politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The final step. Why the leader of the Conservative party does
Comments
-
Boris is the only Tory who can win a majority at the moment and if he does he can then dispense with Patel and the DUP and go for a FTA for GB and backstop referendum in NI.kle4 said:
Yes, but it is why May needed a bigger majority too. Wanting it doesn't make it happen. Needing it doesn't make it happen. And as May tested to destruction you cannot tell one group one thing and another something else without them noticing, and as much as you love Boris and believe in his ability to win a majority how does he campaign for a majority for deal Brexit when that deal will largely be what the Patels of the world insist is dead, and they will viciously fight back against any suggestion they must be overruled by the party getting a majority. Would that not just undermine the claw back of support from BXP, and make dozens of the current MPs mutinious?HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris needs a majority to deliver a Deal Brexit, the WA will never get through otherwise because of the DUP and 10-20 Tory ERG hardliners who are opposed to the WA in principle even without the backstop or the temporary Customs Union removed and about 6 Tory diehard Remainer hardliners who are now basically LDs in all but namekle4 said:
Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.rottenborough said:
Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?IanB2 said:
It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576
Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?
However he has to campaign on a Brexit Deal or No Deal platform to win that election first, only once he wins it can he dispense with them
0 -
Charles said:
You know I’m not a Tory, right? Haven’t been a member since IDS was elected
Just as you don't need to be gay to be a victim of a homophobic attack or black to be a victim of racism, you don't need to be a Tory to be on the wrong end of Toryphobia.
It's the last acceptable refuge of the hater these days.0 -
People that voted for “no deal is better than a bad deal” and “Brexit means Brexit” share part of the blame for this mess.Cyclefree said:
I had assumed you were.Charles said:
You know I’m not a Tory, right? Haven’t been a member since IDS was electedCyclefree said:
No - it is the Tories who need to get a grip. Seriously. You (Tories) are behaving ridiculously. Utterly ridiculously. The more we see of those who are or who have been in Cabinet the more we see people who are ignorant, incompetent and woefully lacking in any talent. We see arrogance and a total lack of concern for those likely to be impacted by a policy (and that is to be polite) which you cannot explain, for which you have no plan and in respect of which your spokesmen are talking verifiable nonsense virtually every single time you open your mouths.Charles said:
Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mudCyclefree said:
This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?
[clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]
For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
You Tories are contemptible in the way you are behaving. You are exhausted, out of ideas, confused, directionless and divided. You are out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people who do worry about the future, about jobs, about their children and their future, about homes and savings. You are destroying what remains of your USP and in your complacency and arrogance think that Corbyn is so much worse that voters will have no option but to choose you. You are so mistaken. You are desperate to escape the trap you've fallen into and are thrashing around. It is pitiful and concerning watching this happen in a country which used to be a by-word for pragmatism and common-sense.
"You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"
I'm tired, yes. But above all I'm furious at the way your wretched party is wilfully gambling with my children's futures. You will not be easily - if ever - forgiven. Not by me anyway.
I mean every word I've written and it is aimed at the Tories - here and elsewhere - who have turned Brexit into their new religion. It is pathetic and idiotic. As is the policy they are now worshipping.0 -
Nope. Still does it on Chrome on Mac.RobD said:
I thought Robert had debugged that issue last week?Theuniondivvie said:
I'm still getting posts saying that Boris as PM is going to work out fine, so yeah...RobD said:Anyone else's PB acting funny? Mine flashes each time I type a letter into the comment box
Worried my computer is about to die....
0 -
His grand plan is to throw his supporters under a bus once elected?HYUFD said:
Boris is the only Tory who can win a majority at the moment and if he does he can then dispense with Patel and the DUP and go for a FTA for GB and backstop referendum in NI.kle4 said:
Yes, but it is why May needed a bigger majority too. Wanting it doesn't make it happen. Needing it doesn't make it happen. And as May tested to destruction you cannot tell one group one thing and another something else without them noticing, and as much as you love Boris and believe in his ability to win a majority how does he campaign for a majority for deal Brexit when that deal will largely be what the Patels of the world insist is dead, and they will viciously fight back against any suggestion they must be overruled by the party getting a majority. Would that not just undermine the claw back of support from BXP, and make dozens of the current MPs mutinious?HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris needs a majority to deliver a Deal Brexit, the WA will never get through otherwise because of the DUP and 10-20 Tory ERG hardliners who are opposed to the WA in principle even without the backstop or the temporary Customs Union removed and about 6 Tory diehard Remainer hardliners who are now basically LDs in all but namekle4 said:
Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.rottenborough said:
Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?IanB2 said:
It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576
Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?
However he has to campaign on a Brexit Deal or No Deal platform to win that election first, only once he wins it can he dispense with them0 -
You sure about that ?HYUFD said:
Boris is the only Tory who can win a majority at the momentkle4 said:
Yes, but it is why May needed a bigger majority too. Wanting it doesn't make it happen. Needing it doesn't make it happen. And as May tested to destruction you cannot tell one group one thing and another something else without them noticing, and as much as you love Boris and believe in his ability to win a majority how does he campaign for a majority for deal Brexit when that deal will largely be what the Patels of the world insist is dead, and they will viciously fight back against any suggestion they must be overruled by the party getting a majority. Would that not just undermine the claw back of support from BXP, and make dozens of the current MPs mutinious?HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris needs a majority to deliver a Deal Brexit, the WA will never get through otherwise because of the DUP and 10-20 Tory ERG hardliners who are opposed to the WA in principle even without the backstop or the temporary Customs Union removed and about 6 Tory diehard Remainer hardliners who are now basically LDs in all but namekle4 said:
Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.rottenborough said:
Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?IanB2 said:
It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576
Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?
2 years of Gove and they would have won by 20 points.0 -
Quit the party then. It's rotting away around you.Big_G_NorthWales said:
My only concern is that there are many conservative members that I totally oppose, but there are many of us who do not like being collectively referred to as you didRoger said:
To put it into context I would prefer Len McClusky as PM rather than Johnson and I thought there was no one I liked less than McCluskyBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no love for Boris but your intolerance does you no favoursRoger said:Laura K just made him seem like a dribbling blobfish and she wasn't even trying. If any Tory member votes for him they're as thick as pig shit.
(Except for HYUFD who is in love)
I hope you accept some of us are just as despairing at the hard brexiteers in our party as you are1 -
Who in their right mind would be using Chrome on a Mac? 🤨rottenborough said:
Nope. Still does it on Chrome on Mac.RobD said:
I thought Robert had debugged that issue last week?Theuniondivvie said:
I'm still getting posts saying that Boris as PM is going to work out fine, so yeah...RobD said:Anyone else's PB acting funny? Mine flashes each time I type a letter into the comment box
Worried my computer is about to die....0 -
Britain doesn't have nuclear codes. PM passes the order (a "Prime Minister's Directive") to the Navy, a signal is sent (from Northwood?), the sub captain gets the keys out of the safe, he unlocks the trigger (a modified handgun trigger), the missile(s) launch, a few minutes later instant sunshine.Jonathan said:
Don’t give a toddler the nuclear codes.Charles said:
One of his key backers told me a few months ago that dealing with Boris is like “wrangling a toddler”nico67 said:So what Johnson said about Muslim women and flag waving picanninies was really what’s going on in his head . Oh dear !
Do we add the Libya comments on clearing up the corpses to make a beach resort , gay marriage as bestiality and the rest aswell !
I can see why his handlers or should they be called babysitters want to keep him away from the cameras and any debate .
The more he talks the worse it gets !0 -
I doGallowgate said:
Who in their right mind would be using Chrome on a Mac? 🤨rottenborough said:
Nope. Still does it on Chrome on Mac.RobD said:
I thought Robert had debugged that issue last week?Theuniondivvie said:
I'm still getting posts saying that Boris as PM is going to work out fine, so yeah...RobD said:Anyone else's PB acting funny? Mine flashes each time I type a letter into the comment box
Worried my computer is about to die....
0 -
You're not really selling this plan when it relies on a lot of people at the least smart enough to know he would do that, and still expet they will play ball up until that point. And relies on Boris essentially lying all this time, but for that to be a good thing.HYUFD said:
Boris is the only Tory who can win a majority at the moment and if he does he can then dispense with Patel and the DUP and go for a FTA for GB and backstop referendum in NI.kle4 said:
Yes, but it is why May needed a bigger majority too. Wanting it doesn't make it happen. Needing it doesn't make it happen. And as May tested to destruction you cannot tell one group one thing and another something else without them noticing, and as much as you love Boris and believe in his ability to win a majority how does he campaign for a majority for deal Brexit when that deal will largely be what the Patels of the world insist is dead, and they will viciously fight back against any suggestion they must be overruled by the party getting a majority. Would that not just undermine the claw back of support from BXP, and make dozens of the current MPs mutinious?HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris needs a majority to deliver a Deal Brexit, the WA will never get through otherwise because of the DUP and 10-20 Tory ERG hardliners who are opposed to the WA in principle even without the backstop or the temporary Customs Union removed and about 6 Tory diehard Remainer hardliners who are now basically LDs in all but namekle4 said:
Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.rottenborough said:
Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?IanB2 said:
It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576
Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?
However he has to campaign on a Brexit Deal or No Deal platform to win that election first, only once he wins it can he dispense with them0 -
It’s a bloated memory and battery hog. Safari is far superior.RobD said:
I doGallowgate said:
Who in their right mind would be using Chrome on a Mac? 🤨rottenborough said:
Nope. Still does it on Chrome on Mac.RobD said:
I thought Robert had debugged that issue last week?Theuniondivvie said:
I'm still getting posts saying that Boris as PM is going to work out fine, so yeah...RobD said:Anyone else's PB acting funny? Mine flashes each time I type a letter into the comment box
Worried my computer is about to die....0 -
Ah I am, that's good news... at least the laptop is not dying.rottenborough said:
I have that.RobD said:Anyone else's PB acting funny? Mine flashes each time I type a letter into the comment box
Worried my computer is about to die....
Are you using Chrome?
I think it is a Chrome recent update issue (I am now viewing on Firefox).0 -
Do we have any analysis of the Brexit view of wanna be MPs in the dozen or more of Tory marginals Boris needs?HYUFD said:
Boris is the only Tory who can win a majority at the moment and if he does he can then dispense with Patel and the DUP and go for a FTA for GB and backstop referendum in NI.kle4 said:
Yes, but it is why May needed a bigger majority too. Wanting it doesn't make it happen. Needing it doesn't make it happen. And as May tested to destruction you cannot tell one group one thing and another something else without them noticing, and as much as you love Boris and believe in his ability to win a majority how does he campaign for a majority for deal Brexit when that deal will largely be what the Patels of the world insist is dead, and they will viciously fight back against any suggestion they must be overruled by the party getting a majority. Would that not just undermine the claw back of support from BXP, and make dozens of the current MPs mutinious?HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris needs a majority to deliver a Deal Brexit, the WA will never get through otherwise because of the DUP and 10-20 Tory ERG hardliners who are opposed to the WA in principle even without the backstop or the temporary Customs Union removed and about 6 Tory diehard Remainer hardliners who are now basically LDs in all but namekle4 said:
Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.rottenborough said:
Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?IanB2 said:
It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576
Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?
However he has to campaign on a Brexit Deal or No Deal platform to win that election first, only once he wins it can he dispense with them
There is no point winning a majority if the MPs who take you over the line are all ERG whackos.0 -
Thankfully I have a ton of ram on this thingGallowgate said:
It’s a bloated memory and battery hog. Safari is far superior.RobD said:
I doGallowgate said:
Who in their right mind would be using Chrome on a Mac? 🤨rottenborough said:
Nope. Still does it on Chrome on Mac.RobD said:
I thought Robert had debugged that issue last week?Theuniondivvie said:
I'm still getting posts saying that Boris as PM is going to work out fine, so yeah...RobD said:Anyone else's PB acting funny? Mine flashes each time I type a letter into the comment box
Worried my computer is about to die.... 0 -
So in 25 working days in Parliament they’re going to get through trade and customs bills, immigration , the miracle agreement Bozo makes going through both the Commons and the Lords and still time to put out the bunting arrange the fireworks and get ready for Independence Day !0
-
Percentage wise only about 5% of Tory MPs are ERG whackos who did not even vote for MV3 and I suspect the same holds for Tory candidatesrottenborough said:
Do we have any analysis of the Brexit view of wanna be MPs in the dozen or more of Tory marginals Boris needs?HYUFD said:
Boris is the only Tory who can win a majority at the moment and if he does he can then dispense with Patel and the DUP and go for a FTA for GB and backstop referendum in NI.kle4 said:
Yes, but it is why May needed a bigger majority too. Wanting it doesn't make it happen. Needing it doesn't make it tinious?HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris needs a majority to deliver a Deal Brexit, the WA will never get through otherwise because of the DUP and 10-20 Tory ERG hardliners who are opposed to the WA in principle even without the backstop or the temporary Customs Union removed and about 6 Tory diehard Remainer hardliners who are now basically LDs in all but namekle4 said:
Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.rottenborough said:
Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?IanB2 said:
It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576
Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?
However he has to campaign on a Brexit Deal or No Deal platform to win that election first, only once he wins it can he dispense with them
There is no point winning a majority if the MPs who take you over the line are all ERG whackos.0 -
He doesn't look very well.williamglenn said:
According the Gordon Brown "the United Kingdom is in mortal danger".Theuniondivvie said:I'm still getting posts saying that Boris as PM is going to work out fine, so yeah...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7176697/Former-Prime-Minister-GORDON-BROWN-fears-antagonistic-nationalism-mean-end-United-Kingdom.html
Amused that he's moved from 'how dare the mad Nats assume that they can keep the UK pound' to 'the mad Nats want to dispense with the UK pound'. Ye cannae win wi some folk.0 -
If Boris does actually become PM, Brexit will burn him up like the last two PMs.0
-
And on the evidence of the past week Boris fabled campaign skills are indeed just fables. He cowers in a corner refusing to engage with his opponents, a minor story about his personal life dominates the headlines for days on end and when he does emerge from his bunker he is unable to answer even the most obvious and predictable questions about his policies. And the Tories laud his campaigning skills and see him as a sure fire winner.....kle4 said:
Yes, but it is why May needed a bigger majority too. Wanting it doesn't make it happen. Needing it doesn't make it happen. And as May tested to destruction you cannot tell one group one thing and another something else without them noticing, and as much as you love Boris and believe in his ability to win a majority how does he campaign for a majority for deal Brexit when that deal will largely be what the Patels of the world insist is dead, and they will viciously fight back against any suggestion they must be overruled by the party getting a majority. Would that not just undermine the claw back of support from BXP, and make dozens of the current MPs mutinious?HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris needs a majority to deliver a Deal Brexit, the WA will never get through otherwise because of the DUP and 10-20 Tory ERG hardliners who are opposed to the WA in principle even without the backstop or the temporary Customs Union removed and about 6 Tory diehard Remainer hardliners who are now basically LDs in all but namekle4 said:
Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.rottenborough said:
Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?IanB2 said:
It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576
Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?0 -
No just the ultra diehards who were stupid enough to back Boris rather than press Steve Baker or Priti Patel to stand or even to vote for Esther McVey who has now said the WA is dead when they knew full well Boris voted for the WA at MV3 unlike Baker and PatelGallowgate said:
His grand plan is to throw his supporters under a bus once elected?HYUFD said:
Boris is the only Tory who y once he wins it can he dispense with themkle4 said:
Yes, but it is why May needed a bigger majority too. Wanting it doesn't make it happen. Needing it doesn't make it happen. And as May tested to destruction you cannot tell one group one thing and another something else without them noticing, and as much as you love Boris and believe in his ability to win a majority how does he campaign for a majority for deal Brexit when that deal will largely be what the Patels of the world insist is dead, and they will viciously fight back against any suggestion they must be overruled by the party getting a majority. Would that not just undermine the claw back of support from BXP, and make dozens of the current MPs mutinious?HYUFD said:
Which is why Boris needs a majority to deliver a Deal Brexit, the WA will never get through otherwise because of the DUP and 10-20 Tory ERG hardliners who are opposed to the WA in principle even without the backstop or the temporary Customs Union removed and about 6 Tory diehard Remainer hardliners who are now basically LDs in all but namekle4 said:
Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.rottenborough said:
Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?IanB2 said:
It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576
Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?0 -
Boris is just a straight Gordon Brown.0
-
Without the strategic or historical sense.TGOHF said:Boris is just a straight Gordon Brown.
0 -
Brexit sucks everything into its maw.rottenborough said:If Boris does actually become PM, Brexit will burn him up like the last two PMs.
0 -
Trying to co-opt the language of hard and soft Brexit seems to be the latest thing. He's clearly making it up as there is no such thing as the UK single market and customs union.Theuniondivvie said:
He doesn't look very well.williamglenn said:
According the Gordon Brown "the United Kingdom is in mortal danger".Theuniondivvie said:I'm still getting posts saying that Boris as PM is going to work out fine, so yeah...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7176697/Former-Prime-Minister-GORDON-BROWN-fears-antagonistic-nationalism-mean-end-United-Kingdom.html
Amused that he's moved from 'how dare the mad Nats assume that they can keep the UK pound' to 'the mad Nats want to dispense with the UK pound'. Ye cannae win wi some folk.
For just as all political attention has been fixated on Britain moving from a soft Brexit to a hard Brexit, the Scottish nationalists have moved — almost unnoticed — from demanding a soft form of separation to demanding a hard, far more extreme, type.
In the 2014 Scottish referendum, the nationalists wanted Scotland to leave the UK political union — yet keep the UK pound and stay inside the UK single market and customs union.0 -
Me too 🤯RobD said:
I doGallowgate said:
Who in their right mind would be using Chrome on a Mac? 🤨rottenborough said:
Nope. Still does it on Chrome on Mac.RobD said:
I thought Robert had debugged that issue last week?Theuniondivvie said:
I'm still getting posts saying that Boris as PM is going to work out fine, so yeah...RobD said:Anyone else's PB acting funny? Mine flashes each time I type a letter into the comment box
Worried my computer is about to die....0 -
0
-
Why not?Charles said:
Me too 🤯RobD said:
I doGallowgate said:
Who in their right mind would be using Chrome on a Mac? 🤨rottenborough said:
Nope. Still does it on Chrome on Mac.RobD said:
I thought Robert had debugged that issue last week?Theuniondivvie said:
I'm still getting posts saying that Boris as PM is going to work out fine, so yeah...RobD said:Anyone else's PB acting funny? Mine flashes each time I type a letter into the comment box
Worried my computer is about to die....
Safari has issues. For example, on PB site, it leaves black dots on LHS all over the place.0 -
It’s like a gaping black hole .Gardenwalker said:
Brexit sucks everything into its maw.rottenborough said:If Boris does actually become PM, Brexit will burn him up like the last two PMs.
Can’t we just forget the whole thing !1 -
He will be out of office before the end of the year.rottenborough said:If Boris does actually become PM, Brexit will burn him up like the last two PMs.
0 -
Some of us can emigrate.nico67 said:
It’s like a gaping black hole .Gardenwalker said:
Brexit sucks everything into its maw.rottenborough said:If Boris does actually become PM, Brexit will burn him up like the last two PMs.
Can’t we just forget the whole thing !0 -
Boris actually believes in Brexit unlike the last two PMs and will actually commit to deliver it, Deal or No Dealrottenborough said:If Boris does actually become PM, Brexit will burn him up like the last two PMs.
-1 -
Yaaaaawwwnn.Cyclefree said:
No - it is the Tories who need to get a grip. Seriously. You (Tories) are behaving ridiculously. Utterly ridiculously. The more we see of those who are or who have been in Cabinet the more we see people who are ignorant, incompetent and woefully lacking in any talent. We see arrogance and a total lack of concern for those likely to be impacted by a policy (and that is to be polite) which you cannot explain, for which you have no plan and in respect of which your spokesmen are talking verifiable nonsense virtually every single time you open your mouths.Charles said:
Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mudCyclefree said:
This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?
[clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]
For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
You Tories are contemptible in the way you are behaving. You are exhausted, out of ideas, confused, directionless and divided. You are out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people who do worry about the future, about jobs, about their children and their future, about homes and savings. You are destroying what remains of your USP and in your complacency and arrogance think that Corbyn is so much worse that voters will have no option but to choose you. You are so mistaken. You are desperate to escape the trap you've fallen into and are thrashing around. It is pitiful and concerning watching this happen in a country which used to be a by-word for pragmatism and common-sense.
"You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"
I'm tired, yes. But above all I'm furious at the way your wretched party is wilfully gambling with my children's futures. You will not be easily - if ever - forgiven. Not by me anyway.
Yet another Cyclefree rant.1 -
0
-
If Boris does Brexit then gets turfed out it will probably be worth him doing such a kamikazi approach.HYUFD said:
Boris actually believes in Brexit unlike the last two PMs and will actually commit to deliver it, Deal or No Dealrottenborough said:If Boris does actually become PM, Brexit will burn him up like the last two PMs.
0 -
Now there's a silver lining...rottenborough said:If Boris does actually become PM, Brexit will burn him up like the last two PMs.
1 -
I’m busy arranging it ! My advice get off the Millennium Falcon before the Death Star tractor beam kicks in! 4 months to escape !Gardenwalker said:
Some of us can emigrate.nico67 said:
It’s like a gaping black hole .Gardenwalker said:
Brexit sucks everything into its maw.rottenborough said:If Boris does actually become PM, Brexit will burn him up like the last two PMs.
Can’t we just forget the whole thing !0 -
0
-
It's dead, Big G. It's over. These people don't give up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
My only concern is that there are many conservative members that I totally oppose, but there are many of us who do not like being collectively referred to as you didRoger said:
To put it into context I would prefer Len McClusky as PM rather than Johnson and I thought there was no one I liked less than McCluskyBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no love for Boris but your intolerance does you no favoursRoger said:Laura K just made him seem like a dribbling blobfish and she wasn't even trying. If any Tory member votes for him they're as thick as pig shit.
(Except for HYUFD who is in love)
I hope you accept some of us are just as despairing at the hard brexiteers in our party as you are
Labour may, eventually, get rid of Corbyn. It may return to a Miliband type or even, 20 years from now, a Blair.
But the Conservative Party isn't going to get rid of the hard Brexiteers. It will simply become the party of Little Englanders. There are plenty of "shire Tories" who, though they would never count themselves as Farageists, will be delighted with Boris saying tally-ho to WTO. They are the members who will vote for him as leader. If his peccadillos then bring him down (or, more likely, London's electoral geography), they'll say "ah well" and vote for someone with even less ballot-box appeal.
The Conservative Party needs a drubbing at the polls to force a period of self-reflection and a purging of the old guard. It isn't going to get that, because its opposition is Corbyn, who couldn't drub a weed in his allotment. It will continue spiralling into extremism and irrelevance.
It's over.1 -
"Bring 'em on! I'd prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around!"nico67 said:
I’m busy arranging it ! My advice get off the Millennium Falcon before the Death Star tractor beam kicks in! 4 months to escape !Gardenwalker said:
Some of us can emigrate.nico67 said:
It’s like a gaping black hole .Gardenwalker said:
Brexit sucks everything into its maw.rottenborough said:If Boris does actually become PM, Brexit will burn him up like the last two PMs.
Can’t we just forget the whole thing !
0 -
Awful press for Bozza. Even the Telegraph not convinced.
Lynton's deceased cat better be a bloody heavy weight tomorrow.
0 -
Trump sounds surprisingly good as a cockney.Gardenwalker said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cA0NM5RAY00 -
The question is when they will show their hand. 23rd July or 5th September?TGOHF said:Time for an election.
https://twitter.com/carolewalkercw/status/1143275140266020864?s=21
Or perhaps we should just ask when Mike is on holiday?0 -
The Conservatives are a constant. Go on, Boris, prove me wrong!0
-
I disagree... I'm staying and if brexit happens and if its shite then the headbangers will slink away and even better if Boris and ERG have to carry the can, rather than sit on the sidelines doing easy potshots with no responsibility...El_Capitano said:
It's dead, Big G. It's over. These people don't give up.Big_G_NorthWales said:
My only concern is that there are many conservative members that I totally oppose, but there are many of us who do not like being collectively referred to as you didRoger said:
To put it into context I would prefer Len McClusky as PM rather than Johnson and I thought there was no one I liked less than McCluskyBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no love for Boris but your intolerance does you no favoursRoger said:Laura K just made him seem like a dribbling blobfish and she wasn't even trying. If any Tory member votes for him they're as thick as pig shit.
(Except for HYUFD who is in love)
I hope you accept some of us are just as despairing at the hard brexiteers in our party as you are
Labour may, eventually, get rid of Corbyn. It may return to a Miliband type or even, 20 years from now, a Blair.
But the Conservative Party isn't going to get rid of the hard Brexiteers. It will simply become the party of Little Englanders. There are plenty of "shire Tories" who, though they would never count themselves as Farageists, will be delighted with Boris saying tally-ho to WTO. They are the members who will vote for him as leader. If his peccadillos then bring him down (or, more likely, London's electoral geography), they'll say "ah well" and vote for someone with even less ballot-box appeal.
The Conservative Party needs a drubbing at the polls to force a period of self-reflection and a purging of the old guard. It isn't going to get that, because its opposition is Corbyn, who couldn't drub a weed in his allotment. It will continue spiralling into extremism and irrelevance.
It's over.0 -
0
-
Well leaving aside the affects of brexit, wait til the marxists get in .... then we really will be in the shit.Cyclefree said:
Yes it can - and do so in a pretty rubbish way. And having lived through it in the past I don't really want to repeat the experience or have my children endure it.Floater said:Cyclefree said:I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.
And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.
And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.
This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?
Life will go on you know.0 -
Drivel from Johnson. He doesn't even have a coherent position that you might take issue with. It's just a stream of words to fill a space and waste everyone's time.rottenborough said:0
-
Rees-Mogg really has revealed himself to be a big old crybaby, hasn't he? I remember when his mask slipped after the no confidence vote in May and he started inventing constitutional norms and whinging about the result (whether one thinks the result was a positive one or not), and now he acts like how dare people try to stop the destined prophet of Brexit from doing what he wants. I've no time for left wing hate mobs (or right wing hate mobs for that matter), but given how he and those like him have been among the most difficult in all of this, have shot themselves inthe foot repeatedly, he really comes off as more than a little pathetic.rottenborough said:Wow! Boris is now a victim.
https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1143272225480593408
Boris has more dignity than Rees-Mogg - there's a reason the former actually managed to make it to high office, for however long. Like him or loathe him there's more to him than a posh accent and an ill fitting suit.0 -
Boris believes in Boris ! That’s it!HYUFD said:
Boris actually believes in Brexit unlike the last two PMs and will actually commit to deliver it, Deal or No Dealrottenborough said:If Boris does actually become PM, Brexit will burn him up like the last two PMs.
0 -
Yep.FF43 said:Drivel from Johnson. He doesn't even have a coherent position that you might take issue with. It's just a stream of words to fill a space and waste everyone's time.
rottenborough said:
His base can't see it though.0 -
The brexiteers, particularly the no-dealers, are making the prospect of marxists in power ever more likely. They are too stupid to see this.Floater said:
Well leaving aside the affects of brexit, wait til the marxists get in .... then we really will be in the shit.Cyclefree said:
Yes it can - and do so in a pretty rubbish way. And having lived through it in the past I don't really want to repeat the experience or have my children endure it.Floater said:Cyclefree said:I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.
And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.
And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.
This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?
Life will go on you know.0 -
That seems like the right strategy given that he has to get past the membership of the Conservative Party, who realistically aren't going to vote for anything coherent and non-disastrous. Taking a coherent position that appealed to these people would be bad, to put it mildly.FF43 said:Drivel from Johnson. He doesn't even have a coherent position that you might take issue with. It's just a stream of words to fill a space and waste everyone's time.
0 -
Oh, bless...
"Jeremy Hunt has announced plans for £15 billion of extra defence spending as he took advantage of Boris Johnson’s troubles to forge ahead with policy announcements."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/24/jeremy-hunt-pledges-extra-15bn-defence-ensure-britain-can-guard/0 -
I'd say you were wrong about them not realising it, and that they just don't care, but these are the people who openly admitted through their actions in voting for MV3 (I exclude the spartans) the very obvious fact which they had been told many many times, that it might be that or no Brexit.Cyclefree said:
The brexiteers, particularly the no-dealers, are making the prospect of marxists in power ever more likely. They are too stupid to see this.Floater said:
Well leaving aside the affects of brexit, wait til the marxists get in .... then we really will be in the shit.Cyclefree said:
Yes it can - and do so in a pretty rubbish way. And having lived through it in the past I don't really want to repeat the experience or have my children endure it.Floater said:Cyclefree said:I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.
And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.
And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.
This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?
Life will go on you know.
That really did break me, that moment. That people who claimed to believe in Brexit, and obviously think of themselves as very bright, finally admitted right at the end that what they had been told, that the WA was Brexit, and that it might be the only Brexit they could get, was true. And therefore that they had been wrong for months and months and months.
Whether one thinks they are wrong or not, at least spartans and the philip thompsons of the world believed the WA was not really Brexit. Boris and JRM and the others accept that it was, but still did not notice it until it was too late. And they admit that!0 -
Cheers to all re LBJ.
Original quote as according to Caro appears to be "You've learned to count since I left up there," as said to Sen. Harry Byrd (23 Jan 1964 and re vote management over tax cuts and civil rights).
But if you search for "first rule of politics lbj" or "rule of politics count" then you get a stream of UK political journalism only. So the quote seems to have been transmuted in UK political discussion in a way it has not in America, and at some point I suspect a UK political figure or journalist has misquoted and everyone else has copied. The "rule of politics" part is clearly an addition, though "learn to count" is very close to the spirit of the original.0 -
I do love the name Annunziata.-1
-
To you maybe . I have zero time for Corbyn but would rather live in a country with him as PM than a right wing capitalism on steroids cesspit under a bunch of ERG nutjobs holding a new PM as hostage .Floater said:
Well leaving aside the affects of brexit, wait til the marxists get in .... then we really will be in the shit.Cyclefree said:
Yes it can - and do so in a pretty rubbish way. And having lived through it in the past I don't really want to repeat the experience or have my children endure it.Floater said:Cyclefree said:I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.
And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.
And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.
This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?
Life will go on you know.0 -
That won't work - it means that the default is no PM rather than having a PM at all times, albeit one that at times is history. Your suggestion would bring even more chaos to the situation.edmundintokyo said:Parliament should all get together right now and pass a law changing the way PMs get chosen so Parliament changes the PM by voting for a new one, instead of this ridiculous roundabout thing where unnamed advisors take soundings and communicate to The Queen the general vibe of what parliament would might do if it had a chance to vote against them.
The whole "best placed to command the confidence of the House" thing is a horrible fudge, but it's less bad than any of the alternatives.0 -
There's more than a whiff of 2017 about all this. Time to top up on Jegzy Hunt.0
-
Bung to the Americans.rottenborough said:Oh, bless...
"Jeremy Hunt has announced plans for £15 billion of extra defence spending as he took advantage of Boris Johnson’s troubles to forge ahead with policy announcements."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/24/jeremy-hunt-pledges-extra-15bn-defence-ensure-britain-can-guard/0 -
Liz Truss auditioning for a part in Boris's first cabinet (She's hoping for chief whip)
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/05/02/11/12997944-6984377-image-a-2_1556791577546.jpg0 -
I thought Boris came across quite well in his interview with Laura?0
-
What I suggested was that you don't remove the previous PM until you vote in a new one, so no, the default isn't no PM unless the previous PM spontaneously combusts. Spontaneous combustion is better handled by having a deputy and/or established line of succession.El_Sid said:
That won't work - it means that the default is no PM rather than having a PM at all times, albeit one that at times is history. Your suggestion would bring even more chaos to the situation.edmundintokyo said:Parliament should all get together right now and pass a law changing the way PMs get chosen so Parliament changes the PM by voting for a new one, instead of this ridiculous roundabout thing where unnamed advisors take soundings and communicate to The Queen the general vibe of what parliament would might do if it had a chance to vote against them.
The whole "best placed to command the confidence of the House" thing is a horrible fudge, but it's less bad than any of the alternatives.0 -
Point of order....there is some doubt whether Philip Thompson is of this world.....kle4 said:
I'd say you were wrong about them not realising it, and that they just don't care, but these are the people who openly admitted through their actions in voting for MV3 (I exclude the spartans) the very obvious fact which they had been told many many times, that it might be that or no Brexit.Cyclefree said:
The brexiteers, particularly the no-dealers, are making the prospect of marxists in power ever more likely. They are too stupid to see this.Floater said:
Well leaving aside the affects of brexit, wait til the marxists get in .... then we really will be in the shit.Cyclefree said:
Yes it can - and do so in a pretty rubbish way. And having lived through it in the past I don't really want to repeat the experience or have my children endure it.Floater said:Cyclefree said:I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.
And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.
And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.
This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?
Life will go on you know.
That really did break me, that moment. That people who claimed to believe in Brexit, and obviously think of themselves as very bright, finally admitted right at the end that what they had been told, that the WA was Brexit, and that it might be the only Brexit they could get, was true. And therefore that they had been wrong for months and months and months.
Whether one thinks they are wrong or not, at least spartans and the philip thompsons of the world believed the WA was not really Brexit. Boris and JRM and the others accept that it was, but still did not notice it until it was too late. And they admit that!0 -
I have changed my mind. I thought Johnson had a Machiavellian plan to exasperate the EU so much that they throw us out without a deal, which he could then blame them for. There would be some sense to that evil plan but now I think Johnson a genuine fantasist. The Comical Ali of Brexit.edmundintokyo said:
That seems like the right strategy given that he has to get past the membership of the Conservative Party, who realistically aren't going to vote for anything coherent and non-disastrous. Taking a coherent position that appealed to these people would be bad, to put it mildly.FF43 said:Drivel from Johnson. He doesn't even have a coherent position that you might take issue with. It's just a stream of words to fill a space and waste everyone's time.
We will see.0 -
Just watched the interview. The man is a fuckwits fuckwit.FF43 said:Drivel from Johnson. He doesn't even have a coherent position that you might take issue with. It's just a stream of words to fill a space and waste everyone's time.
rottenborough said:
The thing is being a fuckwit is that it is like being dead, it is only a problem for other people. Fuckwits don't know that they are fuckwits.
0 -
Tad harsh. Last I checked I am.Roger said:
Point of order....there is some doubt whether Philip Thompson is of this world.....kle4 said:
I'd say you were wrong about them not realising it, and that they just don't care, but these are the people who openly admitted through their actions in voting for MV3 (I exclude the spartans) the very obvious fact which they had been told many many times, that it might be that or no Brexit.
That really did break me, that moment. That people who claimed to believe in Brexit, and obviously think of themselves as very bright, finally admitted right at the end that what they had been told, that the WA was Brexit, and that it might be the only Brexit they could get, was true. And therefore that they had been wrong for months and months and months.
Whether one thinks they are wrong or not, at least spartans and the philip thompsons of the world believed the WA was not really Brexit. Boris and JRM and the others accept that it was, but still did not notice it until it was too late. And they admit that!
My objection to the WA is not that it is "not Brexit". My objection is that it is "not democratic". Big difference.
I have a philosophical objection to terminating democracy under any circumstances.0 -
You were obviously drinking or had extremely low expectations! . Rather than trash the whole thing I already said earlier , I have no problem with him not wanting to talk about his private life .GIN1138 said:I thought Boris came across quite well in his interview with Laura?
As for the rest of the interview it was tragic.0 -
Al long as he doesn't expect to be fighting the next election as a Conservative candidate.TGOHF said:Time for an election.
https://twitter.com/carolewalkercw/status/1143275140266020864?s=210 -
Is there a post for 'Stupid Trouser Wearer'?Roger said:Liz Truss auditioning for a part in Boris's first cabinet (She's hoping for chief whip)
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/05/02/11/12997944-6984377-image-a-2_1556791577546.jpg
Pretty sure Henry VIII had such a post.0 -
Brave.Danny565 said:There's more than a whiff of 2017 about all this. Time to top up on Jegzy Hunt.
0 -
Xtrain said:
As long as he doesn't expect to be fighting the next election as a Conservative candidate.TGOHF said:Time for an election.
https://twitter.com/carolewalkercw/status/1143275140266020864?s=210 -
-
Not really. I think he has very poor media strategy, too much hypocrisy and some very strange language about what is going on in his head!GIN1138 said:I thought Boris came across quite well in his interview with Laura?
Boris does not come across as being a potential PM. Indeed people often refer to polishing a turd. Well Boris has no shine: He is just shit!0 -
The thing is, all parties have a limited period in government before they're exhausted. At that point, it's in their and the country's interest they have a period in opposition to sort themselves out. The Tories had it in 1992, which was an unwise election to win. Labour had it in 2010, and were lucky not to win that - we were completeley out of ideas, and running only on "Don't let the Tories in". I was a candidate in 2010, and nearly held my seat against the swing, but I can't remember a single positive argument.Cyclefree said:
The brexiteers, particularly the no-dealers, are making the prospect of marxists in power ever more likely. They are too stupid to see this.
And the Tories have it now, big time. It's obvious to everyone that they're worn out, and it's only "we must achiebve Brexit" and "we mustn't let Corbyn in" that is keeping them going at all.
But at some point, unless the Tories hope to rule forever, there will be a period of left-wing government. Corbyn, dependent on LibDems and SNP, is going to be a strictly limited experiment for now. That shouldn't be the end of the world for the Tories - on the contrary, if it's as bad as they think, they will be elected back next time. Perhaps what they really worry about is that it won't be as bad as they predict?0 -
Seriously are you pissed?kle4 said:
Rees-Mogg really has revealed himself to be a big old crybaby, hasn't he? I remember when his mask slipped after the no confidence vote in May and he started inventing constitutional norms and whinging about the result (whether one thinks the result was a positive one or not), and now he acts like how dare people try to stop the destined prophet of Brexit from doing what he wants. I've no time for left wing hate mobs (or right wing hate mobs for that matter), but given how he and those like him have been among the most difficult in all of this, have shot themselves inthe foot repeatedly, he really comes off as more than a little pathetic.rottenborough said:Wow! Boris is now a victim.
https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1143272225480593408
Boris has more dignity than Rees-Mogg - there's a reason the former actually managed to make it to high office, for however long. Like him or loathe him there's more to him than a posh accent and an ill fitting suit.0 -
I have said all along there are two very easy ways to make the backstop democratic.
Option 1. Let the people of NI choose to join it, let them at periodic elections continue to choose to remain in it and give them the right to terminate it at a time of their choosing. Not controlled by London, Dublin, Strasbourg, Brussels or anywhere else but the voters of Northern Ireland.
Option 2: Keep the backstop as indefinite but for its duration the voters of NI should continue to be represented at all levels of the EU. They should keep their MEPs with full voting rights and for the duration of the backstop Arlene Foster (or her successor) should take the place of the UK Prime Minister in the European Council with full rights including the right of veto.
Terminating democracy and not giving voters a choice is not a valid option. No matter what level of inconvenience or even death may be the result of not terminating democracy.0 -
There are still situations when the PM will be removed - death/incapacity whilst in office, or standing down at an election - but a hung Parliament is unable to make a positive decision to elect a successor. Having a softer requirement of "best placed to command the confidence of the House" is far from ideal, but would mean that at least _somebody_ was in No 10.edmundintokyo said:
What I suggested was that you don't remove the previous PM until you vote in a new one, so no, the default isn't no PM unless the previous PM spontaneously combusts. Spontaneous combustion is better handled by having a deputy and/or established line of succession.El_Sid said:
That won't work - it means that the default is no PM rather than having a PM at all times, albeit one that at times is history. Your suggestion would bring even more chaos to the situation.edmundintokyo said:Parliament should all get together right now and pass a law changing the way PMs get chosen so Parliament changes the PM by voting for a new one, instead of this ridiculous roundabout thing where unnamed advisors take soundings and communicate to The Queen the general vibe of what parliament would might do if it had a chance to vote against them.
The whole "best placed to command the confidence of the House" thing is a horrible fudge, but it's less bad than any of the alternatives.0 -
Yes. I do remember some Tories confidently asserting they'd be back next time in 97. A Corbyn government reliant on SNP and LDs would be a very different beast. PR, for a start, would be a serious possibility.NickPalmer said:
The thing is, all parties have a limited period in government before they're exhausted. At that point, it's in their and the country's interest they have a period in opposition to sort themselves out. The Tories had it in 1992, which was an unwise election to win. Labour had it in 2010, and were lucky not to win that - we were completeley out of ideas, and running only on "Don't let the Tories in". I was a candidate in 2010, and nearly held my seat against the swing, but I can't remember a single positive argument.Cyclefree said:
The brexiteers, particularly the no-dealers, are making the prospect of marxists in power ever more likely. They are too stupid to see this.
And the Tories have it now, big time. It's obvious to everyone that they're worn out, and it's only "we must achiebve Brexit" and "we mustn't let Corbyn in" that is keeping them going at all.
But at some point, unless the Tories hope to rule forever, there will be a period of left-wing government. Corbyn, dependent on LibDems and SNP, is going to be a strictly limited experiment for now. That shouldn't be the end of the world for the Tories - on the contrary, if it's as bad as they think, they will be elected back next time. Perhaps what they really worry about is that it won't be as bad as they predict?1 -
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1143270827384877056
Have you spent all the fees from Iranian TV Jezza? Or do you have a few quid left in the old bank account?0 -
We're at the point now where Boris only has to walk down the street and everyone has an attack of the vapors and the whole world falls apart...Roger said:
Yes of course he did.....time for your lie down. Nurse will be with you in a minute.GIN1138 said:I thought Boris came across quite well in his interview with Laura?
The selectoarte will be very pleased with what he had to say here IMO but as ever time will tell.0 -
Presumably would have it like the speaker vote where there are candidates and the lowest vote eliminated until you get to one left who wins.El_Sid said:
There are still situations when the PM will be removed - death/incapacity whilst in office, or standing down at an election - but a hung Parliament is unable to make a positive decision to elect a successor. Having a softer requirement of "best placed to command the confidence of the House" is far from ideal, but would mean that at least _somebody_ was in No 10.edmundintokyo said:
What I suggested was that you don't remove the previous PM until you vote in a new one, so no, the default isn't no PM unless the previous PM spontaneously combusts. Spontaneous combustion is better handled by having a deputy and/or established line of succession.El_Sid said:
That won't work - it means that the default is no PM rather than having a PM at all times, albeit one that at times is history. Your suggestion would bring even more chaos to the situation.edmundintokyo said:Parliament should all get together right now and pass a law changing the way PMs get chosen so Parliament changes the PM by voting for a new one, instead of this ridiculous roundabout thing where unnamed advisors take soundings and communicate to The Queen the general vibe of what parliament would might do if it had a chance to vote against them.
The whole "best placed to command the confidence of the House" thing is a horrible fudge, but it's less bad than any of the alternatives.0 -
They had to say that though as it would depress their supporters. I am aware of senior politicians saying publically they can win when their party machine is only targeting enough seats for them to be in opposition and suffering a very heavy defeat. If only voters realised what really goes on!dixiedean said:
Yes. I do remember some Tories confidently asserting they'd be back next time in 97. A Corbyn government reliant on SNP and LDs would be a very different beast. PR, for a start, would be a serious possibility.NickPalmer said:
The thing is, all parties have a limited period in government before they're exhausted. At that point, it's in their and the country's interest they have a period in opposition to sort themselves out. The Tories had it in 1992, which was an unwise election to win. Labour had it in 2010, and were lucky not to win that - we were completeley out of ideas, and running only on "Don't let the Tories in". I was a candidate in 2010, and nearly held my seat against the swing, but I can't remember a single positive argument.Cyclefree said:
The brexiteers, particularly the no-dealers, are making the prospect of marxists in power ever more likely. They are too stupid to see this.
And the Tories have it now, big time. It's obvious to everyone that they're worn out, and it's only "we must achiebve Brexit" and "we mustn't let Corbyn in" that is keeping them going at all.
But at some point, unless the Tories hope to rule forever, there will be a period of left-wing government. Corbyn, dependent on LibDems and SNP, is going to be a strictly limited experiment for now. That shouldn't be the end of the world for the Tories - on the contrary, if it's as bad as they think, they will be elected back next time. Perhaps what they really worry about is that it won't be as bad as they predict?0 -
The problem at the moment is that normal political rules - mess up and get thrown out on your ear - don't necessarily seem to apply because the polarisation of the electorate means that the voters have priorities other than competence.NickPalmer said:Corbyn, dependent on LibDems and SNP, is going to be a strictly limited experiment for now. That shouldn't be the end of the world for the Tories - on the contrary, if it's as bad as they think, they will be elected back next time. Perhaps what they really worry about is that it won't be as bad as they predict?
So, from a Tory perspective the nightmare scenario is that Corbyn gets into power, it's really truly awful, but Corbyn finds enough wedge issues to keep his voters onside and stays in power.0 -
No sensible person gives a shit about Irish backstops except completely bonkers Tories with nothing interesting to occupy their minds. Why not go to an art galley or even a film. Have you any idea how long it is since the Palestinians had any say over their governance at all? Go and demontrate for them. It actually affects their lives.Philip_Thompson said:I have said all along there are two very easy ways to make the backstop democratic.
Option 1. Let the people of NI choose to join it, let them at periodic elections continue to choose to remain in it and give them the right to terminate it at a time of their choosing. Not controlled by London, Dublin, Strasbourg, Brussels or anywhere else but the voters of Northern Ireland.
Option 2: Keep the backstop as indefinite but for its duration the voters of NI should continue to be represented at all levels of the EU. They should keep their MEPs with full voting rights and for the duration of the backstop Arlene Foster (or her successor) should take the place of the UK Prime Minister in the European Council with full rights including the right of veto.
Terminating democracy and not giving voters a choice is not a valid option. No matter what level of inconvenience or even death may be the result of not terminating democracy.0 -
Option 1 is fair enough but that means it will be definite because there will never be a majority to get rid of it .Philip_Thompson said:I have said all along there are two very easy ways to make the backstop democratic.
Option 1. Let the people of NI choose to join it, let them at periodic elections continue to choose to remain in it and give them the right to terminate it at a time of their choosing. Not controlled by London, Dublin, Strasbourg, Brussels or anywhere else but the voters of Northern Ireland.
Option 2: Keep the backstop as indefinite but for its duration the voters of NI should continue to be represented at all levels of the EU. They should keep their MEPs with full voting rights and for the duration of the backstop Arlene Foster (or her successor) should take the place of the UK Prime Minister in the European Council with full rights including the right of veto.
Terminating democracy and not giving voters a choice is not a valid option. No matter what level of inconvenience or even death may be the result of not terminating democracy.
Your second option I’ll put down to it being late and you had a few drinks ! You seriously think the EU are going to allow what could end up being a puppet for Westminster to veto things , a non EU nation having a veto .
You seem to be very concerned about terminating democracy but don’t see much problem with the government inflicting a no deal on the country without a mandate .
Were voters promised by Vote Leave the UK would leave with a deal and an orderly departure ?
Would they have won by saying we’ll leave without one?0 -
What you're forgetting is if the Tories mess this up they're history. They get replaced by the Brexit POblitusSumMe said:
The problem at the moment is that normal political rules - mess up and get thrown out on your ear - don't necessarily seem to apply because the polarisation of the electorate means that the voters have priorities other than competence.NickPalmer said:Corbyn, dependent on LibDems and SNP, is going to be a strictly limited experiment for now. That shouldn't be the end of the world for the Tories - on the contrary, if it's as bad as they think, they will be elected back next time. Perhaps what they really worry about is that it won't be as bad as they predict?
So, from a Tory perspective the nightmare scenario is that Corbyn gets into power, it's really truly awful, but Corbyn finds enough wedge issues to keep his voters onside and stays in power.
arty0 -
Not sure that photo has gone over as planned:
https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1143267783679062016
https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1143261627313266688
Not even in the Borisgraph:
https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/11432628945844019210 -
Yep. Terrible headlines.CarlottaVance said:Not sure that photo has gone over as planned:
https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1143267783679062016
https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1143261627313266688
Not even in the Borisgraph:
https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1143262894584401921
Expect the dead cat tomorrow.0 -
Voters were asked "Leave or Remain". Both options are clear. Leave is with or without a deal. Simples.nico67 said:
Option 1 is fair enough but that means it will be definite because there will never be a majority to get rid of it .Philip_Thompson said:I have said all along there are two very easy ways to make the backstop democratic.
Option 1. Let the people of NI choose to join it, let them at periodic elections continue to choose to remain in it and give them the right to terminate it at a time of their choosing. Not controlled by London, Dublin, Strasbourg, Brussels or anywhere else but the voters of Northern Ireland.
Option 2: Keep the backstop as indefinite but for its duration the voters of NI should continue to be represented at all levels of the EU. They should keep their MEPs with full voting rights and for the duration of the backstop Arlene Foster (or her successor) should take the place of the UK Prime Minister in the European Council with full rights including the right of veto.
Terminating democracy and not giving voters a choice is not a valid option. No matter what level of inconvenience or even death may be the result of not terminating democracy.
Your second option I’ll put down to it being late and you had a few drinks ! You seriously think the EU are going to allow what could end up being a puppet for Westminster to veto things , a non EU nation having a veto .
You seem to be very concerned about terminating democracy but don’t see much problem with the government inflicting a no deal on the country without a mandate .
Were voters promised by Vote Leave the UK would leave with a deal and an orderly departure ?
Would they have won by saying we’ll leave without one?0 -
While the nightmare for leftwingers is Boris or Farage get into power and find enough wedge issues to keep their voters onside and stay in powerOblitusSumMe said:
The problem at the moment is that normal political rules - mess up and get thrown out on your ear - don't necessarily seem to apply because the polarisation of the electorate means that the voters have priorities other than competence.NickPalmer said:Corbyn, dependent on LibDems and SNP, is going to be a strictly limited experiment for now. That shouldn't be the end of the world for the Tories - on the contrary, if it's as bad as they think, they will be elected back next time. Perhaps what they really worry about is that it won't be as bad as they predict?
So, from a Tory perspective the nightmare scenario is that Corbyn gets into power, it's really truly awful, but Corbyn finds enough wedge issues to keep his voters onside and stays in power.0
