politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Gove moves into second place as the Tory MPs prepare to vote f
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A rich tapestry of local by-elections today. There are 3 deferred from May - a Con defence in Salford, a double Con defence in South Ribble, and 3 seats in a new ward in Forest of Dean. There are 4 normal by-elections - Labour defences in Merton and Wandsworth, and an Ind sitting as Labour in Isle of Wight.0
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Are Change UK still around or have they changed name again , seems to be the only change they can make 😁0
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Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/11416924296047083520 -
Boris has to go to the country for the mandate he needsCarlottaVance said:0 -
I've gone back to 1st principles in order to come out of the trees and take a look at the wood.TOPPING said:Yes. They have all fallen in behind the out by Oct 31st line. I struggle to see how they will manage that unless they are called Boris. But struggle with it any of them will have to and, in my very very humble opinion, we will not be leaving on October 31st or indeed at any other time with no deal.
Vive la WA!!!
We are leaving the EU. Because we have to. June 2016.
We are not leaving with No Deal. It would be insane. Boris is not insane.
We are therefore leaving with a Deal.
The only Deal, now or any time, is the Withdrawal Agreement.
Therefore we will be ratifying it.
This is as certain as anything in life can be.
But WHEN?
My assessment:
2019 - 25%
2020 - 50%
Later - 25%0 -
I've just done a thought experiment. If it was a Sophie's choice between the UK and the EU, I'd vote for the UK. I like both unions but the one nearer home is more precious to me.Casino_Royale said:
Not to me it’s not.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
By definition, it ceases to become Brexit if the Union is lost.0 -
Meanwhile @HYUFD is insistent that Boris is going to shaft the DUP. Good politics that.CarlottaVance said:0 -
If @HYUFD is referring to Rutte's interview on R4 this morning then that is not what he said. He said he would want to know why the extension was being sought and what difference what we were proposing to do was likely to make. That struck me as an entirely reasonable position.TOPPING said:
Boris refused and continues to refuse to guarantee that he would leave by October 31st. Don't mistake what you would like his position to be with what his position is.HYUFD said:Boris has continued to promise an October 31st deadline.
In any case Rutte joined Macron this morning in saying he would veto further extension beyond October unless something significantly different to the Withdrawal Agreement was proposed
As every Leaver on here has said and said again (and I appreciate you did not vote Leave), the UK could, simply, leave the EU at any time. Trash the agreements, or not enter into them, or...or. Just leave. And actually, I have a great deal of sympathy with that. As @isam often says - we voted to leave three years ago and we haven't left. Put aside the damage it might do to the economy, etc, we have not left and it is wholly within our power as, ahem, a sovereign nation, to leave.
And Boris, as PM could therefore guarantee to leave. And he didn't. And them's the facts.0 -
Fewer MPs voted for staying in the single market and EUref2 in the indicative votes than voted for the WA in MV3Gallowgate said:
Like free movement of people? Or a 2nd referendum?HYUFD said:
Boris has continued to promise an October 31st deadline.TOPPING said:
Maybe. But everyday he is becoming less clear about his October 31st deadline. I know you value polls, and in the absence of any other metric they can be useful. But was the poll you cite before or after his non-committal on guaranteeing leaving by October 31st. Was it before or after the ES endorsement?HYUFD said:
Boris slashes the Brexit Party back to 13% or less in the polls, all other remaining candidates keep the Brexit Party over 20% in the pollsTOPPING said:
They don't believe him. Farage will make a big play of not believing him. Do you oris?HYUFD said:
Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.TOPPING said:
If there is an election in the limited time available then Boris won't have had the opportunity to convince TBP that he really means it when he says he is going to leave by Oct 31st and Farage, Widdicombe, et al will be replaying his refusal to guarantee leaving by that date at every available opportunity.HYUFD said:
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDsSlackbladder said:
Hello Corbyn as PM...Philip_Thompson said:
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.eek said:
Bye bye majorityPhilip_Thompson said:
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.AlastairMeeks said:
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.TheScreamingEagles said:
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?AlastairMeeks said:If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Corbyn likely still leaks Remainers to LDs though even with his vague EUref2 promise
In any case Rutte joined Macron this morning in saying he would veto further extension beyond October unless something significantly different to the Withdrawal Agreement was proposed0 -
Gay "marriage" isn't my key concern.OllyT said:
Glad to see you so strongly supporting of a leader that supports same-sex marriage.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Would actually like to see Gove go through just so Boris could hammer him in the membership ballot. Then again, it would be great to see him eliminated today too.
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but not now!kjohnw said:
Boris has to go to the country for the mandate he needsCarlottaVance said:0 -
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/11416924296047083520 -
Boris can win a majority at a general election then ignore the DUP and deliver a FTA for GB and backstop for NI until a technical solution is found to the Irish borderGallowgate said:
Meanwhile @HYUFD is insistent that Boris is going to shaft the DUP. Good politics that.CarlottaVance said:0 -
"Con defence in Salford"slade said:A rich tapestry of local by-elections today. There are 3 deferred from May - a Con defence in Salford, a double Con defence in South Ribble, and 3 seats in a new ward in Forest of Dean. There are 4 normal by-elections - Labour defences in Merton and Wandsworth, and an Ind sitting as Labour in Isle of Wight.
Does not compute!0 -
Yes but how does the government survive the next six months?kinabalu said:
I've gone back to 1st principles in order to come out of the trees and take a look at the wood.TOPPING said:Yes. They have all fallen in behind the out by Oct 31st line. I struggle to see how they will manage that unless they are called Boris. But struggle with it any of them will have to and, in my very very humble opinion, we will not be leaving on October 31st or indeed at any other time with no deal.
Vive la WA!!!
We are leaving the EU. Because we have to. June 2016.
We are not leaving with No Deal. It would be insane. Boris is not insane.
We are therefore leaving with a Deal.
The only Deal, now or any time, is the Withdrawal Agreement.
Therefore we will be ratifying it.
This is as certain as anything in life can be.
But WHEN?
My assessment:
2019 - 25%
2020 - 50%
Later - 25%0 -
The kind that results in Jewish nurseries having security guards. Awful.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/11416924296047083520 -
Anyone betting on the fewest votes market. A bit of insider knowledge would make it a decent return.
Anyone on here see either Hunt or Gove odds a value bet?0 -
Incredible how enriched we are by diversity.Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
Thank you Tony!0 -
The risk of David Baddiel arriving?DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
After no deal is better than a Baddiel.0 -
Oh well, if it ends being a choice between Lying Johnson and the Cocaine Snorter I might just spoil a ballot for the first time in my life. Cock and balls graffiti here I come (if you excuse the expression)0
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Also known as gay marriage in the world of civilized peopleViceroy_of_Orange said:
Gay "marriage" isn't my key concern.OllyT said:
Glad to see you so strongly supporting of a leader that supports same-sex marriage.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Would actually like to see Gove go through just so Boris could hammer him in the membership ballot. Then again, it would be great to see him eliminated today too.
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There's a lot of Jewish voters in Kersal.SandyRentool said:
"Con defence in Salford"slade said:A rich tapestry of local by-elections today. There are 3 deferred from May - a Con defence in Salford, a double Con defence in South Ribble, and 3 seats in a new ward in Forest of Dean. There are 4 normal by-elections - Labour defences in Merton and Wandsworth, and an Ind sitting as Labour in Isle of Wight.
Does not compute!
Labour lost it in 2017 after a massive Con to Lab swing.
Cannot imagine why Labour lost such a seat.0 -
He would win on a campaign of leaving deal or no deal by 31/10SquareRoot said:
but not now!kjohnw said:
Boris has to go to the country for the mandate he needsCarlottaVance said:0 -
No form of marriage is Boris's concern.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Gay "marriage" isn't my key concern.OllyT said:
Glad to see you so strongly supporting of a leader that supports same-sex marriage.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Would actually like to see Gove go through just so Boris could hammer him in the membership ballot. Then again, it would be great to see him eliminated today too.
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Pillock.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Incredible how enriched we are by diversity.Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
Thank you Tony!0 -
I think the EU would be looking for any new leader for a breakthrough and if there was a glimmer of one they would extend. I don't think they want a no deal but I don't think they will reopen the WA in order to avoid one.DavidL said:
If @HYUFD is referring to Rutte's interview on R4 this morning then that is not what he said. He said he would want to know why the extension was being sought and what difference what we were proposing to do was likely to make. That struck me as an entirely reasonable position.TOPPING said:
Boris refused and continues to refuse to guarantee that he would leave by October 31st. Don't mistake what you would like his position to be with what his position is.HYUFD said:Boris has continued to promise an October 31st deadline.
In any case Rutte joined Macron this morning in saying he would veto further extension beyond October unless something significantly different to the Withdrawal Agreement was proposed
As every Leaver on here has said and said again (and I appreciate you did not vote Leave), the UK could, simply, leave the EU at any time. Trash the agreements, or not enter into them, or...or. Just leave. And actually, I have a great deal of sympathy with that. As @isam often says - we voted to leave three years ago and we haven't left. Put aside the damage it might do to the economy, etc, we have not left and it is wholly within our power as, ahem, a sovereign nation, to leave.
And Boris, as PM could therefore guarantee to leave. And he didn't. And them's the facts.0 -
Obviously a trading bet, and I am still green on everyone left in the competition but if he makes the head to head Gove's price is basically the perce yage chance of Boris fucking up and that has surely got to be a lot higher than 4%.Mysticrose said:0 -
Oh very good. But the story is quite shocking.Recidivist said:
The risk of David Baddiel arriving?DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
After no deal is better than a Baddiel.0 -
I don't like either name. My political philosophy is neither conservatism nor unionism. However it is the party that closest matches my beliefs. By name I prefer the name of the Australian equivalent of the party, the Liberal Party.eristdoof said:
The you cannot call yourself a conservative. It's not called the "Conservative and Unionist Party" for nothing.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
My political philosophy is one of classical liberalism. Aka nowadays libertarianism. I believe in small state both economically and socially. Socially I am very liberal and not conservative so the name of the party in the UK has always say uncomfortably with me.
I could quite happily also be an Orange Book Liberal Democrat but could never support a party that might go into coalition with Labour.0 -
You seemed pretty worked up about it a couple of days agoViceroy_of_Orange said:
Gay "marriage" isn't my key concern.OllyT said:
Glad to see you so strongly supporting of a leader that supports same-sex marriage.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Would actually like to see Gove go through just so Boris could hammer him in the membership ballot. Then again, it would be great to see him eliminated today too.
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Biden refuses to apologise for working with racist senators
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-486961260 -
I'm sure Labour will be on the case soon... er or later, much later.Anorak said:
The kind that results in Jewish nurseries having security guards. Awful.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/11416924296047083520 -
Standard NaCTSO drills. I would imagine more relevant in a Jewish school.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/11416924296047083520 -
That's exactly what I think (so you are probably wrong!)TOPPING said:
I think the EU would be looking for any new leader for a breakthrough and if there was a glimmer of one they would extend. I don't think they want a no deal but I don't think they will reopen the WA in order to avoid one.DavidL said:
If @HYUFD is referring to Rutte's interview on R4 this morning then that is not what he said. He said he would want to know why the extension was being sought and what difference what we were proposing to do was likely to make. That struck me as an entirely reasonable position.TOPPING said:
Boris refused and continues to refuse to guarantee that he would leave by October 31st. Don't mistake what you would like his position to be with what his position is.HYUFD said:Boris has continued to promise an October 31st deadline.
In any case Rutte joined Macron this morning in saying he would veto further extension beyond October unless something significantly different to the Withdrawal Agreement was proposed
As every Leaver on here has said and said again (and I appreciate you did not vote Leave), the UK could, simply, leave the EU at any time. Trash the agreements, or not enter into them, or...or. Just leave. And actually, I have a great deal of sympathy with that. As @isam often says - we voted to leave three years ago and we haven't left. Put aside the damage it might do to the economy, etc, we have not left and it is wholly within our power as, ahem, a sovereign nation, to leave.
And Boris, as PM could therefore guarantee to leave. And he didn't. And them's the facts.0 -
I mentioned it in passing. I'm more worked up by the fact we're still in the EU, that working class kids are suffering in poor comprehensive schools while the political class send theirs to private schools and the fact pensioners have to sell their homes to fund their own care as Osborne and Hammond hand bucket loads of cash over to corrupt countries abroad who wanted 'independence' from us.OllyT said:
You seemed pretty worked up about it a couple of days agoViceroy_of_Orange said:
Gay "marriage" isn't my key concern.OllyT said:
Glad to see you so strongly supporting of a leader that supports same-sex marriage.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Would actually like to see Gove go through just so Boris could hammer him in the membership ballot. Then again, it would be great to see him eliminated today too.
A true reflection though of how liberal and wet many on here are, that my comment on two guys playing pretend marriage was most picked up on.0 -
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.0 -
So is this more widespread? None of my kids have ever been asked to do such a thing, even immediately after Dunblane.TOPPING said:
Standard NaCTSO drills. I would imagine more relevant in a Jewish school.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/11416924296047083520 -
The membership of the Conservative and Unionist Party has been taken over. UKIPites/Faragists/BXP/fascist, call them what you like, but they ain't Conservatives in the true sense. It is like a scene from Star Trek where the Borg take over a planetTOPPING said:
If @Philip_Thompson is a member of the Conservative Party he will I'm sure shortly do the honourable thing and resign once he has read what it is there for and why.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps. yet those views are clearly widespread in the party. Brexit is worth more than the Union, the economy, the party. If you are batshit crazy. Thank goodness these people don't have anything politically important to for the next month or soTOPPING said:
He's not a Tory. He is some kind of English nationalist. Def not a Tory.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?0 -
If as Casino Royale has said, Brexit cannot be Brexit if it breaks the Union, perhaps we should call it Eexit0
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I, former Ukip member, pride myself on joining up immediately after the referendum and before Mr Banks hatched his plan. I could see what would need to be done, and here we are!Nigel_Foremain said:The membership of the Conservative and Unionist Party has been taken over. UKIPites/Faragists/BXP/fascist, call them what you like, but they ain't Conservatives in the true sense. It is like a scene from Star Trek where the Borg take over a planet
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Farasites.Nigel_Foremain said:
The membership of the Conservative and Unionist Party has been taken over. UKIPites/Faragists/BXP/fascist, call them what you like, but they ain't Conservatives in the true sense. It is like a scene from Star Trek where the Borg take over a planetTOPPING said:
If @Philip_Thompson is a member of the Conservative Party he will I'm sure shortly do the honourable thing and resign once he has read what it is there for and why.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps. yet those views are clearly widespread in the party. Brexit is worth more than the Union, the economy, the party. If you are batshit crazy. Thank goodness these people don't have anything politically important to for the next month or soTOPPING said:
He's not a Tory. He is some kind of English nationalist. Def not a Tory.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?0 -
The apple sure didn't fall far from the boorish dumbfuck tree.
https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1141696702618853378
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What has any of that got to do with the EU?Viceroy_of_Orange said:that working class kids are suffering in poor comprehensive schools while the political class send theirs to private schools and the fact pensioners have to sell their homes to fund their own care as Osborne and Hammond hand bucket loads of cash over to corrupt countries abroad who wanted 'independence' from us.
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But he hasn't. His language about 31/10 is the same as May's was about 29/3.HYUFD said:Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
To illustrate. Assume you and I live together - not romantically, just flat share - and we need eggs to make an omelette for dinner.
You: We need eggs.
Me: Yes, I know. I'm going to the shops now.
You: Great. And you'll get some eggs?
Me: It is very important that I get eggs. If I don't we won't be having an omelette.
You: Right. So you will be getting some then, will you?
Me: I am passionately committed to us having an omelette tonight.
You: Which requires eggs. You gonna make sure to get some?
Me: Nobody wants an egg free shopping expedition, least of all me.
You: Look - ARE YOU GETTING US SOME FUCKING EGGS OR NOT ??
Me: No comment. Let's talk about something else.0 -
I have backed the Tories on and off my entire adult lifetime. Though I've voted for multiple parties every time I voted for another it was with regret. But I've never been Borg. I have a selection of views I know are a minority within the party.Nigel_Foremain said:
The membership of the Conservative and Unionist Party has been taken over. UKIPites/Faragists/BXP/fascist, call them what you like, but they ain't Conservatives in the true sense. It is like a scene from Star Trek where the Borg take over a planetTOPPING said:
If @Philip_Thompson is a member of the Conservative Party he will I'm sure shortly do the honourable thing and resign once he has read what it is there for and why.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps. yet those views are clearly widespread in the party. Brexit is worth more than the Union, the economy, the party. If you are batshit crazy. Thank goodness these people don't have anything politically important to for the next month or soTOPPING said:
He's not a Tory. He is some kind of English nationalist. Def not a Tory.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I am an atheist, liberal republican. I believe in a small state and the power of individualism.0 -
What's even more depressing is that resistance seems a hell of a long way from being futile!Nigel_Foremain said:
The membership of the Conservative and Unionist Party has been taken over. UKIPites/Faragists/BXP/fascist, call them what you like, but they ain't Conservatives in the true sense. It is like a scene from Star Trek where the Borg take over a planetTOPPING said:
If @Philip_Thompson is a member of the Conservative Party he will I'm sure shortly do the honourable thing and resign once he has read what it is there for and why.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps. yet those views are clearly widespread in the party. Brexit is worth more than the Union, the economy, the party. If you are batshit crazy. Thank goodness these people don't have anything politically important to for the next month or soTOPPING said:
He's not a Tory. He is some kind of English nationalist. Def not a Tory.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?0 -
Well you are a dishonest twat then. I suspect you support Johnson as he will nicely reflect your warped morals. Leavers are liars and cheats. hardly news I guess.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
I, former Ukip member, pride myself on joining up immediately after the referendum and before Mr Banks hatched his plan. I could see what would need to be done, and here we are!Nigel_Foremain said:The membership of the Conservative and Unionist Party has been taken over. UKIPites/Faragists/BXP/fascist, call them what you like, but they ain't Conservatives in the true sense. It is like a scene from Star Trek where the Borg take over a planet
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unbelievable. Some people are seriously sickTheuniondivvie said:The apple sure didn't fall far from the boorish dumbfuck tree.
https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/11416967026188533780 -
They should have done. It is fairly recent but is being introduced around workplaces, schools, etc.DavidL said:
So is this more widespread? None of my kids have ever been asked to do such a thing, even immediately after Dunblane.TOPPING said:
Standard NaCTSO drills. I would imagine more relevant in a Jewish school.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
This is why the Jewish community is particularly aware:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9154350/Toulouse-shooting-little-girl-cornered-in-school-and-shot-in-head.html0 -
I think it was picked up more because of your claim that you were gay but disapproved of homosexual activities and had therefore committed yourself to celibacy and had no relationships, and so on and so forth, conjuring up the picture of someone tragically tortured by guilt about his own sexuality.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
I mentioned it in passing. I'm more worked up by the fact we're still in the EU, that working class kids are suffering in poor comprehensive schools while the political class send theirs to private schools and the fact pensioners have to sell their homes to fund their own care as Osborne and Hammond hand bucket loads of cash over to corrupt countries abroad who wanted 'independence' from us.OllyT said:
You seemed pretty worked up about it a couple of days agoViceroy_of_Orange said:
Gay "marriage" isn't my key concern.OllyT said:
Glad to see you so strongly supporting of a leader that supports same-sex marriage.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Would actually like to see Gove go through just so Boris could hammer him in the membership ballot. Then again, it would be great to see him eliminated today too.
A true reflection though of how liberal and wet many on here are, that my comment on two guys playing pretend marriage was most picked up on.
But I suspect that was just another bit of attention-seeking trollish nonsense.0 -
It all turns on whether the various independents in the Commons conclude that they want to do something else with their lives.nichomar said:
Yes but how does the government survive the next six months?kinabalu said:
I've gone back to 1st principles in order to come out of the trees and take a look at the wood.TOPPING said:Yes. They have all fallen in behind the out by Oct 31st line. I struggle to see how they will manage that unless they are called Boris. But struggle with it any of them will have to and, in my very very humble opinion, we will not be leaving on October 31st or indeed at any other time with no deal.
Vive la WA!!!
We are leaving the EU. Because we have to. June 2016.
We are not leaving with No Deal. It would be insane. Boris is not insane.
We are therefore leaving with a Deal.
The only Deal, now or any time, is the Withdrawal Agreement.
Therefore we will be ratifying it.
This is as certain as anything in life can be.
But WHEN?
My assessment:
2019 - 25%
2020 - 50%
Later - 25%0 -
I former Conservative member left after May became PM.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
I, former Ukip member, pride myself on joining up immediately after the referendum and before Mr Banks hatched his plan. I could see what would need to be done, and here we are!Nigel_Foremain said:The membership of the Conservative and Unionist Party has been taken over. UKIPites/Faragists/BXP/fascist, call them what you like, but they ain't Conservatives in the true sense. It is like a scene from Star Trek where the Borg take over a planet
I voted for Cameron in 2005 but won't have a vote this time.0 -
I hope you are enjoying your gap year in Spain with hassle free freedom of movement.Nigel_Foremain said:
Well you are a dishonest twat then. I suspect you support Johnson as he will nicely reflect your warped morals. Leavers are liars and cheats. hardly news I guess.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
I, former Ukip member, pride myself on joining up immediately after the referendum and before Mr Banks hatched his plan. I could see what would need to be done, and here we are!Nigel_Foremain said:The membership of the Conservative and Unionist Party has been taken over. UKIPites/Faragists/BXP/fascist, call them what you like, but they ain't Conservatives in the true sense. It is like a scene from Star Trek where the Borg take over a planet
0 -
Well aren't you nice.Nigel_Foremain said:
Well you are a dishonest twat then. I suspect you support Johnson as he will nicely reflect your warped morals. Leavers are liars and cheats. hardly news I guess.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
I, former Ukip member, pride myself on joining up immediately after the referendum and before Mr Banks hatched his plan. I could see what would need to be done, and here we are!Nigel_Foremain said:The membership of the Conservative and Unionist Party has been taken over. UKIPites/Faragists/BXP/fascist, call them what you like, but they ain't Conservatives in the true sense. It is like a scene from Star Trek where the Borg take over a planet
And yes, I will be voting for Mr Johnson. You can start filling in your Liberal Democrat membership form in the meantime.0 -
That's cool. You are an English nationalist. Now I appreciate that it must come as a shock to you that the party you hitherto supported (I am assuming?) holds completely different views to your own but now that you realise you are in the wrong party it is time to join, er, the English Nationalists. The Conservative Party doesn't want you. So in the words which I believe were used earlier today - so long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.0 -
I don't care whether you believe me or not. I was asked, and I answered.Chris said:I think it was picked up more because of your claim that you were gay but disapproved of homosexual activities and had therefore committed yourself to celibacy and had no relationships, and so on and so forth, conjuring up the picture of someone tragically tortured by guilt about his own sexuality.
But I suspect that was just another bit of attention-seeking trollish nonsense.
0 -
You are not a Conservative. At least you are more honest than the UKIPer above though.Philip_Thompson said:
I former Conservative member left after May became PM.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
I, former Ukip member, pride myself on joining up immediately after the referendum and before Mr Banks hatched his plan. I could see what would need to be done, and here we are!Nigel_Foremain said:The membership of the Conservative and Unionist Party has been taken over. UKIPites/Faragists/BXP/fascist, call them what you like, but they ain't Conservatives in the true sense. It is like a scene from Star Trek where the Borg take over a planet
I voted for Cameron in 2005 but won't have a vote this time.0 -
None look like prospects for the LibDems this week.slade said:A rich tapestry of local by-elections today. There are 3 deferred from May - a Con defence in Salford, a double Con defence in South Ribble, and 3 seats in a new ward in Forest of Dean. There are 4 normal by-elections - Labour defences in Merton and Wandsworth, and an Ind sitting as Labour in Isle of Wight.
0 -
He reportedly said:kinabalu said:
But he hasn't. His language about 31/10 is the same as May's was about 29/3.HYUFD said:Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
To illustrate. Assume you and I live together - not romantically, just flat share - and we need eggs to make an omelette for dinner.
You: We need eggs.
Me: Yes, I know. I'm going to the shops now.
You: Great. And you'll get some eggs?
Me: It is very important that I get eggs. If I don't we won't be having an omelette.
You: Right. So you will be getting some then, will you?
Me: I am passionately committed to us having an omelette tonight.
You: Which requires eggs. You gonna make sure to get some?
Me: Nobody wants an egg free shopping expedition, least of all me.
You: Look - ARE YOU GETTING US SOME FUCKING EGGS OR NOT ??
Me: No comment. Let's talk about something else.
"We will leave the EU on 31 October, deal or no deal."
It may be a lie, but is it really ambiguous?0 -
My kids are older now, only 1 left at school, but I've never heard of such a thing. I hesitate to say it doesn't happen in Scotland but I've never heard of it.TOPPING said:
They should have done. It is fairly recent but is being introduced around workplaces, schools, etc.DavidL said:
So is this more widespread? None of my kids have ever been asked to do such a thing, even immediately after Dunblane.TOPPING said:
Standard NaCTSO drills. I would imagine more relevant in a Jewish school.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
This is why the Jewish community is particularly aware:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9154350/Toulouse-shooting-little-girl-cornered-in-school-and-shot-in-head.html
Sadly, I can see why Jewish (and Muslim for that matter) dominated schools might think it necessary.0 -
If the Conservative Party doesn't want me they can say so.TOPPING said:
That's cool. You are an English nationalist. Now I appreciate that it must come as a shock to you that the party you hitherto supported (I am assuming?) holds completely different views to your own but now that you realise you are in the wrong party it is time to join, er, the English Nationalists. The Conservative Party doesn't want you. So in the words which I believe were used earlier today - so long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.
I'm also a republican who wants to abolish the monarchy.
I don't see why I need to slavishly follow the party line.0 -
@Philip_Thompson
I see that you have agreed that you are not a Conservative. Fair enough. Why did you behave and post (to @Nigel_Foremain who is, er, a Conservative - for now, like me) as though you were a party member?0 -
You want Brexit so which country can be sovereign - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? But you disavow the Union - so you don't care about the sovereignty of your country as you want to dismantle your country.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.
What specifically do you want to have sovereignty for? "England" has been an ever-evolving place as you know. When you seek nationhood for England do you include or exclude Wales? If its exclude then we're talking about pre-1535 England. In which case I assume you lay claim to Calais? Or perhaps gp further back and demand fealty of other parts of modern day France.
Tell you what. If you represent English Nationalism, I'll start a campaign to resurrect the Danelaw and the Kingdom of Strathclyde0 -
Well, if it's true, you really shouldn't be surprised that people have picked up on this particular screwed-up aspect of your personality more than any other.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
I don't care whether you believe me or not. I was asked, and I answered.Chris said:I think it was picked up more because of your claim that you were gay but disapproved of homosexual activities and had therefore committed yourself to celibacy and had no relationships, and so on and so forth, conjuring up the picture of someone tragically tortured by guilt about his own sexuality.
But I suspect that was just another bit of attention-seeking trollish nonsense.0 -
Anecdotally, a friend of mine is a teacher at a private school (not a particularly famous one). A couple of years back she complained she was having to give up a Saturday to go into school to undergo training in what to do if there was an attack.DavidL said:
So is this more widespread? None of my kids have ever been asked to do such a thing, even immediately after Dunblane.TOPPING said:
Standard NaCTSO drills. I would imagine more relevant in a Jewish school.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
One bit, oddly, was learning how to open the secure windows from the inside to allow them to open enough for people to get out. Something they didn't want the children knowing!
I hadn't heard of these sorts of drills, though.0 -
I said that earlier I'm a liberal not a conservative.Nigel_Foremain said:
You are not a Conservative. At least you are more honest than the UKIPer above though.Philip_Thompson said:
I former Conservative member left after May became PM.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
I, former Ukip member, pride myself on joining up immediately after the referendum and before Mr Banks hatched his plan. I could see what would need to be done, and here we are!Nigel_Foremain said:The membership of the Conservative and Unionist Party has been taken over. UKIPites/Faragists/BXP/fascist, call them what you like, but they ain't Conservatives in the true sense. It is like a scene from Star Trek where the Borg take over a planet
I voted for Cameron in 2005 but won't have a vote this time.
For most of my life I've been a Conservative because they are the most classics economically liberal party that exists today.0 -
No indeed. You maintain your independence from any party line. Just be yourself. Certainly PB would be a lot duller without your contributions but there is also the fact that as you have explained that your political ideals are batshit crazy, it explains a lot of your posts on anything and everything to date.Philip_Thompson said:
If the Conservative Party doesn't want me they can say so.TOPPING said:
That's cool. You are an English nationalist. Now I appreciate that it must come as a shock to you that the party you hitherto supported (I am assuming?) holds completely different views to your own but now that you realise you are in the wrong party it is time to join, er, the English Nationalists. The Conservative Party doesn't want you. So in the words which I believe were used earlier today - so long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.
I'm also a republican who wants to abolish the monarchy.
I don't see why I need to slavishly follow the party line.0 -
Indeed.DavidL said:
My kids are older now, only 1 left at school, but I've never heard of such a thing. I hesitate to say it doesn't happen in Scotland but I've never heard of it.TOPPING said:
They should have done. It is fairly recent but is being introduced around workplaces, schools, etc.DavidL said:
So is this more widespread? None of my kids have ever been asked to do such a thing, even immediately after Dunblane.TOPPING said:
Standard NaCTSO drills. I would imagine more relevant in a Jewish school.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
This is why the Jewish community is particularly aware:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9154350/Toulouse-shooting-little-girl-cornered-in-school-and-shot-in-head.html
Sadly, I can see why Jewish (and Muslim for that matter) dominated schools might think it necessary.
Quick google - https://scotland.police.uk/keep-safe/280693/0 -
I used to be a party member. I was for a very, very long time. I voted Cameron in 2005.TOPPING said:@Philip_Thompson
I see that you have agreed that you are not a Conservative. Fair enough. Why did you behave and post (to @Nigel_Foremain who is, er, a Conservative - for now, like me) as though you were a party member?
I hope to return "home" to the Conservatives when authoritarian May is gone.
I have supported the Conservatives in the UK and Liberals in Australia the vast majority of my life. Spiritually I feel they are my party even if I can't support them under Theresa May.
The name is not important. Liberal in Aus or Conservative in UK I support the economically liberal and socially liberal right wing.0 -
You should ask your childrens' school or your workplace about them; there will be someone at those institutions who is the coordinator. The NaCTSO website is a great resource. They run frequent workshops and so forth.JosiasJessop said:
Anecdotally, a friend of mine is a teacher at a private school (not a particularly famous one). A couple of years back she complained she was having to give up a Saturday to go into school to undergo training in what to do if there was an attack.DavidL said:
So is this more widespread? None of my kids have ever been asked to do such a thing, even immediately after Dunblane.TOPPING said:
Standard NaCTSO drills. I would imagine more relevant in a Jewish school.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
One bit, oddly, was learning how to open the secure windows from the inside to allow them to open enough for people to get out. Something they didn't want the children knowing!
I hadn't heard of these sorts of drills, though.0 -
In an ideal world I would want English independence using England as defined today. I would like to see Wales and Scotland as friendly neighbours.RochdalePioneers said:
You want Brexit so which country can be sovereign - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? But you disavow the Union - so you don't care about the sovereignty of your country as you want to dismantle your country.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.
What specifically do you want to have sovereignty for? "England" has been an ever-evolving place as you know. When you seek nationhood for England do you include or exclude Wales? If its exclude then we're talking about pre-1535 England. In which case I assume you lay claim to Calais? Or perhaps gp further back and demand fealty of other parts of modern day France.
Tell you what. If you represent English Nationalism, I'll start a campaign to resurrect the Danelaw and the Kingdom of Strathclyde
But if the Welsh and Scots don't want independence I don't mind them tagging along with us that much.0 -
Not seeing anything like this kind of drill mentioned there (although I accept that it is a possible response to preparedness of your building).TOPPING said:
Indeed.DavidL said:
My kids are older now, only 1 left at school, but I've never heard of such a thing. I hesitate to say it doesn't happen in Scotland but I've never heard of it.TOPPING said:
They should have done. It is fairly recent but is being introduced around workplaces, schools, etc.DavidL said:
So is this more widespread? None of my kids have ever been asked to do such a thing, even immediately after Dunblane.TOPPING said:
Standard NaCTSO drills. I would imagine more relevant in a Jewish school.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
This is why the Jewish community is particularly aware:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9154350/Toulouse-shooting-little-girl-cornered-in-school-and-shot-in-head.html
Sadly, I can see why Jewish (and Muslim for that matter) dominated schools might think it necessary.
Quick google - https://scotland.police.uk/keep-safe/280693/0 -
What is crazy? I'm consistent.TOPPING said:
No indeed. You maintain your independence from any party line. Just be yourself. Certainly PB would be a lot duller without your contributions but there is also the fact that as you have explained that your political ideals are batshit crazy, it explains a lot of your posts on anything and everything to date.Philip_Thompson said:
If the Conservative Party doesn't want me they can say so.TOPPING said:
That's cool. You are an English nationalist. Now I appreciate that it must come as a shock to you that the party you hitherto supported (I am assuming?) holds completely different views to your own but now that you realise you are in the wrong party it is time to join, er, the English Nationalists. The Conservative Party doesn't want you. So in the words which I believe were used earlier today - so long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.
I'm also a republican who wants to abolish the monarchy.
I don't see why I need to slavishly follow the party line.0 -
I have not heard him say that on TV or in parliament. If he phrases it like that - "deal or no deal" - this is stronger than May's language about 29 March.Chris said:He reportedly said:
"We will leave the EU on 31 October, deal or no deal."
It may be a lie, but is it really ambiguous?
She never went beyond "We will be leaving the European Union on 29th March."
The kicker "deal or no deal" makes a difference. It moves it closer to a guarantee that if he is thwarted in the objective he will call a general election.
I know many on here think that he will.
What do you think?0 -
Heavy burden but it is what it is.Chris said:Well, if it's true, you really shouldn't be surprised that people have picked up on this particular screwed-up aspect of your personality more than any other.
Hopefully those Russians are working on a cure as we speak.
0 -
This has to be a troll...Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Heavy burden but it is what it is.Chris said:Well, if it's true, you really shouldn't be surprised that people have picked up on this particular screwed-up aspect of your personality more than any other.
Hopefully those Russians are working on a cure as we speak.0 -
I am puzzled why the same PBers who thought it was a jolly jape that £3 entryists got a vote in the Labour leadership election are now indignant that various far-right entryists will get a vote in the Conservative leadership election.
Not that it matters when your long-standing membership is full of swivel-eyed loons who will genuflect at the altar of Bozo anyway.0 -
I think the concept of English nationalism is consistent of course. But it is a crazy position to take. IMO.Philip_Thompson said:
What is crazy? I'm consistent.TOPPING said:
No indeed. You maintain your independence from any party line. Just be yourself. Certainly PB would be a lot duller without your contributions but there is also the fact that as you have explained that your political ideals are batshit crazy, it explains a lot of your posts on anything and everything to date.Philip_Thompson said:
If the Conservative Party doesn't want me they can say so.TOPPING said:
That's cool. You are an English nationalist. Now I appreciate that it must come as a shock to you that the party you hitherto supported (I am assuming?) holds completely different views to your own but now that you realise you are in the wrong party it is time to join, er, the English Nationalists. The Conservative Party doesn't want you. So in the words which I believe were used earlier today - so long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.
I'm also a republican who wants to abolish the monarchy.
I don't see why I need to slavishly follow the party line.
And as @RochdalePioneers has asked, where do you, literally, draw the line for England given its association with its neighbours over the past few centuries?
But the good news is that you prove the concept as you are the very definition of the Little Englander that Cameron said was a typical Leave voter.0 -
Obvious troll is obvious.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Heavy burden but it is what it is.Chris said:Well, if it's true, you really shouldn't be surprised that people have picked up on this particular screwed-up aspect of your personality more than any other.
Hopefully those Russians are working on a cure as we speak.
0 -
If your God can't cure you, I'm afraid the Russians don't stand much chance. ;-)Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Heavy burden but it is what it is.Chris said:Well, if it's true, you really shouldn't be surprised that people have picked up on this particular screwed-up aspect of your personality more than any other.
Hopefully those Russians are working on a cure as we speak.0 -
Remind me - which of those votes was heavily whipped and which were free votes?HYUFD said:
Fewer MPs voted for staying in the single market and EUref2 in the indicative votes than voted for the WA in MV3Gallowgate said:
Like free movement of people? Or a 2nd referendum?HYUFD said:
Boris has continued to promise an October 31st deadline.TOPPING said:
Maybe. But everyday he is becoming less clear about his October 31st deadline. I know you value polls, and in the absence of any other metric they can be useful. But was the poll you cite before or after his non-committal on guaranteeing leaving by October 31st. Was it before or after the ES endorsement?HYUFD said:
Boris slashes the Brexit Party back to 13% or less in the polls, all other remaining candidates keep the Brexit Party over 20% in the pollsTOPPING said:
They don't believe him. Farage will make a big play of not believing him. Do you oris?HYUFD said:
Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.TOPPING said:
If there is an election in the limited time available then Boris won't have had the opportunity to convince TBP that he really means it when he says he is going to leave by Oct 31st and Farage, Widdicombe, et al will be replaying his refusal to guarantee leaving by that date at every available opportunity.HYUFD said:
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDsSlackbladder said:
Hello Corbyn as PM...Philip_Thompson said:
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.eek said:
Bye bye majorityPhilip_Thompson said:
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.AlastairMeeks said:
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Corbyn likely still leaks Remainers to LDs though even with his vague EUref2 promise
In any case Rutte joined Macron this morning in saying he would veto further extension beyond October unless something significantly different to the Withdrawal Agreement was proposed0 -
you are not an Orange Book Lbieral Democrat, mate, believe me. We want a) the union and b) membership of the EU. On neither count would you fit in.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't like either name. My political philosophy is neither conservatism nor unionism. However it is the party that closest matches my beliefs. By name I prefer the name of the Australian equivalent of the party, the Liberal Party.eristdoof said:
The you cannot call yourself a conservative. It's not called the "Conservative and Unionist Party" for nothing.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
My political philosophy is one of classical liberalism. Aka nowadays libertarianism. I believe in small state both economically and socially. Socially I am very liberal and not conservative so the name of the party in the UK has always say uncomfortably with me.
I could quite happily also be an Orange Book Liberal Democrat but could never support a party that might go into coalition with Labour.0 -
I regret that as a former long-term member my great distaste for authoritarian May means I won't get a vote now.SandyRentool said:I am puzzled why the same PBers who thought it was a jolly jape that £3 entryists got a vote in the Labour leadership election are now indignant that various far-right entryists will get a vote in the Conservative leadership election.
Not that it matters when your long-standing membership is full of swivel-eyed loons who will genuflect at the altar of Bozo anyway.
Ironically I joined pre-Cameron as I was that disgusted that the members had gone for IDS over Ken Clarke that I joined to get a vote next time. Was happy then to vote for Cameron over DD.0 -
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No more of a lie than the same sentence with '29th March' substituted.Chris said:
He reportedly said:kinabalu said:
But he hasn't. His language about 31/10 is the same as May's was about 29/3.HYUFD said:Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
To illustrate. Assume you and I live together - not romantically, just flat share - and we need eggs to make an omelette for dinner.
You: We need eggs.
Me: Yes, I know. I'm going to the shops now.
You: Great. And you'll get some eggs?
Me: It is very important that I get eggs. If I don't we won't be having an omelette.
You: Right. So you will be getting some then, will you?
Me: I am passionately committed to us having an omelette tonight.
You: Which requires eggs. You gonna make sure to get some?
Me: Nobody wants an egg free shopping expedition, least of all me.
You: Look - ARE YOU GETTING US SOME FUCKING EGGS OR NOT ??
Me: No comment. Let's talk about something else.
"We will leave the EU on 31 October, deal or no deal."
It may be a lie, but is it really ambiguous?0 -
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This bit - https://scotland.police.uk/keep-safe/280693/stay-safe-firearms-and-weapons-attackDavidL said:
Not seeing anything like this kind of drill mentioned there (although I accept that it is a possible response to preparedness of your building).TOPPING said:
Indeed.DavidL said:
My kids are older now, only 1 left at school, but I've never heard of such a thing. I hesitate to say it doesn't happen in Scotland but I've never heard of it.TOPPING said:
They should have done. It is fairly recent but is being introduced around workplaces, schools, etc.DavidL said:
So is this more widespread? None of my kids have ever been asked to do such a thing, even immediately after Dunblane.TOPPING said:
Standard NaCTSO drills. I would imagine more relevant in a Jewish school.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
This is why the Jewish community is particularly aware:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9154350/Toulouse-shooting-little-girl-cornered-in-school-and-shot-in-head.html
Sadly, I can see why Jewish (and Muslim for that matter) dominated schools might think it necessary.
Quick google - https://scotland.police.uk/keep-safe/280693/
It stems from the "run, hide, tell" ("run, hide, fight" in the US) strategy. There are different drills for institutions such as schools for obvious reasons.0 -
Glanced in for the latest thinking on the election, and find umpteen posts debating the personal merits of Philip Thompson and anonymous poster Viceroy. Suggestion: let them be whatever they like and let's concentrate on what's happening to our country?1
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I don't know. I think his antics - and the antics of most of the other leadership contenders - defy rational analysis.kinabalu said:
I have not heard him say that on TV or in parliament. If he phrases it like that - "deal or no deal" - this is stronger than May's language about 29 March.Chris said:He reportedly said:
"We will leave the EU on 31 October, deal or no deal."
It may be a lie, but is it really ambiguous?
She never went beyond "We will be leaving the European Union on 29th March."
The kicker "deal or no deal" makes a difference. It moves it closer to a guarantee that if he is thwarted in the objective he will call a general election.
I know many on here think that he will.
What do you think?
This was my source for that phrase, by the way:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/boris-johnson/news/104142/boris-johnson-says-brexit0 -
Did Theresa May ever say "We will leave the EU on 29 March, deal or no deal"?logical_song said:
No more of a lie than the same sentence with '29th March' substituted.Chris said:
He reportedly said:kinabalu said:
But he hasn't. His language about 31/10 is the same as May's was about 29/3.HYUFD said:Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
To illustrate. Assume you and I live together - not romantically, just flat share - and we need eggs to make an omelette for dinner.
You: We need eggs.
Me: Yes, I know. I'm going to the shops now.
You: Great. And you'll get some eggs?
Me: It is very important that I get eggs. If I don't we won't be having an omelette.
You: Right. So you will be getting some then, will you?
Me: I am passionately committed to us having an omelette tonight.
You: Which requires eggs. You gonna make sure to get some?
Me: Nobody wants an egg free shopping expedition, least of all me.
You: Look - ARE YOU GETTING US SOME FUCKING EGGS OR NOT ??
Me: No comment. Let's talk about something else.
"We will leave the EU on 31 October, deal or no deal."
It may be a lie, but is it really ambiguous?
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He’s picked a photo of Enoch Powell. Of course he is a troll.JosiasJessop said:
Obvious troll is obvious.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Heavy burden but it is what it is.Chris said:Well, if it's true, you really shouldn't be surprised that people have picked up on this particular screwed-up aspect of your personality more than any other.
Hopefully those Russians are working on a cure as we speak.0 -
FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
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@Philip_Thompson is advocating a particular political direction for our country and hence it is a legitimate discussion. The Viceroy no idea I haven't been following.NickPalmer said:Glanced in for the latest thinking on the election, and find umpteen posts debating the personal merits of Philip Thompson and anonymous poster Viceroy. Suggestion: let them be whatever they like and let's concentrate on what's happening to our country?
Plus since when has PB had a strict set of rules as to what can and can't be discussed?!0 -
+1NickPalmer said:Glanced in for the latest thinking on the election, and find umpteen posts debating the personal merits of Philip Thompson and anonymous poster Viceroy. Suggestion: let them be whatever they like and let's concentrate on what's happening to our country?
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Is Scottish nationalism crazy? Or is only English nationalism crazy?TOPPING said:I think the concept of English nationalism is consistent of course. But it is a crazy position to take. IMO.
And as @RochdalePioneers has asked, where do you, literally, draw the line for England given its association with its neighbours over the past few centuries?
But the good news is that you prove the concept as you are the very definition of the Little Englander that Cameron said was a typical Leave voter.
I draw the line for England at its current boundaries.
Well yes the logic that drives me to independence in both votes is consistently the same. To me it only logical. If I was a unionist who believed large unions were better than I would back Remain and No on independence.
What strikes me as completely illogical is the people who ardently support one union while opposing the other. EG Tory unionists who want to leave the EU . . . or SNP nationalists who want independence but to stay in the EU. The two positions contradict each other.0 -
As I said before, you are definitely not a ConservativePhilip_Thompson said:
In an ideal world I would want English independence using England as defined today. I would like to see Wales and Scotland as friendly neighbours.RochdalePioneers said:
You want Brexit so which country can be sovereign - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? But you disavow the Union - so you don't care about the sovereignty of your country as you want to dismantle your country.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.
What specifically do you want to have sovereignty for? "England" has been an ever-evolving place as you know. When you seek nationhood for England do you include or exclude Wales? If its exclude then we're talking about pre-1535 England. In which case I assume you lay claim to Calais? Or perhaps gp further back and demand fealty of other parts of modern day France.
Tell you what. If you represent English Nationalism, I'll start a campaign to resurrect the Danelaw and the Kingdom of Strathclyde
But if the Welsh and Scots don't want independence I don't mind them tagging along with us that much.0 -
I'm afraid Enoch Powell is genuinely still revered in parts of the Black Country. People really do still say "Enoch was right."IanB2 said:
He’s picked a photo of Enoch Powell. Of course he is a troll.JosiasJessop said:
Obvious troll is obvious.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Heavy burden but it is what it is.Chris said:Well, if it's true, you really shouldn't be surprised that people have picked up on this particular screwed-up aspect of your personality more than any other.
Hopefully those Russians are working on a cure as we speak.1 -
I’ve suggested that a couple of times but it’s difficult not to react to some of the outpourings. You find you’ve responded before your ember you where going to resist.NickPalmer said:Glanced in for the latest thinking on the election, and find umpteen posts debating the personal merits of Philip Thompson and anonymous poster Viceroy. Suggestion: let them be whatever they like and let's concentrate on what's happening to our country?
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