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Do I detect a hint of green cheese in thatStark_Dawning said:
The hate-fill xenophobes tend to be more those baby-boomer sods, with their LSD-addled brains from the summer of love and generous pensions.Morris_Dancer said:It seems likely that there's a range of views across all age groups. Although it's eyebrow-raising to see the hate-filled, xenophobic coffin-dodgers have suddenly transmogrified into noble, heroic, pro-EU sages.
Perhaps better to avoid stereotyping generally, and to discuss issues than castigate people (particularly based on their demography, which is sheer bigotry).0 -
The Daily Mail has had considerably more antisemitic eras than the Labour Party when you come to think about it.WhisperingOracle said:
Nice rebuke to the Daily Mail too, which in an earlier anti-semitic era they seem to have forgotten about, ran a campaign against him in the "dangerous cosmpolitan" vein.rottenborough said:Talking of the Prince over the Water:
https://twitter.com/DMiliband/status/11362647416119255041 -
Did anyone take my tip last night of a 35% return by betting on New Zealand against Bangladesh? It's now 20%.0
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Dear Liza, dear LizaRichard_Nabavi said:
Sounded like it this morning. It's a hole in my book.Tissue_Price said:I am very hopeful of a decent Mordaunt trade. Surely she is running?
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Steve Baker is the Bible Bashing Rambo of our times. He really is a nutjob . Indeed the ERG as a whole should be sectioned .Nigel_Foremain said:
Yet another militaristic quotation from another nerdy Brexiteer. They really are pathetic.Scott_P said:0 -
So astute on the Hard Brexit Right and yet so jaundiced about the Progressive Left.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr D, the Brexit Party IS a party of the far right. The fact that people like you who are clearly at the moderate end of Brexit opinion will not recognise it as such is a great pity. Farage is a racist and is energised by the polluted air of divisive populism. He doesn't wear jackboots and do funny salutes, but that doesn't rule him out from being a "modern" fascist.
His backstory from his school days, his behaviour to others in his own party and his deplorable poster all tells us what he is. The fact that 32% of the population is gullible enough, or right wing enough, to support him is sad, but it does not surprise me. Britain is no more immune to extremism than anywhere else.
How can this be?0 -
The adult population of the UK is 51 million. Considerably less than half the adult population voted for voluntary self harm.The tyranny of a binary and simplistic referendum should not go unchallenged.felix said:
What ? All 18 million of them. Face it - the vote was lost.Nigel_Foremain said:
Brexiteers are not conservatives in the real sense. They are wreckers and revolutionaries, who are quite happy to risk economic chaos to pursue their small minded ideology. Conservatives like to maintain stability. The Conservative Party is no more.WhisperingOracle said:
I would say the generation after are actually more conservative. Many of the most vociferous brexiters seem to be around 55-65.Stark_Dawning said:
The hate-fill xenophobes tend to me more those baby-boomer sods, with their LSD-addled brains from the summer of love and generous pensions.Morris_Dancer said:It seems likely that there's a range of views across all age groups. Although it's eyebrow-raising to see the hate-filled, xenophobic coffin-dodgers have suddenly transmogrified into noble, heroic, pro-EU sages.
Perhaps better to avoid stereotyping generally, and to discuss issues than castigate people (particularly based on their demography, which is sheer bigotry).0 -
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The Tories would bite their own hands off to secure as high as 17%. Dead as the dodo for the time being.Sean_F said:
47% for Conservative and Labour seems optimistic.Tissue_Price said:-1 -
Lot of wasted effort to just get mullered by Boris in the members' vote.Tissue_Price said:0 -
Do we have any evidence that there are any actual ex-Change MPs involved in this, and it isn't just a bunch of 20-year olds talking on WhatsApp?Scott_P said:
I mean, the only one to have surfaced so far (in a reply to Layla Moran) appears to be an over-enthusiastic but not particularly connected 20-year old.0 -
Actually being in the war and watching lots of war films have different effects on one’s attitude toward Europe? Who’d have thought.dixiedean said:@RobD
Here is the article about war time generation being more Remainery.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/21/not-all-the-over-65s-are-in-favour-of-brexit-britains-wartime-generation-are-almost-as-pro-eu-as-millennials/0 -
my 79yo auntie has been on two peoples vote marches in london. lives in yorkshire so made an effort.anothernick said:
I believe that there is data showing that voters over 85 were predominantly remain, it's the slightly younger group - 55-75 - that gave leave its majority.RobD said:
Do they, or are we relying on anecdotes again?anothernick said:
Puts the faux nostalgia and sanitised WW2 tales of derring-do from the time Britain stood "alone" in perspective. Those who were actually there at the time take a different view.Nigel_Foremain said:
Indeed. A man who really has worn khaki rather than Farridge and his pathetic leaked picture of himself whilst in his public school CCF.Scott_P said:0 -
MEPs official portraits
https://multimedia.europarl.europa.eu/en/official-portraits-of-meps-9th-parliamentary-term-starting-02-july-2019_12401_pk
United Kingdom...21 already up...but one is an intruder
https://multimedia.europarl.europa.eu/en/british-meps-official-portrait-9th-parliamentary-term_EP-089406AB_9th_MEP_Official_uk_c0 -
Looking at the latest Tory leadership figures, it seems like what it's going to boil down to is which of Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove joins Boris Johnson in the members' ballot.0
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There’s probably a fair few Tory Remainers in this seat, and the LDs here are not much of a feature, so they may stick with the Conservatives to reduce the damage.kle4 said:
The Tories would bite their own hands off to secure as high as 17%. Dead as the dodo for the time being.Sean_F said:
47% for Conservative and Labour seems optimistic.Tissue_Price said:0 -
I think a lot of the whole Brexit thing amongst 70 year olds (i.e. post war) is nostalgia for the 1950s.IanB2 said:
Actually being in the war and watching lots of war films have different effects on one’s attitude toward Europe? Who’d have thought.dixiedean said:@RobD
Here is the article about war time generation being more Remainery.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/21/not-all-the-over-65s-are-in-favour-of-brexit-britains-wartime-generation-are-almost-as-pro-eu-as-millennials/
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Doesn’t look goodAlastairMeeks said:0 -
Hell, yes, he's tough.williamglenn said:0 -
That gets them to the last two, but remainyness won't help afterwards.IanB2 said:
Both of them have worked out that the MPs votes are on the Remain side of Boris.AndyJS said:Looking at the latest Tory leadership figures, it seems like what it's going to boil down to is which of Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove joins Boris Johnson in the members' ballot.
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At last one of them being honest about Brexit?williamglenn said:0 -
You say that but I challenge you to name 5 significant LD policies without googling. I could do remain in the EU and PR. That’s it.felix said:
At some point hopefully in the not too distant future a party of the centre right has to emerge and take up the mantle. In Spain it increasingly looks as if Ciudadanos may be replacing PP. Unfortunately the Lds in the UK are way too left-wing for most centre-right voters except on the one issue.Richard_Nabavi said:
God, I'd have to vote LibDem.Pulpstar said:They'll never let Baker into the contest, but I think he'd romp home with the membership probably even against Boris.
Come to think of it, I might have to vote LibDem anyway. This is not an agreeable prospect.
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Not renew Trident?matt said:
You say that but I challenge you to name 5 significant LD policies without googling. I could do remain in the EU and PR. That’s it.felix said:
At some point hopefully in the not too distant future a party of the centre right has to emerge and take up the mantle. In Spain it increasingly looks as if Ciudadanos may be replacing PP. Unfortunately the Lds in the UK are way too left-wing for most centre-right voters except on the one issue.Richard_Nabavi said:
God, I'd have to vote LibDem.Pulpstar said:They'll never let Baker into the contest, but I think he'd romp home with the membership probably even against Boris.
Come to think of it, I might have to vote LibDem anyway. This is not an agreeable prospect.0 -
Well Brexit is a pile of stupid crap...williamglenn said:0 -
Get your pro-Gove spin on the hustings in this thread.
https://twitter.com/tomtugendhat/status/1136305511215882240?s=210 -
Yep. Mordaunt looking far too late to this party as it stands.AndyJS said:Looking at the latest Tory leadership figures, it seems like what it's going to boil down to is which of Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove joins Boris Johnson in the members' ballot.
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I'm reading Peter Hitchen's latest book "The Phoney Victory: The World War II Illusion". It pours cold water on most of the most cherished "myths" that people hold about the war.0
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You mean they want rationing back?rottenborough said:
I think a lot of the whole Brexit thing amongst 70 year olds (i.e. post war) is nostalgia for the 1950s.IanB2 said:
Actually being in the war and watching lots of war films have different effects on one’s attitude toward Europe? Who’d have thought.dixiedean said:@RobD
Here is the article about war time generation being more Remainery.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/21/not-all-the-over-65s-are-in-favour-of-brexit-britains-wartime-generation-are-almost-as-pro-eu-as-millennials/0 -
I would have thought that "Coalition" is the more toxic word for the Lib Dems...Scott_P said:1 -
Well he did buy a lot of fridges, so he's probably got more shit done than most of the Cabinet in the last 9 months.williamglenn said:0 -
Not at the last election, it appears. Who speaks for them on Defence? Does it matter any more if we have culture war and detail beyond simplistic black and white appears irrelevant?kle4 said:
Not renew Trident?matt said:
You say that but I challenge you to name 5 significant LD policies without googling. I could do remain in the EU and PR. That’s it.felix said:
At some point hopefully in the not too distant future a party of the centre right has to emerge and take up the mantle. In Spain it increasingly looks as if Ciudadanos may be replacing PP. Unfortunately the Lds in the UK are way too left-wing for most centre-right voters except on the one issue.Richard_Nabavi said:
God, I'd have to vote LibDem.Pulpstar said:They'll never let Baker into the contest, but I think he'd romp home with the membership probably even against Boris.
Come to think of it, I might have to vote LibDem anyway. This is not an agreeable prospect.0 -
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1136304303419875328
Gove is becoming one of the saner runners.
So if it is Gove vs Boris, the membership will decide UK Brexit policy in run up to October.
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Free hash for school kids?kle4 said:
Not renew Trident?matt said:
You say that but I challenge you to name 5 significant LD policies without googling. I could do remain in the EU and PR. That’s it.felix said:
At some point hopefully in the not too distant future a party of the centre right has to emerge and take up the mantle. In Spain it increasingly looks as if Ciudadanos may be replacing PP. Unfortunately the Lds in the UK are way too left-wing for most centre-right voters except on the one issue.Richard_Nabavi said:
God, I'd have to vote LibDem.Pulpstar said:They'll never let Baker into the contest, but I think he'd romp home with the membership probably even against Boris.
Come to think of it, I might have to vote LibDem anyway. This is not an agreeable prospect.
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AndyJS said:
I'm reading Peter Hitchen's latest book "The Phoney Victory: The World War II Illusion". It pours cold water on most of the most cherished "myths" that people hold about the war.
It’s complete nonsense. No better (and probably worse) scholarship than the Rees-Mogg oeuvre. If you believe it, you need to recalibrate.
As supporting evidence, I give you the New Statesman: “Peter Hitchens’s Eurosceptic take on the Second World War is riddled with errors and bizarre theories
The Mail on Sunday columnist, relying on a handful of eccentric studies, argues that September 1939 was the wrong moment for Britain to go to war against Germany.“. Review by Richard Evans, former professor.0 -
They had sex then. It’s all shrivelled to a chipolata and two peanuts now. Not that it’s visible to many.Chris said:
You mean they want rationing back?rottenborough said:
I think a lot of the whole Brexit thing amongst 70 year olds (i.e. post war) is nostalgia for the 1950s.IanB2 said:
Actually being in the war and watching lots of war films have different effects on one’s attitude toward Europe? Who’d have thought.dixiedean said:@RobD
Here is the article about war time generation being more Remainery.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/21/not-all-the-over-65s-are-in-favour-of-brexit-britains-wartime-generation-are-almost-as-pro-eu-as-millennials/0 -
Real fridges too. Unlike Grayling's ferry services.Mauve said:
Well he did buy a lot of fridges, so he's probably got more shit done than most of the Cabinet in the last 9 months.williamglenn said:0 -
Gove is making precisely the point I've been making. A firm commitment to an arbitrary date - which was one of Theresa May's big mistakes - is just nuts.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1136304303419875328
Gove is becoming one of the saner runners.
So if it is Gove vs Boris, the membership will decide UK Brexit policy in run up to October.0 -
Like most politicians they can only focus on what is immediately under their nose.kle4 said:
That gets them to the last two, but remainyness won't help afterwards.IanB2 said:
Both of them have worked out that the MPs votes are on the Remain side of Boris.AndyJS said:Looking at the latest Tory leadership figures, it seems like what it's going to boil down to is which of Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove joins Boris Johnson in the members' ballot.
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I have more respect for him now. Of course it is nuts, but the membership want it, so Boris has said it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Gove is making precisely the point I've been making. A firm commitment to an arbitrary date - which was one of Theresa May's big mistakes - is just nuts.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1136304303419875328
Gove is becoming one of the saner runners.
So if it is Gove vs Boris, the membership will decide UK Brexit policy in run up to October.
The sad thing is that Boris could well win without this insane cliff edge. History will never know.
Still, chances are he will back out of it the morning after winning the vote.0 -
And yet a nuanced position almost always fails before a firm yet simple one. "We must leave the EU by 31 October, no ifs ands or buts" is so much more appealing than a 'We probably will, but in some situations perhaps not" particularly when we've already delayed once and the Remainers are riding high.Richard_Nabavi said:
Gove is making precisely the point I've been making. A firm commitment to an arbitrary date - which was one of Theresa May's big mistakes - is just nuts.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1136304303419875328
Gove is becoming one of the saner runners.
So if it is Gove vs Boris, the membership will decide UK Brexit policy in run up to October.0 -
If you make the last two, then there is always the chance that the other candidate implodes on the hustings trail.IanB2 said:
Like most politicians they can only focus on what is immediately under their nose.kle4 said:
That gets them to the last two, but remainyness won't help afterwards.IanB2 said:
Both of them have worked out that the MPs votes are on the Remain side of Boris.AndyJS said:Looking at the latest Tory leadership figures, it seems like what it's going to boil down to is which of Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove joins Boris Johnson in the members' ballot.
Suddenly, you are last one standing.0 -
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don't tell me. bletchley park didn't shorten the war by 2 years?AndyJS said:I'm reading Peter Hitchen's latest book "The Phoney Victory: The World War II Illusion". It pours cold water on most of the most cherished "myths" that people hold about the war.
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But presumably they broke for leave by a substantial margin given their dying off means there are now more remain voters alive today.dixiedean said:@RobD
Here is the article about war time generation being more Remainery.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/21/not-all-the-over-65s-are-in-favour-of-brexit-britains-wartime-generation-are-almost-as-pro-eu-as-millennials/0 -
Hopefully not in the 1950s.matt said:
They had sex then.Chris said:
You mean they want rationing back?rottenborough said:
I think a lot of the whole Brexit thing amongst 70 year olds (i.e. post war) is nostalgia for the 1950s.IanB2 said:
Actually being in the war and watching lots of war films have different effects on one’s attitude toward Europe? Who’d have thought.dixiedean said:@RobD
Here is the article about war time generation being more Remainery.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/21/not-all-the-over-65s-are-in-favour-of-brexit-britains-wartime-generation-are-almost-as-pro-eu-as-millennials/0 -
It amuses me reading some of the comments on here about Tory prospects due to the Brexit party. Some people talk complete shit! The Brexit party was widely considered a one off protest vote before the European election, now some excitable folk claim it is a sign of people voting Brexit party in perpetuity. We have heard this nonsense before with regard to the 'enduring' nature of one result in 2016!1
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HY is in trouble on item 2.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1136319662214529025
Mordaunt is in trouble on item 3.0 -
Have a little think about how attractive that post makes you look.matt said:
They had sex then. It’s all shrivelled to a chipolata and two peanuts now. Not that it’s visible to many.Chris said:
You mean they want rationing back?rottenborough said:
I think a lot of the whole Brexit thing amongst 70 year olds (i.e. post war) is nostalgia for the 1950s.IanB2 said:
Actually being in the war and watching lots of war films have different effects on one’s attitude toward Europe? Who’d have thought.dixiedean said:@RobD
Here is the article about war time generation being more Remainery.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/21/not-all-the-over-65s-are-in-favour-of-brexit-britains-wartime-generation-are-almost-as-pro-eu-as-millennials/1 -
There's a reasonable chance that photo 2, shows the leader after Jezza:
https://twitter.com/HoCPress/status/11363186683952087050 -
Andrea Leadsom has finally been overtaken by Jeremy Hunt in the betting stakes.
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.1255750940 -
If Patel wins, you'll have bigger problems than your Betfair book.Tissue_Price said:
Having fallen into the classic trap of laying others once I'd specifically deposited to oppose the crazy Leadsom price, my joint book (both markets) is around:Pulpstar said:Is anyone backing or laying Boris further at his current price of 1.91 ?
Hunt +6
Mordaunt / McVey +5
Gove +4
Raab / Javid +3
Johnson +1.5
Hancock +1
Stewart -2
Patel -5
Baker, Leadsom -80 -
A chipolata and two peanuts? After a No Deal Brexit, they'll be lucky.matt said:
They had sex then. It’s all shrivelled to a chipolata and two peanuts now. Not that it’s visible to many.Chris said:
You mean they want rationing back?rottenborough said:
I think a lot of the whole Brexit thing amongst 70 year olds (i.e. post war) is nostalgia for the 1950s.IanB2 said:
Actually being in the war and watching lots of war films have different effects on one’s attitude toward Europe? Who’d have thought.dixiedean said:@RobD
Here is the article about war time generation being more Remainery.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/21/not-all-the-over-65s-are-in-favour-of-brexit-britains-wartime-generation-are-almost-as-pro-eu-as-millennials/0 -
Owen Who?0
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Barry Gardiner? I wouldn't mind that one bit. Capable, straightforward, strong on policy, and a heart of gold.rottenborough said:There's a reasonable chance that photo 2, shows the leader after Jezza:
https://twitter.com/HoCPress/status/1136318668395208705
Does it matter that he's Welsh? I don't see why.1 -
Falconer says this is crap. Courts would block it.williamglenn said:0 -
Please don't anyone start asking the looneys whether they are ruling out the use of strategic nuclear weapons.williamglenn said:0 -
No cliff is so high that contenders can’t find a higher one they’d be willing to try.williamglenn said:0 -
Just utterly hideous. In my professional experience, people who use corporate buzz phrases like 'get shit done' are usually hopeless at actually doing things. I'm sure he's nice to animals and I don't wish him harm, but please for the love of God get him off my screen and out of the running to be Prime flipping MINISTER.Ishmael_Z said:
Hell, yes, he's tough.williamglenn said:0 -
Unless an amendment is attached again to a resubmitted Withdrawal Agreement there is little the Commons can do to stop the PM pursuing No Deal anywayrottenborough said:
Falconer says this is crap. Courts would block it.williamglenn said:0 -
All of them seem to be promising to get shit done by 31 October, apart from Gove who is willing to defer shit incoming until next year. At least this one is prepared to call a spade.Luckyguy1983 said:
Just utterly hideous. In my professional experience, people who use corporate buzz phrases like 'get shit done' are usually hopeless at actually doing things. I'm sure he's nice to animals and I don't wish him harm, but please for the love of God get him off my screen and out of the running to be Prime flipping MINISTER.Ishmael_Z said:
Hell, yes, he's tough.williamglenn said:0 -
Looks like a good day was had by all at the Southsea commemorations for D Day, my sister was marching with the Female Auxiliary Nurses and met Justin Trudeau0
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The Tories seem to forget the next election could be nearly 3 years away.
As long as the UK is out well before then they’ll recover most of their lost votes . This obsession with the October 31 st date is irrational and counter productive .
If the Tories have any sense they’d go for Gove as the best chance of getting an improved deal , and doing something to unite the country.
Bozo has zero chance of getting anything out of the EU, he’s despised and they will never do anything that looks like rewarding a populist who trashed the deal they spent 2 years negotiating .
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Another HY prediction destined for the bin, believe in it or not. The bin, that is. Believe in the bin.HYUFD said:
Unless an amendment is attached again to a resubmitted Withdrawal Agreement there is little the Commons can do to stop the PM pursuing No Deal anywayrottenborough said:
Falconer says this is crap. Courts would block it.williamglenn said:0 -
This is a good, if terrifying, thread. I think he's spot on - Baker is setting up to box in Boris (or any other leader) as he did May:
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1136290887179362307
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Essentially, like a divorcing party taking all the good records, Remain have claimed all young, fresh, dynamic people, but now that we've been reminded of some old people who were quite good and beat Hitler and stuff, they'll have those too. Best not to bring facts into the discussion.tlg86 said:
But presumably they broke for leave by a substantial margin given their dying off means there are now more remain voters alive today.dixiedean said:@RobD
Here is the article about war time generation being more Remainery.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/21/not-all-the-over-65s-are-in-favour-of-brexit-britains-wartime-generation-are-almost-as-pro-eu-as-millennials/0 -
O/T
The South African economy contracted by 3% in the first 3 months of the year.
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-06-04-shock-as-sas-first-quarter-economic-growth-shrinks-by-3-2/0 -
He is talking rubbish on 2IanB2 said:
HY is in trouble on item 2.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1136319662214529025
Mordaunt is in trouble on item 3.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1136006739864825858?s=200 -
Exactly right.paulyork64 said:
don't tell me. bletchley park didn't shorten the war by 2 years?AndyJS said:I'm reading Peter Hitchen's latest book "The Phoney Victory: The World War II Illusion". It pours cold water on most of the most cherished "myths" that people hold about the war.
Hitchens believes that - by allowing the Allies to win - Bletchley Park lengthed the war, increased the amount of human suffering and led inevitably to such abominations as the permissive society.
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Good to see that the LibDems’ newly enhanced voter base is entirely solid and indifferent as to who the crazies choose as their leader.HYUFD said:
He is talking rubbish on 2IanB2 said:
HY is in trouble on item 2.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1136319662214529025
Mordaunt is in trouble on item 3.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1136006739864825858?s=200 -
No, a constitutional fact.IanB2 said:
Another HY prediction destined for the bin, believe in it or not. The bin, that is. Believe in the bin.HYUFD said:
Unless an amendment is attached again to a resubmitted Withdrawal Agreement there is little the Commons can do to stop the PM pursuing No Deal anywayrottenborough said:
Falconer says this is crap. Courts would block it.williamglenn said:
If the executive does not put forward the Withdrawal Agreement again and the Commons cannot pass an amendmemt too it then there is nothing to stop the executive pursuing No Deal.
Plus of course Macron is increasingly likely to veto any further extension beyond October anyway unless for EUref2 in which case it would then be No Deal or revoke if the Withdrawal Agreement has not passed by then0 -
What they are promising is irrelevant to the point. He is not calling anything a spade, he is using swear words, yet again, to try and make himself seem edgy and modern. The lack of self awareness involved makes him an uncomfortable watch.IanB2 said:
All of them seem to be promising to get shit done by 31 October, apart from Gove who is willing to defer shit incoming until next year. At least this one is prepared to call a spade.Luckyguy1983 said:
Just utterly hideous. In my professional experience, people who use corporate buzz phrases like 'get shit done' are usually hopeless at actually doing things. I'm sure he's nice to animals and I don't wish him harm, but please for the love of God get him off my screen and out of the running to be Prime flipping MINISTER.Ishmael_Z said:
Hell, yes, he's tough.williamglenn said:0 -
It’s utter, utter nonsense, aimed squarely at the Daily Mail/Express readership.rcs1000 said:
Exactly right.paulyork64 said:
don't tell me. bletchley park didn't shorten the war by 2 years?AndyJS said:I'm reading Peter Hitchen's latest book "The Phoney Victory: The World War II Illusion". It pours cold water on most of the most cherished "myths" that people hold about the war.
Hitchens believes that - by allowing the Allies to win - Bletchley Park lengthed the war, increased the amount of human suffering and led inevitably to such abominations as the permissive society.0 -
And the LDs tie or lead Labour whoever succeeds May as Tory leader but they only tie or lead the Tories if Javid, Hunt or Gove is Tory leader, not with Boris or Raab.IanB2 said:
Good to see that the LibDems’ newly enhanced voter base is entirely solid and indifferent as to who the crazies choose as their leader.HYUFD said:
He is talking rubbish on 2IanB2 said:
HY is in trouble on item 2.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1136319662214529025
Mordaunt is in trouble on item 3.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1136006739864825858?s=20
The Brexit Party also only tie the Tories if they are led by Hunt or Gove, against Boris, Raab or Javid they trail the Tories0 -
Which sources are giving you your Macron insight?HYUFD said:
No, a constitutional fact.IanB2 said:
Another HY prediction destined for the bin, believe in it or not. The bin, that is. Believe in the bin.HYUFD said:
Unless an amendment is attached again to a resubmitted Withdrawal Agreement there is little the Commons can do to stop the PM pursuing No Deal anywayrottenborough said:
Falconer says this is crap. Courts would block it.williamglenn said:
If the executive does not put forward the Withdrawal Agreement again and the Commons cannot pass an amendmemt too it then there is nothing to stop the executive pursuing No Deal.
Plus of course Macron is increasingly likely to veto any further extension beyond October anyway unless for EUref2 in which case it would then be No Deal or revoke if the Withdrawal Agreement has not passed by then1 -
Boris makes no indent whatsoever on Labour or LibDem or Green support. His former ‘liberal views’ and London-winning ways are very clearly dead, post-2016. He only derives his advantage in that poll from denting BXP support. And that, very quickly, will come to depend on what he would achieve, not what he would promise. If Boris fails, as is quite likely given the Tories queuing to defect the minute he is chosen, that poll finding will be worth nothing.HYUFD said:
He is talking rubbish on 2IanB2 said:
HY is in trouble on item 2.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1136319662214529025
Mordaunt is in trouble on item 3.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1136006739864825858?s=200 -
Any plan that does not mention the impact of dropping out of the EU's laws on double taxation and withholding tax is not a plan.Richard_Nabavi said:This is a good, if terrifying, thread. I think he's spot on - Baker is setting up to box in Boris (or any other leader) as he did May:
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1136290887179362307
In the entire 10 page report , the only mention of tax is in the context of tax cuts.0 -
Why not follow the US model for getting the nomination then creating a different vibe for the general?kle4 said:That gets them to the last two, but remainyness won't help afterwards.
So Hancock, say, is incredibly sane and soft brexity for the MPs, convinces them, makes the final 2 - then pivots and transforms himself into a fire-breathing, sword-wielding No Deal BEAST to seduce the grassroots.
Lack of integrity in that, sure, but integrity is for losers these days.0 -
PB’ers can just file it away, alongside your Macron veto predictions, and compare with what actually comes to pass. Just as they did the last time no deal was consigned to the bin.HYUFD said:
No, a constitutional fact.IanB2 said:
Another HY prediction destined for the bin, believe in it or not. The bin, that is. Believe in the bin.HYUFD said:
Unless an amendment is attached again to a resubmitted Withdrawal Agreement there is little the Commons can do to stop the PM pursuing No Deal anywayrottenborough said:
Falconer says this is crap. Courts would block it.williamglenn said:
If the executive does not put forward the Withdrawal Agreement again and the Commons cannot pass an amendmemt too it then there is nothing to stop the executive pursuing No Deal.
Plus of course Macron is increasingly likely to veto any further extension beyond October anyway unless for EUref2 in which case it would then be No Deal or revoke if the Withdrawal Agreement has not passed by then0 -
In all the Tory leadership mess, no-one seems to have noticed that the US PMI followed the UK in dropping precipitously in May. New orders are now at their worst level in a decade.AndyJS said:O/T
The South African economy contracted by 3% in the first 3 months of the year.
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-06-04-shock-as-sas-first-quarter-economic-growth-shrinks-by-3-2/
PMIs in the Eurozone (excluding France and Spain), the US and the UK all now point to a recession.
It may be that we quickly bounce back, and this will turn out to have been a non-issue. But we're all so obsessed with other things, that we've missed a real darkening of the economic clouds.0 -
Ultimately the Commons can bin the Executive and create another one. If they want to. Nothing the Executive can do to stop them.HYUFD said:
No, a constitutional fact.IanB2 said:
Another HY prediction destined for the bin, believe in it or not. The bin, that is. Believe in the bin.HYUFD said:
Unless an amendment is attached again to a resubmitted Withdrawal Agreement there is little the Commons can do to stop the PM pursuing No Deal anywayrottenborough said:
Falconer says this is crap. Courts would block it.williamglenn said:
If the executive does not put forward the Withdrawal Agreement again and the Commons cannot pass an amendmemt too it then there is nothing to stop the executive pursuing No Deal.
Plus of course Macron is increasingly likely to veto any further extension beyond October anyway unless for EUref2 in which case it would then be No Deal or revoke if the Withdrawal Agreement has not passed by then0 -
He'd have to transform himself into a credible politician first, which would be an extraordinary metamorphosis.kinabalu said:
Why not follow the US model for getting the nomination then creating a different vibe for the general?kle4 said:That gets them to the last two, but remainyness won't help afterwards.
So Hancock, say, is incredibly sane and soft brexity for the MPs, convinces them, makes the final 2 - then pivots and transforms himself into a fire-breathing, sword-wielding No Deal BEAST to seduce the grassroots.
Lack of integrity in that, sure, but integrity is for losers these days.0 -
As per running from the tiger, he doesn’t need to be credible, just less incredible than his opponent.Luckyguy1983 said:
He'd have to transform himself into a credible politician first, which would be an extraordinary metamorphosis.kinabalu said:
Why not follow the US model for getting the nomination then creating a different vibe for the general?kle4 said:That gets them to the last two, but remainyness won't help afterwards.
So Hancock, say, is incredibly sane and soft brexity for the MPs, convinces them, makes the final 2 - then pivots and transforms himself into a fire-breathing, sword-wielding No Deal BEAST to seduce the grassroots.
Lack of integrity in that, sure, but integrity is for losers these days.0 -
Bercow can do what he likes . He can find a way for MPs to suspend the standing orders. The role of the speaker and his power has not until recently come under such scrutiny because governments have had majorities . However he has huge power now and can use it to enable MPs to stop a no deal.HYUFD said:
No, a constitutional fact.IanB2 said:
Another HY prediction destined for the bin, believe in it or not. The bin, that is. Believe in the bin.HYUFD said:
Unless an amendment is attached again to a resubmitted Withdrawal Agreement there is little the Commons can do to stop the PM pursuing No Deal anywayrottenborough said:
Falconer says this is crap. Courts would block it.williamglenn said:
If the executive does not put forward the Withdrawal Agreement again and the Commons cannot pass an amendmemt too it then there is nothing to stop the executive pursuing No Deal.
Plus of course Macron is increasingly likely to veto any further extension beyond October anyway unless for EUref2 in which case it would then be No Deal or revoke if the Withdrawal Agreement has not passed by then
Don’t forget there are also several bills that need to pass even in the event of a no deal . Immigration , trade etc . May has been too terrified to bring those back for fear of amendments .1 -
I’ve learned here that (a) people care more about sovereignty than economics and some suffering is quite acceptable; (b) that taxing the high earners will solve everything; and (c) you shouldn’t believe professionals.rcs1000 said:
In all the Tory leadership mess, no-one seems to have noticed that the US PMI followed the UK in dropping precipitously in May. New orders are now at their worst level in a decade.AndyJS said:O/T
The South African economy contracted by 3% in the first 3 months of the year.
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-06-04-shock-as-sas-first-quarter-economic-growth-shrinks-by-3-2/
PMIs in the Eurozone (excluding France and Spain), the US and the UK all now point to a recession.
It may be that we quickly bounce back, and this will turn out to have been a non-issue. But we're all so obsessed with other things, that we've missed a real darkening of the economic clouds.
Why do you think the mass of people care?0 -
Denmark
Polls close 1900 BST - turnout was 81% with one hour left!!
Live stream: https://www.dr.dk/live/nyheder/live/2872093
Official results: https://kmdvalg.dk/Main/Home/FV
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Danish_general_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Danish_general_election
Thanks!
DC1 -
Ah but they were young and dynamic when they beat Hitler and now they’re old and BrexityLuckyguy1983 said:
Essentially, like a divorcing party taking all the good records, Remain have claimed all young, fresh, dynamic people, but now that we've been reminded of some old people who were quite good and beat Hitler and stuff, they'll have those too. Best not to bring facts into the discussion.tlg86 said:
But presumably they broke for leave by a substantial margin given their dying off means there are now more remain voters alive today.dixiedean said:@RobD
Here is the article about war time generation being more Remainery.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/21/not-all-the-over-65s-are-in-favour-of-brexit-britains-wartime-generation-are-almost-as-pro-eu-as-millennials/0 -
You can just bet that "Get shit done" has been brainstormed and focus grouped by a paid adviser to see if it flies the way Bollocks to Brexit flew. No adult naturally says "get shit done" rather than things or stuff done in that sort of context.Luckyguy1983 said:
Just utterly hideous. In my professional experience, people who use corporate buzz phrases like 'get shit done' are usually hopeless at actually doing things. I'm sure he's nice to animals and I don't wish him harm, but please for the love of God get him off my screen and out of the running to be Prime flipping MINISTER.Ishmael_Z said:
Hell, yes, he's tough.williamglenn said:0 -
Macron and the veto !
We’ve been here before . The previous extension was before the EU elections and so he had to look like the tough guy.
Leavers seem to keep putting their faith in other EU heads of state to deliver their no deal. We of course remember that allegedly Salvini or Orban would veto , remind me what happened !
1 -
A Quinnipiac poll has Biden ahead of Trump in Texas, and Warren only 1% behind.
https://twitter.com/JonEasley/status/11363255202437734400 -
Nobody cares about economics when the economy is moving nicely along.matt said:
I’ve learned here that (a) people care more about sovereignty than economics and some suffering is quite acceptable; (b) that taxing the high earners will solve everything; and (c) you shouldn’t believe professionals.rcs1000 said:
In all the Tory leadership mess, no-one seems to have noticed that the US PMI followed the UK in dropping precipitously in May. New orders are now at their worst level in a decade.AndyJS said:O/T
The South African economy contracted by 3% in the first 3 months of the year.
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-06-04-shock-as-sas-first-quarter-economic-growth-shrinks-by-3-2/
PMIs in the Eurozone (excluding France and Spain), the US and the UK all now point to a recession.
It may be that we quickly bounce back, and this will turn out to have been a non-issue. But we're all so obsessed with other things, that we've missed a real darkening of the economic clouds.
Why do you think the mass of people care?
Nobody worries about sovereignty when they've just lost their job.0 -
Mark Drakeford's incumbency as First Minister hits another low, just a day after one thought the pathetic Corbyn apologist could sink no lower. Today he has presided over the Ford Motor Company announcing the closure of the Bridgend engine plant.0
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We were told by Brexiteers that companies would just carry on as usual after Brexit. It looks like Brexiteers have been proved wrong again and yet the stupid nutters insist that we go ahead with Brexit despite the pain:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48533790
Ford Bridgend closure with thousands of job losses.0 -
This is more likely as a result of Brexit than the first minister!Mexicanpete said:Mark Drakeford's incumbency as First Minister hits another low, just a day after one thought the pathetic Corbyn apologist could sink no lower. Today he has presided over the Ford Motor Company announcing the closure of the Bridgend engine plant.
0 -
Hindsight, Shmindsight.rcs1000 said:
Exactly right.paulyork64 said:
don't tell me. bletchley park didn't shorten the war by 2 years?AndyJS said:I'm reading Peter Hitchen's latest book "The Phoney Victory: The World War II Illusion". It pours cold water on most of the most cherished "myths" that people hold about the war.
Hitchens believes that - by allowing the Allies to win - Bletchley Park lengthed the war, increased the amount of human suffering and led inevitably to such abominations as the permissive society.
For a good and topical WW2 book Beevor's "D Day" is excellent. With what I now recognise as appalling naivety I vaguely thought that the Battle of Normandy, fought in Western Europe by civilised Westerners, might have been a bit lighter on atrocities than battles taking place East of Suez. The book corrects that error.0
