politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The revolution will not be televised
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"Party WOT sorts it out", surelyIshmael_Z said:
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.williamglenn said:“Everyone must die”
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/1140327538775994368
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And he's not being Borisphobic there, since the same would be true of Gove for the good ydoethur.ydoethur said:
Me.Philip_Thompson said:
I doubt many if any.kle4 said:
And how many who voted Tory in 2017 would definitely not vote Tory is Boris was leader?HYUFD said:
OK quick question.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He wouldHYUFD said:
That only works though if he wins more votes from non Tories than the 2017 Tories he still loses to the Brexit PartyFoxy said:
Stewart is the only one who could win votes from non Tories. Just as well he is going to lose.nichomar said:Stewart grows by the day despite his Elton background doesn’t come over as a toff, too good for the Tory’s
How many PBers who voted Labour or LD or Green or SNP in 2017 would definitely vote Tory at the next general election if Rory Stewart was Tory leader?0 -
Didn't watch but I suspect Malc's judgement is correct.malcolmg said:I hav elistened to Stewart today and he is a complete tosser, dull as ditchwater and nothing to bring to the party other than being a TOFF. What is wrong with people on here.
Thing is PB (Remain Central) is not the target audience. The target audience are Con MPs and then Con members...
I doubt all those Con members/voters who have switched to the Brexit Party think much to Rory The Tory... And we know most of them agree with Raab and Boris on No Deal...0 -
That Jeremy Hunt poster is horrific. Older voters know they're going to die but would rather not have a politician tell them so !!!!!!!0
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"Party WOT sorts it out, innit" to secure the yoof vote.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Party WOT sorts it out", surelyIshmael_Z said:
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.williamglenn said:“Everyone must die”
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/11403275387759943680 -
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.stodge said:Evening again all
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
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My scores .
Stewart 7/10 didn’t try some emotional claptrap , looked the most genuine .
Hunt 6/10 did okay but went all Trumpian at the end with his greatest country guff .
Javid 6/10 better than I expected .
Gove 3/10 too needy , overly sincere , looked desperate , wheeled the dad story out again , pass me the sick bag .
Raab 1/10 creepy , suspending parliament crashed and burned in the studio .0 -
“Sometimes I just care too much”Roger said:
Jeremy Hunt didn't even try to disguise it. Just repeated the question and went through his qualities!Foxy said:
Yes, as someone who does a lot of interviewing, I hate it when people give a strength as a weakness, as did all the others apart from Stewart. Instantly marked down.nico67 said:Stewart knocks it out of the park with his response to the weakness question .
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What is a 'Brexit worth having' ?geoffw said:
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.stodge said:Evening again all
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I can't remember seeing that on the ballot paper. 0 -
As a rule, it's easier to get a job when you've already got a job. Simply, you have more leverage.Philip_Thompson said:
Sound move if you are not happy with your old job.Gallowgate said:Imagine negotiating with your boss over pay and threatening to resign if they don't agree with all your demands, but with no other job offer in the pipeline. They call your bluff, and then you can't pay your mortgage.
But at least you showed them you were willing to walk away...
Many, many people will have done exactly that.
That's probably true in trade negotiations too.2 -
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.TudorRose said:
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.fitalass said:
Seconded.JackW said:Overall Scores on the doors :
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10
2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10
3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10
4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10
5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.0 -
Well that is a very difficult thing to define. For 90% of Tory MPs, including the majority of the ERG, the WA was a Brexit worth having, albeit barely worth having, but they did vote for it. So if he said he could deliver the WA, that is provably a Brexit they thought was worth having.geoffw said:
But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.stodge said:Evening again all
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
However, as much as I like how Rory has campaign stodge is right that he is far from clear on how he would move things forward. In that respect, he is just like the other candidates with vague promises that it will all work out with them. While I dislike Boris, and do not think polling is reliable, at least MPs can think he might save them even if he has as little genuine plans as the others.0 -
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.0
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It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
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Any Leaver who volunteers to go on Ch4 News is on a hiding to nothing. Unless they want to be seen as someone rowing with lefties for publicity, they'd be mad to appear. Boris needs to avoid landmines, and wisely did so tonight IMOTOPPING said:
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.TudorRose said:
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.fitalass said:
Seconded.JackW said:Overall Scores on the doors :
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10
2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10
3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10
4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10
5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.0 -
I disagree with your first sentence. I got my current job largely because I was available immediately and had the flexibility to move to a new location without giving the standard notice (which in my line of work is 3 months).rcs1000 said:
As a rule, it's easier to get a job when you've already got a job. Simply, you have more leverage.Philip_Thompson said:
Sound move if you are not happy with your old job.Gallowgate said:Imagine negotiating with your boss over pay and threatening to resign if they don't agree with all your demands, but with no other job offer in the pipeline. They call your bluff, and then you can't pay your mortgage.
But at least you showed them you were willing to walk away...
Many, many people will have done exactly that.
That's probably true in trade negotiations too.0 -
Not BINO.JosiasJessop said:
What is a 'Brexit worth having' ?geoffw said:
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.stodge said:Evening again all
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I can't remember seeing that on the ballot paper.
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Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
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It's the same as "a Brexit to Remember" as in "a Night to Remember," the film about the Titanic. Coming soon to a cinema near you...JosiasJessop said:
What is a 'Brexit worth having' ?geoffw said:
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.stodge said:Evening again all
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I can't remember seeing that on the ballot paper.0 -
Yes, it's the second sentence that makes it. While it is clear what they mean by 'sort it out' you can very easily read it in other ways.Ishmael_Z said:
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.williamglenn said:“Everyone must die”
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/11403275387759943680 -
If Boris is leader I won't vote Tory.kle4 said:
And he's not being Borisphobic there, since the same would be true of Gove for the good ydoethur.ydoethur said:
Me.Philip_Thompson said:
I doubt many if any.kle4 said:
And how many who voted Tory in 2017 would definitely not vote Tory is Boris was leader?HYUFD said:
OK quick question.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He wouldHYUFD said:
That only works though if he wins more votes from non Tories than the 2017 Tories he still loses to the Brexit PartyFoxy said:
Stewart is the only one who could win votes from non Tories. Just as well he is going to lose.nichomar said:Stewart grows by the day despite his Elton background doesn’t come over as a toff, too good for the Tory’s
How many PBers who voted Labour or LD or Green or SNP in 2017 would definitely vote Tory at the next general election if Rory Stewart was Tory leader?
If Gove is leader I would vote for Labour, even if the pea-brained apologist for racism and terrorism is still in charge.0 -
Should have been more specific with the question then, shouldn't you? Maybe should have came up with a plan and a manifesto before hand? Just some suggestions.geoffw said:
Not BINO.JosiasJessop said:
What is a 'Brexit worth having' ?geoffw said:
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.stodge said:Evening again all
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I can't remember seeing that on the ballot paper.0 -
@MikeSmithson 12/1 Rory to make the final 2 looking good. 3.3 on BF now
If I had bigger cojones I could have laid Hunt at 1.48 for more. Someone wanted 3k. In the end laid 1.48 for a £200 but backed 1.62 for £100... 2.74 now0 -
Johnson will be trying to ensure he is knocked out.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
Personally I think Stewart might just make it over the threshold.0 -
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.0 -
No doubt to become known as Hunt's "The Old Must Die" moment.....Ishmael_Z said:
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.williamglenn said:“Everyone must die”
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/11403275387759943680 -
When they do get to the final two there's a whole bunch of hustings, but how do these things actually go? Do they just make a pitch to local party meetings, or will they go head to head in front of members? Because the biggest weakness of Boris would be when he is challenged, and if it is just two people talking vaguely positive nonsense he wins that race at a canter.0
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No he’s a spineless buffoon who wants to avoid scrutiny . If he can’t cope with what was a very respectful audience on a tv debate pray tell how he’ll cope with 27 EU leaders .isam said:
Any Leaver who volunteers to go on Ch4 News is on a hiding to nothing. Unless they want to be seen as someone rowing with lefties for publicity, they'd be mad to appear. Boris needs to avoid landmines, and wisely did so tonight IMOTOPPING said:
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.TudorRose said:
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.fitalass said:
Seconded.JackW said:Overall Scores on the doors :
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10
2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10
3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10
4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10
5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
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Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.TOPPING said:
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.TudorRose said:
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.fitalass said:
Seconded.JackW said:Overall Scores on the doors :
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10
2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10
3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10
4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10
5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.0 -
Hah, I see we did exactly the same thing on Hunt pretty much. I thought his 1st round result was pretty decent, the market disagreed!isam said:@MikeSmithson 12/1 Rory to make the final 2 looking good. 3.3 on BF now
If I had bigger cojones I could have laid Hunt at 1.48 for more. Someone wanted 3k. In the end laid 1.48 for a £200 but backed 1.62 for £100... 2.74 now
Rory Stewart's odds are nuts. Not that they are too short (though I think they are), but the face he is simultaneously 3.5 at Ladbrokes to make the final two and 2.5 to come last in the second ballot!0 -
I’d love to be able to tap in to the Tory MPs WhatsApp....perhaps Sandpit or Robert S and our legion of IT wizards could assist in the public interest endeavour.Casino_Royale said:
Johnson will be trying to ensure he is knocked out.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
Personally I think Stewart might just make it over the threshold.0 -
He'd have to hold an election quickly. But that's true of any candidate.Jonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
If he won - and he's the one who just might - he could tell Francois, Baker and the other nutters to go screw themselves, and an adoring Tory party would back him enthusiastically.0 -
Eh? I haven't posed a question. Nor do I write manifestos or plans. Perhaps you have someone else in mind?Gallowgate said:
Should have been more specific with the question then, shouldn't you? Maybe should have came up with a plan and a manifesto before hand? Just some suggestions.geoffw said:
Not BINO.JosiasJessop said:
What is a 'Brexit worth having' ?geoffw said:
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.stodge said:Evening again all
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I can't remember seeing that on the ballot paper.
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He'll suffer for it on Tuesday, when he'll have to face the 'why weren't you with us on Sunday' questions in person.TudorRose said:
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.TOPPING said:
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.TudorRose said:
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.fitalass said:
Seconded.JackW said:Overall Scores on the doors :
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10
2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10
3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10
4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10
5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.0 -
Isn't it obviously a spoof?MarqueeMark said:
No doubt to become known as Hunt's "The Old Must Die" moment.....Ishmael_Z said:
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.williamglenn said:“Everyone must die”
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/1140327538775994368
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It would be terrific to see Rory beat Johnson hands down in the debate - and then to see the members pick Johnson anyway ...JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
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You could well be right on that. But someone has to make the stand and my goodness, Stewart (whom I once discounted) is making a jolly good fist of it.Jonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.0 -
Good joke. We all know Baker and Francois are far closer to the average Tory member than most MPs. That's the problem.ydoethur said:
He'd have to hold an election quickly. But that's true of any candidate.Jonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
If he won - and he's the one who just might - he could tell Francois, Baker and the other nutters to go screw themselves, and an adoring Tory party would back him enthusiastically.0 -
Possibly to the young. As someone who regularly deals with the elderly, I understand his point. By the time someone has hit their eighties they generally know that their days are numbered. What they want is to retain their independence and their dignity for as long as possible. Often this is phrased as "not wanting to be a burden" but this is the fear. As such Hunt's statement is an astute one.isam said:
Yes, #metooIshmael_Z said:
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.williamglenn said:“Everyone must die”
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/1140327538775994368
Incredibly bad judgement. Sounds like he wants to kill people.
Apart from his role in the Junior Doctors dispute, I don't think Hunt a bad SoS for Health. Not that the competition is very strong! I would rate Patricia Hewitt and Alan Milburn the worst of my career.0 -
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.0 -
Suprisingly, nogeoffw said:
Isn't it obviously a spoof?MarqueeMark said:
No doubt to become known as Hunt's "The Old Must Die" moment.....Ishmael_Z said:
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.williamglenn said:“Everyone must die”
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/1140327538775994368
The worst political ad of all time I think
"I agree with Jeremy" says @HaroldShipman
https://twitter.com/vickyford/status/11403279024641064960 -
That is true. But let's add cowardice to the charge. Leadership candidates are supposed to lead, not hide.TudorRose said:
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.TOPPING said:
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.TudorRose said:
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.fitalass said:
Seconded.JackW said:Overall Scores on the doors :
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10
2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10
3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10
4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10
5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Like hoping your team doesn't draw Barca in the CL quarterfinals. You will have to meet them in any case in the final and it shows you have no confidence in beating everyone.0 -
The point is that 'BINO' is very much in the eye of the beholder. As an example, May;s deal has the backing of many leavers and Europhobes on here - Mr Tyndall and Mr Royale being two - and yet other see it as BINO.geoffw said:
Eh? I haven't posed a question. Nor do I write manifestos or plans. Perhaps you have someone else in mind?Gallowgate said:
Should have been more specific with the question then, shouldn't you? Maybe should have came up with a plan and a manifesto before hand? Just some suggestions.geoffw said:
Not BINO.JosiasJessop said:
What is a 'Brexit worth having' ?geoffw said:
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.stodge said:Evening again all
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I can't remember seeing that on the ballot paper.
If europhobes couldn't be arsed to say what Brexit meant bwefore the referendum, they're not really in a position to screech "This isn't what we meant!" now.0 -
If Stewart pursues a sensible Brexit policy, Farage will go after him taking just enough Tory votes to deny him office. I am not sure there are enough votes in the left/Remain to replace them,ydoethur said:
He'd have to hold an election quickly. But that's true of any candidate.Jonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
If he won - and he's the one who just might - he could tell Francois, Baker and the other nutters to go screw themselves, and an adoring Tory party would back him enthusiastically.0 -
I daresay a certain portly Scotch lesbian will be feeling a little discarded.Chris said:Would it be premature to speak of Rorymania?
0 -
The average Tory member wants Brexit.kle4 said:
Good joke. We all know Baker and Francois are far closer to the average Tory member than most MPs. That's the problem.ydoethur said:
He'd have to hold an election quickly. But that's true of any candidate.Jonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
If he won - and he's the one who just might - he could tell Francois, Baker and the other nutters to go screw themselves, and an adoring Tory party would back him enthusiastically.
But they like power even more.
That I think is what people are forgetting.
If (if!) Stewart regained a majority and did in Corbyn, they would forgive him anything. Certainly they would suddenly accept the withdrawal agreement - a large part of the refusenik section was just playing games with MAy because she lost an election (see Boris himself).0 -
Rory is not offering remain or a people’s vote. He is in no mans land.ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.0 -
"I see OLD people!"geoffw said:
Isn't it obviously a spoof?MarqueeMark said:
No doubt to become known as Hunt's "The Old Must Die" moment.....Ishmael_Z said:
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.williamglenn said:“Everyone must die”
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/11403275387759943680 -
ClassyTheuniondivvie said:
I daresay a certain portly Scotch lesbian will be feeling a little discarded.Chris said:Would it be premature to speak of Rorymania?
0 -
'It' obviously refers to 'dignity and respect' rather than 'die'.isam said:
Suprisingly, nogeoffw said:
Isn't it obviously a spoof?MarqueeMark said:
No doubt to become known as Hunt's "The Old Must Die" moment.....Ishmael_Z said:
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.williamglenn said:“Everyone must die”
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/1140327538775994368
The worst political ad of all time I think
"I agree with Jeremy" says @HaroldShipman
https://twitter.com/vickyford/status/11403279024641064960 -
Except that at least one of 'us' won't be there on Tuesday; which may be justification in itself.ThomasNashe said:
He'll suffer for it on Tuesday, when he'll have to face the 'why weren't you with us on Sunday' questions in person.TudorRose said:
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.TOPPING said:
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.TudorRose said:
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.fitalass said:
Seconded.JackW said:Overall Scores on the doors :
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10
2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10
3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10
4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10
5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.0 -
Via her twitter account Margot James MP opts for Stewart.0
-
Not keen on your word "Europhobe". Happy to be called an EUphobe.JosiasJessop said:
The point is that 'BINO' is very much in the eye of the beholder. As an example, May;s deal has the backing of many leavers and Europhobes on here - Mr Tyndall and Mr Royale being two - and yet other see it as BINO.geoffw said:
Eh? I haven't posed a question. Nor do I write manifestos or plans. Perhaps you have someone else in mind?Gallowgate said:
Should have been more specific with the question then, shouldn't you? Maybe should have came up with a plan and a manifesto before hand? Just some suggestions.geoffw said:
Not BINO.JosiasJessop said:
What is a 'Brexit worth having' ?geoffw said:
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.stodge said:Evening again all
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I can't remember seeing that on the ballot paper.
If europhobes couldn't be arsed to say what Brexit meant bwefore the referendum, they're not really in a position to screech "This isn't what we meant!" now.
0 -
I don't think it is true anymore. If it were, more would have made their MPs back the WA so that Brexit would have happened by now, and the entirely predictable rise of the BXP would have been avoided. The ones who sabotaged the WA are acting like the WA caused the rise, when the Tory vote didn't plummet until after the WA failed.ydoethur said:
The average Tory member wants Brexit.kle4 said:
Good joke. We all know Baker and Francois are far closer to the average Tory member than most MPs. That's the problem.ydoethur said:
He'd have to hold an election quickly. But that's true of any candidate.Jonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
If he won - and he's the one who just might - he could tell Francois, Baker and the other nutters to go screw themselves, and an adoring Tory party would back him enthusiastically.
But they like power even more.
That I think is what people are forgetting.
And that was what Tory members wanted, until the very end at any rate. Encouraged by the Boris's of the world who then hastily backed the WA when they noticed Brexit might not happen, but by then it was too late.
The Tory members want Brexit, and want power, but they want the former so badly they cannot see anything else, and assume blurting out Brexit will for one see it done if they believe hard enough, and will magically see them come to power again.0 -
But why would they prop up a Tory government?ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.0 -
Which part would you disagree with?Floater said:
ClassyTheuniondivvie said:
I daresay a certain portly Scotch lesbian will be feeling a little discarded.Chris said:Would it be premature to speak of Rorymania?
0 -
It's not 'my' word. I wish I'd invented it, though.geoffw said:Not keen on your word "Europhobe". Happy to be called an EUphobe.
I also wish I'd invented 'mantage', but annoyingly someone else got there first ...0 -
A good leader chooses which battles not to fight. I don't like Boris but I can perfectly well see why he wouldn't want to be part of a six-man bunfight before the real battle comes when they face the members.TOPPING said:
That is true. But let's add cowardice to the charge. Leadership candidates are supposed to lead, not hide.TudorRose said:
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.TOPPING said:
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.TudorRose said:
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.fitalass said:
Seconded.JackW said:Overall Scores on the doors :
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10
2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10
3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10
4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10
5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Like hoping your team doesn't draw Barca in the CL quarterfinals. You will have to meet them in any case in the final and it shows you have no confidence in beating everyone.0 -
They wouldn't be. They'd just be defusing Brexit, which is also in Labour's interests.TudorRose said:
But why would they prop up a Tory government?ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.0 -
His point is impeccable; it's the presentation of it which is beyond dreadful.Foxy said:
Possibly to the young. As someone who regularly deals with the elderly, I understand his point. By the time someone has hit their eighties they generally know that their days are numbered. What they want is to retain their independence and their dignity for as long as possible. Often this is phrased as "not wanting to be a burden" but this is the fear. As such Hunt's statement is an astute one.isam said:
Yes, #metooIshmael_Z said:
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.williamglenn said:“Everyone must die”
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/1140327538775994368
Incredibly bad judgement. Sounds like he wants to kill people.
Apart from his role in the Junior Doctors dispute, I don't think Hunt a bad SoS for Health. Not that the competition is very strong! I would rate Patricia Hewitt and Alan Milburn the worst of my career.0 -
Some (many?) see Brexit as taking power back. It being tied up in a big blue bow has receded in importance.ydoethur said:
The average Tory member wants Brexit.kle4 said:
Good joke. We all know Baker and Francois are far closer to the average Tory member than most MPs. That's the problem.ydoethur said:
He'd have to hold an election quickly. But that's true of any candidate.Jonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
If he won - and he's the one who just might - he could tell Francois, Baker and the other nutters to go screw themselves, and an adoring Tory party would back him enthusiastically.
But they like power even more.
That I think is what people are forgetting.
If (if!) Stewart regained a majority and did in Corbyn, they would forgive him anything. Certainly they would suddenly accept the withdrawal agreement - a large part of the refusenik section was just playing games with MAy because she lost an election (see Boris himself).0 -
Rory essentially offers Mays deal for a fourth time, When push comes to shove, we know that’s not a hugely popular option. He would need to offer a second vote to attract centrist votes. No sign of that compromise. He is not offering any other way of getting it through as far as I can see.TudorRose said:
But why would they prop up a Tory government?ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.0 -
Frit is quite a damaging political charge and I think he has laid himself open to just that.TudorRose said:
A good leader chooses which battles not to fight. I don't like Boris but I can perfectly well see why he wouldn't want to be part of a six-man bunfight before the real battle comes when they face the members.TOPPING said:
That is true. But let's add cowardice to the charge. Leadership candidates are supposed to lead, not hide.TudorRose said:
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.TOPPING said:
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.TudorRose said:
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.fitalass said:
Seconded.JackW said:Overall Scores on the doors :
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10
2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10
3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10
4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10
5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Like hoping your team doesn't draw Barca in the CL quarterfinals. You will have to meet them in any case in the final and it shows you have no confidence in beating everyone.
But yes we shall see how it plays out with us members.0 -
I'm not sure Momentum would see it like that.ThomasNashe said:
They wouldn't be. They'd just be defusing Brexit, which is also in Labour's interests.TudorRose said:
But why would they prop up a Tory government?ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.0 -
-
I wouldnt disagree on presentation, but he is correct.Ishmael_Z said:
His point is impeccable; it's the presentation of it which is beyond dreadful.Foxy said:
Possibly to the young. As someone who regularly deals with the elderly, I understand his point. By the time someone has hit their eighties they generally know that their days are numbered. What they want is to retain their independence and their dignity for as long as possible. Often this is phrased as "not wanting to be a burden" but this is the fear. As such Hunt's statement is an astute one.isam said:
Yes, #metooIshmael_Z said:
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.williamglenn said:“Everyone must die”
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/1140327538775994368
Incredibly bad judgement. Sounds like he wants to kill people.
Apart from his role in the Junior Doctors dispute, I don't think Hunt a bad SoS for Health. Not that the competition is very strong! I would rate Patricia Hewitt and Alan Milburn the worst of my career.0 -
Are they even paying attention until it gets down to the final two?JackW said:0 -
Of course, they wouldn't. It's why I specified Labour moderates.TudorRose said:
I'm not sure Momentum would see it like that.ThomasNashe said:
They wouldn't be. They'd just be defusing Brexit, which is also in Labour's interests.TudorRose said:
But why would they prop up a Tory government?ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.0 -
He is being honest. It may be his downfall but he is right.Jonathan said:
Rory essentially offers Mays deal for a fourth time, When push comes to shove, we know that’s not a hugely popular option. He would need to offer a second vote to attract centrist votes. No sign of that compromise. He is not offering any other way of getting it through as far as I can see.TudorRose said:
But why would they prop up a Tory government?ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Look actually Rory wasn't as good as I'd hoped he'd be but he is golden (for me) as long as he keeps telling it like it is.0 -
-
I was put in mind of that Thatcher quote the other day when he said he wasn't going to do the debate.TOPPING said:
Frit is quite a damaging political charge and I think he has laid himself open to just that.TudorRose said:
A good leader chooses which battles not to fight. I don't like Boris but I can perfectly well see why he wouldn't want to be part of a six-man bunfight before the real battle comes when they face the members.TOPPING said:
That is true. But let's add cowardice to the charge. Leadership candidates are supposed to lead, not hide.TudorRose said:
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.TOPPING said:
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.TudorRose said:
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.fitalass said:
Seconded.JackW said:Overall Scores on the doors :
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10
2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10
3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10
4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10
5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Like hoping your team doesn't draw Barca in the CL quarterfinals. You will have to meet them in any case in the final and it shows you have no confidence in beating everyone.
But yes we shall see how it plays out with us members.
Even Miliband laid it on Cameron:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lhjlDeYcUs0 -
But he isn’t dealing with the whole reality, which is there is no parliamentary majority for the deal. So he needs to do something else, whatever that might be.TOPPING said:
He is being honest. It may be his downfall but he is right.Jonathan said:
Rory essentially offers Mays deal for a fourth time, When push comes to shove, we know that’s not a hugely popular option. He would need to offer a second vote to attract centrist votes. No sign of that compromise. He is not offering any other way of getting it through as far as I can see.TudorRose said:
But why would they prop up a Tory government?ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Look actually Rory wasn't as good as I'd hoped he'd be but he is golden (for me) as long as he keeps telling it like it is.0 -
You don't think they would be worried about deselection? (Genuine question)ThomasNashe said:
Of course, they wouldn't. It's why I specified Labour moderates.TudorRose said:
I'm not sure Momentum would see it like that.ThomasNashe said:
They wouldn't be. They'd just be defusing Brexit, which is also in Labour's interests.TudorRose said:
But why would they prop up a Tory government?ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.0 -
If it was a VONC yes - but a handful of Labour MPs already voted with the Govt on MV1-3, and it wasn't an issue for them.TudorRose said:
You don't think they would be worried about deselection? (Genuine question)ThomasNashe said:
Of course, they wouldn't. It's why I specified Labour moderates.TudorRose said:
I'm not sure Momentum would see it like that.ThomasNashe said:
They wouldn't be. They'd just be defusing Brexit, which is also in Labour's interests.TudorRose said:
But why would they prop up a Tory government?ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.0 -
I suppose we must defer to Cameron as a man with an infallible knack for judging public opinion.Scott_P said:0 -
It'll be lost in the background noise, but let me just say that, age 80, tell me I'm an anachronist: I've never owned a tele. But I did fix many sets, years ago,when I served an apprenticeship in a repair shop
I'd happily pay a radio tax, but that went out years ago.
Oh, and I sold my one car 45 years ago.0 -
Last minute allotment committee meeting.Scott_P said:0 -
There's no parliamentary majority for anything so you might as well retain your integrity. It won't be forgotten.Jonathan said:
But he isn’t dealing with the whole reality, which is there is no parliamentary majority for the deal. So he needs to do something else, whatever that might be.TOPPING said:
He is being honest. It may be his downfall but he is right.Jonathan said:
Rory essentially offers Mays deal for a fourth time, When push comes to shove, we know that’s not a hugely popular option. He would need to offer a second vote to attract centrist votes. No sign of that compromise. He is not offering any other way of getting it through as far as I can see.TudorRose said:
But why would they prop up a Tory government?ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Look actually Rory wasn't as good as I'd hoped he'd be but he is golden (for me) as long as he keeps telling it like it is.
I did laugh though when he (Eton, Oxford) said he was an outsider.0 -
Remain and a peoples vote are not "safer" destinations.Jonathan said:
Rory is not offering remain or a people’s vote. He is in no mans land.ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
If we remain we would only ever be one GE election from a no deal Brexit. It will continue to take up all the oxygen of political life.
If there is a referendum it will be very hard to keep no deal off the ballot, and no deal might win.
Finding a way to get the deal passed in exchange for parliament having a say on the next stage of negotations is the safest strategic play for remainers. Unfortunately it is not aligned with the interests of Corbyn Labour who need the Tories to implode to have a chance of delivering their own madness.0 -
Theuniondivvie = HomophobeTheuniondivvie said:
I daresay a certain portly Scotch lesbian will be feeling a little discarded.Chris said:Would it be premature to speak of Rorymania?
0 -
Those broad beans won't pick themselves down at the allotment you know.....Scott_P said:0 -
Agreed. What was instructive was the reaction of the audience - all Conservative inclined voters. Stewart was the clear winner there.Scott_P said:0 -
Rory Stewart = Eddie the Eagle.
2 -
What a terrible debate! No bite, not much differentiation and far too much motherhood and apple pie. Guru Murthy was awful and failed to nail down any of the candidates on anything. He also seemed to be biased towards Javed.
Ratings:
Winner - Boris - showed why he was right not to turn up
2nd - Javed - Solid performance and showed a human side
3rd - Hunt - Competent performance without really shining
4th - Stewart - Quirky but perhaps not direct enough (what was the cheddar cheese tariffs about)
5th- Gove - I thought he did OK but too much "I, I, I"
6th - Raab - struggled a bit when challenged on prorogueing parliament
Overall, what did we learn? Not a lot0 -
But they've got plenty of small potatoes....MarqueeMark said:
Those broad beans won't pick themselves down at the allotment you know.....Scott_P said:0 -
There is nothing that Boris is going to do to make you vote for him.TOPPING said:
Frit is quite a damaging political charge and I think he has laid himself open to just that.TudorRose said:
A good leader chooses which battles not to fight. I don't like Boris but I can perfectly well see why he wouldn't want to be part of a six-man bunfight before the real battle comes when they face the members.TOPPING said:
That is true. But let's add cowardice to the charge. Leadership candidates are supposed to lead, not hide.TudorRose said:
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.TOPPING said:
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.TudorRose said:
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.fitalass said:
Seconded.JackW said:Overall Scores on the doors :
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10
2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10
3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10
4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10
5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Like hoping your team doesn't draw Barca in the CL quarterfinals. You will have to meet them in any case in the final and it shows you have no confidence in beating everyone.
But yes we shall see how it plays out with us members.
Nothing. Your vote is going to his rival. Or at best for Boris, spoiled if it is somehow Raab he faces.0 -
and doing a runner beans.....TudorRose said:
But they've got plenty of small potatoes....MarqueeMark said:
Those broad beans won't pick themselves down at the allotment you know.....Scott_P said:0 -
0
-
Is it Emily Maitlis asking the questions on Tuesday night? I do hope so.0
-
Boris is not leader yet. He wants to be a leader. And someone who wants to be a leader should be willing to debate, should be willing to put forward his vision before audiences, however hostile, to show that he has what it takes.TudorRose said:
A good leader chooses which battles not to fight. I don't like Boris but I can perfectly well see why he wouldn't want to be part of a six-man bunfight before the real battle comes when they face the members.TOPPING said:
That is true. But let's add cowardice to the charge. Leadership candidates are supposed to lead, not hide.TudorRose said:
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.TOPPING said:
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.TudorRose said:
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.fitalass said:
Seconded.JackW said:Overall Scores on the doors :
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10
2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10
3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10
4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10
5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Like hoping your team doesn't draw Barca in the CL quarterfinals. You will have to meet them in any case in the final and it shows you have no confidence in beating everyone.
Rory may well not make it past the next round or to the run off, though I very much hope he does. But in his short campaign he has shown far more leadership skills than Boris has.
Boris has displayed entitlement, arrogance and cowardice. These are not worthwhile characteristics to have in any sort of leader, let alone at a time like this.
More fools Tory MPs if if they do not recognise the quality amongst them.1 -
No, he's literally a pedestrian.MarkHopkins said:
Rory Stewart = Eddie the Eagle.
0 -
How is BoZo going to square up to the EU 27 when he is afraid to face 5 of his colleagues?0
-
Well, the problem is that there is no parliamentary, or plebiscite, probably, majotrity for anything.Jonathan said:
But he isn’t dealing with the whole reality, which is there is no parliamentary majority for the deal. So he needs to do something else, whatever that might be.TOPPING said:
He is being honest. It may be his downfall but he is right.Jonathan said:
Rory essentially offers Mays deal for a fourth time, When push comes to shove, we know that’s not a hugely popular option. He would need to offer a second vote to attract centrist votes. No sign of that compromise. He is not offering any other way of getting it through as far as I can see.TudorRose said:
But why would they prop up a Tory government?ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Look actually Rory wasn't as good as I'd hoped he'd be but he is golden (for me) as long as he keeps telling it like it is.
Rory is right, the only viable Brexit is via the WA, and the only thing up for negotiation is the Political Declaration. There is scope there to win over other parties. In this the SNP perhaps matter more than Labour to Rory.0 -
Nowt wrong with that.geoffw said:
0 -
The country is but they are not, not while things are paused waiting to see what the Tories are doing.Scott_P said:0 -
Check.JosiasJessop said:0 -
Well the something else is GE, 2nd ref or revoke. The first two depend on support from Parliament. The third is the emergency measure to avoid no deal, if the first two options fail.Jonathan said:
But he isn’t dealing with the whole reality, which is there is no parliamentary majority for the deal. So he needs to do something else, whatever that might be.TOPPING said:
He is being honest. It may be his downfall but he is right.Jonathan said:
Rory essentially offers Mays deal for a fourth time, When push comes to shove, we know that’s not a hugely popular option. He would need to offer a second vote to attract centrist votes. No sign of that compromise. He is not offering any other way of getting it through as far as I can see.TudorRose said:
But why would they prop up a Tory government?ThomasNashe said:
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderatesJonathan said:
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.JohnO said:
Aye...Jonathan said:
It’s the hope that kills you.JohnO said:If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Look actually Rory wasn't as good as I'd hoped he'd be but he is golden (for me) as long as he keeps telling it like it is.
None of this is nice, but it is at least realistic.0
