Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.
I hav elistened to Stewart today and he is a complete tosser, dull as ditchwater and nothing to bring to the party other than being a TOFF. What is wrong with people on here.
Didn't watch but I suspect Malc's judgement is correct.
Thing is PB (Remain Central) is not the target audience. The target audience are Con MPs and then Con members...
I doubt all those Con members/voters who have switched to the Brexit Party think much to Rory The Tory... And we know most of them agree with Raab and Boris on No Deal...
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.
"Party WOT sorts it out", surely
"Party WOT sorts it out, innit" to secure the yoof vote.
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.
Stewart knocks it out of the park with his response to the weakness question .
Yes, as someone who does a lot of interviewing, I hate it when people give a strength as a weakness, as did all the others apart from Stewart. Instantly marked down.
Jeremy Hunt didn't even try to disguise it. Just repeated the question and went through his qualities!
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.
Imagine negotiating with your boss over pay and threatening to resign if they don't agree with all your demands, but with no other job offer in the pipeline. They call your bluff, and then you can't pay your mortgage.
But at least you showed them you were willing to walk away...
Sound move if you are not happy with your old job.
Many, many people will have done exactly that.
As a rule, it's easier to get a job when you've already got a job. Simply, you have more leverage.
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.
Well that is a very difficult thing to define. For 90% of Tory MPs, including the majority of the ERG, the WA was a Brexit worth having, albeit barely worth having, but they did vote for it. So if he said he could deliver the WA, that is provably a Brexit they thought was worth having.
However, as much as I like how Rory has campaign stodge is right that he is far from clear on how he would move things forward. In that respect, he is just like the other candidates with vague promises that it will all work out with them. While I dislike Boris, and do not think polling is reliable, at least MPs can think he might save them even if he has as little genuine plans as the others.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10 2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10 3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10 4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10 5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Seconded.
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.
Any Leaver who volunteers to go on Ch4 News is on a hiding to nothing. Unless they want to be seen as someone rowing with lefties for publicity, they'd be mad to appear. Boris needs to avoid landmines, and wisely did so tonight IMO
Imagine negotiating with your boss over pay and threatening to resign if they don't agree with all your demands, but with no other job offer in the pipeline. They call your bluff, and then you can't pay your mortgage.
But at least you showed them you were willing to walk away...
Sound move if you are not happy with your old job.
Many, many people will have done exactly that.
As a rule, it's easier to get a job when you've already got a job. Simply, you have more leverage.
That's probably true in trade negotiations too.
I disagree with your first sentence. I got my current job largely because I was available immediately and had the flexibility to move to a new location without giving the standard notice (which in my line of work is 3 months).
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.
What is a 'Brexit worth having' ?
I can't remember seeing that on the ballot paper.
It's the same as "a Brexit to Remember" as in "a Night to Remember," the film about the Titanic. Coming soon to a cinema near you...
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.
Yes, it's the second sentence that makes it. While it is clear what they mean by 'sort it out' you can very easily read it in other ways.
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.
What is a 'Brexit worth having' ?
I can't remember seeing that on the ballot paper.
Not BINO.
Should have been more specific with the question then, shouldn't you? Maybe should have came up with a plan and a manifesto before hand? Just some suggestions.
@MikeSmithson 12/1 Rory to make the final 2 looking good. 3.3 on BF now
If I had bigger cojones I could have laid Hunt at 1.48 for more. Someone wanted 3k. In the end laid 1.48 for a £200 but backed 1.62 for £100... 2.74 now
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
Johnson will be trying to ensure he is knocked out.
Personally I think Stewart might just make it over the threshold.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.
No doubt to become known as Hunt's "The Old Must Die" moment.....
When they do get to the final two there's a whole bunch of hustings, but how do these things actually go? Do they just make a pitch to local party meetings, or will they go head to head in front of members? Because the biggest weakness of Boris would be when he is challenged, and if it is just two people talking vaguely positive nonsense he wins that race at a canter.
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10 2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10 3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10 4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10 5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Seconded.
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.
Any Leaver who volunteers to go on Ch4 News is on a hiding to nothing. Unless they want to be seen as someone rowing with lefties for publicity, they'd be mad to appear. Boris needs to avoid landmines, and wisely did so tonight IMO
No he’s a spineless buffoon who wants to avoid scrutiny . If he can’t cope with what was a very respectful audience on a tv debate pray tell how he’ll cope with 27 EU leaders .
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10 2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10 3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10 4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10 5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Seconded.
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.
@MikeSmithson 12/1 Rory to make the final 2 looking good. 3.3 on BF now
If I had bigger cojones I could have laid Hunt at 1.48 for more. Someone wanted 3k. In the end laid 1.48 for a £200 but backed 1.62 for £100... 2.74 now
Hah, I see we did exactly the same thing on Hunt pretty much. I thought his 1st round result was pretty decent, the market disagreed!
Rory Stewart's odds are nuts. Not that they are too short (though I think they are), but the face he is simultaneously 3.5 at Ladbrokes to make the final two and 2.5 to come last in the second ballot!
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
Johnson will be trying to ensure he is knocked out.
Personally I think Stewart might just make it over the threshold.
I’d love to be able to tap in to the Tory MPs WhatsApp....perhaps Sandpit or Robert S and our legion of IT wizards could assist in the public interest endeavour.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
He'd have to hold an election quickly. But that's true of any candidate.
If he won - and he's the one who just might - he could tell Francois, Baker and the other nutters to go screw themselves, and an adoring Tory party would back him enthusiastically.
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.
What is a 'Brexit worth having' ?
I can't remember seeing that on the ballot paper.
Not BINO.
Should have been more specific with the question then, shouldn't you? Maybe should have came up with a plan and a manifesto before hand? Just some suggestions.
Eh? I haven't posed a question. Nor do I write manifestos or plans. Perhaps you have someone else in mind?
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10 2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10 3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10 4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10 5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Seconded.
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.
He'll suffer for it on Tuesday, when he'll have to face the 'why weren't you with us on Sunday' questions in person.
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.
No doubt to become known as Hunt's "The Old Must Die" moment.....
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It would be terrific to see Rory beat Johnson hands down in the debate - and then to see the members pick Johnson anyway ...
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
You could well be right on that. But someone has to make the stand and my goodness, Stewart (whom I once discounted) is making a jolly good fist of it.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
He'd have to hold an election quickly. But that's true of any candidate.
If he won - and he's the one who just might - he could tell Francois, Baker and the other nutters to go screw themselves, and an adoring Tory party would back him enthusiastically.
Good joke. We all know Baker and Francois are far closer to the average Tory member than most MPs. That's the problem.
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.
Yes, #metoo
Incredibly bad judgement. Sounds like he wants to kill people.
Possibly to the young. As someone who regularly deals with the elderly, I understand his point. By the time someone has hit their eighties they generally know that their days are numbered. What they want is to retain their independence and their dignity for as long as possible. Often this is phrased as "not wanting to be a burden" but this is the fear. As such Hunt's statement is an astute one.
Apart from his role in the Junior Doctors dispute, I don't think Hunt a bad SoS for Health. Not that the competition is very strong! I would rate Patricia Hewitt and Alan Milburn the worst of my career.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.
No doubt to become known as Hunt's "The Old Must Die" moment.....
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10 2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10 3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10 4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10 5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Seconded.
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.
That is true. But let's add cowardice to the charge. Leadership candidates are supposed to lead, not hide.
Like hoping your team doesn't draw Barca in the CL quarterfinals. You will have to meet them in any case in the final and it shows you have no confidence in beating everyone.
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.
What is a 'Brexit worth having' ?
I can't remember seeing that on the ballot paper.
Not BINO.
Should have been more specific with the question then, shouldn't you? Maybe should have came up with a plan and a manifesto before hand? Just some suggestions.
Eh? I haven't posed a question. Nor do I write manifestos or plans. Perhaps you have someone else in mind?
The point is that 'BINO' is very much in the eye of the beholder. As an example, May;s deal has the backing of many leavers and Europhobes on here - Mr Tyndall and Mr Royale being two - and yet other see it as BINO.
If europhobes couldn't be arsed to say what Brexit meant bwefore the referendum, they're not really in a position to screech "This isn't what we meant!" now.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
He'd have to hold an election quickly. But that's true of any candidate.
If he won - and he's the one who just might - he could tell Francois, Baker and the other nutters to go screw themselves, and an adoring Tory party would back him enthusiastically.
If Stewart pursues a sensible Brexit policy, Farage will go after him taking just enough Tory votes to deny him office. I am not sure there are enough votes in the left/Remain to replace them,
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
He'd have to hold an election quickly. But that's true of any candidate.
If he won - and he's the one who just might - he could tell Francois, Baker and the other nutters to go screw themselves, and an adoring Tory party would back him enthusiastically.
Good joke. We all know Baker and Francois are far closer to the average Tory member than most MPs. That's the problem.
The average Tory member wants Brexit.
But they like power even more.
That I think is what people are forgetting.
If (if!) Stewart regained a majority and did in Corbyn, they would forgive him anything. Certainly they would suddenly accept the withdrawal agreement - a large part of the refusenik section was just playing games with MAy because she lost an election (see Boris himself).
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
Rory is not offering remain or a people’s vote. He is in no mans land.
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.
No doubt to become known as Hunt's "The Old Must Die" moment.....
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.
No doubt to become known as Hunt's "The Old Must Die" moment.....
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10 2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10 3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10 4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10 5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Seconded.
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.
He'll suffer for it on Tuesday, when he'll have to face the 'why weren't you with us on Sunday' questions in person.
Except that at least one of 'us' won't be there on Tuesday; which may be justification in itself.
I've not really got into this idolising of Rory Stewart though he has certainly campaigned in a novel and interesting way.
I've seen some Conservatives accuse him of being a closet Lib Dem - fair enough, they said the same about Cameron back in 2005-6. I know Stewart stood with May almost to the very end and in defence of the WA but I've yet to understand how he would move things forward. Does he support a second vote? Would he ask for a long extension (ooer) from the EU in the autumn, would he revoke or would he leave without a WA?
Citizens' Assemblies are also being tried out here in Newham - they are a substitute for democracy with a tightly-controlled discussion and consultation process to provide the veneer of accountability and transparency but when I suggested to a Labour councillor in the interest of democracy they should stand only two candidates instead of three in each Ward to allow some diverse opinions in the Council chamber, said councillor wasn't too impressed.
So how much of Stewart is all smoke and mirrors? I genuinely don't know what he stands for or where he stands but I do know he is confusing in a different way. Perhaps the most revealing aspect was that in the ComRes poll on Tuesday, a Stewart-led Conservative Party would win barely 50 seats and be just behind the LDs and SNP with TBP and Labour dominating.
I think this is right. Many Tory MPs, to whom this debate is really addressed, will be asking themselves: is he one of us? I don't think this takes away the fact that he is in some ways the most interesting of the candidates. But I wouldn't trust him to deliver a Brexit worth having.
What is a 'Brexit worth having' ?
I can't remember seeing that on the ballot paper.
Not BINO.
Should have been more specific with the question then, shouldn't you? Maybe should have came up with a plan and a manifesto before hand? Just some suggestions.
Eh? I haven't posed a question. Nor do I write manifestos or plans. Perhaps you have someone else in mind?
The point is that 'BINO' is very much in the eye of the beholder. As an example, May;s deal has the backing of many leavers and Europhobes on here - Mr Tyndall and Mr Royale being two - and yet other see it as BINO.
If europhobes couldn't be arsed to say what Brexit meant bwefore the referendum, they're not really in a position to screech "This isn't what we meant!" now.
Not keen on your word "Europhobe". Happy to be called an EUphobe.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
He'd have to hold an election quickly. But that's true of any candidate.
If he won - and he's the one who just might - he could tell Francois, Baker and the other nutters to go screw themselves, and an adoring Tory party would back him enthusiastically.
Good joke. We all know Baker and Francois are far closer to the average Tory member than most MPs. That's the problem.
The average Tory member wants Brexit.
But they like power even more.
That I think is what people are forgetting.
I don't think it is true anymore. If it were, more would have made their MPs back the WA so that Brexit would have happened by now, and the entirely predictable rise of the BXP would have been avoided. The ones who sabotaged the WA are acting like the WA caused the rise, when the Tory vote didn't plummet until after the WA failed.
And that was what Tory members wanted, until the very end at any rate. Encouraged by the Boris's of the world who then hastily backed the WA when they noticed Brexit might not happen, but by then it was too late.
The Tory members want Brexit, and want power, but they want the former so badly they cannot see anything else, and assume blurting out Brexit will for one see it done if they believe hard enough, and will magically see them come to power again.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10 2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10 3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10 4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10 5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Seconded.
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.
That is true. But let's add cowardice to the charge. Leadership candidates are supposed to lead, not hide.
Like hoping your team doesn't draw Barca in the CL quarterfinals. You will have to meet them in any case in the final and it shows you have no confidence in beating everyone.
A good leader chooses which battles not to fight. I don't like Boris but I can perfectly well see why he wouldn't want to be part of a six-man bunfight before the real battle comes when they face the members.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
But why would they prop up a Tory government?
They wouldn't be. They'd just be defusing Brexit, which is also in Labour's interests.
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.
Yes, #metoo
Incredibly bad judgement. Sounds like he wants to kill people.
Possibly to the young. As someone who regularly deals with the elderly, I understand his point. By the time someone has hit their eighties they generally know that their days are numbered. What they want is to retain their independence and their dignity for as long as possible. Often this is phrased as "not wanting to be a burden" but this is the fear. As such Hunt's statement is an astute one.
Apart from his role in the Junior Doctors dispute, I don't think Hunt a bad SoS for Health. Not that the competition is very strong! I would rate Patricia Hewitt and Alan Milburn the worst of my career.
His point is impeccable; it's the presentation of it which is beyond dreadful.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
He'd have to hold an election quickly. But that's true of any candidate.
If he won - and he's the one who just might - he could tell Francois, Baker and the other nutters to go screw themselves, and an adoring Tory party would back him enthusiastically.
Good joke. We all know Baker and Francois are far closer to the average Tory member than most MPs. That's the problem.
The average Tory member wants Brexit.
But they like power even more.
That I think is what people are forgetting.
If (if!) Stewart regained a majority and did in Corbyn, they would forgive him anything. Certainly they would suddenly accept the withdrawal agreement - a large part of the refusenik section was just playing games with MAy because she lost an election (see Boris himself).
Some (many?) see Brexit as taking power back. It being tied up in a big blue bow has receded in importance.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
But why would they prop up a Tory government?
Rory essentially offers Mays deal for a fourth time, When push comes to shove, we know that’s not a hugely popular option. He would need to offer a second vote to attract centrist votes. No sign of that compromise. He is not offering any other way of getting it through as far as I can see.
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10 2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10 3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10 4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10 5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Seconded.
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.
That is true. But let's add cowardice to the charge. Leadership candidates are supposed to lead, not hide.
Like hoping your team doesn't draw Barca in the CL quarterfinals. You will have to meet them in any case in the final and it shows you have no confidence in beating everyone.
A good leader chooses which battles not to fight. I don't like Boris but I can perfectly well see why he wouldn't want to be part of a six-man bunfight before the real battle comes when they face the members.
Frit is quite a damaging political charge and I think he has laid himself open to just that.
But yes we shall see how it plays out with us members.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
But why would they prop up a Tory government?
They wouldn't be. They'd just be defusing Brexit, which is also in Labour's interests.
Genuinely thought that was one of those web template thingies where you take a genuine poster and insert your own text. WTF is the comma doing after "party" other than highlighting the lack of a full stop at the end? And "party who sorts it out" sounds terrible, like one cockney telling another in a bad movie that if he wants 'er indoors polished off, he knows a geezer who will sort it out.
Yes, #metoo
Incredibly bad judgement. Sounds like he wants to kill people.
Possibly to the young. As someone who regularly deals with the elderly, I understand his point. By the time someone has hit their eighties they generally know that their days are numbered. What they want is to retain their independence and their dignity for as long as possible. Often this is phrased as "not wanting to be a burden" but this is the fear. As such Hunt's statement is an astute one.
Apart from his role in the Junior Doctors dispute, I don't think Hunt a bad SoS for Health. Not that the competition is very strong! I would rate Patricia Hewitt and Alan Milburn the worst of my career.
His point is impeccable; it's the presentation of it which is beyond dreadful.
I wouldnt disagree on presentation, but he is correct.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
But why would they prop up a Tory government?
They wouldn't be. They'd just be defusing Brexit, which is also in Labour's interests.
I'm not sure Momentum would see it like that.
Of course, they wouldn't. It's why I specified Labour moderates.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
But why would they prop up a Tory government?
Rory essentially offers Mays deal for a fourth time, When push comes to shove, we know that’s not a hugely popular option. He would need to offer a second vote to attract centrist votes. No sign of that compromise. He is not offering any other way of getting it through as far as I can see.
He is being honest. It may be his downfall but he is right.
Look actually Rory wasn't as good as I'd hoped he'd be but he is golden (for me) as long as he keeps telling it like it is.
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10 2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10 3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10 4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10 5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Seconded.
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.
That is true. But let's add cowardice to the charge. Leadership candidates are supposed to lead, not hide.
Like hoping your team doesn't draw Barca in the CL quarterfinals. You will have to meet them in any case in the final and it shows you have no confidence in beating everyone.
A good leader chooses which battles not to fight. I don't like Boris but I can perfectly well see why he wouldn't want to be part of a six-man bunfight before the real battle comes when they face the members.
Frit is quite a damaging political charge and I think he has laid himself open to just that.
But yes we shall see how it plays out with us members.
I was put in mind of that Thatcher quote the other day when he said he wasn't going to do the debate.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
But why would they prop up a Tory government?
Rory essentially offers Mays deal for a fourth time, When push comes to shove, we know that’s not a hugely popular option. He would need to offer a second vote to attract centrist votes. No sign of that compromise. He is not offering any other way of getting it through as far as I can see.
He is being honest. It may be his downfall but he is right.
Look actually Rory wasn't as good as I'd hoped he'd be but he is golden (for me) as long as he keeps telling it like it is.
But he isn’t dealing with the whole reality, which is there is no parliamentary majority for the deal. So he needs to do something else, whatever that might be.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
But why would they prop up a Tory government?
They wouldn't be. They'd just be defusing Brexit, which is also in Labour's interests.
I'm not sure Momentum would see it like that.
Of course, they wouldn't. It's why I specified Labour moderates.
You don't think they would be worried about deselection? (Genuine question)
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
But why would they prop up a Tory government?
They wouldn't be. They'd just be defusing Brexit, which is also in Labour's interests.
I'm not sure Momentum would see it like that.
Of course, they wouldn't. It's why I specified Labour moderates.
You don't think they would be worried about deselection? (Genuine question)
If it was a VONC yes - but a handful of Labour MPs already voted with the Govt on MV1-3, and it wasn't an issue for them.
It'll be lost in the background noise, but let me just say that, age 80, tell me I'm an anachronist: I've never owned a tele. But I did fix many sets, years ago,when I served an apprenticeship in a repair shop
I'd happily pay a radio tax, but that went out years ago.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
But why would they prop up a Tory government?
Rory essentially offers Mays deal for a fourth time, When push comes to shove, we know that’s not a hugely popular option. He would need to offer a second vote to attract centrist votes. No sign of that compromise. He is not offering any other way of getting it through as far as I can see.
He is being honest. It may be his downfall but he is right.
Look actually Rory wasn't as good as I'd hoped he'd be but he is golden (for me) as long as he keeps telling it like it is.
But he isn’t dealing with the whole reality, which is there is no parliamentary majority for the deal. So he needs to do something else, whatever that might be.
There's no parliamentary majority for anything so you might as well retain your integrity. It won't be forgotten.
I did laugh though when he (Eton, Oxford) said he was an outsider.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
Rory is not offering remain or a people’s vote. He is in no mans land.
Remain and a peoples vote are not "safer" destinations.
If we remain we would only ever be one GE election from a no deal Brexit. It will continue to take up all the oxygen of political life.
If there is a referendum it will be very hard to keep no deal off the ballot, and no deal might win.
Finding a way to get the deal passed in exchange for parliament having a say on the next stage of negotations is the safest strategic play for remainers. Unfortunately it is not aligned with the interests of Corbyn Labour who need the Tories to implode to have a chance of delivering their own madness.
What a terrible debate! No bite, not much differentiation and far too much motherhood and apple pie. Guru Murthy was awful and failed to nail down any of the candidates on anything. He also seemed to be biased towards Javed.
Ratings:
Winner - Boris - showed why he was right not to turn up 2nd - Javed - Solid performance and showed a human side 3rd - Hunt - Competent performance without really shining 4th - Stewart - Quirky but perhaps not direct enough (what was the cheddar cheese tariffs about) 5th- Gove - I thought he did OK but too much "I, I, I" 6th - Raab - struggled a bit when challenged on prorogueing parliament
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10 2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10 3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10 4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10 5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Seconded.
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.
That is true. But let's add cowardice to the charge. Leadership candidates are supposed to lead, not hide.
Like hoping your team doesn't draw Barca in the CL quarterfinals. You will have to meet them in any case in the final and it shows you have no confidence in beating everyone.
A good leader chooses which battles not to fight. I don't like Boris but I can perfectly well see why he wouldn't want to be part of a six-man bunfight before the real battle comes when they face the members.
Frit is quite a damaging political charge and I think he has laid himself open to just that.
But yes we shall see how it plays out with us members.
There is nothing that Boris is going to do to make you vote for him.
Nothing. Your vote is going to his rival. Or at best for Boris, spoiled if it is somehow Raab he faces.
1. Stewart - Clear winner - 8/10 2. Javid - Solid performance throughout - 6.5/10 3. Hunt - Started poorly and improved. - 6/10 4. Gove - Just tried too hard - 4/10 5. Raab - Mr Terminator blew up.
Seconded.
No. The clear winner was Boris. Not attending that debacle was a sign of good judgement.
Makes him appear an arrogant twat which of course he is so I suppose job done.
Those who turned up were all completely unconvincing and harmed their own causes (partly because of the set up) so Boris' score of zero was still the highest of the night.
That is true. But let's add cowardice to the charge. Leadership candidates are supposed to lead, not hide.
Like hoping your team doesn't draw Barca in the CL quarterfinals. You will have to meet them in any case in the final and it shows you have no confidence in beating everyone.
A good leader chooses which battles not to fight. I don't like Boris but I can perfectly well see why he wouldn't want to be part of a six-man bunfight before the real battle comes when they face the members.
Boris is not leader yet. He wants to be a leader. And someone who wants to be a leader should be willing to debate, should be willing to put forward his vision before audiences, however hostile, to show that he has what it takes.
Rory may well not make it past the next round or to the run off, though I very much hope he does. But in his short campaign he has shown far more leadership skills than Boris has.
Boris has displayed entitlement, arrogance and cowardice. These are not worthwhile characteristics to have in any sort of leader, let alone at a time like this.
More fools Tory MPs if if they do not recognise the quality amongst them.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
But why would they prop up a Tory government?
Rory essentially offers Mays deal for a fourth time, When push comes to shove, we know that’s not a hugely popular option. He would need to offer a second vote to attract centrist votes. No sign of that compromise. He is not offering any other way of getting it through as far as I can see.
He is being honest. It may be his downfall but he is right.
Look actually Rory wasn't as good as I'd hoped he'd be but he is golden (for me) as long as he keeps telling it like it is.
But he isn’t dealing with the whole reality, which is there is no parliamentary majority for the deal. So he needs to do something else, whatever that might be.
Well, the problem is that there is no parliamentary, or plebiscite, probably, majotrity for anything.
Rory is right, the only viable Brexit is via the WA, and the only thing up for negotiation is the Political Declaration. There is scope there to win over other parties. In this the SNP perhaps matter more than Labour to Rory.
If Stewart is knocked out of the contest on Tuesday (which still seems likely sadly), then the process becomes predictable and stultifying. Johnson will win by a canter against any of the others. But should Rory still be standing, Tuesday’s BBC debate could be electrifying and who knows. Yes, of course Johnson may still win by a canter....but we foot soldiers of the grass roots may yet get our money’s worth.
It’s the hope that kills you.
Aye...
If Stewart got it, how would he deal with Francois and Scooby gang? They would not stomach any Brexit realism. A split triggering an election contested by the Brexit surely a possibility.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Should be much more successful in engaging Labour moderates
But why would they prop up a Tory government?
Rory essentially offers Mays deal for a fourth time, When push comes to shove, we know that’s not a hugely popular option. He would need to offer a second vote to attract centrist votes. No sign of that compromise. He is not offering any other way of getting it through as far as I can see.
He is being honest. It may be his downfall but he is right.
Look actually Rory wasn't as good as I'd hoped he'd be but he is golden (for me) as long as he keeps telling it like it is.
But he isn’t dealing with the whole reality, which is there is no parliamentary majority for the deal. So he needs to do something else, whatever that might be.
Well the something else is GE, 2nd ref or revoke. The first two depend on support from Parliament. The third is the emergency measure to avoid no deal, if the first two options fail.
None of this is nice, but it is at least realistic.
Comments
Thing is PB (Remain Central) is not the target audience. The target audience are Con MPs and then Con members...
I doubt all those Con members/voters who have switched to the Brexit Party think much to Rory The Tory... And we know most of them agree with Raab and Boris on No Deal...
Stewart 7/10 didn’t try some emotional claptrap , looked the most genuine .
Hunt 6/10 did okay but went all Trumpian at the end with his greatest country guff .
Javid 6/10 better than I expected .
Gove 3/10 too needy , overly sincere , looked desperate , wheeled the dad story out again , pass me the sick bag .
Raab 1/10 creepy , suspending parliament crashed and burned in the studio .
I can't remember seeing that on the ballot paper.
That's probably true in trade negotiations too.
However, as much as I like how Rory has campaign stodge is right that he is far from clear on how he would move things forward. In that respect, he is just like the other candidates with vague promises that it will all work out with them. While I dislike Boris, and do not think polling is reliable, at least MPs can think he might save them even if he has as little genuine plans as the others.
If Gove is leader I would vote for Labour, even if the pea-brained apologist for racism and terrorism is still in charge.
If I had bigger cojones I could have laid Hunt at 1.48 for more. Someone wanted 3k. In the end laid 1.48 for a £200 but backed 1.62 for £100... 2.74 now
Personally I think Stewart might just make it over the threshold.
I am not sure a Stewart govt could survive long.
Rory Stewart's odds are nuts. Not that they are too short (though I think they are), but the face he is simultaneously 3.5 at Ladbrokes to make the final two and 2.5 to come last in the second ballot!
If he won - and he's the one who just might - he could tell Francois, Baker and the other nutters to go screw themselves, and an adoring Tory party would back him enthusiastically.
Apart from his role in the Junior Doctors dispute, I don't think Hunt a bad SoS for Health. Not that the competition is very strong! I would rate Patricia Hewitt and Alan Milburn the worst of my career.
The worst political ad of all time I think
"I agree with Jeremy" says @HaroldShipman
https://twitter.com/vickyford/status/1140327902464106496
Like hoping your team doesn't draw Barca in the CL quarterfinals. You will have to meet them in any case in the final and it shows you have no confidence in beating everyone.
If europhobes couldn't be arsed to say what Brexit meant bwefore the referendum, they're not really in a position to screech "This isn't what we meant!" now.
But they like power even more.
That I think is what people are forgetting.
If (if!) Stewart regained a majority and did in Corbyn, they would forgive him anything. Certainly they would suddenly accept the withdrawal agreement - a large part of the refusenik section was just playing games with MAy because she lost an election (see Boris himself).
And that was what Tory members wanted, until the very end at any rate. Encouraged by the Boris's of the world who then hastily backed the WA when they noticed Brexit might not happen, but by then it was too late.
The Tory members want Brexit, and want power, but they want the former so badly they cannot see anything else, and assume blurting out Brexit will for one see it done if they believe hard enough, and will magically see them come to power again.
I also wish I'd invented 'mantage', but annoyingly someone else got there first ...
....................................................
I think undeclared in Round 1.
But yes we shall see how it plays out with us members.
Look actually Rory wasn't as good as I'd hoped he'd be but he is golden (for me) as long as he keeps telling it like it is.
Even Miliband laid it on Cameron:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lhjlDeYcUs
I'd happily pay a radio tax, but that went out years ago.
Oh, and I sold my one car 45 years ago.
I did laugh though when he (Eton, Oxford) said he was an outsider.
If we remain we would only ever be one GE election from a no deal Brexit. It will continue to take up all the oxygen of political life.
If there is a referendum it will be very hard to keep no deal off the ballot, and no deal might win.
Finding a way to get the deal passed in exchange for parliament having a say on the next stage of negotations is the safest strategic play for remainers. Unfortunately it is not aligned with the interests of Corbyn Labour who need the Tories to implode to have a chance of delivering their own madness.
Rory Stewart = Eddie the Eagle.
Ratings:
Winner - Boris - showed why he was right not to turn up
2nd - Javed - Solid performance and showed a human side
3rd - Hunt - Competent performance without really shining
4th - Stewart - Quirky but perhaps not direct enough (what was the cheddar cheese tariffs about)
5th- Gove - I thought he did OK but too much "I, I, I"
6th - Raab - struggled a bit when challenged on prorogueing parliament
Overall, what did we learn? Not a lot
Nothing. Your vote is going to his rival. Or at best for Boris, spoiled if it is somehow Raab he faces.
https://tinyurl.com/y4y8n2ob
Rory may well not make it past the next round or to the run off, though I very much hope he does. But in his short campaign he has shown far more leadership skills than Boris has.
Boris has displayed entitlement, arrogance and cowardice. These are not worthwhile characteristics to have in any sort of leader, let alone at a time like this.
More fools Tory MPs if if they do not recognise the quality amongst them.
Rory is right, the only viable Brexit is via the WA, and the only thing up for negotiation is the Political Declaration. There is scope there to win over other parties. In this the SNP perhaps matter more than Labour to Rory.
None of this is nice, but it is at least realistic.