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  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    No they haven’t. If we had gone into the Euro at that time it would have put much more scrutiny on Brown without getting a free pass from the ‘independent Bank of England’.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now.
    You only think that because you agree over Brexit

    I bet in 2001 you thought he was a moron and voted for Blair! :D
    Nope, I think you are possibly a moron because your political instinct/frame of reference can't recognise a Tory, just because I don't agree with the un-Conservative policy of Brexit. I have been a member for over 20 years, and an activist (though not now).

    I loathed Blair, his petty cool Britannia, his irritating style of speech, his persecution of people in the countryside, his use of the military to suck up to George W Bush and his general hypocrisy. In spite of all of this comparative awfulness he will be seen as a brilliant PM compared to Bozo. As a genuine Conservative (rather than the Johnny come lately variety) I find that regrettable.
    I find that genuinely surprising (given what you post on here) but good for you. :)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited July 2019
    Dura_Ace said:

    nico67 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Long Bailey now favourite for Labour leader.

    I’d rather have Corbyn . Are the Labour Party mad . Long Bailey is hopeless .
    RLB is a continuity Corbynite and hence a palatable choice to the current regime. It has to be a woman and Labour would be best served by Jess Rodham Philips but she has no chance.
    Phillips vs Stewart at PMQs is an exchange I'd watch.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,573

    Pulpstar said:

    Long Bailey now favourite for Labour leader.

    Interesting...
    Stiff competition in the 'Most Annoying Politician Handicap'. Laura Pidcock the clear favourite, but Rebecca Long Bailey, Mark Francois, Ian Blackford, Sammy Wilson, Steve Baker, Richard Burgon, Ian Lavery, Bill Cash all running strongly.

  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    nico67 said:

    So the DUP support no deal .

    They really are a disgrace .

    The DUP support no Brexit. The union comes first, and they know any form of Brexit is likely to boost the chances of a united Ireland. By demanding an end to the backstop, which they know cannot be delivered, they are merely ensuring that a deal cannot be agreed, and they know parliament will block no deal so, perforce, Brexit will not happen.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    edited July 2019
    nico67 said:

    So the DUP support no deal .

    They really are a disgrace .

    The DUP are doing more to deliver a united Ireland than Sinn Féin/IRA have ever done.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    There's a Quinnipiac poll out today, could shed more light - or more heat...

    In addition to the RCP polls there was a Rasmussen poll out showing Biden in the low 30s with the rest of the big 4 on 13. It wasn't quite a VI poll though so maybe that's why it isn't in the RCP average.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/biden_still_leads_among_democrats_but_support_is_down

    In a head to head this polo had Harris ahead of Biden
    There's a hole in your statement there.
    Very much suck it and see, at the moment.
    I'd forgotten about these

    https://marketingweek.com/1996/02/16/nestle-adds-holes-to-the-polo-range-2/
    The soggy middle ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Long Bailey now favourite for Labour leader.

    One of my happier candidates. I got on her on Betfair at 350.
    :D I'm hopeful of the Dawn Butler train pulling into 20ish for a tale like that yet.
    It’s going to be Diane Abbott.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    edited July 2019

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    I wasn't in favour of it at the time, but I suspect we would have found it very helpful for our economy, but as you say, we have no idea, except that it would have made Brexit even more damaging than it already will be
    It'd have made Brexit impossible. Even for Boris. See Salvini, Orban, Morawiecki
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    Look at Ireland and multiple it by 20.... Our housing market would have gone the same way as theirs did and would have blown up our banks far more than even 2008 did...
    We did have a housing boom that Gordon Brown was able to get away with ignoring because the monetary policy framework he set up allowed him to pretend there was no problem. Take away that fig leaf and he would have had to address it.

    In the counterfactual where Blair was tough enough to overrule Brown, he might not have remained as chancellor at all.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    No they haven’t. If we had gone into the Euro at that time it would have put much more scrutiny on Brown without getting a free pass from the ‘independent Bank of England’.
    Utterly deluded. How much scrutiny has there been on Italy and France?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,573

    nico67 said:

    So the DUP support no deal .

    They really are a disgrace .

    The DUP support no Brexit. The union comes first, and they know any form of Brexit is likely to boost the chances of a united Ireland. By demanding an end to the backstop, which they know cannot be delivered, they are merely ensuring that a deal cannot be agreed, and they know parliament will block no deal so, perforce, Brexit will not happen.
    100% correct. DUP is a Remain party and is acting without scruple. They are no friends of the Conservatives.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    You’re ignoring source of the triumphalism that came from the framework Brown created for us outside the Euro.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    No they haven’t. If we had gone into the Euro at that time it would have put much more scrutiny on Brown without getting a free pass from the ‘independent Bank of England’.
    Utterly deluded. How much scrutiny has there been on Italy and France?
    I’m talking about domestic political scrutiny, from the press and the opposition.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Long Bailey now favourite for Labour leader.

    One of my happier candidates. I got on her on Betfair at 350.
    :D I'm hopeful of the Dawn Butler train pulling into 20ish for a tale like that yet.
    It’s going to be Diane Abbott.
    "Someone else" is still the best bet in the labour leadership betting I think.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    "We want to be in Yoorup not run by Yoorup"
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    No they haven’t. If we had gone into the Euro at that time it would have put much more scrutiny on Brown without getting a free pass from the ‘independent Bank of England’.
    Utterly deluded. How much scrutiny has there been on Italy and France?
    I’m talking about domestic political scrutiny, from the press and the opposition.
    Even more deluded.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1145774857377984518

    Why? Why do his supporters not see this? Labour under an effective, combative leader like Brown or Smith would be taking this shower apart at the dispatch box every day.

    What difference would it make? Yes, you are right but these are not normal times and the Conservatives have decided to tear themselves apart even without forensic dissection by the leader of the opposition. Soon they will elect a new leader who has made contradictory and impossible pledges (as they both have) and who will face the same parliamentary arithmetic, or even worse, than Theresa May. And one of them has a backstory that is a gift to Labour's spin team.

    Ironically, a Smith, Blair or Brown might have made things easier for the blue team by uniting it in defence of Theresa May.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    nico67 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Long Bailey now favourite for Labour leader.

    I’d rather have Corbyn . Are the Labour Party mad . Long Bailey is hopeless .
    She's Shakespeare compared to Pidcock. But yes hopeless. Thornberry can speak English as can Dawn Butler.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    Mr. Voter, quite childish to turn their backs.

    Such is politics.

    Reminds me of the BNP et al turning their backs to Sadiq Khan in 2016.

    Started a meme that they were facing Mecca to pray.
    I don't know the orientation of the Strasbourg parliament, but perhaps the BXPers were turning to face Moscow?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    No they haven’t. If we had gone into the Euro at that time it would have put much more scrutiny on Brown without getting a free pass from the ‘independent Bank of England’.
    Utterly deluded. How much scrutiny has there been on Italy and France?
    I’m talking about domestic political scrutiny, from the press and the opposition.
    Even more deluded.
    Why? The Eurosceptic press would have been certain we were heading for disaster inside the Euro and would never have missed an opportunity to point out the economic risks of domestic policies in that context. Instead we had triumphalism because we were out of the Euro and the nice independent Bank of England said there was no problem with house price inflation.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Roger said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Roger said:

    It's difficult for non Tory politicians to get air time while the leadership campaign is going on. Does any Labour supporter think it advances their cause to use any space they do get with Laura Pidcock?

    Are they putting her on the TV more ? I bought £12 @ 51.25 and note she has shortened to 32/34.
    51.25 to be what? To keep her seat? She makes the Labour Party sound moronic.
    It is
    'Fraid so. Lucky BJ's Tories will be worse
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the Eurosceptic beast with his "save the pound" campaign and created the conditions which led to the election of IDS as Tory leader. He also urged Cameron to hold the referendum, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps our influence as a huge eurozone economy would have meant things turned out differently. Simply no way to know. It is also why it irritates when people say "XXX said we should join the Euro so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:

    The E=mc2 of Brexit is that the political cost of implementing any specific version of it is always greater than the political capital available to any government.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
    For who ?

    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:

    The E=mc2 of Brexit is that the political cost of implementing any specific version of it is always greater than the political capital available to any government.
    that applies to lots of things and still we move on.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Linking as a discussion point here, seems the Brexit parties main policy platform is basically declaring war on London :

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1145685654518599681
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:

    The E=mc2 of Brexit is that the political cost of implementing any specific version of it is always greater than the political capital available to any government.
    that applies to lots of things and still we move on.
    Yes, still we move on without them happening. Brexit can be added to the list.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Scott_P said:
    The fisherfolk all voted for self immolation.
    Why should my tax money bail out those fuckers?
    just wait until Mcdonnell gets his hand on your wallet
    If Brexit ushers in a Labour Government it's the wallets of well-off pensioners that are going to feel it most. Labour can completely afford to ignore that demographic. There is a certain poetic justice in that
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019



    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.

    Who might the winners be, other than tax evaders and Putin?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:

    The E=mc2 of Brexit is that the political cost of implementing any specific version of it is always greater than the political capital available to any government.
    that applies to lots of things and still we move on.
    Yes, still we move on without them happening. Brexit can be added to the list.
    ho hum mild trolling
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    I think stodge makes an important point about the lds and coalition and not perpetuating paralysis, though I think he underestimates the trouble they could get in. The lds would prefer not to have to even deal with anyone else, in a way an extreme view as a rejection of compromise, because they get punished for doing so. But it will probably be unavoidable. What the members do this time as they cut deals will be interesting.

    Brexit make coalition with the Tories impossible, Corbyn makes coalition with Labour impossible. Corbyn and his clique are easier to change. Either way, lessons have been learnt from the previous Westminster Coalition. Worth noting that in devolved parliaments and local government, working with other parties is unremarkable. Why should Westminster be different? We do not need to restrict ourselves to the two seatbelts on offer.
    The LibDems are irrelevant at Westminster because they have only a handful of MPs. They are the fifth party (with the DUP's C&S agreement putting them a nose ahead).

    As the third party, LibDems would be on almost every news and current affairs programme for balance. Now they are not.

    Nick Clegg's disastrous coalition agreement, where he prostituted the party's programme and principles for an AV referendum which he promptly lost, was one nail in the LibDems' coffin but the other is the rise of the SNP, who have five times as many MPs. That is the reality and worrying about yellow dresses and reaching out to other parties misses the point that until there is a recovery, they will remain irrelevant.

    What they need is another Chat Show Charlie, and they ain't got one.
    Times they are a changing...

    LDs are likely to be the third party in Westminster after the next election.
    What odds will you give me for the LD on less than 50 seats (allowing margin of error for SNP)?
    1/3

    While 50 is a reasonable target, 30 -40 is more realistic.
    20 - 25 more likely.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    OllyT said:

    Scott_P said:
    The fisherfolk all voted for self immolation.
    Why should my tax money bail out those fuckers?
    just wait until Mcdonnell gets his hand on your wallet
    If Brexit ushers in a Labour Government it's the wallets of well-off pensioners that are going to feel it most. Labour can completely afford to ignore that demographic. There is a certain poetic justice in that
    arent they all supposed to be dead by now ?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Mango said:



    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.

    Who might the winners be, other than tax evaders and Putin?
    theyre both winners atm and we havent left yet.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
    For who ?

    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
    People who have the least will be the losers. I am very lucky in that I am not one of those.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    If only Barry Gardiner was a woman.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I don't know the orientation of the Strasbourg parliament, but perhaps the BXPers were turning to face Moscow?

    https://twitter.com/carlgardner/status/1145999424763703296
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Pulpstar said:

    Linking as a discussion point here, seems the Brexit parties main policy platform is basically declaring war on London :

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1145685654518599681

    So they will be fighting on two fronts - the RoI and London. Shades of 1914 here.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
    For who ?

    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
    Only if he's a blue passport manufacturers or a chicken who wants to be freshened up in chlorine
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would ha we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
    For who ?

    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
    People who have the least will be the losers. I am very lucky in that I am not one of those.
    I doubt they will be any worse off. When youre at the bottom the there isnt anywhere else to go. More likely it will be tax hikes on the better off and a clampdown on coporate avoidance.

  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,084
    Pulpstar said:

    Linking as a discussion point here, seems the Brexit parties main policy platform is basically declaring war on London :

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1145685654518599681

    Barbour and a suit and tie is hardly the image of modern Britain. Its not just London, but anyone under the age of 55 I think...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Roger said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certaintie your own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
    For who ?

    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
    Only if he's a blue passport manufacturers or a chicken who wants to be freshened up in chlorine
    oh dear Roger the ideas factory is looking a bit stale

    try some snappier lines
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    Pulpstar said:

    Long Bailey now favourite for Labour leader.

    One of my happier candidates. I got on her on Betfair at 350.
    Long Odds on Short Trousers!

    I suppose given a field of RLB, Pidcock and Cat Smith, we have a rightful favourite.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Linking as a discussion point here, seems the Brexit parties main policy platform is basically declaring war on London :

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1145685654518599681

    So they will be fighting on two fronts - the RoI and London. Shades of 1914 here.
    It annoys me no end when opponents call HS2 a vanity project.

    Whose vanity? UK plc? Osborne? Cameron? Neither of these two is in Parliament and is not likely to be in 2028 when it opens. Clegg - same. The current PM or next PM? No - same - wont be in power by then.

    So no one who was in power when HS2 was being guided through Commons will be around to cut the tape.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    When youre at the bottom the there isnt anywhere else to go.

    Remarkably naive from someone with a self-image of studied worldliness.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if weould have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would ha we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted"
    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
    For who ?

    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
    People who have the least will be the losers. I am very lucky in that I am not one of those.
    I doubt they will be any worse off. When youre at the bottom the there isnt anywhere else to go. More likely it will be tax hikes on the better off and a clampdown on coporate avoidance.

    We shall see. It will be the equivalent of an extra 10p on beer and fags. But I doubt many will notice. Doesn't mean they will not be worse off.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Pulpstar said:

    Long Bailey now favourite for Labour leader.

    One of my happier candidates. I got on her on Betfair at 350.
    Long Odds on Short Trousers!

    I suppose given a field of RLB, Pidcock and Cat Smith, we have a rightful favourite.
    RLB is highly rated by McDonnell, who is a sharp operator.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019



    RLB is highly rated by McDonnell, who is a sharp operator.

    I thought that was because she ticked his boxes of 1. Woman; 2. Easy to control
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if weould have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would ha we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted"
    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid e global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certainties, ther own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
    For who ?

    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
    People who have the least will be the losers. I am very lucky in that I am not one of those.
    I doubt they will be any avoidance.

    We shall see. It will be the equivalent of an extra 10p on beer and fags. But I doubt many will notice. Doesn't mean they will not be worse off.
    chortle

    irrespective of Brexit we are heading for the usual middle class misanthropy of minimum alcohol pricing.

    It will hit the lower orders but leave the heavy dinking professionals untouched. we will then tie it all up with a big dose of hypocisy and tell the oiks its for their own good.

    sugar taxto follow.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Borough, that could just means she might be malleable.

    People can back others for weird reasons. We need only look at those who are backing Boris on the basis he's duplicitous.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    that's a funny tweet
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would ha we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
    For who ?

    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
    People who have the least will be the losers. I am very lucky in that I am not one of those.
    I doubt they will be any worse off. When youre at the bottom the there isnt anywhere else to go.

    Have you ever been to Hartlepool?

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:

    https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432

    I'd be very surprised if there are 12 Labour MPs who would support Boris in a VONC.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:

    https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968

    Shows how old fashioned Labour is. With 5G there is zero need for a last mile wired phone / broadband network.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited July 2019

    If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432

    If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432

    I'd be very surprised if there are 12 Labour MPs who would support Boris in a VONC.
    There is no way that any Labour MP would fail to support a VNOC. To fail to do so would end their careers.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    chortle

    irrespective of Brexit we are heading for the usual middle class misanthropy of minimum alcohol pricing.

    It will hit the lower orders but leave the heavy dinking professionals untouched. we will then tie it all up with a big dose of hypocisy and tell the oiks its for their own good.

    sugar taxto follow.

    Don't disagree but do you think Brexit will or will not exacerbate that?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Roger said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would ha we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid memories are fading. In the noughties it was full on expansion, no more boom and bust, Risk had been killed by the quants, roll on the global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
    For who ?

    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.
    People who have the least will be the losers. I am very lucky in that I am not one of those.
    I doubt they will be any worse off. When youre at the bottom the there isnt anywhere else to go.

    Have you ever been to Hartlepool?

    Have you been there Rog ? The Redcar beach is a pleasent stroll south of the Tees. Nearby Loftus is a proper dump mind.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    edited July 2019
    TOPPING said:

    chortle

    irrespective of Brexit we are heading for the usual middle class misanthropy of minimum alcohol pricing.

    It will hi its for their own good.

    sugar taxto follow.

    Don't disagree but do you think Brexit will or will not exacerbate that?
    depends, if HMG wants to use Brexit as cover or use health and the NHS.

    Since we dont know who will be in government or what their policies are it is all conjecture atm. Currently austreity has been proclaimed as dead so who is actually going to bash the voters ?
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    justin124 said:

    If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432

    If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432

    I'd be very surprised if there are 12 Labour MPs who would support Boris in a VONC.
    There is no way that any Labour MP would fail to support a VNOC. To fail to do so would end their careers.
    Labour is bound to VONC any PM who went for no deal, and ATM I can't see how Johnson, or Hunt for that matter, could survive. They only have a majority of 2 or 3 and there are more than 2 or 3 Tories who would support a VONC if it was the only alternative to no deal. I think the DUP would probably find a way to avoid supporting the Tories in those circumstances as well.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133

    So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:

    https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968

    And they are going to afford this how?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:

    https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968

    Have you and Yahoo Finance's headline writer and tweeter read it? Surely the real story is of divisions within Labour and not a months-old union motion about nationalisation that Corbyn doesn't want anyway.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    No they haven’t. If we had gone into the Euro at that time it would have put much more scrutiny on Brown without getting a free pass from the ‘independent Bank of England’.

    We had an almighty crash because our financial sector aped Wall Street in the size and spread and venal recklessness of its activities. The bonus culture was the root cause. It was a behavioural crisis more than anything.

    Would counting the beans in a different currency have made a material difference either way? No. Not unless it would have significantly impacted culture and behaviour in the City. Which I rather doubt.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited July 2019


    And they are going to afford this how?

    The Conservatives have found a magic money tree, in case you've not been following the leadership contest. The Chancellor is a bit miffed because no-one will tell him where it is.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at that time subsequent events have shown we would have been irredeemably screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent invested them with any certainties, there are none in a counterfactual. But you can look at the balance of probabilities and make your own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say predicting the Brexit impact is for mugs. There is no certainty there either - too many variables. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
    For who ?

    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.

    Who will the winners be outside the ranks of the disaster capitalists who provide so much of the financial backing to the posh boys currently telling us that No Deal will be fantastic, but all the EU's fault?

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    chortle

    irrespective of Brexit we are heading for the usual middle class misanthropy of minimum alcohol pricing.

    It will hi its for their own good.

    sugar taxto follow.

    Don't disagree but do you think Brexit will or will not exacerbate that?
    depends, if HMG wants to use Brexit as cover or use health and the NHS.

    Since we dont know who will be in government or what their policies are it is all conjecture atm. Currently austreity has been proclaimed as dead so who is actually going to bash the voters ?
    One of the whole points of Brexit was that we would no longer be able to blame anyone else for our problems. And, AS FUCKING EXPECTED (apols for shouting) it is precisely the opposite in that as you say, Brexit will be used as cover for any old crap that the govt of whichever flavour enacts.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    justin124 said:

    If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432

    If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432

    I'd be very surprised if there are 12 Labour MPs who would support Boris in a VONC.
    There is no way that any Labour MP would fail to support a VNOC. To fail to do so would end their careers.

    So will backing a No Deal Brexit.

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Weren't both candidates asked for £150,000 to pay for the hustings?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent r own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say pres. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
    For who ?

    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.

    Who will the winners be outside the ranks of the disaster capitalists who provide so much of the financial backing to the posh boys currently telling us that No Deal will be fantastic, but all the EU's fault?

    that depends on your criteria for voting.

    It isnt all about wallets.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:

    https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968

    And they are going to afford this how?
    By issuing the share holders with bonds, rather than paying cash and market rate.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    edited July 2019
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    chortle

    irrespective of Brexit we are heading for the usual middle class misanthropy of minimum alcohol pricing.

    It will hi its for their own good.

    sugar taxto follow.

    Don't disagree but do you think Brexit will or will not exacerbate that?
    depends, if HMG wants to use Brexit as cover or use health and the NHS.

    Since we dont know who will be in government or what their policies are it is all conjecture atm. Currently austreity has been proclaimed as dead so who is actually going to bash the voters ?
    One of the whole points of Brexit was that we would no longer be able to blame anyone else for our problems. And, AS FUCKING EXPECTED (apols for shouting) it is precisely the opposite in that as you say, Brexit will be used as cover for any old crap that the govt of whichever flavour enacts.
    of course, but seriously who believes politicans wont blame others for their problems ?

    the voters wont be blaming themselves so lets start there.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited July 2019

    So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:

    https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968

    And they are going to afford this how?
    By issuing the share holders with bonds, rather than paying cash and market rate.
    That is what I would suspect. Which of course effects all of us with pension plans.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    edited July 2019
    It's that Culloden thing again; maybe 'Culludin' is the Norn pronunciation.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1145979172180942848

    Strange how a NI spa hotel and estate is named after a small village in the North of Scotland, is it as crudely simple as it being named after a great victory for the Union and the Protestant ascendancy?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798


    And they are going to afford this how?

    The Conservatives have found a magic money tree, in case you've not been following the leadership contest. The Chancellor is a bit miffed because no-one will tell him where it is.
    It's more like a Magic Money Orchard. Johnson in particular seems to be spaffing money up the wall with the attitude of careless abandon that he usually reserves for his more intimate activities.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:

    https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968

    And they are going to afford this how?
    By issuing the share holders with bonds, rather than paying cash and market rate.
    That is what I would suspect. Which of course effects all of us with pension plans.
    There will be one hell of legal fight.

    Labour would be very well advised to concentrate on one in first term, probably rail and not overreach.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Scott_P said:
    It seems like a long time ago when the pb.com tories were pushing DG as the latest crumpled middle aged white man who was a PM in waiting.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:

    https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968

    And they are going to afford this how?
    By issuing the share holders with bonds, rather than paying cash and market rate.
    That is what I would suspect. Which of course effects all of us with pension plans.
    Gilts would be a much better bet than BT shares in your pension plan - the shares have fallen 50% in the past 3 years.

  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    Question for those who might know.

    I see Johnson and Hunt are in Northern Ireland. I know that the Conservatives do field (some) candidates in NI from time to time, but is the party that big there? How many members of the Conservative & Unionist party are from Northern Ireland?

    Or are they doing it because, you know, democracy?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced

    Rule 1.1 as amended... :(

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent r own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say pres. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
    For who ?

    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.

    Who will the winners be outside the ranks of the disaster capitalists who provide so much of the financial backing to the posh boys currently telling us that No Deal will be fantastic, but all the EU's fault?

    that depends on your criteria for voting.

    It isnt all about wallets.

    True - Brexit voting pensioners who own their homes and a guaranteed income can look beyond their finances. And they’ll get blue passports.

  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    On Topic: FWIW I voted for Ed yesterday, though I expect Jo to win. I'd be happy with either TBH. Both are quite similar in outlook and an improvement (from my perspective) on Tim Farron, and Vince to a certain extent.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:

    https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968

    If I were running a large pension fund, I’d be absolutely sh!tting myself at the prospect of John McDonnell being anywhere near government.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:

    https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968

    And they are going to afford this how?
    By issuing the share holders with bonds, rather than paying cash and market rate.
    That is what I would suspect. Which of course effects all of us with pension plans.
    Gilts would be a much better bet than BT shares in your pension plan - the shares have fallen 50% in the past 3 years.

    :lol: But think of the dividends.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    William Hague. One of the most underrated men in British politics. He now looks a complete colossus compared to the idiots on offer now. There was a time when the Tory faithful would have taken heed of his warnings, but now, who knows? The entryists will no doubt claim he is not a proper Tory.
    Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Hague fed the, according to Tim Shipman's book.
    if we had gone in to the Euro at screwed.
    That's a counter factual too far, Alan. We have no idea what would have happened if we'd gone in to the Euro.
    we have no certainty what would have happened but looking at free wheeling anglo saxon economy Ireland I think we have a good idea

    odds are we would have bust the Euro or ourselves.
    Perhaps. Or perhaps so therefore can't be trusted".

    No one knows what would have happened if we'd joined the euro.
    Im afraid global economy.

    Those saying otherwise were branded eejits who didnt understand the "New Economy".
    But that would all have changed once Elvis had been installed as CotE and Lord Lucan Foreign Secretary.

    Counterfactuals are fun but to invest them with HYUFD-like certainties is just barmy.
    I havent r own mind up.
    Too many variables. The binomial tree would look like crazy paving. Still, it is a lot of fun.
    lol

    "too many variables"

    now youre using my argument when I say pres. :smiley:
    Predicting Brexit is easy peasy. It is and will be a shitshow.
    For who ?

    There will be winners and losers.Maybe youre just grumpy because you think youll be a loser.

    Who will the winners be outsidhe EU's fault?

    that depends on your criteria for voting.

    It isnt all about wallets.

    True - Brexit voting pensioners who own their homes and a guaranteed income can look beyond their finances. And they’ll get blue passports.

    err right, am I meant to hate them or something ? One day that will be you and I dont bear you any ill will either.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited July 2019

    So, it begins. More and more stuff to be nationalised:

    https://twitter.com/BenGartside/status/1145962890039635968

    And they are going to afford this how?
    By issuing the share holders with bonds, rather than paying cash and market rate.
    That is what I would suspect. Which of course effects all of us with pension plans.
    There will be one hell of legal fight.

    Labour would be very well advised to concentrate on one in first term, probably rail and not overreach.
    +1 - they need to pick markets that aren't working - rail is the obvious example...

    Telecoms is insane as technological change means fixed line communications aren't the future...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    that depends on your criteria for voting.

    It isnt all about wallets.

    Heart of the matter.

    Brexit is not about money. It's about identity.

    Hence its power. You will not talk people out of it with warnings about the economy. Even if the warnings are grim and believed it would not work.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    If this is the case, don't Tory rebels need to No Confidence Boris the minute his win is announced?

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1145810075514130432

    I'd be very surprised if there are 12 Labour MPs who would support Boris in a VONC.
    Betcha Kate Hoey would. And in extremis, all the pro-Leave Labours have to do is not turn up. They produce a Letter From Their Mum, not written by themselves in their left hand, honest, and pro-Leave Corbyn overlooks it. Everybody is happy... :(
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Cicero said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Linking as a discussion point here, seems the Brexit parties main policy platform is basically declaring war on London :

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1145685654518599681

    Barbour and a suit and tie is hardly the image of modern Britain. Its not just London, but anyone under the age of 55 I think...
    I'm sure there are a series of tattoos beneath the clothes.
This discussion has been closed.