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A Boris led Tory Party would be on 20% in Scotland at the next general election with Yougov, higher than they got at every general election from 1997 until 2017 thereStuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.0 -
That sounds like the worst of both worlds!OblitusSumMe said:
You can read the book(s) and enjoy the traitorous intrigue without the visual stimulation.SandyRentool said:Add me to the list of folk who have never watched GoT
That sort of stuff doesn't appeal to me, and if I wanted to see nakedness there is no shortage of that on line, or so TSE tells me...0 -
Thatcher was more a 19th century Gladstone Liberal than a Disraeli Tory true.StuartDickson said:
Indeed, Thatcher was the beginning of the end. She was not a conservative, she was a revolutionary.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ironically, Theresa May should have been that leader. Think back to her JAMs speech. Trouble is, while she might have been a good Conservative, she was a lousy politician. We might one day look back and see we left the EU with what looks suspiciously like May's WA, and pay for social care with May's dementia tax, under a different name of course. But Theresa May far better represented the old Tory party in the country than did the Notting Hill trustafarians around Cameron or the economic radicals round Thatcher.rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
There are many examples of her animosity towards conservatism, but funnily enough one of her very late introductions sticks in my mind: the National Lottery. She, quite rightly, resisted the suggestion for a decade, but caved in in the end. The Big State, week in week out fleeces the absolute poorest people in society. It is a National Disgrace and a National Shame. Of course charlatan Blair loved it too.
A true conservative would abolish the National Lottery, ban the gambling industry from advertising, and protect the vulnerable from one of society’s most persistent evils.
However on the National Lottery it raises vast sums for good causes and we would not have won the Olympic medals we have without it1 -
There's something Darwinian about the National Lottery.StuartDickson said:
Indeed, Thatcher was the beginning of the end. She was not a conservative, she was a revolutionary.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ironically, Theresa May should have been that leader. Think back to her JAMs speech. Trouble is, while she might have been a good Conservative, she was a lousy politician. We might one day look back and see we left the EU with what looks suspiciously like May's WA, and pay for social care with May's dementia tax, under a different name of course. But Theresa May far better represented the old Tory party in the country than did the Notting Hill trustafarians around Cameron or the economic radicals round Thatcher.rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
There are many examples of her animosity towards conservatism, but funnily enough one of her very late introductions sticks in my mind: the National Lottery. She, quite rightly, resisted the suggestion for a decade, but caved in in the end. The Big State, week in week out fleeces the absolute poorest people in society. It is a National Disgrace and a National Shame. Of course charlatan Blair loved it too.
A true conservative would abolish the National Lottery, ban the gambling industry from advertising, and protect the vulnerable from one of society’s most persistent evils.
Not only does it transfer wealth from the poor to the rich but it also transfers wealth from the stupid to the intelligent and from the unhealthy to the sporty.
As Thatcher was a believer in Methodist hard work and self improvement then the National Lottery could be justified as a tax on those who don't follow that path.0 -
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Yes we shouuld have stayed in EFTASean_F said:One thing that tends to get overlooked in discussions about Conservatism is the remarkably unConservative decision to join the EU in the first place. What was that but a truly radical break with the country's traditions, in the name of ideology?
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Streeting is among several Labour MPs vocal on this and on anti-semitism but when push comes to shove they seem to fall back into line. They remind me of the conservatives at the time of Weimar who thought they could control Hitler...nichomar said:felix said:
Indeed - and notably quiet on this issue is the Labour Party leadership - I wonder why that might be..........SouthamObserver said:
Yep, Esther McVey loves it.another_richard said:
There's some extreme social conservatism taking place in Birmingham currently.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - I am not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are instinctively conservative. Or maybe they count as university towns?rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
Wes Streeting to refer fellow Lab MP Godsiff with formal complaint to Labour Partyfelix said:
Indeed - and notably quiet on this issue is the Labour Party leadership - I wonder why that might be..........SouthamObserver said:
Yep, Esther McVey loves it.another_richard said:
There's some extreme social conservatism taking place in Birmingham currently.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - I am not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are instinctively conservative. Or maybe they count as university towns?rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"0 -
And a few of those poor become rich which is why they play itIanB2 said:
And it takes all that money from the poor and every week creates a new rich person. There is some interesting research awaited on the long run impact on wealth distributionStuartDickson said:
Indeed, Thatcher was the beginning of the end. She was not a conservative, she was a revolutionary.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ironically, Theresa May should have been that leader. Think back to her JAMs speech. Trouble is, while she might have been a good Conservative, she was a lousy politician. We might one day look back and see we left the EU with what looks suspiciously like May's WA, and pay for social care with May's dementia tax, under a different name of course. But Theresa May far better represented the old Tory party in the country than did the Notting Hill trustafarians around Cameron or the economic radicals round Thatcher.rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
There are many examples of her animosity towards conservatism, but funnily enough one of her very late introductions sticks in my mind: the National Lottery. She, quite rightly, resisted the suggestion for a decade, but caved in in the end. The Big State, week in week out fleeces the absolute poorest people in society. It is a National Disgrace and a National Shame. Of course charlatan Blair loved it too.
A true conservative would abolish the National Lottery, ban the gambling industry from advertising, and protect the vulnerable from one of society’s most persistent evils.0 -
So 8.6% (almost a third less) lower than the SCons got in the actual 2017 election? The Boris effect!HYUFD said:
A Boris led Tory Party would be on 20% in Scotland at the next general election with Yougov, higher than they got at every general election from 1997 until 2017 thereStuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.0 -
It would be more interesting if they said they were a drug user NOW rather than in the last millennium.SandyRentool said:So will one of the Tory leadership candidates feel the need to make a false confession in one of the Sunday papers just to stay in the game?
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I doubt Johnson will be getting healthy majorities full stop. A politician who claims to want to heal divisions cannot do so without substantial support in the UK’s major cities. But, to be fair, Johnson has no interest in that.MarqueeMark said:
I'm not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are required to put Boris in place for a couple of Parliaments with healthy majorities either.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - I am not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are instinctively conservative. Or maybe they count as university towns?rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
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Boris can, unless he's had a genuine conversion like Trump. The Spartans in the Tory ranks are beginning to think he might just have done so.Alistair said:
I don't think anyone can repeat Cameron's trick of pretending to be a eurosceptic this time round.MaxPB said:
I think the membership's default vote is for Boris, yes, but the same members were ready to make David Davis leader in 2005. The longer term members I know are open to voting for any candidate who will definitely leave the EU, I expect the entryists would only vote for Boris or Raab regardless of the merits of the other candidate.Pulpstar said:
I think, as in the Labour contest this talk of entryism is for the large part absolubte gash. The memberships always wanted Boris and they always wanted Corbyn, certainly for Labour's part more than their MPs ever knew.MaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.0 -
It's over. Boris becoming leader ends the Ruth Davidson Project.felix said:
I agree about Boris - don't know about Gove. I know you won't agree but Ruth's achievement in leading the Tories to second place in Scotland is truly one of the brightest features of the party's fortunes in decades.StuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.0 -
Good luck with that!HYUFD said:
A Boris led Tory Party would be on 20% in Scotland at the next general election with Yougov, higher than they got at every general election from 1997 until 2017 thereStuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.
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Tim's right, but not for the reason he thinks.Theuniondivvie said:Tim still getting the plaudits.
https://twitter.com/NickCohen4/status/11372513988301783040 -
That’s odd. We must be in a different universe to the one where Thatcher became Conservative leader. Where is the Heathite hegemony?Scott_P said:0 -
No need for luck, that is what the polls show.SouthamObserver said:
Good luck with that!HYUFD said:
A Boris led Tory Party would be on 20% in Scotland at the next general election with Yougov, higher than they got at every general election from 1997 until 2017 thereStuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.
Remember the Brexit Party was second in Scotland in the European Parliament elections and Boris would get many of those voters back0 -
The Tories were 4th in Scotland in the European Parliament elections on just 12%.Alistair said:
It's over. Boris becoming leader ends the Ruth Davidson Project.felix said:
I agree about Boris - don't know about Gove. I know you won't agree but Ruth's achievement in leading the Tories to second place in Scotland is truly one of the brightest features of the party's fortunes in decades.StuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.
Under Boris Yougov last week had the Tories back to second in Scotland on 20%0 -
Scottish sub samples. The last refuge of the rogue.0
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I find this "nakedness" claim bizarre. I am not saying no one ever gets their tits out, but it would be thin pickings if you watched it for that reason. Apart from anything Winter is Coming, and women tend to be swathed in fur. The fantasy woo elements of the show are its worst point - Daenerys mother of dragons bloody had it coming - but 80% of it is straightforward medieval warfare and intrigue, and absolutely cracking.SandyRentool said:Add me to the list of folk who have never watched GoT
That sort of stuff doesn't appeal to me, and if I wanted to see nakedness there is no shortage of that on line, or so TSE tells me...1 -
Vicious comments on May's legacy. Notable condemnation of her willingness to make life miserable for random people. I agree. Brexit was never going to fly. But if you can't make life better for people, at least do them no harm.
https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/11369421115243069450 -
Not sure about that - there will always be a need for a party of the centre right in all countries and Scotland is no exception to it.Alistair said:
It's over. Boris becoming leader ends the Ruth Davidson Project.felix said:
I agree about Boris - don't know about Gove. I know you won't agree but Ruth's achievement in leading the Tories to second place in Scotland is truly one of the brightest features of the party's fortunes in decades.StuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.0 -
I don't think that's quite right. The National Lottery was introduced by John Major's government after a manifesto commitment in 1992.StuartDickson said:Indeed, Thatcher was the beginning of the end. She was not a conservative, she was a revolutionary.
There are many examples of her animosity towards conservatism, but funnily enough one of her very late introductions sticks in my mind: the National Lottery. She, quite rightly, resisted the suggestion for a decade, but caved in in the end. The Big State, week in week out fleeces the absolute poorest people in society. It is a National Disgrace and a National Shame. Of course charlatan Blair loved it too.
A true conservative would abolish the National Lottery, ban the gambling industry from advertising, and protect the vulnerable from one of society’s most persistent evils.
http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml0 -
@david_herdson Very good article, David, thank you - but then, I've never watched GoT either.
Good morning, everyone.0 -
Morning Gin, so he was making too much money and scared it would dry up.GIN1138 said:
Morning Macl.malcolmg said:
why did he leaveTabman said:
That's very sad to hearTheuniondivvie said:
I'm sure SeanT would be able to suggest someone that fits the bill. Such a shame he's no longer around.MarqueeMark said:I'm holding out for a Tory contender who admits to having done Ketamine.
In a brothel.
I was told Sean has gone all Hollywood on us and was worried about all the bullshit he's posted on here over the past decade coming out so got Smithson The Younger to delete his posting history.
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Indeed and sometimes people forget 38% of Scots voted Leave, more than have ever voted for Ruth Davidson's Tories even in 2017. Without Scottish Leave voters as the European elections proved the Scottish Tories are back to barely more than 10%felix said:
Not sure about that - there will always be a need for a party of the centre right in all countries and Scotland is no exception to it.Alistair said:
It's over. Boris becoming leader ends the Ruth Davidson Project.felix said:
I agree about Boris - don't know about Gove. I know you won't agree but Ruth's achievement in leading the Tories to second place in Scotland is truly one of the brightest features of the party's fortunes in decades.StuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.0 -
Diehard Remainers who want to overturn the EU referendum result and ignore our Leave voting market towns and rural areas certainly do not want to try and heal divisionsSouthamObserver said:
I doubt Johnson will be getting healthy majorities full stop. A politician who claims to want to heal divisions cannot do so without substantial support in the UK’s major cities. But, to be fair, Johnson has no interest in that.MarqueeMark said:
I'm not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are required to put Boris in place for a couple of Parliaments with healthy majorities either.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - I am not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are instinctively conservative. Or maybe they count as university towns?rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"0 -
Weren't you bigging up The Brexit Party before Peterborough? Is your new position that they'll melt away?HYUFD said:
Indeed and sometimes people forget 38% of Scots voted Leave, more than have ever voted for Ruth Davidson's Tories even in 2017. Without Scottish Leave voters as the European elections proved the Scottish Tories are back to barely more than 10%felix said:
Not sure about that - there will always be a need for a party of the centre right in all countries and Scotland is no exception to it.Alistair said:
It's over. Boris becoming leader ends the Ruth Davidson Project.felix said:
I agree about Boris - don't know about Gove. I know you won't agree but Ruth's achievement in leading the Tories to second place in Scotland is truly one of the brightest features of the party's fortunes in decades.StuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.0 -
Not at all it was sheer luck. Lib Dems vanquished and Labour destroying themselves gave them a temporary boost. Her single policy , "No referendum" is a busted flush now and she is invisible and circling the drain.felix said:
I agree about Boris - don't know about Gove. I know you won't agree but Ruth's achievement in leading the Tories to second place in Scotland is truly one of the brightest features of the party's fortunes in decades.StuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.
PS: they are also rans in Scotland , miles and miles behind and no hope of ever being in charge, hardly success.0 -
Key thing to know is every Scot is a nationalist. Our arguments are about what's best for Scotland: independence or close alliance with England, with Ruth Davidson being an articulate proponent of the Union. Her position falls away up against aggressive English nationalism. I suspect she knows it and will move onto other more rewarding things than politics.felix said:
I agree about Boris - don't know about Gove. I know you won't agree but Ruth's achievement in leading the Tories to second place in Scotland is truly one of the brightest features of the party's fortunes in decades.StuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.0 -
LOLHYUFD said:
A Boris led Tory Party would be on 20% in Scotland at the next general election with Yougov, higher than they got at every general election from 1997 until 2017 thereStuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.
0 -
The correct decision for the Scottish Tories & the Welsh Tories is to be completely separate parties, independent parties of the English Tories (like CDU/CSU).HYUFD said:
Indeed and sometimes people forget 38% of Scots voted Leave, more than have ever voted for Ruth Davidson's Tories even in 2017. Without Scottish Leave voters as the European elections proved the Scottish Tories are back to barely more than 10%felix said:
Not sure about that - there will always be a need for a party of the centre right in all countries and Scotland is no exception to it.Alistair said:
It's over. Boris becoming leader ends the Ruth Davidson Project.felix said:
I agree about Boris - don't know about Gove. I know you won't agree but Ruth's achievement in leading the Tories to second place in Scotland is truly one of the brightest features of the party's fortunes in decades.StuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.
It is possible that the election of Boris may precipitate that in Scotland.
There is a centre right in both countries, and independent Tory parties would enable them to tap into the right-of-centre Nationalist-inclined vote more easily. (This is quite a substantial constituency in rural North Wales).
It would also put Labour in a fix in Wales.0 -
Well the Brexit Party were still only a few hundred votes from winning Peterbrough.Theuniondivvie said:
Weren't you bigging up The Brexit Party before Peterborough? Is your new position that they'll melt away?HYUFD said:
Indeed and sometimes people forget 38% of Scots voted Leave, more than have ever voted for Ruth Davidson's Tories even in 2017. Without Scottish Leave voters as the European elections proved the Scottish Tories are back to barely more than 10%felix said:
Not sure about that - there will always be a need for a party of the centre right in all countries and Scotland is no exception to it.Alistair said:
It's over. Boris becoming leader ends the Ruth Davidson Project.felix said:
I agree about Boris - don't know about Gove. I know you won't agree but Ruth's achievement in leading the Tories to second place in Scotland is truly one of the brightest features of the party's fortunes in decades.StuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.
The Brexit Party will certainly not melt away if Gove or Hunt succeeds May, indeed the Yougov polling suggests the Brexit Party would remain over 20% against a Gove or Hunt led Tory Party.
Boris or Raab cut them back though, Yougov had the Brexit Party falling back to 13% against a Boris led Tories ie UKIP 2015 levels0 -
Dreamer, ex Labour voters will not ever go ToryHYUFD said:
No need for luck, that is what the polls show.SouthamObserver said:
Good luck with that!HYUFD said:
A Boris led Tory Party would be on 20% in Scotland at the next general election with Yougov, higher than they got at every general election from 1997 until 2017 thereStuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.
Remember the Brexit Party was second in Scotland in the European Parliament elections and Boris would get many of those voters back0 -
Just not up to it, as Attlee put it.FF43 said:Vicious comments on May's legacy. Notable condemnation of her willingness to make life miserable for random people. I agree. Brexit was never going to fly. But if you can't make life better for people, at least do them no harm.
https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/11369421115243069450 -
If May really wanted to divide the country she would have gone straight to No Deal or revoke or EUref2FF43 said:Vicious comments on May's legacy. Notable condemnation of her willingness to make life miserable for random people. I agree. Brexit was never going to fly. But if you can't make life better for people, at least do them no harm.
https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/11369421115243069450 -
Looks like it. There will be some big pushes on Monday which may shift things around a bit, and I assume that there will be a serious attempt to highlight Boris's weaknesses at some point, but it's hard to see the basic dynamic changing.HYUFD said:
Agreed, it looks like Boris v Gove or Hunt to the membership and Boris wins.
Raab as you say will get to the last 4 on a No Deal ticket but no further, be knocked out and then most of his backers transfer to Boris so Boris then likely comes top with MPs and it is between Gove and Hunt as to who faces Boris in the runoff
That said, whoever gets into the last 2 should shorten to 5 at least. Gove at 12.5 may be a good trading bet.1 -
I actually agree with you there, I would have no problem with a Scottish or Welsh CSU style party as a sister of English Tories and I suspect Boris would not either. However Davidson is not there yetYBarddCwsc said:
The correct decision for the Scottish Tories & the Welsh Tories is to be completely separate parties, independent parties of the English Tories (like CDU/CSU).HYUFD said:
Indeed and sometimes people forget 38% of Scots voted Leave, more than have ever voted for Ruth Davidson's Tories even in 2017. Without Scottish Leave voters as the European elections proved the Scottish Tories are back to barely more than 10%felix said:
Not sure about that - there will always be a need for a party of the centre right in all countries and Scotland is no exception to it.Alistair said:
It's over. Boris becoming leader ends the Ruth Davidson Project.felix said:
I agree about Boris - don't know about Gove. I know you won't agree but Ruth's achievement in leading the Tories to second place in Scotland is truly one of the brightest features of the party's fortunes in decades.StuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.
It is possible that the election of Boris may precipitate that in Scotland.
There is a centre right in both countries, and independent Tory parties would enable them to tap into the right-of-centre Nationalist-inclined vote more easily. (This is quite a substantial constituency in rural North Wales).
It would also put Labour in a fix in Wales.0 -
Gove also polls slightly better with Tory members v Boris than Hunt does so yes there may be value thereNickPalmer said:
Looks like it. There will be some big pushes on Monday which may shift things around a bit, and I assume that there will be a serious attempt to highlight Boris's weaknesses at some point, but it's hard to see the basic dynamic changing.HYUFD said:
Agreed, it looks like Boris v Gove or Hunt to the membership and Boris wins.
Raab as you say will get to the last 4 on a No Deal ticket but no further, be knocked out and then most of his backers transfer to Boris so Boris then likely comes top with MPs and it is between Gove and Hunt as to who faces Boris in the runoff
That said, whoever gets into the last 2 should shorten to 5 at least. Gove at 12.5 may be a good trading bet.0 -
Hope no one has their hard earned money in Neil Woodford's fund.
Does not look good, that they have suspended been able to take your money out.0 -
The role of PM is utterly unforgiving. Boris has shown he is not up to being a Cabinet minister, so seems highly unlikely he will be able to cope with being PM.Sean_F said:
Just not up to it, as Attlee put it.FF43 said:Vicious comments on May's legacy. Notable condemnation of her willingness to make life miserable for random people. I agree. Brexit was never going to fly. But if you can't make life better for people, at least do them no harm.
https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/1136942111524306945
We shall shortly find out, that's if he doesn't get confidence voted before he even gets to the Palace.0 -
Boris was Mayor of London for 8 years, a city of 8 million people and bigger then some countries and has showed he can hold an executive role and get re elected.rottenborough said:
The role of PM is utterly unforgiving. Boris has shown he is not up to being a Cabinet minister, so seems highly unlikely he will be able to cope with being PM.Sean_F said:
Just not up to it, as Attlee put it.FF43 said:Vicious comments on May's legacy. Notable condemnation of her willingness to make life miserable for random people. I agree. Brexit was never going to fly. But if you can't make life better for people, at least do them no harm.
https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/1136942111524306945
We shall shortly find out, that's if he doesn't get confidence voted before he even gets to the Palace.
Boris resigned from the Cabinet because of the temporary Customs Union. As I said before Boris could dump the Customs Union from the future relationship and screw the DUP if he loses a VONC and just keep the backstop for Northern Ireland until a new technical solution is found given most voters do not want a hard border while at the same time ensuring that if the Withdrawal Agreement passes GB leaves the single market and Customs Union. Boris could win a majority at a general election on that0 -
0
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A seperate Scottish Unionist party was Murdo Fraser's idea at the SCon leadership election.
Davidson shat all over that to win the leadership, that was basically her pitch.0 -
Could be a bigger issue if other similar funds also have liquidity issues. I see Hargreaves are starting to fret about some of their multi funds (ones that invest in other funds like Woodfords).malcolmg said:
I have some money in it but not enough to be a big issue , only about £10KYorkcity said:Hope no one has their hard earned money in Neil Woodford's fund.
Does not look good, that they have suspended been able to take your money out.0 -
That is the main thrust of the Matthew Parris article in The Times todayrottenborough said:The role of PM is utterly unforgiving. Boris has shown he is not up to being a Cabinet minister, so seems highly unlikely he will be able to cope with being PM.
We shall shortly find out, that's if he doesn't get confidence voted before he even gets to the Palace.0 -
He resigned from the cabinet because David Davis resigned from the cabinet and he wanted to avoid being outmanoeuvred.HYUFD said:Boris resigned from the Cabinet because of the temporary Customs Union.
1 -
Was it not Major who introduced it?StuartDickson said:
Indeed, Thatcher was the beginning of the end. She was not a conservative, she was a revolutionary.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ironically, Theresa May should have been that leader. Think back to her JAMs speech. Trouble is, while she might have been a good Conservative, she was a lousy politician. We might one day look back and see we left the EU with what looks suspiciously like May's WA, and pay for social care with May's dementia tax, under a different name of course. But Theresa May far better represented the old Tory party in the country than did the Notting Hill trustafarians around Cameron or the economic radicals round Thatcher.rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
There are many examples of her animosity towards conservatism, but funnily enough one of her very late introductions sticks in my mind: the National Lottery. She, quite rightly, resisted the suggestion for a decade, but caved in in the end. The Big State, week in week out fleeces the absolute poorest people in society. It is a National Disgrace and a National Shame. Of course charlatan Blair loved it too.
A true conservative would abolish the National Lottery, ban the gambling industry from advertising, and protect the vulnerable from one of society’s most persistent evils.0 -
On the Chatterati's track record in recent years, PM Boris is going to massively surprise on the upside.Scott_P said:
That is the main thrust of the Matthew Parris article in The Times todayrottenborough said:The role of PM is utterly unforgiving. Boris has shown he is not up to being a Cabinet minister, so seems highly unlikely he will be able to cope with being PM.
We shall shortly find out, that's if he doesn't get confidence voted before he even gets to the Palace.0 -
Boris now getting support from all wings of the party and almost as many former Remain MPs backing him as former Leave MPs, Chloe Smith from the Cameroon former Remainer wing and Owen Paterson from the No Deal, hard Brexit wing, as well as former May ally and Defence Secretary Michael Fallon.rottenborough said:
Hancock and Hunt now the clear candidates of the Remain wing and Raab the clear candidate of the Leave wing of the party based on the percentage of their MP support0 -
Yeah, no...MarqueeMark said:On the Chatterati's track record in recent years, PM Boris is going to massively surprise on the upside.
0 -
A good politician knows how to get round that.Alistair said:A seperate Scottish Unionist party was Murdo Fraser's idea at the SCon leadership election.
Davidson shat all over that to win the leadership, that was basically her pitch.
You simply say, "Circumstances have changed".0 -
-
-
I am interested in Penny Mordaunt's decision. I hope she sits this out and then in a great place to be the next leader.rottenborough said:
Also if she backs Boris that would be a big moment0 -
LOL that’s hilarious.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tell them it is ok now, old Rupe no longer owns Sky.Theuniondivvie said:
Worth it, though the universal acclaim is encouraging my own snobbery to make me doubt myself. Oddly the one Chernobyl obsessive I know hasn't watched it because he refuses to take Sky due to the Murdoch connection.AlastairMeeks said:I’ve not watched Game Of Thrones either, but I don’t watch much TV anyway. I could write a long list of acclaimed TV shows I’ve not seen.
I’m thinking I might make the effort to look at Chernobyl.
Or would they prefer this.
Russia makes own version of Chernobyl disaster series, blaming CIA agent for nuclear explosion following success of Sky Original mini-series
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/furious-russia-makes-own-version-of-chernobyl-disaster-blaming-cia-agent-for-nuclear-disaster-a4161766.html
Meanwhile, according to my Russian-speaking wife, there are a load of pirate sites showing the Sky/HBO version complete with Russian dubbing and subtitles, all done within a day of the original English broadcast. There’s a little cottage industry, probably of technology, language and drama students, who are uploading most Western series in Russian within a day or two.0 -
It was reported the other day that Gavin Williamson was making the pitch to Tory MPs, "BoZo is going to win, why not back the winning side?", and it appeared to be workingHYUFD said:Boris now getting support from all wings of the party, Chloe Smith from the Cameroon former Remainer wing and Owen Paterson from the No Deal, hard Brexit wing, as well as former May ally and Defence Secretary Michael Fallon.
Hancock now the clear candidate of the Remain wing and Raab the clear candidate of the Leave wing of the party based on the percentage of their MP support0 -
Yes some of them are a bit incestuous. I have a big spread of different types so hopefully will not become a big issue.rottenborough said:
Could be a bigger issue if other similar funds also have liquidity issues. I see Hargreaves are starting to fret about some of their multi funds (ones that invest in other funds like Woodfords).malcolmg said:
I have some money in it but not enough to be a big issue , only about £10KYorkcity said:Hope no one has their hard earned money in Neil Woodford's fund.
Does not look good, that they have suspended been able to take your money out.0 -
Often does.Scott_P said:
It was reported the other day that Gavin Williamson was making the pitch to Tory MPs, "BoZo is going to win, why not back the winning side?", and it appeared to be workingHYUFD said:Boris now getting support from all wings of the party, Chloe Smith from the Cameroon former Remainer wing and Owen Paterson from the No Deal, hard Brexit wing, as well as former May ally and Defence Secretary Michael Fallon.
Hancock now the clear candidate of the Remain wing and Raab the clear candidate of the Leave wing of the party based on the percentage of their MP support0 -
Backing Boris in return for keeping the Defence Sec. job would be a smart move by Penny. If only to keep Boris-backing Gavin Williamson from having another go.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am interested in Penny Mordaunt's decision. I hope she sits this out and then in a great place to be the next leader.rottenborough said:
Also if she backs Boris that would be a big moment0 -
Sounds like Woodford has exposed a problem with these funds investing in stuff that is not quick and easy to liquidate.malcolmg said:
Yes some of them are a bit incestuous. I have a big spread of different types so hopefully will not become a big issue.rottenborough said:
Could be a bigger issue if other similar funds also have liquidity issues. I see Hargreaves are starting to fret about some of their multi funds (ones that invest in other funds like Woodfords).malcolmg said:
I have some money in it but not enough to be a big issue , only about £10KYorkcity said:Hope no one has their hard earned money in Neil Woodford's fund.
Does not look good, that they have suspended been able to take your money out.
Regulation will be tightened I suspect.0 -
Good morning. Recent endorsements: Owen Paterson and Michael Fallon for Boris Johnson.0
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For this to be effective they would have to move away from the name Conservative and Tory, names which are even bigger vote losers in Wales and Scotland than in England. They would need to be seen as center right parties who are independent from the English Conservatives and be prepared to bargain in a Coalition. I think that is quite a big ask, and they would inevitably lose financial support if they split.YBarddCwsc said:
The correct decision for the Scottish Tories & the Welsh Tories is to be completely separate parties, independent parties of the English Tories (like CDU/CSU).
It is possible that the election of Boris may precipitate that in Scotland.
There is a centre right in both countries, and independent Tory parties would enable them to tap into the right-of-centre Nationalist-inclined vote more easily. (This is quite a substantial constituency in rural North Wales).
It would also put Labour in a fix in Wales.
I do not see the CDU/CSU route as being a good one though. The CSU are considered arrogant by many outside of Bavaria. They pick and choose whether they are one party with the CDU or a separate party within a coalition. They form a separate party when negotiating the coalition contract and demand a place in the top 3 ministries. But they also expect to alternate prospective chancellors with the CDU even though no CSU prospective chancellor has won a Bundestag election.
0 -
Not at all it was sheer luck. Lib Dems vanquished and Labour destroying themselves gave them a temporary boost. Her single policy , "No referendum" is a busted flush now and she is invisible and circling the drain.malcolmg said:
I agree about Boris - don't know about Gove. I know you won't agree but Ruth's achievement in leading the Tories to second place in Scotland is truly one of the brightest features of the party's fortunes in decades.
PS: they are also rans in Scotland , miles and miles behind and no hope of ever being in charge, hardly success.
At some point people will get tired of the SNP - it's a pretty iron law of politics. Who do you expect to be the beneficiaries? (Genuine question.)0 -
Yep, that looks like the final 4.HYUFD said:
Boris now getting support from all wings of the party and almost as many former Remain MPs backing him as former Leave MPs, Chloe Smith from the Cameroon former Remainer wing and Owen Paterson from the No Deal, hard Brexit wing, as well as former May ally and Defence Secretary Michael Fallon.rottenborough said:
Hancock and Hunt now the clear candidates of the Remain wing and Raab the clear candidate of the Leave wing of the party based on the percentage of their MP support0 -
She is a one horse p(h)ony. practiced liar and all round charlatan , she will be sucking up to Boris in short order.YBarddCwsc said:
A good politician knows how to get round that.Alistair said:A seperate Scottish Unionist party was Murdo Fraser's idea at the SCon leadership election.
Davidson shat all over that to win the leadership, that was basically her pitch.
You simply say, "Circumstances have changed".0 -
I am starting to think Gove winning the leadership is a smart bet.
If he gets to the final 2 there must surely be a chance of Boris self-destructing. Although many consider his mannerisms odd Gove does have a knack of speaking persuasively and convincingly.
As someone said on the thread last night his ‘confession’ must mean he at least thinks he’s got a chance, to be “clearing decks” early on.
Note: in many ways Boris is the British Trump and many commentators thought he would implode during the primaries, so it’s far from guaranteed, but it must at least be considered.0 -
Lee Rowley and Ben Bradley have been out with Esther on her Blue Collar Tory tour.
I expect they're deciding whether to back her or go for Boris at the moment.0 -
"Corbyn to drop social mobility as Labour goal in favour of opportunity for all
Party leader says idea has failed and calls instead for social justice commission"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal0 -
If you think Gove will be in the last two and shorten to 5, what price will Boris be? 1.2, 1.3? That's a hypothetical question but the point is the value might actually be with Boris (and also look at Shadsy's pairs market, I suppose).HYUFD said:
Gove also polls slightly better with Tory members v Boris than Hunt does so yes there may be value thereNickPalmer said:
Looks like it. There will be some big pushes on Monday which may shift things around a bit, and I assume that there will be a serious attempt to highlight Boris's weaknesses at some point, but it's hard to see the basic dynamic changing.HYUFD said:
Agreed, it looks like Boris v Gove or Hunt to the membership and Boris wins.
Raab as you say will get to the last 4 on a No Deal ticket but no further, be knocked out and then most of his backers transfer to Boris so Boris then likely comes top with MPs and it is between Gove and Hunt as to who faces Boris in the runoff
That said, whoever gets into the last 2 should shorten to 5 at least. Gove at 12.5 may be a good trading bet.
I'm green on both Hunt and Gove so ignoring my book and trying to think about who would make the best prime minister, I'd worry that while Hunt is a better Foreign Secretary than Boris, and a better Health Secretary than Lansley, those are two pretty low bars. The risk with Gove is he is May in trousers. He does not build consensus and can start a fight in a phone box; it is not enough in politics to be right if you cannot persuade others to vote the same way, or even see the need for it.0 -
I don't really agree with Goodwin (I presume Matthew) about England/Britain(?) being a conservative country. What we are witnessing is a vast pace of change across society for all kinds of reasons. That bothers people - but then it bothers those in other countries as well.
Goodwin is speaking from the perspective of middle class Londoners. If you live in a palace you might think everyone else is poor. Does that mean they are? If you're from the middle east you'll think everywhere else is cold.0 -
It should be repurposed in perpetuity as [Theresa] May Day as a sort of counterpart to Guy Fawkes night.Scott_P said:0 -
Yes in 1994, I remember it was soon after I started my degree.Philip_Thompson said:
Was it not Major who introduced it?StuartDickson said:
Indeed, Thatcher was the beginning of the end. She was not a conservative, she was a revolutionary.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ironically, Theresa May should have been that leader. Think back to her JAMs speech. Trouble is, while she might have been a good Conservative, she was a lousy politician. We might one day look back and see we left the EU with what looks suspiciously like May's WA, and pay for social care with May's dementia tax, under a different name of course. But Theresa May far better represented the old Tory party in the country than did the Notting Hill trustafarians around Cameron or the economic radicals round Thatcher.rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
There are many examples of her animosity towards conservatism, but funnily enough one of her very late introductions sticks in my mind: the National Lottery. She, quite rightly, resisted the suggestion for a decade, but caved in in the end. The Big State, week in week out fleeces the absolute poorest people in society. It is a National Disgrace and a National Shame. Of course charlatan Blair loved it too.
A true conservative would abolish the National Lottery, ban the gambling industry from advertising, and protect the vulnerable from one of society’s most persistent evils.0 -
Yes as mentioned before he wants to replace social mobility with socialismAndyJS said:"Corbyn to drop social mobility as Labour goal in favour of opportunity for all
Party leader says idea has failed and calls instead for social justice commission"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal0 -
I think you are right about the name.eristdoof said:
For this to be effective they would have to move away from the name Conservative and Tory, names which are even bigger vote losers in Wales and Scotland than in England. They would need to be seen as center right parties who are independent from the English Conservatives and be prepared to bargain in a Coalition. I think that is quite a big ask, and they would inevitably lose financial support if they split.YBarddCwsc said:
The correct decision for the Scottish Tories & the Welsh Tories is to be completely separate parties, independent parties of the English Tories (like CDU/CSU).
It is possible that the election of Boris may precipitate that in Scotland.
There is a centre right in both countries, and independent Tory parties would enable them to tap into the right-of-centre Nationalist-inclined vote more easily. (This is quite a substantial constituency in rural North Wales).
It would also put Labour in a fix in Wales.0 -
If she is running, she is leaving it incredibly late.MarqueeMark said:
Backing Boris in return for keeping the Defence Sec. job would be a smart move by Penny. If only to keep Boris-backing Gavin Williamson from having another go.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am interested in Penny Mordaunt's decision. I hope she sits this out and then in a great place to be the next leader.rottenborough said:
Also if she backs Boris that would be a big moment0 -
Correct, the National Lottery was John Major’s achievement, not Thatcher’s. Launched in 1994.williamglenn said:
I don't think that's quite right. The National Lottery was introduced by John Major's government after a manifesto commitment in 1992.StuartDickson said:Indeed, Thatcher was the beginning of the end. She was not a conservative, she was a revolutionary.
There are many examples of her animosity towards conservatism, but funnily enough one of her very late introductions sticks in my mind: the National Lottery. She, quite rightly, resisted the suggestion for a decade, but caved in in the end. The Big State, week in week out fleeces the absolute poorest people in society. It is a National Disgrace and a National Shame. Of course charlatan Blair loved it too.
A true conservative would abolish the National Lottery, ban the gambling industry from advertising, and protect the vulnerable from one of society’s most persistent evils.
http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml0 -
Another day, another couple of anti semitism stories and Labour
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7118151/Labour-MP-Rupa-Huq-accused-anti-Semitism-former-employee.html
Did someone say something about a moral crusade?
1 -
At some point people will get tired of the SNP - it's a pretty iron law of politics. Who do you expect to be the beneficiaries? (Genuine question.)NickPalmer said:
Not at all it was sheer luck. Lib Dems vanquished and Labour destroying themselves gave them a temporary boost. Her single policy , "No referendum" is a busted flush now and she is invisible and circling the drain.malcolmg said:
I agree about Boris - don't know about Gove. I know you won't agree but Ruth's achievement in leading the Tories to second place in Scotland is truly one of the brightest features of the party's fortunes in decades.
PS: they are also rans in Scotland , miles and miles behind and no hope of ever being in charge, hardly success.
At present there is little sign that anyone is tiring of the SNP, the opposition are really dire. My guess if they did it would be to a new independence party fed up waiting for the referendum.
I cannot imagine the Tories getting beyond a small fixed base and there is no sign that Labour can ever recover , they are just so bad. Only hope for Labour and Tories is to become a Scottish party rather than just message boys for London. Lib Dems are also rans as well. Why Labour did not support independence I will never know, they would have cleaned up afterwards but preferred to destroy themselves instead.
For me nothing will change till after independence and then the SNP will split.0 -
Ah - everyone other than party members get royally fecked then?HYUFD said:
Yes as mentioned before he wants to replace social mobility with socialismAndyJS said:"Corbyn to drop social mobility as Labour goal in favour of opportunity for all
Party leader says idea has failed and calls instead for social justice commission"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal
Good to know.0 -
Blair, Brown and Gould took the view that England was basically a conservative country and so winning for Labour meant not scaring the horses too much.FrankBooth said:I don't really agree with Goodwin (I presume Matthew) about England/Britain(?) being a conservative country. What we are witnessing is a vast pace of change across society for all kinds of reasons. That bothers people - but then it bothers those in other countries as well.
Goodwin is speaking from the perspective of middle class Londoners. If you live in a palace you might think everyone else is poor. Does that mean they are? If you're from the middle east you'll think everywhere else is cold.
Needless to say Jezza wont be taking that approach, although John McD clearly sees the risk.0 -
Gove is certainly our Hilary, sneaky lying conniving no user.numbertwelve said:I am starting to think Gove winning the leadership is a smart bet.
If he gets to the final 2 there must surely be a chance of Boris self-destructing. Although many consider his mannerisms odd Gove does have a knack of speaking persuasively and convincingly.
As someone said on the thread last night his ‘confession’ must mean he at least thinks he’s got a chance, to be “clearing decks” early on.
Note: in many ways Boris is the British Trump and many commentators thought he would implode during the primaries, so it’s far from guaranteed, but it must at least be considered.0 -
Does he have a personal email server as well?malcolmg said:
Gove is certainly our Hilary, sneaky lying conniving no user.numbertwelve said:I am starting to think Gove winning the leadership is a smart bet.
If he gets to the final 2 there must surely be a chance of Boris self-destructing. Although many consider his mannerisms odd Gove does have a knack of speaking persuasively and convincingly.
As someone said on the thread last night his ‘confession’ must mean he at least thinks he’s got a chance, to be “clearing decks” early on.
Note: in many ways Boris is the British Trump and many commentators thought he would implode during the primaries, so it’s far from guaranteed, but it must at least be considered.0 -
I was quite young then but I do remember the first draw and how excited everyone was about having a ticket. Took a while for reality to hit that the odds were minuscule...Sandpit said:
Correct, the National Lottery was John Major’s achievement, not Thatcher’s. Launched in 1994.williamglenn said:
I don't think that's quite right. The National Lottery was introduced by John Major's government after a manifesto commitment in 1992.StuartDickson said:Indeed, Thatcher was the beginning of the end. She was not a conservative, she was a revolutionary.
There are many examples of her animosity towards conservatism, but funnily enough one of her very late introductions sticks in my mind: the National Lottery. She, quite rightly, resisted the suggestion for a decade, but caved in in the end. The Big State, week in week out fleeces the absolute poorest people in society. It is a National Disgrace and a National Shame. Of course charlatan Blair loved it too.
A true conservative would abolish the National Lottery, ban the gambling industry from advertising, and protect the vulnerable from one of society’s most persistent evils.
http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml0 -
If Corbyn is ditching the term social mobility then for once he has my support. We should be talking about job/career mobility. I don't care whether someone wants to self-identify as 'middle class.'0
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On thread - am I the only one here wot hasn't watched GoT?
I am vaguely aware that Captain Phasma and Qi'ra from the new Star Wars "films" are also in GoT
0 -
Scots see right through him.malcolmg said:
Gove is certainly our Hilary, sneaky lying conniving no user.numbertwelve said:I am starting to think Gove winning the leadership is a smart bet.
If he gets to the final 2 there must surely be a chance of Boris self-destructing. Although many consider his mannerisms odd Gove does have a knack of speaking persuasively and convincingly.
As someone said on the thread last night his ‘confession’ must mean he at least thinks he’s got a chance, to be “clearing decks” early on.
Note: in many ways Boris is the British Trump and many commentators thought he would implode during the primaries, so it’s far from guaranteed, but it must at least be considered.0 -
She’s definitely a good bet for leader after next, a rare politician unafraid to show a wicked sense of humour. Too young and inexperienced this time though, hopefully she can get a more senior job under the new leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am interested in Penny Mordaunt's decision. I hope she sits this out and then in a great place to be the next leader.rottenborough said:
Also if she backs Boris that would be a big moment0 -
I haven't. I usually watch TV shows about 20 years after they were famous, which is why I watched the original run of Twin Peaks recently.Sunil_Prasannan said:On thread - am I the only one here wot hasn't watched GoT?
I am vaguely aware that Captain Phasma and Qi'ra from the new Star Wars "films" are also in GoT0 -
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Heavy user, actually.malcolmg said:
Gove is certainly our Hilary, sneaky lying conniving no user.numbertwelve said:I am starting to think Gove winning the leadership is a smart bet.
If he gets to the final 2 there must surely be a chance of Boris self-destructing. Although many consider his mannerisms odd Gove does have a knack of speaking persuasively and convincingly.
As someone said on the thread last night his ‘confession’ must mean he at least thinks he’s got a chance, to be “clearing decks” early on.
Note: in many ways Boris is the British Trump and many commentators thought he would implode during the primaries, so it’s far from guaranteed, but it must at least be considered.0 -
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Do any of these “managed” funds regularly beat a major Western index tracker over a decade or more, when their extortionate fees are taken out?rottenborough said:
Sounds like Woodford has exposed a problem with these funds investing in stuff that is not quick and easy to liquidate.malcolmg said:
Yes some of them are a bit incestuous. I have a big spread of different types so hopefully will not become a big issue.rottenborough said:
Could be a bigger issue if other similar funds also have liquidity issues. I see Hargreaves are starting to fret about some of their multi funds (ones that invest in other funds like Woodfords).malcolmg said:
I have some money in it but not enough to be a big issue , only about £10KYorkcity said:Hope no one has their hard earned money in Neil Woodford's fund.
Does not look good, that they have suspended been able to take your money out.
Regulation will be tightened I suspect.0 -
“John Major is often credited with bringing in the National Lottery, but it was Sir Ivan Lawrence who kickstarted the ball-dropping enterprise.
He explained the background to his 1991 Private Member's Bill and why Margaret Thatcher was far from keen on the enterprise.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-15027222/national-lottery-sir-ivan-lawrence-on-margaret-thatcher-s-doubts0 -
I think we're becoming over-obsessed with the second world war. Not healthy.Scott_P said:0
