politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The successor to Sir Vince Cable might currently be in another
Comments
-
Former chief Leaver and second-favourite for next PM Michael Gove has already been concerned about foreign animal husbandry. As to food poisoning, didn't the American CDC put out some figures recently with higher death rates than ours?TGOHF said:
The old days of being able to scare people and bend their will seems to be coming to an end.brendan16 said:
Also be wary about taking your kids to the local swimming pool - as they will be subject to a bit of chlorine washing!
I eat chicken in the US all the time - never had food poisoning yet. If only people could see how much water the Dutch pump into chickens...
https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/0 -
Damn. They'll just have to continue being our biggest single trading partner and largest source of investment both there and here without a trade deal then. How on earth will we cope?rcs1000 said:OK. Let's talk about that US-UK trade deal for a moment.
1. It's not about the NHS
2. It's going to be about agriculture.:
(a) Simply, the Labour Party isn't going to vote for a trade deal with the mortal enemy (Trump's US), while MPs from rural seats aren't going to vote for allowing food produced under US statndards to compete with that produced under UK ones.
(b) Oh yes, and those Conservative MPs from wealthy cities? They're going to hate the fact that (i) GM crops will be allowed and (ii) the UK will be treaty bound to not even force labelling of GM products.
3. Under a crash out Brexit scenario, the US Irish lobby is going be pretty pissed. Rightly or wrongly, we will be blamed. I cannot see the House of Representatives handing Trump or the UK a victory under those circumstances.
4. I can't see the US softening its ISDS requirements - i.e. where there are two US judges for one of ours in dispute resolution. That has led to some seriously unbalanced decisions in NAFTA.
A US-UK trade deal, no matter how desirable, is a chimera. There aren't the votes for it in the UK. There aren't the votes for it in the US.2 -
Looks like a nice day out in the rain. That woman with the blonde hair does look rather angry - did she forget her brolly?isam said:0 -
0
-
-
The issue is not chlorine, but why it's needed in the US. Lower rearing standards mean higher infection rates, hence it's needed. Even more worrying is that even with chlorine-washing being completed as routine, the U.S. still has much higher rates of salmonella than ours.
Hormone-injected beef is the next issue.0 -
-
0
-
How high are the standards of rearing in Thailand? I believe the EU imports much of its chicken from there.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, the fuss about this is completely irrational. In fact the best policy would be to have EU standards of rearing AND the US standard of washing the carcasses to reduce salmonella and other pathogens. But sadly, rationality doesn't apply.brendan16 said:
Are chlorinated washed salads and vegetables ok - it keeps them looking so fresh at Tesco, Waitrose and Sainsburys.Richard_Nabavi said:Talking of US trade deals, or lack thereof:
https://twitter.com/snlester/status/1135867031671246848
Also be wary about taking your kids to the local swimming pool - for a bit of chlorine washing!0 -
I went and yes the constant drizzle did rather spoil the experience.brendan16 said:
Looks like a nice day out in the rain. That woman with the blonde hair does look rather angry - did she forget her brolly?
Couldn't get near enough to hear the speeches properly either. Was straining to pick up much of what Jeremy was saying, for example.
How did he come over on the telly?0 -
That was a pretty extraordinary interview. A Tory wanting cross subsidy of University fees by high earners. And more Inheritance tax to top it up. And more taxes on business to top it up some more. And use those top ups to fund apprenticeships to boot. I have rarely heard a Tory quite so keen on tax. You honestly felt that she had already left the party, at least mentally.Tabman said:
And, judging by her interview this morning, so should Justine GreeningSean_F said:Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen should always have been in the Lib Dems.
0 -
If Tory scum deserve to be killed, what do Trump supporters deserve?oxfordsimon said:
0 -
-
Material for a sitcom, or a psychological thriller of a descent into despair?Scott_P said:0 -
This is what happens when you invite the Labour party to these things.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
In theory, for any farm in Thailand to export to the EU, it needs to obey EU, rather than Thai, food safety standards.TrèsDifficile said:
How high are the standards of rearing in Thailand? I believe the EU imports much of its chicken from there.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, the fuss about this is completely irrational. In fact the best policy would be to have EU standards of rearing AND the US standard of washing the carcasses to reduce salmonella and other pathogens. But sadly, rationality doesn't apply.brendan16 said:
Are chlorinated washed salads and vegetables ok - it keeps them looking so fresh at Tesco, Waitrose and Sainsburys.Richard_Nabavi said:Talking of US trade deals, or lack thereof:
https://twitter.com/snlester/status/1135867031671246848
Also be wary about taking your kids to the local swimming pool - for a bit of chlorine washing!
However, this has been poorly policed historically, with lots of non-compliant chicken coming in.0 -
Forced to eat Hawaiian pizzas.RobD said:
If Tory scum deserve to be killed, what do Trump supporters deserve?oxfordsimon said:0 -
Crazy shouty Marxist that he iskinabalu said:
I went and yes the constant drizzle did rather spoil the experience.brendan16 said:
Looks like a nice day out in the rain. That woman with the blonde hair does look rather angry - did she forget her brolly?
Couldn't get near enough to hear the speeches properly either. Was straining to pick up much of what Jeremy was saying, for example.
How did he come over on the telly?0 -
How the hell has Soubry become the leader of 5 ex Lab MPs ?!1
-
It is all a matter of perception. Our tax take is at an historic high, yet people still believe the Conservatives are a low-tax party. A competent opposition might make more of this.DavidL said:
That was a pretty extraordinary interview. A Tory wanting cross subsidy of University fees by high earners. And more Inheritance tax to top it up. And more taxes on business to top it up some more. And use those top ups to fund apprenticeships to boot. I have rarely heard a Tory quite so keen on tax. You honestly felt that she had already left the party, at least mentally.Tabman said:
And, judging by her interview this morning, so should Justine GreeningSean_F said:Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen should always have been in the Lib Dems.
0 -
I guess Trumps “Michael who” comments means the reported meeting with him and the president we heard about from the Gove camp is not happening now?0
-
Anna Soubry "elected" leader?
That's quite a strong word for "we're down to my name on the list"...0 -
"Non compliant chicken" - maybe *that's* what rump ChUK should call themselves?rcs1000 said:
In theory, for any farm in Thailand to export to the EU, it needs to obey EU, rather than Thai, food safety standards.TrèsDifficile said:
How high are the standards of rearing in Thailand? I believe the EU imports much of its chicken from there.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, the fuss about this is completely irrational. In fact the best policy would be to have EU standards of rearing AND the US standard of washing the carcasses to reduce salmonella and other pathogens. But sadly, rationality doesn't apply.brendan16 said:
Are chlorinated washed salads and vegetables ok - it keeps them looking so fresh at Tesco, Waitrose and Sainsburys.Richard_Nabavi said:Talking of US trade deals, or lack thereof:
https://twitter.com/snlester/status/1135867031671246848
Also be wary about taking your kids to the local swimming pool - for a bit of chlorine washing!
However, this has been poorly policed historically, with lots of non-compliant chicken coming in.0 -
Have you seen those five ex-Labour MPs?Pulpstar said:How the hell has Soubry become the leader of 5 ex Lab MPs ?!
1 -
And didn't the EU have to recently block chicken from Brazil, which had previously been the main source of poultry imports, due to unacceptable levels of salmonella?rcs1000 said:
In theory, for any farm in Thailand to export to the EU, it needs to obey EU, rather than Thai, food safety standards.TrèsDifficile said:
How high are the standards of rearing in Thailand? I believe the EU imports much of its chicken from there.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, the fuss about this is completely irrational. In fact the best policy would be to have EU standards of rearing AND the US standard of washing the carcasses to reduce salmonella and other pathogens. But sadly, rationality doesn't apply.brendan16 said:
Are chlorinated washed salads and vegetables ok - it keeps them looking so fresh at Tesco, Waitrose and Sainsburys.Richard_Nabavi said:Talking of US trade deals, or lack thereof:
https://twitter.com/snlester/status/1135867031671246848
Also be wary about taking your kids to the local swimming pool - for a bit of chlorine washing!
However, this has been poorly policed historically, with lots of non-compliant chicken coming in.0 -
Maybe but it won't be taken advantage of by a Labour Party who are still obsessed with "Tory cuts". May never seemed to find a problem that tax payers money couldn't solve. The reality is the gap in economic policy between the parties is probably as narrow as it has been for a long time. But its in both their interests to deny this.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is all a matter of perception. Our tax take is at an historic high, yet people still believe the Conservatives are a low-tax party. A competent opposition might make more of this.DavidL said:
That was a pretty extraordinary interview. A Tory wanting cross subsidy of University fees by high earners. And more Inheritance tax to top it up. And more taxes on business to top it up some more. And use those top ups to fund apprenticeships to boot. I have rarely heard a Tory quite so keen on tax. You honestly felt that she had already left the party, at least mentally.Tabman said:
And, judging by her interview this morning, so should Justine GreeningSean_F said:Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen should always have been in the Lib Dems.
0 -
0
-
Mr (I assume) Viewcode made the point upthread. At the moment medicines are obtained by the NHS at the best prices it can negotiate, although there are often significant month to month fluctuations, once the use of those medicines, if new, has been sanctioned by NICE.TGOHF said:
Well that is up to the government not a byproduct of trading.viewcode said:
. If a firm can gain control of the NHS
People want healthcare - do they cure if the cure for their disease comes from Glaxo, Roche or Astra Zeneca ?
AFAIK there are no national constraints on non-branded (generic) medicines. They can be bought from British, European, Asian or American suppliers, depending on price
However, it's only partially true to say that medicines are 'bought' by the NHS. Community pharmacies, whether Boots or (once upon at time) OldKingCole's Pharmacy buy medicines on the open market, and, when they've been dispensed, the NHS pays for them, telling Boots and OKC's Pharmacy how much they will pay. Even hospitals negotiate their own deals with suppliers, although in my day such deals might well be on a Regional level.
And the price paid varies, especially for generics.
I suspect that the fear is that any trade deal involving the NHS will require 'sweetheart' deals with American companies, and further advantage American companies, such as Boots.0 -
What's interesting from Trump re the Tory contest is his repeated support for Jeremy Hunt (along with Boris). Now obviously Hunt is Foreign Secretary, and Trump might have remembered him from that. But more likely is that his diplomatic brief identified Hunt as a likely winner, surely?0
-
Soubry will love being leader - she can talk and talk and talk
And we can all ignore, ignore, ignore0 -
Trump specialises in these quite unpleasant put-downs, but at other times genuinely forgets things, too. Either way, what might have been an unpleasant shock for Michael Gove, who must surely have thought Rupert Murdoch's presence at their last meeting symbolised his importance.0
-
In your haste to use the edgy 'man of the world' phrase 'Bitch Slapped' you have IMO misread this situation.Alanbrooke said:Poor Jezza
bitch slapped by Trump
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48515506
The meeting request was made in the almost certain knowledge it would be rejected.
The motions had to be gone through because Labour had already said Meeting Good / Banquet Bad.0 -
I can't remember all the Change UK MPs. I can't work out who has left. Umunna, Allen, Woolaston and Berger are the ones I have, but aren't there two more? Resorted to wiki to be reminded of Shuker and Smith.
It sounds like the splitters are still not joining the Lib Dems. Madness. Which is the stronger half?0 -
and baconTGOHF said:
The old days of being able to scare people and bend their will seems to be coming to an end.brendan16 said:
Also be wary about taking your kids to the local swimming pool - as they will be subject to a bit of chlorine washing!
I eat chicken in the US all the time - never had food poisoning yet. If only people could see how much water the Dutch pump into chickens...
0 -
Surely the main point is that under US law large public health providers are not allowed by law to use their purchasing power to obtain cheaper drugs. This makes Medicare and the VET programs extremely precarious and gives an enormous subsidy to US pharma, the quid pro quo of which is supposedly more research and new drugs. The NHS is not a money making operation, it is a money spending operation and Trump will look to increase the profits of US pharma even further by seeking to prevent the NHS using its dominant market position in the way it currently does.OldKingCole said:
Mr (I assume) Viewcode made the point upthread. At the moment medicines are obtained by the NHS at the best prices it can negotiate, although there are often significant month to month fluctuations, once the use of those medicines, if new, has been sanctioned by NICE.TGOHF said:
Well that is up to the government not a byproduct of trading.viewcode said:
. If a firm can gain control of the NHS
People want healthcare - do they cure if the cure for their disease comes from Glaxo, Roche or Astra Zeneca ?
AFAIK there are no national constraints on non-branded (generic) medicines. They can be bought from British, European, Asian or American suppliers, depending on price
However, it's only partially true to say that medicines are 'bought' by the NHS. Community pharmacies, whether Boots or (once upon at time) OldKingCole's Pharmacy buy medicines on the open market, and, when they've been dispensed, the NHS pays for them, telling Boots and OKC's Pharmacy how much they will pay. Even hospitals negotiate their own deals with suppliers, although in my day such deals might well be on a Regional level.
And the price paid varies, especially for generics.
I suspect that the fear is that any trade deal involving the NHS will require 'sweetheart' deals with American companies, and further advantage American companies, such as Boots.0 -
-
If one were being Machiavellian, one could suggest that Boris could have mentioned Hunt, rather than Gove, in his 20 minute call, because he thinks Jezza is an easier opponent?Tissue_Price said:What's interesting from Trump re the Tory contest is his repeated support for Jeremy Hunt (along with Boris). Now obviously Hunt is Foreign Secretary, and Trump might have remembered him from that. But more likely is that his diplomatic brief identified Hunt as a likely winner, surely?
0 -
So the NHS hasn’t been paying its fair share for international drug R&D for the past few decades ?DavidL said:
Surely the main point is that under US law large public health providers are not allowed by law to use their purchasing power to obtain cheaper drugs. This makes Medicare and the VET programs extremely precarious and gives an enormous subsidy to US pharma, the quid pro quo of which is supposedly more research and new drugs. The NHS is not a money making operation, it is a money spending operation and Trump will look to increase the profits of US pharma even further by seeking to prevent the NHS using its dominant market position in the way it currently does.OldKingCole said:
Mr (I assume) Viewcode made the point upthread. At the moment medicines are obtained by the NHS at the best prices it can negotiate, although there are often significant month to month fluctuations, once the use of those medicines, if new, has been sanctioned by NICE.TGOHF said:
Well that is up to the government not a byproduct of trading.viewcode said:
. If a firm can gain control of the NHS
People want healthcare - do they cure if the cure for their disease comes from Glaxo, Roche or Astra Zeneca ?
AFAIK there are no national constraints on non-branded (generic) medicines. They can be bought from British, European, Asian or American suppliers, depending on price
However, it's only partially true to say that medicines are 'bought' by the NHS. Community pharmacies, whether Boots or (once upon at time) OldKingCole's Pharmacy buy medicines on the open market, and, when they've been dispensed, the NHS pays for them, telling Boots and OKC's Pharmacy how much they will pay. Even hospitals negotiate their own deals with suppliers, although in my day such deals might well be on a Regional level.
And the price paid varies, especially for generics.
I suspect that the fear is that any trade deal involving the NHS will require 'sweetheart' deals with American companies, and further advantage American companies, such as Boots.
0 -
Wandsworth Conservatives think Justine Greening is about to jump.DavidL said:
That was a pretty extraordinary interview. A Tory wanting cross subsidy of University fees by high earners. And more Inheritance tax to top it up. And more taxes on business to top it up some more. And use those top ups to fund apprenticeships to boot. I have rarely heard a Tory quite so keen on tax. You honestly felt that she had already left the party, at least mentally.Tabman said:
And, judging by her interview this morning, so should Justine GreeningSean_F said:Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen should always have been in the Lib Dems.
0 -
I think that's right. At the moment the DoH effectively sets the prices for most medicines, especially generic ones, and thee's a deal of horse-trading which goes on.DavidL said:
Surely the main point is that under US law large public health providers are not allowed by law to use their purchasing power to obtain cheaper drugs. This makes Medicare and the VET programs extremely precarious and gives an enormous subsidy to US pharma, the quid pro quo of which is supposedly more research and new drugs. The NHS is not a money making operation, it is a money spending operation and Trump will look to increase the profits of US pharma even further by seeking to prevent the NHS using its dominant market position in the way it currently does.OldKingCole said:
Mr (I assume) Viewcode made the point upthread. At the moment medicines are obtained by the NHS at the best prices it can negotiate, although there are often significant month to month fluctuations, once the use of those medicines, if new, has been sanctioned by NICE.TGOHF said:
Well that is up to the government not a byproduct of trading.viewcode said:
. If a firm can gain control of the NHS
People want healthcare - do they cure if the cure for their disease comes from Glaxo, Roche or Astra Zeneca ?
AFAIK there are no national constraints on non-branded (generic) medicines. They can be bought from British, European, Asian or American suppliers, depending on price
However, it's only partially true to say that medicines are 'bought' by the NHS. Community pharmacies, whether Boots or (once upon at time) OldKingCole's Pharmacy buy medicines on the open market, and, when they've been dispensed, the NHS pays for them, telling Boots and OKC's Pharmacy how much they will pay. Even hospitals negotiate their own deals with suppliers, although in my day such deals might well be on a Regional level.
And the price paid varies, especially for generics.
I suspect that the fear is that any trade deal involving the NHS will require 'sweetheart' deals with American companies, and further advantage American companies, such as Boots.0 -
Nope. We have got our drugs on the cheap.TGOHF said:
So the NHS hasn’t been paying its fair share for international drug R&D for the past few decades ?DavidL said:
Surely the main point is that under US law large public health providers are not allowed by law to use their purchasing power to obtain cheaper drugs. This makes Medicare and the VET programs extremely precarious and gives an enormous subsidy to US pharma, the quid pro quo of which is supposedly more research and new drugs. The NHS is not a money making operation, it is a money spending operation and Trump will look to increase the profits of US pharma even further by seeking to prevent the NHS using its dominant market position in the way it currently does.OldKingCole said:
Mr (I assume) Viewcode made the point upthread. At the moment medicines are obtained by the NHS at the best prices it can negotiate, although there are often significant month to month fluctuations, once the use of those medicines, if new, has been sanctioned by NICE.TGOHF said:
Well that is up to the government not a byproduct of trading.viewcode said:
. If a firm can gain control of the NHS
People want healthcare - do they cure if the cure for their disease comes from Glaxo, Roche or Astra Zeneca ?
AFAIK there are no national constraints on non-branded (generic) medicines. They can be bought from British, European, Asian or American suppliers, depending on price
However, it's only partially true to say that medicines are 'bought' by the NHS. Community pharmacies, whether Boots or (once upon at time) OldKingCole's Pharmacy buy medicines on the open market, and, when they've been dispensed, the NHS pays for them, telling Boots and OKC's Pharmacy how much they will pay. Even hospitals negotiate their own deals with suppliers, although in my day such deals might well be on a Regional level.
And the price paid varies, especially for generics.
I suspect that the fear is that any trade deal involving the NHS will require 'sweetheart' deals with American companies, and further advantage American companies, such as Boots.0 -
That was the impression I got for sure.DavidL said:
That was a pretty extraordinary interview. A Tory wanting cross subsidy of University fees by high earners. And more Inheritance tax to top it up. And more taxes on business to top it up some more. And use those top ups to fund apprenticeships to boot. I have rarely heard a Tory quite so keen on tax. You honestly felt that she had already left the party, at least mentally.Tabman said:
And, judging by her interview this morning, so should Justine GreeningSean_F said:Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen should always have been in the Lib Dems.
0 -
Read how Trump put it.kinabalu said:
In your haste to use the edgy 'man of the world' phrase 'Bitch Slapped' you have IMO misread this situation.Alanbrooke said:Poor Jezza
bitch slapped by Trump
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48515506
The meeting request was made in the almost certain knowledge it would be rejected.
The motions had to be gone through because Labour had already said Meeting Good / Banquet Bad.0 -
Ah good news. Sounds like his voice carried fine for TV then.Big_G_NorthWales said:Crazy shouty Marxist that he is
Being there live I could hardly hear a word.0 -
-
The daft thing is, this is what the Change MPs who have gone to the Lib Dems should have done in the first place instead of setting up a new party. They would have had plenty of influence and may well have resulted in a couple more seats for the Lib Dems at the Euro elections. Unless you have a genuinely niche market that is not currently served by the existing parties, starting a new one is really not bright.0
-
Trump is about as unreptuable a source as you can get though.Alanbrooke said:
Read how Trump put it.kinabalu said:
In your haste to use the edgy 'man of the world' phrase 'Bitch Slapped' you have IMO misread this situation.Alanbrooke said:Poor Jezza
bitch slapped by Trump
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48515506
The meeting request was made in the almost certain knowledge it would be rejected.
The motions had to be gone through because Labour had already said Meeting Good / Banquet Bad.0 -
I walked through it earlier today. A lot of Free Palestine badges and Palestinian flags. Because, er.... @TheJezziah help me out here.DavidL said:
This is what happens when you invite the Labour party to these things.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
When MPs start going down the line that I haven't changed my views, its the party that's changed its time to call it a day. I'm not saying I disagree with all her points, the Augar report seems to have managed to infuriate every side of the argument at once, but there was no vestige of loyalty there.Sean_F said:
Wandsworth Conservatives think Justine Greening is about to jump.DavidL said:
That was a pretty extraordinary interview. A Tory wanting cross subsidy of University fees by high earners. And more Inheritance tax to top it up. And more taxes on business to top it up some more. And use those top ups to fund apprenticeships to boot. I have rarely heard a Tory quite so keen on tax. You honestly felt that she had already left the party, at least mentally.Tabman said:
And, judging by her interview this morning, so should Justine GreeningSean_F said:Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen should always have been in the Lib Dems.
1 -
Unlikely. I can think of lots worse. Too many people are so keen to jump on the Trunp hate bus, they lose perspective of where he sits.Paristonda said:
Trump is about as unreptuable a source as you can get though.Alanbrooke said:
Read how Trump put it.kinabalu said:
In your haste to use the edgy 'man of the world' phrase 'Bitch Slapped' you have IMO misread this situation.Alanbrooke said:Poor Jezza
bitch slapped by Trump
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48515506
The meeting request was made in the almost certain knowledge it would be rejected.
The motions had to be gone through because Labour had already said Meeting Good / Banquet Bad.0 -
Trump is notably closer to US health insurance providers, and arguably also the Pharmaceutical industry, than almost any other US big business, ever since his attempts to roll back Obama's health reforms. Around 18 months ago he hosted around 20 heads of US health insurance firms and their underlings, and posed proudly for a "boardroom"-style photo with all of them at the White House. They will be near the top of his agenda for Brexit, along with US agriculture, and driving a wedge into the EU.0
-
Why have the splitters of the splitters not just gone directly to the lib dems? Is there something to be gained in dragging it out? Lib Dems may only want to accept MPs from winnable seats, taking ones that will certainly lose next time will just suppress their overall net gains0
-
Very few. The consensus was always that they were doomed to fail.isam said:
0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/jun/03/the-truth-about-chlorinated-chicken-review-an-instant-appetite-ruiner
"US rates of campylobacter infection are 10 times higher than in the UK. The US records hundreds of salmonella deaths a year; the UK has in recent years recorded none."0 -
She can wandle off down the Wandle.0
-
South Cambs and Totnes are very winnable for the Lib Dems.Paristonda said:Why have the splitters of the splitters not just gone directly to the lib dems? Is there something to be gained in dragging it out? Lib Dems may only want to accept MPs from winnable seats, taking ones that will certainly lose next time will just suppress their overall net gains
0 -
There are quite a number of Tory MPs who ought to be Lib Dems unfortunately.1
-
I must be feeling particularly contrary today but maybe because his policies are so pro Israel, the acceptance of new settlements on occupied land and the transfer of the embassy to Jerusalem? The Palestinians have a lot more to complain about so far as Trump is concerned than we do. A lot more.TOPPING said:
I walked through it earlier today. A lot of Free Palestine badges and Palestinian flags. Because, er.... @TheJezziah help me out here.DavidL said:
This is what happens when you invite the Labour party to these things.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
AlastairMeeks said:
0 -
Mr. Meeks, to be fair, there was far more potential than was realised. They had a fair wind up until (and including) the trio of Conservative defections.
But since then they've been dramatically outperformed by the Lib Dems and BP.0 -
Yup - and it's a mixture of EU standards and pre-EU British methods that's at the root of that, but the EU has definitely played a fair role.CatMan said:https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/jun/03/the-truth-about-chlorinated-chicken-review-an-instant-appetite-ruiner
"US rates of campylobacter infection are 10 times higher than in the UK. The US records hundreds of salmonella deaths a year; the UK has in recent years recorded none."0 -
Raab wonders in from 30 to 22..0
-
I like your thinking.Tissue_Price said:What's interesting from Trump re the Tory contest is his repeated support for Jeremy Hunt (along with Boris). Now obviously Hunt is Foreign Secretary, and Trump might have remembered him from that. But more likely is that his diplomatic brief identified Hunt as a likely winner, surely?
0 -
#20 was traded on Justine Greening at 7.0 for next Tory leader at one point.0
-
I wrote this at the time and I think I was more charitable to them than most:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Meeks, to be fair, there was far more potential than was realised. They had a fair wind up until (and including) the trio of Conservative defections.
But since then they've been dramatically outperformed by the Lib Dems and BP.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/02/21/the-prospects-for-the-independent-group/
0 -
The Tory majority? Even with DUP support this government is on life support. Two or three more defectors on the back of the leadership contest and the new PM will only be in office long enough to call an election.RobD said:
Unfortunate for who?Awb683 said:There are quite a number of Tory MPs who ought to be Lib Dems unfortunately.
0 -
So, what you’re saying is, that No Deal is better than a Bad Deal?rcs1000 said:OK. Let's talk about that US-UK trade deal for a moment.
1. It's not about the NHS
2. It's going to be about agriculture.:
(a) Simply, the Labour Party isn't going to vote for a trade deal with the mortal enemy (Trump's US), while MPs from rural seats aren't going to vote for allowing food produced under US statndards to compete with that produced under UK ones.
(b) Oh yes, and those Conservative MPs from wealthy cities? They're going to hate the fact that (i) GM crops will be allowed and (ii) the UK will be treaty bound to not even force labelling of GM products.
3. Under a crash out Brexit scenario, the US Irish lobby is going be pretty pissed. Rightly or wrongly, we will be blamed. I cannot see the House of Representatives handing Trump or the UK a victory under those circumstances.
4. I can't see the US softening its ISDS requirements - i.e. where there are two US judges for one of ours in dispute resolution. That has led to some seriously unbalanced decisions in NAFTA.
A US-UK trade deal, no matter how desirable, is a chimera. There aren't the votes for it in the UK. There aren't the votes for it in the US.
Got it.0 -
Splitters!Scott_P said:0 -
Here's the thing. The swashbuckling Captain Onedin Brexiteers all claim to be very keen on trade deals around the world in the abstract. So keen are they, they're tearing up the biggest and deepest trade deal that Britain has in order to get others. But when it comes to the concrete, they shun the necessary compromises.Casino_Royale said:
So, what you’re saying is, that No Deal is better than a Bad Deal?rcs1000 said:OK. Let's talk about that US-UK trade deal for a moment.
1. It's not about the NHS
2. It's going to be about agriculture.:
(a) Simply, the Labour Party isn't going to vote for a trade deal with the mortal enemy (Trump's US), while MPs from rural seats aren't going to vote for allowing food produced under US statndards to compete with that produced under UK ones.
(b) Oh yes, and those Conservative MPs from wealthy cities? They're going to hate the fact that (i) GM crops will be allowed and (ii) the UK will be treaty bound to not even force labelling of GM products.
3. Under a crash out Brexit scenario, the US Irish lobby is going be pretty pissed. Rightly or wrongly, we will be blamed. I cannot see the House of Representatives handing Trump or the UK a victory under those circumstances.
4. I can't see the US softening its ISDS requirements - i.e. where there are two US judges for one of ours in dispute resolution. That has led to some seriously unbalanced decisions in NAFTA.
A US-UK trade deal, no matter how desirable, is a chimera. There aren't the votes for it in the UK. There aren't the votes for it in the US.
Got it.
Just what is it that Leavers are now trying to achieve?
0 -
She’s been on a journey for some time, I think.Sean_F said:
Wandsworth Conservatives think Justine Greening is about to jump.DavidL said:
That was a pretty extraordinary interview. A Tory wanting cross subsidy of University fees by high earners. And more Inheritance tax to top it up. And more taxes on business to top it up some more. And use those top ups to fund apprenticeships to boot. I have rarely heard a Tory quite so keen on tax. You honestly felt that she had already left the party, at least mentally.Tabman said:
And, judging by her interview this morning, so should Justine GreeningSean_F said:Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen should always have been in the Lib Dems.
Wouldn’t surprise me if she kept going and ended up in the Labour Party.
Maybe that’s what coming out the other side of a relationship with Mark Clarke can do to you.0 -
They have been even more dramatically outperformed by Tom Watson. Many may not thank him for it, but the Deputy Labour Leader may well have kept Labour together. Another 30 or 40 defections and things would look very, very different.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Meeks, to be fair, there was far more potential than was realised. They had a fair wind up until (and including) the trio of Conservative defections.
But since then they've been dramatically outperformed by the Lib Dems and BP.0 -
“UK Change: The Group of Independents”Casino_Royale said:
Splitters!Scott_P said:0 -
Has Andrea Leadsom got any sort of launch video out or campaign going at all?
As far as I can tell she’s just gone on Marr and LBC radio and done ten tweets.0 -
Meanwhile on planet irrelevant:
"Mr Cable told BBC News: "I declined the invitation to go to the palace, and I certainly haven't asked for a meeting and he was not after one with me.
"That doesn't mean I don't believe in talking to important people."0 -
Yes. Spot on.Richard_Tyndall said:The daft thing is, this is what the Change MPs who have gone to the Lib Dems should have done in the first place instead of setting up a new party. They would have had plenty of influence and may well have resulted in a couple more seats for the Lib Dems at the Euro elections. Unless you have a genuinely niche market that is not currently served by the existing parties, starting a new one is really not bright.
I don't think we've seen the end of the story here yet. I'm expecting Allen and Wollaston, at least, to take the Lib Dem whip at some point before the next election. Umunna will probably end up running some incredibly tedious think-tank.0 -
A few more than that and the new Conservative leader might not get to be Prime Minister.DavidL said:
The Tory majority? Even with DUP support this government is on life support. Two or three more defectors on the back of the leadership contest and the new PM will only be in office long enough to call an election.RobD said:
Unfortunate for who?Awb683 said:There are quite a number of Tory MPs who ought to be Lib Dems unfortunately.
0 -
Six CUK leave, Anna is now the leader.0
-
-
I’m not that interested in a comprehensive FTA with the USA - I might be interested in micro deals, like liberalising passport control, and other services equivalencies - and I was happy with May’s Deal with the EU. I’d like a closer strategic relationship with India too but that too might not be possible.AlastairMeeks said:
Here's the thing. The swashbuckling Captain Onedin Brexiteers all claim to be very keen on trade deals around the world in the abstract. So keen are they, they're tearing up the biggest and deepest trade deal that Britain has in order to get others. But when it comes to the concrete, they shun the necessary compromises.Casino_Royale said:
So, what you’re saying is, that No Deal is better than a Bad Deal?rcs1000 said:OK. Let's talk about that US-UK trade deal for a moment.
1. It's not about the NHS
2. It's going to be about agriculture.:
(a) Simply, the Labour Party isn't going to vote for a trade deal with the mortal enemy (Trump's US), while MPs from rural seats aren't going to vote for allowing food produced under US statndards to compete with that produced under UK ones.
(b) Oh yes, and those Conservative MPs from wealthy cities? They're going to hate the fact that (i) GM crops will be allowed and (ii) the UK will be treaty bound to not even force labelling of GM products.
3. Under a crash out Brexit scenario, the US Irish lobby is going be pretty pissed. Rightly or wrongly, we will be blamed. I cannot see the House of Representatives handing Trump or the UK a victory under those circumstances.
4. I can't see the US softening its ISDS requirements - i.e. where there are two US judges for one of ours in dispute resolution. That has led to some seriously unbalanced decisions in NAFTA.
A US-UK trade deal, no matter how desirable, is a chimera. There aren't the votes for it in the UK. There aren't the votes for it in the US.
Got it.
Just what is it that Leavers are now trying to achieve?
Compromises aren’t a problem for me.0 -
She's not a serious candidate - just after a cabinet position.Casino_Royale said:Has Andrea Leadsom got any sort of launch video out or campaign going at all?
As far as I can tell she’s just gone on Marr and LBC radio and done ten tweets.0 -
Incidentally, even the rump Change UK sounds much more amenable to co-operation with the Lib Dems than Chris Leslie, at least, had previously been thought to be: "[Change UK has] called for a cross-party summit of the UK’s smaller political parties to discuss the democratic crisis facing the country, and the need to break the cartel of the bigger established parties."0
-
I have. He expressed himself as one would expect.Alanbrooke said:Read how Trump put it.
He probably calculated that it would be lapped up by his fans as him 'bitch slapping' the poor hapless Labour leader.
He's not a stupid guy, Trump. Far from it.0 -
If all these CHUKkers join the Lib Dems they are gonna need a bigger Taxi!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94bdMSCdw20
"Listenin' late last night
I heard the screen door slam
And a big yellow taxi
Took my girl away
Now, don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Til its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot"0 -
Go Nigel!!!!!!!!Scott_P said: 0 -
The NHS has negotiated with drug providers, and got them competing against each other. It has done what US private hospitals and health groups do.TGOHF said:
So the NHS hasn’t been paying its fair share for international drug R&D for the past few decades ?DavidL said:
Surely the main point is that under US law large public health providers are not allowed by law to use their purchasing power to obtain cheaper drugs. This makes Medicare and the VET programs extremely precarious and gives an enormous subsidy to US pharma, the quid pro quo of which is supposedly more research and new drugs. The NHS is not a money making operation, it is a money spending operation and Trump will look to increase the profits of US pharma even further by seeking to prevent the NHS using its dominant market position in the way it currently does.OldKingCole said:
Mr (I assume) Viewcode made the point upthread. At the moment medicines are obtained by the NHS at the best prices it can negotiate, although there are often significant month to month fluctuations, once the use of those medicines, if new, has been sanctioned by NICE.TGOHF said:
Well that is up to the government not a byproduct of trading.viewcode said:
. If a firm can gain control of the NHS
People want healthcare - do they cure if the cure for their disease comes from Glaxo, Roche or Astra Zeneca ?
AFAIK there are no national constraints on non-branded (generic) medicines. They can be bought from British, European, Asian or American suppliers, depending on price
However, it's only partially true to say that medicines are 'bought' by the NHS. Community pharmacies, whether Boots or (once upon at time) OldKingCole's Pharmacy buy medicines on the open market, and, when they've been dispensed, the NHS pays for them, telling Boots and OKC's Pharmacy how much they will pay. Even hospitals negotiate their own deals with suppliers, although in my day such deals might well be on a Regional level.
And the price paid varies, especially for generics.
I suspect that the fear is that any trade deal involving the NHS will require 'sweetheart' deals with American companies, and further advantage American companies, such as Boots.
Because of lobbying pressure from US pharmaceutical compaies Medicare and Medicaid are not allowed to negotiate with Pfizer, Glaxo, etc. The result is that they pay 2-3x the world market price for most drugs.
However, it is worth remembering that most drugs in the US are not bought by Medicare/Medicaid but by patients directly. If you are prescribed a drug, it's your responsibility to pay for it, and it may (or may not) be subsidised by your healthcare provider.0 -
Mr. Mark, indeed. And that might see Corbyn become PM.0
-
Someone has invested the best part of half a million shoring up her position as third favourite on Betfair.TGOHF said:
She's not a serious candidate - just after a cabinet position.Casino_Royale said:Has Andrea Leadsom got any sort of launch video out or campaign going at all?
As far as I can tell she’s just gone on Marr and LBC radio and done ten tweets.0 -
The alt-centre?0
-
Wouldn't it be ironic if they did this at the time FPTP finally works in their favour?El_Capitano said:Incidentally, even the rump Change UK sounds much more amenable to co-operation with the Lib Dems than Chris Leslie, at least, had previously been thought to be: "[Change UK has] called for a cross-party summit of the UK’s smaller political parties to discuss the democratic crisis facing the country, and the need to break the cartel of the bigger established parties."
0 -
Yes I saw you.TOPPING said:
I walked through it earlier today. A lot of Free Palestine badges and Palestinian flags. Because, er.... @TheJezziah help me out here.
Why were you just in shorts and singlet on a day like today?0 -
I'm glad that someone wrote their names down; was having trouble remembering.
Anyhoo, who's going to write the new song?
Souby-doobie-do ... where are you?
You've got some work to do now
Souby-doobie-do ... where are you?
They need some help from you now
Come on Souby-Doo - I see you
Pretending you've got a party
But you're not fooling me, cos I can see
You don't sound very hearty
ie Obviously not me.
0 -
Why else would they have left?OblitusSumMe said:I can't remember all the Change UK MPs. I can't work out who has left. Umunna, Allen, Woolaston and Berger are the ones I have, but aren't there two more? Resorted to wiki to be reminded of Shuker and Smith.
It sounds like the splitters are still not joining the Lib Dems. Madness. Which is the stronger half?
These things take a little time to organise. Aside from anything else the LibDems will want to interview them before taking them in. And it's an opportunity worth leaving for the new leader to enjoy. And the MPs will want to talk about fighting their seats, which might be tricky where there's an established LD PPC.
0
