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  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    blueblue said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour are desperate for Bozo to become PM for several reasons .

    He’s more likely to cause a complete meltdown in the Tory party . There are a huge choice of campaign slogans ready to go that they have from his huge past catalogue of gaffs .

    Bozo just gave them a gold plated one with his defending bankers . Labour are hoping in the hate stakes the anti vote will be stronger against Bozo .

    Labour would find it more difficult against Hunt regardless of what the current polls show..

    Yeah, you can tell by all the Labourites constantly attacking Johnson that they really want him as Tory leader...
    I’m one of those Labourites now disaffected because of Corbyn but see Hunt as a much bigger threat .

    Bozo has no chance of getting anything out of the EU , Hunt could get something and isn’t hated in Brussels .

    Hunt is a bit beige but seems pretty harmless , I expect there would be a huge anti Bozo vote.

    If the Tories had any sense they’d have gone for Hunt , they don’t so will go for Bozo .

    They’ve invested so much emotionally in him when failure comes it will be especially brutal and ugly .
    Hunt is not a threat, as that Sky polls shows Boris is more popular in the UK in the South, the Midlands and Wales and the North, Hunt is only more popular than Boris in London which will mostly not vote Tory anyway regardless of which of them leads and more narrowly in Scotland ie Remainerville.


    In Leaverville Boris is well ahead of Hunt
    I think unless we state otherwise, you can assume that when somebody makes a statement like "Hunt is a bigger threat than Boris", there's not an unspoken extra "based on the assumption that the election plays out exactly according to the latest polls" at the end. In fact, when somebody predicts something, and their prediction doesn't exactly match the latest polls, it's highly likely that they already know that, or at the very least think it's not important.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    Charles said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    algarkirk said:




    Hope, if Boris wins, TM advises HM that Kenneth Clarke and a GNU is the country's only hope of a stable government. She owes Boris few favours, but we may think she owes the country a few.

    One other point. An immediate vonc in late July would lead to the cancellation of the summer holidays as mps deal with the crisis and even a GE fought through the summer holidays

    Seems unlikely but who knows
    Have you tried to book a holiday in late June or July. They are priced as peak and most everyone we know with school children are going away from early July to mid August

    Also mps will have committed thousands to their summer holidays and it is lost money if they do not go as it is not covered by insurance
    Even if Boris does lose a VONC I think the likeliest date for a general election is early September not July or August.

    Plus of course we now have postal and proxy votes so even if it is in August and people are on holiday they can still vote

    Campaigning in August would be a nonsense
    I think Boris will be PM, I cannot see a VONC the next day myself.
    There are two different mechanisms for a VONC in a new PM.

    1. Mrs May recommends Johnson to the Queen as someone who has the confidence of the House. Johnson kisses hands, picks up the nuclear codes and becomes PM. There is a subsequent VONC in his government which succeeds or not. That's one way.

    2. The other way is that Mrs May, while remaining PM, tests whether Johnson has the confidence of the House by introducing an amendable business motion " A government led by Boris Johnson has the confidence of this House". Call it an indicative VONC. If it succeeds, Mrs May recommends Johnson to the Queen and he becomes PM.

    If it is amendable, other candidates may be proposed and tested. If such an amendment passes, Mrs May recommends that person. If no-one can command the confidence of the House, she then has no choice but to call a GE, remaining PM in the meantime.
    We know you think 2 is a cute idea but it won’t happen. It would destroy the party. May will recommend the leader of the largest party in the Commons. It would be extraordinary if she were to do anything else
    These are extraordinary totally unprecedented times. If she does recommend the leader of the largest party i.e. Boris, knowing that he faces a successful VONC then she is neglecting her duty. She won't do that.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Barnesian said:


    They can't stop the members voting for him! The die is cast and it is catastrophic for the party.

    We are only talking about 10-15 Tory MPs who would be prepared to VONC him. But that would be enough.

    That's my point. If they were going to do it, they would already have done it to prevent him making the last two, so that it wouldn't be up to the members. Unless they're extremely stupid or irresponsible, which I suppose is a possibility.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    El_Sid said:

    Barnesian said:


    There are two different mechanisms for a VONC in a new PM.

    1. Mrs May recommends Johnson to the Queen as someone who has the confidence of the House.

    The test is not "has the confidence of the House", but the person who is "best placed" to command the confidence of the House.

    That's a really important point on which constitutional lawyers of my acquaintance get quite agitated - otherwise minority governments would be impossible. And it's not up exclusively up to May although she has a leading role as the principal adviser to the Crown, the Cabinet Manual says

    "if there is doubt it is the responsibility of those involved in the political process, and in particular the parties represented in Parliament, to seek to determine and communicate clearly to the Sovereign who is best placed to be able to command the confidence of the House of Commons. As the Crown’s principal adviser this responsibility falls especially on the incumbent Prime Minister, who at the time of his or her resignation may also be asked by the Sovereign for a recommendation on who can best command the confidence of the House of Commons in his or her place. "

    Para 2.9 of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/60641/cabinet-manual.pdf
    Thanks for the clarification. Very useful.

    If there is doubt, and there may well be, she may feel obliged to test with an indicative VONC, who is best placed etc,

    She doesn't owe Johnson any favours. She knows what he's like. She knows his "strategy" is vapid. She cares about her Party.

    EDIT Party members will be up in arms - but most of them vote for the Brexit Party anyway so she may feel "sod 'em".
    If there are Tory MPs who'd vote against their government if it was led by Boris, before he's had a chance to actually do anything, why aren't they saying so now? Why would they wait until the day he's declared winner to say "Hey, guess what guys!..."
    Some of them are. There are rumours that a number of Tory MPs plan to write to Mrs May declaring that a government led by Johnson would not have their confidence.
    Rule 1: Tory Remainers have no stones.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    blueblue said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour are desperate for Bozo to become PM for several reasons .

    He’s more likely to cause a complete meltdown in the Tory party . There are a huge choice of campaign slogans ready to go that they have from his huge past catalogue of gaffs .

    Bozo just gave them a gold plated one with his defending bankers . Labour are hoping in the hate stakes the anti vote will be stronger against Bozo .

    Labour would find it more difficult against Hunt regardless of what the current polls show..

    Yeah, you can tell by all the Labourites constantly attacking Johnson that they really want him as Tory leader...
    Good point.
    The way we Nats kept pointing out what a disaster Jim Murphy (who he?) was showed how much we feared him as SLab leader.
    Jim Murphy did not motivate his base, Boris does
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019

    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    blueblue said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour are desperate for Bozo to become PM for several reasons .

    He’s more likely to cause a complete meltdown in the Tory party . There are a huge choice of campaign slogans ready to go that they have from his huge past catalogue of gaffs .

    Bozo just gave them a gold plated one with his defending bankers . Labour are hoping in the hate stakes the anti vote will be stronger against Bozo .

    Labour would find it more difficult against Hunt regardless of what the current polls show..

    Yeah, you can tell by all the Labourites constantly attacking Johnson that they really want him as Tory leader...
    I’m one of those Labourites now disaffected because of Corbyn but see Hunt as a much bigger threat .

    Bozo has no chance of getting anything out of the EU , Hunt could get something and isn’t hated in Brussels .

    Hunt is a bit beige but seems pretty harmless , I expect there would be a huge anti Bozo vote.

    If the Tories had any sense they’d have gone for Hunt , they don’t so will go for Bozo .

    They’ve invested so much emotionally in him when failure comes it will be especially brutal and ugly .
    Hunt is not a threat to Labour, as that Sky poll shows Boris is more popular than Hunt in the South, the Midlands and Wales and the North where most of the marginal seats are, Hunt is only more popular than Boris in London which will mostly not vote Tory anyway regardless of which of them leads and more narrowly in Scotland ie Remainerville.


    In Leaverville Boris is well ahead of Hunt
    Maybe try not to be too complacent
    Just pointing out the facts, the only voters Hunt leads Boris with on that poll are Londoners, over 55s and narrowly Scots and Hunt almost ties Boris with women.

    Boris leads Hunt with Northerners, those in the Midlands and Wales, the middle aged and the young and Boris trounces Hunt with men and Southerners.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    kle4 said:

    Sky reporting that Boris has seen a big drop in his lead indicated by their own poll

    Boris 37 (-7) Hunt 32 (+7) Dont knows 31

    And yet still leads comfortably. Presumably his lead among Tories remains even larger, and what happens once the excitement of the past few days dies down?
    Hunt needs to make sure he's maintaining a high public profile, making his case repeatedly even if Boris is nowhere to be seen.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    All Hunt needs to do is go on TV and say how people will feel cheated about Boris not taking part in a debate.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    viewcode said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    El_Sid said:

    Barnesian said:


    There are two different mechanisms for a VONC in a new PM.

    1. Mrs May recommends Johnson to the Queen as someone who has the confidence of the House.

    The test is not "has the confidence of the House", but the person who is "best placed" to command the confidence of the House.

    That's a really important point on which constitutional lawyers of my acquaintance get quite agitated - otherwise minority governments would be impossible. And it's not up exclusively up to May although she has a leading role as the principal adviser to the Crown, the Cabinet Manual says

    "if there is doubt it is the responsibility of those involved in the political process, and in particular the parties represented in Parliament, to seek to determine and communicate clearly to the Sovereign who is best placed to be able to command the confidence of the House of Commons. As the Crown’s principal adviser this responsibility falls especially on the incumbent Prime Minister, who at the time of his or her resignation may also be asked by the Sovereign for a recommendation on who can best command the confidence of the House of Commons in his or her place. "

    Para 2.9 of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/60641/cabinet-manual.pdf
    Thanks for the clarification. Very useful.

    If there is doubt, and there may well be, she may feel obliged to test with an indicative VONC, who is best placed etc,

    She doesn't owe Johnson any favours. She knows what he's like. She knows his "strategy" is vapid. She cares about her Party.

    EDIT Party members will be up in arms - but most of them vote for the Brexit Party anyway so she may feel "sod 'em".
    If there are Tory MPs who'd vote against their government if it was led by Boris, before he's had a chance to actually do anything, why aren't they saying so now? Why would they wait until the day he's declared winner to say "Hey, guess what guys!..."
    Some of them are. There are rumours that a number of Tory MPs plan to write to Mrs May declaring that a government led by Johnson would not have their confidence.
    Rule 1: Tory Remainers have no stones.
    Grieve and Letwin certainly had.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    edited June 2019
    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited June 2019
    HYUFD said:

    blueblue said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour are desperate for Bozo to become PM for several reasons .

    He’s more likely to cause a complete meltdown in the Tory party . There are a huge choice of campaign slogans ready to go that they have from his huge past catalogue of gaffs .

    Bozo just gave them a gold plated one with his defending bankers . Labour are hoping in the hate stakes the anti vote will be stronger against Bozo .

    Labour would find it more difficult against Hunt regardless of what the current polls show..

    Yeah, you can tell by all the Labourites constantly attacking Johnson that they really want him as Tory leader...
    Good point.
    The way we Nats kept pointing out what a disaster Jim Murphy (who he?) was showed how much we feared him as SLab leader.
    Jim Murphy did not motivate his base, Boris does
    But you ignore the substantive point. Only the other day I was accused of criticising Ruth Davidson because I feared her. Preposterous. We have a long track record of criticising useless Unionist politicians... and being proven right in subsequent elections.

    (Incidentally, politicians who only motivate their base never win elections. Jim Murphy used to understand that.)
  • El_SidEl_Sid Posts: 145
    Barnesian said:

    El_Sid said:

    Barnesian said:


    There are two different mechanisms for a VONC in a new PM.

    1. Mrs May recommends Johnson to the Queen as someone who has the confidence of the House.

    The test is not "has the confidence of the House", but the person who is "best placed" to command the confidence of the House.

    That's a really important point on which constitutional lawyers of my acquaintance get quite agitated - otherwise minority governments would be impossible. And it's not up exclusively up to May although she has a leading role as the principal adviser to the Crown, the Cabinet Manual says

    "if there is doubt it is the responsibility of those involved in the political process, and in particular the parties represented in Parliament, to seek to determine and communicate clearly to the Sovereign who is best placed to be able to command the confidence of the House of Commons. As the Crown’s principal adviser this responsibility falls especially on the incumbent Prime Minister, who at the time of his or her resignation may also be asked by the Sovereign for a recommendation on who can best command the confidence of the House of Commons in his or her place. "

    Para 2.9 of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/60641/cabinet-manual.pdf
    Thanks for the clarification. Very useful.

    If there is doubt, and there may well be, she may feel obliged to test with an indicative VONC, who is best placed etc,

    She doesn't owe Johnson any favours. She knows what he's like. She knows his "strategy" is vapid. She cares about her Party.

    EDIT Party members will be up in arms - but most of them vote for the Brexit Party anyway so she may feel "sod 'em".
    Nah - aside from it being kinda nuts, it's easily countered by Labour saying "We reject any attempt by the Tories to negate their own democratic processes, so we will abstain on any VoNC against the elected leader of the Tories until their predecessor has handed over the keys to No 10, and vote in favour of any other VoNC".

    That stuffs May's VoNC unless you eg get a majority of Tories voting for no confidence in their newly-elected leader - perhaps possible if it was Hunt, but even the Tories are surely not _that_ mad?

    Strange times.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:



    Just pointing out the facts, the only voters Hunt leads Boris with on that poll are Londoners, over 55s and narrowly Scots and Hunt almost ties Boris with women.
    Boris leads Hunt with Northerners, those in the Midlands and Wales, the middle aged and the young and Boris trounces Hunt with men and Southerners.

    The problem for you, Mr HY, is that most Conservative voters are over 55. Hunt would make the better leader for you.

    The difficulty is that the country is in the middle of a crisis of the Conservatives`own making. Do we want somebody who might be able to come up with a solution, or somebody who is just a joker?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    Was that it.

    I cannot see we learnt anything with his BBC interview
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    viewcode said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    algarkirk said:




    Hope, if Boris wins, TM advises HM that Kenneth Clarke and a GNU is the country's only hope of a stable government. She owes Boris few favours, but we may think she owes the country a few.

    One other point. An immediate vonc in late July would lead to the cancellation of the summer holidays as mps deal with the crisis and even a GE fought through the summer holidays

    Seems unlikely but who knows
    Have you tried to book a holiday in late June or July. They are priced as peak and most everyone we know with school children are going away from early July to mid August

    Also mps will have committed thousands to their summer holidays and it is lost money if they do not go as it is not covered by insurance
    Even if Boris does lose a VONC I think the likeliest date for a general election is early September not July or August.

    Plus of course we now have postal and proxy votes so even if it is in August and people are on holiday they can still vote

    Campaigning in August would be a nonsense
    I think Boris will be PM, I cannot see a VONC the next day myself.
    There are two different mechanisms for a VONC in a new PM.

    1. Mrs May recommends Johnson to the Queen as someone who has the confidence of the House. Johnson kisses hands, picks up the nuclear codes and becomes PM. There is a subsequent VONC in his government which succeeds or not. That's one way.

    2. The other way is that Mrs May, while remaining PM, tests whether Johnson has the confidence of the House by introducing an amendable business motion " A government led by Boris Johnson has the confidence of this House". Call it an indicative VONC. If it succeeds, Mrs May recommends Johnson to the Queen and he becomes PM.

    If it is amendable, other candidates may be proposed and tested. If such an amendment passes, Mrs May recommends that person. If no-one can command the confidence of the House, she then has no choice but to call a GE, remaining PM in the meantime.
    Re no 2 - TM ceases to be pm on the result of the ballot and would have no power to do so
    She stops being PM when she dies, resigns the position of PM, or HMQ fires her. Not before. You could elect ten million leaders of the Conservative Party and that would still be the case.
    And I thought the Greens had a radical approach with their shared leadership!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Barnesian said:

    viewcode said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    El_Sid said:

    Barnesian said:


    There are two different mechanisms for a VONC in a new PM.

    1. Mrs May recommends Johnson to the Queen as someone who has the confidence of the House.

    The test is not "has the confidence of the House", but the person who is "best placed" to command the confidence of the House.

    That's a really important point on which constitutional lawyers of my acquaintance get quite agitated - otherwise minority governments would be impossible. And it's not up exclusively up to May although she has a leading role as the principal adviser to the Crown, the Cabinet Manual says

    "if there is doubt it is the responsibility of those involved in the political process, and in particular the parties represented in Parliament, to seek to determine and communicate clearly to the Sovereign who is best placed to be able to command the confidence of the House of Commons. As the Crown’s principal adviser this responsibility falls especially on the incumbent Prime Minister, who at the time of his or her resignation may also be asked by the Sovereign for a recommendation on who can best command the confidence of the House of Commons in his or her place. "

    Para 2.9 of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/60641/cabinet-manual.pdf
    Thanks for the clarification. Very useful.

    If there is doubt, and there may well be, she may feel obliged to test with an indicative VONC, who is best placed etc,

    She doesn't owe Johnson any favours. She knows what he's like. She knows his "strategy" is vapid. She cares about her Party.

    EDIT Party members will be up in arms - but most of them vote for the Brexit Party anyway so she may feel "sod 'em".
    If there are Tory MPs who'd vote against their government if it was led by Boris, before he's had a chance to actually do anything, why aren't they saying so now? Why would they wait until the day he's declared winner to say "Hey, guess what guys!..."
    Some of them are. There are rumours that a number of Tory MPs plan to write to Mrs May declaring that a government led by Johnson would not have their confidence.
    Rule 1: Tory Remainers have no stones.
    Grieve and Letwin certainly had.
    Rule 1.1 (as amended). Not enough Tory Remainers have enough stones to make a difference.

    :)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Cyclefree said:

    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    It’s going to get worse before it gets better.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    edited June 2019

    Was that it.

    I cannot see we learnt anything with his BBC interview

    No. But not for want of trying. I thought Laura did very well there and his body language was defensive.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:



    Just pointing out the facts, the only voters Hunt leads Boris with on that poll are Londoners, over 55s and narrowly Scots and Hunt almost ties Boris with women.
    Boris leads Hunt with Northerners, those in the Midlands and Wales, the middle aged and the young and Boris trounces Hunt with men and Southerners.

    The problem for you, Mr HY, is that most Conservative voters are over 55. Hunt would make the better leader for you.

    The difficulty is that the country is in the middle of a crisis of the Conservatives`own making. Do we want somebody who might be able to come up with a solution, or somebody who is just a joker?
    No he wouldn't as voters over 55 will vote Tory anyway regardless of whether Boris or Hunt is leader even if they slightly prefer Hunt.

    The voters in the key marginal seats are mainly in the Midlands and Wales and the North and South and those regions all back Boris over Hunt and Boris also leads Hunt with the middle aged and if the Tories do not win the middle aged they will lose the election.

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Perfectly happy to support Bozo in not talking about his private life . Apart from that the rest of the interview was yet more wishful thinking , bluff and bluster .
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    Your lot are putting Boris in no 10, it is for you to get a grip.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133

    Was that it.

    I cannot see we learnt anything with his BBC interview

    No. But not for want of trying. I thought Laura did very well there and his body language was defensive.
    Yes - Laura was fine and he does look very defensive
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Plaid pulling out of Brecon presumably ups the odds on the Lib Dems.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48742981

    Good decision. Worth +3 points for the Lib Dems.
    Terrible decision for the party of Wales to concede to an English party
    Defeating Brexit idiocy must be the priority. Especially in a seat where we haven’t even saved a deposit in decades.

    I wouldn’t describe the LDs as “an English party”. They are Welsh Unionists and British federalists.
    They are the English party compared to Plaid

    Just madness for Plaid to leave the field in such an important constituency here in Wales

    And Wales voted leave
    Lib Dem-inclined voters have been *very* kind to the SNP in recent years. I think that it is time for SNP/PC to return the favour. Fair’s fair.

    Smash the Tories. Smash Labour. Smash this Brexit idiocy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576

    Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    Your lot are putting Boris in no 10, it is for you to get a grip.
    You want to put Corbyn in - really no contest in the shit stakes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    blueblue said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour are desperate for Bozo to become PM for several reasons .

    He’s more likely to cause a complete meltdown in the Tory party . There are a huge choice of campaign slogans ready to go that they have from his huge past catalogue of gaffs .

    Bozo just gave them a gold plated one with his defending bankers . Labour are hoping in the hate stakes the anti vote will be stronger against Bozo .

    Labour would find it more difficult against Hunt regardless of what the current polls show..

    Yeah, you can tell by all the Labourites constantly attacking Johnson that they really want him as Tory leader...
    Good point.
    The way we Nats kept pointing out what a disaster Jim Murphy (who he?) was showed how much we feared him as SLab leader.
    One of the silliest ideas people use to defend their preferred candidate for anything is that their opponents 'fear' that person, else why would they attack them. They'll attack regardless, and sometimes it is just because that person is really crap, as you note.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Laura K just made him seem like a dribbling blobfish and she wasn't even trying. If any Tory member votes for him they're as thick as pig shit.

    (Except for HYUFD who is in love)
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Cyclefree said:

    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?


    Life will go on you know.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited June 2019
    I suspect what is going on in his head, the PG stuff anyway is:

    This is my destiny, this is my destiny, this is my destiny. BREXIT. This is my destiny.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Roger said:

    Laura K just made him seem like a dribbling blobfish and she wasn't even trying. If any Tory member votes for him they're as thick as pig shit.

    (Except for HYUFD who is in love)

    Yep. The gal did well. But I fear he could announce that Swift's A Modest Proposal is now government policy and he would still win.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    Your lot are putting Boris in no 10, it is for you to get a grip.
    You want to put Corbyn in - really no contest in the shit stakes.
    Not sure everyone is with you on that. Boris does a good job of making Corbyn look like the conservative, pragmatic choice.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?


    Life will go on you know.
    It will, but now people will leap on your line as a 'so that is all we can look forward to now?' gotcha.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Cyclefree said:

    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    You’re looking through rose-tinted spectacles.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Charles said:

    viewcode said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:


    Even if Boris does lose a VONC I think the likeliest date for a general election is early September not July or August.

    Plus of course we now have postal and proxy votes so even if it is in August and people are on holiday they can still vote


    Campaigning in August would be a nonsense
    I think Boris will be PM, I cannot see a VONC the next day myself.
    There are two different mechanisms for a VONC in a new PM.

    1. Mrs May recommends Johnson to the Queen as someone who has the confidence of the House. Johnson kisses hands, picks up the nuclear codes and becomes PM. There is a subsequent VONC in his government which succeeds or not. That's one way.

    2. The other way is that Mrs May, while remaining PM, tests whether Johnson has the confidence of the House by introducing an amendable business motion " A government led by Boris Johnson has the confidence of this House". Call it an indicative VONC. If it succeeds, Mrs May recommends Johnson to the Queen and he becomes PM.

    If it is amendable, other candidates may be proposed and tested. If such an amendment passes, Mrs May recommends that person. If no-one can command the confidence of the House, she then has no choice but to call a GE, remaining PM in the meantime.
    Re no 2 - TM ceases to be pm on the result of the ballot and would have no power to do so
    She stops being PM when she dies, resigns the position of PM, or HMQ fires her. Not before. You could elect ten million leaders of the Conservative Party and that would still be the case.
    And I thought the Greens had a radical approach with their shared leadership!
    I think it has to be some atomic particle - a leaderon? - that moves between each candidate so that each can be the leader for a picosecond. Or you can have Schrödinger's Leader: you lock each candidate in a box and only collapse the waveform when you open it.
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:



    Just pointing out the facts, the only voters Hunt leads Boris with on that poll are Londoners, over 55s and narrowly Scots and Hunt almost ties Boris with women.
    Boris leads Hunt with Northerners, those in the Midlands and Wales, the middle aged and the young and Boris trounces Hunt with men and Southerners.

    The problem for you, Mr HY, is that most Conservative voters are over 55. Hunt would make the better leader for you.

    The difficulty is that the country is in the middle of a crisis of the Conservatives`own making. Do we want somebody who might be able to come up with a solution, or somebody who is just a joker?
    No he wouldn't as voters over 55 will vote Tory anyway regardless of whether Boris or Hunt is leader even if they slightly prefer Hunt.

    The voters in the key marginal seats are mainly in the Midlands and Wales and the North and they all back Boris over Hunt and Boris also leads Hunt with the middle aged and if the Tories do not win the middle aged they will lose the election.

    Are you assuming that most of the remaining Tory MPs in London are toast regardless ?

    There's a lot of them sitting on small majorities.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    It’s going to get worse before it gets better.
    I think you've just pipped Hirohito for understatement.......
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited June 2019

    Was that it.

    I cannot see we learnt anything with his BBC interview

    From what i saw of the interview he does not inspire confidence!

    The line that stuck out to me was the part where he said "people should work out whats going on my head" or words to that effect! WTF! I have never heard a politician talk about the workings of their brain. No wonder he avoids any debates.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    kle4 said:

    I suspect what is going on in his head, the PG stuff anyway is:

    This is my destiny, this is my destiny, this is my destiny. BREXIT. This is my destiny.
    More like 'Cripes, the ball has finally come lose from the scrum, but it is covered in poisonous shit...'
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    edited June 2019
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    Obviously I can't be sure that you'd be in this category, but I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that if anyone had suggested a couple of years ago that the Conservative party, Westminster and the UK was going to end up in this current parlous state, PB Tories* would have instantly called them hopeless doom mongers who should *get a grip*.

    Edit: *many PB Tories
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    So what Johnson said about Muslim women and flag waving picanninies was really what’s going on in his head . Oh dear !

    Do we add the Libya comments on clearing up the corpses to make a beach resort , gay marriage as bestiality and the rest aswell !

    I can see why his handlers or should they be called babysitters want to keep him away from the cameras and any debate .

    The more he talks the worse it gets !
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    Roger said:

    Laura K just made him seem like a dribbling blobfish and she wasn't even trying. If any Tory member votes for him they're as thick as pig shit.

    (Except for HYUFD who is in love)

    Yep. The gal did well. But I fear he could announce that Swift's A Modest Proposal is now government policy and he would still win.
    It's Trump all over again. We're busy congratulating ourselves over our identification of his many manifest flaws, but his supporters already know and don't care. And there are enough of them to make him leader and maybe enough to make him PM and, as @HYUFD points out, maybe enough for a majority, even a large one.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Was that it.

    I cannot see we learnt anything with his BBC interview

    No. But not for want of trying. I thought Laura did very well there and his body language was defensive.
    Yes - Laura was fine and he does look very defensive
    In one sense he is a genius at taking up interview time with 'erms', 'well look', 'well you know', 'i'm pretty sure that on balance', ruffling hair etc etc.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576

    Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?

    It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    viewcode said:

    Roger said:

    Laura K just made him seem like a dribbling blobfish and she wasn't even trying. If any Tory member votes for him they're as thick as pig shit.

    (Except for HYUFD who is in love)

    Yep. The gal did well. But I fear he could announce that Swift's A Modest Proposal is now government policy and he would still win.
    It's Trump all over again. We're busy congratulating ourselves over our identification of his many manifest flaws, but his supporters already know and don't care. And there are enough of them to make him leader and maybe enough to make him PM and, as @HYUFD points out, maybe enough for a majority, even a large one.
    Thanks. :disappointed:
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Cyclefree said:

    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Just as well I like turnips.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    Roger said:

    Laura K just made him seem like a dribbling blobfish and she wasn't even trying. If any Tory member votes for him they're as thick as pig shit.

    (Except for HYUFD who is in love)

    I have no love for Boris but your intolerance does you no favours
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    No - it is the Tories who need to get a grip. Seriously. You (Tories) are behaving ridiculously. Utterly ridiculously. The more we see of those who are or who have been in Cabinet the more we see people who are ignorant, incompetent and woefully lacking in any talent. We see arrogance and a total lack of concern for those likely to be impacted by a policy (and that is to be polite) which you cannot explain, for which you have no plan and in respect of which your spokesmen are talking verifiable nonsense virtually every single time you open your mouths.

    You Tories are contemptible in the way you are behaving. You are exhausted, out of ideas, confused, directionless and divided. You are out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people who do worry about the future, about jobs, about their children and their future, about homes and savings. You are destroying what remains of your USP and in your complacency and arrogance think that Corbyn is so much worse that voters will have no option but to choose you. You are so mistaken. You are desperate to escape the trap you've fallen into and are thrashing around. It is pitiful and concerning watching this happen in a country which used to be a by-word for pragmatism and common-sense.

    "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

    I'm tired, yes. But above all I'm furious at the way your wretched party is wilfully gambling with my children's futures. You will not be easily - if ever - forgiven. Not by me anyway.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
    PaulM said:

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:



    Just pointing out the facts, the only voters Hunt leads Boris with on that poll are Londoners, over 55s and narrowly Scots and Hunt almost ties Boris with women.
    Boris leads Hunt with Northerners, those in the Midlands and Wales, the middle aged and the young and Boris trounces Hunt with men and Southerners.

    The problem for you, Mr HY, is that most Conservative voters are over 55. Hunt would make the better leader for you.

    The difficulty is that the country is in the middle of a crisis of the Conservatives`own making. Do we want somebody who might be able to come up with a solution, or somebody who is just a joker?
    No he wouldn't as voters over 55 will vote Tory anyway regardless of whether Boris or Hunt is leader even if they slightly prefer Hunt.

    The voters in the key marginal seats are mainly in the Midlands and Wales and the North and they all back Boris over Hunt and Boris also leads Hunt with the middle aged and if the Tories do not win the middle aged they will lose the election.

    Are you assuming that most of the remaining Tory MPs in London are toast regardless ?

    There's a lot of them sitting on small majorities.

    The Tories have already lost so many London seats to Labour in 2015 and 2017 that only 6 of the top 50 Labour target seats are in London now anyway.

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour

    Only 4 of the top 50 Tory target seats are now in London too

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/conservative
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    viewcode said:

    Roger said:

    Laura K just made him seem like a dribbling blobfish and she wasn't even trying. If any Tory member votes for him they're as thick as pig shit.

    (Except for HYUFD who is in love)

    Yep. The gal did well. But I fear he could announce that Swift's A Modest Proposal is now government policy and he would still win.
    It's Trump all over again. We're busy congratulating ourselves over our identification of his many manifest flaws, but his supporters already know and don't care. And there are enough of them to make him leader and maybe enough to make him PM and, as @HYUFD points out, maybe enough for a majority, even a large one.
    But, yes, you are correct.

    He will literally have to self-combust to lose this now. But it will be closer than many think.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    No - it is the Tories who need to get a grip. Seriously. You (Tories) are behaving ridiculously. Utterly ridiculously. The more we see of those who are or who have been in Cabinet the more we see people who are ignorant, incompetent and woefully lacking in any talent. We see arrogance and a total lack of concern for those likely to be impacted by a policy (and that is to be polite) which you cannot explain, for which you have no plan and in respect of which your spokesmen are talking verifiable nonsense virtually every single time you open your mouths.

    You Tories are contemptible in the way you are behaving. You are exhausted, out of ideas, confused, directionless and divided. You are out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people who do worry about the future, about jobs, about their children and their future, about homes and savings. You are destroying what remains of your USP and in your complacency and arrogance think that Corbyn is so much worse that voters will have no option but to choose you. You are so mistaken. You are desperate to escape the trap you've fallen into and are thrashing around. It is pitiful and concerning watching this happen in a country which used to be a by-word for pragmatism and common-sense.

    "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

    I'm tired, yes. But above all I'm furious at the way your wretched party is wilfully gambling with my children's futures. You will not be easily - if ever - forgiven. Not by me anyway.

    Post of the decade.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?


    Life will go on you know.
    Perhaps not Tory life. The hardline Brexiteers and chancers are destroying the Tory party - which is a pity. The country needs a decent opposition.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    A
    HYUFD said:

    PaulM said:

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:



    Just pointing out the facts, the only voters Hunt leads Boris with on that poll are Londoners, over 55s and narrowly Scots and Hunt almost ties Boris with women.
    Boris leads Hunt with Northerners, those in the Midlands and Wales, the middle aged and the young and Boris trounces Hunt with men and Southerners.

    The problem for you, Mr HY, is that most Conservative voters are over 55. Hunt would make the better leader for you.

    The difficulty is that the country is in the middle of a crisis of the Conservatives`own making. Do we want somebody who might be able to come up with a solution, or somebody who is just a joker?
    No he wouldn't as voters over 55 will vote Tory anyway regardless of whether Boris or Hunt is leader even if they slightly prefer Hunt.

    The voters in the key marginal seats are mainly in the Midlands and Wales and the North and they all back Boris over Hunt and Boris also leads Hunt with the middle aged and if the Tories do not win the middle aged they will lose the election.

    Are you assuming that most of the remaining Tory MPs in London are toast regardless ?

    There's a lot of them sitting on small majorities.

    The Tories have already lost so many London seats to Labour in 2015 and 2017 that only 6 of the top 50 Labour target seats are in London now anyway.

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour

    Only 4 of the top 50 Tory target seats are now in London too

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/conservative
    Lol @ the concept of Tory target seats in London.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    No - it is the Tories who need to get a grip. Seriously. You (Tories) are behaving ridiculously. Utterly ridiculously. The more we see of those who are or who have been in Cabinet the more we see people who are ignorant, incompetent and woefully lacking in any talent. We see arrogance and a total lack of concern for those likely to be impacted by a policy (and that is to be polite) which you cannot explain, for which you have no plan and in respect of which your spokesmen are talking verifiable nonsense virtually every single time you open your mouths.

    You Tories are contemptible in the way you are behaving. You are exhausted, out of ideas, confused, directionless and divided. You are out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people who do worry about the future, about jobs, about their children and their future, about homes and savings. You are destroying what remains of your USP and in your complacency and arrogance think that Corbyn is so much worse that voters will have no option but to choose you. You are so mistaken. You are desperate to escape the trap you've fallen into and are thrashing around. It is pitiful and concerning watching this happen in a country which used to be a by-word for pragmatism and common-sense.

    "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

    I'm tired, yes. But above all I'm furious at the way your wretched party is wilfully gambling with my children's futures. You will not be easily - if ever - forgiven. Not by me anyway.

    I think you're being too generous.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    No - it is the Tories who need to get a grip. Seriously. You (Tories) are behaving ridiculously. Utterly ridiculously. The more we see of those who are or who have been in Cabinet the more we see people who are ignorant, incompetent and woefully lacking in any talent. We see arrogance and a total lack of concern for those likely to be impacted by a policy (and that is to be polite) which you cannot explain, for which you have no plan and in respect of which your spokesmen are talking verifiable nonsense virtually every single time you open your mouths.

    You Tories are contemptible in the way you are behaving. You are exhausted, out of ideas, confused, directionless and divided. You are out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people who do worry about the future, about jobs, about their children and their future, about homes and savings. You are destroying what remains of your USP and in your complacency and arrogance think that Corbyn is so much worse that voters will have no option but to choose you. You are so mistaken. You are desperate to escape the trap you've fallen into and are thrashing around. It is pitiful and concerning watching this happen in a country which used to be a by-word for pragmatism and common-sense.

    "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

    I'm tired, yes. But above all I'm furious at the way your wretched party is wilfully gambling with my children's futures. You will not be easily - if ever - forgiven. Not by me anyway.

    Post of the decade.
    And it all comes back to the shrunken state of the party. A mere 160k members. When there were two million in 1950s.

    It is hollow.

    And that is a terrible reflection on wider society.

    Bowling alone...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    IanB2 said:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576

    Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?

    It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.
    Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I give up. The Tories are going to have a 4-week campaign and then some of their MPs are going to say that the chosen leader is an arse in whom they don't have any confidence. And then we'll have yet another GE and waste more time and probably end up with another messy hung Parliament and still won't be any closer to having done any of the practical stuff needed actually to leave the EU on any sort of basis.

    And then, presumably, panic and ask for an extension or maybe not but leave without any relevant legislation into some sort of legal no-man's land two months before Xmas when all the warehouses will be full of Chinese tat to cheer us all up at the likelihood that the only veg available at reasonable prices will be turnips while the days get short and dark and, oh, probably, we'll have a hard winter as well.

    And if we do get an extension the Tories will burst into flames and Farage will be PM with Anne Widdecombe as Minister for Squashing Diversity and Annunziata handing out food parcels to the poor like a heroine in a Victorian novel. While Mr Corbyn thinks about doing something possibly, maybe, once a committee has been held.

    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?


    Life will go on you know.
    Yes it can - and do so in a pretty rubbish way. And having lived through it in the past I don't really want to repeat the experience or have my children endure it.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    edited June 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    No - it is the Tories who need to get a grip. Seriously. You (Tories) are behaving ridiculously. Utterly ridiculously. The more we see of those who are or who have been in Cabinet the more we see people who are ignorant, incompetent and woefully lacking in any talent. We see arrogance and a total lack of concern for those likely to be impacted by a policy (and that is to be polite) which you cannot explain, for which you have no plan and in respect of which your spokesmen are talking verifiable nonsense virtually every single time you open your mouths.

    You Tories are contemptible in the way you are behaving. You are exhausted, out of ideas, confused, directionless and divided. You are out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people who do worry about the future, about jobs, about their children and their future, about homes and savings. You are destroying what remains of your USP and in your complacency and arrogance think that Corbyn is so much worse that voters will have no option but to choose you. You are so mistaken. You are desperate to escape the trap you've fallen into and are thrashing around. It is pitiful and concerning watching this happen in a country which used to be a by-word for pragmatism and common-sense.

    "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

    I'm tired, yes. But above all I'm furious at the way your wretched party is wilfully gambling with my children's futures. You will not be easily - if ever - forgiven. Not by me anyway.

    Well said.

    There are few people in the House of Comons who beat Jeremy Corbyn for incompetence and unsuitability for the role of PM. But Boris Johnson is one of them. And the Tories are about to make this cowardly lying clown our national leader.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    IanB2 said:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576

    Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?

    It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.
    Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?
    Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Roger said:

    Laura K just made him seem like a dribbling blobfish and she wasn't even trying. If any Tory member votes for him they're as thick as pig shit.

    (Except for HYUFD who is in love)

    I have no love for Boris but your intolerance does you no favours
    To put it into context I would prefer Len McClusky as PM rather than Johnson and I thought there was no one I liked less than McClusky
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Boris also said there is a real feeling in the EU that they need to get stuck in and get this done.

    That is a flat out lie.

    Total and utter falsehood.

    The Commission is shutting down as there is a new Parliament. We don't even know the make up of the new EU negotiating team. They have repeatedly said the WA is closed. Most EU people will off on holiday from end of July (when he maybe becomes PM) and September.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Laura K just made him seem like a dribbling blobfish and she wasn't even trying. If any Tory member votes for him they're as thick as pig shit.

    (Except for HYUFD who is in love)

    I have no love for Boris but your intolerance does you no favours
    To put it into context I would prefer Len McClusky as PM rather than Johnson and I thought there was no one I liked less than McClusky
    Perhaps Boris will invite Big Len round to No 10 to help him deliver Brexit?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Parliament should all get together right now and pass a law changing the way PMs get chosen so Parliament changes the PM by voting for a new one, instead of this ridiculous roundabout thing where unnamed advisors take soundings and communicate to The Queen the general vibe of what parliament would might do if it had a chance to vote against them.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Watched the interview. The man is dangerous. Boris is completely up himself and lacks basic regard for facts. Those that support Boris are seriously misguided. Sorry HYFUD, you’ve got this very wrong. He may bluster and bluff his way through Brexit and an election, but at tremendous cost.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576

    Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?

    It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.
    Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?
    Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.
    Yep. But at least they can say they bore witness to the end of the Conservative Party.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Parliament should all get together right now and pass a law changing the way PMs get chosen so Parliament changes the PM by voting for a new one, instead of this ridiculous roundabout thing where unnamed advisors take soundings and communicate to The Queen the general vibe of what parliament would might do if it had a chance to vote against them.

    Making sudden procedural changes in relation to short term frustration is not a great way to make a change.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576

    Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?

    It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.
    Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?
    Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.
    Which is why Boris needs a majority to deliver a Deal Brexit, the WA will never get through otherwise because of the DUP and 10-20 Tory ERG hardliners who are opposed to the WA in principle even without the backstop or the temporary Customs Union removed and about 6 Tory diehard Remainer hardliners who are now basically LDs in all but name
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    RobD said:
    Don't be giving it a German name. You'll only set them off.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Laura K just made him seem like a dribbling blobfish and she wasn't even trying. If any Tory member votes for him they're as thick as pig shit.

    (Except for HYUFD who is in love)

    I have no love for Boris but your intolerance does you no favours
    To put it into context I would prefer Len McClusky as PM rather than Johnson and I thought there was no one I liked less than McClusky
    My only concern is that there are many conservative members that I totally oppose, but there are many of us who do not like being collectively referred to as you did

    I hope you accept some of us are just as despairing at the hard brexiteers in our party as you are
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    No - it is the Tories who need to get a grip. Seriously. You (Tories) are behaving ridiculously. Utterly ridiculously. The more we see of those who are or who have been in Cabinet the more we see people who are ignorant, incompetent and woefully lacking in any talent. We see arrogance and a total lack of concern for those likely to be impacted by a policy (and that is to be polite) which you cannot explain, for which you have no plan and in respect of which your spokesmen are talking verifiable nonsense virtually every single time you open your mouths.

    You Tories are contemptible in the way you are behaving. You are exhausted, out of ideas, confused, directionless and divided. You are out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people who do worry about the future, about jobs, about their children and their future, about homes and savings. You are destroying what remains of your USP and in your complacency and arrogance think that Corbyn is so much worse that voters will have no option but to choose you. You are so mistaken. You are desperate to escape the trap you've fallen into and are thrashing around. It is pitiful and concerning watching this happen in a country which used to be a by-word for pragmatism and common-sense.

    "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

    I'm tired, yes. But above all I'm furious at the way your wretched party is wilfully gambling with my children's futures. You will not be easily - if ever - forgiven. Not by me anyway.

    Post of the decade.
    And it all comes back to the shrunken state of the party. A mere 160k members. When there were two million in 1950s.

    It is hollow.

    And that is a terrible reflection on wider society.

    Bowling alone...
    But as the Mount article argues, compare and contrast with National Trust membership, or Green or Labour Party membership.

    The Tory Party is hollowed out.
    It is no longer fit for purpose.

    For those of us of broadly centre right instincts, that is a pity.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    nico67 said:

    So what Johnson said about Muslim women and flag waving picanninies was really what’s going on in his head . Oh dear !

    Do we add the Libya comments on clearing up the corpses to make a beach resort , gay marriage as bestiality and the rest aswell !

    I can see why his handlers or should they be called babysitters want to keep him away from the cameras and any debate .

    The more he talks the worse it gets !

    One of his key backers told me a few months ago that dealing with Boris is like “wrangling a toddler”
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    RobD said:
    Don't be giving it a German name. You'll only set them off.
    To be pedantic, unless we are attempting to measure its position and/or momentum, I think it should be Schrödinger's Withdrawal Agreement.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576

    Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?

    It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.
    Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?
    Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.
    Yep. But at least they can say they bore witness to the end of the Conservative Party.
    We already know that is a price they are willing to pay for Brexit. Apparently they are also prepared to block (the wrong) Brexit to see the end of the Conservative party. And these are the ones who think others are in the wrong party!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Charles said:

    nico67 said:

    So what Johnson said about Muslim women and flag waving picanninies was really what’s going on in his head . Oh dear !

    Do we add the Libya comments on clearing up the corpses to make a beach resort , gay marriage as bestiality and the rest aswell !

    I can see why his handlers or should they be called babysitters want to keep him away from the cameras and any debate .

    The more he talks the worse it gets !

    One of his key backers told me a few months ago that dealing with Boris is like “wrangling a toddler”
    Don’t give a toddler the nuclear codes.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    No - it is the Tories who need to get a grip. Seriously. You (Tories) are behaving ridiculously. Utterly ridiculously. The more we see of those who are or who have been in Cabinet the more we see people who are ignorant, incompetent and woefully lacking in any talent. We see arrogance and a total lack of concern for those likely to be impacted by a policy (and that is to be polite) which you cannot explain, for which you have no plan and in respect of which your spokesmen are talking verifiable nonsense virtually every single time you open your mouths.

    You Tories are contemptible in the way you are behaving. You are exhausted, out of ideas, confused, directionless and divided. You are out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people who do worry about the future, about jobs, about their children and their future, about homes and savings. You are destroying what remains of your USP and in your complacency and arrogance think that Corbyn is so much worse that voters will have no option but to choose you. You are so mistaken. You are desperate to escape the trap you've fallen into and are thrashing around. It is pitiful and concerning watching this happen in a country which used to be a by-word for pragmatism and common-sense.

    "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

    I'm tired, yes. But above all I'm furious at the way your wretched party is wilfully gambling with my children's futures. You will not be easily - if ever - forgiven. Not by me anyway.

    You know I’m not a Tory, right? Haven’t been a member since IDS was elected
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    nico67 said:

    So what Johnson said about Muslim women and flag waving picanninies was really what’s going on in his head . Oh dear !

    Do we add the Libya comments on clearing up the corpses to make a beach resort , gay marriage as bestiality and the rest aswell !

    I can see why his handlers or should they be called babysitters want to keep him away from the cameras and any debate .

    The more he talks the worse it gets !

    One of his key backers told me a few months ago that dealing with Boris is like “wrangling a toddler”
    Don’t give a toddler the nuclear codes.
    Too late, one is already in the White House
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    And they say triangulation is dead...

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1143270115682725889
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:
    Don't be giving it a German name. You'll only set them off.
    To be pedantic, unless we are attempting to measure its position and/or momentum, I think it should be Schrödinger's Withdrawal Agreement.
    Duh, that's the one I was thinking of. Too tired!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Like a doomsday cult on here - the end is nigh nigh nigh !

    Cans of man up all round required.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576

    Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?

    It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.
    Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?
    Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.
    Which is why Boris needs a majority to deliver a Deal Brexit, the WA will never get through otherwise because of the DUP and 10-20 Tory ERG hardliners who are opposed to the WA in principle even without the backstop or the temporary Customs Union removed and about 6 Tory diehard Remainer hardliners who are now basically LDs in all but name
    Yes, but it is why May needed a bigger majority too. Wanting it doesn't make it happen. Needing it doesn't make it happen. And as May tested to destruction you cannot tell one group one thing and another something else without them noticing, and as much as you love Boris and believe in his ability to win a majority how does he campaign for a majority for deal Brexit when that deal will largely be what the Patels of the world insist is dead, and they will viciously fight back against any suggestion they must be overruled by the party getting a majority. Would that not just undermine the claw back of support from BXP, and make dozens of the current MPs mutinious?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Can a politician be prosecuted for gross malfeasance in a public office?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    nico67 said:

    So what Johnson said about Muslim women and flag waving picanninies was really what’s going on in his head . Oh dear !

    Do we add the Libya comments on clearing up the corpses to make a beach resort , gay marriage as bestiality and the rest aswell !

    I can see why his handlers or should they be called babysitters want to keep him away from the cameras and any debate .

    The more he talks the worse it gets !

    One of his key backers told me a few months ago that dealing with Boris is like “wrangling a toddler”
    Don’t give a toddler the nuclear codes.
    Too late, one is already in the White House
    I would be curious to know how his entrance interview to Oxford went.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    No - it is the Tories who need to get a grip. Seriously. You (Tories) are behaving ridiculously. Utterly ridiculously. The more we see of those who are or who have been in Cabinet the more we see people who are ignorant, incompetent and woefully lacking in any talent. We see arrogance and a total lack of concern for those likely to be impacted by a policy (and that is to be polite) which you cannot explain, for which you have no plan and in respect of which your spokesmen are talking verifiable nonsense virtually every single time you open your mouths.

    You Tories are contemptible in the way you are behaving. You are exhausted, out of ideas, confused, directionless and divided. You are out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people who do worry about the future, about jobs, about their children and their future, about homes and savings. You are destroying what remains of your USP and in your complacency and arrogance think that Corbyn is so much worse that voters will have no option but to choose you. You are so mistaken. You are desperate to escape the trap you've fallen into and are thrashing around. It is pitiful and concerning watching this happen in a country which used to be a by-word for pragmatism and common-sense.

    "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

    I'm tired, yes. But above all I'm furious at the way your wretched party is wilfully gambling with my children's futures. You will not be easily - if ever - forgiven. Not by me anyway.

    Post of the decade.
    And it all comes back to the shrunken state of the party. A mere 160k members. When there were two million in 1950s.

    It is hollow.

    And that is a terrible reflection on wider society.

    Bowling alone...
    But as the Mount article argues, compare and contrast with National Trust membership, or Green or Labour Party membership.

    The Tory Party is hollowed out.
    It is no longer fit for purpose.

    For those of us of broadly centre right instincts, that is a pity.
    If Boris wins Tory membership will go up guaranteed, as Labour membership went up under Corbyn.


    Indeed some new Tory members joined up precisely to vote for Boris
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    And @HYUFD thinks something different entirely again!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Anyone else's PB acting funny? Mine flashes each time I type a letter into the comment box :o Worried my computer is about to die....
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "To solve Britain's rudeness epidemic we need to start dressing well

    Celia Walden"

    (£)
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/solve-britains-rudeness-epidemic-need-start-dressing/
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    No - it is the Tories who need to get a grip. Seriously. You (Tories) are behaving ridiculously. Utterly ridiculously. The more we see of those who are or who have been in Cabinet the more we see people who are ignorant, incompetent and woefully lacking in any talent. We see arrogance and a total lack of concern for those likely to be impacted by a policy (and that is to be polite) which you cannot explain, for which you have no plan and in respect of which your spokesmen are talking verifiable nonsense virtually every single time you open your mouths.

    You Tories are contemptible in the way you are behaving. You are exhausted, out of ideas, confused, directionless and divided. You are out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people who do worry about the future, about jobs, about their children and their future, about homes and savings. You are destroying what remains of your USP and in your complacency and arrogance think that Corbyn is so much worse that voters will have no option but to choose you. You are so mistaken. You are desperate to escape the trap you've fallen into and are thrashing around. It is pitiful and concerning watching this happen in a country which used to be a by-word for pragmatism and common-sense.

    "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

    I'm tired, yes. But above all I'm furious at the way your wretched party is wilfully gambling with my children's futures. You will not be easily - if ever - forgiven. Not by me anyway.

    Post of the decade.
    And it all comes back to the shrunken state of the party. A mere 160k members. When there were two million in 1950s.

    It is hollow.

    And that is a terrible reflection on wider society.

    Bowling alone...
    But as the Mount article argues, compare and contrast with National Trust membership, or Green or Labour Party membership.

    The Tory Party is hollowed out.
    It is no longer fit for purpose.

    For those of us of broadly centre right instincts, that is a pity.
    If Boris wins Tory membership will go up guaranteed, as Labour membership went up under Corbyn
    All Boris kids to join?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    No - it is the Tories who need to get a grip. Seriously. You (Tories) are behaving ridiculously. Utterly ridiculously. The more we see of those who are or who have been in Cabinet the more we see people who are ignorant, incompetent and woefully lacking in any talent. We see arrogance and a total lack of concern for those likely to be impacted by a policy (and that is to be polite) which you cannot explain, for which you have no plan and in respect of which your spokesmen are talking verifiable nonsense virtually every single time you open your mouths.

    You Tories are contemptible in the way you are behaving. You are exhausted, out of ideas, confused, directionless and divided. You are out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people who do worry about the future, about jobs, about their children and their future, about homes and savings. You are destroying what remains of your USP and in your complacency and arrogance think that Corbyn is so much worse that voters will have no option but to choose you. You are so mistaken. You are desperate to escape the trap you've fallen into and are thrashing around. It is pitiful and concerning watching this happen in a country which used to be a by-word for pragmatism and common-sense.

    "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

    I'm tired, yes. But above all I'm furious at the way your wretched party is wilfully gambling with my children's futures. You will not be easily - if ever - forgiven. Not by me anyway.

    You know I’m not a Tory, right? Haven’t been a member since IDS was elected
    I had assumed you were.

    I mean every word I've written and it is aimed at the Tories - here and elsewhere - who have turned Brexit into their new religion. It is pathetic and idiotic. As is the policy they are now worshipping.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    RobD said:

    Anyone else's PB acting funny? Mine flashes each time I type a letter into the comment box :o Worried my computer is about to die....

    I'm still getting posts saying that Boris as PM is going to work out fine, so yeah...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1143266403967000576

    Has anyone told Pritti, Francios, Bone, IDS, Mogg etc etc about this classic US primary nominee swerve to the centre ground?

    It was pretty obvious from his Birmingham speech. His plan, such as it is, is to buy off the right with any sort of Brexit and then drop them and pitch to the centre. Just a shame he hasn’t coloured any of it in.
    Does he think the ERG wont destroy him as they have done May?
    Indeed. May already offered them any sort of Brexit and they (or rather the spartan rump of the ERG along with the Grievers) said up yours. They don't want any sort of Brexit - the ones who were willing to take any sort of Brexit in order to ensure it happened at all already caved in during MV3, including Boris, revealing what crap he had been talking for months beforehand. The rest want more than that. However unreasonable that may or may not be, they won't cave in with any old Brexit.
    Yep. But at least they can say they bore witness to the end of the Conservative Party.
    We already know that is a price they are willing to pay for Brexit. Apparently they are also prepared to block (the wrong) Brexit to see the end of the Conservative party. And these are the ones who think others are in the wrong party!
    Historians will wonder how the Conservative party championed joining the EU/EC in 1973 and yet 40 odd years later it destroyed itself on a mission to leave.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:



    This is all going to go so terribly well, isn't it?

    Scene opens with exhausted peasants pushing a cart through the mud

    [clang]. Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! [clang]

    For goodness sake @Cyclefree, get a grip!
    No - it is the Tories who need to get a grip. Seriously. You (Tories) are behaving ridiculously. Utterly ridiculously. The more we see of those who are or who have been in Cabinet the more we see people who are ignorant, incompetent and woefully lacking in any talent. We see arrogance and a total lack of concern for those likely to be impacted by a policy (and that is to be polite) which you cannot explain, for which you have no plan and in respect of which your spokesmen are talking verifiable nonsense virtually every single time you open your mouths.

    You Tories are contemptible in the way you are behaving. You are exhausted, out of ideas, confused, directionless and divided. You are out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people who do worry about the future, about jobs, about their children and their future, about homes and savings. You are destroying what remains of your USP and in your complacency and arrogance think that Corbyn is so much worse that voters will have no option but to choose you. You are so mistaken. You are desperate to escape the trap you've fallen into and are thrashing around. It is pitiful and concerning watching this happen in a country which used to be a by-word for pragmatism and common-sense.

    "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

    I'm tired, yes. But above all I'm furious at the way your wretched party is wilfully gambling with my children's futures. You will not be easily - if ever - forgiven. Not by me anyway.

    Post of the decade.
    And it all comes back to the shrunken state of the party. A mere 160k members. When there were two million in 1950s.

    It is hollow.

    And that is a terrible reflection on wider society.

    Bowling alone...
    But as the Mount article argues, compare and contrast with National Trust membership, or Green or Labour Party membership.

    The Tory Party is hollowed out.
    It is no longer fit for purpose.

    For those of us of broadly centre right instincts, that is a pity.
    If Boris wins Tory membership will go up guaranteed, as Labour membership went up under Corbyn.
    And that was for the better?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    Anyone else's PB acting funny? Mine flashes each time I type a letter into the comment box :o Worried my computer is about to die....

    I'm still getting posts saying that Boris as PM is going to work out fine, so yeah...
    I thought Robert had debugged that issue last week? :p
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    RobD said:

    Anyone else's PB acting funny? Mine flashes each time I type a letter into the comment box :o Worried my computer is about to die....

    I have that.

    Are you using Chrome?

    I think it is a Chrome recent update issue (I am now viewing on Firefox).
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Totally off topic - In a moment of madness earlier I said "Alexa, play the Ying Tong Song".

    - and it did. I still knew all the words even after over 60 years.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    I'm still getting posts saying that Boris as PM is going to work out fine, so yeah...

    According the Gordon Brown "the United Kingdom is in mortal danger".

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7176697/Former-Prime-Minister-GORDON-BROWN-fears-antagonistic-nationalism-mean-end-United-Kingdom.html
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