the opposition. Soon they will elect a new leader who has made contradictory and impossible pledges (as they both have) and who will face the same parliamentary arithmetic, or even worse, than Theresa May. And one of them has a backstory that is a gift to Labour's spin team.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1145774857377984518
Why? Why do his supporters not see this? Labour under an effective, combative leader like Brown or Smith would be taking this shower apart at the dispatch box every day.
Ironically, a Smith, Blair or Brown might have made things easier for the blue team by uniting it in defence of Theresa May.0 -
I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.0 -
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.0 -
I don't know the orientation of the Strasbourg parliament, but perhaps the BXPers were turning to face Moscow?TheScreamingEagles said:
Reminds me of the BNP et al turning their backs to Sadiq Khan in 2016.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Voter, quite childish to turn their backs.
Such is politics.
Started a meme that they were facing Mecca to pray.1 -
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
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Why? The Eurosceptic press would have been certain we were heading for disaster inside the Euro and would never have missed an opportunity to point out the economic risks of domestic policies in that context. Instead we had triumphalism because we were out of the Euro and the nice independent Bank of England said there was no problem with house price inflation.tlg86 said:
Even more deluded.williamglenn said:
I’m talking about domestic political scrutiny, from the press and the opposition.tlg86 said:
Utterly deluded. How much scrutiny has there been on Italy and France?williamglenn said:
No they haven’t. If we had gone into the Euro at that time it would have put much more scrutiny on Brown without getting a free pass from the ‘independent Bank of England’.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:0 -
'Fraid so. Lucky BJ's Tories will be worseAlanbrooke said:
It isRoger said:
51.25 to be what? To keep her seat? She makes the Labour Party sound moronic.Pulpstar said:
Are they putting her on the TV more ? I bought £12 @ 51.25 and note she has shortened to 32/34.Roger said:It's difficult for non Tory politicians to get air time while the leadership campaign is going on. Does any Labour supporter think it advances their cause to use any space they do get with Laura Pidcock?
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Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.0 -
The E=mc2 of Brexit is that the political cost of implementing any specific version of it is always greater than the political capital available to any government.Alanbrooke said:now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
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For who ?TOPPING said:
Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.0 -
that applies to lots of things and still we move on.williamglenn said:
The E=mc2 of Brexit is that the political cost of implementing any specific version of it is always greater than the political capital available to any government.Alanbrooke said:now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
0 -
Linking as a discussion point here, seems the Brexit parties main policy platform is basically declaring war on London :
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/11456856545185996810 -
Yes, still we move on without them happening. Brexit can be added to the list.Alanbrooke said:
that applies to lots of things and still we move on.williamglenn said:
The E=mc2 of Brexit is that the political cost of implementing any specific version of it is always greater than the political capital available to any government.Alanbrooke said:now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
0 -
If Brexit ushers in a Labour Government it's the wallets of well-off pensioners that are going to feel it most. Labour can completely afford to ignore that demographic. There is a certain poetic justice in thatAlanbrooke said:
just wait until Mcdonnell gets his hand on your walletGardenwalker said:
The fisherfolk all voted for self immolation.Scott_P said:
Why should my tax money bail out those fuckers?1 -
Who might the winners be, other than tax evaders and Putin?Alanbrooke said:
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.0 -
ho hum mild trollingwilliamglenn said:
Yes, still we move on without them happening. Brexit can be added to the list.Alanbrooke said:
that applies to lots of things and still we move on.williamglenn said:
The E=mc2 of Brexit is that the political cost of implementing any specific version of it is always greater than the political capital available to any government.Alanbrooke said:now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
0 -
20 - 25 more likely.Foxy said:
1/3Charles said:
What odds will you give me for the LD on less than 50 seats (allowing margin of error for SNP)?Foxy said:
Times they are a changing...DecrepitJohnL said:
The LibDems are irrelevant at Westminster because they have only a handful of MPs. They are the fifth party (with the DUP's C&S agreement putting them a nose ahead).Foxy said:
Brexit make coalition with the Tories impossible, Corbyn makes coalition with Labour impossible. Corbyn and his clique are easier to change. Either way, lessons have been learnt from the previous Westminster Coalition. Worth noting that in devolved parliaments and local government, working with other parties is unremarkable. Why should Westminster be different? We do not need to restrict ourselves to the two seatbelts on offer.kle4 said:I think stodge makes an important point about the lds and coalition and not perpetuating paralysis, though I think he underestimates the trouble they could get in. The lds would prefer not to have to even deal with anyone else, in a way an extreme view as a rejection of compromise, because they get punished for doing so. But it will probably be unavoidable. What the members do this time as they cut deals will be interesting.
As the third party, LibDems would be on almost every news and current affairs programme for balance. Now they are not.
Nick Clegg's disastrous coalition agreement, where he prostituted the party's programme and principles for an AV referendum which he promptly lost, was one nail in the LibDems' coffin but the other is the rise of the SNP, who have five times as many MPs. That is the reality and worrying about yellow dresses and reaching out to other parties misses the point that until there is a recovery, they will remain irrelevant.
What they need is another Chat Show Charlie, and they ain't got one.
LDs are likely to be the third party in Westminster after the next election.
While 50 is a reasonable target, 30 -40 is more realistic.0 -
arent they all supposed to be dead by now ?OllyT said:
If Brexit ushers in a Labour Government it's the wallets of well-off pensioners that are going to feel it most. Labour can completely afford to ignore that demographic. There is a certain poetic justice in thatAlanbrooke said:
just wait until Mcdonnell gets his hand on your walletGardenwalker said:
The fisherfolk all voted for self immolation.Scott_P said:
Why should my tax money bail out those fuckers?0 -
theyre both winners atm and we havent left yet.Mango said:
Who might the winners be, other than tax evaders and Putin?Alanbrooke said:
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.0 -
People who have the least will be the losers. I am very lucky in that I am not one of those.Alanbrooke said:
For who ?TOPPING said:
Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.0 -
If only Barry Gardiner was a woman.0
-
https://twitter.com/carlgardner/status/1145999424763703296Theuniondivvie said:I don't know the orientation of the Strasbourg parliament, but perhaps the BXPers were turning to face Moscow?
0 -
So they will be fighting on two fronts - the RoI and London. Shades of 1914 here.Pulpstar said:Linking as a discussion point here, seems the Brexit parties main policy platform is basically declaring war on London :
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/11456856545185996810 -
Only if he's a blue passport manufacturers or a chicken who wants to be freshened up in chlorineAlanbrooke said:
For who ?TOPPING said:
Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.0 -
I doubt they will be any worse off. When youre at the bottom the there isnt anywhere else to go. More likely it will be tax hikes on the better off and a clampdown on coporate avoidance.TOPPING said:
People who have the least will be the losers. I am very lucky in that I am not one of those.Alanbrooke said:
For who ?TOPPING said:
Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would ha we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. r Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
0 -
Barbour and a suit and tie is hardly the image of modern Britain. Its not just London, but anyone under the age of 55 I think...Pulpstar said:Linking as a discussion point here, seems the Brexit parties main policy platform is basically declaring war on London :
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/11456856545185996810 -
oh dear Roger the ideas factory is looking a bit staleRoger said:
Only if he's a blue passport manufacturers or a chicken who wants to be freshened up in chlorineAlanbrooke said:
For who ?TOPPING said:
Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent invested them with any certaintie your own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
try some snappier lines0 -
Long Odds on Short Trousers!AlastairMeeks said:
One of my happier candidates. I got on her on Betfair at 350.Pulpstar said:Long Bailey now favourite for Labour leader.
I suppose given a field of RLB, Pidcock and Cat Smith, we have a rightful favourite.0 -
It annoys me no end when opponents call HS2 a vanity project.TOPPING said:
So they will be fighting on two fronts - the RoI and London. Shades of 1914 here.Pulpstar said:Linking as a discussion point here, seems the Brexit parties main policy platform is basically declaring war on London :
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1145685654518599681
Whose vanity? UK plc? Osborne? Cameron? Neither of these two is in Parliament and is not likely to be in 2028 when it opens. Clegg - same. The current PM or next PM? No - same - wont be in power by then.
So no one who was in power when HS2 was being guided through Commons will be around to cut the tape.
0 -
Remarkably naive from someone with a self-image of studied worldliness.Alanbrooke said:When youre at the bottom the there isnt anywhere else to go.
0 -
We shall see. It will be the equivalent of an extra 10p on beer and fags. But I doubt many will notice. Doesn't mean they will not be worse off.Alanbrooke said:
I doubt they will be any worse off. When youre at the bottom the there isnt anywhere else to go. More likely it will be tax hikes on the better off and a clampdown on coporate avoidance.TOPPING said:
People who have the least will be the losers. I am very lucky in that I am not one of those.Alanbrooke said:
For who ?TOPPING said:
Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted"Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would ha we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if weould have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. r Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.0 -
-
RLB is highly rated by McDonnell, who is a sharp operator.SandyRentool said:
Long Odds on Short Trousers!AlastairMeeks said:
One of my happier candidates. I got on her on Betfair at 350.Pulpstar said:Long Bailey now favourite for Labour leader.
I suppose given a field of RLB, Pidcock and Cat Smith, we have a rightful favourite.0 -
I thought that was because she ticked his boxes of 1. Woman; 2. Easy to controlrottenborough said:
RLB is highly rated by McDonnell, who is a sharp operator.0 -
0
-
chortleTOPPING said:
We shall see. It will be the equivalent of an extra 10p on beer and fags. But I doubt many will notice. Doesn't mean they will not be worse off.Alanbrooke said:
I doubt they will be any avoidance.TOPPING said:
People who have the least will be the losers. I am very lucky in that I am not one of those.Alanbrooke said:
For who ?TOPPING said:
Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent invested them with any certainties, ther own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid e global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted"Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would ha we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if weould have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. r Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
irrespective of Brexit we are heading for the usual middle class misanthropy of minimum alcohol pricing.
It will hit the lower orders but leave the heavy dinking professionals untouched. we will then tie it all up with a big dose of hypocisy and tell the oiks its for their own good.
sugar taxto follow.0 -
Mr. Borough, that could just means she might be malleable.
People can back others for weird reasons. We need only look at those who are backing Boris on the basis he's duplicitous.0 -
that's a funny tweetwilliamglenn said:Is the Tory party funding this?
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/1146001141844647937?s=210 -
If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/11458100755141304320 -
Have you ever been to Hartlepool?Alanbrooke said:
I doubt they will be any worse off. When youre at the bottom the there isnt anywhere else to go.TOPPING said:
People who have the least will be the losers. I am very lucky in that I am not one of those.Alanbrooke said:
For who ?TOPPING said:
Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would ha we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. r Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
0 -
So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:
https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/11459628900396359680 -
I'd be very surprised if there are 12 Labour MPs who would support Boris in a VONC.rottenborough said:If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/11458100755141304320 -
Shows how old fashioned Labour is. With 5G there is zero need for a last mile wired phone / broadband network.rottenborough said:So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:
https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/11459628900396359680 -
rottenborough said:
If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432
There is no way that any Labour MP would fail to support a VNOC. To fail to do so would end their careers.anothernick said:
I'd be very surprised if there are 12 Labour MPs who would support Boris in a VONC.rottenborough said:If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/11458100755141304320 -
Don't disagree but do you think Brexit will or will not exacerbate that?Alanbrooke said:chortle
irrespective of Brexit we are heading for the usual middle class misanthropy of minimum alcohol pricing.
It will hit the lower orders but leave the heavy dinking professionals untouched. we will then tie it all up with a big dose of hypocisy and tell the oiks its for their own good.
sugar taxto follow.0 -
Have you been there Rog ? The Redcar beach is a pleasent stroll south of the Tees. Nearby Loftus is a proper dump mind.Roger said:
Have you ever been to Hartlepool?Alanbrooke said:
I doubt they will be any worse off. When youre at the bottom the there isnt anywhere else to go.TOPPING said:
People who have the least will be the losers. I am very lucky in that I am not one of those.Alanbrooke said:
For who ?TOPPING said:
Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would ha we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. r Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.0 -
-
depends, if HMG wants to use Brexit as cover or use health and the NHS.TOPPING said:
Don't disagree but do you think Brexit will or will not exacerbate that?Alanbrooke said:chortle
irrespective of Brexit we are heading for the usual middle class misanthropy of minimum alcohol pricing.
It will hi its for their own good.
sugar taxto follow.
Since we dont know who will be in government or what their policies are it is all conjecture atm. Currently austreity has been proclaimed as dead so who is actually going to bash the voters ?0 -
Labour is bound to VONC any PM who went for no deal, and ATM I can't see how Johnson, or Hunt for that matter, could survive. They only have a majority of 2 or 3 and there are more than 2 or 3 Tories who would support a VONC if it was the only alternative to no deal. I think the DUP would probably find a way to avoid supporting the Tories in those circumstances as well.justin124 said:rottenborough said:If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432
There is no way that any Labour MP would fail to support a VNOC. To fail to do so would end their careers.anothernick said:
I'd be very surprised if there are 12 Labour MPs who would support Boris in a VONC.rottenborough said:If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/11458100755141304320 -
-
-
And they are going to afford this how?rottenborough said:So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:
https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/11459628900396359680 -
Have you and Yahoo Finance's headline writer and tweeter read it? Surely the real story is of divisions within Labour and not a months-old union motion about nationalisation that Corbyn doesn't want anyway.rottenborough said:So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:
https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/11459628900396359680 -
We had an almighty crash because our financial sector aped Wall Street in the size and spread and venal recklessness of its activities. The bonus culture was the root cause. It was a behavioural crisis more than anything.williamglenn said:No they haven’t. If we had gone into the Euro at that time it would have put much more scrutiny on Brown without getting a free pass from the ‘independent Bank of England’.
Would counting the beans in a different currency have made a material difference either way? No. Not unless it would have significantly impacted culture and behaviour in the City. Which I rather doubt.0 -
The Conservatives have found a magic money tree, in case you've not been following the leadership contest. The Chancellor is a bit miffed because no-one will tell him where it is.FrancisUrquhart said:
And they are going to afford this how?0 -
Who will the winners be outside the ranks of the disaster capitalists who provide so much of the financial backing to the posh boys currently telling us that No Deal will be fantastic, but all the EU's fault?Alanbrooke said:
For who ?TOPPING said:
Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables.
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
0 -
One of the whole points of Brexit was that we would no longer be able to blame anyone else for our problems. And, AS FUCKING EXPECTED (apols for shouting) it is precisely the opposite in that as you say, Brexit will be used as cover for any old crap that the govt of whichever flavour enacts.Alanbrooke said:
depends, if HMG wants to use Brexit as cover or use health and the NHS.TOPPING said:
Don't disagree but do you think Brexit will or will not exacerbate that?Alanbrooke said:chortle
irrespective of Brexit we are heading for the usual middle class misanthropy of minimum alcohol pricing.
It will hi its for their own good.
sugar taxto follow.
Since we dont know who will be in government or what their policies are it is all conjecture atm. Currently austreity has been proclaimed as dead so who is actually going to bash the voters ?0 -
So will backing a No Deal Brexit.justin124 said:rottenborough said:If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432
There is no way that any Labour MP would fail to support a VNOC. To fail to do so would end their careers.anothernick said:
I'd be very surprised if there are 12 Labour MPs who would support Boris in a VONC.rottenborough said:If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432
0 -
Weren't both candidates asked for £150,000 to pay for the hustings?williamglenn said:Is the Tory party funding this?
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/1146001141844647937?s=210 -
that depends on your criteria for voting.SouthamObserver said:
Who will the winners be outside the ranks of the disaster capitalists who provide so much of the financial backing to the posh boys currently telling us that No Deal will be fantastic, but all the EU's fault?Alanbrooke said:
For who ?TOPPING said:
Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent r own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say pres.
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
It isnt all about wallets.0 -
By issuing the share holders with bonds, rather than paying cash and market rate.FrancisUrquhart said:
And they are going to afford this how?rottenborough said:So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:
https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/11459628900396359680 -
of course, but seriously who believes politicans wont blame others for their problems ?TOPPING said:
One of the whole points of Brexit was that we would no longer be able to blame anyone else for our problems. And, AS FUCKING EXPECTED (apols for shouting) it is precisely the opposite in that as you say, Brexit will be used as cover for any old crap that the govt of whichever flavour enacts.Alanbrooke said:
depends, if HMG wants to use Brexit as cover or use health and the NHS.TOPPING said:
Don't disagree but do you think Brexit will or will not exacerbate that?Alanbrooke said:chortle
irrespective of Brexit we are heading for the usual middle class misanthropy of minimum alcohol pricing.
It will hi its for their own good.
sugar taxto follow.
Since we dont know who will be in government or what their policies are it is all conjecture atm. Currently austreity has been proclaimed as dead so who is actually going to bash the voters ?
the voters wont be blaming themselves so lets start there.0 -
That is what I would suspect. Which of course effects all of us with pension plans.rottenborough said:
By issuing the share holders with bonds, rather than paying cash and market rate.FrancisUrquhart said:
And they are going to afford this how?rottenborough said:So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:
https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/11459628900396359680 -
It's that Culloden thing again; maybe 'Culludin' is the Norn pronunciation.
https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1145979172180942848
Strange how a NI spa hotel and estate is named after a small village in the North of Scotland, is it as crudely simple as it being named after a great victory for the Union and the Protestant ascendancy?0 -
It's more like a Magic Money Orchard. Johnson in particular seems to be spaffing money up the wall with the attitude of careless abandon that he usually reserves for his more intimate activities.DecrepitJohnL said:
The Conservatives have found a magic money tree, in case you've not been following the leadership contest. The Chancellor is a bit miffed because no-one will tell him where it is.FrancisUrquhart said:
And they are going to afford this how?0 -
There will be one hell of legal fight.FrancisUrquhart said:
That is what I would suspect. Which of course effects all of us with pension plans.rottenborough said:
By issuing the share holders with bonds, rather than paying cash and market rate.FrancisUrquhart said:
And they are going to afford this how?rottenborough said:So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:
https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968
Labour would be very well advised to concentrate on one in first term, probably rail and not overreach.0 -
It seems like a long time ago when the pb.com tories were pushing DG as the latest crumpled middle aged white man who was a PM in waiting.Scott_P said:0 -
Gilts would be a much better bet than BT shares in your pension plan - the shares have fallen 50% in the past 3 years.FrancisUrquhart said:
That is what I would suspect. Which of course effects all of us with pension plans.rottenborough said:
By issuing the share holders with bonds, rather than paying cash and market rate.FrancisUrquhart said:
And they are going to afford this how?rottenborough said:So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:
https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968
0 -
Question for those who might know.
I see Johnson and Hunt are in Northern Ireland. I know that the Conservatives do field (some) candidates in NI from time to time, but is the party that big there? How many members of the Conservative & Unionist party are from Northern Ireland?
Or are they doing it because, you know, democracy?0 -
Rule 1.1 as amended...rottenborough said:If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced
0 -
True - Brexit voting pensioners who own their homes and a guaranteed income can look beyond their finances. And they’ll get blue passports.Alanbrooke said:
that depends on your criteria for voting.SouthamObserver said:
Who will the winners be outside the ranks of the disaster capitalists who provide so much of the financial backing to the posh boys currently telling us that No Deal will be fantastic, but all the EU's fault?Alanbrooke said:
For who ?TOPPING said:
Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent r own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say pres.
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
It isnt all about wallets.
0 -
On Topic: FWIW I voted for Ed yesterday, though I expect Jo to win. I'd be happy with either TBH. Both are quite similar in outlook and an improvement (from my perspective) on Tim Farron, and Vince to a certain extent.0
-
If I were running a large pension fund, I’d be absolutely sh!tting myself at the prospect of John McDonnell being anywhere near government.rottenborough said:So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:
https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/11459628900396359680 -
anothernick said:
Gilts would be a much better bet than BT shares in your pension plan - the shares have fallen 50% in the past 3 years.FrancisUrquhart said:
That is what I would suspect. Which of course effects all of us with pension plans.rottenborough said:
By issuing the share holders with bonds, rather than paying cash and market rate.FrancisUrquhart said:
And they are going to afford this how?rottenborough said:So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:
https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968 But think of the dividends. 0 -
err right, am I meant to hate them or something ? One day that will be you and I dont bear you any ill will either.SouthamObserver said:
True - Brexit voting pensioners who own their homes and a guaranteed income can look beyond their finances. And they’ll get blue passports.Alanbrooke said:
that depends on your criteria for voting.SouthamObserver said:
Who will the winners be outsidhe EU's fault?Alanbrooke said:
For who ?TOPPING said:
Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.Alanbrooke said:
I havent r own mind up.TOPPING said:
But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.Alanbrooke said:
Im afraid global economy.TOPPING said:
Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".Alanbrooke said:
we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good ideaTOPPING said:
That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.Alanbrooke said:
if we had gone in to the Euro at screwed.anothernick said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.Nigel_Foremain said:
William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.Scott_P said:
odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
"too many variables"
now youre using my argument when I say pres.
There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
It isnt all about wallets.1 -
+1 - they need to pick markets that aren't working - rail is the obvious example...rottenborough said:
There will be one hell of legal fight.FrancisUrquhart said:
That is what I would suspect. Which of course effects all of us with pension plans.rottenborough said:
By issuing the share holders with bonds, rather than paying cash and market rate.FrancisUrquhart said:
And they are going to afford this how?rottenborough said:So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:
https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968
Labour would be very well advised to concentrate on one in first term, probably rail and not overreach.
Telecoms is insane as technological change means fixed line communications aren't the future...0 -
Heart of the matter.Alanbrooke said:that depends on your criteria for voting.
It isnt all about wallets.
Brexit is not about money. It's about identity.
Hence its power. You will not talk people out of it with warnings about the economy. Even if the warnings are grim and believed it would not work.0 -
Betcha Kate Hoey would. And in extremis, all the pro-Leave Labours have to do is not turn up. They produce a Letter From Their Mum, not written by themselves in their left hand, honest, and pro-Leave Corbyn overlooks it. Everybody is happy...anothernick said:
I'd be very surprised if there are 12 Labour MPs who would support Boris in a VONC.rottenborough said:If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432 0 -
Not really.The small group of Brexiteers in the Labour ranks have been consistent in their views over the decades from the days when it was Labour policy to leave the EEC without a referendum. They deserve the same consideration shown to the 69 Pro-Marketeers who backed the Heath Government in Autumn 1971.SouthamObserver said:
So will backing a No Deal Brexit.justin124 said:rottenborough said:If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432
There is no way that any Labour MP would fail to support a VNOC. To fail to do so would end their careers.anothernick said:
I'd be very surprised if there are 12 Labour MPs who would support Boris in a VONC.rottenborough said:If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/11458100755141304320
This discussion has been closed.