politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Harris and Warrnen now dominate the WH2020 Democratic betting
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Hague backed Remain so no big surprise, IDS has backed BorisScott_P said:0 -
I don't really care about the paper. I rarely read it. I might pick it up from time to time on a train. Generally if I read a paper I do want news and interesting articles. But the ES is one for skimming rather than reading.NickPalmer said:
Not sure what I think about the issue, but do people like the Standard periodically dumping all news coverage onto page 7 onwards and devoting the first part of the paper entirely to a new campaign idea? I can't really complain as it's free, but I mainly get newspapers to read news - if I want their opinion on something I'll read the editorial or buy a magazine.Cyclefree said:
I wasn't referring to your joke. But to the ES story which might have been better journalism if it had referred to the NHS decision.0 -
This. This is the debate the Dems are having. Biden or Warren or Harris. Who is better against Trump? Play it safe with the ole veep or throw the dice on a more left wing ticket.HYUFD said:
California as a whole is not left liberal, San Francisco and the Bay area is, even McGovern won there, southern California though is in parts quite conservativeNigelb said:
California voted for Nixon, Bush and Reagan.HYUFD said:
Delaware voted for Nixon in 1972 and Bush Snr in 1988, Massachusetts voted for McGovern and DukakisFoxy said:
Biden is Senator for the left liberal state of Delaware is he not?HYUFD said:
Elizabeth Warren is a Senator from Massachusetts, about the most left liberal state in the US and is pitching to the cultural and economic left.williamglenn said:
Elizabeth Warren is from Oklahoma and is pitching for the swing middle class voters needed to win in 2020. Biden is a serial loser for a reason and I think Trump would get the better of him too.HYUFD said:
If it is Warren v Harris Trump will be laughing all the way to re election, he probably wins the popular vote against either as well as likely increasing his Electoral College margin.kinabalu said:Warren vs Kamala in debate will be very interesting. Looking forward to that. If the Dem race boils down to these two I will be happy and relaxed. Trump is toast against either but IMO marginally more crisp and burnt if the junior senator from California gets the nod. The fact that she is my main bet has absolutely nothing to do with this assessment. It is 100% objective based on the evidence of my eyes and ears.
If the Democrats really think two liberal coastal elitists stand a better chance of beating Trump in the Electoral College than a charismatic centrist from rustbelt Pennsylvania like Joe Biden then they deserve to lose in 2020
Biden won 2 presidential elections with Obama and was re elected as Senator from Delaware in the 1980s even when Reagan and Bush Snr won the state
I know who I think can pull in the six packers in PA who deserted Obama for Trump.0 -
While the flag lost its official status following 1 July 1997 transfer of sovereignty over Hong Kong, it resurfaced in the 2010s as a symbol of protest against Chinese rule in Hong Kong and Hong Kong independence.Benpointer said:
Well, I've not seen it in footage I've watched - if you want to post a link I'm prepared to be persuaded I'm wrong.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Total nonsense. You probably believe Trump is a Russian plant too.Benpointer said:
It's odds-on the flag was planted there by the Chinese authorities to discredit the protestors.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?Gallowgate said:
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?Gallowgate said:
You’re a parody.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.EPG said:One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
Examine footage from the protests and it has been seen time and time again in the crowds. Even before the protests, it appears every year at a march over the whole issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Hong_Kong_(1959–1997)
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MA was much more Irish Catholic than DE, but now both are dominated by the big-city knowledge worker type votes of Boston and Philadelphia, so DE has started to vote more like MA, not entirely, but enough to make it the difference harder to see. CA is a different kettle of fish. The ethnic mix of adult citizens has totally changed since the 1980s. So it is more totally incomparable to the way it used to be in the 1980s. And of course, CA voters in the 1980s could see it coming, and (over-)reacted in their Anglo Republican-ness.0
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It’s Warren.rottenborough said:
I know who I think can pull in the six packers in PA who deserted Obama for Trump.0 -
Topping up on Biden at 6.8.
One debate. Still streets ahead in every single poll I can see. Even Harris's home state.0 -
According to the people in our HK office the old colonial flag does not get brought out because anyone wants the British back. It’s done because it really winds-up the Chinese government.3
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Who ensures a Trump popular vote and electoral college win, she is John Kerry in a skirtwilliamglenn said:
It’s Warren.rottenborough said:
I know who I think can pull in the six packers in PA who deserted Obama for Trump.1 -
Poor old Matt Hancock! All that fawning and he's only got half the chance of making the cutScott_P said:
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Just don't see it myself. She's impressive and is a definite top three or four contender. But out in real america?williamglenn said:
It’s Warren.rottenborough said:
I know who I think can pull in the six packers in PA who deserted Obama for Trump.0 -
In terms of the drug laws and their effectiveness, they work well in Portugual, Amsterdam and Colorado, and they also work well in Singapore, Dubai and Thailand.Cyclefree said:
I know I am a minority on here on this (at least based on the last time this topic was debated). But given the harm it does to the young, especially, and knowing from personal experience what psychosis can do to a person, I am not really persuaded that legalisation is some sort of cost free relaxation which no-one can really object to.CatMan said:
No one is saying Cannabis is harmless, but Alcohol isn't harmless either but we accept that most people use it sensibly so it remains legal, despite all the problems it causes.Cyclefree said:
Perhaps that story should have been read in conjunction with this one - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-opens-its-first-clinic-to-treat-cannabis-psychosis-85pw6xpmp
Mental health has become a fashionable cause these days. Hardly a day passes without advice about how to notice it, how to care for it, how to ensure that we don't stress our children, our colleagues, our employees, our students because mental health is important. And yet at the same time we (some of us) seem relaxed about the idea of allowing a product which does cause serious mental health issues to be sold legally to the very same young people whose mental health we worry about.
It does not really compute for me. It strikes me that the level of thinking is (1) the drugs laws aren't working; (2) therefore let's legalise (without noticing that (2) does not necessarily follow from (1)); and (3) since that is what people want to do let's ignore any evidence suggesting that this might not be a good idea for some.
Meanwhile somewhere else in government someone will be talking about how we must look after the mental health of our young people without wondering whether the existing problems with cannabis use might get worse rather than better if it's legalised.
Doubtless we do need a more rational approach to drugs but a bit of joined up thinking on the topic would be good.
They emphatically don’t work in most of Europe and the US - we have literally hundreds of deaths a year in London alone, not related to the drugs themselves but within the gangs of young people who are seeking to control the illegal market. The mushy middle way of most Western states has been proven not to work over a period of decades, with organised criminals very much in control of the trade.
Personally I’d go down the libertarian route, treat most drugs like we treat alcohol and cigarettes, with controlled sales and taxes funding treatment for addiction. The authoritarian route is much more expensive and probably too difficult to implement in practice in a comparatively liberal state.1 -
Decriminalisation to a civil offence, with fines that are waived if engaged in treatment similar to speeding awareness courses is as far as I would go.Cyclefree said:
I know I am a minority on here on this (at least based on the last time this topic was debated). But given the harm it does to the young, especially, and knowing from personal experience what psychosis can do to a person, I am not really persuaded that legalisation is some sort of cost free relaxation which no-one can really object to.CatMan said:
No one is saying Cannabis is harmless, but Alcohol isn't harmless either but we accept that most people use it sensibly so it remains legal, despite all the problems it causes.Cyclefree said:
Perhaps that story should have been read in conjunction with this one - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-opens-its-first-clinic-to-treat-cannabis-psychosis-85pw6xpmp
Mental health has become a fashionable cause these days. Hardly a day passes without advice about how to notice it, how to care for it, how to ensure that we don't stress our children, our colleagues, our employees, our students because mental health is important. And yet at the same time we (some of us) seem relaxed about the idea of allowing a product which does cause serious mental health issues to be sold legally to the very same young people whose mental health we worry about.
It does not really compute for me. It strikes me that the level of thinking is (1) the drugs laws aren't working; (2) therefore let's legalise (without noticing that (2) does not necessarily follow from (1)); and (3) since that is what people want to do let's ignore any evidence suggesting that this might not be a good idea for some.
Meanwhile somewhere else in government someone will be talking about how we must look after the mental health of our young people without wondering whether the existing problems with cannabis use might get worse rather than better if it's legalised.
Doubtless we do need a more rational approach to drugs but a bit of joined up thinking on the topic would be good.
I think criminalising is the wrong approach, but I agree that these are dangerous drugs. I speak not just from professional experience, but also from seeing schoolfriends destroy their own lives and those of their families. A good friend of mine had her husband admitted in a catatonic state with a cannabis paranoid psychosis. She nursed him back to health, and when he had recovered, gave him an ultimatum. The cannabis or the family. He chose cannabis. Despite her efforts one of her sons is now a teenage dopehead. Very sad to see another one gone in the same family.0 -
To be fair, Hunt has gone full mendacious loon today, so it’s not just Johnson anymore. The Tories have left earth on their unicorns and are full steam ahead to Planet Magic Money Tree. It’s going to be one hell of a crash landing.Scott_P said:
Hague is not a total fucking idiot so no big surprise, IDS has backed BorisHYUFD said:Hague backed Remain so no big surprise, IDS has backed Boris
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To be fervently anti-tobacco smoking and at the same time strongly in favour of cannabis smoking seems a very strange set of opinions to hold IMO, a bit like the Victorians who banned cockfighting while continuing to engage in fox-hunting.0
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I seem to be unusual in thinking Hillary Clinton a decent candidate last time. She lost, of course, but so did all Trump's Republican rivals. Clinton did win the popular vote and was unlucky not to win the presidency.rottenborough said:If it is Harris or Warren then I think the Dems will lose, unless they tie up the nomination and then tack to the centre ground as fast as they can, before most voters notice.
End of private med insurance etc etc. Trump will be jumping around the room in anticipation.
The point is, a Clinton equivalent probably would win against Trump who appears on current polling to have lost the wafer thin margin he had last time.
The Democrats may be drawing the wrong conclusions from 2016.0 -
Delaware voted Hillary 53% Trump 42% in 2016 and Trump won 2/3 of its counties, Massachussetts voted Hillary 60% Trump 33% and Hillary won every one of its counties so Massachussetts is still more left liberal than Delaware which is more moderate.EPG said:MA was much more Irish Catholic than DE, but now both are dominated by the big-city knowledge worker type votes of Boston and Philadelphia, so DE has started to vote more like MA, not entirely, but enough to make it the difference harder to see. CA is a different kettle of fish. The ethnic mix of adult citizens has totally changed since the 1980s. So it is more totally incomparable to the way it used to be in the 1980s. And of course, CA voters in the 1980s could see it coming, and (over-)reacted in their Anglo Republican-ness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_in_Delaware
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_in_Massachusetts
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Just checking, who's 'we' in this scenario?HYUFD said:
Perhaps we could swap Scotland for Hong Kong?Viceroy_of_Orange said:Powerful image.
https://twitter.com/WilliamsJon/status/11457127246237450250 -
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Realistically we can defend Gibraltar v Spain or the Falklands v Argentina but we can only defend Hong Kong v China with US support, we are not in China's league militarily or economically, only the US isViceroy_of_Orange said:
I agree that our treatment of HK was disgraceful.viewcode said:
The problem is not the HK ensign. The problem is talking hard and doing fuck all. If we were commited to securing the freedom of the people of Hong Kong we could have chosen to stay there (the expiring part of the lease didn't cover the island) or allow the inhabitants to have passports that allowed them to settle in the UK. Given that neither of these things were done and our present shower of shit in Westminster and Whitehall aren't going to allow a mass immigration of millions of people, then all the UK is going to do is fail and blame, a mode of action it is becoming all too comfortable with.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?Gallowgate said:
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?Gallowgate said:
You’re a parody.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.EPG said:One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
Our pathetic leaders are willing to send troops and planes to Syria and Libya, areas where we have absolutely no business, but fold over like cheap deckchairs in the face of China. Gutless fools.0 -
Re: Mental Health
Does anyone have any tips for getting out of a de facto CTO where our glorious NHS are really quite insistent (with the back up of lets say various forms of the state) on injecting me with 75mg of [confidential] every month.0 -
Hague is a major intervention. Just as ballots arrive through letter boxes.0
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Never going to happen. Why unnecessarily upset a dozen of your most senior and self-important colleagues when your majority is minus ten?Scott_P said:0 -
Agreedrottenborough said:
This. This is the debate the Dems are having. Biden or Warren or Harris. Who is better against Trump? Play it safe with the ole veep or throw the dice on a more left wing ticket.HYUFD said:
California as a whole is not left liberal, San Francisco and the Bay area is, even McGovern won there, southern California though is in parts quite conservativeNigelb said:
California voted for Nixon, Bush and Reagan.HYUFD said:
Delaware voted for Nixon in 1972 and Bush Snr in 1988, Massachusetts voted for McGovern and DukakisFoxy said:
Biden is Senator for the left liberal state of Delaware is he not?HYUFD said:
Elizabeth Warren is a Senator from Massachusetts, about the most left liberal state in the US and is pitching to the cultural and economic left.williamglenn said:
Elizabeth Warren is from Oklahoma and is pitching for the swing middle class voters needed to win in 2020. Biden is a serial loser for a reason and I think Trump would get the better of him too.HYUFD said:
If it is Warren v Harris Trump will be laughing all the way to re election, he probably wins the popular vote against either as well as likely increasing his Electoral College margin.kinabalu said:Warren vs Kamala in debate will be very interesting. Looking forward to that. If the Dem race boils down to these two I will be happy and relaxed. Trump is toast against either but IMO marginally more crisp and burnt if the junior senator from California gets the nod. The fact that she is my main bet has absolutely nothing to do with this assessment. It is 100% objective based on the evidence of my eyes and ears.
If the Democrats really think two liberal coastal elitists stand a better chance of beating Trump in the Electoral College than a charismatic centrist from rustbelt Pennsylvania like Joe Biden then they deserve to lose in 2020
Biden won 2 presidential elections with Obama and was re elected as Senator from Delaware in the 1980s even when Reagan and Bush Snr won the state
I know who I think can pull in the six packers in PA who deserted Obama for Trump.0 -
https://www.rethink.org/advice-and-information/rights-restrictions/mental-health-laws/community-treatment-orders/JBriskinindyref2 said:Re: Mental Health
Does anyone have any tips for getting out of a de facto CTO where our glorious NHS are really quite insistent (with the back up of lets say various forms of the state) on injecting me with 75mg of [confidential] every month.0 -
Or that he can’t find enough people willing to serve...kle4 said:
Stories like that just make me think 'how would I know what the right sized Cabinet is anyway?'. Is it too large at the moment? Not large enough? I'd have no idea.Scott_P said:
Allows him to show he is prepared to tackle waste even as it applies to government offices, and that he is not concerned about handing out lots of prize places to get votes though.0 -
Most people who use alcohol don't develop mental health problems.CatMan said:
No one is saying Cannabis is harmless, but Alcohol isn't harmless either but we accept that most people use it sensibly so it remains legal, despite all the problems it causes.Cyclefree said:
Perhaps that story should have been read in conjunction with this one - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-opens-its-first-clinic-to-treat-cannabis-psychosis-85pw6xpmp0 -
I find that impossible to believe. Enough people would be willing to serve anyone. Whether he really follows through or not, I find it more likely this is a position to indicate he is not trying to buy support in parliament.Charles said:
Or that he can’t find enough people willing to serve...kle4 said:
Stories like that just make me think 'how would I know what the right sized Cabinet is anyway?'. Is it too large at the moment? Not large enough? I'd have no idea.Scott_P said:
Allows him to show he is prepared to tackle waste even as it applies to government offices, and that he is not concerned about handing out lots of prize places to get votes though.0 -
Boris team have lost the plot. They either know they are seriously not home and dry and are now throwing everything at the wall, or, they are out of control and just throwing out populist crap to get a headline for no purpose.AlastairMeeks said:
Never going to happen. Why unnecessarily upset a dozen of your most senior and self-important colleagues when your majority is minus ten?Scott_P said:
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IDS is more popular with the members, is he not? HYUFD may be overly harsh on former remainers being permitted to say they now back Brexit, but he probably picks up on the mood of the members well enough.rottenborough said:Hague is a major intervention. Just as ballots arrive through letter boxes.
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Neither MA nor DE is moderate any more. Counties don't matter because some of them are tiny in the USA - what matters is whether DE would vote Republican in a normal year when its vote might count. It would not. It has too many east-coast urbanites, a bloc that has recently (30y) become strongly Democrat basically in reaction to the religious/culture wars and the lower tax policies. So Delaware is not moderate any more.HYUFD said:
Delaware voted Hillary 53% Trump 42% in 2016 and Trump won 2/3 of its counties, Massachussetts voted Hillary 60% Trump 33% and Hillary won every one of its counties so Massachussetts is still more left liberal than Delaware which is more moderate.EPG said:MA was much more Irish Catholic than DE, but now both are dominated by the big-city knowledge worker type votes of Boston and Philadelphia, so DE has started to vote more like MA, not entirely, but enough to make it the difference harder to see. CA is a different kettle of fish. The ethnic mix of adult citizens has totally changed since the 1980s. So it is more totally incomparable to the way it used to be in the 1980s. And of course, CA voters in the 1980s could see it coming, and (over-)reacted in their Anglo Republican-ness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_in_Delaware
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_in_Massachusetts0 -
Thanks Rotten. But I came off the CTO earlier this year. But if I stop getting injected they'll just apply for another one. And I'm in Scotland so it's a Compulsory Treatment Orderrottenborough said:
https://www.rethink.org/advice-and-information/rights-restrictions/mental-health-laws/community-treatment-orders/JBriskinindyref2 said:Re: Mental Health
Does anyone have any tips for getting out of a de facto CTO where our glorious NHS are really quite insistent (with the back up of lets say various forms of the state) on injecting me with 75mg of [confidential] every month.0 -
It's a disgrace is what it is. What is my glorious hard copy of Erskine May worth now?rottenborough said:0 -
We don’t get to put up a Senatorial candidate thoughHYUFD said:
California as a whole is not left liberal, San Francisco and the Bay area is, even McGovern won there, southern California though is in parts quite conservativeNigelb said:
California voted for Nixon, Bush and Reagan.HYUFD said:
Delaware voted for Nixon in 1972 and Bush Snr in 1988, Massachusetts voted for McGovern and DukakisFoxy said:
Biden is Senator for the left liberal state of Delaware is he not?HYUFD said:
Elizabeth Warren is a Senator from Massachusetts, about the most left liberal state in the US and is pitching to the cultural and economic left.williamglenn said:
Elizabeth Warren is from Oklahoma and is pitching for the swing middle class voters needed to win in 2020. Biden is a serial loser for a reason and I think Trump would get the better of him too.HYUFD said:
If it is Warren v Harris Trump will be laughing all the way to re election, he probably wins the popular vote against either as well as likely increasing his Electoral College margin.kinabalu said:Warren vs Kamala in debate will be very interesting. Looking forward to that. If the Dem race boils down to these two I will be happy and relaxed. Trump is toast against either but IMO marginally more crisp and burnt if the junior senator from California gets the nod. The fact that she is my main bet has absolutely nothing to do with this assessment. It is 100% objective based on the evidence of my eyes and ears.
If the Democrats really think two liberal coastal elitists stand a better chance of beating Trump in the Electoral College than a charismatic centrist from rustbelt Pennsylvania like Joe Biden then they deserve to lose in 2020
Biden won 2 presidential elections with Obama and was re elected as Senator from Delaware in the 1980s even when Reagan and Bush Snr won the state0 -
That's incorrect, even more so back in 1997.HYUFD said:
Realistically we can defend Gibraltar v Spain or the Falklands v Argentina but we can only defend Hong Kong v China with US support, we are not in China's league militarily or economically, only the US isViceroy_of_Orange said:
I agree that our treatment of HK was disgraceful.viewcode said:
The problem is not the HK ensign. The problem is talking hard and doing fuck all. If we were commited to securing the freedom of the people of Hong Kong we could have chosen to stay there (the expiring part of the lease didn't cover the island) or allow the inhabitants to have passports that allowed them to settle in the UK. Given that neither of these things were done and our present shower of shit in Westminster and Whitehall aren't going to allow a mass immigration of millions of people, then all the UK is going to do is fail and blame, a mode of action it is becoming all too comfortable with.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?Gallowgate said:
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?Gallowgate said:
You’re a parody.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.EPG said:One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
Our pathetic leaders are willing to send troops and planes to Syria and Libya, areas where we have absolutely no business, but fold over like cheap deckchairs in the face of China. Gutless fools.
The stuff I have read on Chinese capabilities suggests it would struggle/be unable to even take back Taiwan in 2019. They have one old Soviet aircraft carrier.0 -
Probably. But must be a stop and think moment for many members.kle4 said:
IDS is more popular with the members, is he not? HYUFD may be overly harsh on former remainers being permitted to say they now back Brexit, but he probably picks up on the mood of the members well enough.rottenborough said:Hague is a major intervention. Just as ballots arrive through letter boxes.
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And we wouldn’t get involved unless the people of HK clearly asked us to, in which case international support would probably be forthcoming. Taking on China, in China, is much easier said than done - they have no limit to the number of casualties they’d be prepared to take.HYUFD said:
Realistically we can defend Gibraltar v Spain or the Falklands v Argentina but we can only defend Hong Kong v China with US support, we are not in China's league militarily or economically, only the US isViceroy_of_Orange said:
I agree that our treatment of HK was disgraceful.viewcode said:
The problem is not the HK ensign. The problem is talking hard and doing fuck all. If we were commited to securing the freedom of the people of Hong Kong we could have chosen to stay there (the expiring part of the lease didn't cover the island) or allow the inhabitants to have passports that allowed them to settle in the UK. Given that neither of these things were done and our present shower of shit in Westminster and Whitehall aren't going to allow a mass immigration of millions of people, then all the UK is going to do is fail and blame, a mode of action it is becoming all too comfortable with.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?Gallowgate said:
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?Gallowgate said:
You’re a parody.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.EPG said:One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
Our pathetic leaders are willing to send troops and planes to Syria and Libya, areas where we have absolutely no business, but fold over like cheap deckchairs in the face of China. Gutless fools.
Edit: Southampton is of course right that the flying of the flag is more about pissing off the Chinese than any real want to return to British rule.0 -
Given that Hunt has adopted his own version of "Fuck business" there's not really much to choose between them anymore.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
Did anyone actually think it meant they wanted the British back? I'd have thought at most it could indicate that some regret how some things have gone since we have left, politically, or that it is a convenient symnol of why they have a separate system that should not be forgotten. But the annoyance argument is clearly more likely. I mean, there's small independence support there IIRC, but wanting us back? Not heard that one before.SouthamObserver said:According to the people in our HK office the old colonial flag does not get brought out because anyone wants the British back. It’s done because it really winds-up the Chinese government.
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The issue was that we had to return the New Territories as the lease was expiringViceroy_of_Orange said:
I agree that our treatment of HK was disgraceful.viewcode said:
The problem is not the HK ensign. The problem is talking hard and doing fuck all. If we were commited to securing the freedom of the people of Hong Kong we could have chosen to stay there (the expiring part of the lease didn't cover the island) or allow the inhabitants to have passports that allowed them to settle in the UK. Given that neither of these things were done and our present shower of shit in Westminster and Whitehall aren't going to allow a mass immigration of millions of people, then all the UK is going to do is fail and blame, a mode of action it is becoming all too comfortable with.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?Gallowgate said:
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?Gallowgate said:
You’re a parody.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.EPG said:One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
Our pathetic leaders are willing to send troops and planes to Syria and Libya, areas where we have absolutely no business, but fold over like cheap deckchairs in the face of China. Gutless fools.
Without power, water and sewage treatment continued rule of Hong Kong Island was deemed unviable0 -
£329, according to Amazon.kle4 said:
It's a disgrace is what it is. What is my glorious hard copy of Erskine May worth now?rottenborough said:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Erskine-May-Parliamentary-David-Natzler/dp/1474313361/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=Erskine+May&qid=1562017243&s=gateway&sr=8-2
(As one without a hard copy, it’ll be fantastic to see it online!).0 -
It would require significant changes though.StuartDickson said:
Absolute nonsense.Luckyguy1983 said:
An independent Scotland would require significant financial support. Whether it would get it is another question entirely.williamglenn said:
Scotland.Luckyguy1983 said:
Country?Mexicanpete said:
Source?Luckyguy1983 said:
No country wants to join the EU unless they need the money.Gallowgate said:
There will be those of the view that no matter the end result, the Brexit will never be hard enough. There will be those who want to rejoin the EU. There will be those who want to rejoin EEA/The Single Market.Luckyguy1983 said:
Of course it won't. Our relationship with the continent will continue to be a big issue - as it has always been.Gallowgate said:
What is wrong with you people? Brexit does not 'end' once(if) we leave. This will dominate British politics for the next 20 years.kjohnw said:
People are kidding themselves if they think this all goes away.
The latest GERS figures for 2017-18 (assuming the SNP's preferred measure of geographic share of oil) show revenue of £60Bn and expenditure of £73Bn for Scotland - a shortfall of £13Bn (22% of revenue). This is a net overspend of £2.5k per head in Scotland, vs £600 for the whole UK. To reduce the Scottish overspend to UK average levels, an Independent Scotland would have to increase revenue or cut expenditure by £10Bn (a 16% change).
Even so, Scotland would still be above average for EU GDP/head so would be a net contributor to the EU: the old structural grants won't come back.
The current deficit per head is covered by the Barnett arrangement which would cease on independence. We will have no choice but to increase taxes or reduce expenditure significantly.
Which would you prefer?1 -
You have other funny cases of party switching in America. Vermont used to be strongly Republican and West Virginia supremely Democratic, and not long ago either, maybe 30y ago. Now they have reversed. It's hard to explain exactly why things happened this way, but to an extent any two-party system will tend toward an equilibrium, so if a party loses lots of support in one place, it will push hard to regain it elsewhere by changing its views. You could say this is what happened to Democrats by losing three times, hard, in the 80s. Johnson thought it was his fault for pushing the Civil Rights Act but crime/economic/welfare policies of the 70s did not help Democrats. You had to be like Biden to prosper as a Democrat. And what prospered as a Democrat then is not what would best prosper now.0
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I'm getting out of my depth now but maybe this?JBriskinindyref2 said:
Thanks Rotten. But I came off the CTO earlier this year. But if I stop getting injected they'll just apply for another one. And I'm in Scotland so it's a Compulsory Treatment Orderrottenborough said:
https://www.rethink.org/advice-and-information/rights-restrictions/mental-health-laws/community-treatment-orders/JBriskinindyref2 said:Re: Mental Health
Does anyone have any tips for getting out of a de facto CTO where our glorious NHS are really quite insistent (with the back up of lets say various forms of the state) on injecting me with 75mg of [confidential] every month.
https://www.pohwer.net/independent-mental-health-advocacy-imha0 -
The members who would rather give up the UK union than delay exit past 31 October, even if that was necessary to no deal properly? They are, in significant numbers, going to stop and think because of a Hague intervention.rottenborough said:
Probably. But must be a stop and think moment for many members.kle4 said:
IDS is more popular with the members, is he not? HYUFD may be overly harsh on former remainers being permitted to say they now back Brexit, but he probably picks up on the mood of the members well enough.rottenborough said:Hague is a major intervention. Just as ballots arrive through letter boxes.
There's many smart people among their ranks, I am sure, even ones who disagree with me entirely no doubt, but as a group they don't seem the reflective type.0 -
We have controlled sales for tobacco. And we seem to spend a huge amount of time, money and effort in stopping people smoking because it is bad for their health. And indeed making it illegal to smoke in various places.Sandpit said:
In terms of the drug laws and their effectiveness, they work well in Portugual, Amsterdam and Colorado, and they also work well in Singapore, Dubai and Thailand.Cyclefree said:CatMan said:
Mental health has become a fashionable cause these days. Hardly a day passes without advice about how to notice it, how to care for it, how to ensure that we don't stress our children, our colleagues, our employees, our students because mental health is important. And yet at the same time we (some of us) seem relaxed about the idea of allowing a product which does cause serious mental health issues to be sold legally to the very same young people whose mental health we worry about.
It does not really compute for me. It strikes me that the level of thinking is (1) the drugs laws aren't working; (2) therefore let's legalise (without noticing that (2) does not necessarily follow from (1)); and (3) since that is what people want to do let's ignore any evidence suggesting that this might not be a good idea for some.
Meanwhile somewhere else in government someone will be talking about how we must look after the mental health of our young people without wondering whether the existing problems with cannabis use might get worse rather than better if it's legalised.
Doubtless we do need a more rational approach to drugs but a bit of joined up thinking on the topic would be good.
They emphatically don’t work in most of Europe and the US - we have literally hundreds of deaths a year in London alone, not related to the drugs themselves but within the gangs of young people who are seeking to control the illegal market. The mushy middle way of most Western states has been proven not to work over a period of decades, with organised criminals very much in control of the trade.
Personally I’d go down the libertarian route, treat most drugs like we treat alcohol and cigarettes, with controlled sales and taxes funding treatment for addiction. The authoritarian route is much more expensive and probably too difficult to implement in practice in a comparatively liberal state.
So explain to me why we would want to make it easier to allow people to smoke freely another product with similarly harmful effects on people's health?
0 -
Literally nothing in your post is true and I think you know it. Given that archaeological evidence suggests that Great Zimbabwe was part of a trade network that extended as far as China and the Portuguese had been in the area since the early 16th century, Rhodes wasn’t even the first outsider to arrive there. The Portuguese described it, in 1531, as - “...among the gold mines of the inland plains between the Limpopo and Zambezi rivers there is a fortress built of stones of marvelous size, and there appears to be no mortar joining them....This edifice is almost surrounded by hills, upon which are others resembling it in the fashioning of stone and the absence of mortar...”. So there was plenty of great merit there before Rhodes stuck his greedy oar in.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
The wheel did not exist there before this guy arrived. So given he and his successors actually built something of merit in an area where there was previously nothing, he has a pretty strong claim to have it named after himself.DougSeal said:
Rhodesia is not the native name. The borders of what is now Zimbabwe were imposed by people from an entirely different continent with no concerns for local culture or geography and when the native people regained control they gave it the most appropriate name they could find, that of an ancient empire within its borders, rather than keeping the name of a guy from a very long way away who happened to conquer them a century earlier.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
So I take it then that you refer to Paris as Paree, Seville as Sevilla, Prague as Praha and Moscow as Mosckva? If not, why are you being inconsistent? Either you insist on using the native names for all, most of which have totally different sounds in native languages, or do not. I prefer using the names on my own language.Gallowgate said:
Because you get off on old colonial symbols and terminology like ‘Peking’.
I bet you still call Zimbabwe Rhodesia.
Most of the time anyway, the people who re-name cities or places aren't particulary nice. If you go to Bombay, as I have, you'll notice that many Indians shun the extreme nationalist (invented) name of Mumbai, and still call it Bombay.
I wouldn't call Zimbabwe Rhodesia though. That's an insult to Rhodesia.
Given it is returning to its previous state of nothingness though, it is fitting to revert to the name Zimbabwe. I will give you that.0 -
My Democratic twitter feed covers everything from Bernie Bros to Cautious Conservatives. Amongst all that Warren is the one that is inspring the "would like to have a beer with" style comments.rottenborough said:
Just don't see it myself. She's impressive and is a definite top three or four contender. But out in real america?williamglenn said:
It’s Warren.rottenborough said:
I know who I think can pull in the six packers in PA who deserted Obama for Trump.0 -
I meant in bragging rights.Sandpit said:
£329, according to Amazon.kle4 said:
It's a disgrace is what it is. What is my glorious hard copy of Erskine May worth now?rottenborough said:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Erskine-May-Parliamentary-David-Natzler/dp/1474313361/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=Erskine+May&qid=1562017243&s=gateway&sr=8-2
(As one without a hard copy, it’ll be fantastic to see it online!).
But mine is one edition out of date now anyway.
That said, freed from hard copy publishing contraints it would be good to get links to past procedure and precedents. In places it can be quite detailed as to how things have evolved to their present form, in others barely any detail at all.1 -
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Thanks for trying Rotten - I'll have a look later.0
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Cannabis is less physically harmful as Tobacco. Tobacco is also legal, so how can you say "You can smoke this harmful drug, but this less harmful one you can't"?Cyclefree said:
So explain to me why we would want to make it easier to allow people to smoke freely another product with similarly harmful effects on people's health?
1 -
AndyJS said:
Most people who use alcohol don't develop mental health problems.CatMan said:
No one is saying Cannabis is harmless, but Alcohol isn't harmless either but we accept that most people use it sensibly so it remains legal, despite all the problems it causes.Cyclefree said:
Perhaps that story should have been read in conjunction with this one - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-opens-its-first-clinic-to-treat-cannabis-psychosis-85pw6xpmp
Another issue that undermines the arguments comparing it with alcohol is that it's fairly hard nowadays to get hold of any cannabis that isn't super strength.
Imagine a world where session ales are virtually non-existent and the only beers you can drink were all 8%+ That's what weed is like now.
1 -
Normally I’d agree. But he has said that everyone in Cabinet has to be committed to No Deal.kle4 said:
I find that impossible to believe. Enough people would be willing to serve anyone. Whether he really follows through or not, I find it more likely this is a position to indicate he is not trying to buy support in parliament.Charles said:
Or that he can’t find enough people willing to serve...kle4 said:
Stories like that just make me think 'how would I know what the right sized Cabinet is anyway?'. Is it too large at the moment? Not large enough? I'd have no idea.Scott_P said:
Allows him to show he is prepared to tackle waste even as it applies to government offices, and that he is not concerned about handing out lots of prize places to get votes though.0 -
Because they’re doing it anyway, but in an uncontrolled manner; and hundreds of kids are losing their lives both from the drugs themselves and the turf wars between gangs of dealers. Four street stabbings just in London last weekend I believe.Cyclefree said:
We have controlled sales for tobacco. And we seem to spend a huge amount of time, money and effort in stopping people smoking because it is bad for their health. And indeed making it illegal to smoke in various places.Sandpit said:
In terms of the drug laws and their effectiveness, they work well in Portugual, Amsterdam and Colorado, and they also work well in Singapore, Dubai and Thailand.Cyclefree said:
Mental health has become a fashionable cause these days. Hardly a day passes without advice about how to notice it, how to care for it, how to ensure that we don't stress our children, our colleagues, our employees, our students because mental health is important. And yet at the same time we (some of us) seem relaxed about the idea of allowing a product which does cause serious mental health issues to be sold legally to the very same young people whose mental health we worry about.
It does not really compute for me. It strikes me that the level of thinking is (1) the drugs laws aren't working; (2) therefore let's legalise (without noticing that (2) does not necessarily follow from (1)); and (3) since that is what people want to do let's ignore any evidence suggesting that this might not be a good idea for some.
Meanwhile somewhere else in government someone will be talking about how we must look after the mental health of our young people without wondering whether the existing problems with cannabis use might get worse rather than better if it's legalised.
Doubtless we do need a more rational approach to drugs but a bit of joined up thinking on the topic would be good.
They emphatically don’t work in most of Europe and the US - we have literally hundreds of deaths a year in London alone, not related to the drugs themselves but within the gangs of young people who are seeking to control the illegal market. The mushy middle way of most Western states has been proven not to work over a period of decades, with organised criminals very much in control of the trade.
Personally I’d go down the libertarian route, treat most drugs like we treat alcohol and cigarettes, with controlled sales and taxes funding treatment for addiction. The authoritarian route is much more expensive and probably too difficult to implement in practice in a comparatively liberal state.
So explain to me why we would want to make it easier to allow people to smoke freely another product with similarly harmful effects on people's health?1 -
It has long been predicted that if the choice came down to no deal or revoke vs finally accepting the deal, at least said deal would be accepted.rottenborough said:
Problem is no one ever quite believes the choice has been narrowed down so much. They were all told MV being turned down might mean no Brexit, and it got most of the Tories on board, but they have also all known no deal was possible if nothing else happened, and it has not gotten Lab MPs on board. Add to that the EU last time did blink and give an extension for no purpose when they said they would not, and plenty will still be denying the need to choose no deal, revoke or the damn deal right to the end, assuming they would fold even if the UK did not.1 -
From talking to people over there, this is all very different to a couple of years ago. It’s not just students, it’s everyone. We’ve given our lot time off to join the demos if they want - and plenty do. They come back with sore, tear-gassed eyes and cuts and bruises. Independence is talked of more and more, even though everyone understands it cannot and will not happen. Things are going to get quite nasty, I fear.kle4 said:
Did anyone actually think it meant they wanted the British back? I'd have thought at most it could indicate that some regret how some things have gone since we have left, politically, or that it is a convenient symnol of why they have a separate system that should not be forgotten. But the annoyance argument is clearly more likely. I mean, there's small independence support there IIRC, but wanting us back? Not heard that one before.SouthamObserver said:According to the people in our HK office the old colonial flag does not get brought out because anyone wants the British back. It’s done because it really winds-up the Chinese government.
0 -
Emily Maitliss is my hero! Damian Green absolutely kippered. What a creepy person he is.0
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Could not weaker varieties make a comeback in a legal market?SirBenjamin said:AndyJS said:
Most people who use alcohol don't develop mental health problems.CatMan said:
No one is saying Cannabis is harmless, but Alcohol isn't harmless either but we accept that most people use it sensibly so it remains legal, despite all the problems it causes.Cyclefree said:
Perhaps that story should have been read in conjunction with this one - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-opens-its-first-clinic-to-treat-cannabis-psychosis-85pw6xpmp
Another issue that undermines the arguments comparing it with alcohol is that it's fairly hard nowadays to get hold of any cannabis that isn't super strength.
Imagine a world where session ales are virtually non-existent and the only beers you can drink were all 8%+ That's what weed is like now.2 -
Amongst Democrats, not swing voters in Ohio and PennsylvaniaAlistair said:
My Democratic twitter feed covers everything from Bernie Bros to Cautious Conservatives. Amongst all that Warren is the one that is inspring the "would like to have a beer with" style comments.rottenborough said:
Just don't see it myself. She's impressive and is a definite top three or four contender. But out in real america?williamglenn said:
It’s Warren.rottenborough said:
I know who I think can pull in the six packers in PA who deserted Obama for Trump.0 -
Truly? I don't get that vibe from her, but if so it suggests she is able to connect better than I think.Alistair said:
My Democratic twitter feed covers everything from Bernie Bros to Cautious Conservatives. Amongst all that Warren is the one that is inspring the "would like to have a beer with" style comments.rottenborough said:
Just don't see it myself. She's impressive and is a definite top three or four contender. But out in real america?williamglenn said:
It’s Warren.rottenborough said:
I know who I think can pull in the six packers in PA who deserted Obama for Trump.
0 -
Look at what happens in places that have legalised recreational Cannabis. The Netherlands (de facto anyway), Canada, several US states. They haven't said afterwards "Oh my god, we've made a terrible mistake, lets make it illegal again."
Cannibis is *not* harmless. But making it illegal is falling into the same trap the US made when they made Alcohol illegal. People still use it, only the market is unregulated and controlled by criminals, leading to more problems than if it was regulated.2 -
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If they are equally awful, then the least bufoonish would be preferable. It's not as obviously Hunt as it might appear at first glance.Cyclefree said:
Given that Hunt has adopted his own version of "Fuck business" there's not really much to choose between them anymore.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
What great books, art, inventions, engineering, infrastructure, science, mathematics, industry and agriculture came from this 'Great' Zimbabwe?DougSeal said:
Literally nothing in your post is true and I think you know it. Given that archaeological evidence suggests that Great Zimbabwe was part of a trade network that extended as far as China and the Portuguese had been in the area since the early 16th century, Rhodes wasn’t even the first outsider to arrive there. The Portuguese described it, in 1531, as - “...among the gold mines of the inland plains between the Limpopo and Zambezi rivers there is a fortress built of stones of marvelous size, and there appears to be no mortar joining them....This edifice is almost surrounded by hills, upon which are others resembling it in the fashioning of stone and the absence of mortar...”. So there was plenty of great merit there before Rhodes stuck his greedy oar in.
Some pre-colonial civilisations were impressive in certain ways. But elevating what were backwards African kingdoms at the time when compared with the rest of the world is falsifying history. As I think you know yourself, deep down.
The area known as Zimbabwe/Rhodesia was nothing pre-Rhodes.0 -
It is still significantly more moderate than MassachussettsEPG said:
Neither MA nor DE is moderate any more. Counties don't matter because some of them are tiny in the USA - what matters is whether DE would vote Republican in a normal year when its vote might count. It would not. It has too many east-coast urbanites, a bloc that has recently (30y) become strongly Democrat basically in reaction to the religious/culture wars and the lower tax policies. So Delaware is not moderate any more.HYUFD said:
Delaware voted Hillary 53% Trump 42% in 2016 and Trump won 2/3 of its counties, Massachussetts voted Hillary 60% Trump 33% and Hillary won every one of its counties so Massachussetts is still more left liberal than Delaware which is more moderate.EPG said:MA was much more Irish Catholic than DE, but now both are dominated by the big-city knowledge worker type votes of Boston and Philadelphia, so DE has started to vote more like MA, not entirely, but enough to make it the difference harder to see. CA is a different kettle of fish. The ethnic mix of adult citizens has totally changed since the 1980s. So it is more totally incomparable to the way it used to be in the 1980s. And of course, CA voters in the 1980s could see it coming, and (over-)reacted in their Anglo Republican-ness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_in_Delaware
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_in_Massachusetts
0 -
Given they have time on their side surely China will clamp down hard on any violence, but otherwise go a bit more softly softly? They don't want to give in to people power, I assume but what's the rush?SouthamObserver said:
From talking to people over there, this is all very different to a couple of years ago. It’s not just students, it’s everyone. We’ve given our lot time off to join the demos if they want - and plenty do. They come back with sore, tear-gassed eyes and cuts and bruises. Independence is talked of more and more, even though everyone understands it cannot and will not happen. Things are going to get quite nasty, I fear.kle4 said:
Did anyone actually think it meant they wanted the British back? I'd have thought at most it could indicate that some regret how some things have gone since we have left, politically, or that it is a convenient symnol of why they have a separate system that should not be forgotten. But the annoyance argument is clearly more likely. I mean, there's small independence support there IIRC, but wanting us back? Not heard that one before.SouthamObserver said:According to the people in our HK office the old colonial flag does not get brought out because anyone wants the British back. It’s done because it really winds-up the Chinese government.
0 -
Emily Maitlis 'Jeremy Hunt makes Boris Johnson look consistent' something in thatCyclefree said:
Given that Hunt has adopted his own version of "Fuck business" there's not really much to choose between them anymore.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
Sanctions and international pressure is realistically the most we would doSandpit said:
And we wouldn’t get involved unless the people of HK clearly asked us to, in which case international support would probably be forthcoming. Taking on China, in China, is much easier said than done - they have no limit to the number of casualties they’d be prepared to take.HYUFD said:
Realistically we can defend Gibraltar v Spain or the Falklands v Argentina but we can only defend Hong Kong v China with US support, we are not in China's league militarily or economically, only the US isViceroy_of_Orange said:
I agree that our treatment of HK was disgraceful.viewcode said:
The problem is not the HK ensign. The problem is talking hard and doing fuck all. If we were commited to securing the freedom of the people of Hong Kong we could have chosen to stay there (the expiring part of the lease didn't cover the island) or allow the inhabitants to have passports that allowed them to settle in the UK. Given that neither of these things were done and our present shower of shit in Westminster and Whitehall aren't going to allow a mass immigration of millions of people, then all the UK is going to do is fail and blame, a mode of action it is becoming all too comfortable with.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?Gallowgate said:
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?Gallowgate said:
You’re a parody.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.EPG said:One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
Our pathetic leaders are willing to send troops and planes to Syria and Libya, areas where we have absolutely no business, but fold over like cheap deckchairs in the face of China. Gutless fools.
Edit: Southampton is of course right that the flying of the flag is more about pissing off the Chinese than any real want to return to British rule.1 -
It's perfectly possible to vape cannabis oil nowadays, no tobacco or smoking necessary. Popular pursuit in green jurisdictions like Colorado, and London.AndyJS said:To be fervently anti-tobacco smoking and at the same time strongly in favour of cannabis smoking seems a very strange set of opinions to hold IMO, a bit like the Victorians who banned cockfighting while continuing to engage in fox-hunting.
0 -
Telegraph:Mexicanpete said:
"Sources in Mr Johnson’s camp have said any rationalisation of Whitehall - known in Westminster as “the blob” because of its grinding inefficiency - would have to wait until after Brexit had been delivered, as the first 100 days of a Johnson premiership would be almost entirely focused on ensuring Britain leaves the EU by Oct 31." He wont be PM by then, if he even makes it through to end of July. 0 -
I have had dealings with powher, and they are quite good at balancing issues and advocating for the patient. I think it only possible to get them involved if a further CTO is invoked.rottenborough said:
I'm getting out of my depth now but maybe this?JBriskinindyref2 said:
Thanks Rotten. But I came off the CTO earlier this year. But if I stop getting injected they'll just apply for another one. And I'm in Scotland so it's a Compulsory Treatment Orderrottenborough said:
https://www.rethink.org/advice-and-information/rights-restrictions/mental-health-laws/community-treatment-orders/JBriskinindyref2 said:Re: Mental Health
Does anyone have any tips for getting out of a de facto CTO where our glorious NHS are really quite insistent (with the back up of lets say various forms of the state) on injecting me with 75mg of [confidential] every month.
https://www.pohwer.net/independent-mental-health-advocacy-imha
Consider though that you may well be better off on treatment. Ask family and friends.0 -
Indeed so. And the tax revenues the State of Colorado has made on the stuff are something to behold.CatMan said:Look at what happens in places that have legalised recreational Cannabis. The Netherlands (de facto anyway), Canada, several US states. They haven't said afterwards "Oh my god, we've made a terrible mistake, lets make it illegal again."
Cannibis is *not* harmless. But making it illegal is falling into the same trap the US made when they made Alcohol illegal. People still use it, only the market is unregulated and controlled by criminals, leading to more problems than if it was regulated.0 -
How does he get to “House of Commons votes on law to require PM to seek extension”. As in, what’s the mechanism by which this comes about in the foreseen timescale?rottenborough said:0 -
Bercow magic.Sandpit said:
How does he get to “House of Commons votes on law to require PM to seek extension”. As in, what’s the mechanism by which this comes about in the foreseen timescale?rottenborough said:0 -
Again, that is a consequence of its prohibition. Were it legal, milder varieties would become more easily available. In green jurisdictions, one is able to choose from a vast range of strengths and strains.SirBenjamin said:AndyJS said:
Most people who use alcohol don't develop mental health problems.CatMan said:
No one is saying Cannabis is harmless, but Alcohol isn't harmless either but we accept that most people use it sensibly so it remains legal, despite all the problems it causes.Cyclefree said:
Perhaps that story should have been read in conjunction with this one - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-opens-its-first-clinic-to-treat-cannabis-psychosis-85pw6xpmp
Another issue that undermines the arguments comparing it with alcohol is that it's fairly hard nowadays to get hold of any cannabis that isn't super strength.
Imagine a world where session ales are virtually non-existent and the only beers you can drink were all 8%+ That's what weed is like now.1 -
Am I alone in wondering what the May vs Leadsom final few weeks would have been like if Leadsom had not backed out?
Pretty sure I wouldn't be this 'make up a populist policy a day' bollx we have now.
But maybe I am being naive.
Tomorrow will probably bring an argument about who will bring back hanging for sheep stealing the quickest.
0 -
China has 2 million military personnel, 3187 aircraft, 1,004 helicopters and 13,000 tanks, 76 submarines, and 52 frigates and 33 destroyers.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
That's incorrect, even more so back in 1997.HYUFD said:
Realistically we can defend Gibraltar v Spain or the Falklands v Argentina but we can only defend Hong Kong v China with US support, we are not in China's league militarily or economically, only the US isViceroy_of_Orange said:
I agree that our treatment of HK was disgraceful.viewcode said:
The problem is not the HK ensign. The problem is talking hard and doing fuck all. If we were commited to securing the freedom of the people of Hong Kong we could have chosen to stay there (the expiring part of the leasoing to do is fail and blame, a mode of action it is becoming all too comfortable with.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?Gallowgate said:
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?Gallowgate said:
You’re a parody.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.EPG said:One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
Our pathetic leaders are willing to send troops and planes to Syria and Libya, areas where we have absolutely no business, but fold over like cheap deckchairs in the face of China. Gutless fools.
The stuff I have read on Chinese capabilities suggests it would struggle/be unable to even take back Taiwan in 2019. They have one old Soviet aircraft carrier.
https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=china
We have 233 000 military personnel, 811 aircraft, 319 helicopters, 331 tanks, 10 submarines, 13 frigates and 6 destroyers.
https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=united-kingdom
It would be idiotic for the UK to declare war on China, especially without US support1 -
Yes, drug dealing is undeniably lucrative, but do we want a government by mafia?_Anazina_ said:
Indeed so. And the tax revenues the State of Colorado has made on the stuff are something to behold.CatMan said:Look at what happens in places that have legalised recreational Cannabis. The Netherlands (de facto anyway), Canada, several US states. They haven't said afterwards "Oh my god, we've made a terrible mistake, lets make it illegal again."
Cannibis is *not* harmless. But making it illegal is falling into the same trap the US made when they made Alcohol illegal. People still use it, only the market is unregulated and controlled by criminals, leading to more problems than if it was regulated.0 -
I was wondering the same thing.Sandpit said:
How does he get to “House of Commons votes on law to require PM to seek extension”. As in, what’s the mechanism by which this comes about in the foreseen timescale?rottenborough said:
0 -
What do they need so many tanks for?HYUFD said:
China has 2 million military personnel, 3187 aircraft, 1,004 helicopters and 13,000 tanks, 76 submarines, and 52 frigates and 33 destroyers.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
That's incorrect, even more so back in 1997.HYUFD said:
Realistically we can defend Gibraltar v Spain or the Falklands v Argentina but we can only defend Hong Kong v China with US support, we are not in China's league militarily or economically, only the US isViceroy_of_Orange said:
I agree that our treatment of HK was disgraceful.viewcode said:
The problem is not the HK ensign. The problem is talking hard and doing fuck all. If we were commited to securing the freedom of the people of Hong Kong we could have chosen to stay there (the expiring part of the leasoing to do is fail and blame, a mode of action it is becoming all too comfortable with.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?Gallowgate said:
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?Gallowgate said:
You’re a parody.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
That fy.EPG said:One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whace
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
Our pathetic leaders are willing to send troops and planes to Syria and Libya, areas where we have absolutely no business, but fold over like cheap deckchairs in the face of China. Gutless fools.
The stuff I have read on Chinese capabilities suggests it would struggle/be unable to even take back Taiwan in 2019. They have one old Soviet aircraft carrier.
https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=china
We have 233 000 military personnel, 811 aircraft, 319 helicopters, 331 tanks, 13 frigates and 6 destroyers.
https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=united-kingdom
It would be idiotic for the UK to declare war on China, especially without US support
I recall playing some global strategy game more than a decade ago. Pretty basic, and I don't even remember the name of it. I've never been very good at strategy, so I would also just play as China, and essentially spam attack other countries by wearing them down with millions upon millions of soldier conscripts. Thank goodness that wouldn't actually work!0 -
Having said a 'No Deal Brexit' would be "An absolute disaster for this country" he now supports Boris who supports just that. I've never seen a politician squirm as much. He's appropriately named if you're a fan of The Exorcist.HYUFD said:
Green is backing Boris and he clearly respects democracyRoger said:Emily Maitliss is my hero! Damian Green absolutely kippered. What a creepy person he is.
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What a spineless twat Damian Green is.
He tells small business a no deal would be a catastrophe and then in his sucking up to Bozo changes his tune .
I totally disagree with the hard Tory Brexiters however at least they’ve been consistent , if there’s one thing I despise it’s those who were against no deal but suddenly decide for their job prospects to change their tune .
In that respect I hope Hunt gets trounced by Bozo and then doesn’t get a cabinet job !0 -
Green went red.Mexicanpete said:0 -
0
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You sound ridiculous when you paint it like that, making your position look more of a parody than it deserves to look. Countries which legalise are just mafias are they? Undermines the actual issues, which some adherents are keen to skate past in their eagerness to legally get high.Foxy said:
Yes, drug dealing is undeniably lucrative, but do we want a government by mafia?_Anazina_ said:
Indeed so. And the tax revenues the State of Colorado has made on the stuff are something to behold.CatMan said:Look at what happens in places that have legalised recreational Cannabis. The Netherlands (de facto anyway), Canada, several US states. They haven't said afterwards "Oh my god, we've made a terrible mistake, lets make it illegal again."
Cannibis is *not* harmless. But making it illegal is falling into the same trap the US made when they made Alcohol illegal. People still use it, only the market is unregulated and controlled by criminals, leading to more problems than if it was regulated.0 -
A major war in the Middle East could easily mean no Brexit.0
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I don't really have any friends left. I took the pills for years so I don't have a problem with treatment in theory. Injections are just so brutal.Foxy said:
I have had dealings with powher, and they are quite good at balancing issues and advocating for the patient. I think it only possible to get them involved if a further CTO is invoked.rottenborough said:
I'm getting out of my depth now but maybe this?JBriskinindyref2 said:
Thanks Rotten. But I came off the CTO earlier this year. But if I stop getting injected they'll just apply for another one. And I'm in Scotland so it's a Compulsory Treatment Orderrottenborough said:
https://www.rethink.org/advice-and-information/rights-restrictions/mental-health-laws/community-treatment-orders/JBriskinindyref2 said:Re: Mental Health
Does anyone have any tips for getting out of a de facto CTO where our glorious NHS are really quite insistent (with the back up of lets say various forms of the state) on injecting me with 75mg of [confidential] every month.
https://www.pohwer.net/independent-mental-health-advocacy-imha
Consider though that you may well be better off on treatment. Ask family and friends.
I'm well financially compensated for it though so I should really complain.0 -
Well, you'll get at least half your wish, with a chance of the whole.nico67 said:What a spineless twat Damian Green is.
He tells small business a no deal would be a catastrophe and then in his sucking up to Bozo changes his tune .
I totally disagree with the hard Tory Brexiters however at least they’ve been consistent , if there’s one thing I despise it’s those who were against no deal but suddenly decide for their job prospects to change their tune .
In that respect I hope Hunt gets trounced by Bozo and then doesn’t get a cabinet job !0 -
Hillary seems to be pinning his hopes of stopping No Deal on Tory MPs voting to bring down their government and be deselected.
Brave?
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Quite apart from numbers, where is our nearest base? Bahrain?HYUFD said:
China has 2 million military personnel, 3187 aircraft, 1,004 helicopters and 13,000 tanks, 76 submarines, and 52 frigates and 33 destroyers.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
That's incorrect, even more so back in 1997.HYUFD said:
Realistically we can defend Gibraltar v Spain or the Falklands v Argentina but we can only defend Hong Kong v China with US support, we are not in China's league militarily or economically, only the US isViceroy_of_Orange said:
I agree that our treatment of HK was disgraceful.viewcode said:
The problem is not the HK ensign. The problem is talking hard and doing fuck all. If we were commited to securing the freedom of the people of Hong Kong we could have chosen to stay there (the expiring part of the leasoing to do is fail and blame, a mode of action it is becoming all too comfortable with.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?Gallowgate said:
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?Gallowgate said:
You’re a parody.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.EPG said:One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
Our pathetic leaders are willing to send troops and planes to Syria and Libya, areas where we have absolutely no business, but fold over like cheap deckchairs in the face of China. Gutless fools.
The stuff I have read on Chinese capabilities suggests it would struggle/be unable to even take back Taiwan in 2019. They have one old Soviet aircraft carrier.
https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=china
We have 233 000 military personnel, 811 aircraft, 319 helicopters, 331 tanks, 10 submarines, 13 frigates and 6 destroyers.
https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=united-kingdom
It would be idiotic for the UK to declare war on China, especially without US support0 -
Is she the talk of the tomahawk because of her Pocahontas outfit?kle4 said:
Truly? I don't get that vibe from her, but if so it suggests she is able to connect better than I think.Alistair said:
My Democratic twitter feed covers everything from Bernie Bros to Cautious Conservatives. Amongst all that Warren is the one that is inspring the "would like to have a beer with" style comments.rottenborough said:
Just don't see it myself. She's impressive and is a definite top three or four contender. But out in real america?williamglenn said:
It’s Warren.rottenborough said:
I know who I think can pull in the six packers in PA who deserted Obama for Trump.
Poca oh oh
https://www.yandy.com/Chiefs-Desire-Costume.php0
This discussion has been closed.